Zelda was never hard Zelda was never edgy and dark Windwaker

More like worst lmao rekt check dat 4

Zelda 2 is unironically a difficult game

>>388299939
every 3d zelda after majora's mask is shit

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>Winderwaker only has 5 dungeons
>Winder has 1 possible dungeon order, compared to ~20 for OOT and 50+ for ALTTP
>Windwaker has a forced stealth tutorial mission (and it later recycles this dungeon)
>Windwaker has lots of cut content
>Windwaker has many embarrassing graphical bugs, such as water clipping through the bottom of your boat
>The "ocean" in Windwaker is just one shade of blue forever, with little to explore
>The "ocean" in Windwaker is just a 2D plane, you can't swim in the water / go underwater. The previous games had amazing swimming mechanics despite being on an older console.

Wind Waker is a rushed, pathetic game with a lack of effort everywhere. They didn't even bother to make sure your boat floats above the water. If you like it, you either have shit taste or it was your first Zelda.

Don't even need to post THE EASIEST PUZZLE EVER webm.

>>388300451
7 dungeons actually, but yes its very short compared to other games.

BOTW is unironically the best 3D Zelda.

Other companies will be trying to emulate its open world features for the next decade.

>>388300519
What are these features you speak of?

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>>388300594
puzzles and interactive physics engine (sheikah slate)

other games have physics engines, but don't let you freely fuck around to the same degree as BOTW.

also the ability to infinitely sacrifice vertical height for travel speed (glider) is a wonderful addition that doesn't break the world like real flying would.

combine that with the ability to gain any amount of vertical height, but only along surfaces and only very slowly (climbing), and you've got yourself a winner.

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>>388300451
Honestly, "easiest puzzle ever.webm" isn't even my biggest memory of how insultingly easy Wind Waker it is-- it's the final room of the Earth Temple. The entire "puzzle" is moving mirrors down pre-defined paths until they can't move any further, then reflecting light to reveal MORE linear paths so you can move MORE statues until they lock in place at the end of THOSE paths. It's not a "puzzle", and it doesn't require any thinking.

>google for a good image of the "puzzle"
>find a blog that calls it the hardest puzzle in the game, shows how "diffuculty ramps up", and "makes the player feel smart"

Wind Waker, not even once.

>>388300519
BOTW is not a zelda game. It's just another open world game with a zelda paint.

Only nintendo fags seriously think there game with literal ubisoft towers == ground breaking open world game.

>>388300451
This, it was mediocre zelda title with few dungeons and underwhelming side quest when compared to those of Majoras mask. It didn't help that the plot felt compelled to reference Oot no matter how contrived and shallow it was.

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>>388300805
oh god i remember that

the game was so dull with no freedom to go outside the box. In my mind everyone who likes it is basically Chibi (a Nintendo only fan who loves WW).

>>388300806
The problem is that the generation today grew up with Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, etc… and (I feel old) it even seems particularly rare now that Ocarina of Time is mentioned. Never mind the games that came in the land before time like the NES Zeldas, Link to the Past and Link’s Awakening.

To them, the game being about “the story and the characters” is what Zelda is, which of course is what Aonuma Zelda is, with the actual game play (besides puzzles) pretty much being an afterthought behind the story he wants to tell. Classic-style Zelda is utterly strange andforeign to them, and BotW’s (somewhat) return to it is just way too different. They’re too used to the Zelda formula being like this:

– Long intro / tutorial sequence
– Game being in a straight line from beginning to end, where you go to one dungeon, get the item and use it to beat the dungeon’s boss and access the next dungeon, and repeat until the game is over
– “Story”

I played Wind Waker through for the first time last summer, 100%, and boy am I probably never going to play it again. It paints itself as the successor to Ocarina of Time even in-game but it’s anything but.

>>388299939
Switch WW and OOT and you're good

>>388299939
Remove windwaker and put ALtTP or the oracle games

>>388301124
The only zelda title I can think of that did this was zelda one (Sort of. You still can't beat certain dungeons in certain orders without an item in another but still you can skip some dungeons.) Even then traces of what you said are in that game. Many of the items are the bosses weaknesses in that dungeon.

Link to the past definetly cemented the formula you speak of and even links awakening does just that. That's the appeal of the game dude. That's what makes it a zelda game. A linear experience with puzzle solving and decent swordplay with a huge emphasis on adventuring and exploring. There's nothing wrong with that formula.

>>388301559
>muh dungeon order

As ever, missing the forest for the trees.

>>388301559
You can still do dungeons out of order in a link to the past

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>>388301559
I hope you're not implying that a Link to the Past is linear.

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>>388301559
You can do the forest, fire and water temples in any order in OoT (even without this exploit you can still do fire or water in either order after forest), then you can do shadow or spirit in either order.

>>388301693
Honestly I don't really mind dungeon disorder I just want my emphasis on puzzle solving and dungeons back.
>>388301759
Oh shit I forgot about that. I always played them in order but everyone else I knew did them in a random order. I think the fastest was 1,4,6,2,3, and 7 but i'm not sure. Link to the past 2 did this as well. that was cool though did any of you play zelda link to the past 2 on the 3ds? I wanted to play that but i'm not sure if it's any good.

>>388300805
>>388300451
>ZELDA IS SUPPOSED TO BE HARD

It's a children's game idiot, NO ONE plays Zelda for the deep puzzles

>>388301124
It's aonuma's fault

>>388302059
Is that really an exploit? It looks like it's just very specific angles and close jumps

I think of exploits as things like clipping through walls

>>388302245
They shouldn't play Zelda for puzzles at all, Aonuma.

Zelda should not be easier than Kirby.

>>388299939
MM was spooky. The moon face and that mad impish kid.
And it was kinda tricky to remember to do all the shit the next restart.

>>388300519
It's a colectatonn for the most part. Mario Odyssey will feel pretty much like it.
It's barely a Zelda game.

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>>388302624
>it's barely a Zelda game

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>>388299939

>>388302809
/thread

>>388300358
I wish Nintendo would release remakes of the old games as indie budget titles. I just want to play Adventure of Link with HD sprites.

>>388302806
Your point?
The game is by far different from classic Zelda experience.

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ww is embarassing

>>388299939
>Zelda was never hard
>he didn't play zelda 2 and oracle of ages

>>388303592
Noooooo, all the games before Wind Waker that offered any challenge don't count because they don't exist.

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I can't even tell who is being ironic anymore but this is pretty embarrassing, OoTtoddlers were a mistake.

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>>388299939
>3D
BotW>OoT=MM>TP>WW>SS

>2D
LttP>Oracle=LA>Zelda 1>LBW>MC>Zelda 2>DS series

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>>388303773
>BOTW good but MM isnt

>>388303773
I think you mixed them up brother, just leave oot where it is

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>>388303897
>I like linear trash

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>>388303773
Slight fix for you.

>>388303996
then why do you like links awakening and the oracle games

>>388300451
>>388300860
This, I fucking loved WW when it first came out but the games flaws are just undeniable.

The big empty sea, the easy combat, the easy puzzles, the clearly cut content, the Triforce hunt. It's a 6/10 game really. There's a reason Nintendo fixed up the triforce hunt and added the super sail in the HD release of the game.

>>388302809
Twilight Princess is a 7/10 game. It has better combat than WW but it also fumbles hard as fuck in a few areas. The wolf isn't interesting at all, his gameplay consists of platforming that nothing but "tap A to complete sequence" and a lot of his combat is either mashing or holding B until multiple enemies enter your small insta kill circle. The overworld is also dull and empty, Hyrule field is a joke that's worse than the WW ocean in terms of content. The items you get are exceedingly limited in how you can use them, the fucking possession rod is shit and has 0 use in combat, same with the spinner, the ball and chain is okay but is always a worse option than using the sword, the double hook shot is exceedingly situational and not all that interesting outside of the sky temple. The only good items in it are bow and bombs.

>>388303839
Agreeable for the 3D games, but I haven't played BotW yet. The second half of the 3D Zelda games are very mediocre and have serious flaws yet most of the Zelda fan base tries to act like these games are somehow better than anything else.

Really, the Zelda fanbase is one of the worst game fanbases out there. The fact that SS is a legit bad game and has a 95% on metacritic is a joke.

>>388303996
MM total possible dungeon orders: 7

BOTW total possible dungeon orders: 5

BOTW faggots btfo by facts.

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>>388304092
>The second half of the 3D Zelda games are very mediocre
All of them are except Breath of the Wild, you growing up with them doesn't change that.

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>>388299939
Reminder that Wind Waker has the worst dungeon design and it's not even up for debate.

https://youtu.be/DuU6ojvBIic

>>388304243
I grew up with a PS1, but I'd give OoT and MM a pass because of the limited tech of the time. The mistakes and errors made in WW, TP, and SS are much more offensive to me.

Granted, the 2D Zeldas do have better dungeon and overworld design when compared to OoT and MM. That fucking Gamegrumps LttP episode were Jontron kept whining about how OoT was a better game was the worst. Him going "but OoT has better atmosphere, this stage is just a boring castle, it has no soul" was his whole argument as to why OoT is a better game.

Also are the Oracle games worth playing? I got a bit into Ages but I just really couldn't get into the game for some reason.

>>388304852
Both try to be the same game in different ways. Both try to expand on LttP

Ages tries to be OoT/MM in 2D
Seasons tries to be Zelda 1 Remix

>>388304852
>limited tech of the time.
Then why did the 2D games do everything better with even more limited tech? OoT started the more strict item gating granted it did allow for some freedom in how you tackled things but every game after that just completely got rid of it unless you want to go half way through a dungeon, get an item and then leave. The overworld content was significantly less and the dungeon design became far more streamlined.

>>388305009
>unless you want to go half way through a dungeon, get an item and then leave

Can't even do that in games after MM since things aren't item locked, they're story trigger locked.

>>388305210
Well going halfway through a dungeon only to leave, do another dungeon and then return to the previous dungeon is practically non existent when you compare it to Zelda (NES) or ALttP. Unless you like unnecessary tedium.

>>388304650
WW overall was an easy game, like every aspect of it. I think the spectacle and nostalgia blind a lot of people to its flaws.

Loved it when I was young, but there's no denying it's got issues.

>>388305009
>Then why did the 2D games do everything better with even more limited tech?

Because LttP was released after 3 generations of 2D tech, and OoT and MM were the first Zelda games released on 3D engines. The 3D engines couldn't give you large overworlds like the older games did, and the dungeons were probably made a bit simpler because of the added concept of puzzles functioning in 3D. Not to mention games had gotten decent;y easier in the transitions from the NES, SNES, and then to the N64.

I'd love to see a video that directly compares dungeon design in the 2D Zeldas versus the 3D ones.

>>388300451
>One shade of blue forever
Wrong

>>388305553
The water has no shading. It's also 2D and doesn't allow swimming, even though the previous games on an older console easily managed 3D underwater.

WW is a low effort embarrassment.

>>388304069
Aonuma made BotW though.

Also, Aonuma played a much smaller roll in OoT.

>>388305756
They probably couldn't think of an under water texutre that would mesh well with the strong solid blue of the water surface. Shit isn't transparent at all and would look pretty awkward if you could die and swim around in it.

Also underwater sections in the older games weren't impressive, that shit had been done before in other 3D games. It's less of a technical limitation and more to do with them not caring to design underwater swimming sections.

>>388305935
Well, rolling is faster so I can't blame him.

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>>388305935
Fuji directed SS and BotW, Aonuma only directed MM, WW and TP. There's also more than one person that makes these games in case you didn't know.

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>>388304650
>Not liking the wind temple

>>388300451
Honestly this.

Also the "exploration" element (which the game uses as a crutch to justify its lack of dungeon content) is terrible. The amount of copypaste is absolutely insane.

>holes that lead to an enemy arena
>submarines that lead to an enemy arena
>platforms where you kill enemies
>reefs where you destroy X amount of cannons
>treasure charts where you go to the right pixel and then fish out a chest that probably has a silver rupee

Repeat all of that shit over and over and over for the whole map, it's pure filler. Exploration doesn't mean anything if the world isn't interesting. It's just busywork. The game doesn't even acknowledge when you've filled in the whole map. No message, no fanfare, nothing. Lazy as fuck and a total waste of time.