Just finished this today (Chaos route). Why do people consider

>>388352041
>chaos

Heretic scum.

Because 4 has no dungeons and its easier I guess

>>388352041
Dungeon design is total garbage in IV and the atmosphere isn't as good. That said, the best SMT is Strange Journey.

>>388352041
all the locations are the same

>>388352197
>no dungeons
Naruku, Ichigaya, Midtown and Purgatorium are all dungeons.

>>388352041
>smirk
>shit difficulty balancing
>still stuck with Neutral route lock gives more content compared to other routes like most of the series
>shit dungeons

>combat system is the same shit but with the unfortunate addition of Smirk which literally ruins the game and wasn't fixed until the vastly superior 4A
>does everything in its power to prevent you from getting the only satisfying ending in the game (neutral)
>STR is a useless stat and DEX is ridiculously powerful
>overworld map is an incomprehensible mess in comparison to the rest of the series
>factions and characters are some of the most braindead in SMT, with the worst of it being LOL LAW EATS BRAINS GUYS LOL ARENT THEY THE WORST
>dungeons are the absolute worst in the series and may as well not exist, making SMT4 objectively the worst SMT

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>>388352041
Nocturne difficulty curve is even worse.
The only highlights are poorly balanced out of order bosses added in maniacs and one boss with bugged AI.

>>388353012
>making SMT4 objectively the worst SMT
That's if friendo

>>388353061
I'm playing through nocturne now and the balancing is way better. In smt iv the game starts really hard and then gets way easier which is the opposite of how a game should be balanced. Nocturne has a steady increase in difficulty with each boss and area.

>>388353298
IV early difficulty is a meme.
It last for the first few minutes during collecting your first party.

>>388353012
Strength is actually really good if you combine it with Charge and Tarukaja. I was one shotting entire mobs by the late game with strength.

>>388354025
It isn't since it's broken and doesn't provide you the majority of its intended benefits.
It boggles my mind they didn't bother to patch it after releasing Final which started as a fixed rerelease of IV anyway.

>>388352041
>>deeper combat system
heh

>>388353182
If what

>>388356060
If it gets fan translation.

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>>388352041
The dungeons are shit, hit or miss designs, it has a lot of boring stretches, the overworld is shit and Smirk being completely unbalanced are the main problems with it. Some people also prefer the setting and/or atmosphere of Nocturne. I would probably say I prefer Nocturne on the whole but neither of them are objectively better than the other, they both have their good points and their bad points. I also really dislike the whole thing with Charon in IV.

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>>388356824
>the dungeons are not complicated enough
>the overworld is too complicated
Every single time.

>>388357280
I don't get the complaints about the overworld. I never got lost, and I get lost easily.

>>388357329
Apparently, exploring Tokyo offers way too much freedom for an average jrpg consumer these days.
People need a giant red flag telling them where to go next.

>>388357782
There isn't even that much exploration. There aren't many ways to go except forward.

>>388357782
Thats exactly what DQ11 does too, its awful.

>>388357329
You should have no issue of you just look at the roads on the map.

The reason I'm betting so many people got lost is that the camera changes position after random battles, so that may have thrown some people off.

Despite releasing a decade after Nocturne on a newer console IV managed to look worse and has a less strinking artstyle

Its core gameplay and OST are great but the story and characters are whatever and having 400+ demons to fuse meant nothing with a game that much unbalanced where every demon can learn everything

Didn't play IV:A yet but seeing those characters returing doesn't make me interested

>>388357280
I never really cared about dungeons.

I play SMT for the combat and alignments, getting lost in a dungeon filled with shitty teleporters and pressing switches to open gates always felt like a buffer to that. The combat (specifically the boss fights) is where the real challenge lies.

>>388358216
It's Nocturne's financial failure that pushed mainline to handhelds, though.
IV duology rebuilt Atlus trust in mainline so V is coming back to home consoles (unless it's a Switch exclusive in which case we're back to square one).
Kaneko being a lazy cunt and not designing characters anymore doesn't help either.

>>388352041
>doesn't attempt to pigeonhole you into making a STR build
Probably because STR is a near-useless stat in IV that they only fixed in Final/Apoc.

>>388352873
And Pluto's castle. Among other places.

>>388358783
It will be perfectly fine on switch don be dumb
And kaneko has a worse case of sameface than akira toriyama no idea why he is so liked

>>388357280
The overworld isn't that comlicated, the problem is that the game will say things like go to the colosseum or go to Ikebukuro, but I don't know where that is. They give you vague directions sometimes, but sometimes it's entirely on you to figure it out and fighting low level fodder while having a needlessly difficult time to figure out where you're going is just annoying.

>>388352041
Its a lot easier
Good thing Apocalypse fixes that

>>388358216
>a "newer" console

The 3DS still uses parts from 2003.

>>388359782
It's still got the old GBA CPU core buried in its SoC.

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>People still complaining about IV's map

YHVH help you if you play SMTII without a guide.

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>>388361916
But SMT started with 3.
Just like Persona.
Proper remakes never ever. Fuck SJ for getting the priority.

>>388362292
Remakes? Ill be satisfied with a port that is not on a fucking phone.

Who was best boy in IV and why was it Mastema?

>>388352041
>deeper combat system
Maybe if you cripple yourself
>doesn't attempt to pigeonhole you into making a STR build
Magic is still really good in Nocturne, you can get heavy force damage pretty early on. STR in SMT4 is way worse than Magic in SMT3.

>>388361916
SMT2 is unplayable without constantly going to a hint corner because the game hardly tells you where to go, and sometimes doesn't at all. There's points where the hints don't even tell you where to go at all. So either wander around the map for hours or use a guide. Stop acting like this shit is some hardcore coolguy game design.

>>388363048
was more referring to the fact that they lock one of the Magatama behind a high strength check.

Also, don't forget that Lucifer is almost impossible to beat without Pierce.

>>388363291
>Stop acting like this shit is some hardcore coolguy game design.

I didn't mean it like that. All I was saying is that IV's map isn't that bad compared to other shit.

>>388363803
I'm sorry nigga, i'm fresh off getting mad at SMT2's map and liking almost everything else about it.

>>388363048
Physical builds in IV are Dex based if you really want to draw parallels.

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>>388363041
How can Mastema be best if he isn't completely right?

>>388361916
>SMTII
>Not I
I rarely used a guide man, overworld was pretty simple, only weird things was Ishtar, Eden's password and a few of the pillars. Had a hint system too.

>>388365062
Wait I forgot Masakado's fetch quest as a negative. Fuck that one the most.
Wait fuck, i forgot the negative that is backtracking in general, not hard to navigate, but a pain in the arse to go places late in the game due to poor terminal placement
You know

>>388364563
>implying
Mastema, Kenji and Lilith all did nothing wrong.

The White however, are the only people in the game that I can say did everything wrong.

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>>388365062
Both are absolute clusterfucks that despite having a story and overall setting that deserve to be experienced by more people, are held back by core gameplay that aged like milk.

Because the difficulty drops below the ground after medusa. The dungeons are also trash while they're great in nocturne

>>388352041
Playing through the game without using a route guide, did i fuck up?

>>388365312
I bet you think black & white movies "aged like milk"

>>388365763
yes just keep playing anyway

>>388365763
only if you want to be neutral

unless you're really close to the end and have been pumping all one alignment you can just check what you need to pick to fix yourself

I love this game. The soundtrack's my favorite in all of videogames.

>>388365763
The game's still pretty enjoyable regardless of what ending you get.

>>388365806
It's not about visuals, you dingus.
Readability and interface in those games are shit and were already whole generation behind the acceptable standards when those games came out.

>>388365312
I think 2's more playable with the exception of backtracking, shit's less vague for the most part and a bit more balanced.

>>388365763
Depends if you're going for a specific route.

Just remember the following:
Jonathan= Law
Walter= Chaos
Isebeau= Neutral

Law and Chaos are easy to get because you just need to agree with the person who represents the alignment at key moments. You can also make some Chaos descisions while going for the Law alignment and vice versa, so you don't need to worry about it too much.

Getting neutral is a bitch since you have to have a roughly 50/50 split of Law/Chaos decisions.

>>388365312
I don't think it's even about age, I think they're just straight-up bad in many regards, at least SMT1 is like that, I haven't played 2 yet. There's still some great things about the game, but a lot it is bad today and it seems to me like the kind of thing which would be bad 25 years ago as well.

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>>388352985
smirk might be shit but the overall idea is hilarious and i like it
>you find the enemy's weakness
>you do a shit eating grin so strong it makes the enemy miss

>>388365763
If you are before the Jonathan/Walter split and attack on Ichigaya, you can check in-game by talking to a guy at any Hunter Association bar, and he'll tell you your alignment.

"A very polite man" = Law
"Hard to get a read on" = Neutral
"A real hothead" = Chaos.

If you are one or the other after the split, I recommend partaking in the Hunter Tournaments and either killing(Chaos) or sparing(Law) all your opponents to even things out. Check back with him, and if it still isn't right than you'll just have to wing it.

Also, keep in mind that there you must complete certain side quests to get the neutral route, and if you open the gate to the Expanse before completing them all you will be locked out of the Neutral route.

If you plan on playing Apocalypse, I recommend trying hard to get the neutral route, as Apocalypse(sort of) runs congruent to it.

>>388367124
It's great in IV:A. Hope it comes back in the new one and all the new models can have their own smirking animations.

>>388367239
the problem is the final choice gives +/-10 with no neutral option, so if you're neutral when you do it you'll be pushed out of the threshold (+/-8) you simply can't go neutral

>>388356356
WHERE IS IT GIDEON?
ANSWER ME
SCHOOL OF THE UNTRANSLATED OF THE EAST

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>>388356356
Yeah, but if what?

>>388367607
Yeah, you just gotta be careful. I got the Neutral Ending my first time through just by thinking reeeaaaal hard about every decision and keeping track the best I could.

>>388367124
I like smirk honestly. It makes fights much more interesting. As for the whole "assists making enemies smirk" thing, I was never fucked over by it outside of that side quest where you have to kill Asura.

>>388352041
My issue is that the difficulty is fucked. Naraku is ridiculous and everything afterwards is a joke. Nocturne got a bit too easy at the end but at least there were difficulty spikes here and there along the way. There were moments where you had to pay attention.

Strange Journey does the difficulty best in my opinion. The difficulty continuously ramps up until the final boss which is fucking ridiculous. Honestly there's nothing wrong with the final boss being the hardest part of the game, it makes sense and makes the ending that much more memorable.

>>388352041
I dunno but I've preferred IV to most other SMT games since I first played it.

Apocalypse is almost as good.

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>>388361916
>>388363291
>>388365062
>>388365312
>>388365806
>>388366219
People, people, please. We all know what SMT aged the worst.

>>388352197
IV does a better job of integrating its dungeons in to the world. See those cityscapes you traverse? That's your dungeons.

>>388367124
That's one thing I love about IV. Because it's sprite based, you get to mentally picture every battle.

And nearly every time, Flynn is an overconfident and smug little shit

>>388362292
Is that Odin? Source plz

>>388368832
SMT for Switch

>>388352197
It does have dungeons but it has way too many of those copypaste dominions which are just boring to "explore".

>>388368832
Why have you skipped Apocalypse?
Fix that.

Just finished this game as well, going to start Apocalypse. Is there anything I should know before going in? Is it harder/easier? Any major changes that will affect someone that spent 175 hours in SMT4?

>>388367653
Also known as Shin Megami Tensei Fates in the West.

>>388352041

>doesn't attempt to pigeonhole you into making a STR build

STR build is literally inferior to DEX, so it effectively kills that build entirely.

>>388369053
easier throughout, with a few spikes on certain bosses

Every change is pretty obvious (except STR actually works now) and much better

>>388352041
/v/ considers Nocturne is more "pure" somehow despite lacking the ability for the mc to equip swords or guns.

>>388369053
I don't think it's any easier or harder than IV, but it is inarguably better balanced.

>>388369053
Strength works in Apocalypse
Except for very early in the game and one part much, much later, you can't get a game over like in 4 but you don't have to pay a dumb fee either
Smirk is different, you don't get evasion out the ass if you're smirking, instead you don't take extra damage from weaknesses. It goes away after a few turns of not attacking or if you get inflicted with a status, as well as Magaon removing Smirk

guys
i think i fucked up my smt iv stats, i just entered tokyo so it's not to late
what do

>>388369262
Why would you need swords or guns when you can just punch shit

>>388369503
You can't fuck up your stats, especially since you get Incenses out the ass throughout the game.

>>388369613
What do i invest in, then?
Also i heard that STR is pointless because DX is STR but better, is that true?

>>388369686
Yes, STR mainly increases the damage of your basic physical attack, DEX increases your Gun and Physical skill damage more than STR does

>>388369686
strength only affects your default regular attack that doesn't cost anything

dex is in charge of actual phys skills, aka the shit that actually matters

dex also affects all gun damage too so if you're using either you need dex

>>388368452
Every MC in SMT (and probably in any RPG with a silent protag) is a god damn boss

>>388369686
I'm OP and I got through the game with a pure STR, AG, LU build.

That said, STR won't get you far without attack buffs and defense debuffs. DEX is good because you can buy different ammo types that inflict elemental damage, but you can live without it if you really want to.

Your skills and demons matter more than your stats, so don't worry too much. My advice for stats however would be to choose three skills and evenly distribute points across all three of them. I was sitting at 134 strength at the end game and I could one shot almost standard encounter.

Why is finally reaching -dyne skills so satisfying no matter how many times in how many games you play?

The damage difference is always so huge you just feel like you can kill everything

>>388369148
You clever little nigger

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>>388368452
>Walter swinging his lightsaber and shooting fireballs wildly in Minotaur's general direction

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Are you going to buy her game, /v/?

>>388370621
I'm going to play the Japanese version as soon as it comes out. I can barely read a couple dozen kanji

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>>388370621
No, I'm buying his game

>>388370254
Should i just dump all incenses into flynn? Or should i boost my demons?

>>388371125
Flynn always
unless you REALLY need that hp/mp heal

>>388371125
obviously flynn, no demon will remain useful long enough to bother with a few measly +1 boosts, especially since base level affects damage

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>mfw I fuse an Arahabaki with Tetrakarn and get a Queen Mab with Makakarn

It was at that moment that I basically broke the game.

>>388372825
when you have either skill the game is already over anyway

dantalian is a level 30ish demon and learns both, and you can get him before medusa

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>>388372825
>>388373005
They're pretty busted in every game honestly.

>>388369576
Because in the previous games, you could use different guns to hit different types of enemies in different ways. 3 deviated from this, while 4 kept to the series original design for equipment.

Magatama is not equipment, it's materia.

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>>388372825
>IV:A
>every late game bosses have Pierce, Will buff or Almighty skills

>>388368907
Thanks

>>388372825
>what is Kukunochi
By the end of the game barely anything aside from Red Rider and the DLC bosses could even hurt me. I don't think SMTIV is too unbalanced generally speaking, but god damn is it easy to break if you are decent at fusion.

My final team was a DEX/STR Shiva, a MAG Metatron, and a support Vishnu. I was a god.

Who is stronger, Gabriel or Red Rider?

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Who /White/ here?

>>388352041

nocturne is harder
nocturne is prettier
nocturne has better dungeon design
nocturne is more novel since for many people it was their first SMT game played where this came after like a billion of nocturne spinoffs that all played the same
nocturne featured dante from the devil may cry series!

>>388375482

oh yeah i should have added

nocturne mantra are more interessing than the "SJW cuck" "centrist who support nazi" "nazi" shit it's all in the other SMT game

>>388375601
>"SJW cuck" "centrist who support nazi" "nazi" shit it's all in the other SMT game
Is this what happens when you overdose on memes?

>>388375741
memes and incenses

>>388375482
Right on all accounts. But IV is still an amazing journey. I love all mainline games equally anyway, they all got their strong points

>>388375339
They're equally as retarded as Imasu from Nocturne.

You can't define or even perceive bliss if you don't actually exist.

>>388375601
>"SJW cuck" "centrist who support nazi" "nazi"
Doesn't school start soon? Isn't there a new JonTron up? Go indulge your memes there.

>>388353298
>better balanced
Matador is literally stronger than Thor. It's just poor balance, not "smart skill check".

>>388375938
The last time I played Nocturne was in 2015. I had just beaten that pitch-black tunnel where you fight the three -ki oni. How far am I? Is it worth going back to where I stopped, or should I restart?

I think Nocturne is super fun and cool, but god damn the pace is slower than retard on test day.

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>>388368284
>Whitewashing Mark
THE NERVE

>>388377482
I thought the fiends were optional bosses?

>>388373276
How do I beat this fucker? I'm playing on Hard and I somehow managed to get to his 2nd form but I get decimated afterwards. Also, I'm going edgy route.

>>388358216
>worse characters
Are you fucking kidding me? Nocturne easily has the worst plot and the worst characters in the series. It has none.

>>388377671
Every fiend but Matador.

>>388375339
Why did the White take the form of K, Hugo, Issachar and Isabeau? Was it ever explained?

>>388377559
You're around two thirds in I think, so yeah, pretty far. If you don't think you can handle replaying 30 ish hours of gameplay then just keep from there. It's not like the game has much of a plot to care about anyway. Just remember to finish the Amala Labyrinth

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>>388373276
>every late game bosses have Pierce
>So do you
>goes through reflect

>>388377710
the second form is the easier one

he's weak light or dark, depending on which attack he last used

>>388377710
Have light or dark skills at your disposal for when he changes his weakness.
Luster Candy/Debilitate once to make him waste press turns on Dekunda/Dekaja.
Having a dedicated healer is with mediarama+pleroma or mediarahan is also really useful.

>>388377814
I think it was just important people that Flynn, Jonathan, and Walter knew. People who were in their subconscious.

>>388377814
They take the form of people Flynn knows to try and get him on their side.

>>388377832
Got it. I also fought Matador, Daisoujou, and Hell Biker. Did I miss anyone? I want to try to get TDE.

>>388378082
four riders and mother harlot

>>388378082
You missed the 4 riders I think. I can tell you where they are but you should probably have fun and find them yourself in the other dungeons

>>388378182
>other dungeons
older dungeons

>>388378082
Riders and Mother Harlot.
Make sure you progress through the Fifth Kalpa and meet with the old man in the wheelchair before progressing to the Tower of Kagutsuchi (final area, just after the Diet Building) otherwise you'll get locked out of TDE and get a shitty Reason ending.

>>388352197
The fuck do people mean when they say this, every place that isn't a station is pretty much a dungeon you go through

>>388353298
>Nocturne has a steady increase in difficulty with each boss and area
The only hard boss in Noc is Matador since you don't have access to lots of different buffs. Every boss after him is a joke.

>>388378781
I'd say they're only a joke if you abuse the shit out Tetra/Makarakarn, and that trick only comes after like playing 3 games

>>388370621

>Waifuing anyone other than Horkos or Ouroboros

Get ye gone!

>>388378856
Daisoujou makes most of the game after you fuse him into a joke too.

SMT IV is a really good game, it was my first SMT game that i seriously played.

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>>388372825
Arahabaki is already busted in IV vanilla due to how easy it was to transfer Nulls and Drains. You build him right and nothing but Almighty can touch him.

>>388379498
Oh yeah I actively avoided fusing him because of that

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Nocturne's final boss might be the easiest one in the series, even Soul Hackers' boss gave me more trouble

>>388352041
All the 3 main routes in SMT IV suck.
Law/Chaos routes have almost identical outcomes with half the population killed and Isabeau dead as well. Probably a horseshoe theory thing.
Neutral has you do every single side quest to progress the plot which was tedious as hell, then rushes the ending with the dome lifted, and Tokyo Goddess's power restored. It felt like it needed an epilogue or final boss to wrap things up.

>>388380113
Kagutsuchi? Maybe
Lucifer? Hell no, I literally beat IV with an unprepared, unhealed party at level 74, Lucifer took me a while

>>388380527
I mean Kagutsuchi/disco ball

>>388380736
Well, it's not really the final boss. But yeah it's not a tough fight really

>>388353979
Fuuuck off. It's hard until you start getting massive EXP in Tokyo. In Naraku you have weak stats, weak armor, limited items, and limited money. Getting ambushed usually means game over, missing a hit can also mean game over

>>388378182
Thanks, I think I will. When I started Nocturne P3 and P4 were the only other SMT games I had played, so I think I wasn't used to the slow pace and methodical fusion you need in mainline games. Now that I know what I am doing I think I'll have more fun.

Is Red Rider as hard in Nocturne as he is in IV?

>>388380295
Still haven't beaten IV because I'm at the very end where you need to finish all those side quests

>>388352041
IV had some wonderful and frustration-reducing improvements, but Nocturne is still more aesthetic and metal.

Being on the 3DS, and having just as little budget for 3d modeling, doesn't really help.

Don't get me wrong, I love IV.
FINAL is garbage.

>navigating Tokyo is impossible
>random encounters in Tokyo make it 20x more irritating
>boss smirking means game over
>DEX is objectively better than STR in ever way
>Persona tier domains
>Walter using Agi on Minotaur
>WELCOME TO THE CATHEDRAL OF SHADOWS
>random difficulty spikes
Naraku was promising but the only thing it did better than Nocturne was letting you pick skills for fusions

>>388382369
No idea fuck IV fiends lol I'll get down to that eventually

>>388382921
Most of the fiends in IV are pretty easy, but for some fucking reason they made Red Rider goddamn near impossible to beat unless you have a team of ungodly strong demons.

He is worth it though because every time you beat him he drops 10 of each incense.

>>388382910
>navigating Tokyo is impossible
Scrubs like you are why they straight up added quest markers in IV:A. Each section of the map only has a couple of towns/demon domains and every area has a terminal, so how the fuck do you get lost?