What killed mmo's? What can we do to make them fun again?

>>387898497
>What killed MMOs?
They are not fun anymore.

They're still fun.

>>387898497
Data mining and sites telling you where everything is and how to do everything. They sucked all the adventure out of them.

Or maybe I'm just getting old.

>>387898497
Mobages

Because i worship JANNNNUUUUU

File: 1499457842312.png (198KB, 526x503px) Image search: [Google]

198KB, 526x503px

High risk high reward.

Consider why Blizzard killed their Titan MMO:

They realized they could make games like Hearthstone which is thousands of times easier to maintain and program than it is to code and maintain an MMO while at the same time, earn as much money.

It's just not worth it to make a traditional MMO anymore.

>>387898497
>What killed mmo's
WoW

File: Elder Tale.jpg (2MB, 1806x3797px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1806x3797px

Make Elder Tale a reality.

>>387898497
Pay to win and overall cash shop advantages, mobas bringing in twitch bucks, and the communities themselves.

Make cash shop vanity items only and putting effort into the atmosphere itself can keep people hooked. The story doesn't even have to be good if the gameplay isn't bad and the world is worth exploring.

>>387898497
Nobody tries to innovate anymore.
MMO's cost too much for execs/investors to try and do something new and instead they all stick with whats safe and slap a new coat of paint on it.
I would personally like to see some form of science based mmo game instead of the endless fantasy were seeing now. Doctors/Biologists/Chemists as support classes that offer utility and healing, Different variations of soldiers for combat purposes, Engineers for bunker building trenches and other stuff. Group vehicles with turret emplacements, dedicated engineering duties and more.

Also too many mmo's assume they NEED to have a story and just end up having some sort of half ass story tacked on to go with the player progression, but if you just make it where the core gameplay is fun then a story is really not needed. Sure you can add lore stuff to the game and have a background plot but you really dont always need to be the hero out to save the world/galaxy. Let players craft their own stories while interacting with the world, those are always the most memerable in my opinion

>>387900117
That looks like fucking trash. Japan cant into what makes a good MMO

>>387899934
Is not of what but where they can play the game.

MMOs are like console games that you can only play and show off(online) while at home.

If anything, MMOs should have some elements that can be accomplish on smartphones like trading post and crafting(with reference to GW2). OR using your character(s) for some turn based gameplay on your bloody smartphone.

>>387898497
casuals, next question.

>>387900117
Or do you mean making the world a better place?

The two biggest changes that I've seen are:
- people don't do things unless you reward them for it --- something being fun isn't good enough
- interacting with other players is seen as a negative instead of a positive

>>387900597
Sounds like ffxiv.

>>387900117
>bard
>uses scythe
this is shit

>>387901635
Well, ya got me. I'm in love with it. I know someone will try and point out the flaws of the classes or bring up raids. But I'd like to see a valid counter to experiencing running through South Shroud and the atmosphere presented as not being worth the try.

There are jump potions, but they dont give a leg up against other players. The only real advantage item I think would be 2 seater mounts since obtaining them in game is nothing short of tedious.

>>387898497
What was already said before but i'd add
>lack of funds
Players want more more and more for always cheaper and bitch when you dare to ask for money, the only peoples who bring money to the table are whales.

>>387899227
agreed
and 'leaks' also kill a lot of hype for new content imo

>>387900117
Isn't this just the most basic and generic mmo with a coat of weeb on it?

>>387902451
It is but compared to sword art online the game actually feel like a real game.

>>387898497
They were never alive, wow was a one off freak.

File: 1423074847961.jpg (89KB, 634x580px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 634x580px

Things mmos do that are shit;
>Floaty movement (gw2)
>Stuck in animationas (Tera)
>Everything is voiced (Every fucking mmo ever since WoW because they think it's a cool gimmick for some reason)
>Main quest that takes you through the whole game in a linear path (To give the voice acting a purpose)
>Semi-cutscenes covering the whole screen for quests (gw2, FF14)
>Dungeon finder (Makes the world feel smaller and removes a sense of adventure)

Modern mmos don't really change up much either. It's either grindy asian garbage, or it's WoWlike.
Vanilla WoW was still the best, even with all of its flaws

>>387903330
Oh also, all races start in the same area.
Maybe I just got spoiled by WoW, but it makes levelling a new character a lot more boring since you do the exact same content every time.

The only mmo I enjoyed was ro2. I guess it's the lore and world building that made it memorable for me.

>>387898497
Make one, just one, with good gameplay. They fucking blow.

>>387898497
>What killed mmo's?
Blizzard making them popular

>>387900117
>monk
>claws
in to the trash it goes

>>387902451
>>387902748
Novels explained it as a really detailed game with a lot of shit to do, roleplaying sounded really fun in it.

>>387903705
rip wildstar

>>387903330
also:
>shit combat
the only exeption i can think of is Tera

the fanbase ruined them

I remember playing aion in the level 55 cap zone and the "first" area was deemed pve only and if you went there to kill enemy faciton you got banned, that rule didn't exist in any other version except for eu/na

i went there and killed generals afk in town and got banned when i decided to quit

File: 1495569799078.png (79KB, 1050x435px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 1050x435px

>>387903913

>>387899227
this and pay to win and the younger playerbase demanding instant gratification

>>387900117
I wish, I'd be all over Druid.

>>387898497
The playerbase, honestly.

What made them fun in the past was the illusion that there was a simulated world to immerse yourself in.
In reality, there's just fetch quests and mindnumbingly bad hotkey based combat to grind with.

>>387898497
Wikis, meta, datamining, focus on the endgame raids other than the whole package, damaged communities thanks to things such as AH, LFD, etc.
Take your pick.

I can't remember which game but when you party with a newbie you get quite a bonus and this actually helped the newbies to get around as well.

>>387903913

Wildstar is going to be the next city of heroes in terms of a game with shit luck that has a really dedicated little fanbase that got screwed over by NCSoft and development problems.

>>387898497

I played wow for years and several other mmos afterwards, switching constantely, and let me tell you what i miss most from that bloody mess that is wow: group identity.
Back in wow, i felt part of the Alliance, then part of my Guild, and part of my crew. Even when the dungeon finder cut off all the fun that was haggling for getting a group togheter, i still felt like a piece of a mosaic. Doing my part, having fun, bantering, laughing, mostly dying tho'.
No other massive game made me fell like this. While in wow i cared for my pals, even those i never met before or those i never saw again, while i cared for quests, for equipment, for what the game offered, i found me almost quickplaying every other mmo, skimming trough texts, getting some builds, not giving a shit about nothing. Planetside 2 came close to make my heart beat again, but even there, i could stand playing for an hour, two tops.
In wow? Boy howdy how many times i lost the track of time.
The only game that seems to recapture those vibes now is Sea of Thieves, even in a smaller, way less massive scope.

>>387898497
Everquest. Destroy the theme park genre.

>>387904270
>tfw the greater popularity of the internet was a detriment to mmos and games in general
Sure you can ignore metas and wikis, but no one else will.

A good mmo must be capable of creating nostalgic elements. They should stop focusing on muh graphics but add more effort in story building, likeable npcs and actual good ost. With that you can have mostly quality player base.

>>387898497
Nothing just let them die in peace

MOBAs have kinda died down but can the character FPS die too?

Just stop releasing broken equipments that completely outclasses the current meta of a game every 2 weeks. That shit is just too ruthless.

>>387905609
Name one game that does this.

>>387898497
Too much focus on action combat in a genre that's well known for optimization issues and server stutter/lag being fairly common. Too much focus on luring in players to play new content for a week, then leave for months instead of content that keeps an actual steady playerbase. Too much pandering to antisocials who shouldn't even be in this fucking genre in the first place. Too much pandering to "muh graphics" fags which always leads to very poor performance in every game which in turn leads to lower sales/interest in the game. Advertising should be done by word of mouth, coming from players who enjoy the game instead of paid reviewers who care more about PRETTY GRAFIX instead of actual good gameplay and world design.

Too much focus on PvP balance and streamlining classes instead of making each class feel like their own thing. F2P is a cancer that attracts the lowest quality human beings which in turn ruins the enjoyment of the game itself. Too much focus on endgame content, which is always linear shortlasting garbage like raids. Endgame should offer lots of content to all players of all kinds, from those who like to casually cruise through missions to powergamers who enjoy polishing the character builds, to people who enjoy large team fights, and even players who want to be distracted in a grueling 8 hour dungeon. Too much instant gratification bullshit, no games with GMs or devs that sometimes drop into the game and play with their playerbase.

Games never seem to have customizable difficulty options. Not enough variety in generic enemy types, only raid bosses and important main story bosses ever actually feel like you need some sort of plan to fight against. Teamplay should be encouraged and not shoved down your throat, give exp/loot bonuses to those who play in groups and make it so powers that debuff/buff can be stacked from multiple players so there's actually a reason to have more than one of each class type.

>>387900884

Fucking this. I'm not sure why every MMO doesn't have some sort of smartphone app that lets you manage your inventory and list things for sale while you aren't at home.

I remember when I was playing PSO2 and they released an app that was kinda shitty that kinda sorta tied into the main game in ways I forget, but once I found out you could feed your mag with it I downloaded it instantly.

>>387902156

Wat? Theres a 2 seater mount you can actually get ingame someway? How? As far as I knew the only 2 seaters you could get you had to pay real money for.

File: 320px-Psonline_title.png (126KB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 320x240px

>>387898497

I can have a better experience playing a game from 2000 than a current MMO. Somehow this fossil of a game manages to be more fun and more satisfying to play than any modern MMO. This, despite its dated graphics and mechanics.

I had a neat idea for this. We need to have a Disgaea MMO. Its the perfect setup for the slow grind and acquisition of power. Not to mention, you have the perfect setup to make it an Ultima Online level free for all. Think about it. High-level players duking it out for that sweet Overlord title, massive raids that actually require a team with some build variety, it could be great.

What didn't kill MMO's
>"Theme Park" design philosophy, "Sandbox" design is just retard speak for "I want to grief level 5 players on my level infinity character"

What did kill MMO's
>Oversaturation of the market
>Botting ruined open world content, requiring all meaningful content has to be instanced, open world content is easy and useless as a result
>Third worlders / Chinese flooding in and shitting up the place
>Extreme Casualization and not bettering core gameplay alongside it, just dumb everything down
>On the other hand, extreme overcomplication when it comes to systems design, look how many currencies there are in a fucking MMO nowadays
>Lack of updating core gameplay, Wildstar tried to do this and did it somewhat successfully but fucked up with an artstyle literally nobody liked and a generally uninteresting world. BnS tried this but fucked up with group content and also nobody likes chinese aesthetics
>Datamining, leaking, people learning more about games in general and lack of player ignorance

>>387898497
>What killed mmo's?

too much focus on graphics rather than gameplay
i.e. Black Desert Online.

File: 1468420088967.jpg (305KB, 1152x1000px) Image search: [Google]

305KB, 1152x1000px

>>387908181

Man I miss this game.

File: mist-xg-2s.jpg (251KB, 742x1050px) Image search: [Google]

251KB, 742x1050px

>>387898497
Age of information and datamining

That sense of wonder people felt back in 2005, exploring a vast online world with other people and figuring shit out, will never ever happen again. Everyone has already had their first MMO/Online gaming experience, and every piece of information is readily available online, there is no adventure

One aspect I haven't seen too many people mention yet is the community aspect. A lot of players nowadays seem to want to have a solo experience rather than actually play with other people despite playing an explicitly multiplayer game. To take that complaint in a more specific direction, I enjoyed games where that multiplayer aspect played more of a factor in combat, like with combo skills that are found in games like Everquest 2 and Final Fantasy XI. Heck, even Lord of the Rings Online had a similar thing even if it was tied to being activated only by one class and was just pressing a colored button. I like that kind of stuff because it makes me feel like I'm actually playing with other people and not just playing my character without paying attention to what the others are doing.

>>387903330
>>Floaty movement (gw2)
In the case of GW2 this is actually an illusion due to the animations. The actual movement has no inertia to it at all.

I'd say a better example of floaty movement would be B&S as well as BDO.

>>387900801
>core gameplay of a mmo
>fun
It was never about the gameplay, it's always shit. What's important is the world itself and existing in it with other players. The problem is the whole mmo part isn't as appealing as it used to be, now you have facebook and everything is always online and interconnected. MMO just don't provide anything really special anymore. You can just play hearthstone and go on reddit. It's the same thing, except you don't have to wait or grind.

File: Seasidea.jpg (2MB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1600x1200px

>>387910139

>Character classes instantly recognizable at a glance even if they look different
>Quests can be as bite-sized or as long and drawn out as you care
>Quests have a definite endpoint instead of constantly funneling you into doing more pointless shit (like in most MMOs)
>Leveling to "endgame" doesn't take a fucking age
>No bullshit timewasting mechanics found in other online games (corpse running, ganking/world PVP, "professions," traveling long distances at slow speeds, etc)
>Skill based enough that you can play whatever class you like and still be viable
>Cool gear and equipment is mostly "toys" rather than being mandatory to progress in the game
>"Bread and Butter" gear is pretty easily acquired and is useful for the entire game

I've tried playing lots of recent MMOs but for some reason I always go back to PSO.

i could fix wow
>add a global chat
>delete lfd
>get rid of pathfinder achievments for flying
>make all zones scale to player level, all of them
>add a real follower mechanic/waifu simulator

>>387912162
>>387908181
not an mmo

Hey /v/ lets all play a mmo together

File: Myles-Dyson-Gamification.jpg (69KB, 567x366px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 567x366px

What games can I play to make friends without going outside now that they're dead?

>>387912162
also, a note with wow, the zone design now fucking sucks. the current xpac has not a single aesthetically interesting zone

File: Screenshot 2017-08-22 at 12.22.19.png (257KB, 1360x677px) Image search: [Google]

257KB, 1360x677px

>>387912286

>not an mmo
>"Phantasy Star Online is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) developed by Sonic Team and published by Sega for the Dreamcast in 2000 and Japan and 2001 worldwide."

>>387912646
The zones are great but they get ruined by having to be built around "immersive" and "cinematic" quest lines.

>>387912302

I tried to do this. I actually thought it would be fun. I ended up linking up with one guy to play Tera but we never ended up starting.

I would actually be down to do this though, I would love to play an mmo together in a small group.

File: 1480551030900.jpg (32KB, 360x360px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 360x360px

>>387903330
Its pretty amazing that WoW movement still feels the most right for some reason. I wonder why.

>>387912854
you play in instances in a group of at max 4 people. that is hardly anything massive about that. it's just another online multiplayer game akin to diablo and monster hunter

>>387912856

No, the zones are ruined by endless ganking, being huge for the sake of being huge, and bad quests that make you hate going to the interesting places they take you to.

>>387903330
The biggest problem with WoW is each area feels like a big disconnected bowl

>>387912854
wikipedia don't know shit about genres

>>387913250
The newer zones are a lot better about that. Probably because they use more islands.

>>387899227
>>387904072
/thread

>>387904183
Playerbase is the only thing that still keeps Ultima alive, so go figure

>>387898497
convenience

File: 1474540439934-a.gif (964KB, 720x720px) Image search: [Google]

964KB, 720x720px

Easy solo content and raids is what killed the magic.
All "open world" pve content in mmo is designed around solo players, so there is no reason to actualy trying to meet and interact with other players.
Raids are cancer that is killing endgame.
It's divide community.
Raid is a boogeyman for any newcomer, there always a "git gud" guys who would bitch about everything no matter if they carry or been carried.

The simple explanation is that they were never popular, and they reached their peak with WoW, but everyone always realizes that the games are set up to be a never-ending rat race to get the best of everything, and it ultimately feels like a second job instead of a game that you play for fun and leisure.

There needs to be less focus on the hamster wheel and more on the open world. Let players decide what they want to do instead of giving us one or two big goals to work towards. In WoW you had two options, PvE and PvP, after leveling your character through linear quest areas. You could choose certain things like what professions you wanted and what class and spec you wanted to play, but that had no bearing on what you actually got to do when you reached the level cap.

>>387907343
Costs 10 gold chocobo feathers that you can get from either recruit a friend or when they were holding the "GTFO the popular server faggots" event. Called an Amber Draught Chocobo.

No Innovation

Healer dps tank is really lazy design. Dps shouldn't be the most played because they're the most fun.

>>387913140

That's meant to be a bad thing..?

Last time I checked, 95% of the time you play an MMO it's effectively a single-player game anyway, and most of your interactions with other players are not positive (such as being killed by another player, or having to compete for kills/drops for quests). The other 5% of the time is divided up like this.

>4.99% spent in small groups of 5 or less doing instanced dungeons or quests
>.01% spent in groups larger than 5 doing raids

If the point of an MMO is the multiplayer aspect, as in people ACTUALLY playing together and not just existing in a world together and playing their respective single-player games, most MMOs fail hard.

SWTOR lead the way

Give players actual role-plying ability and the agency to create factions that can act like ones that exist in the real world,making deals, conquering territory,setting uptrade and commerce, building structures and settlements. You should be able to play an MMO as a 100% non-combatant and still have fun trading stuff and building your own little empire.

Make solo play viable,but have the exact same weaknesses that exist if you you were really in a world-vulnerability to groups of hostile players and strong wildlife/enemies, etc. You can do it, but it should be hard,not easy.

MMO's are dead. The Destiny MMO/shooter hybrid is the future. Buy Destiny 2

>>387898497
Pay 2 win
The string of massive flops of "big" titles with big budget (Conan, TORtanic, D&D MMO, TES barely scrapping by) few years ago
Lack of any innovation for past decade
Collapse of few Korean MMO-making companies (no, really) by early '10s

>>387898497
Casuals. Casuals moved in and took everything from us.

>>387914674
Ultima is still alive, anon. You should try it, despite it being probably older than you.

>>387914906
TES online is actually doing well now,it's making decent money according to zenimax. flawed game, has a few interesting ideas but it's pretty generic in most of its particulars. ironically it has some features much better than recent vanilla bethesda rpgs (racial armor styles,dyes, the way combat works is imperfect but still a lot more dynamic than skyrim was)

>>387915127
It's honestly not even casuals. It's full blown normalfags, people who never had any interest in anything the MMORPG genre had to offer just came in and started whining that this community-focused, socially balanced genre has too much focus on social aspects. Casuals at least play the game with others and have fun doing it, while normalfags bitch that a Massively Multiplayer Online game has multiple players and is online. It's like playing a fucking shooter and bitching that it has too much of a focus on gunplay.

Warhammer Online had everything to fix MMO genre.
Ofc, EA fucked it up.

>>387898497
pay 2 win
pay 2 progress
pay for convenience

>>387898497
>make grouping a requirement to do more things, no dungeon finder bullshit
>make crafting difficult/time consuming and require mats/items only other professions have access to in order to facilitate community interaction/trading, no more making 5 alts to do the other professions you need
>make classes more unique than "melee dps, ranged dps, dot focused dps" etc. give classes different unique niches that greatly differentiates them from other classes, go beyond just combat
>stop hamfisting story into everything, just make a breathing world that you're dropped into instead of this constant "you are the great hero of legend just like the other 100k players" bullshit
>get rid of quest based grinding, go back to grouping/grinding mods being the best way of getting xp. quests should offer unique rewards with varied, intricate requirements instead of the standard "go here kill x of these and bring me y of z"

doing these things would help immensely

>>387912162
>>387908181
>>387910139

I have been trying to find the track for the first hub in a city forever.

Is there any way to play this today on private servers?

>>387916514
>just make a breathing world that you're dropped into instead of this constant "you are the great hero of legend just like the other 100k players" bullshit
so much this

>>387903330
>>Everything is voiced (Every fucking mmo ever since WoW because they think it's a cool gimmick for some reason)
Maybe newer mmo's or just western mmo's. There's still a shit ton out there that aren't voiced.

>>387898497
Get rid of hard caps.
>Stop here. Grind for 5 hours to continue.

VOIP, never have I seen so many people refuse to type short hand just because they rather say it over a mic.

>>387917304

https://ephinea.pioneer2.net/

Here you go anon, see you on Ragol.

>>387914674

What you describe is great to discuss, but very niche, since most players are stupid scumfuck normies. No developer will ever spend money to do something like that.

>>387898497
For me personally, I can't start an MMO, because I know I'm going to screw something up.

I used to play RO, so i know in every MMO there is a place that
>is best for grinding
>a class that is best at doing this grind
>is best for getting items
>a class that is best for getting items
>a class/multiple classes that are best for pvp
>a class/multiple that is best for pve
>maybe even for different kinds of pve
>a different, best way to build/equip these classes

I can't look at any mmo anymore with the sense of adventure. I feel like

>Am i doing this wrong?

Maybe it's just me.

>>387914050
This is the real reason mmos are failing. Not because of gameplay not because of story, when you play a game for 1000 hours those will get stale no matter what. Its the fact that every new development, party autofinder, wiki, discourages players from having to interact meaningfully. I remember playing an mmo, and when I used a party find it matched me with people CROSS SERVER, people I could never play with again. What's the point? There are hundreds of better single player games I could be playing that don't require a subscription.

>>387898497
They need to be more childish, to attract and be played by the only people who really can play them : The people with no jobs.

>>387916514
I agree with most of this, especially the class bit.
Add in some customization in playing the classes and it would be fun.

As for the story, maybe not a full story, but small questlines that hint at an overall world plot would be cool.
Maybe have the occasional world event that actually has an impact on things. Prices of certain materials can change, some areas become higher/lower leveled, etc.

>>387916514
>make grouping a requirement to do more things, no dungeon finder bullshit
Yay, the return of being one of the top dps on a server, and not able to get a group in 6 hours while the player base for said mmo was high, and being at that point in the game where there is nothing to do solo so the group is necessary.
>make crafting difficult/time consuming and require mats/items only other professions have access to in order to facilitate community interaction/trading, no more making 5 alts to do the other professions you need
Make the literal worst part of the game even more tedious than it already is. come on, what's the next genius idea you have.
>make classes more unique than "melee dps, ranged dps, dot focused dps" etc. give classes different unique niches that greatly differentiates them from other classes, go beyond just combat
And here we go, you now want to segment the classes in a way that WILL not may, will make them useless.

You make two good points though. fuck the story and lore being shoved at me, I like the storys where I am one of thousands, but I am still important in my story, but fuck you telling me I need to get this badger ass to make miguffin and it will be the only one in existance 3 years after everyone else already did the quest.

And fuck story based experience. You should get it by doing, not finding what quests reward the most.

you want to know what? I think the mmo genre is effectively dead for a few reasons

1) the games are expensive as fuck to make now
2) you need to much content to make someone stay on
3) once you are 3 expansions deep, you either need to fast track people, or you need or you need accept you will never have new players

casuals didn't kill mmos, keeping an mmo alive post level cap raising and gear checking expansions killed mmos.

>>387919219
>i don't like MMOs but i want to play things called MMOs even if they aren't MMOs

ok

>>387919219
Idiot, if you were the top DPS of the server and quests were actually challenging and rewarding you wouldn't have trouble finding parties. Though I'm suspecting its more because you only play for grinding through the content as autopilot as possible, and are likely a very boring person.

>>387898497
Modern MMO expansions are almost always about pushing the end game further while providing very little low to mid game content. So even when interest is temporary raised when a new expansion comes out, they don't really secure many new or returning players who have to somehow bring themselves to a viable level to explore the new content. Solutions like making high level expansion-starter equipment easily available or paying for an instant level raise trivializes character development and set poor expectations for the grind they're stepping into.

File: iok9jyuarwiy.jpg (26KB, 386x381px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 386x381px

Bring PSU:AoTI back with more polish but all the same systems and a little less grindy. Easily the most creative jobs/classes (especially the acro classes and protranser) out there and way ahead of their time, also like 30 different weapon types that are mostly all pretty different from each other to make everything have a niche/use and fun. And even in those 30 different weapon types and letter rankings of them, a lot of specific weapons in them has attributes to make them different than the rest in its class or ranking.

>>387919682
I feel like expansions trying to get people interested by introducing some new gear and some spectacle new endgame raids are completely missing the point of what keeps players in a game, which is the social aspect. They rarely make any strides to improve the system after the release of the game.

>>387898497
People's nostalgia over WoW moments they will never have again because they aren't children, and people judging every other mmo based on what are essentially fantasies at this point.

Also tab targeting cast time global cooldown auto combat.

>>387904054
I'm actually surprised more ailing MMOs don't go the XIV method of nuke if from orbit and try again as opposed to just letting it limp along barely making any kind of profit a crowded F2P market. It is financial risk of course, as you might fuck it up again but unlike most other games you can afford to attempt a do-over since if you hype it enough plenty of people will resub both for your Armageddon party of seeing the game world die and the subsequent rebirth afterwards.

>>387919682
The worst part about modern MMO expansions is that they push the endgame further, instead of just expanding on the endgame. Expansions need to give people more content and more options, not make old content worthless to push more towards the new content. Older MMOs that didn't raise the level cap had so much content that you always had something to do. If you were burned out on doing X, you could always do Y, or try out Z for the first time, maybe even go back and play through B or C for a bit. Now MMOs are "do X or Y for a few months and on our next expansion we'll add X2 and Y2, maybe even add Z2 a few weeks later to keep people interested".

>>387919219
To go one, the perfect mmo can't have players able to make gear better than the literal in game gods you are killing are dropping, as that is profound bullshit, you could have things that improve it, components that can be crafted into something that can be added or inserted into the weapon/armor that powers it the fuck up, but you can't craft a piece of gear that is best in slot.

npcs can't just give you sword of holy fuck how did they own that, for defeating some fucking wolves in a field, there can't be a gear treadmill.

you can't force bullshit systems on players, that includes crafting, when said players just want to kill.

much of the game needs to be player driven, not npc, someone giving you a quest, unless they have a fuckign good reason, cant be stronger then you are. This would basicly have the developers at some point being the side of evil and the players being the side of good, with no real help on the devs side because oh shit, the only people qualified to deal with this situation are your guild, why the fuck would this town guard stick around longer then telling you where shit hit the fan?
>>387919449
yea, because springing on someone that they need to spend the irl equivalent of 100$ on items in a game to level crafting, and then need to have multiple parts of that shit need someone else who leveled the skill up is just the best idea ever, its like I haven't seen mmos where that takes basic group gear and now requires you to play the game like a full time job to afford it, and this is the BASIC SHIT.
or wow, is it ever fun to spend well over a week of your life sitting still lfg.
>>387919668
yea, the class I played was the class of literal retards or savants there was no inbetween and re retards outnumbered me so goddamn much it wasn't funny. the normal person playing my class would do 100-120dps, I would pull out close to 700-1200, but the retards poisoned the well so much after my normal group fell apart I could never get another.

>>387903330
Provided it is done well, voice acting is how I prefer to play an MMO. I want to be immersed into a games world, not read a bunch of flavor text.

For what it is worth, ESO and SWTOR did a pretty decent job with the voice acting. Can't say the same for SWTOR's script though.

Bad voice acting on the other hand can ruin a game. Black Desert just makes me cringe. Doesn't help that that game is also grindy as fuck. I'm tempted to go back to it since I haven't played it since they added the ability to sell items on the marketplace and because I've built a better PC since then.

World of Warcraft

And most of the people who grew up with MMOs have dedicated jobs now. Its all about the instant gratification now..... which was found in this booming genre called MOBAs

>>387898497
Make a game with as much atmosphere as Runescape 2 and cut the grinding in half

>>387920105
This. Some of the most fun I've ever had was in this damn game. That and FFXI.

>>387900117

>Monk with claw weapon

Why? Why do they always do this, I do not need some wolverine claws. I just want to punch shit with my bare knuckles. That is what is cool not duct taping steak knifes to your fists.

>>387920584
Unarmed weapons.

>>387918483
All the can be avoided just by asking on the sites forum what class is good.

>>387898497
>What killed mmo's?
WoW

>>387920981
>the
that*

MMOs don't make people work together as a party or group anymore. Open world should fuck your shit up 10/10 times if you go out alone. Everything should revolve around the Multiplayer part of MMO. Maybe we need to eliminate persistent worlds for this to happen. Go back to Guild Wars 1 style of shit.

>>387920981

>ask game forum which class is good
>everyone comes in with a different opinion
>discussion quickly devolves into everyone tearing each other a new asshole arguing about which classes are the best
>mods take notice
>get banned from game and forums for "trolling"

At least you won't have to play the game at that point.

>>387903330
>>Stuck in animationas (Tera)
Tera's combat is still fun.

Its just a shame that endgame gear is just fucking luck to get.
And once you get it good luck enchanting it, hope you enjoy spending 1000k gold in 1 piece.

>>387911109
The problem is no one has any friends with 2+ hours free a night anymore. People are just busy, or they're so hardcore they won't accept casuals.

Wow is still going strong despite the epic 2cool4school "MMOs r ded" meme and will be played even ten years from now

It's just played by crybabies and faggots now (always was, not it's just worse) more of these kids playing wow these days were raised by nutty cat ladies without a father figure so theyre all faggots

>>387898497
free to play killed mmos. the motivation for profit switched from developing a dynamic and engaging world that financially sustained itself through continous play via subscription sales turned into unregulated casinos via cash shops.

>>387922451
>. the motivation for profit

Are you saying Pay 2 Play/Sub MMOs were made out of charity and not profit?

>>387899227
>>387904072
/thread.

>>387904915
Aion had such an amazing OST but the newer tracks are painfully meh.

I'd say Levinshor flamenco was the last of its really original, good hits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DehgOkS5rJU

>>387922726
No, he's saying that with a p2p model, developers were financially rewarded by long-term player retention and had an incentive to build systems that remained fun to play for many months.

With a f2p model, the work that actually nets the development team a financial reward is designing flashy cosmetics and cash shop bonuses that remove tedious gameplay elements. Since every part of the core gameplay needs to be accessible for free, the development team quite literally does not make money by spending their time and energy working on gameplay. As such it's usually in their best interest to introduce painful elements like grinding that can be paid to be bypassed.

>>387898497

Blizzard. Blizzard is a genre-killer - RTS, isometric ARPGs, MMOs, TCGs, arena shooters. Everywhere they set foot, the mainstream lineup for the next decade is nothing but derivatives of their work.

>>387914050
I remember playing early Lineage 2, it was MMO which I played the longest. I tried couple after that, you can't attack people at all, only duels (muh bulling), can't share dungeon with randoms (muh ks), can't fight for bosses, because every one is in separate instances. Everything is in an instance or is overly protected.

In Lineage 2, there were clan clashes before raid bosses spawn, for the biggest loot. Some clans were attacking other while the former were fighting raid boss. People get killed by PK all the time, but there were always some PK hunters so you indirectly got your revenge. You could wander into dungeon or exp location and find party there, or if your party was stronger, you could push other group into less profitable parts, that was fun. So many times you were the weaker side, so you quietly gave up better location, imagining next time you will be there with your clan, or you will outlevel those guys this week. Sieges, holy shit, in open field you could be hunting for 10 lvl foxes, and now see gigantic golem breaking walls, and you were like "Wow, I can't wait to have good enough level", now at most you can is to check how it goes on Youtube.

>>387898497

Pantheon mite b coo

It's funny how most people here think that WoW was the peak of MMOs and it was downhill from there on, when it was precisely no-risk hugbox themepark MMOs like WoW overshadowing hardcore sandbox MMOs like Ultima Online that killed MMOs

File: 1361307366152.jpg (124KB, 848x900px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 848x900px

>>387898497
>131 replies
>only 5 mention of instances

you're losing your touch, /v/

>>387924765

this, WoW is quite literally the reason the MMO genre died. every underage faggot here who sub'd to wow is to blame for that. i hate you all.

>>387924765
Yeah because Everquest didn't overshadow Ultima before that and there wasn't pve servers released under major whine from playerbase either.

Sandbox mmo is unsustainable dream for mass market. It can work as niche game for niche audience, but even then majority of people playing it will be playing in designated safezones, like in eve where overwhelming majority of games population firmly resides in hisec.

>>387898497
Streamlining, restrictive metas, themeparkification, cancerous online communities and guides

>>387924498
>>387924815
Yea, it defeats the purpose of MMORPG. It alienates players, and makes it the game where MMO is only in town square, and 4ppl Coop RPG in dungeons.

>>387925193

>muh slippery slope

your post still doesn't excuse the hugbox faggotry of wow. i'm hoping pantheon strikes a decent middle ground...if it ever comes out.

>>387925225
>guides
This and Streamers and community-dominators who "set the meta" are probably the biggest issue. If people didn't try to tell people "This is the best stuff!" and spread it around like gospel on top of being able to Google literally everything, a lot of the normalcancer would probably give up on the genre (and games in general) if they couldn't look shit up and had to use their head and experiment.

File: darkfall_logo[1].jpg (24KB, 567x482px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 567x482px

Remember when a bunch of greeks were going to save sandbox MMOs?

File: 1457055182213.jpg (290KB, 1280x1080px) Image search: [Google]

290KB, 1280x1080px

>>387926018
And today you can see how the community is killing its own game while blaming everything else.

>>387925563

i dont think there was TOO much wrong with googling things. classic EQ was all very well documented, but that wasnt really the problem, the balance that needs to be struck is figuring out how to manage "crowds"/"bottlenecks" without trivializing the content/challenge (e.g. ancient cyclops waiting lists...)

>>387925481
WoW didn't have much more hugbox than most pve orientated mmos of the time. It is fair enough to hate the wow for the extreme qol that it brought to the genre and dwarfing everyone else so it becomes gold chase for wow audience. But hating it on something factually wrong is really fucking stupid.

>>387926273
That's fair as well. EQ also had some of the stupidest gimmicks that you just about needed to know about, like bosses who insta-wipe party if you say anything in local chat. In the end, it does come down to balancing everything. Here's hoping Crowfall turns out alright.

>>387922726
there's always some stupid faggot like you in one of these threads. The finanical motivation in old mmos was to keep giving players content so they would keep playing and keep paying.

The finanical motivation in today's mmos is to shovel out cosmetics, convience items, and outright best in slot gear on a weekly/monthly basis while actual content patches are 6+ months apart because content doesn't make them money: cash shop items do.

The longer this goes on, the most skewed things become. Look at archeage. An open world sandbox with tons of shit you should be able to do but what has happened in the 5 years its been running? the world map isnt even done yet, fuck the starting map isnt fucking done yet. But there are literally hudnreds of cash shop items that have been introduced on a bi-weekly basis but no game to use them in because the developers cant fucking help themselves. They shit out a cash shop item and then disapear for half a year. And when they do show up, whats the new patch? Is it new content? Nope. it's 'rebalances' and 'reworks' of existing systems. The players who played archeage in 2013/2014 are still doing the exact same shit in 2017 and they will still be doing it in 2020 if the game lasts that long. The only difference between 2013 and 2020 in archeage is the fact that one has a different set of costumes.

>>387920584
It's a balance issue, if Monks don't use weapons then they either are going to be as good or better than a fighter with the best weapons in the game or are going to just be bad fighters that start off stronger. Easier just to make fist weapons and have them work the same way.

>>387926475
Crowfall is barely MMO in the usual meaning anon. It is borderline prettied up lobby for survival crafting pvp shit.

>>387926756
Like I said, turns out alright. Cause it certainly looks more fun than generic Korean MMO # 6 billion or whatever Chronicles of Elyria is trying to be with all that autistic nonsense.

File: 1399754575330.jpg (84KB, 500x501px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 500x501px

>>387926475
>like bosses who insta-wipe party if you say anything in local chat
For what reason pray tell?

>>387912892
>>387912302

So no one wants to do this? I don't care what game it is even if I have to buy it.

Although I get why no one would want to actually play video games with people from /v/. I was hoping there would be a few people on here like me who aren't complete assholes.

>>387926695
You can make fist wraps, gloves and shit, not the overdesigned oversized claws of rainbow faggotry.

>>387898497
Casuals and the idea that everything needs to be casual, nothing should ever be challenging or require work. Everything should be simplified, there should be no diversity in stats or character build, everything should be catered to the lowest common denominator so everyone can feel like they're the big hero.

>>387926942
Hello, Sister.
And I have no idea why, probably because of that one fucko and his guild who the developers wouldn't stop pandering to.

>>387926845
You seriously might as well play some shit like Conan Exiles or Rust. There other mmo to look forward to that try to strike it oldschool. Like pantheon mentioned earlier or that Garriot mmo i always forget the name of.

Most mmo games are p2w now

I miss Luna Online so much.

The answer to your question is basically WoW. It was the peak of the genre and it brought in a bunch of casuals who complained the game was too hard and wanted to be viable even though they have a job and three kids and spend about an hour a day on the game. Blizzard started pandering to these people once they became the vocal majority of the player base. This casualized the experiemce which brought in more normies and alienated the core audience which moved on.

If you don't have time to pour into a game, MMOs are NOT for you.

>>387927541
Because charging a fucking adult $15 a MONTH is too fucking much for entertainment apparently and everyone flocked to the F2P bullshit until they realized its bullshit and dropped it. See: Every free2play mmo in the past 5 years.

>>387926018
Never played Darkfall, but I did play the alpha of that ABSOLUTE ABORTION that was Darkfall Online: Unholy Wars.

>>387927196
Casuals dindu nuthin.
No seriously, the casuals were already enjoying their casual activities without giving a shit about end game, raids and all this crap.
It's the "gamers" you should blame, they wanted pvp without unbalances unless it was in their favor, they wanted big rewards without the time investment, they wanted dungeons without the hassle of finding and talking to peoples, they wanted an mmo without the social interactions and so they cried on the forums all the fucking time and finally got what they wanted but guess what, now they complain how it was better before.

>>387916514
>make grouping a requirement to do more things, no dungeon finder bullshit
>try to group up for [quest]
>get asked if you have done it already and offer proof
>admit you haven't but know the basics because rather than getting to enjoy it blind everyone expects you to have watched a youtube of the fight
>they tell you to fuck off
>alright, make your own group then
>nobody joins it because they want to be carried
>Guild?
>unless it's reset night nobody is online or sociable
The problem is group finders are a necessity in modern MMOS because nobody would group up otherwise.

>>387927541
Name one western mmo that's p2w.

>>387928193
Albion.

>>387928235
Oh yeah that exists.

Name two.

>>387928319
Lol.

>>387928319
STO, DC Online, Champions Online

File: 590px-Spec_image_Deadeye.jpg (38KB, 590x441px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 590x441px

WoW is still fun, just not as good as BC/WotLK
GW2 is great
FF14 is great
ESO is ok

I fail to see how MMOs are "dead"

>>387926498
So fucking this
https://treeofsavior.com/page/news/view.php?n=1075
https://treeofsavior.com/page/news/view.php?n=1076
A prime example here, the game had a rebalance patch and rework of old systems recently too, more reworks comming but no news of actual new shit

Eve online is good

>>387928485
Daybreak doesn't deserve DC Online.

The way I see it is each MMO on the market right now spends all their resources getting 1 thing right, They all get one aspect of the game perfectly spot on but completely shit the bed on everything else. Just take each of those one things and shamelessly stick them together and you will have close to the perfect MMO.

>FFXIV has a perfect atmosphere/world and intuitive crafting systems
>ruined by focus on "chosen one" story, no class customization and horrendous combat

>BNS/Tera have perfect combat systems
>Boring-ass questing, Korean grindathon gear systems, open world goes completely unused at endgame

>Runescape has the perfect quest design and perfect useage of its open world
>outdated graphics and combat system

>BDO character creation
>Everyones gear is the same, classes are gender locked, the no max level bullshit that didn't work out at all

>WoW's endgame raids
>pretty much everything else Blizzard shits out

There's probably a lot more MMOs that get their specific "thing" correct that aren't coming to mind. I'm wracking my brain to think of which ones gets class customization right but none come to mind.

>>387929185
>GW2 is great
Oh hell no.

File: 1440095205192.jpg (25KB, 354x230px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 354x230px

>>387926498
>start AA
>character creation vast and stunted at the same time
>forced voices/body types on character making it not feel like your own
>boats and cars you can actually jump in/out of
>that swimming
>mount drifting
>random parts areas dont look finished at all
>amazing and mediocre at the exact same time
I'd love to play if it stopped being so bipolar with its quality

Why have no MMOs adopted the Angband model? It's what Made in Abyss, Danmatchi, and SaO have been built on as entertaining animes but nobody uses it for real games. What I mean is everyone starts off in a town, there's a big dungeon, and then you form parties to raid the dungeon for semi-randomized loot before returning to the main town where you can sell your shit to NPCs/other players and repeat for levels and xp.

>>387931119
Because at that point, it'd be easier and cheaper to make a single-player/multiplayer party-based game instead of a full-on MMO and probably make as much money.

>>387931308
You're probably right, are there any non-MMOs like that though? I really just wanna play a game with big character building variety like the old school RPGs and a sense of adventure but I'm tired of having to go to ascii games for that.

>>387930395
DC Online doesn't deserve to exist in the first place. Also the best game that SOE had and pissed away is Wizardry Online, it was one of the most refreshing games in the genre in awhile.

>>387931897
That's not Star Wars Galaxies.

>>387931782
>like that
Torchlight 1 and 2, technically. Many ARPGs are like that to some degree.
>Do dungeon
>Go back to town and vendor shit/store stuff
>In the case of MP ones, interact with other people as need be
As for what you specifically want, not that I personally know of.
Well, there's one, but it has no set release date yet and will only be run on weekends whenever it is done.

>>387931782
Kinda sorta PSO2.

File: 1489779941148.png (245KB, 681x687px) Image search: [Google]

245KB, 681x687px

What mmo is the best for someone who wants to make huge stacks of in game money and spend them on something poor people only dream of?

>>387932146
ARPG's are frustrating because the gameplay is typically shallow beyond the character building aspects. Talking about things like in Roguelikes, you know "I'm on the fire level so I need to wear fire resistant stuff or I'll take damage each turn", stuff that makes you plan ahead and bring supplies. What game are you talking about? I'm curious.

>>387932032
I meant in recent times. SWG was way too long ago in a galaxy way too far far away.

>>387920584
seriously, it's always fucking wolverine claws, dagger-fists, or fucking hulk hands
I just wanna punch shit too, man

>>387931119

You sound like you're looking for something like Diablo. PSO was almost exactly like that. You had lobbies where 100ish people just stood around and chatted and the actual game took place in instances that had 4 player groups go down and kill shit.

File: 1501892884516.jpg (17KB, 540x540px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 540x540px

>>387898497
WoW.
The real MMO market is a lot smaller than it made them look but the 'business savvy' keep pumping out clones of a game that can't be cloned.

>>387932342
>What game
Vermin Fight Club Online. TL;DR: is that one of the hosts of the Vermin Cockfights that happen here on the weekends is making a game engine that is a mix of Pokemon and dungeon exploration with permadeath for your Pokemon equivalents, but with ease of getting more. It will feature full-online along with guilds and all that fun stuff.

File: 1474902853260.png (1MB, 1000x1100px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1000x1100px

>>387932272

You could do this pretty easily in FFXIV. Theres a bonus that everyone is always complaining that they're broke and how hard it is to make money. Its not of course, people are just lazy.

Downside though is there isn't really all the much to spend money on. Just housing really.

>>387904072
>instant gratification
This isn't only making mmo's bad. It's making all vidya bad.

>>387899934
Or maybe they killed titan because they didn't want to compete with him themselves while they already have the biggest mmo out there.

>>387932868
you can always sell your gil for real money. 1 million on balmung is about $30-40

>>387932579
Sounds cool, I don't follow VFC very closely and I never finished my guy because I can't draw for shit but I'll look at it.

>>387933125
I'm sorry to hear that and yeah, if nothing else, it'll be fun whenever he finishes that.

>>387933032
>1 million on balmung is about $30-40

There's no way. You're telling me I made $300-400 dollars in a month playing FFXIV casually?

>>387933032
>you can always sell your gil for real money. 1 million on balmung is about $30-40
Speaking about things that killed MMOs - Gold farming due to real life currency trading. WoW never really addressed this properly and turned into a chinese gold farm.

>>387934229
How is that a problem for most users?

>>387935120
Depends on the game but it can really skewer the player market.

>>387935120
Extreme inflation of any in-game trading and all means to make gold are occupied by gold farmers.

>>387935120
Varies from game to game, but
>Can ruin markets by influencing in-game price with real money impact
>Gold farmers and such can hog kill locations for important drops (although any Guild can do this if the game allows it)

MMOs are a relic of the past and will never recover. There's too many points to write out so the simplest way to summarize is this; MMOs are awful for group play, weeks long tutorial/leveling, awful combat, PvE, bullshit lore not even the devs care to pretend about, too much grind, too much non-challenging pointless noise, and so on.

>>387936153
wrong on all counts

MMOs are basically a pointless time waste for people with no skills or preferences, are too scared to play PvP, and have never played an actually good video game. I promise /v/ is the only place that would miss the genre.

File: chink merchant.jpg (44KB, 501x585px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 501x585px

>>387934229
This.
MapleStory is the very definition of what happens when Chink RMT/botting spirals out of control because everything is a drop.

>Chinks buy up niche and required items
>Chinks charge jew prices for these items in the player market
>Chinks buy up competition if they undercut
>Vast majority of players can't afford these necessary/niche items the Chinks have bought up and resellling at insane prices forcing them to buy gold to afford the items
>Gold earned from these sales are used to further this spiral

>>387898497

MMOs demand large blocks of uninterrupted playtime that most players don't want to commit.

Most people would rather play a 30 minute game of league or a couple FIFA matches than spend 3 hours raiding in WoW.

Games that make less demands of players time will be the games that are more successful even as players spend more time playing them.

>>387921264
New entire system revamp coming soon to make it less RNG though. The current system is absolute garbage

>Try to get cute girl friend into MMO
>She's absolutely lost at everything a couple of minutes in
>We just go back to League because it's as simple as hitting play and probably more fun than anything an MMO can offer

>>387898497
WoW did.

File: 1496932609492.png (440KB, 645x1260px) Image search: [Google]

440KB, 645x1260px

>>387910427
>yfw when you realize it's the same IRL, everything has been explored and filed

>>387936431
>pvp mmos don't exist

ok buddy

>>387936586
There's a lot of parts of Tera that are currently garbage. Every single one of the new classes fucked the balance in PVP. PVE is re-releasing content from 2014 like it's brand new. Servers are dogshit and broken constantly.

File: 1418241282834.jpg (17KB, 203x280px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 203x280px

>>387936431
>are too scared to play PvP
All of your stupid points aside, really? See >>387937747

File: 1474219053764.gif (1MB, 430x360px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 430x360px

>>387899227
This.
Would there be any ways to prevent it?

>>387938035
PvP is dead and irrelevant in any MMO, who are you trying to fool?

>>387910427
100% this. Going back to vanilla wow when Elysium was popular just wasn't the same as playing it live. The sense of wonder, adventure and exploration wasn't there

Blade and Soul is a step in the right direction gameplay-wise.
There is a sense of community too.

>>387898497
WoW killed mmos.

>>387938652
Can't tell if you're legitimately stupid or trying to rile someone up but I am betting on the latter.

>>387938480
NDA agreements.

>>387898497
Grind games just migrated to mobile.

>>387898497
New overpowered classes ruining the balance the devs originally worked hard to achieve between their original classes, causing the older classes to get reworked around the new class which has already had at least 1 nerf but it's still overpowered because its design is inherently flawed and was made to appeal to the casual crowd that wants to have an easy and simple time dealing massive damage with little to no consequences. Repeat this for the next 3 new classes and by then the game is already dead.

>>387938034
The worst part is those newer classes are more fun than most older ones.
Ninja is probably the only time I've enjoyed a combo/rotation dps class and wasn't total ass.
Speaking of that though, why can't MMOs make proper dot classes or big dick damage dealers that aren't "look at my awesome, super tight rotation that you can't do if your ping is higher than 50"

File: WLO.png (631KB, 789x601px) Image search: [Google]

631KB, 789x601px

>>387938965
As much as I'm not a fan of mobas or generic flash games as big titles, it's understandable. The time people spend mindlessly clicking on mobs is converted to a train/bus ride or a flight. I remember playing Ragnarok Online when it was on flip phones and despite clumsy control, it was still fleshed out enough.

I'd like to see old ded games turned android though. I always hated the idea of a game going offline and lost forever. IGG went full mobile but WLO remains forgotten and falling apart. I would get an android phone in a heartbeat if it meant I could see it alive again.

The most important aspect of an MMO is its community and its literally impossible in this day and age to have a community on par with early WoW/Runescape

File: 1453481436661.jpg (241KB, 788x804px) Image search: [Google]

241KB, 788x804px

Too much emphasis on story is the problem with FFXIV right now. I feel sorry for anyone who is starting it as it's so fucking boring. They have to go through all of vanilla, then the endless dull patch content, then HW, then the patch content for that and then all of Stormblood while grinding. The quests themselves are your bog standard "go here, then all the way over here, then back here" interceded with "kill x of x, gather x of x" all with countless cutscenes. Who thought any of this was a good idea? Parts of Heavensward at least were interesting but the piss poor quests don't make up for it.

And I understand that end-game is not the be all and end all of the game but any new player can't do shit until they reach the end-game because nothing else is worth doing, and the game is completely lacking in any sense of community which is the bane of most MMO unless you drag any friends in with you.

At least in WoW you're not chained to the shitty plot to get to any new expansions.

>>387939864
Jump Potions. But what XIV needs to do is ramp up ARR's exp by an insane margin so it's entirely possible to get through it straight. I understand they want to keep people playing if they dont have HW or SB. But the content is so old and outclassed, it doesn't make any sense to keep new players chained down.

I may have to try FC+food+ala mhigan earrings+friendship circlet+exp ring to see if it'd be enough to get me through, but even still, the EXP ring is only until lv30 and you get it at about 20. Another thing they should change because why would you lock someone out of learning their class and not being horrible at dungeon content?

>>387939864
Yeah I might still be playing that if I didn't get burned out real bad trying to finish the story.

>finally hit 50
>and finish the story
>keen to move on to heavensward
>lol there's another hundred quests before that
>buy an msq skip
>levelling is fucking terrible
>buy a boost
>grind out stormblood's story
>hit 70
>uninstall

Well where to start.

>cashshops
>'f2p' instead of subs
>dungeonfinders
>le endgame is the most important meme
>people forgetting about the rp and mmo part of a mmorpg

Honestly I found an MMO I enjoyed recently but it sucks me in and requires too much time. I can't enjoy it casually, I have to be efficient and be better and it will start to affect me irl. I'm simply not a kid anymore, doesn't seem to be the games that are the problem

File: 1503271674968.jpg (164KB, 980x1037px) Image search: [Google]

164KB, 980x1037px

>>387918483
This is a problem many people have, including me. If I don't start playing mmo with the most efficient build possible I'll feel bad about being a lot weaker than people who do use it, making me a lot worse for group content and less attractive for raids and other shit.

It stopped being fun, definitely. Fucking datamining and horrible balance, making one thing OP and the second useless.

>>387898497
Literally just make a 1:1 copy of FFXI in it's prime. It was the perfect MMO.

>>387898497
They need to be fun replayable games focused on combat, character building, and player interaction. Dressup waifu grind simulators with high skillcap dungeons at max level isnt appealing to most people that arent into the mmo genre of video games.

>>387933032

You gotta be exaggerating. Granted last time I checked a million gil was like $2 on Sarg. Even still I was thinking of just selling all my gil but I'm kinda afraid of getting banned.

>What killed mmo's?
The MMO community.
>What can we do to make them fun again?
Remove normalfags like people who put random apostrophes in MMOs, say "normie", or vote from the internet.

>>387929185
>FF14 is great

ff14 locks you in with inane quests, invisible walls everywhere and repetitive dungeons. And if you just want to fight bosses? Better read the wiki and memorize the fight on youtube before you ever actually get to do the content or you'll piss everyone in your party off

>>387944050
Don't forget the hundreds of hours of crap you have to slog through before you even get to fight bosses!

>>387943029
Balmung gil s worth a lot more, I'm not sure his value was very accurate but you can expect it to be something like 10x more value than Sarg.

I miss lineage 2 with no cashshops and friends that I've made along the way that just plaid for fun

>>387898497
Blizzard saw the success of EQ and thought, "What if we took EQ and made it completely soloable and extremely casual?".

Blizzard then released World of Warcraft to great success enticing people who normally couldn't dedicate enough time to MMOs before it.

The issue here is that World of Warcraft broke all the rules of what makes MMOs MMOs.
>No need for player interaction
>Extensive use of built-in fast travel (not player run)
>No penalty upon dying
>Monsters aren't difficult to kill nor pose any danger
And it only got worse from there as the game went on..
>Cross server content
>Dungeon finder
>Portals in every major city to every major city
>Flying mounts

WoW turned modern "MMOs" into Facebook/MSN/Myspace.

Now every other AAA publisher saw what Blizzard did and wanted to make a quick buck as well. So for the next 10 years we got these HUGE budget WoW clones expecting to build up the same subscription numbers as Blizzard. Well it turns out that the target audience wasn't as big as these companies expected and almost every single one of these games crashed and burned.

Meanwhile anyone still playing MMOs before WoW are growing up. They don't have 8 hours a day to put into FFXI/EQ/DaoC/etc. They start playing WoW/WoW-clones as well. Younger people have no idea what MMOs were before WoW and play WoW-clones as their "first" MMOs.

We'll never get another true AAA MMO, but that's okay. There are some niche games coming from veteran developers who worked on the classics. Pantheon, Ashes of Creation, Camelot Unchained, etc. And bigger publishers are starting to get more experimental, but unfortunately still playing it too safe with how casual the games are. We should be happy with that. In the meanwhile, private servers like project99 are extremely populated and great fun.

It could be a while, but there'll be a return of true MMOs.

>>387930540
Good post, I agree completely.

>tfw forced to play on a maplestory private server because all mmos are shit

>>387899227
This.

There used to be a time where video game rumors were a legitimate adventure in themselves. You'd hear about all sorts of secret shit inside a game and nobody knew if it was true or not.

Nowadays, that shit gets debunked quickly.

>>387903330
Dungeon Finder was the literal death of WoW for me.

It used to be fun to travel and explore the world around me. Now, nobody wants to. They create a new character, level up to 15, then LFD until they hit max level.