If fans can fix the gameplay why can't they fix the writing?

>>388160408
its about a god damn blue hedgehog for fuck sakes who cares

Yeah Ian Flynn was really successful with the comics and Boom cartoon so I can see this working well.

>>388160408
They did. look at the writing for mania

>>388161669
What writing?

>>388161669
True, its alot better then a bunch of the typical 3D sonic game stories.

>>388161874
There is barely a story in it.

>>388161781
exactly

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>>388160408
Needs more chili dogs.

>>388161669
At least it doesn't have a annoying as shit female human in furry world, well done Sonic Mania team. Why does Sega always want some new edgelord to be a protagonist? Shits fucking stupid.

>>388161584
I hate how nobody knows shit about who wrote what but relies on the common knowledge of Ian good, Penders bad.

I mean, Penders IS bad, but Ian was barely involved with the Boom cartoon. I wish people would look into the media they consume and form their own opinions.

>>388161963
So almost every completed Sonic fanfic is better than it then.

>>388162045
They probably see all of the fanfics and figure thats what all the fans want

>>388162076
You have some shit standards for video games.

>>388161963
But that means the writing is still worse than Sonic 4 because there is even less time devoted to that plot than Sonic Mania.

>>388160408
Nobody cares

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>>388162171
tfw this might actually be the case

>>388162197
You get a 0 for story if your story doesn't exist.

>>388162356
That is fine, it isn't anything that needs "fixing".

>>388162320
the lead writer for Forces is the same guy for 06

>>388162440
No, but having more of a story can add to future installments.

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>>388160408

Sonic at its roots is about an environmentally-concerned pygmy porcupine who likes to collect jewelry. Just roll with it.

>>388162076
how would Mania benefit from a deep plot?

i liked manias story, bunch of sprites do some cool custom animations and you make what you want out of it.

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>>388162489

>>388162356
I'll take "punch badman" over "time travel necrophile bestiality" any day, thanks.

>>388162560
It would add to the experience and get you more invested in the game because you have more of an emotional connection to what you are doing.

It provides more to a game that fundamentally is just running and jumping.

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>unique Mirage Saloon act for Knuckles

>>388160408
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqV2RL6TX9k

>>388162356
Mania has a story
After 3 eggmans new robots-the Hard-Boiled Heavies-get a ruby which fucks with time and sends the guys back. Sonic then tries to stop eggman from using the ruby to fuck up more shit

>>388162894
Then you get two points for effort.

>>388162740
so Sonics motivation for running and jumping needs to be outlined before people can properly enjoy it

>would add to the experience
so would strippers in church, but it's inappropriate

>>388162740
Knuckles' reaction to Heavy King stealing the ME got me more invested than any part of Sonic Adventure.

Maybe dialogue isn't important.

>>388163046
Then why not get rid of the cutscenes? Sonic Mania spends more time telling its story than Sonic Advance.

>>388162740

its just not about that, you must be pretty young and didn't play sonic at the time of its height.

not everything needs dumb lines of text, alot if older games would just let the action on screen tell the story, which is more existing than lines of text, esp when its about a blue hedgehog, i dont think he could say anything i care about, but he can DO stuff i care about.

>>388162740
>It would add to the experience
By adding cutscenes, or dialogue scenes, or story scenes. Delaying gameplay, and giving a reason to add a skip button.
>and get you more invested in the game because you have more of an emotional connection to what you are doing.
I don't buy tumblr games sorry.
>It provides more to a game that fundamentally is just running and jumping.
Let me just fix this for you
>It artificially makes the game longer then it needs to be, and makes you have to spam the skip cutscene button to get back into the game.
There we go.

>>388162740
Simple games like sonic don't need story to drive engagement. Likewise with similar games such as mario, if you think people play for the story you're retarded.

Only modernfags like the new edgy sonic plots with bad writing, characters up the ass, and obnoxious melodrama with buttrock vocals playing in the background

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>>388160408
>Finally get to oil zone octopus boss
>first time i got to him with fire shield but died because i didn't jump out of oil quick enouugh
>spend remainder of time learning his attack paterns
>finally beat him on erd try
>relax and think its over
>sink into oil and die right as eggman blows up
>have to start over
>after like 6 more tryi beat him
>make sure to jump out of oil
>sigh of relife
>startig lava reef

The annoying part about him is that you can destroy the tentacles with the balls on them in one phase.
Takes about 2-3 phases just to get rid of them both if your timing is good.

The oil also kills you in like 1 second flat

>>388163164
"adds to the experience"

>>388162489
>wants future installments

You don't understand what makes Mania great at all if you think adding installments is a good thing.

>>388163267
Someone made a great post over in /sthg/ today about how Adventure would be much better if it cut the dead air. Like half that game is wandering shitty maps and awkward pauses caused by the game needing time to load dialogue.

>>388160408
the writing's presence is the problem

this focus on writing is what has drawn in all these degenerate sjws and other assorted trash

>>388163180
But times have changed and standards have changed, we have more capabilities to tell a deeper story and by removing these aspects we're removing opportunities for these characters to express themselves. We are then limiting their appeal as characters and selling them solely by the gameplay.

At that point he's no different than Mario, or Mega Man, or Link, or any other mute generic protagonist which he was trying to break away from.

>>388160408

Anyone looking for a story in a Sonic game is an autist.

the MUH STORY craze has fucking ruined video games
prove me wrong

>>388163602

you're fucking retarded

>>388163667
Maybe for you, but kids fucking love FNAF and Undertale.

>>388163602
holy autism batman

>>388162472
Actually the DIRECTOR for Sonic Forces was the 06 Lead Writer.

>>388160408
Sonic needs as much story as the originals had. Eggman is bad, tries stealing chaos emerald, adventures ensue.

Just bring awesome gameplay and interesting levels and profit

>>388163602
>At that point he's no different than Mario, or Mega Man, or Link, or any other mute generic protagonist which he was trying to break away from.

So, what you are saying is, people will judge the game by the gameplay, and not the characters?
Good.

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>>388163602
I WONDER WHAT WAYS YOU COULD CONVEY A CHARACTER WITHOUT TEXT OR CUT SCENES.

>>388163602
>But times have changed and standards have changed
Apparently not considering all the rave reviews for Mania.

>>388163620
it's not even that
the game works without a plot, adding one wouldn't significantly improve it, so why waste the effort?

I haven't seen any reviews scathing it for it's paper thin characters and lack of a cohesive story

>>388163681
>>388163768
If Sonic doesn't have any artistic merit to you, then why complain if a deeper story is optional to you?

>>388163740
That alone proves him right. The story craze has most definitely ruined video games.

>>388163824
Well yeah, but that's not what Sonic was supposed to be about.

>>388163740
>kids love the TO and Fanuc community surrounding FNaF and Undertale
Fixed that for you. It's the same with Sonic. It's about the template, not the game.

I think Mania's stories problem is it's obvious tie in Forces. I feel like no love went it asides from the heavies.

>>388163740
Those """"games"""" are perfect encapsulations of what is wrong with """"games""" today

>>388163870
Oh don't a force a story in, but you shouldn't force a story not in.

>>388163892
>It doesn't have artistic merit unless there's dialogue
This thread just keeps giving.

>>388163982
Good.

>>388163892
>Ever interrupting the game for story
Doesn't sound optional to me.

>>388163892
holy fuck you really are an autist aren't you?
do games not have any native art to them besides what they borrow from other mediums?
level design is art
sound design and music is art
animation, graphics is art
m-m-m-muh deep plot is not the only thing with artistic merti

>>388164232

Not thhat guy, but a good story is always a plus.

>>388164110
Then mania isn't a good sonic game. It's a good game, but it's a bad "Sonic" game. If you don't like sonic then why don't you fuck off? You clearly never liked it in the first place or if you did it was only because you were to stupid to recognize what this series was intended to be.

>>388164223
It can be turned off completely from a menu option so it doesn't affect you.

so is this one retard or two of them

>>388164306
But a story isn't necessary. Beat up Eggman and save the animals is all you need.
>>388164495
Last Sonic thread I triggered an autist who was threatening to beat me up because I said that a silent Classic Sonic is a better design than snarky Modern Sonic.

>>388164350
Name 25 American games that do this.

>>388164562
A good story never hurts a game.

>>388164336
>Then mania isn't a good 3D styled Sonic game
Fixed that for you, and this is a positive, not a negative.
>It's a good game, but it's a bad "3D story styled Sonic" game.
Fixed again, and again, this is a good thing. The further Mania can go to being more similar to Sonic 1, 2, and 3 + K, the better.

>You clearly never liked Sonic
>I know what Sonic is suppose to be
>You are stupid for not recognizing what this series is suppose to be

Yeah, no, nobody should take anything you say seriously ever from now on.

>>388164562

Why not just play Mario?

>>388164495
Like four and a few people responding because it's funny.

Pretty sure OP is memeing.

>>388164624
how can a game like Tetris ever have a story that adds to the game

>>388164306

i dont give a shit about the story sonic is good zones, and good boss fights, emeralds special stages, super sonic

thats it, thats why its fun, you learn to become super sonic ASAP and try smash through the game as fast as possible while keeping enough rings to cheese the bosses as super sonic.

Classiccucks are on suicide watch since nobody cares about their review-shilled romhack anymore! XD

>>388163982
>that's not what Sonic was supposed to be about.
What was Sonic 1, 2, and 3?

>>388164727
So, you enjoy the game by playing it as little as possible?

>>388164683
Like this
https://youtu.be/ob5t0llIZjE

NOBODY

CARES

ABOUT

SONIC

MANIA


ANYMORE

GET


OVER


IT


CLASSICFAGS

>>388164495
I would say a single "artfag". Someone that thinks a game has no merit without a story, or that a game is bad with a simple or basic story. Probably someone that sees older games as "beneath them", or "the dark ages" or something. Probably someone that does this cause someone made fun of them for playing video games, and instead of the obvious option of "I don't care", their response is "you are right, video games are for children, unless they have smart and deep stories, therefore I must support games that do this only." Whoever this is, I hope they are just being a false flagger and not real.

>>388164837

yeah because golf is heaps fun if you take 150 shots a round.

>>388164639
But not CD I am betting, because that had cutscenes and voice acting and a character added in the game specifically for story reasons.

>>388164671
He doesn't go fast. Did you serious ask such a obvious fucking question?

>>388164907

So, Sonic is Golf now? Were we really playing the same videogame?

>>388164889
modernfags seething

>>388164336
>Then mania isn't a good sonic game
It is retard. It's as good as the original trilogy, which was a simple story about a hedgehog saving animals from a bad guy. Quite trying to make it more then what it is. Sonic was created to show off what the genesis can do compared to it's marketing rivals. Not as an intricate plot that'll allures people with it's emotional impact. If you really think that's what differentiated sonic from other game characters then you truely don't know what sonic is about.

>>388164890
Sonic should have stories or at least be able to talk since he was always conceived of being a snarky wiseass.

Sonic Mania doesn't seem to be doing well with sales, Oh Well.

>>388164985

What about Mario Kart? it doesn't have a story, and goes fast.

Were classic sonic fans always absolute faggots or did they become faggots after Mania was announced?

>>388164837
Yes, people enjoy speed. That's what Sonic is about, going fast and cool level designs.

>>388164785
/thread

are these SANIC autists for real or am I being ubertrolled?

>>388163982
Except Sonic 1 2 and 3 was that, and you are fucking wrong, sir.

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>>388165070
>at least be able to talk since he was always conceived of being a snarky wiseass.

>>388165030
It was created as an alternative to Mario.
Since Mario now has a voice and more focus on stories, that somehow Sonic is now counteracting it by somehow being closer to Classic Mario.

>>388165070
Stop

my favorite feature of this site is absolutely no consequences for my opinions sucking ffucking ass and me being 100% wrong about everything

>>388162493
Actually, Awesome Possum would be a better fit for that description

>>388165216
But he got a voice in Sonic CD.

>>388163602
>we have more capabilities to tell a deeper story and by removing these aspects we're removing opportunities for these characters to express themselves.


what tells a story is how its told. Its why video games stories are even worse than they were around 2000's because writers like you are so far up their own ass that they don't realize what their supposed to be doing:

Playing a fucking video game.

>>388165070
>or at least be able to talk since he was always conceived of being a snarky wiseass

When was he this?
Cartoons and 3D games do not count.
So again, when was he like this in 1, 2, 3, and K?

Because they were mostly focused on fixing the gameplay, which is the most important aspect of Sonic, and the area it has failed the most these past 15 years.

They can work on fixing up the story later. The best way the stories can be told is through the levels, like Sonic 3 and Knuckles did. Keep it simple, but with a little bit of lore. Background plots like the ones in CD were relatively un-intrusive, while also being interesting.

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>>388164932
>CD
>Voice acting
Freeze, buster. You're under arrest for talking about video games you've never played.

>>388160408
Every eu ever

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Official Classic Sonic Tierlist

3&k > 2 > CD > Mania > 1

>>388165354
You mean how he'd say yeah every now and then? Some voice.

>>388165407
3&K>M>CD>2>1

>>388165393
Sonic CD

>>388165083
Except I can't play as a blue hedgehog, my favorite animal, and I don't like driving vehicles. Your move.

>>388165459
This is fair and I will accept it.

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>>388165393
Wait 3 minutes and he'll shout "I'm Outta Here" and jump off screen giving you an instant game over.

>>388165492

Sonic racing

>>388165407

Mania = 3&K > 1 = CD > 2

>>388164932
>CD
>Voice acting

Like the skeleton guy said, caught red handed, CD didn't have voice acting.

>>388164101
>undertale
>not a game
you don't even have to enjoy it or think it's good but it is a fucking game you stupid parrot filth
but of course you don't because you're just a mindless drone trying to fit in with your thoughtless shitposts so nobody calls you reddit
god fucking damnit you are what is wrong with this fucking board in a nutshell
and nobody else will call this garbage out either because they're also fucking too scared of not having the correct opinion on a fucking anonymous image board
jesus fucking christ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGK2P1cOJJc

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At least they fixed the soundtrack

>>388165393
in sonic cd if the player waits too long without pressing anything

>>388165472
He has a single easter egg soundbyte if you stop playing for an extended period without pausing. That's fucking nothing.

>>388165561

Didn't Sonic sound like a little boy in that one?

>>388165472
>>388165561
Oh yeah, that is true. Even still, I think they captured Sonic's personality pretty well in Mania.

>>388165642
LIGHTS CAMERA ACTION

>>388160408
>needing story in your BING BING WAHOO vidya

One of the reasons Mania was so fun was because it didn't have any of Sonic's shit writing.

>>388165674
It was a memorable moment because it captured Sonic so well.

>>388165675
Literally voiced by a woman who didn't speak English.

It was a gag.

>>388165675
He was voiced by a girl and had barely any voice acting

>>388165562
>Don't like driving vehicles.

>>388165797

There is one in which they race on foot

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the only GOOD thing about Sonic is Rouge.

>>388165778
Yes, a sound crunched AHMOTAHEA really defines his character.

>>388164101
I just want to say, well done triggering this fucking snowflake idiot here:
>>388165594
By the way moron, Last of Us isn't a game, and neither is Gone Home.

>>388165683

I think Sonic expresses himself just fine by his actions. Like when he looks at the screen and does that circling motion around his ear while waiting. Fact of the matter is, some characters just don't need voice acting. They do well enough with gestures.

>>388160408
Wasn't the writing in Sonic at it's best when there wasn't any writing, and the story was told through visuals?

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>>388162472
>>388163802
You've got to be fucking kidding me. He should have been raked over the fucking coals for that, not given yet ANOTHER gigantic budget game to play with.

>>388165642
Lights camera action

>>388166019
Yes, level transitions is literally all you need

>>388165880
He just keeps going further off model. It's sad.

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>>388165407
>red sonic
it doesn't matter how many times I've see it, I chuckle every time

>>388165778
FUCKING STAHP

>>388165934
you're literally just the same fucking retard you're pretending to quote
you're correct, gone home is not a game because it has no GAME PLAY
the last of us is a shitty game but it is in fact a game because it does have GAME PLAY
here's your (You), here's your /v/ credit for having the proper opinion you good boy you
remember not to think for yourself we can't have that around here

if you want shitty story go watch the the 90s toon

>>388166037
They made him sit in time out for a decade.

>>388165642
LIGHTS
CAMERA
ACTION

>>388165852
I don't like the graphics in that game. Your move.

>>388162356
sure that's fair. But I play video games for games, not story, so scoring on the story is irrelevant to me.

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>>388160408
>SEGA lets American companies make cartoons & comics about Sonic during the 90s classic Sonic era
>SEGA of Japan: WOAH DUDE that shit is GAY! Stop ruining Sanic!
>*proceeds to write a 100x gayer story and force it into the games*
>decades later SEGA fixes the series simply by throwing the story in the trash

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>>388166019

Yeah. Hell sometimes the levels alone told a story better than any narrative.

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>>388166175
and then he goes and fucks up again as soon as they let him out of his box
why is sega so bad at learning their lesson

>>388163602
if you want a story, go read a fucking book or a movie. This is like complaining that you can't interact with what you're watching when seeing a movie.

7.7/10 b8 made me reply

>>388166384

It's so hard to get a good job in this day and age, how did this clown get this one, let alone keep it after 06?

>>388165923
Along with him jumping off the screen after you waited too long.

I mean this does show his impatience and tells the player, in case they are there, why Sonic is jumping off the screen.

>>388164889
It's actually the best Sonic game since..hmm.. Sonic R.

what's wrong Classicucks? no one cares about you're romhack anymore? that's sad.

>>388166653
I would say Sonic Advance is better.

>>388165407
Mania > CD > 2 >= 3&K > 1

Mania literally combines everything I liked about all the Sonic games into one.

People trying to squeeze blood from a stone, knowing Sonic Mania has been forgotten about.

>>388166037
Anon's full of shit.

Forces' director is Morio Kishimoto, director and lead game designer of Sonic Colors. His first project was Secret Rings.

>>388160408

>trying to make Sonic about story
>implying that isnt one of the reason why the games the last 20 years have sucked so bad, unlike Mario who doesnt give a fuck about it

>>388165561
also the "Yes!" when getting an extra life

>>388166527
He directed Samba de Amigo and Billy Hatcher.

wtf i hate sonic mania now

>>388167010

What does this have to do with anything?

>>388162493
>Sonic at its roots is about an environmentally-concerned pygmy porcupine who likes to collect jewelry. Just roll with it.
nothing more nothing less

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>>388160408
>fans can fix the gameplay

>>388162740
>more of an emotional connection to what you are doing
faggot

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>>388162472
>>388163802
Are you guys fucking retarded

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DLC when?

>>388167468
>say same guy is writing it
>he is
WOOOOOOOOW

>>388166913
Mario does give a fuck about story, there was even that entire section of Mario Galaxy dedicated to Rosalina's backstory.

>>388160408
The plot for mania was forced by Sonic Team considering it's a prequel to Forces so it doesn't count as fan writing.

>>388167660
That was an exception that only got in because they hid it from Miyamoto,, and then when he found out Miyamoto REEEEEED so hard that that backstory got retconned out of existence

>>388167527
Shun was not a lead writer, there were writers. Yoshimura wrote the game script for 06.

Because every attempt at writing a fleshed out Sonic story feels obligated to retain every aspect of Sonic regardless of the story's tone.

Sonic is silly. It's a silly fucking cartoon animal fighting a silly fucking fat cartoon man and if you want to change the tone of that you're going to have to radically alter how you portray the world he lives in. This is why even the worst Mario RPGs manage to be entertaining. They take a world that is inherently whimsical and silly and play out a little drama that is part campy monster of the week cartoon and part farcical comedy. It's all very in line with what Mario is about, and yet the episodic style of these games leave a lot of room for moments of genuine pathos in a series about a fat little mustached plumber who collects stars and fights turtles.

Sonic Boom seems to have adopted this style to an amazing effect for the TV series, but if you want an example of good Sonic writing, look at fucking SatAM. It's not perfect, but god damn if it isn't the only time I've ever felt like Sonic's trademark attitude was a fully realized and justified part of his character, and people and things he was fighting for felt like they were really worth it.

Really makes me wonder why the fuck we can't get a Sonic SatAM game.

>>388168490
Shadow the Hedgehog was fun for how campy it was

>>388167717
>nun rouge.

Fuck.

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>>388160408
because you're not looking at the right spot.

Sonic doesn't need writing. Needs speed, platforming, momentum, branching paths like classic era.

And before the "but they need story telling", just look at Mario. Princess gets kidnapped again and there goes Mario jumping on walking mushrooms while destroying their kingdom. That's the "story".
Sonic's story is "Robotnik/Eggman appears again with evil plans, Sonic stops him. The End". But they prefer to go the route with more dark stuff, the cool and the edgy, Eggman getting betrayed by someone and the evil ancient being of the month as a final boss.

>>388161235
fpbp

>>388167524

>Hyper Sonic as DLC

I guess that would make sense, considering you needed to buy and add-on to access Hyper Sonic to begin with. But it better come with a whole new set of levels, like the original Sonic and Knuckles

>>388168490
>if SatAM got a third season 2 OCs would have taken over as the main villains
Might have been cool, or maybe it's fondly remembered because it ended before it got too far away from the "Robotnik turning animals into robots" premise.

Actually why are no Sonic stories in the (non-classic) games about Dr Robotnik roboticizing the forest creatures?

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>>388168490
SatAM was fucking edgelord garbage. I never understood how faggots like you complain about the latter Sonic games being tryhard grimdark messes but then praise SatAM which did that even worse than any of the Sonic games ever did

At least Adventure 1 was still fun and cute. SatAM just felt like a generic plot with Sonic characters and "Sonic" characters thrown in

>>388170575
Because Sonic isn't SATAM. If there is one thing SOJ does right is not allow any Western Sonic cancer in the games, except AoSTH.

>>388165407
3&K > Mania > 2 > CD=1

>>388165407
Mania's either better, just as good, or nearly as good as 3&K. That's the full range of possible opinions on this manner.

>>388161235
+1

>>388170575
SatAM would have been shit if it continued between Snively being betrayed with Ixis Naugus being the new big bad, on top of Nicole going DEUS EX MACHNIA as a girl turned PDA that could bend reality and stuff. It would have just ended up being the Archie comics during the dark ages, but instead by ruining the source material that Archie and fans worked with for years.

As far as modern Sonic and turning critters into robots go, the only game that really bothered with that was Lost Worlds, since Eggman was actively capturing animals again and Tails had the chop shop treatment at one point.

>>388171150
>>388171263
SatAM always felt like one of those old cartoons that were pro-environmental that mooched free grant money from the government back in the day, yet somehow landed Sonic / Tails / Robotnik. Stuff like only a single ring at best when Sonic usually gets 1k or more per game, no Emeralds, no varied zones since it never acknowledged that most Sonic stages were colorful due to the narrative the show took, as well as the other usual stuff.

Adventures of Sonic The Hedgehog seemed more legitimate to the source material

>>388170084
Mario has more story in his games than Classic Sonic did.

>>388160408
Does the writing fucking matter? It's Sonic the Hedgehog. Mania did exactly what classic Sonic should do with that style of game in regard to the story.
When it comes to modern Sonic I say the wacky anime tier shit is the way to go.

>>388165398
Sonic in CD has like one line if you leave him sitting idle for too long. It's not really the same, but there is some.

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I genuinely think Shadow the Hedgehog is a good character. I'd love to see him in Mania 2.

>>388171263
>doesn't allow Western cancer in the Sonic games
>filling them with much worse Japanese ass-cancer is okay
It's been bad since Sonic Adventure 1. The Sonic characters and Chaos story were good. Dumping them into a city populated by realistic humans was not.

>>388170575
It's a known fact that the Japanese sonic teams wanted to keep the japanese canon distinct and separate from the American cartoon canon.

The american cartoon canon is far more faithful to the theme and narrative of the sonic games than anything that has come after it. Sonic was an unlikely hero, he had a plucky sidekick, and it was them against a well-established robotic empire bent on endless expansion. Classic rebels vs empire setup with the twist that the empire was built on natives turned robot slaves.

There's a sad irony here. In trying to distance itself from the american canon, it ended up distancing itself from its own roots, and the DBZ influence from from one-off reference (super sonic) to full on batshit central plots and too many useless characters in the cast.

>>388172438
I feel the exact same way about Sonic Adventure 2. The writing was dumb and cliche, but I loved Shadow the same way you'd love Vegeta turning good in Dragon Ball. This might be dumb, but I'd love a Shadow Mania.

>>388172287

I like playing as Shadow, but I don't really care too much about his backstory or anything like that. I just use him for that sweet chaos control. He was fun to use in Sonic Battle.

After 06 I stopped taking sonic plots seriously, and for the most part the later games took the story less seriously as well. Sonic works best if it has a simple, no supernatural villain of the month bullshit, plot. It's a fucking giant blue walking, talking mammal and you expect me to take this like a fucking edgy try hard anime? Just give me a Sonic stops Fatty McEggface plot that isn't a edgy angstfest shonen jump manga.

>>388172849
>I don't want Sonic to have a story
>But he should have THIS story instead with Eggman
Why would you want the same thing every time? Some random ass villain isn't changing anything up, Anon.

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>>388171787
>SatAM
>environmentalist themes
>STRONK female characters
SJWs would love it if this came back, but with one modern addition
>Dr. Robotnik is RACIST against FURRIES

>>388165642
LIGHTS CAMERA ACTION

>>388172287
I genuinely want to know why you feel this way. I mean there's no such thing as wrong opinions, but Shadow strikes me as incredibly unnecessary from a storytelling perspective.

Knuckles was already a good enough secondary antagonist. He's the classic rival archetype in that he share a lot of traits with the protagonist and is pitted against him by circumstance.

Shadow -can- work as a sort of evil doppelganger created by the villain, but that's kind of the problem for me. Metal Sonic was already the evil doppelganger. Granted, you could just exclude metal sonic and have shadow stand in as a more interesting replacement as he did in SA2, but Shadow was supposed to be dead at the end. The only reason he came back was because of fan demand. That's kind of telling..

>>388172438
Adventure 1 > SatAM still. SatAM's character designs were garbage and they seemed to deny the existence of Sonic "levels"

>>388171459
The quality of Mania is much more consistent than 3&K was. Its high points surpasses 3&K's high points and its low points are nowhere near as low. 3&K only surpasses Mania in the amount of content and that's only because it's basically 2 games combined into one.

>>388160408

Because they don't have anything good to copy from.

>>388160408
non-verbal narrative

google that shit my nigga

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>>388163982
>Sonic isn't supposed to be about having good games

>>388164683
Make it about the collapse of the Soviet Union.

>>388176598
>basically 2 games combined into one

It's more like 1 game cut into 2, and the amount of content is about the same, 3K has 1 more zone but the Knuckles exclusive level in Mirage Saloon makes up for that.