ITT: Game mechanics that break immersion so hard that you can

ALBW's open ended dungeon system and the item rental system that accompanied it were an objective improvement you dirty plebeian.

The paint wall thing is the single best game centric mechanic they've come up with because it totally changed how you navigated 2D space in the dungeons and overworld and they did A TON of good shit with it so you were using it constantly. It wasn't some tacked on bullshit like the great sea, wolf link, or skyloft.

1 BOTW
2 ALBW
3 MM
4 ALTTP
5 OOT

Immersion isn't a priority. And certainly not over pacing and gameplay.

>>387699052
Invalid opinion, shitter.

>>387699052

It made perfect sense since Ravio is Other Side Link looking to make a shekel or two.

>>387699052
>Get access to items that allow you to explore the world much earlier and without needing to go to a dungeon to get them first
>Also allows you to approach enemies in more varied ways
>This is supposed to be a bad thing

>>387699232
>objective improvement
Over what? 2-D Zelda has always been shit, ALBW is no exception.

>>387699232
>objective improvement
Oh yeah, sure. Objective improvement. When you can do any dungeon at any time, every dungeon must be designed so the player can beat it with no upgrades. When you clear a dungeon, you gain upgrades, like higher attack, higher defense, better magic. And as the game goes on, you upgrade items. But the dungeons have stayed the same, they don't progress in difficulty to challenge your strength. Therefore, ALBW has a BACKWARDS DIFFICULTY CURVE.

Objective improvement MY ASS. ALBW was fucking garbage and its fans need to fuck off and die.
>durr other Zeldas r linear!!!!
Other Zeldas have proper difficulty progression and well-defined, flowing stories. Which are quality standards that most game developers have the decency to follow. Fuck, ALBW doesn't even have the decency to have it's own map. Like Far Cry Primal, it recycles a map from an older game. Epic game!!

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>>387699052
What's wrong with the immersion here? It also sets up perfectly for Ravio being the hero, since he's already been to all of the dungeons and gotten their items, but was unable to finish. It's really immersive because it leads you to wonder why Ravio has those items, and then there's a perfectly fine explanation.

>>387699232
My dude

>>387699307
>>387699232
The item system sucked and pretty much boiled down to you finding an area in the overworld that you can't pass without a certain item so you go back buy it and end up using that item for the next dungeon.
It was pretty much the same thing except less rewarding. The best part of a zelda game was going through a dungeon to be rewarded with a cool item. Here they spoil all the items and they all suck

>>387699790
>Zelda
>Difficult, ever
Fucking kek.
There were multiple tiers of dungeons, you don't just unlock the entire game from the get go, and the later unlocked dungeons ARE harder. I'm sure a hacked 3DS can download a save of ALBW with the extra difficulty mode unlocked

>>387699232
You like MM and BOTW is your favourite. Opinion discarded

>>387700126
>Dissing on MM at all
Honestly kill yourself

>>387699232
I like the idea of an open ended dungeon system, but in the end it hurt the quality of these dungeons because each one had to be built around one item instead of your entire arsenal. It also made the game feel easier over all because dungeons were balanced around being able to go into them in any order. And I don't know about you, but I personally enjoy acquiring new items in the dungeons. In most cases I found that to be the bigger reward than whatever trinket you got at the end of the dungeon because it opened new means of exploring the overworld, and added another element to possible puzzle combinations that I as the player would need to be aware of.

>>387699232
Too bad they didn't make use of the wall mechanic enough after Eastern Palace. I loved the Wall walking and felt ut was woefully underused.

The rental system and open dungeons are fucking garbage. Because you can tackle them all at any time, the game provides no difficulty curve. Dungeons do not get any more complex or difficult. All of the Dark World Dungeons are easy and linear, and dungeons like Turtle Rock are a fucking joke. Compare to lanarynths like LA's Turtle Rock or ALTTP's Mire/Tock/Tower and it's abysmal. Remember how you could step into ALTTP'S Ice Palace and get your shit slapped because the damage ramped up? Doesn't happen in ALBW. The only truly creative dungeons were Darkness and Mire, the latter of which which utilized going back and forth between worlds in such a way that you realize it was really lacking from the rest of the game.

Renting items is shit too because they're all stupidly strong (especially with infinite recharging magic) and there us no incentive to Buy them because they're cheap and the game throws money at you should you have the gall to die in the easiest 2D Zelda.

>>387699968
Walking around an overworld full of a ton of things you can't access yet isn't good game design.

How the fuck is trying to do something and having to say "Guess I need to come back when the game decides to give me the item for this" and leave to poke around for the one place you are supposed to go good. But in ALBW if you figure out the solution to a puzzle you can most likely solve it now if you have the means to get your hands on an item supposedly bad?

>>387700126
Get in the helicopter

>>387700285
>and there us no incentive to Buy them
There's a TON of incentive to buy them. You can only upgrade them if you buy them. And you'd lose them if you die while renting.

>>387700285
I don't remember for sure but I think you had needed to buy the tools to upgrade them, which makes the game even easier because the upgraded tools are even more OP than the normal ones.

>>387700178
>liking MM
What's it like to have the shittiest, most plebeian taste?

>>387700406
>He wants the entire game unlocked from the start
>ALBWfags want their games already solved, discovered, mapped, unlocked, and looted for them so they can go on a tour

>>387700178
Even phantom hourglass was more fun than fedoras mask

>>387699232
>ALTTP Turtle Rock
>Puzzles built around and requiring
>Titans Mitt
>Fire Rod
>Ice Rod
>Cane of Somaria
>Mirror Shield (received in dungeon)

>ALBW Turtle Rock
>Items needed
>Ice Rod

You could do this for any lategame Zelda dungeon, 2D or 3D. Stone Tower in MM required use of all your character masks and weapons for example.

There's no progression, no building of mechanics, no curve of design in ALBW. The strength of Zelda's later dungeons has always been using everything you've received up until that point to get through.

I don't think ALBW is bad, it's a sound game but it's far too easy and the dungeon design really suffered especially when the game itself is inviting comparisons to ALTTP

>>387700203
This guy has it right.

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>>387699307
The three aren't mutually exclusive.

I didn't find it immersion-breaking or "pointless", but I absolutely agree that it's vastly inferior to finding the items yourself. That was one of the biggest rewards for going into a dungeon, and the best part was not knowing what item you would get or how it would work.

>>387700639
How am I supposed to know? I have no experience on it unlike you.

>>387700524
>>387700636
There's no need to upgrade them because they're fucking broken already, and there's no need to keep because it's near impossible to fucking die. At most it's just a use for the thousands of rupees the game throws at you

>>387700639
I don't know; my favorite isn't Twilight Rehash.

>>387700406
>"Guess I need to come back when the game decides to give me the item for this"

There is an entire genre based around this exact premise. Having certain stuff gated off by certain tools allows for the developers to tune the game's difficulty in a somewhat linear fashion. If you can go anywhere at any time the game either needs to be incredibly easy the entire time or have enemy scaling which is hot trash.

>>387701005
>There is an entire genre based around this exact premise
And it's a garbage genre.

>>387700406
It's good game design because it encourages exploration and critical thinking of how to approach things, tard

You want the game to hand you the solution instead of exploring for it and finding out where to go on your own.

>>387701063
Why is that?

Come to think of it, it's really ALBW's fault that BotW's puzzle and dungeon design exists.

At some point, Nintendo decided instant gratification was more important to the experience than finding items and slowly building in strength/competence until you can complete a dungeon. Beating dungeons in any order sounds good on paper until you realize that it doesn't really impact the experience positively other than breaking a convention. It doesn't make the experience linear but it does make it less involving because you're very rarely, if ever, stopped from exploring an area.

The only real gate in BotW is stamina, just like the only real gate in ALBW is the Titan's Mitt and related items. Being able to do everything whenever you want doesn't really make the game anymore interesting because there's no question of whether or not you're physically capable of doing it. Not even touching how shitty puzzle design becomes.

>>387700868
The problem is that doing it that way doesn't work in an open-world style game. The thing they were going for is the ability to do the dungeons in any order you wanted.

Honestly, the only issue with ALBW is the dungeon difficulty(and actual difficulty) and that isn't linked to when you can get items or not.

>>387701275
BotW encorages way more exploration than ALBW did though and the overworld features much more interesting secrets.

I genuinely think ALBW did open world wrong and suffered for it while BOTW did it right and thrived.

>>387700774
Add to
>>387699790
Full analysis on failings of ALBW dungeons.

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>>387699052
Not necessarily mechanics, but any cheap "le fourth wall XD" bullshit.
>dude we'll delete your save file lmao
>the real world is another dimension!1!!
>haris pilton haha do you get it?
It's cheap, and only works on teenagers who are in their phase of worshipping Deadpool as the pinnacle of comedy.

>>387700108
>Light World
>Dark World (Thieves before Desert/Mire)
>Lorule Castle
wow great "tiers". all of dark world is the same difficulty

Compare to ALTTP's dungeon structure where you can do any in a tier at any time but need all the items to move on to the next, more complex and difficult tier.

ALTTP
>Light World
>Darkness (Hammer)
>Swamp, Skull, Thieves (Hookshot, Fire Rod, Titan's Mitt)
>Ice, Mire (Blue Mail [extra], Cane of Somaria)
>Turtle Rock (Mirror Shield)
>Ganon's Tower

ALTTP is fairly open while maintaining a good structure and difficulty progression in its dungeon design. ALBW completely lacks that.

>>387700178
Literally crawling in my skin: the game.

>>387701907
Several more like the desert temple opened up at different times. It's clear you know little about the game.

>>387702116
Can you read?

I literally posted that you have to do Thieves before Mire because you need the Sand Rod. That is the only thing in the Dark World that you can't do right away because Ravio sells everything else.

Do YOU know the game? Desert and Mire are the same area.

>>387699052
Ravio was Dark world Link

Dark world link completed all the dungeons to save his world and got all the itens, but his world was doomed anyway
Dark world link then got into normal hirule
Dark world link rented and sold you the itens


Is literaly IN LORE. so its not immersion breaking

>>387700829
I've read all of this and I just want to punch him in the head jesus. I hate casual who try to sounds smart.