>2017 >medieval 2 is still best game in the series >warhammer

Warscape Engine.

>>388519547
>medieval 2 is still best game in the series
>better core gameplay than total war warhammer
Opinions. I disagree.

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>>388519682
>let's scrap this engine that allows physical interaction and personal combat on a massive scale between massive armies and replace it with one that just lets blob entities come in contact with other blob entities and start playing out kill moves according to dice roles until one blob runs away
How did this happen?

>>388519870
It's okay anon, not everyone can be smart enough to see the difference between a good but old game and a pile of shit covered in ice cream sprinkles

>>388519547
Med 2 has a shit UI and diplomacy. Empire is the obvious best. Shogun 2 is weeb shit and Napolitano doesn't have much going on. Haven't played Rome II but I remember it being a clusterfuck mess when it was release

>>388520017
Empire/Napoleon are the least awful of the warscape engine games because it was absolutely not meant for melee combat. I don't know why they thought it would be totally fine to keep using it when they moved back to games with melee warfare

>>388519942
I agree, if by old but good game you mean Rome 1 and by pile of shit covered in sprinkles you mean medieval 2.

>>388519682
Melee combat was awful in Empire and it didn't become "good" until Attila (Shogun 2 kinda gets a free pass with samurai film-esque aesthetic, complete with blood effects straight from the finale of Sanjuro, in which case honorabru duelling kinda works, plus Fall of the Samurai is more range-focused than even Empire/Napoopan so it subverts the problem pretty much entirely anyway) but units behave better in Total Warhammer than they ever did, minus units getting stuck or refusing to use their weapons and all the other shit that was present in Rome/Medieval 2 in addition to their admittedly fundamentally more sound combat engine.

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>>388519875
Because maybe they thought the old engine didn't do musket warfare that well, it wasn't a coincidence that the next game after M2 was Empire and coincidentally the worst game in the series.

>>388519942
>nostalgia - the post
Care to elaborate how M2 is so superior? I loved the game as well, but the newer TWs have their own merits.

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>tfw no total war: mesoamerica

>>388520358
Medieval II: Total War: Kingdoms

>>388520358
M2's expac? Too much Indians though

TW has more playability, all the races feel completely different and playstyles are fun
Problem with older historic titles is that all the factions feel basically the same, some just have better archers, horsemen and so on

>>388520358
>What is Medieval II Total War Kingdoms

>>388520453
>>388520435
>>388520431
shit

>>388520293
>has an engine that works and allows for dynamic battles
>isn't dumbed down (and it's not like the total war formula was that complex to begin with)
My only complaint about medieval 2 is the sheer amount of non-military agents on the board, many of which are just minor variations of each other, that bloat the turns and have generally pretty minor effects.

Well M2 has the best mods

Which TW has the best Game of Thrones mod?

>>388520227
Personally I think Attila was the best melee TW, I still play M2 just because I can DEUS VULT.
I hope Medieval 3 is just Atilla with a medieval coat of paint.

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>>388519547
Best historical total war is shogun 2. Also why play this when ck2 is a all around superior game.

MTW2 had the best overworld

Building forts in choke points was the shit

>>388520592
because underneath the veneer of nobility simulator, the actual strategy game is the same paradox trash as always, which has all the depth of a puddle.

Wahammer = Medieval 2 = Attila > Atilla w/ Charlememe Expansions = Napoleon > Rome 2 = Empire

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>>388520453
>>388520435
>>388520431
I mean exclusively focused on it.

>>388520687
*w/o

>>388520472
Kingdoms was shit because it had a realistic amount of unit variety ie none.

>>388520481
How are M2 battles more 'dynamic' than TWW battles? Even heavy cavalry charging into the back of light infantry just rubs against them for a bit until they die, rather than plowing through and carrying momentum.
And what has been dumbed down other than (arguably) settlement management? If you want more of that, go play Attila or a GSG.

>>388520592
>CK2
>litteraly half of the map is DLC-locked

>>388520687
Rome > Wahammer = Medieval 2 = Attila > Atilla w/ Charlememe Expansions = Napoleon > Rome 2 = Empire

ROME CONQUERS

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>>388520795
>rome
ye...zzzz

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When will CA ever make things like this again?

>>388520180
Rome 1 is the most overrated game in the series by a large margin.

>>388520664
>which has all the depth of a puddle.
Compared to the game with no diplomacy or feudalism system and your allies of 30 years attack you because your peaceful border unprotected.

>>388520939
>he didn't play Europa Barbarorum
I know it's a mod, but it's so great that you should definitely play Rome 1.

>>388520587
I can see that point, it's difficult to compare Attila and Total Warhammer with all those giant units and legendary lords behaving much different to units of a hundred or more. Anyhow, Attila is quite clearly the point where Warscape melee combat pretty much caught up to what older games did well, and it's far less glitchy and has various new mechanics like FOV restricted by terrain on top of that.

>>388520592
Because CK is good at all the boring shit eg politics and shitty at all the cool stuff eg battles.

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>>388519547
OP just abandon hope for the series. Any game they release in their new engine will be impossible to run, lacking in depth and DLC ridden. Just return to the first four games as they're all good (Shogun 1, Medieval 1 & 2 and Rome 1)

I want to be able to field a million soldiers

in a game that's not Dominions

>>388520981
probably after they're done experimenting with consoles and mobile gayming

>>388520981
A historical game is in the works. You'd know this if you actually gave a shit.

>>388521195
I'm talking about visible armor upgrade

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>>388519547
>warhammer mod is for free, has much more content and has better core gameplay
Sorry, but you are retarded. Reskinned units are not "more" content, Warhammer has the absolute most truly unique content out of any and all TW games, most functional faction variety, most gameplay mechanic variety, the absolute best tactical depth in combat which also makes the combat the best in the series and is also the most balanced TW game ever, which is proven by the multiplayer being more alive than it has ever been.

I'm sorry your shit game and your shit mod are no longer played by anyone, but that's just how reality is. Oh, and since Warhammer has the absolute best combat in the series, it's also the absolute best game in the series, since nobody in their sane mind plays TW games for the "map painting" mechanics that are severely dumbed down compared to actual "map painter" games like CK2 ;)

>>388520446
>more playability
game doesn't encourage playing battles yourself, sieges are shit, city managment is shitl, building slots suck. nowhere as much content as in call of warhammer

>>388519547
>>medieval 2 is still best game in the series
it's worse than Rome, you pleb
>has better core gameplay than total war warhammer
so wrong it hurts

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>>388521096
Honestly I can't compare with Warhammer just because I've got a shit PC and I couldn't play it yet.

>>388521301
Nah, medieval 2 is better than rome for several reasons but chief among those is that rome is a shitty era.

>>388521264
>The quality of posts is extremely important to this community. Contributors are encouraged to provide high-quality images and informative comments.

>>388521264
>I'm sorry your shit game and your shit mod are no longer played by anyone
>10k players of difference for 10 years old game
Are you retarded?

>>388521364
>The quality of posts is extremely important to this community.
It is, that's why you should never post again.

>>388521153
I don't think Dominions physically supports a million units. At some point I think the unit count was restricted to 2^16=65536 and while it was changed, I'm pretty sure it's not a million.

>>388521349
I'm pretty sure Attila is actually more demanding than Warhammer.

>>388519547
Med 2 had embarassingly bad collision and controls, cant believe this meme still persists.
It even has killmoves, but they look like shit and don't line up properly.

xbonex supports mouse&keyboard now, when we will see total war on console?

>>388521153
To be anywhere near manageable you'd just be issuing orders to a few Generals, it'd be closer to a gsg game or Risk.

>>388520446
>>388521296
also being unable to split units is so shit idea that its beyond shitty

>>388521296
>game doesn't encourage playing battles yourself
How? Just because you can abuse autoresolve doesn't mean you must
City building is something I can't really comment, to me it has always been just a means to get higher tier units, tho Medieval's town and castle system was nice

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>>388521389
>10k players of difference for 10 years old game
If a game is good, it will be played by the majority of the series fanbase regardless of its age. Medieval 2 is trash, Warhammer is the best game in the series. That's just how reality works, cuck.

>>388521264
>shitty game
>11 year old game still played
I want to see Warhammer in 2027 you fucking faggot

>>388521478
Hopefully never so they don't get cursed with this trainwreck of a franchise

>>388519547
>M2 Multiplayer
>"the rules are 2 cavalry INCLUDING GENERAL, no handguns, no cannons, no horse cavalry, no more than 3 and a half archer units, and no super expensive elephants either!"
>8 stacks of armored swordsmen, 4 stacks of pavise crossbowmen every game

Fuck that.

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>>388521354
>rome is a shitty era.
Compared to the era that everyone was accualy covered in shit.

Why does everyone hate Empire?

>>388519547
Medieval 2 is fucking dogshit
That piece of shit doesn't work, like in any way at all

10 years of mods couldn't fix that broken turd, take off your rose tinted faggot glasses and stop sucking a game's dick because you remember playing it after you got home from school

>>388521432
Last time I tried was actually when it released but maybe they fixed the performance issues with subsequent patches. I wouldn't want to buy the DLCs just to end up not running the game at all though.

>>388521528
>normies enjoy trash and I enjoy them
you're the cancer killing gaming, kys

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>>388521528
>cuck.
Spouting reddit memes it's the only thing you can do?

>>388521582
Plate armour looks cool and lorica looks like shit.

>>388521528
No one said that TWW is trash or bad. You're projecting yourself.

>>388521542
With the amount of warhammer fan boys i have bad news for you.

>>388521640
You don't define what is trash, Mr. Contrarian Shit-Eater. The overall fanbase of the series does and it has decided that Medieval 2 is worse than Rome 2, let alone Warhammer and you will just have to deal with it, because it's your shit, irrelevant opinion that is actually trash.

>>388521689
this knigga gets it

>>388519547
Rome is the best because muh Rome. Medieval age is gay.

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There are two types of Total War fans, those that think this was the best campaign mode and morons.

>>388521593
>was literally unplayable for most people on release thanks to game breaking bugs
>changed the engine to one that most people agree was an objective downgrade in all ways except graphical modernity, when epic vistas of huge epic battles were what's impressive about total war, not being able to count the buttons on a redcoat's.. red coat and having a bunch of superfluous lighting and smoke effects
>simulated an era of warfare where the primary tactic of the day was to march up towards your enemy in an orderly fashion, form lines, and stand there taking turns shooting at each other

also it had boats. Nobody cared about boats.

>>388521593
It was outrageously broken at launch and is broken to this day (it wasn't "fixed" even to the degree Rome 2 was), both in battles and the campaign map. The scale is grander but detail is shit (France is two provinces). It uses a new combat engine that is still in its infancy and by far the worst in the series.

QUICK WHAT IS YOUR FAVOURITE MEDIEVAL 2 MOD? MINE'S THRID AGE

>>388521853
Medieval 1 was my first, and I was really disappointed by the campaign movement in rome. Made it so much harder to hold ground because zones of control are so fucking tiny.

>>388521759
nice of you to keep digging that grave, buddy. will make it easier for whoever finds your suicide to clean up. very thoughtful

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who /knights of honor/ here?

please notice my country

>>388521737
warhammer fantasy just killed recently and age of sigmar is a piece of shit, give them a break.

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>we will never get another paradox rome game with fleshed out politics and shit

>we will never get another good TW game where the combat isn't two blobs running against eachother

There will never be a Medieval III isn't it?

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>>388521930
Aww, did the contrarian shit-eating cuck run out of arguments? Don't worry, you had none in the first place, lmao.

>>388521910
Stainless Steel obv.

>>388521997
>you will never have a fusion of PDX politics and TW

>>388521945
Is it like Stronghold games?

>>388522015
better not. I don't want it to be raped to death

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>>388520795
Rome 2 is accually pretty good after all the patches.

>>388522015
after total war saga.

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>>388522057
I guess but the combat is more simplistic. It's like EU lite with real time battles

>>388521921
It wasn't just that, the way it handled naval movement made far more sense. If you had string of ships between your army and a destination you could move there in one turn, in later games you had to put the army on a ship and spend 40 in game years transporting it to Jerusalem.

>>388520795
Drop rome down to just above napoleon and put shogun 2 and medieval 1 near the top and I agree.

>>388519547
It still uses the very flawed medieval 2 as a base

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv9fYQbCBUg

any of you TW:W cucks will care to explain that? also
>no spreading plagues with agents
>no pre-battle speeches
>no city population
>no meaningfull character traits and instead some shit skill tree where you get same stuff on each character
>no dread/chivalry mechanic

>>388522142
Looks fun, I'm too pleb for EU. But this one might be worth checking out on sale.

>>388522015
There will be, but it will be complete garbage like all the other warscape games.

>>388522336
Honestly I play total war for the battles, everything else is distantly secondary. I can enjoy stainless steel with autism settings from time to time, but sometimes I just want to build some dragon ogres and go smash some stunties.

>>388522336
what does the dread/chivalry even do?

>>388522336
>no spreading plagues with agents
Corruption
>no pre-battle speeches
Spent that time on gameplay
>no city population
There is.
>no meaningfull character traits and instead some shit skill tree where you get same stuff on each character
Skill tree is superior plus the game has legendary lords
>no dread/chivalry mechanic
Fear and buffs are still in the game.

>>388522449
>warscape is bad meme
Stop. Warhammer has unit collisions and units no longer engage in 1v1 duels like they did in Rome 2 and Shogun 2, yet Warhammer also has the ballistic calculation improvements of the Warscape engine. The modified Warscape engine used in Warhammer is the best engine in the series, only dumb niggers would say otherwise.

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>>388521906
>the primary tactic of the day was to march up towards your enemy in an orderly fashion, form lines, and stand there taking turns shooting at each other

Not really, keeping lines while moving was and is practically impossible, see pic related, this is how they moved armies at the time, and actually mods had to fix this, like the Darthmod.
The "stand there taking turns shooting at each other" was the mentality that fucked up all coalitions against France at the time. They could finally fuck NapoopaN once they learned from his flexible tactics.
So yeah, Empire and NapoopaN weren't historically, logistically or even logically accurate.

>>388519547
guys M2TW is the best
the game is literally broken on the diplomatic level

>>388519547

>Ai is brain dead
>Unit cohesion is fucked up
>Cavalry don't charge half the time

>>388522665
Diplomacy is gay. You should be out conquering.

>>388522491
your generals gain dread for stuff like killing captives, sacking cities, having high taxes when governing, etc. it lowers enemy morale in battle.
Chivalry is gained by releasing captives, low taxes etc. it raises you morale in battle, and boosts growth of your settlements and makes easier to manage public order

>>388522680
>Cavalry don't charge half the time
Bullshit. They need to gain speed first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mi8rUs240

>>388522750
>Diplomacy is gay. You should be out conquering.
well this pretty much sums up the decay of the TW fandom

>>388522650
>walking in a line was impossible

lol

>>388522795
oh okay

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>>388522449
>w-warscape is b-bad, I s-swear!

>>388522491
Dread reduces enemy moral in combat and improves the public order of cities.
Chivalry raises moral in combat and increases population growth of cities.

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>>388522875
In the way the game portrays it you fucking fag.
I want to fucking see you organizing an army to move them in straight lines in fucked up terrains.

>>388522887
>After 5 games they made it work
Wow impressive.

>>388522806
I've been playing TW since the first Medieval. Diplomacy was never good.

>>388523145
both Rome and Shogun and to an extent Empire had good diplomacy. Medieval 2 was fucked because of a software error on CA's part that they never bothered to fix because they are fucking CA

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>>388519547
Janissary Musketeers are best units in the game
prove me wrong

>>388522806
are you seriously trying to imply that diplomacy was ever something that TW players gave a shit about?

>>388522887
Oh, it's not such trash now?
Did creative assembly actually listen to the complaints about it and make it better?
I haven't actually played total warhammer, I wasn't willing to give it a chance after a literal decade of creative assembly putting out shit games with that shit engine.

>>388523145
This. Exept m2 ai couldent even handle that.

>>388523485
>it's not such trash now?
The two major complaints about Rome 2 engine were lack of unit collisions and units dueling each other instead of multiple units being able to attack a single unit. Both of these complaints were fixed in Warhammer (or maybe even Attila, but I haven't played that).

>>388523382
not the shitters no

>>388523358
>cuckissary fuccbois of filthy old fat turkmen killing their christian brethren for allah
>ever worthy of celebration

>>388523358
Janissary units are never anything beyond an expensive gimmick in any vydia.

>>388522887
BUT is it possible for infantry lines to push each other?

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Haven't bought a TW game since they turned into major DLC Jews under Sega.

If Warhammer ever gets a complete edition and it goes for under 30, I'll buy it. Until then, I'd stick to older ones. I haven't played a TW game for more than 100 hours since Empire anyways.

>>388523917

Nope

>>388523576
Rome 2 patchs fix those issues. Rome 2 engine is the same as warhammer just much more refined and 64 bit.

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>>388523984
>more content is bad maymay

>>388524210
Holy fucking shit are you this cucked that you don't see that previous games got much more content in base game? quit gaming. you are destroying this industry

>>388524210
Expansions good, DLC bad

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>>388519547

>>388524393
No they really didn't alose all the historical total wars copy and pasted the armys around with one or two diffrent units. Every faction in TW:WH is completely different from the models to battle feild and campaing map gameplay.

>>388524418
>I am the Chaos of Europe

>>388521057
EB is a shit-tier autism snore fest

>>388520990
t. plebeian

>>388523917
No, because it's nonsense from a physics and history point of view. More people pushing against an obstacle provides more force in thory only when you do not consider the biological limitations of human bodies. In reality, there will come a point where people who are acting as the intermediate parts of the force transmission mechanism will just start getting squished. This is also not an effective tactic from a historical point of view either, as proven by multiple battles in history that involved chokepoints. Warhammer has collision mechanics and heavy Large units with a lot of momentum will break through regular infantry, but infantry of same weight class can't push eat other with the only exception being Aspiring Champions, they just ragdoll regular infantry without being Large units themselves, IIRC, since, according to the lore, they are far stronger than mortal men.

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>always loved the Empire in warhammer and loved the idea of using pike and shot against monsters and chaos hordes
>in total warhammer physics is set up in such a way that infantry lines turn into blobs almost instantly and even shitty cavalry can throw around men for a dozen meters with every charge completely wrecking any semblance of a solid formation
>no unit formations like spear wall
>units stand spread out relative to earlier games
>cant actually put guns in with infantry to create tercios or other pike&shot tactics because gunners won't fucking shoot if you do that
>by far best way to use gunners (or any ranged unit) is generic flank hammer&anvil
>pikemen don't actually exist, 'spearmen' are nothing more then a generic shitty infantry with a stat bonus against large
>artillery is underwhelming

I am also baffled why they choice to reduce unit sizes and make the game smaller scale when its WARHAMMER which should have the highest unit sizes in total war history not the fucking smallest.

>>388521264
Medieval 2 mods are kind of a pain in the ass to get running on steam, so I ended up uninstalling that and downloading the standalone version instead.

>>388519547
>What went wrong?
Hey look ma, I be shitposting again! look at me!

>>388525307
Performance.

>>388520293
The small things. Try and walk a unit through another unit in M2 vs Warhammer. In M2 the unit being walked through has half it's units step to the side to create channels to walk through. In Warscape the soldiers just walk/glitch across the other unit and it looks a mess.

>>388525307
Everything you've posted is wrong. Unit formations remain intact when two infantry lines collide. Spear wall formation is used automatically by the halberd and spear wielding units so that enemy charge bonus is negated, as long as you're standing still. Gunners do not fire from regular infantry lines, because mixed unit tactics is not something that is used by anyone. Gunners are most effective when firing from an elevation like a hill, not when used to flank. Pikemen don't exist because pike formations are not something GW can model in plastic well, so they are not really present in TT very much, if at all.

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>>388523358
You could argue that Spanish Arquebus is better because it can hold its own as a melee unit if done right
>place them in the formation of pikes
>just AFK whole your boys tear shit up
>if loses are too heavy the gunners can move back through the pikes because of the gap the pikes make when engaging enemies, so whatever is in between can disengage easily.

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>>388520592
Also Fall of the Samurai is totally worth it

>>388525994
same goes for the Janissary Muskets, as they perform better than its heavy infantry counter part as they even can hold the dismounted knights

>>388521853

This. It was more immersive.

>>388525938
CA should have adapted the lore and ignored TT in my honest opinion.

>Spear wall formation is used automatically by the halberd and spear wielding units so that enemy charge bonus is negated, as long as you're standing still
I mean something that changes the mass and cohesion of the unit like previous games.

>Gunners are most effective when firing from an elevation like a hill, not when used to flank.
You can't properly shoot over your units into enemies their engaged with unless you have a nuts elevation advantage which isnt present in 9/10 of battles, you simply have to flank in order for them to do real damage.

>tfw no total war game has matched this soundtrack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWhbVYre9uk

>>388520592
>Shogun 2
Not the vanilla one or the awful Rise of the Samurai

It's actually Fall of the Samurai

>>388526683
I remember they die to ranged attacks quite easily due to lack of heavier armor, they can hold their own in a fight, but if something get a chance to fire on them or god forbid, actually charge them or flank them they crumble as easily as any ranged unit. I suppose they are useful where they are on the map though, theyre between the Byzantine empire which has no real firearms to take advantage of their weakness, and the muslim nations, which have no real firearms either. In Iberia everyone surrounding you is using firearms past a point.

>>388521057
What does it do?

>>388526987
>something that changes the mass and cohesion of the unit like previous games.
LMAO, why would you want this nonsense to happen? People extending their spears in front of them does not magically give them more mass. A cavalry charge crashing into a spear wall would transfer a tremendous impact to the infantry and the spear wall would suffer casualties as well, the spearmen would not just magically impale the knights on their spears. Spearmen being able to halt a cavalry charge dead in its tracks is retarded, Warhammer has it right: the impact is greatly reduced, but the impact is still there and people die on both sides.

>You can't properly shoot over your units
I always do that and my gunners hit the enemy way more often than they hit my own troops. Sure, there's some friendly fire, but it's far more convenient to shoot from a hill than to put your vulnerable gunners into flanking positions where they can get hit by other enemy units.

>>388519547
>warhammer
>fights are over in 30 seconds
im glad they are finally appealing to the ADD audience

>>388527652
>LMAO, why would you want this nonsense to happen? People extending their spears in front of them does not magically give them more mass.
Mass the stat used in total war games is not the same as mass the thing in real life, Its just a way to change how a unit behaves relative to other units, it opens up more options.

>the spearmen would not just magically impale the knights on their spears.
The spearmen should not go flying 30 feet in all directions then get back up again to continue the fight with the knights, they should either blunt the charge or get annihilated and blown through.

>>388525938
>Unit formations remain intact when two infantry lines collide
I don't know what you're playing, but they didn't when I played.

>because mixed unit tactics is not something that is used by anyone
Except, you know, the Empire.

>Pikemen don't exist because pike formations are not something GW can model in plastic well, so they are not really present in TT very much, if at all.
What is Tilea? What are dogs of war?

>>388525938
>Spear wall formation is used automatically by the halberd and spear wielding units so that enemy charge bonus is negated
it's not, that's been defined as a unit "bracing" for years. it's not a real formation

>>388523124
if only you'd been there to tell the greeks and the romans that the way they obliterated all their enemies on the battlefield actually didn't work
oh and the europeans who did that shit just fine too, until napoleon came along with his more individualistic armies to show them how stupid having to have their commander tell them how to do everything was on a modern battlefield

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>>388520981
they won't, and they never did, that's a mod, probably from stainless steel.

Historical game is already in the works, and in the end you would need modders to add historical authenticity to unit skins.

>>388529151
oh I see you were talking about unit upgrades.
probably never again rip.

>>388528716
Greeks and Romans didn't move their armies in vast distances on straight lines though, they would do the phalanx just close to the enemy.
Actually M2 and other TW games simulate this, doing phalanx makes your armies slow as fuck because they need to keep close to each other and not break the line.

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>>388521542
Are you fucking kidding me? If Total War Warhammer remains to be the only fantasy title that CA releases, it's going to survive BEYOND 2027 nignog. I'll give it till 2050.

And to top it all off, you simply don't know how many Warhammer fans there are...

>>388520981
WOW SPEARS SPEARS SPEARS GIVE ME SPEARS