Who is to blame for the death of RTS? Casuls? Consoles? Blizzard?

>>387786009
>Casuls? Consoles? Blizzard?
Yes.

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>consoles

WE're all to blame

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None of those actually.

Mobas/ASSFAGGOTS did.

Blizzard and esports.

Partly the internet. RTS games were fun as fuck when the main focus was on a good campaign and dicking around with AI and your friends in LAN. Online competitive RTS is a niche at best, way too frustrating and hardcore for the 2017 mainstream

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>>387786009
Genres die when people stop buying their games.

Simple as that, no magic, illuminati or aliens involved.

>>387786009
Blizzard

Normies don't like the genre and normies flooded into the video game market in the past 15 years.

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>RTS
>Dead
HAH! Sure.

>>387786083
Well played

>>387786185
Well then RTS sure as shit isn't dead

>>387786135
This. Blizzard killed it twice via Starcraft with esport tryhards and WC3 spawning RTS/RPG clones and MOBAs.

>>387786009
WE

>>387786009
actually it's non-casuls. if you could play Starcraft on battlenet without first studying buildorders for 10 hours it might be more popular. there is no balance, the only way to play is to tryhard

>>387786009
2007

>>387786576
>strategy? in a strategy game? the fuck

>>387786009
hero units
so yeah blizzard

RTS is a casual genre, if you weren't a retarded troglodyte you'd know this

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>>387786637
>having to learn specifically one response to anything your opponent can do
>having to master life at 300 apm
>fun? in a game?

>>387786009
publishers goldrushing to consoles who increased their playerbase during the last generation explosively, and their inability to make RTS console compatible.
And thus they created the narrative that "RTS are dead" to guide public opinion to forget they ever existed and to "ease" the lack of published RTS, just like with the horror survival genre.

>>387786637
he is not wrong, there is no place for the more sedate players, who make up the majority of buyer.

If most of your customers are "not welcome" no shit you player will abandon the game.

Video games is a casual medium, if you weren't a retarded virgin you'd know this

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If you've noticed, fightin' and RTS both require learning the game. People want shit they can just jump into right away

>spends 5k hours in assfaggots and sits at 3k mmr

>>387786009
Casuals, e-sports and e-sport apologists (gooks, etc).

>>387786652
Joan of Arc, William Wallace, Montezuma II and others want to talk with you, sweetie.

>>387787041
I think he means heroes in MP

It was actually me. I killed the RTS all by myself. Shot it right between the eyes.

>>387786009
The existence of games that grant instant gratification.
It's just the harsh reality. RTS is now only played by grandpas

>>387786009
>death of RTS?
Total Warhammer is in the top 20 most played games on Steam right now, the genre is far from dead, unless you consider only gook clickers like Starcraft as "RTS".

>>387788103
grand strategy and even RTTs are different genres

>>387786081
C&c red alert 2 yuris revenge greatest game ever

Fuck you EA for buying westwood studios

RIP

>>387788330
RTT is literally a subgenre of RTS, it's the same shit without basebuilding and easy unit replenishment.

>>387787123
Nice work you did.

>>387787861
>RTS
>not instant gratification
Nani? You get resources with just a few clicks. And the more units you have the more resources you can gather. That's pretty gratifying desu

>>387786089
>Mobas/ASSFAGGOTS did.

Your post basically meant casual though you retard.

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It's just lack of innovation in the core formula. Strategy games that actually carved out their own niche e.g. Total War, are doing incredibly well.

It's just that no one wants to play your Starcraft clone like 20 years later.

>>387786009
Mobas did it. RTS have been stale for a long time and leauge made a fuckton of money on dumb people.
Why make a new game if making a few skins get the same results profit wise?

>>387786257
Ok lets ask the real questions here: how do we get them the fuck out again? Theres too much money and too many dumb shits in the gaming industry now.

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>>387786040
>>387786081
>consoles killed rts even though they existed and were popular way before the whole rts genre

>>387788915
You can't just pick the game up and start beating up people online or get free shit.
A rts game in 2017 would pause anytime you build something to ask if you wanted to SHARE and give you shit like dmg boost for units that can't die everytime you manage to click something.

>>387788103
>total war
fuck off with that shit. Most of the game is done in a turn based manner and the real time battles are an unresponsive and boring mess for the sake of muh realism

>"""""competitive""""" multiplayer
>symmetrical factions, maps, etc
>lack of a fun campaign
>mobas
>blizzard
>lack of imagination: take your pic of far-futuristic, fantasy or ww2, never anything original

>>387789791
But realism is what normies want. They consider anything else faggy remember?

>>387786081
C&C was maybe the only RTS game that played fine on consoles.
Other than micromanagement being difficult, it was fine, but then you can't micro in a game designed for mouse.

No, the big problem was EA killing the series when it was in its prime.

>>387789734
git gud noob

>>387789204
>It's just lack of innovation in the core formula
>noone wants to play a sc clone 20 years later
>fps/racing/fighting etc games (literally all genres) can sell the exact same copy pasted formula withouth any fucking problem but rts games are too samey

>total war can sell the exact same shit just with swapped models for decades and won't have problem doing so in the foreseeable future but rts games can't even be slightly similar to each other

just say that you think the genre is shit, but this "they aren't innovative enough" is the biggest bullshit ever. There is way more difference between the big rts IPs than in any other genre.

>>387790220
You're right.
From a business perspective however this won't make the genre profitable again.

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>>387790253

WE

It's a genre that entails high production costs, long development time, difficult balancing, but which is not very popular at the same time. If you've got a big budget you're better off spending it on a shooter or something else popular right now, and if you don't, but still want to make a strategy game, you can make something like CK II or EU IV, those kinds of games probably don't cost that much to develop.

>>387790761
>high production costs
Really? It seems big companies love to overinvest and then shut down projects when they fail to meet their overbloated expectations.

>>387790673
ARE NUMBER ONE

>>387786009
We ran out of people who actually cared about the games they make. I think when most of the big names stop milking the cash cow and developement goes back to the few people who actually give a fuck, we'll start getting good RTS games again.
For example,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT29OGk_Byc
I only found about this last night and it looks like everything I ever wanted. I can only hope they manage to finish the fucking thing, tho having a Kikestarter campaign sounds always dodgy to me these days.

>>387790913
they should just make sprite-based RTS again desu
games like AoE 2 and C&C still look fucking dope, how expensive can that shit be

>>387791063
They still made 3D models to make those sprites, and I imagine it was a pain to make sure every 2D animation looks correct

>>387786009
>Who is to blame

WE

I hate EA for not supporting Command and Conquer.

A lot of modern RTS games just aren't that good.
Especially when they try to innovate in all the wrong ways.

I still enjoy Starcraft 2, but I had hoped Dawn of War 3, Grey Goo, Desert of Kharak or Act of Aggression and so on would take over that role. But they all weren't up to the task. Although I had fun with them.

>>387786576
You don't have to play it on battlenet though.
Even if you will play ranked games for a while, will you not fall to a tier of fellow lamers?

>>387788457
>Fuck you EA for buying westwood studios
>yuris revenge was made after that

>>387791219
A few months ago I was played 8 bit armies for example. And it was like a poor mans version parody of CNC1. There was really no reason to play it at all over a 1995 game.

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>>387791137
we've got much better tech by now, I don't think the 3d>2d transition is that much of a pain anymore

and you still need to make models sure, but all the optimization and hyper-detailing is unnecessary, just look how fucking shit the AoE 2 models actually are

like they've got an AoE 2 team that can shit out expansions once a year, with entirely new models and everything that often look better than the originals

>>387791441
>how fucking shit the AoE 2 models actually are
The female villager closeup looks like a tranny

>>387786009
EA and Blizzard and the general PCbro crowed there is a new Sudden Strike but people don't play RTS anymore.

>>387786009
thinly veiled aoe4 announcment hype thread?

The problem is probably that RTS were not games you play in teams and the degree of autism required to get actually good is comparable to MOBAs.

So it's esports on the one end and casuals on the other end.

>>387791014
>hyped by a teaser
opinion discarded

>>387791609
but I often played RTS in teams

>>387791609
Your wrong. Initially RTS games were just single player experiences with some multiplayer tagged along so you could clash units with your friends.

Having to "master a RTS" is just recent autism of the competitive scene and marketing departments.

>>387791609
>The problem is probably that RTS were not games you play in teams
People played RTS in teams but it wasn't hardcore multiplayer rank mode.

because multiplayer/esports/balance
while disregarding good sp campaign

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>>387791478
She looks like a neanderthal carved out of wood. I mean shit, this is stuff that rejects from the steam workshop could put out in a day, let alone any professional modeler.

>>387786009
I would blame ... RTS
despite early expectations it never reached advantages of TBS

How to make a good RTS:

1. Add 8 factions with no balance at all
2. Make a cheesy campaign with lots of cutscenes
3. Give each unit at most 1 ability
4. Allow the player to build thousands of units
5. ?????
6. PROFIT

>>387790253
90's and early 2000's had more innovative titles, since then there was nothing like Z, which in its strife for popularity actually turned its own sequel into generic RTS, Populous: the beginning which changed into an RTS and brought it unique blend of native american culture mixed with tribal theme and gameplay which had terraforming in 1998, Submarine Titans which is still probably the only underwater strategy game or Battle Realms, which had far more interesting game mechanics, but due to low budget and weak marketing could not gain a sufficient foothold when you could wait 8 months and get Warcraft 3 from a studio with bigger name, more money and agressive advertisement campaign.

>>387789515
Thats wrong tho

The decrease in global IQ. For the first time in human history people are getting more stupid.

>>387791915
>>387791478
And actually, she probably is a tranny, they most likely reused the face from some other model (male).

>>387792063
>players of "strategic" games are smart!!!!11111

>>387792086
She also looks like she has manly chest hair, so I guess Ensemble really just made one human model

>>387792009
>Give each unit at most 1 ability
More like give 1 ability, but only to couple of units to make them stand out, or otherwise you get RA3 where every unit has one, but one third of them are garbage, second one is boring and last third is borderline broken shit which should be its own special ability and not something a basic unit should have.

>mongoloids would actually bitch about how the genre is dead than play Sudden Strike 4
Sure, it's not made by the Russians, so it's not as good or (sub)genre defining as the previous games, but it's still a solid RTS and you niggers just ignore it. You don't deserve any RTS games.

>>387791729
>recent

I remember "competitive" SC being a thing for way more than a decade by now.
It was a lot of fun to play it with other kids from the neighbourhood at the local internet café around year 2000, though.

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>>387786009
Starcraft and Koreans fucked it. Making it impossible to get into it casually without years of grinding to 'git gud' and then tconditioning asians to think it's a trend (asians go fucking wild for any kind of trend) thereby convincing other RTS makers that the super face paced, impossibry difficult to play RTS is the best one

Fucking asians ruin everything eventually, now they are ruining sneakers of all things. Can you cunts just fuck off for a while and stick to making tasty food instead of hopping on every fucking band wagon and sending a never ending list of products to sold out status or on selling because of your 'me first' culture of greed.

>>387792063
>For the first time in human history people are getting more stupid.
UH I wonder why?

>>387792310
>mongoloids would actually bitch about how the genre is dead than play Sudden Strike 4
I would rather suck out your turds than to play SS4, don't waste your time shilling for that travesty of strategy game

>>387792543
cilthy fasual

>>387792621
What's wrong with it apart from the drastically cut engagement ranges compared to previous SS games? I thought RTS players would like the reduction of the degree of realism.

>>387786009
>mfw try to install from disc the other day and windows 7 won't even run original AoE2 in compat mode
fucking windows is to blame.

don't suggest fixes I literally tried everything short of hacking windows.

>>387788103
>total war
Thats like saying Civilisation is keeping RTS afloat. Games are fucking turn based.

>>387791139
ARE NUMBER ONE

>>387788103
Total war is awesome but it's essentially a well stretched out RTS. It's like an AOE match that lasts dozens of hours compared to a half hour. Unit development, tech upgrades, buildings and battles are kind of just pulled through a taffy machine. Which is cool, it's different, but it's not an RTS.

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>>387786009
>Who is to blame for the death of RTS?
Relic
the RTS genre would still be at least somewhat alive if they hadn't shat the bed not only with Company of Heroes 2 but also with Dawn of War 3

>>387793405
>shat the bed with Company of Heroes 2
Wat? I thought CoH2 has made a major comeback with all the patches and is both good AND popular at the moment.

>>387793484
first impressions matter a lot, especially to the average joe
CoH2 was a piece of shit on launch and that repelled a lot of players myself included

dota is exceedingly popular, op. RTS are doing better than ever.

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Don't forget:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nBZO7WTSsI

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>>387793551

Total War: Warhammer is the best thing since sliced bread. And it's still underrated.

Who cares if it's an RTS or not.

>>387792226
Seeing how it's all scaled down, it's possible.

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>>387793606
I can't take this, I've already fucked up an exam today, I've had too much disappointment

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>>387786009
AoE2 is literally the only game keeping the genre alive. Tons of people play HD edition, and thats not even counting the voobly community

>>387786009
>doing a knight rush on aoe2 HD
>it actually works almost every time
nothing feels better then fucking up the enemy economy early on with just a few units

>>387786089
MOBAs have literally nothing to do with RTS games, besides their origin being a mod for an RTS/RPG hybrid game. MOBAs are literally multiplayer, teambased ARPGs, they have more in common with Diablo than with Starcraft. They also attract completely different audiences. I'm an RTS guy and I have o interest whatsoever in MOBAs. Many of my friends are MOBA fans and would not play an RTS even if you paid them. Stop blaming MOBAs for the "death" of RTS games. The only cases where you're allowed to do that is like with games like DoW3 that were ruined by dumbshit devs trying to pander to MOBA audiences - which was incredibly retarded from them because as everyone with a working brain knows, the two don't overlap much.

>>387794202

rts games are literarally just action games and mobas just stripped out the uninteresting busywork

>>387794281
literally wrong
>mobas just stripped out the uninteresting busywork
half the fucking genre is based around uninteresting busywork

RTS are the only genre I can not get any better in no matter how hard I try. I eventually eventually got good at fighting games, eventhough I've been useless at it for the vast majority of my """gaming career""".

RTS games I've only gotten worse. Like when StarCraft was new I'd win like every few games now its like I win every 20 games and that's only because the other person lags out.

>>387794281
>control 1 spellcasting unit
>in a solely multiplayer setting
You mean they only kept the uninteresting busywork.

>>387786009
>Why is RTS dead

AoE2, it's the ultimate RTS and nothing can beat it.
There is an active and slowly growing community (Voobly+HD rerelease) even after all these years.

Even Supreme Commander has a small, dedicated community keeping the game alive (faforever). Sure it's not as big as AoE2 but still.

>>387794339
>half the fucking genre is based around uninteresting busywork

the dead half

the other half is incredibly successful and played at every level from gutter casual to nolife pro

>>387794281
50% of the average MOBA match is just farming gold and XP. It's literally the dullest genre I ever. I wish I could move to the timeline where footman frenzy became the a standalone genre instead of fucking Dota.

>>387794421
no, half the genre, what do you think lasthitting and farming is?

>>387786009
DOTA

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>>387794505
>that time my teammates left and I dominated solo using the blinking cenarius ghost that could cast forked lightning and phoenix and I entered a flow state so powerful it was like being on drugs
literally one of the best moments of my life

>>387789463
You don't.
And why bother with it anyway? Gaming has become such a large market that there's plenty of games being release to appeal to pretty much any niche out there. You just need to look, instead of sticking to whatever big title is being mass advertised by a AAA publisher.

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>you will never protect your villagers as they tend to their berry picking
>you will never cheese the enemy with a massive early game villager rush
>you will never look upon your villager horde as your own beloved sons

>>387795119
>>you will never cheese the enemy with a massive early game villager rush
not early but you can do that with based spanish

>>387786089
they were dead long before mobas took over the market

>>387786009
They became too intimidating and stressful to be enjoyable.