Is this game an unabashed masterpiece or are there glaring flaws?

>>388535934
Bed of Chaos is its biggest flaw.

>>388536076
no,the biggest flaw is the sequel

>>388535934
>Is this game an unabashed masterpiece
It could have been if it was finished

>>388535934
yes, the entire second half

Massive glaring flaws.

Dark souls is the most charming of the dark souls games though 3 is technically the best made.

Both DeS and BB are better than the entirety of the dark souls series as far as product quality is concerned ( though DeS is quite dated in a lot of ways which can be detracting)

Dark souls gets a free pass as "best in the series" despite its glaring flaws largely due to

1. It was many players first game due to being the first multiplat in the series

2. It was the first to use an open world design, which was a popular design style in the early-mid 2000's

>>388535934
World interconnectivity is the only thing it has going for it but it ditches it once you ring the second bell

>>388536448
>game is only good because nostalgia
stop being a faggot

>>388536243
Dark Souls 2 gets better the more you put into your adaptability.

>>388536695
git fucking gud

>>388536335
This. The second half is shit.

>>388536603
It took me so long to figure this out. My first playthrough was infuriatingly shit until about half way when someone mentioned it to me. I stuck like 10 points into ADP and suddenly the graphics weren't shit and the level design started getting a lot better. 5 more points and out of nowhere there was this whole new section linking up Earthen Peak and Iron Keep in a way that actually made sense.

>>388537308
At 99 adaptability it actually becomes Bloodborne.

>>388536695
>not rolling
casul spotted

>>388535934
I liked this and its sequel, will I like Demon's Souls?

Both

>>388535934
Post Anor Londo kind of sucks.

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>>388537683
>the four hard dungeons suck

git gud

Every souls game has glaring flaws. You just have to play them long enough. It's totally up to preference whether you push through them or not though.

>>388536448
I think you are on to something.
I appreciate the opportunity to do some sequence breaking, but at the end of the day I want to play the other games more. Builds are incredibly unbalanced in das. The bosses were really neat and held my attention for a long time, I still think they are better than two's, but they aren't really good. I really don't think we needed to kill fatass three times for an example. The world is gorgeous and connects with itself in interesting ways, but it is tiny. Covenants are a slog to rank up with. The grimdark style is overused everywhere. I am going to try scholar and see if I can enjoy it, but I think it is fair to say that three is at least a better made game

>>388536695
Best part is how the left archer can shoot you through the wall while you're on the walkway to the small tower since it doesn't have any collision detection.

>>388537843
Lost Izalith, Crystal Cave and Demon Ruins are the worst areas from the entire series, why the actual fuck would you defend any one of those with 'git gud'?

>>388537843
>>the four unfinished/semi-finished dungeons suck
ftfy

>>388538110
Crystal cave is easily the best area of the game. Can't just sprint through it like a retard like you do the rest of the game.

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>>388538110
>>388538152
>wahhhhhh they're hard dungeons so I need to insult their design and integrity.
git gud

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>ds1: kill four lords and then the king
>ds2: kill reincarnations of four lords and then the queen
>ds3: kill four lords and then the reincarnation of the king

Anyone defending Lost Izalith is a false flagging shitposter that can be ignored.

Even the most stalwart of Soulsfans despise those two areas and believe they're undefendable since the devs themselves have admitted they were unfinished.

>>388538361
except that you can,literally 2 invisible straight bridges,if you focus on the other end silhouette you will easily memorise their locations and allways sprint in everytime

>>388538361
exactly. You have to stop for 5 seconds and notice the invisible platform, then sprint across it like a retard and immediately reach the boss. Really activates my almonds.

>>388538725
It would be amazing if from remastered the game and actually finishes those areas.

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Can't marry best girl.

>>388536695
this part is so fucking dumb

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>>388536695

>>388538110
You are a fucking retard if you genuinely think those levels are worse than shit like the frigid outskirts and other shitty areas from DaS 2 DLC.

>>388537559
why there are iframes in this game? seriously why roll make you invincible,what the fuck,roll should be fast escape,not "sustain all damage"

>>388536695
Run to the pillar, go right, time 3 rolls, kick the archer in the balls, open the door, get on the floor, everybody walks the dinosaur, then talk to Solaire. Wow, so hard.
I bet you think the Shrine of Amana is a bad level too.

>>388539164
to make the shockwaves less noticable
didn't really work too well desu

>>388539164
Rolling means avoiding damage but of course they can't make an animation for every single way your character could dodge an attack so instead they give you only 1 animation and i-frames. Many action games do it.

>>388539178
>Shrine of Amana

>homing magic spammers
>insta-kill deep water
>spoopy jumpers hiding in the water
>a crappy toad boss playing peek-a-boo

it's only plus is that it looks cool

>>388536335
bruh the second half of Bloodborne is no better, it becomes pretty much a level -> loading screen -> level progression with shit bosses, and mostly shit areas.

Byrgenwerth (trash) -> Rom (trash) -> loading screen -> Yahrghul (trash) -> One Reborn (trash) -> loading screen -> College Building (trash) -> loading screen -> Nightmare of Mensis (god-tier) -> Micolash (trash) ->Mergo's Nurse (mediocre considering she's penultimate boss) -> loading screen -> Hunter's Dream

compared to this shit the only areas in DkS1's second half are Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith along with their bosses, the Catacombs and Tomb of the Giants as well as New Londo Ruins are god-tier, Duke's Archives and Crystal Cave are mediocre. the only reason people keep parroting this meme is because the first half of the game alone legit shits on the other games in their entirety, so the standard was set super high.

>>388539764
yes both are shit thank you

>>388538768
To be fair though it comes right after Duke's. Do you really want to go through two full levels for one boss? Yeah Crystal Cave doesn't really stand on it's own as a level, but I rank it pretty high for aesthetic and atmosphere.

>>388539164
>all the bad dark souls players are ESL
Figures.

>>388539539
Just roll bro, or parry the attacks with a shield if you hate adaptability. On that note shields that can parry magic are a cool concept.
You died if you fell into a pit in DaS too.
They literally have glowing bugs that show you where they are, unless the singing stops, then you are in trouble.
Fuck the frog, looks cool but anything with grab attacks can go fuck itself.

>>388539881
>thinking temporary invincibility is a dumb mechanic means you're bad

>people actually had trouble with bed of chaos

>>388535934
>two days ago
>beat gwyn
>link the fire
>my gpu fries itself instantly
I don't know but it's pretty realistic, gotta give them that

>>388540386
>first playtrough
>decide to play as mage by chance
>get 1 hit by boc even when blocking with heaviest armor at full health and stamina
>no roll skill cuz never needed
>bonfire miles away
it was frustrating

>>388540663
You didn't find the secret bonfire near the dragon butts?

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>>388538838
you can at least post her next time

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>>388540930
How about both?

>>388540805
eventually i did, was trying to hit all walls when tired of dying, trying to find some hidden item or whatever,i was getting paranoid by that point

>>388537308
I appreciated your post, anon

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Admit it, you teared up.

>>388540663
Use a shield, retard, I just beat it at SL1

>>388540996

I still can't tell if people use Quelaan as her name because I coined it or it's the most obvious continuation of Quelaag and Quelana and everyone else came up with it too

>>388541119
waaaah I killed some fag dog that attacked me

So the only DS game I've played so far is the second one (Scholar of the First Sin) and I absolutely love it. It's one of the best games I ever played for sure and I don't get the hate it gets from people.

Is it because 1 and 3 are even better?

>>388541267
He was just protecting his owner's grave.

>>388535934
yeah, the entire later half of the game after anor londo.

>>388541119
Played this dozens of times and never knew it can fall over like that.

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>>388541686
I think they should've made it trigger at a higher health threshold because it's a nice detail and really subverts your expectations since bosses usually go into some sort of super second phase but Sif just limps around.

>>388538361
undead burg is without a doubt the best thing miyazaki ever designed

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>>388541953
>Not Painted World

>>388535934
Ornstein's spear goes through walls.

>>388538054
It doesnt go through the wall. It bends around it because tracking. Annoying at times, and seems somewhat unpredictable if it will do it or not.

>>388540592
My old gpu died when I made the magical transition from Earthen Peak to Iron Keep.

>>388541119
Happy to kill doggo everytime.

>>388536695
Learn to put the shield down and roll.

>>388542084
>i skipped painted world because I only ever cleared out that area when I was progressing to O&S and never wanted to go back

>>388535934
how much time passed between the games in universe anyway? has it been hundreds or thousands of years between the chosen undead's pilgrimage and the ashen one's hitman task?

>pre-Anor Londo Dark Souls is perfect in every concievable way

I hate this meme. Depths and Sen's Fortress are shit. I actually liked Duke's Archives better than both.

>>388541953
>>388542084
i really think darkroot garden and basin take the cake. really feels like you're treading a magical forest that doesn't want you there.

>>388535934
the flaws are what makes this game """"""good"""""

just because you memorized every bullshit encounter after dying 100 times to it doesnt mean you're good

especially if you use a shield

>>388535934
It has huge flaws, past O&S it becomes a mess, TotG, LI, TDI and NLR are all horrible areas

>>388542270
Painted World takes the same concept of Undead Burg where it's built around a single bonfire but adds a lot more verticality to the level and the way each area loops back on itself is just amazing.

Unironically the best 3D level design I've ever seen, but Undead Burg isn't far off. Really makes me wonder what the hell happened in DaS III since there isn't a single thing that comes close to either one.

>>388541953
>>388542084
>Not Lothric's Castle
>Not Archdragon Peak
>Not Undead Settlement
remove yourselves from existence

>>388542342
You have shit taste

>>388541813
the only boss with a second phase in the game was super ornstein/smough wasn't it?

>using a shield means you're bad
meanwhile rolling literally makes you invincible

>>388542498
Shitting on DS3 aside, I kind of liked their Cathedral of Deep level design.

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>>388542520
>Dark Souls 3 level design
>Good

>>388542592

You can defend an entire area of nothing but awful rat enemies with boring aesthetics and a mindless damage sponge for a boss

I liked Lost Izalith and Bed of Chaos was fun.

>>388543023
Depths is an optional area, nothing post Anor Londo is optional.

Of course there are flaws. There are huge flaws, but it's still a masterpiece.

>>388542342
>and Sen's Fortress are shit
Only that one specific section where you have to walk the plank with a lizard wizard behind you, one you can't at all attack or disarm before you're already on the plank

Other than that, I had a blast in Sen's fortress.

>>388543023
In my mind, the area was designed to make you belive that you've hit rock bottom; fucking opressive darkness, rats, the bigass boss (biggest by far at this time in the game), claustrophobic corridors and enemies that can instakill you with curses. It fucking sucks .Then you get to Blighttown

>>388542886

>dark souls 2 looks like it was made in mspaint
>dark souls 3 literally only has 1 color

this sucks

>>388543319
DS3's texture work was so beautiful and cohesive that I'll allow it

>>388542342
I think Depths is fine, albeit a sewer level is a kind of lame theme, but Sen's Fortress type of trap house feels really out of place t b h.

>>388543091
That has nothing to do with my opinion that Duke's was better.

>>388536335
The dukes archives is ok

>>388543361
They're all Bloodborne's textures

>>388543558
But it doesn't make sense to complain about Depths when it's optional, you go there on your volition. Also the worst part about the Depths is getting cursed by the Basilisks and having to go back to the Parish.

>>388543792
I wasn't complaining. I was defending why I thought Depths wasn't that good, and because you acted like I was retarded for saying Duke's was better

>>388543745
I've no PS4 so I'll again allow it

>>388541490
2 has it's good points but 3 is no fun to me and 1 is one of only 6 games I've got 100% in it's really good

>>388542642
Manus, Gargoyles, Moonlight Butterfly, and Sif all have some form of a "second phase".
I guess Bed of Chaos does as well.

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>>388544220
>you acted like I was retarded for saying Duke's was better
That wasn't me, Archives is the only redeemable apart about post Anor Londo.

>>388541119
Sif drops humanity when you kill him. That means he's killed a human before, therefore he deserved to die.

>>388544462
>Moonlight Butterfly
Worst DaS boss?

>>388542328
At lest a thousand in between 1 and 2 and I few thousand between 2 and 3

>>388544616
That would be Demon Firesage

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*blocks your path*

>>388542886
The only reason this happened is because they decided to put a bonfire at the end of most boss fights, and at the beginning of every new area. Pretty silly, and could have been avoided.

The introduction to the game makes you feel so out of touch with the opening cinematic.

I had no idea I was about to encounter those dudes in the intro video until I was already 40+ hours into the game and had the Lordvessel.

But, it does make fighting them so god damn rewarding, which is the biggest feat of the game anyway.

>>388544889
Similar thing happened in BB at Forbidden Woods where you fight Shadow of Yharnam and then you go three seconds ahead and there's another one at Byrgenwerth.

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>>388544616
>>388544786
it's like you've never played to Lost Izalith

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>>388539764
>the Catacombs and Tomb of the Giants as well as New Londo Ruins are god-tier

>>388545103
That's a given, anon. Everyone knows BoC is the worst, so there's really no point mentioning it.

>>388544516
>That wasn't me

It's not my fault you immediately assumed the position of the last person I was talking to and never clarified you were someone else.

Why do you newfags always forget to say 'not that anon' when you walk into other people's shit?

Everything after Anal Land feels rushed. Also, the fucking bloom in Izalith.

>>388545192
Ah of course, by worst boss you didn't actually mean worst boss, what was I thinking

>why is the inside of this really dark cave that's illuminated by a lake of lava bright?

>>388545430
Worst boss that's still a fight, Bed of Chaos isn't a fight. It's a luck simulator.

>>388544846
*unsheaths divine katana*

>>388535934
Every single game has flaws. A 10/10 masterpiece still has flaws.

Dark Souls is a 10/10 masterpiece.

>>388535934
it's a masterpiece with glaring flaws

it would be a total masterpiece if it was finished. almost everything after (and including) the demon city is shit, save a few areas like duke's archives. it really stinks that they didn't have time to finish.

>>388545735
Anyone who has played past Ornstein and Smough cannot reasonably give this game a 10/10.

>>388536695

his shield wasn't even facing the arrow.
this is definitely an annoying encounter but it's not unfair.

>>388535934

>limited replayability
>lots of easy and/or unimaginative bosses
>second half is boring

>>388535934
I love the game and it's easily my favorite in the entire series but it has massive flaws. The second half of the game is nowhere near the quality of the first half, which is luckily less terrible now because now you can break up the bad with the DLC content. Some enemies are poorly designed, the Hydras being a standout example. Rolling being restricted to the cardinal directions feels bad after playing the later games. Dark 1 has my favorite version of poise but it is incredibly overpowered and easy to game to have good rolls and decent poise. The PC port is a giant piece of trash unless you use a fan made fix, and the console versions had really bad framerate drops in certain areas. Some people would argue the slower movement speed and weapon swings are a detriment, I disagree and prefer it that way but that is entirely subjective. The console versions, specifically the 360 version would not allow online interactions while in a party, which was annoying when you just wanted to shoot the shit with your friends while you all played something different.

Can someone explain to me why the second half of the game is bad?

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>>388539764
>It's ok for Dark Souls to have a bad second half because Bloodborne has a bad second half

>>388542182
>It doesnt go through the wall. It bends around it because tracking. Annoying at times, and seems somewhat unpredictable if it will do it or not.

I meant the walkway to the tower with the winged demons.
He shoots straight through the wall there.

>>388545971
>>388545969
>>388545828
Where did this "second half is bad" meme come from?

People who never beat O&S? People who got stuck on O&S and didn't play the second half til later?

>>388545697
Nito is weak to fire though.

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>>388546157
A better question would be, where did the 'second half is good' meme come from?

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>>388546079
see
>>388537843

>>388546157
The level design and bosses have a massive drop in quality after Anor Londo.

>>388546079
Its a meme
The truth is there are plenty of bad levels in the first half as well

>>388546382
how so?

>>388546157
This is my personal opinion of course but the only post anor londo area I liked was the Tomb of the Giants. I don't really like Duke's Archive because it's mostly just two very tall rooms that look nearly identical to each other.Crystal Caves is a non area, once you learn of the gimmick each other run through it is just running straight through it. Lost Izalith was a nightmare when it was the dragon ass disco and because of that it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, also I dislike the lava mechanics immensely. Second half is full of nonthreatening enemies and the worst boss in the entire franchise. It does have a cool encounter if you managed to keep up with Onion man, otherwise it's relatively bland at best, incredibly annoying at worst.

>>388546449
The first half is so good because how genius the level design is.

Want to fight Pinwheel first? Nothing stopping you.
Want to fight Quelaag first? Nothing stopping you.
The way that Burg, Firelink, Parish and Darkroot are all connected.
Sen's Fortress conveniently placed next to the bonfire with the blacksmith.

Everything about the first half just works in a way no other 3D world has been able to do and there is nothing of this after Anor Londo and Lost Izalith is offensively bad.

>>388539968
>rolling in water.

That's one easy way to get yourself killed.

>>388536335
Only Lost Izalith is really bad.

>>388536598
It's not streamlined to shit and isn't afraid to have rough corners. It also has superior flow when compared to later titles that let you or force you to warp to a hub for everything at any time from any of the many bonfires.

>>388539539
>homing magic spammers
That force you to roll if you can't take the hit
>insta-kill deep water
That you can avoid with a light source like a torch which goes out when you roll in water which is pretty neat when combined with the homing magic
>spoopy jumpers hiding in the water
Which only pop up when the singing stops and the fireflies hovering over them go away
>a crappy toad boss playing peek-a-boo
Which is atmospheric as shit because you can hear it basically throughout the whole level

Shrine of Amana is great for letting the torch shine.

>>388541490
It's because the game is unfinished and doesn't live up to the first game or its own prerelease marketing.
It gets a lot of hate because of that and because it's easy to bait people with extreme viewpoints.
I would say that DaS1 is better but it's also just different so it might be off-putting if you don't want to get used to it.

>>388546157
>First half of the game:
>Hurr durr I'm such a retard, I followed a guide to have OP equipment and farmed 1000000 souls to have 99 vit and I satrted with the master key in orer to skip blight town, I don't know why people say this game is hard, casuls am I rite? lol
>Second half of the game
>Darkness? Invisible path? Actually listening what NPCs say to know how to traverse New Londo and survive in The Abyss? Obstacles that aren't though enemies I can brute force through?
What the f*ck? I'm telling le reddits about this, downboats will be had!

>>388546716
Thats how I do it every single time and it works, git gud.

>>388546835
You don't need the Master Key to skip Blighttown, way to out yourself as a retard.

>>388547146
But you do, unless you know how to speedrun the game.

Does anyone else think that the Bed of Chaos is not the worst boss in the game? Sure, it can be annoying how luck-based it is, but at least it is unique bossfight.

>>388547378
>Go to Darkroot Basin
>Take elevator to Valley of Drakes
>Run to Blighttown
Never speed ran a game in my life but I do that all the time and it does not require the Master Key at any point.

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>>388547382
I don't think having a 'worst' or a 'best' boss means anything. They were all good in my opinion, and just because one has to be good, and another has to be bad for any sort of ranking to mean anything doesn't take anything away from the overall quality of each boss in their own.

I liked all bosses, and think they all belonged and added something unique to the game.

>>388543792
Getting cursed by the Basilisks is a curve-ball but it's not bad, provided your first instinct is to leave the depths and regroup since you'll be walking past the merchant who has purging stones and be encouraged to explore New Londo for a cure otherwise.
If you push on it's more luck based since you will not only have to make it through the depths, but also descend into Blight Town, push into an area behind several invisible walls off to the side, descend to Ash Lake and farm enemies that you don't even know will drop purging stones.
Smart player who browses all NPC shops likely already has purging stones.

>>388544889
Undead Settlement is worse.
>Vordt's Bonfire
>Get carried down by Demons
>Another bonfire
>Some undead fucker opens a gate and dogs come pouring out
>There's another bonfire right behind him
And there's more where that came from.

>>388546531
Rushed as fuck, with none of the cleverness and interconnectivity. DA is copypasted, level straight up breaks lore, and the game forces death unless you use the skip. CC is a straight line and annoying to go through. Seath is just terrible and can barely hurt you. Tomb of the giants is too linear and horizontal, and that one area with the ember is almost impossible to get with a melee build. Nito is again terrible and some of his attacks are bugged like his scream.
DR and LI need no explanation, epsecially if you played it pre-patched. NL is okay since it has some verticality but the four kings have way too much HP on NG+ and beyond. Also the shortcut is fucking pointless since you can warp.

>>388535934

The last third of the game is rushed as hell, especially lost izalith. Is it still a masterpiece? For me, yes.

Painted world itself isn't a bad level, it's just that it's completely isolated from the rest of the world and you can't fucking warp
it's annoying

>>388550324
That's the point.
>DaS3 fucks up everything about the Painted World while they're adapting it
Unforgivable.

what is exactly the second half/after anor londo?
the world it's so interconnected, i don't know what places you guys mean

>>388550324
It being disconnected also allowed for the best individual level design in the game with Undead Burg being a second close.

>>388550674
So much this, DaS III cemented my belief that DaS I's level design was a fluke.

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>>388550807
The Lord Souls.

>>388535934
>are there glaring flaws?

everything between getting the Lord Vessel and fighting Gwyn really.

New Londo is a maze, even by typical Souls level design. Once the water drains and you can actually see where you are it gets a bit better, but not by much.

Tomb of the Giants is in the worst spot ever. Catacombs are piss easy to go through, but most people get stuck at the gate after Pinwheel and don't realize you need the Lord Vessel to continue, so they ignore it until the very end and tend to overlevel the area. Nito is a top tier boss though.

Archives are okay, if a bit repetitive. But Crystal Cave can go fuck itself.

and of course the fact that Lost Izalith even exists is a good enough reason to just stop playing and throw it away.