What's worse, the engine or the people who use it?

I mean, you can only blame the riders so many times for the wheel breaking off the fork of a bike.

I've never actually used the Unity engine so I'm only saying that as an outside observer.

>>388499357
The people who complain about it.

>>388499498
That's a very telling statement

>>388499357
the engine is pretty good, from my own experience. it's most of the users who suck, someone who is proficient in Unity achieves good results, while asset flippers create shit. the worst are people who see that shit and claim it's the engines fault.

I assure you, I can create shit in ANY engine.

>>388500071

yeah I don't know why people blame engines for bad games. I don't think most people even know what they're talking about when it comes to that

>>388499493
It's not apt to compare a game's bad performance to the bike breaking apart. Because it has very little to do with the engine's construction, but how it was used.

A better metaphor would be the bike crashing into a wall. The bike still broke, and yes that had something to do with the way it was constructed, but it's the rider's fault the bike ended up hitting a wall at high speed.

>>388500267
>A better metaphor would be the bike crashing into a wall. The bike still broke, and yes that had something to do with the way it was constructed, but it's the rider's fault the bike ended up hitting a wall at high speed.
A rider will break any bike if he is stupid enough to use it like a battering ram.

At first i was thinking the engine sucked but with time people managed to do good games that didnt felt like Unity. I guess its just the people that use it that made it look like shit

>>388499498
This

>>388499498
This.
Usually people who complain about Unity know nothing about how games are made and what an engine is.

>>388499357
I wish Unity would hire some creative talent/partner with a games studio and create a really good, big-budget AAA game that utilizes all of Unity's features so we could see what it's actually capable of

The people who use it, no question. Great games have been made with Unity like Inside and Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty.

>>388500267

I don't know. I mean some engines are just doomed. It's doesn't happen that often because the people who do it are usually better at their job than others in the industry. When it does though, every effort is made to sweep that reality under the rug. Ease-of-use has taken a premium over having a comprehensive engine which is a really bad thing. Where the fuck will all the engine designers be when it's become so easy to use them?

>>388500547
Neither do people who make games in Unity.

>>388500680
Sounds like trying to compete with Unreal, which isn't worth it. Unity won't beat Unreal in graphics and anything under the hood will just fly under the radar in terms of giving a good impression.

>>388500454
>At first i was thinking the engine sucked but with time people managed to do good games that didnt felt like Unity. I guess its just the people that use it that made it look like shit
A few years ago, Unity really has this shit tier UI system that you literally need to pay for a UI asset to make it work better but even then everyone just basically copies everything online so Unity made games has this "unity UI" look in them.

But this was maybe more 5 years ago and any none copy-paste dev back then can work around it and you were forced to use Unity, pay expensive UE(back then), go back to flash or use other engines with literally no community so you are fucked if you want help on something.
>>388500680
>Heartstone
Unity's marketing is badly managed and they don't really have the cash for what you want that's why they prioritize indies for years and is now just pushing for becoming something else and not just for indies.

Is this suppose to suggest Mighty No.9 is indicative of the quality of Unreal Engine?

>>388500851

>Mighty No.9

Forgot that existed. Historically those guys aren't known for making an engine that works well in that format. All the same I think it was a poor job done by the dev all-around. No fault on the engine in the least.

>>388500787
And that's their fault, not the engine's.

>>388499357
Nothing is wrong with the engine. It's fairly easy to do the basic shit which means it's more accessible to babbys first game which is then published in steam, but plenty of good games have been made in steam as well. Cities: Skyline, being an obvious example.

>>388500851
>>388500937
Engines are not miracle workers.

One flaw UE has is it is a performance hog when compared to Unity.

>>388499357
people, engine is fine
Honestly it is still a net positive since you don't need to play the bad games that come out and they already get shit on a ton. It could be seen as killing off the pleb developers before they get anywhere else

>>388499357
Both are bad. A lot of developers are asset-flipping retards, sure, but everything the engine does leaves you unsatisfied. You really have to rely on the asset store because the engine is missing all sorts of features.

But it's great for rapid prototyping and a lot of the issues are unimportant for small/solo teams, so I'll say the debe are worse.

>>388501063
>because the engine is missing all sorts of features
Like what?

>>388501063
You're bad at making assets lol

>>388501053

That's what I was saying anyways. Some types of games work much better in a certain engine. Back when the PC was having a blowout of really good games, and consoles were way behind people were talking about different engines that were showing up all the time.

The most advanced engines still being used today are for the most part in some way designed inspired by the Quake and Unreal engine. Stagnation isn't allowed in the video game industry. Or else you can fuck off someplace else and make sandwiches or something.

>>388500971
It's the engine's fault for enabling them.

>>388501338
That's a really stupid thing to say lol

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>developers advise amateurs to finish a game and release it as it's a great learning experience
>amateurs release waves of shitty games

why do devs still keep advising this

>>388501338
I blame 4chan for your shitposting.

>>388500071
I think part of the issue is that unity keeps getting shilled, yet there's not a lot of high profile games made with it. it's more like, what's so great about it? from my experience it's not great for simple 2D games, and it's not really on part with engines like ue4. I guess it's alright for low poly or 2.5d.

>>388501035

Steam is a really good engine. It's the equivalent of driving a car.

Unreal is like a Ferrari, Valve ironically is like a Volvo.

>>388501368
>He doesn't understand the joke
Being this retarded must suck lmao

>>388501424
They prioritized indies for years and big companies will use tools that they are accustomed to so switching will not happen overnight.

>>388501495
just looks like regular shitposting to me. I mean, you may have intended it to be a joke but text base communication loses a lot of nuance in the delivery.

>>388499357
Both are bad

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>>388499357

The engine is great, but the creators of the engine invented this huge image problem for themselves. The basic version of the engine necessitates a splash screen showing the Unity logo on start-up, with the premium editions allowing this to be disabled. People uploading low-effort cash grabs to Steam would obviously use the basic version of the engine, but if the problem stopped there then that's fine. Just don't buy games that were shipped in the basic version.

Unfortunately there's too many idiots out there that think, because of this, that EVERY game made in Unity is made in the basic version, because in their minds if the game doesn't have the splash screen at the beginning then its not made in Unity. That's not how game engines work at all. Removing the splash screen is pretty much the most substantial feature in the Pro versions of Unity, and the sooner they make it a feature in Basic, the better. The Unity Team is just profiting off a bad self-image, with devs having to pay to hide what engine they used because of lazy Early Access shovelware devs and misinformed consumers. It's fucking backwards but it works.

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>>388501427
>steam is a really good engine

>>388500196
Some engines are pretty bad though, not many, not unity, but some are definitely bad. *cough*gamebryo*cough*

>>388501636

Same look on my face right now, can't remember the name. Something to do with plumbing.

>>388501645

It's actually a prime example of how ease-of-use leads to complete bumfuckery. It must be a fucking dream to develop for that engine, I swear. Unless they're paying everybody who works on Bethesda games in shoelaces to hang themselves with or some shit.

>>388501645
gamebryo is fine.

Nothing is more cringeworthy than watching gamers talk about technology.
Kya scum.

>>388501635
>and the sooner they make it a feature in Basic, the better.
They never will, getting rid of the Unity badge of shame is why people actually buy the engine.

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>>388501814
>gamebryo is fine.

>>388501836
Kys *

>>388501407
I miss the days when shitty games were offloaded to some corner of the Internet instead of being dumped on actual video game stores.

>>388501920
Blame steam then.

>>388501836

I hope it's not about gamebryo, because part of the draw to that engine is that it's very easy to do SOME complicated things with it. If it's something truly complicated however, it's like trying to lead an angry goat to water with a broken leg. You know to blame the engine and not the developers. Yet it's still worth some note that they refuse to try something else.

>>388501814
no way. It's got memory leaks and legacy data when you load saves mid play. These are really important things to solve for an engine made for open world games. Also disintegrated enemies have had trouble being cleared since Fallout 3, even New Vegas and Skyrim had those problems. They really gotta fix that.

>>388501105
Default 3D text and IK are bad. A lot of people tell me Pro Builder is a must for 3D (I do 2D mostly). I was disappointed with the sound system when I tried to do real-time sound modulation for a game jam. RectTransforms don't have a 'snap anchors to local corners' option.

Oh, and pixel perfect 2D is painful as fuck. These are problems I've had and I wouldn't say I've gone too in-depth. Luckily the Unity community publishes a lot of this stuff for free.

>>388502106

I'm sort of thinking that they're having trouble with the particulars of refreshing a whole cel. Sometimes it's partial, and then it's total, and then it's not at all and doesn't seem to have much to do with player character time played. It's an extremely minor annoyance.

To have as comprehensive a game as anything in a single player Elder Scrolls that will satisfy consumers, I just don't know what a better option would be. I mean, you could eventually combine elements from a lot of games into one but hardware has to catch up.

Engines wouldn't seem so lazy and contrived if hardware could keep up with software.

Why do Unity games run like ass on AMD cards? I'm talking about Cities Skylines and House Party in particular.

Fuck this thread post games you're working on or have completed.

>>388502106
>>388501875
Catherine was made in Gamebryo. It runs flawlessly.

Fucking Bethesda can't even into their own engine.

>>388499498
/thread

>>388499493
Look, here's how it goes:
>engine is released
>advertises itself as the easy to use platform for amateur game devs
>everyone jumps on it and start making stuff
>a lot of good games gets made by professional or passionate developers
>even more terrible games get made by amateurs and people trying to make quick dosh
>people can't even tell which good games are made in unity, while the terrible ones get that huge splashscreen at the start
>they assume it's the engine's fault that all these games are shit

>>388503672
this, it's just pure survivorship bias

>>388499357
Is the engine valve uses readily available? I remember reading something about source 2 that its free to use for anyone commercially if you put the game on steam

>>388503919
I'm not sure.
Apart from Titanfall, most of the Source games were mods that were curated by Valve and allowed to be sold as their own thing.

Neither, you entitled child.

>>388499357
The people.
The engine is fine, but money hungry morons with no understanding nor patience for optimization and testing just can't use it.

>>388503672
there are good games made with unity that many people don't even realise are made with unity since the developers paid for the pro version and can remove the splash screen.

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>>388499357
> not knowing OpenGL
> not making your own, small, efficient engine
> using bloatunity to create pong clones

>>388505662
...and not so coincidentally, said devs also were actually competent enough to spend lots of time creating custom features and both testing + optimizing their game. Instead of, you know, just importing tons of free assets into the map editor, and instantly sending that trash to Greenlight.

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>>388499357
The unity developers are a bunch of wolves. They know the splash screen is a mark of death, so you have to pay to circumvent it. This was okay back when you could buy the latest version for a set price, but they changed this to a scummy subscription-only model somewhere last year. Supposedly you can buy off the latest version after you've paid the subscription for x years, but there's no information on how much you have to pay for that, and there's no telling whether this option will still be available by then. I moved to MonoGame when I read the news, and it was the right choice.

>>388500680
Hearthstone, Ori and the Blind Forest, Furi, Superhot, INSIDE, pillars of eternity. Lots of good stuff but in general if you're making a huge AAA game Unity doesn't have the tools you need to get the most out of a console. C++ is still gamedev king and unreal has that arena on lock.

>>388499357
Steam, for allowing trash onto it's storefront.

>>388501427

Steams also outdated and old with Valve having no interest in updating it to modern standards.

>>388502773
Much less ambitious

>>388500772
>some engines are just doomed.
Certainly not unity.
They are making bank, big time.
Unity is in some way a F2P game of engines, people get the free version and then pay for premade assets with microtransactions, then release the dreck on steam, or PS4 now.

The "actual" developers are wise to not show that a game is made with unity, since threads like these show how superficial people are in their critique of unity.

Literally every single game made with Unity runs like trash.

Anyone who uses NEEDS to show on Steam or whatever storefront that they're using it so I can fucking filter out the trash.

>>388503672
Nice, someone with a brain that doesn't parrot ignorant opinions.

I've been using Unity professionaly for around 3 years now. The engine is fine. Far from perfect, but the result will be as good as your skills are.

The one to blame for the situation was always Greenlight, for giving a market to certain kinds of people and for some reason creating this misguided idea that Unity was the problem instead of the fucking developers.

>>388508474
see>>388506336
The ones I've played run with no issues.

Anyone here tried Unity on N3DS? I've been working on something a for a couple of days but I'm interested to see if anyone else has tried it.

>>388506336
Hollow Knight, Cryptark, Expeditions: Conquistador & Vikings, Rain World (sort of), Subnautica, Sunless Sea, Cities: Skyline, Endless Space & Legend, Darkest Dungeon, Shadow Tactics
There are so many good unity games, people don't even know they're made with it

>>388499357
>What's worse, the gun or the people who use it?

>Make a cube in Unity
>It has an update function
>Every single thing has an update function
>Make a cube in Unreal 4
>It inherits from a virtual base class

Good job guys.

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I'm making my game in unity but I told one normie friend of mine that I am and he told so many people and now when I go back to the college everytime I'm there normies point at me and say "Wow you're the guy who uses that unity drag and drop engine right why dont you use unreal or cryengine?".

I'm never admitting what engine I use ever again.

>>388515451
Do they really think UnrealEd or CryEngine work differently?

>>388515127
What does this mean for someone that doesn't program stuff/use engines?

>>388516406
Yes. Unity has THAT bad of a rap with normies and even normal gamers. No idea why I guess all the shit free meme games? But it should be clear to anyone with a lick of IQ that engines are a tool, not the problem.

>>388511252
Subnautica runs like absolute shit though. Is that really something you want to add into that otherwise impressive list?

How good is godot for 3D?

Nothing performance heavy, mind you. Low poly shit.

>>388516606
>Why is this running so slow?

>>388499498
jesus christ

/thread

>>388516756
Subnautica also isn't out yet, and based on their roadmap, they are currently working on performance, optimization and polish.

When you're not looking for performance, it doesn't matter what you use. The users will be at fault when it comes to that kind of thing. But when you are, you want to seek something that is a little bit more efficient with its processes, and Unity is meant for people less skilled. Which in turn fosters the kind of games people make from it, which is generally trash. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

What you should be doing is using it to build things with less hassle than doing it ALL by hand, like prototyping, or making less ambitious games to show off a vision without wasting too much time on your own under the hood tweaking and somesuch. Take the ease off simple projects and more easily presenting a bigger idea in mind, that's what it should be for. Not for users to just fuck around in and make terrible idiotic beginner level things. That's what you have those easybake game maker utilities for.

>>388516606
That OOP is inherently flawed for performance and using an engine which knows absolutely nothing about its implementation is retarded.

>>388516772
Really bad, the tools are clunky and clearly unfinished.
No matter what you do, it will end up looking ugly and performing much worse than it should.
They're rewriting the entire 3D side of Godot for 3.0 though

>the virgin unity
>the chad unreal engine 4

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Which one, /v/?

Gamemaker, unity, unreal, godot, monogame, or clickteam fusion?

I got the full version of gamemaker on steam.

>>388515451
I like your game, do you have anything else to share?
Tip: I really, really like the visuals, but I think there's too much visual clutter all at once, it took me a while to figure out what was going on in that webm.

>>388517894
Depends on what you want to use the engine for. There is no absolutely 100% superior engine.

>>388517894
it depends on the kind of game you wanna make

>>388518024
>>388518094

A 2D game first.

>>388518132
Then probably Gamemaker.

>>388517894
If you really care about vidya, just learn how to program in C and Python.
If you just want to make a little whatever, sure, use an engine.

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>enginedev

>>388517894
Depends on what you already know, what kind of game you want to make, etc.

>>388518276
I already know basic C AND Python, and I have no idea how to make a game with these.
Also, it would be an horrendous waste of time to use fucking C to code a new engine for game development when there are multi-purpose engines to simplify it for you.

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>>388518004
https://twitter.com/TheeWhiteReaper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30svoacCHYs&t=4s

Heres the games trailer from like 2 months ago too. Its still in early development though.

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No one cares about what engine your indieshit is build with, those who will care most certainly wont care about the engine you used

>>388518276
If you want to make a game, you use an engine.
You either know this already, or realize it after your game looks like it's from 1980 after three years of work

>>388518523
Just use a small library. SDL2, SFML2, Allegro.
You don't really want to make some huge level full of enemies and NPCs and orchestral music right?
You want to understand how to make this square stop moving when it hits another square.

You'll then come to realise that you can make an engine ten times better than Unreal or Unity because it'll be tailored to you and what you need.

>>388518647
Reminds me of captain toad and Edge, with Super Mario 3D World visuals.

>>388499357
The people. Good games can be made with shitty engines.

>>388518810
What about Godot and MonoGame, are these good?

>>388499357
Both

>>388499357

It's a bit of both.

The people who use it are obviously responsible for the games made with it. It's easy to use so has a low barrier of entry. Lots of unskilled people will try to use it because they want to make games and Unity makes it easy to make games.
But this is how it has always been and always will be. People are not suddenly experts and make amazing games, it's a learning process that takes a long time. Unity has just gathered a lot of these people who before spread out.

But part of the problem does lie with Unity it's self. The engine is mostly fine, it's a bit awkward to use parts of it but the main problems are it's an asset platform first and they only promote bad games.

It being an asset platform is a major problem. It promotes an environment not conducive to learning. There is no point in learning to do things yourself when you can just download an asset to do it for you.
So people just never learn and since everyone is using the same assets every game made with Unity feels the same.

The second problem is the "made with Unity" splash screen. Only the free version has this, and if someone is using the free version of Unity it's likely they're not very serious about game development.
There is plenty of serious developers who have made good games with Unity, but they paid and their games don't have this splash screen so you'd never know it was made with Unity. While all the shitty games do have the splash screen and advertise that they were made with Unity.

These are the main problems with Unity.

>>388518797
I'd say it takes about three years to figure what the hell Unreal 4 is doing with its camera system.

>>388518929
Literally use anything, it doesn't even matter.
Here, I'll make it easy. Go use Godot.
It's more about getting your feet wet. The more experience the better.

>>388518929
Godot is like an open source version of Unity, better in some ways, worse in other. Right now it's not very good for 3D though.
And don't listen to that guy, Unity and Unreal are definitely better than what you'd be able to code in ten years.
If you don't take every shortcut possible, you're not a real coder

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>Made with unity

>>388518810
>Whoa there buddy you aren't making a triple A game here
>Now go spend weeks making an engine for something that would only take a couple of days in an engine that already exists
/v/ game dev threads are always good for a laugh

>>388519117
>The more experience the better.

Sadly this. I've been "making" a game for 4 years while figuring programming and 3d design at the same time. In the end I had to scrap it in favour of a all new project because shit I made during learning was broken from the core. At least half of those assets would be put to good use

Rust is made in Unity. Your argument is invalid.

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>>388503672
Just stop posting Jim and go back to bed

>>388519240
>Don't worry about learning how to program anything
>Here, just use all this built-in stuff

Sometimes it's good to make things with a minimal framework. You learn better through your own simple implementations.

You don't make Unreal 5, you just make little toy projects.

>>388499357
People who buy shitty games made with it

>>388499498
This.
Unity is fantastic. It's just very open source. There's nothing wrong with that. Judge the people who make the shit games. If Unity didn't exist, they'd find another way to make a shitpile.

>>388519578

I feel like when people talk about engines everyone is talking about something different.

When you say make your own engine, realistically you're not making an engine. You're almost definitely using tons of tools developed by other people and just arranging them in a way that lets you use them to make a game.

Making an entire engine from scratch is more complex than most people would ever need. Making an engine isn't like reinventing the wheel, it's like reinventing the atoms and molecules that the wheel is made of.

>>388499357
What's bad about the engine? Do you have literally any idea what you're talking about?

>>388519863
Not exactly, senpai.

I've written a game engine before. Mine didn't have an editor because I wasnt as invested, but a number of the guys I work with have made full working engines in their off time.

>>388520037

And I bet most of the hard work for your "engine" was done by other people.

An example is C++ loading images. It doesn't have this feature by default. I mean, you can tell it to read the data in a file, but it cannot do anything with it. You have to program that functionality yourself. But all of this stuff has been done before so people will just download a library someone else made to do it.
Libpng, a library for loading PNG files has a massive source code. It's over 100,000 lines of code.

You claim you made an engine, but in reality you probably just assembled a set of tools in such a way that make it easy for you to make a game with them.

>>388499498
>t. unitycuck

I thought you could import an unmanaged C++ library into unity if you're throwing such a shitfit about muh performance/features ?

>>388522582
You can but then you have to debug and compile for each platform which is not always possible because time/cost/whatever.

>it's another episode of "/v/ doesn't know what a game engine is or does"

Engine is fine overall

>>388522898
While Cleve spends 20 years trying to emulate wizardry 1 in angelscript... a little time in debug doesn't seem so bad in comparison

>>388523515
Time is money and when you want to port to linux the cost can be a little overwhelming for small teams. You're talking about grimoire right? Thought it was all C or something.

>>388520331
Not that guy, but there's a whole happy middle ground between "outsource it all to Unity" and "every line of code is mine".
The problem with black box middleware is that when the tools are working for your problem everything is fantastic. But then unless your game is basically a Unity test project you'll run into things you want to do differently. And then you run into the wall of trying to code around this black box to get it to do something it's not designed for.
Unity's ability to import models from several formats, simple shader setups, generic input, 3D sound, somewhat WYSIWYG editing, and their large platform support is all a massive time save. IF you are using them extensively.
Writing the PNG loader yourself probably won't give you any benefit. But NOT having to write re-entrant C# to do a simple 2D platform shooter can swing the pendulum massively back in favour of a custom engine.
tl;dr Unity is amazing for what it is, but beginners gravitate towards it because they lack the experience to know that paradoxically middleware is usually best handled by experts.

>>388499498
>>388500476
>>388500547
>>388503060
>>388516960
>>388519845
Guess what engine these posters use.

Making your own engine is advised AFTER you have done what you wanted to with pre-built tools and you think you can tweak something better for performance sake. It's a very high chance that someone has already thought of what you wanted to be able to do, or at least a roundabout of it, and created something that would be useful, but it might not be perfect or efficient if your research has investigated better performing ways to do it. But you first want to see how possible the problem is before handwriting it by yourself, and aliasing it all by engine utils is the best way to expedite this process.

>>388515127
you can remove the update function