Assassins vs Templars

>>388111618
I'm still confused on why they're fighting
Can someone explain?

>>388113084
Templars believe free will is a corrosive and dangerous element towards civilization. They want to have few direct many through use of the apples - so that a better society can form where people work together.
The Assassins believe that free will is paramount - fitting since they were the first humans to rebel against Those Who Came Before. They believe that a society of self-propelled individuals will strengthen humanity, and that the ultimate end fate of any Templar scheme is brutal dictatorship.
They both have their flaws. Templars are manipulative, and assassins are brutal and violent.
Regardless, it's an interesting narrative spoiled by a deluge of mediocre games.

When I was a kid
>Assassins

When I got a little older
>Templars

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>>388111618
The narrative would be great if there is no New Age bullshit, it could be a conspiracy war against each other or portrayed as the political alignment of today.

Nevertheless, Ubisoft won't have the balls to do that since they are businessmen, and vidya is a just business as usual.

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WE WUZ KANGZ AN SHEEEEET WHITE BOI

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map is going to te huge

tho size dosnt matter, we've already seen wildlands

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Both.
Sometimes the Templars are in the right.
Sometimes Assassins are the right.
Games where templars where right.
>AC1
>AC3
>AC Rouge
>AC Unity

>>388111618
>Love the Assassin's Creed series
>Loathe the PS4 exclusives
We need another Desmond, or relate-able normal person to experience these games. Skull and Bones absolutely baffles me. The worst aspects from their coolest game, yet it costs full price.

The series would have been a lot more interesting if they alternated between the two factions and presented a more grey world.

Instead, we got like 8 games with fucking Ezio and that Desmond fuck.

>>388113349

Fuck off Ubisoft I already played SMT and thus know both full law and full chaos are terrible.

>>388111618
It's difficult to really side for any of them, as they both have critical flaws.
Templars are sometimes straight up evil, moustache-twisting motherfuckers that deserve to be killed.
Assassins have their head really up their own ass, they blindly follow the creed and believe themselves morally superior to everyone, not to mention they are murderers.

One of the best examples of this is in Unity when Arno kills some templar on his own without following orders. His superiors immediately call him murderer, as if they are any better.

>>388113349
assassins are the always right perfect marie sue faction in most of the games except for rogue where they're stupidly evil and unity where they don't really do anything.

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They both want the same thing
they just want to achieve it in different ways
though I'd side with the Templars any fucking day
But in the end, Shay did nothing wrong except not joining the right side sooner

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>>388114740
ezio is chad fuck off

>>388113806
This.

You can't really say one side is ultimately right when they can both lead to really bad shit happening if they're allowed to operate to their logical extremes. At their worst, the Templars are straight up saturday morning cartoon villains that want to dominate the world and the Assassins are self-righteous hypocritical fucks who would murder anyone that disagreed with them.

>>388111618
>Origins takes place in ancient egypt, thousands of years before the real life templars or assasins existed
What did they mean by this?

>>388117021
they meant they are running out of historical settings

>>388113806
Same, templars are right, free will won't get anything accomplished sadly

>>388111618
Templars

but assassins creed rogue was such wasted potential the guy can barely be considered a templar.

>>388117451
>tfw no 30 years war assasin's creed

I see no hope in being happy and content with life if we strived for a Heartless Utopia that the Templars pray about when they speak of their father of understanding

Assassins have the right idea but sometimes they end up going down the wrong path to help humanity achieve freedom, wether by being corrupted by Templar philosophy or blindly going about the conflict without having an understanding of why they fight, why the Templars fight.

We saw what blind action lead in rogue and we see how even the wisest among the Assasins turned to dictatorship like on the first assassins creed, Turing the assassins into ones own personal tool.

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>>388115296
>permavirgin detected
I agree

Considering the assassins literally save the world from ancient aliens....

>>388111618
Far right: templars
Far left: Assassins

Take this thread to pol

Templars are republicans and Assassins are liberals.

>>388122249
Of allow it. It's hardly political, more philosophical. Control vs freedom

Though would you say that
Assassins: capitalists
Templars: communists
Or is it the other way around? And with twangs of fascism mixed in?

>>388114740
black flag pretty much says fuck it to both and living a good life being paramount, displaying the assassins as more grey than ultimately good.

>>388111618
I feel like Ubisoft can't decide whether Templars are just one side of the coin or evil nazis.

>>388117021
It's not that ancient. It's around the time of the Roman empire.

>>388115058
No they're not cakeboy. Just goes to show you haven't played an Assassin's Creed in over a decade.

There are several games where the Assassins make massive mistakes and get turned on by their allies. They nearly die out several times in the series.

>>388122731
Not really. It's just showed the MC was pretty immature and not taking life in general seriously or taking responsibility and seeing how it all comes crashing down because reality doesn't stop for anyone.

They tried their hands at civilization building away from society and it collapsed like a house of cards, with our MC losing basically all his friends and coming to understand the stakes that the assassins and Templars play around with on a daily basis.

>>388111618
The only people who actually think templars are better wouldn't even make it in the templar's new world. They think its better, but they invision the world as them being one of the in control when in reality they'd just be an apple slave.

Also Templars will never achieve their goal, even if there weren't assassins, everyone wants to be a king, no one would be in control for long enough to achieve the new world they want because they'd constantly be knifing eachother in the back.

Assassins are better but still too dogmatic to ever uphold true free will.

>>388122462
Don't say that, anon. You trying to hurt the alt-right faggot who started this thread to force political discussion into /v/ under the veil of video games?

They need to make a game where you actually play as a Templar, the two parties are extremes or peace through submission, and complete anarchy with free choice,"I have the free right to start a war".

The Assassins use violence to get THEIR way, how are they any different from the Templars who want their way through space magic. Because controlling people is bad? But the Assassins are doing that only more directly, they are killing people specifically to change history and who dont agree with their doctrine. Their actions and ambitions arent the same but the result is, they are shaping the world in their image by using violence and underhandedness to destroy their opposition, they are just more direct about it by killing the person they deem a problem.

Ubi desperately wants people to hate the Templars but the two are just bad extremes that you could play from either perspective and find things to agree on. Itd all be intersting if the games werent such steaming shit.

>>388113349
which ones want to kill niggers?

>>388122462
Templars had fingers in both pies
Assassins just stab people

>>388123552
It's called Assassin's Creed: Rogue

Series is pretty stupid once they killed Des because he choose to not become Jesus 2.0 WHY WOULD I NOT WANT TO BE JESUS FUCK THESE KIDNAPPERS

>>388123385
Yeah Edward was immature, but it still never really shows the assassins as fully in the right, as they never fully accept edward, and only really care about getting the observatory for their own ends, just like the templars and edward.

>>388123595
neither really, templars supported slavery in their own time, but their own ideology has changed too overtime, you may even find high ranking female templars

>>388123743
AND THATS why I'll appreciate Black Flag and how the prequel(and rogue) was superior to the events that came afterwards. It felt more real, more concrete in what we understand as morality and human understanding.

It's a shame AC3 couldn't hold a candle to the dynamic of Edwards life journey and interactions with he assassins and Templars. I like watching the assails rebuild and refocus themselves on the right path, it's why the exit trilogy was such an experience for me, even if it started to get stale by the 3rd game.

>>388123626
Oh? I thought that was just a Black Flag spinoff, as in, you play as an assassin in a different setting with boats still.

>>388123638
I swear. Everytime /v/ has an Assassin's Creed thread, it's literally filled to the brim with people who know jack shit about the game.

>Minerva and Juno give Desmond a choice.
>He can A: Save humanity but risk becoming like Jesus and having people use his image and sacrifice to repeat the human cycle of power and lies.
>Or B: Let the world burn.
>Desmond sacrifices himself to save humanity, wanting to have faith that maybe this time things will be different, that people can be better. Dies knowing that humanity will get another chance to make choices and is at peace with that.

How is he not Jesus again?

>>388124302
You play as an assassin who becomes disillusioned with the order and you join the Templars, nearly wiping out the assassins and painting the way for Assassin's Creed 3.

>>388124462
As much as I like rogue, I found it a big game of misunderstandings.

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>Black Flag
>be a pirate, no assass bullshit
>halfway through he joins the assass
I should've really expected this since it was an Assassin's Creed game.

>Anarchy vs Totalitarianism

Neither.

>>388123207
still over 1000 years before the templars or assasins existed

>>388124462
Wasn't the becoming Jesus only if Desmond lets the world burn and afterwards, he would then help and lead humanity to rebuild only for the cycle to repeat itself? The whole point was to either save humanity but let Juno gets what she wants or let everything burn to spite Juno.

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>>388124938
>Black flag
>Ah yes, I recognize you are part of the secret order of assassins by the well known uniform you wear.

>>388124598
That's what the series has always been about though.

People misunderstanding, misrepresenting and misleading others using history and historical figures to advance their own ideological beliefs. They literal abuse of knowledge.

/pol/ would call it the most ironic game ever because it too plays with knowledge and iconic figures for it's own narrative. They're also stupid enough forget the game is fiction.

>>388125086
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Desmond_Miles#Sacrifice

We're both right and wrong. The choices are basically.

>Juno wants total domination over humanity. Saving the world from the solar flare would also release her to try and take over humanity. Enslaving them like in ancient times when the gods roamed the Earth.
>Let solar flare engulf the world, wipes out most of humanity but he becomes the messiah, but humanity will eventually twist that to repeat the cycle of corruption and power. IE: Perpetuate the Templar/Assassin conundrum.

>>388111618
Your young adult years side with the Assassins
Your adult years side with the Templars

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>Karl Marx DLC

Oh the irony of it all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWhc6KGu11E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHXatP8kCSQ
best character in the series, in the game with the worst protagonist

>>388124182
>Black flag felt real
What? Nigger you have two factions blaming you for doing something that effectively benefited them and acting like you owe them shit for it.

Templar go full retard
>Hey this guy is good enough to kill Walpole and find his way to us, maybe we should keep hi- NAH FUCK IT KILL HIM

Assassins go full retard
>Hmmm the guy killed someone who betrayed us and then acted in his natural self interest, let's pretend he is literally Hitler and responsible entirely for us fucking everything up, surely guilting him will work :^)

>>388126073
>NAH FUCK IT KILL HIM
they don't even do that, they send him the gallows
after all he's seen and heard, instead of slicing his throat and throwing him in a ditch.
Let's not expect too much of vidya writing.
>spend all AC2 killing city guards left and right
>"Joo keeled ma family but Imma spare your life because I am not a morderer like you"

>>388111618
Assassins

No one however selfless will give up their own livelihood and the templars who are at the "top" will always be at each others throat trying to be the one who is really in control. Also if the templars put all the effort they put into being manipulative cunts into actually building that world they want they would have it.

seeing as how Assassins universally are anarchists verging on communists, Templars are objectively right

>>388126073
Surprise, surprise, the world owes you jack shit but somehow you owe it everything and need to be able to grow as a person and overcome life's adversity whether it's from order or chaos to find the things you truly find worth living and fighting for.

That came in the form of Edward wanting to settle the score with the sage for the sake of the world and then making sure he can take care of his daughter. How is this not understandable.

>>388113349
>free will is paramount
>are bros with Karl fucking Marx
fucking kek

>>388123915
even templars recognise how good women are at manipulating

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>>388111618
Assassins: Anarchists
Templars: Authoritarians

>>388126838
From a character perspective the actions of the templar and assassins make no fucking sense though, and the core problem here is that this was sacrificed for Edwards "plot" which ends up being vapid anyway.

>>388126783
>allowing a bunch of rich old fascist fucks to control the earth because OOOOOOH LEFTISTS R 2 SCARY 4 ME

>Haytham points out in AC3 that the Assassins are more than happy to kill bad people and tear down oppressive institutions, but never build anything up
>no rebuttal is given for this
>the series never presents the Templars as anything other than cartoon villains ever since

Shoot me.

>>388123743
Edward constantly told the assassins to fuck off and went for treasure, when he ended up in the observatory he was scared and became an assassin.

>>388113349
so it's kinda like commies vs libtardians

>>388127075
Templars are the good boys in Rogue.

>>388122249

?????

The Assassins and Templars don't map onto left and right, they map onto anarchist and authoritarian. There's a reason political compasses have four quadrants.

>>388127042
>rich
>old
>fascist
none of these things are bad

>>388126783
>Oh shit, Karl Marx worked with the protagonists. It's le Communism. XD
>Oversimplifies and misrepresents what the Assassins are.
You're an idiot. They used Karl Marx to advance their own cause. They didn't adopt his ideology and dumped him when it was time to, so they could go fight the Templars on another front.

>>388111618
Both are wrong, one go full law and the other full chaos

>>388127363
Old is, actually, since your brain is literally decaying at that point.

>>388127242

Here's what pissed me off about Rogue; I've wanted a Templar game for ages that shows the points they have and the flaws in the Assassins' reasoning. Instead, I got a game where the Assassins go full retard and then the Templars just murder them.

>tfw Unity could've been about what happens when you tear down the old order and empower the masses without someone in control, as a whole critique on the validity of the Templars and the flaws of the Brotherhood
>instead we got absolute shit

>>388127412
>le no rules le no rulers we are le good pirates and le good street gang members XDDDD
Asssassins are fucking stupid and their kiddie ideology has never worked out before and never will

>>388126852
They also had Nicolo michveli (can't his name atm) as a assassin. The order has a odd ball collection of choice

Templars = French royal family
Assassins = Robespierre

One is stable and while the people suffer to a degree there is little bloodshed
The other is complete bloody and violent chaos that simply drives the simple minded masses into the arms of another authoritarian
Face it, Assassinfags, people are too stupid not to be ruled. They will always always always embrace authoritarians and strongmen in times of chaos and danger.

>>388127075
What was the Ezio trilogy than? I can agree that by haythams time, the assassins in charge of the Americas were a shadow of their former selves and paid dearly for it in Rogue.

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Face it......this was the best game in the series and it was complete shovelware.

Also the first game where you play as the good guys.

>>388127734
if anything Machiavelli would be a Templar. It's pretty clear that Ubisoft has very little formal philosophical education on any of the themes they're trying to broach.

Neither is ultimately right, but they correct each other. The Templars stand for security, but also for stagnation. The Assassins stand for freedom, but also anarchy. It's their constant tug of war that drives society forward but keeps it from going over the brink.

>>388111618
>Conservashits vs Libshits
both should end desu

>>388127942

God, I fucking hate the writing in the Ezio games. You get the Templars at their most comedically, saturday morning cartoon over-the-top evil, and the heroic Assassins come in to save the day with the power of building brothels and murdering people in the streets.

>>388128067
Sounds like an average GTA plot

And we can agree to disagree. I like both the trilogy, Black flag, rogue and to some extent, the first assassins creed and Unity.

>>388127734
>>388127961
you're both wrong, "Machiavelli is a traitor" is plot in 2 and Brotherhood and when that's over he says he admires (or another word whatever) Cesare. Also isn't The Prince presumably based on Cesar Borgia in the first place? They couldn't rewrite history and say Machiavelli ideologies were about a greater good than what he wrote

Assassin's are anarchists.

Templars are fascists.

Templars are clearly better.

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>>388124938
>That cocktease at the start where it looked like he might get chummy with the templars
>plot line immediately abandoned after the next cutscene

>>388128450
I think it suited Black flag plot and Edwards overall character. He's like a chaotic good that tries to attain neutrality and kinda does by the end.

If anything, the ones that Fucked it up was AC3.

>that entire prologue was golden
>get stuck with angst Indian mutt yelling after Lee

>>388111618
Neither
Society only progresses and exists because of the conflict of both

With one side winning things would eventually collapse, with the opposing side eventually resurging or reincarnating as a matter of necessity, potentially entirely unrelated to the previous entity.

>>388128908

AC3 actually had interesting writing (namely the Templars shitting on the Assassin philosophy at every turn) but was ruined by a tutorial that lasts for half the game and some truly awful gameplay.

>>388127595
The masses were lead by the bourgeois who stood to gain the most with the nobility and clergy gone. Once the king died, the people still had to go toil away for scraps, they still had to endure the consequences of the choices made by an elite that was still well above them.
In Unity, Germain and a faction within the order manipulate the people by creating food shortages, provoking riots and aggravating them. They work to get rid of the old order that had them make a truce with the assassins and try to whisper things in the kings ear to steer the country in their direction. With the revolution, the old order makes way for Germain's order.
The problem is that all of this comes second to Arno's daddy issues and incestual lust.
They botched it and wasted a huge setting.
Real shame, they could have made a napoleonian cycle that would have been interesting.

>>388111618
Both of them are literally the same shit, different colors.
Rogue was proof of this.

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The Assassins became less cool when the Templars also have fags doing parkour

>>388114628
The Templars were wrong in 1, but so were the Assassins.

Only Altair was right.

>>388113349
Templars are also brutal and violent, arguably more so

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>>388130710
The Assassins became less cool when this guy showed up.

>>388130710

This.

They mechanically became the same in game, and even in story their methods tended to cross over.

Someone else mentioned it above, but the French Revolution was utterly wasted. When you look at how that little shitfit in Paris changed political situation on the planet, it really should have been THE game changer in terms of the AC story/universe.

Both factions should have really broken down during the turmoil and evolved into new and less defined visions of their former selves. The line between who represents law and who is chaos becomes fuzzy.

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>>388131550
that Elise though

>>388130710
That started back in Brotherhood,