Elder Scrolls lore thread

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I'll start with a question that has bothered me for a while:

How the fuck did Talos/Tiber Septim/Hjalti/Ysmir achieve godhood? I presume he achieved CHIM when he controlled Numidium and with some help from Vivec, but what exactly triggered his apotheosis to become a divine? No in-game book gives a clear answer to this as far as I know

>>387849491
>How the fuck did Talos/Tiber Septim/Hjalti/Ysmir achieve godhood?
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shezarrine

When asked about Lorkhan and his avatars, developer Michael Kirkbride presented the following list. All items of the list are names, surnames, pseudonyms, or titles of people (notably Tiber Septim) suspected to be a part of the enantiomorphic "Oversoul" that is believed by some to constitute the deity known as Talos.[10][OOG 2]

1. Wulfharth L
2. Hjalti O
3. Ysmir R
4. Talos K
5. Arctus H
6. Septim A
N

That is to say, no one really knows for certain, and TES is now well beyond of ever being capable of giving a satisfying answer.

>>387850064
So Talos is basically a "reborn" Lorkhan in the simplest of terms?

Does CHIM grant you actual godlike power or just some degree of omniscience? Do people who achieve it just have really powerful abilities to begin with, which heighten when they achieve unlimited knowledge about the universe and shit?

>>387851293
I see it as embodying, and therefore mantling, Change and Stasis both (and their conflict), seeing reality without losing your identity since you see yourself in it as much as you see it in yourself. While the opposite, Zero-Summing, is to see it, and seeing it in yourself, but not yourself in it, turning you back into it, erasing you.

>>387850517
In effect; however note that the entity itself that was Lorkhan IS dead, but parts of him continue on. The Heart of Lorkhan is an obvious one, but arguably Nirn itself has been basically imbued with his essence.

The result, as I understand it, is that the races which embrace Nirn and its creation (Men and the descendants of the Wandering Ehlnofey) share a deep connection to him, thus can mantle him, while those who resent it (Mer and offspring of the Old Ehlnofey) cannot.
This might well play into/partially explain what could have gone wrong with the Dwemer in the first place: it is unknown if they originate from the Old Ehlnofey like all the other mer. If they do, then they tried to connect their entire race into something they are antithetical to on an ancestral level. Alternatively, if they are a separate stock or came from the Wandering Ehlnofey, we get back to the standard Zero-Sum or ascendancy explanations.

Talos gets complicated because he's not a single person, but two, there, possibly more individuals together who all mantled the greater idea/divine being/impersonated one another for convenience and THEN as a collective ascended into what is both a singular being that's more or less Lorkhan 2.0 .

>>387851293

>Omnisomething
>Having degrees

What?

>>387851765
Alright, NEAR omniscience may be a better description of what I meant

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>>387849080
where did it all go so wrong?

>>387851293
The only real limitation of CHIM is that you are walking a fine line between truly embracing the idea of everything, including yourself, is a dream thus zero-summing, and believing in the validity of the world around you, thus losing CHIM and once again becoming a mere part of the Dream.

You know the line from Star Trek, about Picard being bald and that surely in the future you have the tech to fix that, with the reply that yes they do, but it no longer matters because we've stepped past petty shit like that?
Basically the same principle applies here. You have omnipotency but no longer perceive the world in a way from which you can make truly meaningful alterations, because the moment YOU believe those alterations to be substantial, you lose the ability to make them.

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>>387852385
Here.

>>387852385
>not preferring the overall art style of Skyrim
>not wanting Romans-in-the-jungle in DA NORF

>>387850064
Ysmir and Wulfharth are literally the same thing, Kirkbride is a hack.

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>>387852642
How would a jungle Cyrodiil work exactly? Would the Gold Coast be a wet-dry land the lower Niben be a Jungle? What would the border with Skyrim look like?

>>387852486
Is there even any substantial evidence of the godhead and "the dream" even existing only going by in-game sources?

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>>387852962
DUDE JUST REPLACE YOUR BRAIN WITH LSD LMAO
>>387853265
No, of course not.

>>387849080
What is "chim" exactly?

>>387853114
The geography of Tamriel makes no sense at all and never has. They could have put any kind of combination of climates/biomes in Oblivion and not bothered to explain it.

Tbh while I understand that people were disappointed Bethesda went for a generic LOTR fantasyland instead of some kind of jungle, I seriously doubt they could have done a convincing jungle. They couldn't even really do sparsely vegetated rolling hills very well.

>>387854197
if you smoke weed you will get it c:

Somebody explain to me how 'time' works in 'space'.

>>387853114
Climate in TES is fucked however you look at it, as Vvardenfell's Grazelands are on the same fucking latitude as Windhelm. It's supposedly explained by southern winds over the region, but it is very shaky at best.

The whole of Cyrodiil is meant to be dominated far more by river connections and trade than regular roads, so much of the heartland should be dense jungle and tamed rice fields.
The best spots for regular, temperate climates should be the Anvil and the Colovian Estates, which is meant to be quite substantially different from the Niben Bay.

>>387853265
The Progress of Truth and the Darkest Darkness refer to it, however they seem to connect it to the Tribunal/CHIM more than the greater concept. The Mythic Dawn Commentaries mention it too, but again, not in the exact sense from the explanations.

Much of the larger mythology of the series is inferred from ingame sources, interviews and whatnot, reliant on others' interpretations and Vivec being a self-aggrandising lying cunt.
Some might think this neat, others not so much.

>>387854197
See >>387853326
>>387854232
That's not what he has in the drug coffin.

>>387849080
>it's been a while since we had a good lore thread
Because CHIMfags ruined lore threads

https://youtu.be/Sg8ScOdH3bY
anyone remember that elder scrolls game that was on a spaceship dungeon thing

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>caring about your shitty fake dream world

>>387854628
Thank you for illustrating my point that CHIMfags ruin everything

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>>387854207
>>387854296
I think you could get away with it you kept then lower Niben jungle but then there's Anequina which is a desert

>>387854628
>you will never scream refutations
Why even live?

>>387849080
I played this game for the first time recently
Why is this guy such an asshole?

Do you think they'll dumb down the next game more then skyrim?

>>387852642
The art style of Skyrim is bad and you should feel bad.

>>387855110
After seeing the atrocity that was Fallout 4, of course.

>>387855110
I don't think that's possible unless Bethesda decides to make it a full-blown action game with no RPG-elements which sounds more likely the more I think about it

>>387855227
>I don't think that's possible
You're wrong. They can shove Fallout 4's dialog wheel into it.

>>387855013
the fuck is this map projection

why is yokuda above water

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So Vivec stops a meteor from impacting Vvardenfell, and instead of putting it away, he just suspends it over the city to remind the citizens that if their love of Vivec ever waned, he would release the meteor.
My question... why the fuck? Later on he gives you Wraithguard and tells you to destroy the Heart of Lorkhan, something he knew would strip him of his godlike powers.
So why didn't he put Baar Dau (the name of the asteroid) somewhere way the fuck away?
Just as everyone suspected, it eventually gets released from Vivec's (now gone) power, and resumes its path toward Vvardenfell with all of the momentum it had when Vivec stopped it in the first place.
Shit destroys Vivec City and makes Red Mountain erupt, the Dunmer are absolutely fucking wrecked, and the Argonians come and chase them off into Skyrim.
Why, Vivec? Why was this guy given Sainthood after his powers were stripped? Dude is the single most destructive entity in Morrowind history, more than Dagoth Ur.

>>387855160
shit opinion

>>387855013
The best resolution to that would be a change to Anequina itself gradually shifting from the last dregs of jungle to savannah to desert, which honestly would be an improvement to that region, a chance to any future games set there to elaborate, rather than having the whole region as a sand pit that shouldn't really exist, given its neighbours.

>>387855227
>>387855308
>voiced protagonist with four choice dialogue wheel
>the choices are secretly all Yes, even the no is actually a yes
>all skill trees are condensed into just three trees, warrior, mage, and rogue
>all quests but the main quest are just radiant quests
>cities will be as large as five buildings maximum
Just a few things I can see them doing.

>>387855160
It's better than Oblivion, which was explicitly and unambiguously the point of my post.
This is, of course, the part where you reiterate that Skyrim is still trash, to which I respond that your heterosexuality is a falsehood, you say something unsavory about my mother, and then the whole thread is ruined.

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When will Akavir ever stop being le mysterious eastern land and actually be worth a shit in the lore or the games? The proposed races sound pretty cool.

Who came up with the idea that vampires cry semen tears? Was it Kirkbride?

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Explain this man to me and what does this mean in the coming years?

>>387855469
No... I'd rather just drop it. I'm not that kind of anon, anon. I love you.

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>>387855343
Do not panic, it's canon.

>>387855419
He's a dick basically

>>387855419
The serious answer is probably "they were just mortals, they couldn't comprehend the full potential of their powers" to literally everything stupid the Tribunal did.
Really, though, it's because Bethesda wanted to fuck up a bunch of shit.

>>387855526
>that fucking perpetually dirty Skyrim skin and stupid as fuck hairstyle that is seen on like 50% of Nords in the game
Fuuuck this game looks like SHIT!

>>387855419

Would he re-accelerate it to meteor speeds or just let it drop? Because a large, hollowed out rock might cause a few things to fall off the walls, but otherwise anything not directly below it would be fine.

>>387855419
He is a hermaphrodite, and a truly and genuinely fucked up one at that.

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Tell me about KINMUNE and it's role in the history. I haven't played TESO.

>>387855661
When his power over the meteor faded, it resumed the velocity it had.

>>387855746

Didn't think he had that much power, since you can kill him in game without any trouble. I always figured all the lore about him was exaggerated, like ninja walking on water (hidden poles) or Jesus feeding a bunch of people (was spawning season, so any half-wit with a net could catch hundreds of fish).

>>387855110
Did you not play fallout 4?

>>387855419
>My question... why the fuck?
He's retarded.

Vivec is one of the most over-discussed characters ever created. Evidence that his initial material was well-written, perhaps, but I would've preferred Oblivion or Skyrim to have had a character that was anywhere near as interesting to lorefags as Vivec. Everyone's been discussing the same bullshit for over a decade, with only tiny factoids from two new games peppered onto the now rotting carcass of Morrowind.

>>387855443
So it's be,
>Nibenay - Jungle
>Anequina - Savannah - Desert -Savannah
>Pelletine - Jungle?

>>387855419
Remember that the meteor itself is magical, as it came directly from Sheogorath's realm. It's possible Vivec wanted to remove it for some time but couldn't because of his waning power, and it simply remained there until it was too late for him to stop it with the heart destroyed

>>387855893
>I always figured all the lore about him was exaggerated
That's what I figure his sermons are. Basically just him fellating himself with self-insert fanfiction.

>>387855894
I did, it took a lot of bad things from skyrim like miscellaneous quests and radiant quests.

If the Dragonborn was an Altmer, wouldn't the implication of an Altmer being blessed/an aspect of Akatosh really fuck over the Thalmor?

>>387855503
I have literally never heard this before.
But yeah, it sounds like something Kirkbride would do.

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>>387855976
Fine. Let's talk about Lucien Lachance. When he said he does not spread rumors, but creates them, what did he mean by that?

Mandatory viewing is required.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxmbfvycbv0

>>387855452
>>cities will be as large as five buildings maximum
Wrong, there are no cities, only pre-determined plots of land for you to build towns on.

>>387856125
not really
they're super elitists to the point where they consider outland altmer lesser or impure

their supremacy is absolute

>>387855976
Well, when they make a new character worth discussing for ten years, we'll do it. In the meantime, you're stuck with Vivec and his pals.

>>387856384
You joke, but that could be the start of a really fun open-world-adventure-survival-craftathon set in Argonia.

>>387856582
People like you are why Todd lies.

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>>387856053
I imagine it as a more enclosed desert like the Kalahari, rather than the Sahara. It's a smaller, compact region that's strikingly different from its surroundings, much like how Vvardenfell was different. But because TES is TES, rather than the desert being surrounded by also shitty terrain, here it has jungle/forested areas to the East, and the West as well, and to the North it gradually turns back to savannah then temperate/jungle as it gets nearer to Cyrodiil.

>>387856492
Ulfric Shitcuck

What race canonically make the best stealth archers?

>>387855482
>Elder Scrolls VI is Akavir
>time to cater to weebs
>fuck all the preestablished lore

>>387856732
Obviously Bethesda wouldn't do it justice, but the IDEA ITSELF is sound.

>>387856881
Bosmer.
Which is funny because in terms of game mechanics, they're one of the worst possible races to roll.

>>387854628
>>387855036
>a giant robot powered by the collective REEE's of a dead race

>>387856881
Orcs. They have shit starting stats for Archery but it doesn't prevent them from reaching 100, and Skyrim has no attributes, so all that really matters is the racial power and Berserk is OP as fuck in Skyrim.

>>387855639
200 years of progress has only led to no technological advances and decreased hygiene.

>>387857393
CANON

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>>387856813
So this enclosed desert would be somewhere in between Orcrest and Corest? I'd picture it being a bit wide in a sort of oval shape from the west and east.

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>>387855976
>Vivec is one of the most over-discussed characters ever created
>implying

Like you said, it's generally a sign that the original material is good. But it's also a challenge for the industry of today to overcome, and whenever they come halfway close to trying, inevitably it will be compared to the old stuff, which leads to the old stuff being discussed again anyway.

Funnily enough older, and pretty interesting/elaboration-ready characters like Jagar Tharn are ignored when they should not have been, and the new cast in both Oblivion and Skyrim are as bland as humanly possible. You could have done some interesting stuff with Martin Septim and the internal politics of the Empire and more of an insight into Chancellor Ocato, for instance, but that would have needed some real effort being put into new lore being written and giving the world a depth Oblivion straight up refuses to even consider.

>>387857589
Oh...

m-m-muh draw strength...

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>>387857670
The Elder Scrolls died with the Septims.

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>>387857642
I meant to write Corinth...

>>387857642
It would certainly make sense around there, with much of the non-desert regions having a neat and gradual thinning out of life.

Hell, in an actual good game set in the region the crossing of that desert could be a genuinely dangerous and taxing event.

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>>387857868
It would be the geographical and political line between north and south. Anequina and Pelletine. A no mer's land if you will and looks like someone's already thought of that. Pic related is just what we were talking about.

>>387858361
Noice.Throw in some resources at the borders with the stronger provinces, flesh out the shit history the region had, and honestly it would be neat to play a game set there.

Well, if the game was done with actual standards and the like, which it would not, given current Bethesda.