>sonic has good level desi--

no one ever says that

>>387864860
> posts a part designed for easy time travel

It's intentional OP. Learn how to play.

>>387865065
>time travel
>sonic 2

Sonic's levels are completelu nonsensical. It's like Sega just placed a bunch of shit at random and then called it a day. It's like a 2D Bethesda game

Just jump? It's an amusing if ineffectual "trap" that at worst wastes your time, as is its purpose.

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>>387864860

>>387865240
But why? What's the point of a trap that can't kill you?

>>387865476
>implying traps aren't gay

>>387864860
No one's ever said that until recently.

>>387865240
I'd rather just die and start over than get bounced around

Hill Top Zone was never good

>>387865138
>he doesn't know

>>387864860
>falling for a retard trap is the game's fault
But Hilltop is a great example of using Sonic's physics and terrain to your advantage to gain high paths. It promotes mechanical mastery in ways most platformers can't afford.

>Implying anyone actually likes Hill Top Zone

>>387865574
sonic 2 was never good

>>387865712
I do. It's literally Emerald Hill Past, and I like Emerald Hill.

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What are some other games with shitty level designs?

Any backtracking simulator for example.

>>387864860
>not getting a good laugh out of watching Tails be a retard

Mystic Cave Zone is one of the worst levels in a video game

>>387865914
>wah I can't hold right to win
>that's the purpose of the trap
>oh my fucking god Sonic was never good and fuck you for supporting it
Like fucking clockwork.

What's with this whole thing of people being too stupid to play a Sonic game? They are among the simplest and easiest games in the world.

>>387865580
>Wont show anything valid.
Thanks, anon. Totally convinced me about everything.

>>387866012
people fell for the "lel just hold right" meme and get buttblasted when they run into a hazard while holding right

>>387866120
it's almost like the game is only fun when you're holding right but then it's too easy so they have to put random shit in the way to slow you down

>>387865914

Why does everyone get so flustered by Sonic 1? I wasn't even that good at Sonic when I was a kid and I managed to beat it with all 6 chaos emeralds several times. I don't get it.

>>387866169
Nah. Not anywhere near that. You're just garbage.

lewd

>>387865914
If you took the worst of the overwatch forum, gamefaqs, youtube comments and neogaf combined, you wouldn't have half the inane shit that comes out of Nintendo's Miiverse.

>>387866118
http://info.sonicretro.org/Game_Development:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_(16-bit)
This whole article shows scrapped concepts for Sonic 2. One of them was the time travel gimmick. Here's your proof, anon. Even though there actually are travel points so that might actually just be a trap after all.

>>387865476
Wastes the time for the timer.

I think it was put there for a small "well that's kind of funny" moment. If that didn't exist, you;d have to cheat to launch yourself between two springs like that.

>>387866169
Here's what you do anon, it's a special, secret tactic I worked out playing Sonic back in the day...are you ready? It's pretty hardcore, so only do this if you think you're ready for it.

OK, so when an obstacle comes up...jump over it!

>>387866201
>>387866475
mad furries

>>387866329
Thank you.

>>387866374
sonic 2 doesn't have a timer

>>387865476
It's to train the player for traps to come. It's to let you know that holding right won't work forever and if you aren't ready for what's coming you're going to get fucked.

>>387866329
Holy shit. >>387865065 here I was just shitposting but thank you.

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>>387866506
>too incompetent to play the legendarily easy Sonic games

>>387866548
At 10 min you get a time over.

Sonic has always appealed to autists because the only way to play the game at the speed at which its supposedly built around requires nothing but pure autistic memorization of the entire map.

>>387866618
stupid design doesn't mean hard design

>>387866329
>Kid Chameleon

I love that game. Never made it all the way through though.

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>>387866547
>>387866613
You're welcome lads.

>>387866651
Memorization won't mean shit if you can't also execute the level. The point is to get good, like any good video game.

>>387866706
If you want to complain about the way Sonic handles, or the way it takes control away from you, or the way it slows you down with lifts and grabbing swings and stuff, sure, go right ahead. Those are bad design choice. But having obstacles is not a stupid design. What do you want, literally just holding right for an entire level?

>>387866651
It must be horrible to have reflexes on the level of my bed ridden grandfather at such a young age.

>>387865740
Sonic was never good

>>387865476
What's the point of one that can? Dying is just a waste of your time. So is this, smaller scale.

>>387866837
>What do you want, literally just holding right for an entire level?
yes

"my favorite sonic level is marble zone" -no one

>>387865914
I fucking love the Miiverse.

>>387866926
>yes

Well, just so long as you admit that any challenge whatsoever is too much for you.

>>387866926
Marble Zone fucked up because that place is nothing BUT obstacles. There's a balance between "Hold right through all the shuttle loops" and "push the fucking block a hundred times".

>>387866926
If you just want to watch the game be played, why not just go to youtube? You don't even have to hold any buttons.

>>387867168
I want to play the game

I don't want to do janky shit platforming, if I wanted good platforming I'd play mario

>>387866176
It is not an achievement to beat a game multiple times after the first time because the game gets easier every time

>>387867216
No you don't, you want to watch a bunch of tilesets fly by you.

>>387867216
>I want to play the game
>I just want to hold right

Holding a single button is playing?

>>387866731
"git gud" is the one and only defense that /v/ uses for everything. It's getting pathetic at this point.

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>>387866176
>flustered

Anon, you're only supposed to use that word when talking about anime girls.

>387867216
>I prefer playing a game where the level is a fucking straight line and you can actually hold right to win
You are trying too hard to bait me, anon. Doesn't even deserve my (You).

>>387867298
OK. And this has what to do with Kid Chameleon?

>>387867241

The point was, there was never a time where I felt so frustrated that I just flat out gave up on a playthrough. Which does happen in some games, even on subsequent play throughs. I beat Ghosts and Goblins a long time ago, but fuck me if I'm going to go back and do it again. I could never do it again, way too difficult to repeat that sort of shit. Like climbing a really tall mountain.

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>>387866635
>sonic has a time over at 10 minutes
>timer counts up instead of down so you have no way of knowing
another example of sonic's amazing game design

>>387867987
Read the manual retard.

>>387868065
there's literally no reason to have it count up instead of count down

>>387868095
its like a racing game

>>387868095
It doesn't matter because if you read the manual, you find out.

>>387868198
what if the year is 2073 and all sonic 2 manuals have been destroyed in the great war

>>387868095
sure there is
one of the big aspects of Sonic stage design is doing stages quickly
the timer going up indicates your current time, like in a racing game

if each stage had a different time limit like in Mario, a countdown would be more useful
but it's always 10 minutes in Sonic, and it's explicitly stated in the manual

>>387868347
if you time over at any point in Sonic 2, you're probably doing something really wrong

>>387868347
http://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Sega_Genesis/manual/Formated/Sonic_The_Hedgehog_2_-_1992_-_Sega.pdf

>>387868347
The some poor asshole loses exactly one life in a two hour game finding out.

>>387867987

How the fuck do you take 10 minutes on a stage in Sonic?

>>387865519
Underrated.

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>>387867987
By that logic, you have no way of knowing which of the 4 buttons is the one that makes you jump.

>>387868571
Carnival Night Zone

>>387868628
How do you know touching the goomba in mario kills you if you don't have the manual? Seems like bad game design.

>>387868661

That's a gambling problem, though.

>>387868571
That circus stage in Sonic 3 is pure bullshit.

>>387868628
>>387868689
this is such a retarded false equivalence

>>387866263
>>387865914
Miiverse was kino. Is there a Switch version planned?

>funny little spring section that causes no harm
>GOD THIS GAME IS FUCKING TERRIBLE
Only on /v/

>>387868743
I'm sorry. I can't hear you. I'm too busy not beating Super Mario Bros because I lost the manual so I don't know what I'm supposed to do to get around that brown thing

>>387868689
The power up is shaped like a goomba too, so you could accidentally avoid them and cripple yourself, fuck Nintendo.

>>387868830
explain right now why the timer should count up instead of count down

what benefit does it offer to the game

>>387868571
I actually got a Time Over my first time playing Titanic Monarch Act 2. It still takes me upwards of 7 minutes even when I know what to do.

>>387868901
It lets you know how close you are to the 10 minute mark.

ALSO! The TIME text starts flashing when it reaches 9. The only other time the text flashes is when RINGS is at 0. What, you can't figure out that the flashing means bad?

>>387868901
Sonic is a game made to be easy to speedrun, the timer counting up gives you a more easily readible indication of exactly how fast you cleared the level without having to do any math.

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>>387869014
>It lets you know how close you are to the 10 minute mark.
so does counting down, and counting down easily communicates that you have a limited amount of time

>>387869032
This. Sonic was conceptualized from speedrunning, and this tells you your time. You don't get that kind of feedback when it's counting down.

>>387868835
I actually did that a couple of times as a kid.

>>387866329
I have seen Tails' full name thousands of time and it wasn't until this article that I got it because I always read it as Miles Tails Prower never putting the first and last name with each other. Damn I'm stupid.

>>387864860

Are you retarded OP? You can easily jump over that.

classic sonic games have so many fucking enemies that just spring out of the ground out of nowhere

>>387866329
Speaking of

What's the best way to play these cut levels?
Is there a good rom hack out there

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OH HEY IT'S THE FAN FAVORITE LEVEL DESIGN ELEMENT THAT WE NEEDED TO BRING BACK FOR THE SEQUEL

>>387868772
they shut down the miiverse

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>>387868571
Sandopolis Zone

I fucking love Sandopolis Zone.

>>387865712
Hill Top Zone is unironically the best level in Sonic 2, Oil Ocean being second.

>>387871161
>Hill Top Zone
>Best level
I think you made a mistake, you should have typed Aquatic Ruin Zone

>>387868571
>Goddamnit I'm probably one zone away from the end of the game and I'm still missing two emeralds where are the fucking big rings

>>387870271
Is there a worse level?

>shitty music that drives you crazy by the time your reach the 5 minute mark into the stage, bonus points if you pick up the shoes power up
>infamous barrel
>filled with loads of stuff but absolutely nothing notable about the layout or the stage theme
>no boss if you play as Knuckles
>the stage transition between this and Ice Cap could be changed with anything and no one would complain
>water combined with things that bounce you around

I think it represents everything wrong with 2D sonic, and some of the glaring flaws behind the Sonic 3 devs philosophy of how a Sonic game should be made.

>>387871420
>Is there a worse level?
Metropolis

>>387871475
Nah. Metropolis is hard but its justifiably near the end of the game, plus the music is fantastic

>>387871748
>justifiably
Bad design isn't justifiable.

>>387871901
Its not badly designed tho

>>387871981
>>387871748
fuck you, metropolis zone is THE worst fucking zone, three levels of complete fucking shit, i dont want even the slightest offchance of someone who actually matters in even an insignificant way to read your opinion and think its considered right. you are wrong, the only thing it had going for it was its art including music which was fantastic. people shit on marble zone but you wait even more in metropolis zone and unlike marble zone are homing projectiles to knock you off and around the wonky ass shit sandwich screw and bubble platforms kill yourself

>>387873101
Plus it was just boring to look at.

There are classic Sonic hating faggots here, about 55% in this very board which loves 2D Sonic.
What is wrong with you? Underageb& I suppose.

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>>387864860

at least use a good example of bad game design

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>>387868772

>>387874908
Only /v/, /mu/ and /tv/ say kino.

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>>387874373
honestly a cool alternative to this room would have been an upper exit. you can even fit a huge amount of content

>>387874961
You have to go back.

>>387873775
Plus the starfish while you're busy running in place on giant screws.

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>>387874961
pls go

>>387875280
Why are you stopping? If you run and don't stop you'll never get hit by those things. Don't ever jump until you're ready to get off, either.

>>387871381
Aquatic Ruin is a straight line anon

the only truly bad sonic level is wacky workbench act 1
fuck that shit

Labyrinth Zone has to become the worst sonic level holy shit. Why do more than half of sonic 1's stages consist of nothing but shit zones?

>>387875630
with sonic 1 they hadn't refined the level design to flow like sonic 2 does so you get nice levels like starlight and green hill and the others are really platforming heavy
I still love it but 1 and CD are an acquired taste desu

You can also use it to get going really fast back and forth and then jumping at the right time letting you start moving fast.

>>387875850
sonic 2 has really dogshit levels like mystic cave

>>387875850
Cd i can understand but you really need nostalgia goggles to enjoy anything from 1 beyond green hill zone.

>>387875993
Honestly I think Mystic Cave would've been a solid level if it didn't have those pitfalls. I don't have any real problem with that stage beyond those. Metropolis Zone is a fucking shitshow however.

>>387876046
Nope I love them all and labyrinth is my second favourite right behind green hill

>>387874373
Go ahead, I'm waiting

>>387865476
People who don't have autism enjoy them.

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>only briefly played some of each of the original 3 Sonic games, mostly playing S3&K
>really want to get Mania, but probably going to wait for a few years when it's 50% off

Thanks for reading my blog.

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>>387864860
>>387869056
>>387870271
too bad the Sonic Mania equivalent is a bit out of the way
unless there's another

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>>387876428
People who DON'T have autism enjoy Sonic games?

>>387873101
Its got good speed, good difficulty, good music and good aesthetics. The badnick placement can lead to some bullshit moments but thats my only gripe. They wont even hit you unless you're shit or playing for the first time. Way better than pushing a slow-moving block into the lava and waiting for it to carry you across.

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>>387876303

>false feedback with jumping
>previous barrels solved just by jumping
>correct/proper solution is a mechanic never used before and never used again

The barrel is a textbook example of bad game design

>>387876173
Okay now I know you're baiting at this point. If not, justify why.

>>387876727
the barrel itself literally tells you how to use it
up and down arrows are painted all over it!

>>387865914
This guy seems unfamiliar with anything that isn't spoonfeeding.

>>387875630
>playing sonic 1 for the millionth time
>get to labyrinth zone
>cant bother to slog through it

I havent finished the entire game since I was 9. Thank God for level select

>>387864860
it's called a trap, anon

you are supposed to avoid them

>>387865476
the point of sanic is to go fast

so a trap that stops forward momentum is very annoying, and you will remember it, and jump over it in future playthroughs

>>387865712
git gud

hill top zone is fucking amazing

>>387866613
This is why you go back

>>387866000
when did sanic haters become more retarded than sonic fans?

>>387866176
I never beat marble hill zone till I was like 10

shits too fucking hard

>>387877240
They're one and the same.

>>387866329
oh shit, that sounds amazing

sonic 2 is already the best game ever made, my mind coundnt handle an even more awesome version

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>>387866329
holy moly

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>>387866329
holy fuck, I knew sonic CD and sonic 2 were being designed at the same time, but....WHAT.

>>387876046
All the levels apart from Labyrinth and Marble Zone are really good, Marble isn't even bad just slow compared to the rest and Labyrinth has neat music like the rest of the game so I don't understand this "nostalgia goggles" argument.

>>387877682
>All the levels apart from Labyrinth and Marble Zone are really good
no

spring yard zone sucks. scrap brain zone sucks. stardust zone was ok

green hill is the only good zone in sonic one, thats why sega keeps referencing it

>>387875630
because sonic 1 is not a good game

there, I said it

>>387875993
thems fighting words, m8

>>387877762
>thats why sega keeps referencing it
It's like saying Mario 1-1 is the best stage and that's why they reference it so much.

Green Hill isn't even the best genesis sonic intro stage.

>>387878058
it's better than emerland hill zone and angel island

>>387866329
Imagine if they had worked with the director of Sonic CD, it would have been the best and most aesthetic sanic game ever.

>>387878283
>Emerald hill
yes
>Angel Island
debatable

>>387866731
Kid Chameleon is fucking hard and extremely long for the time.

>>387870262
Sonic 2 The Lost Worlds
It's shittily designed, but it managed to make mock-ups of every level scrapped for Sonic 2.
Almost every concept was either incredibly vague or done in a later game. Hell, if you wanna be technical, "Rock Zone" is actually in Sonic 2 as either Hilltop or Mystic Cave.

I imagine, by Mania 2, every cut Sonic 2 zone worth making will have been made by taxman. They already did Hidden Palace and Dust Hill, all they have left is....
Wood Zone I guess????

>>387878638
Wait I'm retarded, I know what cut level should be remade next
Taxman should make Genocide City Zone
though probably with a different name and just go for a level that looks like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3PjyWdakFQ

>>387878537
angel island sucks

>>387878638
I want the taxman to remake sonic 2 the way it was meant to be

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>Cyber City Zone, a one-act level that was meant to follow Metropolis Zone and was briefly called "Genocide City", but was changed once the Japanese staff fully realized what the word meant

This made me laugh a little for some reason, also, i didn't know there were still so many people who didn't know about how similar was Sonic 2 in concept to CD.

>>387878638
Is it worse than Sonic 2 Long Version?
Because I want to see their interpretations but playing the absolute assnightmare that was S2 Long left a very bad taste in my mouth for this kind of thing.

>>387878928
no it doesn't

>>387878887
genocide city. about killing all the jews

>>387879116
yes it does. it's slow, and multitiered, and there is no way to speed run it

>>387878887
>Genocide City Zone is a scrapped level from Sonic the Hedgehog 2. It was meant to be a single level which used the map that ultimately became Metropolis Zone Act 3. Concept art of it has been released revealing that the level's name was originally Cyber City.

>According to Sonic 2 level designer Tom Payne, the name "Genocide City" being chosen was due to the development team's "not quite complete grasp of the English language." During an interview with Payne, he went on to say that the team "may have been looking for a name that sounded dangerous," which resulted in the name "Genocide City" appearing in one of the Sonic 2 betas. It is now believed that Cyber City was the name conceptualized later on in order to remedy the zone's former name.

http://info.sonicretro.org/Genocide_City_Zone

>>387878979
....Would that actually be any better?
I mean really even in the most optimistic light with what we know
>we get a desert level that looks only slightly better than pic-related
>we get a mountain level..... wait didn't we already have that?
>we get a snow level that we know would reuse graphics from the desert level
>we get a forest level, which honestly in complete condition could look pretty alright
>we get hidden palace zone, which the taxman remake already has
>Metropolis Act 3 has a different tileset and music, maybe
>>387879101
I don't know about S2LV, but this is six zones (+credits zone) and it's asshole romhacker level design in its most definitive form
The first enemy in the game is a shell-cracker, there's your first clue
So only play it if uh...
...
...
...
I guess Cyber City had the neat idea of putting sky chase enemies into normal levels

>>387876727
Doesn't help that if you're playing Sonic+Tails, which is the default setting, Tails will make understanding what is influencing the barrel's movements even harder.

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>>387879434
this is like the third time tonight I forgot an image
>>387879303
I know the actual story behind genocide city, I just like the idea of a moonlit urban level in a classic sonic game

>>387866731
There's a teleporter on one of the early levels to take you to the last boss. Without it I can't usually get a few levels past where the giant lion things with orb shooting staves are.

>>387879645
>There's a teleporter on one of the early levels to take you to the last boss.

I know. But that's not getting all the way through it.

>>387879527
I love how the mock-up makes no sense once you analyze it.

>>387869082
Counting down doesn't leverage itself towards time attack, which the game focuses on, you fucking moron.

>>387878638
G E N O C I D E
C I T Y
Z O N E

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Not related to the thread but:

>Not wanting to leave the American side of STI in the dust, Sega gave them a separate Sonic the Hedgehog-related project to work on that would fill in a gap in scheduling between Sonic 2 and Sonic 3, Sonic the Hedgehog Spinball.

Holy shit this makes you appreciate more the talent of jap devs of the time.

>>387879797
Sure it is, it's an in game shortcut.

how much money did you think it took to make the game?

>>387880509
About tree-fiddy.

>>387867987
timer starts flashing red at the 9th minute, it makes more sense to know how much it took you to finish the act rather than how much time you had left, silly shitposterkun

>>387876614
They do, they just don't want to fuck him or make a hedgehog avatar of themselves.