Game Flops

>>388338210
>but there are teams of artists, animators, coders, engine technicians and playtesters who actually made the game, and its their creation that ends up getting ripped to shit.

They're adults anon. They will be just fine, plus they got paid already.

And no, i don't feel bad at all. It's just a business. Businesses fail every day.

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Not really, make shitty games, get shitty prizes. I don't feel personal animosity towards the staff behind the game, though at the same time they shouldn't expect someone to kiss their boo-boos and say

>everything is going be okay big boy

These people will still get paid at the end of the day and continue to work in some capacity in the industry unless they do things like air out their personal problems on twitter or otherwise.

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>>388338210
Is this just for me, or is LB a top google result for "steam stats" for everyone?

>>388338210
Thing is LawBreakers is getting bloody fantastic reviews, because the game is really pretty good. Not flawless by any means, but easily the best shooter out there right now.

Team are mostly just frustrated at the marketing, I imagine. I wonder how much hand Nexon had in it.

I fired up the game in its beta thing before it launched to try out characters, and it seemed a bit too limited in characters to me (8 per side, basically mirrored for each side) though I take it that they wanted closer to the TF2 style each character being a full archetype. Seemed decent but not interesting enough for me to buy and try playing.

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>>388338210
I'm only upset because the core foundation of the game is good. The studio did this to themselves. They didn't engage streamers & youtube people to promote their game enough. Instead they used full page banner ads n shit on game blog review sites (which most gamers just don't visit anymore).

They also ignored ALL criticisms and bug reports from the alpha A FULL YEAR AGO up until the last minute beta. They refused to implement systems to punish quitters. They refused to balance points for people who backfill (so they don't automatically get stuck with a C for joining late or joining a failing team). They refused to address the rampant quitting and stat padding problems (which could have been solved by removing the KDA from the scoreboard and pairing quitters with quitters in matches).

Just a ton of quality of life shit players come to expect in a game was missing. And they charged 30 bux and hid the 3 skins (with multiple pallet swaps) behind a gambling system.

The "Skilled As Fuck" ad campaign also was a huge turnoff. Almost made me not want to buy the game (and I'm a huge fan of the core game).

I ended up returning it because even speaking directly with those faggots in their discord they refused to address those core problems, and it drove off 2,000 of their 2500 player base because of it.

Simply put, it is their own damn fault. It isn't like Nexon didn't have the money to make it happen.

>>388340814
>LawBreakers is getting bloody fantastic reviews

So did Skyward Sword, Bioshock Infinite, and DmC, only a fool thinks reviews mean anything.

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>>388338210
I don't feel bad for this flopping.
It was a forced diversity shit show.

>>388341035
There's two more planned for 11 classes.
That's plenty considering it's an arena shooter and they're all sort of equivalent. They're not built to compliment each other.

>>388341253
Yeah also this. It didn't help that all the characters were HIDEOUS too and they had transgender restrooms on the maps

>>388341253
No, it wasn't. Plenty of valid criticisms of this game, but "DIVERSITY" isn't one of them. The game would not be any better if the cast was all white or all men, and I mean that as literally as possible.

>>388338210
>anticipated game
>lawbreakers

?

>>388341408
It didn't strike me as being an arena shooter. It's team based and each class has specific mechanics. Basically how Team Fortress 2 and Overwatch (mainly Overwatch) work.

Arena shooter would be like Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament.

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>>388341461
There's precisely one class that looks like this. And fair game on that, it's revolting. But there's 16 characters and the others are fine.

>>388341605
Did you actually play it? It's nothing like either of those games. Yes, there's classes, just to support different playstyles. They're all on a mostly even combat footing, there's no concept of "team composition"

>>388341490
You are right but what I ment was that when they
make diversity forced and just for the sake of it,
usually shows that they have no clue what the fuck they are doing.
If you make a character black just to be black what is the point?
If you can't put the person before the color than its bad character design.

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If the smug dickhead that fronts the company wouldnt virtue signal I would be more inclined to buy or even look at the game. Its really a shame especially when the rest of the team manages to stay professional.

>>388341734
No I didn't play it. Just tried out some characters to see what abilities they had, and there seemed to be essentially "roles" (DPS, healer, person with shield/tanky, etc), so figured it worked the same. I have zero real interest in the game so never bothered actually playing.

>>388341913
It was the furthest thing from forced. You're right, when they make a song and dance about it, that's awful. But character background wasn't any part of the advertising or anything. They're literally just models to fill the hitboxes, and given the grungey aesthetic of the game, it'd be just odd if they were all white men.

It's not a great aesthetic, but that's subjective; I don't think there's any point criticizing skin colour given that's the choice they made.

>>388341913
>usually shows that they have no clue what the fuck they are doing.
You seem to be under the impression that the developer is one person. Usually this is just one of the designers that thinks this is a good idea, who tells the artist to make the new skin. The artist doesn't care because they get paid for whatever.

>>388338210
Kinda, I feel disappointed at the fact that a team of like 50-100 people spent years of their life creating this one product, they're putting it into one package for $60 and then people like me take one glance at it and decide it's not worth my money. Makes me sad but I still wouldn't buy Lawbreakers.

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>>388338210
>Does anyone else ever feel slightly bad when an anticipated game completely flops?

Varies.
I'm more annoyed when a game might flop or get flak for the wrong reasons.

For example Mafia 3 got flak from ignorant people for being some SJW game when there's nothing SJW about it.
Also the main problem with that game was the mid-game pacing problems, apart from that it was very much a Mafia game with some great acting, solid writing and story.

>>388341734
>There's precisely one class that looks like this. And fair game on that, it's revolting. But there's 16 characters and the others are fine.
What? All the characters are hideous. Especially the harrier class. Who ever heard of a black pilot

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>>388341490
There are two types of diversity. "Diversity" and regular diversity which has existed since the 80's.

>>388341913
>You are right but what I ment was that when they
>make diversity forced and just for the sake of it,

Just because Cliffy B made posts about trans toilets doesn't make it a SJW or forced diversity agenda game, anon.

Really, if a game you really looked forward to had one of the devs take pride in there being a black guy in the game would you get triggered hard, call it SJW shit show and boycott it?
Grow up.

The main problem with the game was how fucking bland it was.

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I'm a tools programmer for star citizen and part of me doesn't really care if the game dies because it's way too ambitious and is led by an egotist, but the other part of me wants it to do well just because I like my job and don't want to lose it. Things like the embarrassment of a demo that was shown at gamescom yesterday make me worried.

>>388342610
Apart from being ugly, what's wrong with Jax's daughter?

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>>388342153
All the characters are dangerous as hell in their own circumstances. The tanky ones are only tanky to make up for their lower mobility, e.g. the Titan can only really move around with rocket jumps. The battle medic is just a guy with a jetpack and a grenade launcher most of the time. Victory is always more about skill than class makeup.

>>388342562
C'mon now, she's hardly THAT bad. The male battle medic is worse.

>>388342167
No it was forced. Cliff is a complete lefty.
Has tons of lefty twitter garbage. Its the same
andromeda. The racist dev on that game forcing diversity and making it literally impossible to make a white character.
If a game has forced diversity like in this game and forced trans pandering than its going to be trash as it shows that the devs are complete retards.

>>388343071
>trans pandering

What part of the game apart from a fucking background sign "panders" to trans?

>>388342314
I understand its not everyone.
It just takes one asshole who has to much say in the development of the game to ruin it.
Just look for forced diversity in a game. If it has it, its trash.

I just think about all those devs and artists getting paid $5 above minimum wage with no breaks and labor benefits, and getting laid off right after, and then they kill themselves.

Seriously though, I have no idea why people waste their time getting jobs in this industry, it's harsh and unforgiving.

Why do they keep trying to make an Overwatch killer? It won't work while OW is still really popular, Overwatch only killed TF2 because TF2 was old as fuck.

>>388341051

yea, im in their discord too

i tried to explain to them how the skilled AF marketing was going to make them lose players, because 95% of people see this and say "this isnt' for me"

compare to overwatch (sorry) where it's a "Here's cool characters, who used to do cool stuff, kind of retired, but they're coming back, and they want YOU with them" thing...taglines are "THE WORLD NEEDS HEROES" "ARE YOU WITH US?" - much more approachable to the average guy, even if the actual game is dogshit.

>>388341605
>>388341408

it's not an arena shooter, but it has "arena shooter DNA" if you ask cliff.

the way I see it is, it's overwatch with a higher skill ceiling and lower skill floor - aim actually matters, individual skill kind of matters, every class can beat any other class if they outplay them, there's no instant-wins, etc...

but it's still a hero shooter, just a less shitty one.

comp tf2 6v6 still shits all over LB.

>>388343241
>Seriously though, I have no idea why people waste their time getting jobs in this industry, it's harsh and unforgiving.

Some people are passionate and want to work with the things they love. I'd say that is far more admirable than being your average wage slave at a job you couldn't give 2 shits about.

>>388343071

most potential customers don't even look at a dev's twitter, dude.

i agree w/ you that the pandering is dogshit but again, compare to overwatch, who panders to EVERYONE and there's a char for EVERYONE vs LB which is like...edgy criminal vs edgy cop, cursing and blood everywhere fors "mature audiences" to enjoy again according to cliff

>>388338210

I don't feel bad because it's usually very evident where they went wrong. In this case the market is saturated and Lawbreakers is creatively bankrupt so it'll be hard to justify any asking price for it, especially when it was originally supposed to be F2P in the first place.

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>>388342986
She's hideous. I don't want to play as an animal. I want to play as a human.

The only people who play twitch arena shooters are white men. And white men are the most targeted class in America. I don't need my video games virtue signaling and calling me a sexist too. I use games to get away from the guilt society piles on us 24/7

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>>388343262
Its called shitty marketing. They failed to differentiate themselves from Overwatch so they obviously fell for the 'its a shitty Overwatch clone!" meme regardless of how good the game actually is

Kinda like Battleborn

>>388343432
>I don't feel bad because it's usually very evident where they went wrong. In this case the market is saturated and Lawbreakers is creatively bankrupt so it'll be hard to justify any asking price for it, especially when it was originally supposed to be F2P in the first place.

You seem to think that the team has a whole has a big impact on how a game turns out.
It's mostly the director, lead game designer, lead art director and the producer that has a say in what a game will be like.

If you signed on as a programmer for the next entry in your favorite franchise and you work really hard but the people in charge design a trainwreck the fault doesn't like with you. People still worked hard on the game to make it the best game they could.

>>388342696
Why would I care about a black guy being in a game?
Cliff is a full blown SJW
He make the game have "diversity" just because. If that's what you want then fine.
But it usually is a tale tell sign that the game will suck ass. SJWs are retarded as hell and should not design a game.

>>388343262
>Why do they keep trying to make an Overwatch killer?

Business people think that trying to capitalize on "what's hot" is good business practice.
Sadly that isn't the case when it comes to game development.

For example trying to make a Dota 2 killer is stupid because the people that play Dota 2 will not leave it for your game, especially when Dota 2 has had years to polish the gameplay and pump out content.
People will look at it as a worse clone and ignore it.

It's not like with say movies where people dedicate 2-3h of their lives to it and 3 months later can go see another movie like it.

>>388343301
>but it has "arena shooter DNA" if you ask cliff.
Who the fuck cares what Cliff thinks. He's been irrelevant for years. His only work on arena shooters was as a level designer.

Now that Overwatch is dying off, I figure this entire subgenre is going under. The "not-Overwatch" games don't seem to be able to get any traction. Battleborn was a disaster, and Lawbreakers just feels like it... exists. Paladins I don't know if its a hero shooter or closer to a MOBA. Never tried that game either, heard mixed things. Should give Paragon another try though, it seemed promising but had issues I hope they've worked out. That's a pure third person MOBA though.

Honestly yeah.

I just imagine a team of people eager and excited to produce something, whatever it may be, and then the awful feeling they get when jobless assholes like us who wouldn't even know where to begin making something like this just shit all over it.

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>>388343869
>SJWs are retarded as hell and should not design a game.

It's more that they're pussywhipped by their wives.

>>388343681

Unless you're a creative lead, is it wise to see a project as anything more than another job when you're on the bottom rung?

>>388343869
It's a game about sci-fi criminal gangs
Why would it all be white

I feel the same. I feel especially bad for the marketing people who have to keep trying to promote it instead of being able to move on from the failure.

Taking joy in something's failure isn't good.

>>388344153
>Unless you're a creative lead, is it wise to see a project as anything more than another job when you're on the bottom rung?

How do you think you will move up, get better jobs and get to work more creatively on the games you love? By not working hard? Not giving a shit and working hard rarely goes together.

>>388343379
Overwatch isn't forced.
Look at reaper and rein, You would have no clue reaper was mexican unless you looked at his past skins or read the comics.
You would have no idea rein was white unless you looked at his past skins or read the comics.
The game is making a design than making the character behind the design and every hero has a back story

>>388344156
they don't have to be all white, or even have a white character. the game just shows obvious signs of forced diversity and that is a huge red flag. If a game has it, stay the fuck away cause it will suck dick.

>>388343205
that is enough in and of itself.
Pandering to mental illness is not a good sign.

>>388344489
At no point does it ever feel like LB's racial composition is 'forced'. There's no racial message, there's no suggestion of agenda pushing. They're just appropriate characters for the setting.

>>388338210
>Does anyone else ever feel slightly bad when an anticipated game completely flops?
No, I don't.

Sort of don't care at all. I bought the game, I'm having fun with it, whether someone is making mad bank or being laid off is kind of so far removed from my involvement that I don't give a fuck.

Lawbreakers didn't fail us, we failed Lawbreakers. A fantastic game for a fantastic price, let down by idiots who think more expensive = better and see "hero shooter" and instantly screech "overwatch clone" without actually looking at how incredibly different the gameplay is. That's why it "failed", or rather WE as gamers failed. I hope everybody gets their head out of their asses and plays this game, give it the R6:siege treatment or whatever. Either way, I'll be eagerly playing this amazing game till its very end.

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>>388342562
I'm in the Air Force. I know 4 and I have been in for 2 years. I know almost 200 pilots and most of them are white. I know 4 black pilots.

>>388338210
the expressions are perfect.
just look how completely uninterested they are.

>>388338210
>but there are teams of artists, animators, coders, engine technicians and playtesters who actually made the game, and its their creation that ends up getting ripped to shit.

They get paid for this, that's what they signed up for so if they feel bad for people attacking the game then it's their problem. Also all those who create, and not the code monkeys (since we all know they are just drones and nobody cares about them), get either more experience AND foremost their portfolio filled with new stuff so believe me if an 3d artist sees a game he worked on shat on (as in on a game as a whole) he doesn't mind since he only made models and had nothing to do with gameplay and vice versa for every animator, engine technician etc.

Why is it that every time there's a Lawbreakers discussion going on it keeps ongetting sidetracked to SJW bullshit that has nothing or very little to do with how poorly the game performed in terms of player numbers and sales?

>>388345707
All the developers seem pretty enthusiastic. They run community streams, most of the developers actively play the game (and are pretty good at it, too). You run into them in game often enough

>>388344837
>that is enough in and of itself.

So if you realized that your favorite game had a trans toiled sign or something you would now hate it?

That's petty hate. It's only a problem if it fucks over things like gameplay or is too in your face (like the characters constantly trying to push some agenda in your face).

Most of the time, the games flop because they're shit.

>>388346790
This is the rest of the time. The game is great, and the marketing is shit.

>>388345783
>Why is it that every time there's a Lawbreakers discussion going on it keeps ongetting sidetracked to SJW bullshit that has nothing or very little to do with how poorly the game performed in terms of player numbers and sales?

Because /v/ latches on to this, like mindless sheep.

Look no further than games like Mafia 3 that /v/ still do this day things is a SJW pushing agenda game when there is nothing of the sort in the actual game.

A lot of people on /v/ don't know much at all about the games they hate on, they simply look for a reason, no matter how petty or inaccurate, to hate on it.

In the case of Lawbreakers it's mainly Cliffy B and not the game itself.

Do note I have no interest in Lawbreakers myself, but that's because I think the visuals and characters are bland as fuck, which is a big no-no in a hero type shooter.

>>388342818
And my dad works for Valve and he said that they are currently working on new IP.

>>388346790
>Most of the time, the games flop because they're shit.

Not really. Most of the time they flop because
>publishers expected more sales
>poor marketing
>doesn't stand out
>buried by bigger games releasing close to it
>bad word of mouth or controversy

>>388347185
it's not like working for CIG has any sort of prestige attached to it. I can prove my claim if you want

>>388339476
> They will be just fine, plus they got paid already.
That's a really simplified view of things, anon. If the game is succesful, it improves their career prospects because they worked on a good game, and the studio gets to make more games cause it can afford to pay them.

If it flops super hard, you have to lay people off, cancel sequels, get rid of company perks, force people to work unpaid overtime to patch it and so on.

>>388338210
No, I'm glad when games flop. This industry is shit and needs to reset.

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>>388347379
>force people to work unpaid overtime

Is this allowed in the US? The fuck?

>>388348236
>This industry is shit and needs to reset.

You've been watching too much anime.

>>388349197
Mate, it happens literally everywhere in the industry, are you retarded? Look up some crunch horror stories, most games end with a month or two of 14 hour days and working weekends.

>>388349417
I haven't watched anime in 5 years, try again.

>>388347379
>That's a really simplified view of things
You're right. But the game is good. It's just that today, and probably in the past as well, it was never enough for it just to be "good".
They dropped the ball hard with the marketing and the optics on this.
I don't want to see virtue signaling about toilets in a year in which a rich TV show host got elected president of the most powerful country in history because of the very same idiotic identity politics your game promotes.

Those people still got paid so whatever.

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>>388349197
Happens everywhere. The only difference is in shit companies, it tends to be mandatory, whereas in good ones people do it voluntarily because they care about the project.

In 2014, the IGDA did a survey that 81% of devs had experienced crunch in the last 2 years. Back in 2004, that figure was 97.6%

>>388349197
In any other industry, this is the kind of shit journalists would be doing reports on, but it's taken for granted that you work unpaid overtime in the games industry

Being honest LB wasn't anticipated and the flop was already cooking. I bought it and liked it, but can't say much about the game because it really doesn't have any content to speak of. Is it good? yes it is. But then what? nothing really.

>>388349797
>Mate, it happens literally everywhere in the industry, are you retarded?

Not in sweden. I guess we have better rights here. I just assumed the US wasn't as shit as 3rd world countries in this regard.
Heck in some cases it's not even allowed to work overtime since the company is forced to pay you if you do, meaning you have to be ordered to work overtime. But even then there's a limit to how much you're allowed to work overtime.

>>388338210
No one anticipated that game.

>>388338210
Most of those situations are just the fault of developers so i dont feel bad for them

In case of Lawbrakers the game was 2 years late and came into an over saturated market

>>388351563
Mostly it's Cliffy B and a few high level producers and marketers absolutely bombing the game's reputation before launch.

The dozens of programmers and artists who had to work on it weren't to blame, and you can bet your ass they'll get fired before Blezinski will.

>>388351563
>came into an over saturated market

Irrelevant. The problem was that it didn't stand out. It didn't have an identity.

If Cliffy B wasn't involved with the marketing and the game had a stronger visual identity it would've done much much better, even though it played the same.

I enjoyed my 35 hours of Lawbreakers until matches didn't open fast anymore but the game wasn't anywhere good enough to compete with the competition on the market. If you make an FPS it better be damn good or just become another average title in a sea of FPS games.

>>388347030
To be fair, there was a reason for Mafia 3 that caused it to be viewed the way it was. Mafia 3, whether intentional or not, was released during the ugliest political season in a while, which made it where edgelords this anon thought it was just trying to push SJW agenda, even though having played the demo it's nowhere that bad and at least tried to be accurate to its era. It's also because most damning of all, more so than the political themes and trying to convey an ugly era of American history, Mafia 3 was locked to 30fps on PC, and was launched in a pretty rough state.

I also think Mafia 3 had a review embargo, which usually gives off the impression that a developer/publisher is aware of the poor quality.

>>388351727
>Mostly it's Cliffy B and a few high level producers and marketers absolutely bombing the game's reputation before launch.
How exactly?
It was published by some no name company with almost no marketing.
The few PR catch frazes were bad and the game came out after overwatch already filled the gap from valve failing to update team fortress 2.
How did anything Cliffy did impact the sales in any way? 99% of gamers dont know who he is.

>>388338210
Nobody was excited for Lawbreakers, fuck off CliffyB

>>388351318
Different culture, literally.
To put it broadly, you've got 7 cultural clusters, no one experiences this unless they travel a lot either because they can or for business sake
-Nordic cluster
-Central Europe cluster
-Anglo cluster
-Latin American cluster
-South Asian cluster
-Confucian Asian cluster
-Eastern Europe cluster

All of these developed over time, conquests, leading cultural mindsets, whatever. This is all in broad terms as every country and neighborhood has their own twist to the bigger culture they're part of.

Essentially, Anglo cluster (USA, Canada, British conquest areas, again this is all broad terms so of course someone is going to go 'that bullshit because these smaller reasons') values work a hell of a lot more than what other cultures are used to. People in these parts would start convos with new people in terms of 'so... what do you do?' as a marker of identity, so long hours are a complaint as they are also a mark of being showing how they're being an upstanding citizen to the community. They'd also go and divulge a lot about themselves in small conversations (ie ya I'm going through a divorce right now, new guy, boy howdy its shit) and then when the work bell rings saying lunch is over, they get back to 'hurry your ass up, new guy, I wanted those papers 2 hrs ago' mode.

Nordic cluster is known for valuing individual free time, so US would view that as 'holy shit get to work you lazy gits' without taking perspective of separating what you do as not being the entirety of who you are or why you work -there's a reason why Anglo cluster US keeps getting pissed at Latin America cluster border crossers so much. Again, this is broader perspective of the cluster, nowhere near all US thinks this way, but it leads to why certain behaviors are idolized in one part of the world and why another thinks that fucking retarded

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>pander to a group of people that don't play games
>surprised when your game doesn't sell

>>388341253
You are the worst kind of poster. You look for SJW shit that isn't there and shit up threads in the most uncreative of ways. I hope you get rangebanned.

>>388354469
She looks REALLY asian in the game wtf

>>388347379

This guy gets it.

>>388355361
she looks half in-game

Wishing for games to flop on launch is a shitty attitude to have.

Can anyone help me out with this thing i've been wondering about? There's been a lot of games recently, western made games, that have obvious themes of political agendas. Diversity, racial and gender equalitly, religious freedom, feminism etc.
I truly haven't got any issue with these types of stories, but the problem is that these games are so focused on impressing the political point they are trying to make that they sacrifice gameplay and end up being boring and unoriginal, forgettable and not fun to play.
Anyways I was wondering if these types of games have been successful enough to make a profit or if they're just pissing away their money to keep making them.

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>>388354854
Usually I would agree with this however this is one of those times the guy is proven to have a point.

>>388344069

Paladins is actually doing great.

Top 20 on steam.

If you play lawbreakers (I tried the open beta) you'll feel that the actual combat feels much more "arena shooter" like - this doesn't make the game better though, and that's coming from a quake and unreal vet.

I honestly think they would've done better if they made a 3rd person shooter in the style of splatoon, just using jazz jackrabbit characters. You know. For pc, ps4, and "those salty xbox players" because the switch already has splatoon.

>>388345232

>criminals
>blacks
yeah that's appropriate for the setting alright.
>>388344112
i have a job idk about you
>>388344489
reaper is so obviously mexican, anything with skulls and shit is to get edgy teenagers and hispanics to like it
rein being white doesnt matter, just like how lawbreakers only had one whit character early on and it was the fat dude behind the mask
>>388345368
hi cliff nice to see you
thanks for reminding me r6s is free this weekend, again (fuck off ubishill)

I'm not really sorry for the lawbreakers artists considering every design looks so generic it actually made me angry