Why doesn't Sonic work in 3D?

>>387845849
He could, there just needs to be more open level design.

He DOES, SEGA just has to find the perfect formula for im'

You cant have fast moving environments without them being automated or having it becoming heavy trial and error.

I think SA2 had it going in the right direction.

>>387845849
Because they got too used to working with him in a 2D space and didn't know how to adapt him to future gens properly.

People think he can't work in 3D based on the efforts of an incompetent studio who can't even do 2D gameplay correctly at this point.

>>387845938
utopia

Express Sonic's speed by having the rest of the world move slow instead of Sonic moving fast, and then just make it like a normal 3D platformer.

>>387845849
Drifting was the best part of Sonic Generations so I guess just make it a racing game with a jump button.

>>387845849
Because there have been so many versions of Sonic in 3D that everyone has a different idea of how he should work
Every 3D has the same type of responses but from different people
>He felt better in x
>Why am I not going fast all the time?
>Jumping feels bad
There is no consistency to how Sonic plays in 3D so there is no basis for how he SHOULD be according to the claims of varies groups that all have their own personal favorite 3D Sonic game which plays nothing like the others

>>387845849
I think Sonic should have more of an overhead view like 3D Blast, with controls similar to Sonic Adventure but with more grip, should ditch lives and instead just decrease end level bonuses and currency, focus on a different variety of level themes every so often but also make a central world to come back to every so often that isn't Green Hill Zone (like a city area or treehouse area run by Freedom Fighters of some sort), etc.

>>387847219
honestly i wouldn't mind that, racing mechanics + pseudo-platforming + some creative mechanics could make a pretty good 3D sonic game

Because Sega keeps fucking it up

>>387847405
>Freedom Fighters

no

File: 1502959629004.jpg (13KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 480x360px

The Adventure games weren't successful for no reason, say whatever you want about any of the other characters but Sonic and Shadow were fun to play and are the reason those games are still remembered. That style of gameplay only got axed because of several rushed titles with bad execution, not because the core gameplay was flawed. Everyone's main gripe with 3d Sonic is always how bad the camera is. Sonic games that control well still have camera issues. If Sega had the brains to dive into Adventure 1 and 2's code and rip out the controls and use them for a new game, except this time focus on fixing the camera, they'd be rich.

>>387845849
sonic team are hacks
>>387846910
Yes

>>387848048
I think I agree with you the most, take the core Adventure gameplay mechanics, improve them as much as you can, fix the camera, make Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, and Shadow the only playable characters, use the classic sonic game design methods of the characters not being completely different from sonic at their core but with enough different unique traits to make them worthy enough to be in the game, take notes from classic sonic game design with branching paths, some that only certain characters can get too, less boost pads and more momentum based mechanics (at least for sonic and shadow I mean), and no separate campaigns for each character.

>>387847041
This is the worst shit ever

>>387847041
what about enemies?

>>387845849
It could but Sonic Team are incompetent developers.

File: Slow1.png (68KB, 718x246px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 718x246px

Adventure almost did. I remember on launch day my bud and I played the game, friend was a sega kid so he got a go first, he was playing the game like S3&K. When we loaded up Emerald Coast, There were all kinds of nooks and cranny that the game already had that would have been perfect for secrets, but they were just empty spots.

Adventure was a very unfinished game. It needs a rerelease with properly fleshed out secrets.

File: Slow2.png (132KB, 718x200px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 718x200px

Also, I'd like to add that Heroes and Lost World are not nearly as bad as a lot of people claim it to be, again, just unfinished.

File: Sonic Utopia Movement.webm (3MB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 640x360px

>>387845849
But he does

>>387850816
that kinda got my dick hard

File: Nice.jpg (713KB, 1347x1424px) Image search: [Google]

713KB, 1347x1424px

>>387849596
>>387849726
>>387849804

File: Sonic Utopia Crab Bounce.webm (3MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1280x720px

>>387851134

>>387850816
Needs to be less wide and more vertical so it can incorporate the Classic games' philosophy of skill-based upper middle lower paths.

As it is now, it's not much different from Lost World's tubes where you just choose your path instead of it being based on your prowess at utilizing Sonic's momentum.

File: start.webm (3MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1280x720px

>>387850816
>mfw we might get a new proper level at this SAGE
green hill test is already too much fun, even getting a single zone would be a dream
>>387851256
don't steal my webm nigga

>>387851213
thanks. sagepost helps

File: sonic christmas.jpg (128KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 1024x768px

>>387845849
I thought the Adventure worked pretty well. Just take that and give the polish of the boost games and it would work well.
>Sonic has weight and momentum
>When he rolls down a slope he gains speed, when he goes up a slope, he loses speed
>He can spindash up a slope and jump off it to gain massive height, just like in the classic games
>The spindash can be used creatively to cross distances
>Level design didn't just focus on speed, but exploration as well.
I also miss the promotional art from that era.

File: Sonic Utopia Jungle Run.webm (3MB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 640x360px

>>387851336
agreed, the devs said they're working on a original level that's more focused

File: Sonic Utopia Crabmeat.gif (2MB, 450x412px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 450x412px

>>387851386
>don't steal my webm nigga
make me

>>387851475
>camera movement on the last swoopy thing
eek, that looked rough.

>>387846910
I think the shit Utopia gets is bloated. Namely people just acting offended that a tech demo had the impact it did. Utopia felt great to play and I'd kill to play a legit game built like it.

File: sonic_Utopia_fast.webm (3MB, 853x480px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 853x480px

>>387851649
I know, it looks better at 144meme/s, but it was a hard save to pull off
>>387851594
have one that I have stolen from someone else

File: Sonic_SegaAllStarsRacingTransformed_7.png (1MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1280x720px

>>387845849
>Why doesn't Sonic work in 3D?
What did he mean by this?

>>387851728
Its level design looks far too scaled up.

>>387845849
It does though. SA2's SONIC stages were fucking brilliant. The issue is that SEGA tries to stuff a bunch of filler to pad for time instead of just trying to get the other characters to add their own little nuances to the gameplay style that works.

I can guarantee if you had a sonic game that was split between Boost style and Sonic Adventure Sonic style gameplay, it would be the best way forward for 3D Sonic just based on how good both of those were compared to everything else tried during their absolute best stages.

The "Sonic in 3D was never good" thing is just a meme by clickbaiting youtube faggots that becomes increasingly more obvious the more you familiarize yourself with the games and what actually works within each game and why.

>>387845849
Sonic works in 3D.
Just Boost and Adventure play nothing like Sonic.

File: (New World Record) SpeedRun Sonic Utopia Demo Gree Hill Zone [1-10-13].webm (3MB, 480x270px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 480x270px

>>387851875
have this in return

File: Sonic.png (105KB, 256x381px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 256x381px

>>387845849
To make something really work well in 3D, you need to ADD layers of complexity, not remove them. Or at least have it about AS complex.

>>387852858
Sonic Team genuinely tried for the first three games though. Adventure 1 and 2 still tried as much as they could to retain the momentum based physics, it was just the level design that was the problem. And Heroes is super complex, there's so much stuff you can do, but I guess it's complex in the wrong way. I still appreciate their effort though.

It was from Shadow onwards that they just gave up and started simplifying everything.

>>387845849
Sonic Heroes was awesome wtf you talking about.

>>387848048
I agree with some of the stuff you're saying, but here's a few more problems with it of mine.

3D Sonic seems to automated with too many squences that rob the player of control. If you're going to put a bunch of boost-pads in front of a loop so every player can go through it, why even have the loop? There are too many "cinematic" moments that do nothing but show how fast Sonic can be instead of having the player use their speed to do the same. Big loops with boost pads or a series of bounce pads are just filler that rob the player of their momentum. Sonic should always be in the player's control the entire level. If you have to rob players of control over Sonic, only have it last for a second or two at most, have there be away around it and make it so you maintain your previous speed after it.

File: 1498190515078.jpg (45KB, 1080x1062px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 1080x1062px

>>387852543
Now that's a fast hogeboi.

File: 1501521245052.png (452KB, 710x828px) Image search: [Google]

452KB, 710x828px

>>387845849
If we're talking about Modern Sonic and not spinoffs, he works just fine, technically speaking.

The question should be, "Why doesn't 3D Sonic do better than boost2win and Hallway Zones?"

>>387851728
It's basically Modernfags getting threatened at the idea of yet another Classic style game upstaging their precious boost games. There's plenty of people, even non-Sonicfags, that liked what they saw for the most part. I can't wait for Lange to release the next demo so the people parroting the same old tired complaints can get btfo already.

>>387845849
bad developers

>>387852543
If this was you, that was Impressive. I hope Utopia doesn't have those shitty ass time spending time bonus at the end of a stage. I want RTA time all the time.

It definitely has the potential, but Sonic Team are incompetent hacks, so every 3D Sonic game is a narrow, mostly straight corridor where you just hold forward and occasionally jump as the game more or less plays itself. Sonic's "thing" is speed, but the real key to a solid Sonic game is a focus on using momentum to navigate vertically.

>>387853630
>The question should be, "Why doesn't 3D Sonic do better than boost2win and Hallway Zones?"

I assume due to his speed, designing a sonic level takes a lot of work compared to something like a level from say Super Mario 3D World.
Because of how Sonic is so fast, you have to make longer levels so they don't last a minute to beat and that means less alternate paths as those take a lot of time and money. The reason I suspect that the Adventure games had all those different types of gameplay is that making a slow moving shooter level for Tails or a treasure hunting level for Knuckles probably took less time than a longer Sonic/Shadow level even though when playing they'd take a similar amount of time to complete.

The other problem is that since Sonic is all about speed and precise moves, you can't really reuse [parts of] a level for a different purpose like in most 3D Marios. Sonic 06 tried this but it didn't work out.

>>387854227
Pretty sure the Adventure games did that so they could reuse stage assets as much as possible. Specially SA1 with its fuckhuge Sonic levels.

File: tumblr_ofrwkhFO9S1qegdapo1_540.gif (2MB, 540x540px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 540x540px

>>387853895
>If this was you, that was impressive.
Naw it's not my run, and what if they just let you skip score bonus if they include it

>>387845849
Because Sonic Team are a bunch of retarded chimps who couldn't make a good game to save their lives.

File: speedhighway'.webm (3MB, 720x576px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 720x576px

>>387853960
>every 3D Sonic game is a narrow, mostly straight corridor where you just hold forward and occasionally jump

Sonic should be more like Super Monkey Ball.

>>387854570
that's pretty sick, do you have more

>>387853630
It isn't really classic Sonic as much as it is Adventure Sonic.

>>387854801
That's all I have. Saw it posted in a thread the other day.

>>387847352
This. Nobody can decide what kind of game they want, so Sega is never sure what they can successfully do.

>>387845849
momentum based>adventure>>adventure 2>>others>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>boostshit

To this day Sonic Heroes is still the only good Sonic game.

>>387856425
No

>>387854570
>How to play Sonic Adventure like a god

>>387856425
why did you have to bring your furfaggotry in this perfectly good Sonic thread

He doe,s in fact, he works better in 3d when 2d since you can see ahead of him

It's just that Sega gives up befoe sticking to one style of gameplay to actually improve and polish over time.

>>387845938
This would only make it worse.

The closest sonic has had to a perfect 3d adaption was Sa2, which worked because the levels were linear enough to allow them to guyide the player into being able to go fasteven at a newcomer level of skill, and just reward mastery with even faster speeds.

Exploration and open ended design is at odds with the core of what makes sonic fun: Mastery of particular stages and speed.

>>387848048
exactly, except the other gameplay styles were fun too

>>387848812
>take notes from classic sonic game design with branching paths

This would only hurt it. Adventure 2 is ostenbly more linear the, say, the boost games, in that there are less meaningfully alternate pathways, but the actual amount of control the player has over sonic and how responsive he is makes them less rail roading in practice. Plus, Sa2 does have alternate pathways and rewards mastery, it's just kept closer to the same main track

The more time spend making alternate paths and branching level design the less itt'll going to be able to focus on having a good quaoity expierence overall

>>387851256
Those controls make it seem really difficult to make a tight turn when going fast, which appears to be tricky to maintain. Which means if you want to let the player run with minimal interruption, you need a LOT of space to make a full quarter turn. And you can see how it kind of forces the levels to be so huge to accommodate that mechanic (You can see all the really long stretches of land that kind of zone out the level boundaries).
So now you have this dynamic, where you switch from going at full speed barreling through a long, simple stretch to gingerly maneuvering through obstacles. Sound familiar? It's fundamentally the same thing as modern 3D Sonic (i.e. Generations), but the level in this demo just puts these segments in an open world instead of a linear map.

If there's one thing 3D Sonic games need to figure out in order to "work", it's that 2D Sonic would use the ENVIRONMENT to achieve top speeds, not some boost button, or a slow acceleration while running. I honestly have no idea how you would make that work in a 3D game. Despite their glaring flaws, SA1 and 2 did manage to do this to some extent. I think Sonic Team should really pay attention to that if they do end up working on a SA3, or whatever Sega inevitably tries to re-launch Sonic as a brand. Again.

Is anyone posting bat tiddies yet

>>387845849
SA1&2 did, I think Sonic Team thought they needed to keep changing the game and fucked up.

>>387859706
It's not very hard to turn you should try the game, and the devs are planning to put in a drift move to turn with minimal speed lost.

>Is anyone posting bat tiddies yet
there a better board if you want that >>>/trash/11153002

>>387845849
It's not like he works in 2d either. It was a shit series since the very beginning.

>>387859751
It feels like just two badly received games in a style and they jump ship.
Shadow and '06
The storybook games
Sonic 4

>>387859046
>It's just that Sega gives up befoe sticking to one style of gameplay to actually improve and polish over time.
The only time this has happened is with Lost World. Both the Adventure and Boost styles of gameplay have been featured in multiple games, it's just that Sonic Team doesn't focus on refining the gameplay itself, but would rather come up with new, unnecessary gimmicks instead so that each new game isn't seen as a glorified level expansion pack.

A good example is Forces. They brought back the boost gameplay after Lost World, but haven't made any noticeable improvements to the gameplay itself or the level design. They've likely spent more time trying to implement the playable OC, which is just another unnecessary gimmick to add to the pile.

>>387859046
>sa2
>2/3 of the game meant to pad it out
>1/3 of shit players actually enjoyed
>levels are more narrow and added problems that plagued all games that followed
At least adventure was 5/6 fun

>Exploration and open ended design is at odds with the core of what makes sonic fun: Mastery of particular stages and speed.
>utopia

>>387845849
It's impossible to have a game centered around high speed gameplay that isn't a racing game.
Ever notice how few Flash games there are? That's why.

>>387861842
>It's impossible to have a game centered around high speed gameplay
What exactly is wrong with the Utopia examples posted in this very thread? Yeah, the level design needs some refining, but the gameplay itself is solid.

>>387856425
can you post an imgur link or something please? always need more amy ass for my folder

>>387853317
That's a problem with level design. Sonic himself controls perfectly fine without automated paths, compared to the boost games which fall apart when it isn't being automated.

It's not that Sonic doesn't work in 3D

it's that Sonic Team doesn't work

Originally it was a game based around speed based momentum. That kind of gameplay was really hard to implement into a 3D space without it feeling off so they decided to make a facsimile of it instead in SA1. Longer they went on, the more 3D Sonic became it's own thing.

>>387846026
This, perfect mix of control over your character + speed, there's room for making the game more open and improving controls but the core gameplay was there.

Too bad Heroes happened.

>>387850816

It would be nice if Sega plagiarized this or teamed up with its creator. Even if it was for a cheap app game. It could be the new Mania.

>>387845849
The only reason why people think Sonic "doesn't work" in 3D is because they assume he must be super-duper lightning fast all the time, which is retarded. The original games emphasized fluid movement, not holding a button and being given lightning speed with little input needed. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of games that have done fluid 3D platforming and Sonic can be one of them if the devs bothered focusing on that instead of "HURR GOTTA GO FAST XDDD"

Because sonic was always gay to begin with thats why its on nintendo consoles but then they put it on xbox because nintendo is fucking shit and now no one is buying it because no one fucking cares about sonic the gay hedgehog

>>387864993
It doesn't have one creator, multiple people are working on it. Maybe if it turns out to be good, Christian Whitehead will hire them. Like how he hired the Sonic 2 HD guys for Mania.

>>387851256
>constantly having to correct your steering
>having to steer in a sonic game
No

>>387864819
Heroes would have controlled like Adventure 2 had they not been forced to switch engines thanks to having to put the game on all platforms, specifically the PS2 which the team had no experience developing for. Had they been allowed to remain on the Gamecube, it probably would have used the same enhanced SA2Battle engine that Billy Hatcher used.

>>387865498
source needed lol

They need to strip away everything and focus on making him feel good to control in a 3D environment.

No homing attack, no spindash, no boost, no drifting. Just good old running, jumping and rolling. Once they get that down then you can enhance his moveset.

>>387845849
Too time consuming for developers to make detailed aesthetically pleasing and expansive non linear levels from the 2d games but in 3d. The best they've managed is racing game style levels that play like an Fzero platformer but even then they have to pad the game out to make up for how few levels there are.

>>387854570

Oh my God

>>387866165
This is what I have though of for a few years now, I mean, Mario proved you could do a tight fast paced 3D platforming game with only jumping and running, Sonic should try to do the same focusing more on the physics and visual cues to help the player in the air, even if it turns out kind of slow compared to boost it wouldn't matter, Sonic 1 wasn't even fast apart from certain areas in the levels.

File: IMG_7064.jpg (37KB, 597x407px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 597x407px

>>387845849
>Listening to the fire OST
>remember how The true Ginal boss had a really sick tune to it
>play it
>loving it all over again
>check comments
>a lot of refeecnes to something called fist bump
>"what's that?"
>look it up
>mfw
>it's from Sonic forces
>what?
>decide to give it a try, modern sonic has its hits and misses. Give it a chance
>gave it a chance
>it's so bad
>how. Did Mania somehow do something to make it better???!? I barely could understand what's suppose to similar. It was so fucking bad
>the vocals made me want to kms

I am not so confident about Forces being even Decent anymore if THATS The kinda music in that fucking game. Should've learnt after hearing the edgy as fuck INFINITE one.

>>387866610
Infinite's Theme is ironically good though. I love it.

>>387866165
The homing attack is necessary for 3D, there is a reason Sonic 3D Flickies Island included it.

>>387866775
3D Blast only had it as a shield powerup.

Homing attack is 100% unnecessary if you don't fall for the "gotta go fast meme", and have proper 3D visuals with proper depth and lighting.

>>387866835
Sonic 3D was also difficult to control, I don't think I am terrible at games, but I found it difficult to destroy enemies with jumps.

>>387866670
The little black and white part of his trailer was a bit much, but edgy as fuck lyrics aside the vocals on it sound way better than Fist Bump's

>>387866670
That why I gave it a pass, like

"Ok I hate it but it's pretty funny to think about, and I guess this is what the adeventure fags seem to live the most so I can tolerate it"

But this.... oh god it hurt my brain, there's nothing funny, it's so jarring. And I'm someone that likes Knight of the wind.

3D Sonic does work. Its just a matter if you're willing to pay top dollar for a 1-2 hour game. Sonic Unleashed as a whole is a 7, maybe an 8, I can see it being a 9 or 10 even if you're a major fan and can forgive its shortcomings. Sonic Mania's my new favorite Sonic but Sonic Unleashed's day levels are easily the most fun the series has ever been. They are exquisite; action packed, fast, difficult, the right length, full of detail. But achieving that kino moment is a huge cost.

@387867051
You don't get a (You).

>>387866835
just like lock on is unnecessary in zelda or any modern 3d game

>>387867258
Sonic is a platformer that should ideally have combat only when it adds to the platforming. There shouldn't be homing attack enemy chains, or enemies with life bars, or any of that shit.

>>387867051
Fuck off

>>387867051
Seriously what is this image?

>>387845849
Cost

File: 40d.gif (632KB, 242x185px) Image search: [Google]

632KB, 242x185px

>>387866670
>it's ironically good

>>387860303
SA1&2 were well received at the time. They ditched it just because and have been doing it ever since. I bet if Lost World caught on, we'd be getting more of that.

>>387867471 Don't ask.

if youre gonna post porn can it at least be of amys butt?

File: Chris-Straw.jpg (12KB, 233x204px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 233x204px

>>387867471
It's just some lame furfag comic, it's pretty shitty to be honest

>>387867985
This thread isn't that bad fuck off.

>>387845849
>What is SA2B

File: 1431316984382.png (387KB, 525x513px) Image search: [Google]

387KB, 525x513px

>>387868015

File: 1484277579837.webm (2MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1280x720px

>>387851728
This. The mechanics were perfect for a 3D sonic game. Now it's just a matter of the level design being good in the official release.

I felt Lost World could've been perfect with a little tweaking and much much better level design.

>>387868071
Overrated shit gaycube babbies keep making up as a decent game but it's really not

>>387865435
>>having to steer in a sonic game
>No
I have the game for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_sn-tzO5YU

>>387868089
What the fuck is this shit?

File: stop.jpg (85KB, 915x915px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 915x915px

>>387868089

>>387868697
Sega made a Sonic game for the handicapped? They truly are ahead of their time.

>>387868254
Fucking this, but no one gives a damn because "muh mario ripoff" and having a run button.

If they just tweaked sonic's control a liiiitle more, it coulda been awesome with more conventional levels.

>>387846026
>>387864819
I don't think you've played any of the adventure games in over a decade. They're beyond unplayble. The only 3D Sonic games that have worked and actually play well and don't control like shit are Unleashed, Colors and Generations.
>muh boost shit
It works. 3D Sonic games play more like F-Zero than Mario and you know what? It works. It's fun, I don't feel like I'm a gentle breeze gracing the control stick away from a 90 degree turn into a pit. The stages aren't just linear hallways (mostly). Boostshit was the best thing to happen to 3D Sonic and I'm glad they're bringing it back for Forces.

>>387845849
I personally think the direction they were going with Adventure would have worked, but every single game that had the style was unpolished as shit with wonky physics and controls. Though that issue seems to encompass most of the franchise unfortunately.

>>387869113
Sonic Rush influencing the franchise really was a great thing after the disastrous Sonic 06 and it's kept Sonic alive for the past 9 years, but I think that time is over now. People are getting tired of it.

One can only hope future 3D Sonic games are based off Mania. It's sold well and has been received well. Sega can't ignore that.

It can. Have you played Sonic Adventure Battle: 2 for the Nintendo Gamecube?

>>387845849

Sonic should fucking work better in 3D because you can actually see what's ahead of you and react rather than the level design being trial and error. It's just that they have incompetent and uncreative developers.

>>387870041
The reason Mania is going so well is because of 1 thing

They kept it simple.

The shift from 2D to adventure was way to dramatic, from the controls to what the player is suppose to take away from an absurd story with atrocious, unpolished Animation and voice acting that can only be ironically praised.

And it's not like its competitors like Mario 64 were perfect, none of these games aged well a decade later but sonic ever since the adventure series just couldn't keep things simple. Everyone had to e grand, they felt like the game needed more "variety" in what sonic can do himself (boosting, his air dash whatever) and the worlds he's running around it being extremely simple, straight forward and repeataitive. There is not A SINGLE 3D sonic that doesnt have reused assets in its level designs, even Generations is guilty of this.

With mania, they kept it simple.

Take whats already there's and work off that. It's actually a great example of a practice I like to call "less is more" game design.

Basically, evey level is so unique and boasts its own set of quirks, style and overall feelling but it never lingers on any of the same things from zone to zone. This leaves players wishing there's more and wanting to see what else is there to see, you're hooked without ever realizing it.

3D sonic doesn't really encourage this. it tries way to hard to make the world realistic but than adds in stuff you'd image would be in a song game and it doesn't mesh toether right. The levels are never something that feels alive, there's no unique flavour to differentiate it from other levels. There's a disconnect and it breaks people out of being able to immerse fully in sonic world and just highlights how jarring everything looks an feels.

>>387847219
>>387847508
So, a better Sonic R?

>>387870880

If they just improved upon Sonic Adventure 2 they would have had a really solid formula rather than creating such a divisive fanbase.

>>387845849
It can work, it's just that Sonic Team doesn't understand how to do it well. I've played this fangame called Robo Blast 2 recently and it was a great demonstration of a 3D Sonic game's potential. Utopia's also a good attempt, but I think the demo level was far too open compared to a conventional Sonic level.

>>387871085
I have always wanted some kind of sequel to sonic R, make the controls feel less retarded. bring back the level designer and you got a decent game.

I think the special stages in Mania had a decent idea, especially the way Sonic behaves when he jumps.