Remember when Sonic had fully three dimensional stages, only

Nope

>>388456098
I remember the original very first Sonic game, Sonic Adventure for the Dreamcast.

>team blast
haha

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>>388456707
CHAOS CONTROL

I never played any of these sanic games. Is it really that fucking hard for them to make a fast pace 3D platformer game? Why not just make the shit open world meme game like every other game is doing these days? Except the gimmick for the game is you go super fast through the world. I mean shit there are tons of open world games and they all have their gimmicks and sell well. So why can't this game do the same? I'm sure it would work.

>>388456991
A more open world sonic game with a collectathon kinda vibe with a focus on speed would fix a lot o the issues I think, sonic team has just never been smart enough to try it and would probably fuck it up anyway.

>>388456098
Annihi-charge annihi-charge annihilation

>>388456098

My only problem with heroes was the slippery controls, the pointless enemy health point system, and the fact that your team mates don't shut the fuck up.

I also think Crush 40 was at their worst with Sonic Heroes.

>>388456836
Omega does literally all the work here and the other two are completely superfluous. They may as well just take cover.

>>388456098
>only one gameplay style that was about high speed platforming action
That's not the gameplay style of Heroes, the gameplay style of Heroes was to mash a button as the Power character every ten seconds to take on the constant rooms of "Look at all those Eggman's robots!"

Terrible game

>>388456098
No, but I do remember playing as Team Chaotix and having to slowly put out like two hundred torches scattered around a level

>>388456098
>Cut Team Rose
>Make Team Chaotix one mission per area
Is it improved?

>>388457631

>Shadow stops time

Its debatable whether he needs the height that Rouge gives him, but the move clearly takes advantage of Chaos Control

>>388456098
Sonic heroes was garbage my dude

>>388458291
are you saying that you wouldn't want Rouge to sit on your head?

>>388458465

If I were a robot with no robodong, the agony that I can't CLANG Rouge would make me want to self-destruct

>>388457516
This is the game that has What I'm Made Of, you must have meant best.

>>388456991
Look up Zineth, it's a freeware game that's much like you describe.

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>>388456991
>>388457352
Sonic Utopia is gonna be pretty much what you're describing. Check out the demo, it's free.

>>388459213
Get this nostalgia-pandering classicuck trash out of here.

>>388459017

I hated What I'm Made Of

Their one offs in Adventure 1 and 2 were great but their shit was overboard for Heroes

>>388459056
Yeah that is pretty much what I was getting at. That game looks like an old atari game if it were 3D.

>>388456098

>had fully three dimensional stages

I'd consider "level design" consisting almost entirely of a single rectangular corridor floating over a death pit, with little in the way of verticality or exploration, to be 3D by pure technicality.
And yes, I'd consider pretty much every "3D" Sonic to be just as guilty.

>only one gameplay style that was about high speed platforming action

One gameplay style where you play as three characters that play like gimped versions of themselves, so the other two characters aren't overshadowed.

>objective was just getting to the goal ring

Unless you play Team Chaotix. Then you have to play missions ranging from boring (grab collectables poorly hidden in the single rectangular corridor) to aggravating (grind rings on a pinball table with broken physics).

>>388459213
I've tried it and it's not very intuitive, it's designed with a specific play style in mind and it does nothing within the level design to teach or encourage you to play it the way it's meant. Could a lot of game testing with a wider range of people to get the feel of how to design the levels in way that teaches you to properly play the game without having to read a manual or looking at a youtube video and gives you some kind of goal. It's good for being developed by an amateur, but you can't seriously tell me that this would be considered good if it was released by Sega.

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>>388459410
Graphics don't matter.

>>388459325
>Adventurefags getting THIS triggered over a tech demo
lmao

>>388460275
>lumping Heroes fans with Adventurecucks

>>388460431
True, I probably shouldn't lump them in together, Heroes is way worse than the Adventures

>>388460608
>Heroes is way worse than the Adventures
maybe that would be the case if it wasn't for all the emerald hunting, fishing, shooting etc. Heroes is the better game.

>>388460727
To each their own, I'd personally prefer a game with extreme highs and extreme lows than a game that is consistently mediocre. I can't remember a single moment in Heroes where I felt like I was actually enjoying myself, except for the Sound Test screen.

>>388456098

Why would you post a picture of the literal worst Sonic game?

>>388460936
>I'd personally prefer a game with extreme highs
There are no extreme highs in Sonic Adventure 1 or 2, they're both okay.

>>388460727
This, plus Heroes had the story taking a backseat, giving it a much better gameplay to cutscene ratio, and level themes and motifs that were much more diverse and interesting. It also didn't have weird audio mixing problems shitting up the already poor writing.

>>388459325
>thinking this plays like 2d sonic
>>388459968
>you can't seriously tell me that this would be considered good if it was released by Sega.
People consider colors and generations good, don't they?

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>>388460727
>it's a "only the sonic gameplay is good" episode

>>388460727
>>388460431
>>388456098

The only reason any sane person would consider Sonic Heroes to be anything above a 2/10 is if it was their first Sonic game and they are blinded by nostalgia.

In which case they are underage babies whose opinions are to be disregarded.

Sonic Heroes is where 3D Sonic died. It has no redeeming qualities and set the stage for a decade of shitty games.

Probably no coincicence that it was also the first Sonic game made after Sega went third party. I bet all the halfway competent designers and programmers who ensured that the Adventure games at least had good movement physics if nothing else had left at that point.

>>388456286
fpbp

>>388461316
>only the sonic gameplay is good
To be fair, if we're talking about SA2 then he's dead right. The shooting and the treasure hunting were both made significantly worse in SA2

>>388461345
Sonic 1 was my first sonic game, Sonic 2 is my personal favourite. Heroes isn't worse than the adventure games.

>>388461202
>People consider colors and generations good, don't they?
Maybe because they work within their own design, even if you might not like it. They're easy to understand without prior knowledge and feel good to play. You're comparing a black burnt steak to a well made hamburger here. And yeah I know, >food analogy

>>388456098
I wish modern Sonic games could have even half the success of modern Mario games while adding new features to the series.

>>388461492

I assume you also think Sonic 4 isn't any worse than the classic games then, because you are clearly blind to the importance of movement physics in Sonic games.

Sonic Heroes literally doesn't have physics at all. Everything just moves at preset speeds and isn't affected by momentum, slopes, even gravity a lot of the time. This turns it into a floaty mess and invalidates the game from the start.

The endless mandatory button mashing robot fights and having to replay the same stages 4 times with almost no gameplay variety only makes it worse. And that's not even getting into the hyper-linear level design and the repetitive music.

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>>388456098
I have to say the tone in this one was probably the best it ever was in the whole series
The story was simple just like it should be in platforming games
It was colourful and the levels wouldn't have looked out of place in a 2D game
They even split them up into 2 acts and a boss

If someone asked me what was the most authentic 3D sonic game I would say this one

>>388462169
>Sonic Heroes literally doesn't have physics at all. Everything just moves at preset speeds and isn't affected by momentum, slopes, even gravity a lot of the time. This turns it into a floaty mess and invalidates the game from the start

This makes it pretty interesting to watch speed runs of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUpC6xHF6us
But that doesn't really defend it

>>388456991
Sonic has had brief flirts with open world and it clearly can work. Lost World's dlc Zelda level is open and makes even that game's mechanics shine.

>>388459213
Sonic Utopia is nothing more than a tech a demo and even not THAT good

>>388459968
>it does nothing within the level design
it's a prototype sandbox
>teaches you to properly play the game without having to read a manual or looking at a youtube video
are you fucking serious? did you need to look up a youtube video on how to play sonic 1 or super mario bros too?

>>388457884
>cutting out Big and qts
just make it where you dont have to go through the game as every team to get last story.

>>388457768
>playing power
nigga, get speed to level 3 and the homing attack is enough. unless its knocking the helmet off with power

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>>388463564
It's hard to discuss this with someone who's obviously familiar with the game but I'll bite. In Sonic in Mario you start to the left and can only proceed to the right so the player understands that they need to go right. A game should convey what it wants you to do through it's design, you just assume that everyone would know because you already do. If you just drop a link to a game where the demo is a sandbox obviously I'm going to assume that's what the game is supposed to be, and if it's not then why even make it a sandbox to begin with? It obviously doesn't work a sandbox game. What will the end product even be?

Sonic Heroes is fun.. if you're playing Team Rose or Sonic. The moment you step into Dark or Chaotix, the fun has left the building.

And even then, the fun has stipulations. Rail-focused areas/levels are potential life-wasters because of how finicky rail switching can be, the floaty momentum as characters go from zero to one-hundred in a second can lead to becoming well acquainted with the bottomless pits most of the zones have around floating level architecture, and things like the Homing Attack and Lightspeed Dash basically decide when they want to work and when they don't - which, of course, can get you killed too. Combine that with later levels getting rather lengthy, especially with Team Dark, and the fact that the characters not only never shut up but even repeat some level quotes from time to time is bloody well agonizing.

Heroes isn't bad, and it's at least more consistent than six or three different playstyles like the Adventure games, but it doesn't necessarily do anything really well, either; the Sonic parts of Adventure still outstrip Heroes' playability.

>>388463564
>did you need to look up a youtube video on how to play sonic 1 or super mario bros too?
No because those games are well designed and properly guides the player into doing what they want you to do. The first super Mario bros was my first game I ever played back in the early 90s and I sure as hell didn't need anyone to tell me how to play it.

>>388456098
There is nothing more pathetic than defending Memeroes in 2017

>>388464269
You're argument would be sound if this wasn't a TECH DEMO which it clearly is.

>>388462169
>Sonic Heroes literally doesn't have physics at all. Everything just moves at preset speeds and isn't affected by momentum, slopes, even gravity a lot of the time
Heroes speedrunner here, you're full of shit. Heroes does indeed have momentum and you can use it to skip sections of the level just like Adventure. It's not as good as Adventure's because Heroes runs on a shittier engine but stop spouting blatant lies, it still exists.

>>388464269
>>388464558
you two must have fucking brain damage I've barely touched 3d sonic at all and figure out utopia's deal within 20 seconds of playing it

>>388464494
I'd love for Heroes to get a remaster. There's a good game buried underneath a bunch of minor problems like finicky collision and slippery speed.

>>388464640
Why even share it if it's not representing what the game is supposed to be? Also this is the description from the dude making it "Sonic Utopia is an experiment that not only tries to expand on Sonic gameplay in an intuitive way in 3D, but also aims to capture the best of Sonic's style and tie it together in a cohesive experience. Nearly everything in this demo, from art to sound to the gameplay engine, was made from scratch." doesn't sound like he intended it to be just a tech demo, I think that's how he intends the game to be structured.

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>>388464269
Sonic Utopia's a fangame tech demo demonstrating what they want to do and the gameplay they've created, rather than something you're inherently supposed to be treating as some full game. It's a fleshed out proof of concept basically.

And even then, the Sonic games have always had a high skill ceiling, expecting you to learn how to utilize your abilities and momentum alongside mastering level design to get the most out of your experience. Utopia doesn't really have level design right now to accentuate it, but they still expect you to learn how to do things on your own and make your own path.

>>388464863
>Sonic gameplay in an intuitive way in 3D, but also aims to capture the best of Sonic's style and tie it together in a cohesive experience
Which this showcases, the gameplay not the game that the gameplay would be used in.
> Nearly everything in this demo, from art to sound to the gameplay engine, was made from scratch
This doesn't point any favors towards any side, it's just a statment about the assets.
>Why even share it if it's not representing what the game is supposed to be?
Do you not understand "proof of concept"

It's a tech demo you moron.

>>388464856
>There's a good game buried underneath a bunch of minor problems
That's what I've said for ages. Here's a list of thinks a Heroes remake should do to make it a great game:
>fix the mountain of control problems including slipperiness, collision, power character sliding all over the place when they attack, etc.
>fix the camera on the pinball tables to be an overhead view so you can actually see what you're doing
>only make the Chaos Emeralds the requirement for the Final Story and every other Story is just optional/a clever mask for difficulty select
>get rid of the armored enemies in the lategame stages, they're the only ones that actually make people complain about health bars
>increase the ground speed of flight formation or let Tails move on his on
>fix the controls in the special stages (just make it like they were in Generations 3DS basically)
There, Heroes is now the best 3D Sonic game.

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>>388465171
So the concept is that you can move the character within a 3d space or what? I knew that was possible. It's not intuitive, it's not a cohesive experience.

Also we should back up to the anon I was originally replying to. He didn't say tech demo, he described it as pretty much an open world game. Which is what is shown in the demo, so that led me to believe that it's supposed to be open world. I then commented that there's no direction and then ya'll niggas popped in with "IT'S JUST A TECH DEMO BETA ALPHA THEY'LL FIX IT I PROMISE!"

>>388456098
No. I do remember how stages were all corridors, had terrible controls, terrible collision detection, terrible camera, were buggy as fuck and filled with gimmicks no one liked though. Gamecube toddlers are a bigger blight on this board than any other nostalgiafag.

>>388465606
you are one dumb motherfucker

>>388464605
There's always 2006 fags. Or the people who pretend Adventure was totally different and better than Heroes even though Heroes was just Adventure lite.

Oh you mean the one with 2 shitty characters that got in the way? The one with terrible physics? The one with horrible plastic redesigns?

>>388465606
>So the concept is that you can move the character within a 3d space or what?
Now you are just blatantly being retarded since you yourself posted the answer. The concept is taking the old Sonic 2d style and meshing it in a 3d space. So far, that gameplay has been looking extremely well and is pretty well recieved since it works and is cohesive.

> He didn't say tech demo, he described it as pretty much an open world game
And it will most likely still be in that vein, HOWEVER you are complaining about the level design and "direction" when currently that isn't even their focus NOR is it the focus of the demo. The map is a playground to test the style of gamplay they are attempting to implement, and to get a wide variety of feedback amongst players.

It's a tech demo you mong.

>>388461345
Most of the Adventure team worked on Heroes.

>>388466024
Sorry for being objective about your underwhelming """""demo""""". If you were looking to impress, then show something that's good by itself without you needing to defend it afterwards. If you've ever actually tried to make a game you'd understand that you need to anticipate how players will actually play your game, you do that by playtesting. I get that you just found something random online and it was pretty good, I'm evaluating it as a "real" game, not a fan project. Just because Sonic Mania was great it doesn't make every fan made game good just because it's not made by sonic team.

Heroes sucked cock:
-poor redesign
-bad voice acting
-slippery/shitty physics
-bulletsponge enemies
-annoying/overly gimmicky levels
-forced to swap between 3 characters to even complete a level

>>388466353
And it's not that great, do you want me to give it a gold star and hang it on the refrigerator? It's an interesting concept but I've not seen any of it working so far. I'll try it whenever there's anything new, but I think you are all being way to excited over it.

>>388466498
>objective
nah, you're just clueless
i seriously hope you never make a game of your own

>>388466667
>And it's not that great
And that's you opinion that is perfectly okay to have. Personally I'm loving it so far, but don't go around saying it's not 'intuitive' when they aren't releasing as anything more then a taste of what they are trying to achieve.

Also, like another anon so clearly pointed out; you move forward and go fast, what the fuck is there that you need to learn. My 4 year old nephew could literally pick this up and get right into it with ease.

>>388459213
The problem I see with this is there's no fucking point to any of the ramps and obstacles, they aren't in the way of anything

If you want a fast moving game with a shitload of obstacles and alternate paths and layers you can't really put it in 3d because of a person's reaction time, it'd be disorienting as fuck

>>388466545
Adventure sucked cock:
-poor redesign
-bad voice acting
-slippery/shitty physics
-bulletsponge enemies
-annoying/overly gimmicky playstyles
-forced to play 7 different stories to complete the game

Adventure 2 sucked cock:
-poor redesign
-bad voice acting
-slippery/shitty physics
-bulletsponge enemies
-annoying/overly gimmicky playstyles
-forced to play chao garden to 100% it

Shadow the Hedgehog sucked cock:
-poor redesign
-bad voice acting
-slippery/shitty physics
-bulletsponge enemies
-annoying/overly gimmicky playstyle
-forced to play the game 326 times to get all endings

Sonic the Hedgehog sucked cock:
-poor redesign
-bad voice acting
-slippery/shitty physics
-bulletsponge enemies
-annoying/overly gimmicky playstyles
-forced to play the game at all

>>388467470
>Adventure sucked cock
I stopped reading there.

>>388466545
>>388467470
Yeah, I'd agree with all that

>>388466980
The fun thing about it is you'll never know which game I've made.

>>388467060
Yeah that's totally what I was saying, I was saying that I don't understand that I could move forward, yeah man really.

I don't know how to better redesign Sonic than with the design he has now.

>>388467378
BUT IT'S JUST A TECH DEMO REEEEEE IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED OR ENJOYED

>>388467470

Some of this is blatantly false though. All of Adventure 1/2's enemies die in one hit, and the physics are the opposite of slippery. Try harder.

>>388468226
>and the physics are the opposite of slippery
No one but rabid Adventurefags believe that.

I really hope you aren't bringing up the fucking worst Sonic game (fuck you it's worse than 06, at least that tire fire is bad in a funny way) as an example of "the good ol days."

>>388467651
>Yeah that's totally what I was saying
Let's examine what you said then
>it does nothing within the level design to teach or encourage you to play it the way it's meant
>teaches you to properly play the game without having to read a manual
There's a space bar for jumping, then the movement keys to go fast. These are the core controls for the game, these are how pretty much everything is done. Now you see a world in front of you and you want to explore it right? Go Fast? Well you just hold "W" which is the only key for you to run forward, then hit "A" or "D" to turn while running. Then you hit "Space" to jump onto,off, or away from any obstacles. Any thing else is really unneeded. It's not hard to grasp and doesn't need that much direction or push to understand.

Like I said before, my 4 year old nephew understood immediately what to do, it's not rocket science and people aren't as stupid as you seem to make them out to be.

>>388468372
Adventure 1 and 2 weren't slippery, and I hate the vast majority of those games. The camera could be bad, certain sections were awful even for Sonic, etc etc., but they had some genuine and working physics that could've had better use if the level designs of the two games took better advantage of it all.

Slippery is the last thing i'd call the Adventure Sonics in comparison to games like Heroes.

>>388456098
Heroes sucked, had the shitty PS2 version as a kid and played it in dolphin recently and it still sucks just not as bad as the PS2 version
>>388468226
And yet all the other points still stand

>>388459213
You got speed. Where's the platforming? Where are the complex levels?

>>388468724
TECH DEMO AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

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>>388463123
this anon speaks truth

also fuck adventurefags

>>388468526
It was more aimed to where to go, how and why. I still assumed that this was an example of a level from the potential game, but like you've said it's apparently just nothing so I guess no one is allowed to criticize one of the most integral parts of Sonic games which is the level design. Other than that I can say that the controls feel imprecise, I think they're intended for running but there's alot of platforming present in this truly techest of demos. For example going backwards isn't instantaneous, which doesn't allow for precise movement when jumping etc. I guess I'll just shut up about it until it's a game.

>>388465606
>It's not intuitive, it's not a cohesive experience.
Utopia is both of those things. why don't you go jerk off to more gamasutra blogs you wannabe analysisfaggot

>>388468724
>DUDE TECH DEMO LMAO

but lets not get into whether the "sandbox" elements they put for "make your own path" even function as intended. Git gud doesnt equal make the best of wild ass pinball physics.

>>388467470
>Adventure sucked cock:
>-poor redesign
>-bad voice acting
>-annoying/overly gimmicky playstyles
>-forced to play 7 different stories to complete the game

>Adventure 2 sucked cock:
>-poor redesign
>-bad voice acting
>-forced to play chao garden to 100% it

fixed your terrible opinions. and oh, look at that. way less flaws than heroes.

>>388467470
>>388469678
You are being petty with the redesign.

>>388469609
>analysing games is bad
lmao

>>388469660
>Git gud doesnt equal make the best of wild ass pinball physics.
What wild pinball physics? Did you play Sonic CD and get some sort of everlasting gobstopper in your rage boner or something?

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>>388463123
Underrated as hell, you have a brilliant mind.

>>388464973
>Sonic Utopia's a fangame tech demo demonstrating what they want to do and the gameplay they've created, rather than something you're inherently supposed to be treating as some full game. It's a fleshed out proof of concept basically.

Tell that to all the faggots who keep bringing it up like the second coming of Jesus.

i like what Utopia shows, but until they show how it could handle actual platformer and mroe compelx level design. I won't be fully keen on it.

Boost/Adventure would probably also be much more enjoiyable is the levels were that big and flat, so I want until proven differently Utopia could easily fall apart the moment you bring up more compelx platforming.

>>388469919
Supposedly for the next SAGE contest or whatever, they'll have an actual level presented. God only knows if that's a good or bad thing.

>>388470048
>Supposedly for the next SAGE contest or whatever, they'll have an actual level presented

That's good to hear. I really wanna see how they can implement these physics in something more complex.

My issue is not that Utopia isn't good. Those are great physics. My problems are all those people who bring it up going "THIS IS HOW SONIC 3D SHOULD BE" without taking in consideration that for all its merits, its STILL a Tech Demo.

I bet Adventure, Boost and Lost World controls also felt pretty good when all they had was a plain test room and some small innofensive geometry.

I am geniully hoping to put my foot in my mouth and Utopia being basically what Mania is but for 3D Sonic. But until then, people can't just use it as their ONLY argument of how 3D Sonic should be.

>>388469594
Don't get discouraged anon. These dipshits are part of the group of people ruining games. They don't understand a thing about the subject matter but think it's okay to have opinions anyways.

>>388469795
>analysing a game through second hand experience is bad
>analysing a game out of context is bad
>analysing something you have little to no knowledge of is bad
>>388469594
>For example going backwards isn't instantaneous
thats like admitting you don't want a sonic game to play like a sonic game
the whole point of utopia is to demonstrate how 2D sonic physics could work dynamically in a 3D environment without the need for dumb scripting like the adventure or modern games
how fucking hard is that for you dumb cunts to understand

>>388470579
As someone who loves Modern Sonic with the boost formula, at least off of what Generations gave us, I wouldn't mind seeing Sonic Team give more freeform stage design and control a shot ala Utopia, but as Forces is demonstrating, ST can take any good idea and run it into the mud. Now they're fucking up Boost for a game of pure spectacle without really caring about what makes Sonic.. Sonic.

>>388469809
>CD responsible for pinball physics
that doesnt make sense, S1-Mania all have the same physics, but in 2D level design is constructed to allow slowing down or traversing levels vertically as well.

Besides, I like CD nigga.

>>388470636
>analysing a game through second hand experience is bad
I've played the demo and a game should be analysed on it's own merits, it doesn't matter how many excuses the devs have whether it's Sega or a fan. I've already said that it's pretty good for a fan game, but it's not good compared to good games.
>thats like admitting you don't want a sonic game to play like a sonic game
Played literally all main sonic games and then some I do not remember it taking that long to turn around or move backwards in any of them whether they're 2d or 3d.

Cant wait to replay this on xbox one this fall

>>388471186
I was more so joking at how CD's gimmicky and eccentric level design is more than happy to fling players all over the place compared to Sonic norm and that it may of colored your opinion as a result.

how can anyone old enough to post on 4chan like sonic the hedgehog?

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>>388459213
>utopia

If I wanted a quality 3D fangame, I'd play SRB2.

>>388470767
I still have some hope for Forces but I can see your point.

ST has a huge track record of taking ideas that are good in concept, but end up fucking them up in execution.

My point was simply to say that once/if Utopia becomes more of a game, the staff could also fuck it up somewhere too. Nothing is perfect. Which is my issue with Utopia fans; You can't claim something its 100% perfect when its just a tech demo.

I do think perhaps a little more compelxity in movements could benefit Utopia is they start giving more complexity to it. Let¿s say they do want to make open sandobx-ish (not full sandbox I iamgine) enviroments? Perhaps soemthing'd be neededto be able to take sharper turns in order to go back to a platform or retrieve a ring.

>>388471541
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QELB-O2H8Yk

>>388471325
You're not wrong, even Mania stardust speedway has leftovers of it.

Utopia doesnt "fling" obviously, but a 3D game adds the design challenge of another dimension, you cant just add design features from 2D sonic stretched to 3D and be like "I think we got something here" utopia is obsessed with speed meanwhile you see no "platforming" webms.

>>388471456
Nostalgia

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>>388471656
>in sonic thread because play sonic
>also metroidfag
>see this
Anon you might have just made my fucking day with this.

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>>388471656
>metroid doom on steroids

>>388468372

If you run forward in Adventure 1/2 and then push the control stick left, Sonic turns left instantly.

You are retarded.

>>388472473
So instead of slippery, they're overtly sensitive?

>>388472680
I mean, there is an analog stick for a reason.

>>388471656
the doom engine and its derivaties are a wonderful thing to exist

>>388457884
>Team Dark still takes +20 minutes on some levels
No

>>388473337
>remove Team Dark/make them an optional bonus after beating the game
How about now?

>>388472680

Why wouldn't you want your character to go left when you hit left on the control stick? Every good platformer/action game has sensitive controls. The Sonic Adventure games are very close to Mario 64 control-wise, for example.

Yes, this makes the game harder for casuals to master and lifts both the skill floor and skill ceiling. And again, if you don't want this, then just get out.

>>388473645
>Just remove half of the game's content and call it a day

>>388473645
>>388474162
>Just remove half of the game's content, with no replacements, and call it a day

>>388474162
they're the equivalent of SA2's hard mode missions with padding, and Heroes' """content""" is basically mostly just padding anyway

>>388470579
Utopia is a tech demo with better level design than basically any official 3D sonic game. I don't know how you could play it and not think so. The level design is fine, people are just too fucking dumb to navigate anything other than a mindless corridor these days, jesus

>>388459213
>tfw if you spend time making a furry autism sonic game you are pretty much guaranteed to get hired and the first game you make gets like a 98 on meta critic

its not fucking fair

why do furrys always win

>>388471656
Is it wrong that this looks better than Prime?

>>388475058
Yes.

>>388456098
All this Sonic talk made me realize the only thing I care about are Chao.
Just give me an adventure game about going through interesting levels and collecting Chao ingredients. You don't even need Sonic or his gay little companions.

>>388459213
For a tech demo piece, it is okay, but as for a game itself, as of right now, it is just not there, not by a long shot. Be cool to see what comes of it though.

>>388468724
>>388467378
>>388459968
It's a fucking tech demo.
Just something to show off the controls and gameplay.

Stop being contrarian for the sake of "having refined tastes"

>>388475937
I swear all of you people who just go "tech demo lul, not a real game" haven't played it. Utopia's gameplay is damn near-perfect and they haven't even made a real level for it.

Modern gamers are so damn stupid, no wonder games hold your hand so fucking much if they can't figure out how to get through a 6-minute stage that isn't a hallway.

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>>388460092
You know, they really don't.

>>388475937
>but as for a game itself, as of right now, it is just not there
WELL NO SHIT.
What do you think a "tech demo" is?

>>388473337
>>388473645
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzPqIlVrFig

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>>388459213

Open world Sonic doesn't work.

Sonic level design philosophy operates on a tier system, where the faster paths were harder to stay on but more rewarding and the longer paths were at the bottom for those who failed. Inbetween those two paths were several intersections that would allow you to climb back up (or back down) to the different tiers. Regardless of your skill level, you would eventually get to the goal even as long as you kept pushing forward. This worked great in 2D because you would essentially end up with different layers.

There have been several 3D tech demos that have been presented throughout several years. Sonic Utopia is certainly not the first, nor the best one. It's just the most well presented with all the nostalgia heart strings it pulls. Utopia places you in a sandbox where there's a bunch of ramps and obstacles everywhere. But what's the point in any of them? None of them really lead you to anywhere, and none of them really challenge you to do anything. In fact, avoiding a majority of those set pieces is the fastest possible route. I understand that it's a tech demo and they're just trying to show off the engine, but I've already see this tech demo before. I'm not wowed or impressed by it because it failed to separate itself from the other tech demos with creative level design. It doesn't incorporate the tier level design system of the 2D games into a 3D space in any interesting way. The enjoyment of running around an open space disappeared quickly for me since there's nothing to do but run off ramps. The nostalgic jabs did nothing for me. There wasn't anything really interesting in this playground in the same level of a Tony Hawk Pro Skater game or Jet Set Radio's levels where you're encouraged to make use of the terrain to reach new areas for trick/combo/tagging opportunities. There's just nothing there but shallow fan service.

>>388477159
I didn't even read this post but you're an autist

>>388477159
>Open world Sonic doesn't work.

Utopia isn't open-world, something you'd know if you actually played it.

>Sonic level design philosophy operates on a tier system, where the faster paths were harder to stay on but more rewarding and the longer paths were at the bottom for those who failed. Inbetween those two paths were several intersections that would allow you to climb back up (or back down) to the different tiers. Regardless of your skill level, you would eventually get to the goal even as long as you kept pushing forward. This worked great in 2D because you would essentially end up with different layers.

This is exactly how Utopia works. Middle is the low path, right is the "regular" path, and left is the harder but faster path with more rewards.

>>388477317
So you have literally no basis for thinking so other than an image and seeing two paragraphs.

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>>388457352
>>388463123
It could be just about the size of the New Vegas or Fallout 3 map. It doesn't have to be that big an open world, it just has to have a lot in it, with challenging and complex areas that are satisfying to navigate. Just make all of the major landmarks zone" in their own right, with all the "just run around and look cool like the Sonic CD intro" stuff and "bonuses and secrets that are neat to interact with, find, and explore" stuff in-between them. Make zones big and distinct, fortress-like, with lots of layers, challenges, and platforming complexities. Gameplay should basically be to that Green Hill Utopia tech demo since they zones would also need to be very big, with Lost World's parkour. It would obviously require complex, layered vertical and horizontal level design like the 2D games had. I like the look of Green Hill Utopia, and I'd hope an open world Sonic game would have a similar style.
But you know how the backgrounds in Sonic games are the best aesthetic part of the zones, usually? Now you can go to them. It shouldn't recycle old zones but for example, maybe there's something in Green Hill Zone's lake, or on its mountains. And you can see zones from the outside. It sounds like fun to me. You could find an entrypoint outside the zone, then try to get to its heart.
Maybe you could explore where the animals actually go after freeing them from badniks, too. Do they have a town? Or towns? Do they just scurry around in the wilderness like actual animals? Defeating badniks could just make the world outside "zones" more dense with animals I guess, that'd be neat. Maybe after you clear a "zone" things break down and nature starts to take over again, like the good future version of Sonic CD levels. Then the old busted zones would have altered level design to be more challenging be full of some extra stuff.
I think the hardest part of making all that work would be making the perfect camera for it.

>>388477405
Yep, anyone who takes the time to write out something like that over sonic the hedgehog is a turbo autist by default

>>388477317

The fact that you're in a Sonic thread means you're an autist.

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>>388456098
Remember when they made you play through the same stages 4 times and forced you to play incredibly shitty special stages just to get the last story? I'm glad they got over that.

>>388477534
Good to know your views can be dismissed for being a simple person.

>>388477568
>I'm glad they got over that.

That happened a total of one time

>>388456991
Literally this. The boost formula, with more refined controls for low speed platforming, could be fun as hell to fuck around with in a huge open area.

>>388473201
Eww autism
>>388471656
Sweet.

>>388456098
Yeah, and it was a shit game.

>>388477739
I'd argue Shadow did the same thing, minus the bonus stages. You still had to run through the same stages several times just to get the last ending. It's arguably even worse than heroes because you're always stuck with Shadow and don't even get variation in characters.

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I just want Lost World without the gravity gimmick and simple controls.

>A: Jump, Homing Attack, hold for parkour
>X: Spindash

That's all it needs to be a fun platformer. Hell maybe add other characters such as Knuckles that replaces the parkour for climbing so autists don't have anything to complain about.

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>>388478659

Lost World with SRB2 autistic tier level design when?

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So is Project AXSX cancelled? I haven't seen anything about it in like 3 or 4 years.

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>>388479061

>Posted Today, 01:27 PM

>Thx man !

>As a treat here's a screen from the now abandoned udk build. The level is named Run25 that was recreated from the original beta/alpha data found in RSRC20 folder. (The red and green lines were used for debugging purposes in udk.

>Of course the same level is already in Unreal 4 and looks the same except the lighting has been updated, and the background curvature is handled with a different shader method closer resembling the original game.

>>388479061
>>388479202

Why in god's name would anyone want to remake a game that was fundamentally flawed conceptually from the beginning?

>>388479202
Nice.

>>388479259
>Why do people like things I don't like?

>>388479259
I keep asking myself that every time I see a new Adventure-like project show up.

Also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a0vbDboZuM

>>388461345
I'll have you know that I am one of those "underage babies whose opinions are to be disregarded". I was five years old and I played Sonic Heroes on the gamecube in front of a CRT tv on a nightstand in a two door closet. Who are you again, motherfucker? Who gave you permission to even THINK that your opinion existed, let alone MATTERED? No, I am not a Sonic fan, and I never will be, because unlike you, I prefer games that don't suck release after release. So why don't you go fuck yourself, newfag, and eat a dick?

>>388467470
>-bulletsponge enemies
Yeah nah. This was a Heroes exclusive flaw you can't just apply it to other games.

>>388479659
>No, I am not a Sonic fan, and I never will be, because unlike you, I prefer games that don't suck release after release.
Bet you love 3D Zelda and TP is your favorite.

>>388475058
Yes. That is wrong.

>>388479529
Is this what I'm seeing here? Someone actually fucking REMADE Sonic 06 from scratch but functional? WHat the fuck.

Even if he has awful taste in games to remake SEGA needs to hire this guy as their "we rushed the game and we need someone to fucking fix it"-guy

>>388479927
You want to know what my favorite oldschool RPG is? Phantasy Star. Nintendo and SEGA games just get BLACKED in this day and age. How will they ever compete?

>>388479529
fixing the dumpster fire that is the gameplay is a start, but the main reason '06 sucked was the abysmal story and voice acting.

>>388477642
Good to know you choose to engage a dude calling you a autist and no the guy who actually told your ass off.

>>388480686
>the main reason '06 sucked was the abysmal story and voice acting
Nah the main reason is cos the gameplay sucked dick and the engine was unfinished. Fixing the story wouldn't make the game itself any better, it'd just make it less meme-worthy

>>388480879
I'm not the one who posted it. I'm just capable of reading something longer than two sentences before the strain makes me shout "autism".

>>388480686
>but the main reason '06 sucked was the abysmal story and voice acting.
>caring about the story in a fucking sonic game
>implying the voice acting direction is one of the game's main problems at all
the whole thing is busted: glitches out of the ass, big ass empty maps while moving as a fucking torsoise even as sonic, a shitty jump combined with a shitty range for the homing attack, the whole UGLY realistic human designs (except sonicman, that dude's cool and hilarious) contrasting with the cartoony style of sonic and his gang, the fucking unoptimized loading times (half minute loading for a fucking 10 seconds mission in the same fucking area)
the only reason i would ever try to play it again it would be to break the game with sonic's gems, or to reach the skybox with that metal crate in the modern area of soleana

>Heroes
>bad voice acting

Go fuck yourselves, you worthless consumer models.
Omega was the best thing about that game

Was Heroes really the only 3D Sonic game with Special Stages? That's fucking bizarre when I think about it.

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I wish Sonic Mania had more special stages. Those are way more fun than blue spheres.

>>388482479
The voice acting was still shit, though.

>>388482479
For me it's not so much the "bad voice acting" as it is "bad use of voice acting". I find that the characters talking every 15 seconds in-game is incredibly obnoxious, especially when they quite often point out and talk about incredibly obvious game mechanics that you should be able to work out yourself. Show, don't tell. Plus they would often repeat themselves, and if you died in a level you'd find yourself listening to their garbage all over again.

And don't even get me started on that VA for Tails

>>388482994
Does 3D Blast count?

>>388456098
>one gameplay style
>game outright says different formations

how about you go in the corner

>>388482994
I think it would have been cool if Sonic Unleashed got some special stages just picture it...Sonic levels would be at night racing against the timer like the Dark Gaia on foot sections, and Werehog levels would be in the day with waves of enemies or hard as fuck platforming like empire city. Just the inverse of the games normal structure

>>388483707
No.

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>>388482479
This guy gets it.