The current identity crisis of fighting games

>>387675497
they're just underfunded because casuals and retards can't into fighting games
only reason GG hasn't downgraded is because they've been jewing their hardcore fanbase extremely hard

>>387675497
>Fighting games are a forgotten genre this gen, and you don't need to particular logic to realize why.

KI did fine
MKX did great
Inj 2 is probably doing great

Japanese fighters are doing bad. They didn't get with the times and decided to appeal to waifufags who just want to buy dress up DLC instead of the hardcore and casual dudebro crowd. The fact that a failure like SFV is the most successful Japanese fighter with Tekken 7 just barely behind it and everyone else not even contesting speaks volumes about the state of the eastern side of the industry

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Fighting games suffer from the same sickness they've always suffered from: A stagnant playerbase that fears and ridicules anything new that might force them to switch up their game. And that's an attitude that has only gotten worse over time. Look at how they treat most 3D fighting games. Look at how they treat fighting games that have a bigger and more interesting arena. Look at how they treat "party" fighting games. It's all fear and ridicule. They fear having to learn a new way of playing, and they ridicule everyone who is either able to adapt or who's new to the scene and not playing the same games they play.

Of course Street Fighter, KoF, etc. are niche games. That's because despite all the visual changes, they're essentially still the same games they were 20 years ago. Imagine if FPS games were all still Doom clones. Imagine if people ridiculed Homeworld because it wasn't enough like Dune 2. How popular would modern RPGs be if instead of a hugely diverse range of games we only ever got Wizardry 1 clones with updated graphics and some tweaked mechanics?

Why don't games like Smash get taken serious by so many people? Why don't we have more games like Bushido Blade? Why aren't more developers interested in trying a new twist on the genre? Why are most gameplay "innovations" found in minute details that only the real hardcore gives a shit about? Why is the biggest selling point of popular newcomers like Skullgirls the fact that it slavishly adheres to the same old standards as other popular games? It has nothing to do with fighting games being harder than other games, or with casual players having some sort of bias against fighting games (though certain obnoxiously elitist elements of the FGC certainly don't help). It's because the FGC is a stagnant cesspool who refuse to accept anything other than what they've been playing all along.

>>387676439
>Imagine if FPS games were all still Doom clones

Isn't this exactly what people are bitiching about? The genre peaked with Quake 3 and has simply declined since then into crap like Overwatch and Battleborn?

Stuff doesn't get ridiculed if it's new it gets shat on if it's bad. The step into 3D went extremely well and Bushido Blade was liked, but it was a poorly balanced and buggy game because Square is absolute dicks at making anything remotely technical. People don't like Smash simply because it's not fun to them, people like what they like. Why hasn't Smash made a huge leap in evolution after 20 years of the same formula and stagnating?

>>387676796
>Isn't this exactly what people are bitiching about? The genre peaked with Quake 3 and has simply declined since then into crap like Overwatch and Battleborn?
First, being a grognard isn't helping the genre. Just because you prefer Q3A has no relation on Overwatch being a thousand times more popular than Q3A ever was. As good as Q3A was, that still doesn't mean the genre can't evolve past it, even if said evolution means other games are less perfect. If every modern shooter was just Q3A or UT, modern shooters would be as dead as modern fighting games, if not even more so.

Second, you fail to realize that Q3A was already way more sophisticated than Doom was. There are so many concepts and features in Q3A that the devs of the original Doom hadn't even imagined. What I'm saying is that fighting games haven't reached the level of Q3A and with the mindset of the FGC they will never ever get their Q3A.

>Stuff doesn't get ridiculed if it's new it gets shat on if it's bad.
It's both. Sure games like Smash and Bushido Blade and many other titles have had their share of issues, but it's not like the same isn't true for Street Fighter and Tekken and KoF. But despite that, Street Fighter keeps getting made and sold, while innovative fighting games virtually don't exist, and have actually become more and more rare over time.

>Why hasn't Smash made a huge leap in evolution after 20 years of the same formula and stagnating?
Smash has made far more progress in 18 years than Street Fighter has in 26 years.

And that's just looking at a single title. I'm not saying Street Fighter should suddenly transform into a different game. I'm saying the FGC should be more open to games that aren't Street Fighter, or whatever games they've devoted their lives to. There are so many people that just start throwing huge tantrums every time something different comes up. WAAH THIS IS TOO DIFFERENT IT'S NOT A REAL GAME I CAN'T LEARN SOMETHING NEW THIS IS TOO HARD FOR ME BAN IT FROM EVO.

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Honestly theres so many fighting games for you to pick and choose from right now that it's insane to say that the genre is dying.

I get that its creatively "stale" but even that might be taking it too far. Every fighting game has different mechanics that you need to learn and adjust to. Sure the majority of them have hold back to block, overheads, motion inputs and such but then there's things that are exclusive to each game, such as pushblock, air dashing, rolling, clashes, and so forth.

Yes, Street Fighter may take the spot light more often than not, I'm not saying thats not true. But there always has to be a top dog. That doesnt mean that other games cant thrive too. Hell there's been almost daily DB Fighter Z threads since it was announced.

Maybe I'm just rambling but my point is, FG's aren't dead, the scene is thriving more than ever, and there's a massive plethora of games to choose from.

>>387675497
>As a game developer
stopped reading there

>>387676439
>Why don't games like Smash get taken serious by so many people?
Because smash isn't a fighting game

>>387678172
>you fail to realize that Q3A was already way more sophisticated than Doom was
And SF2 was way more sophisticated to Yie Ar Kung-Fu and VF and SFEX add another dimension and different mechanics to mess with.
>Smash has made far more progress in 18 years than Street Fighter has in 26 years.

This is a straight up lie. SF has went through so many changes from adding various super selects, totally different core mechanic properties magic systems for normals, new mechanics like alpha counters or parries that completely change the meta, and even moving from 2D to 3D with SF EX. Smash has had very little innovation and the biggest change in Smash has been final smashes, a mechanic that isn't even used by a bunch of the hardcore community.
> while innovative fighting games virtually don't exist
Who is at fault for this? SF has been through so many changes, far more than most franchises, it's amazing to see people bitch about it.
>I'm saying the FGC should be more open to games that aren't Street Fighter
They've already played everything else, you would know this if you looked at any tournaments and arcades before the dark ages, everyone went back to SF because the new games were just absolute buggy shit (see KoF2000) or not fun (almost any Dragon Ball game).

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>>387678757
>This is a straight up lie. SF has went through so many changes from adding various super selects, totally different core mechanic properties magic systems for normals, new mechanics like alpha counters or parries that completely change the meta,
And half of those were lifted straight from another franchise that is now dead.

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>>387675497
for the most part, SNK and Capcom did tons of innovation for fighting games, but for some reason only Capcom really took off in the US, americans just never gave other fighting games the chance they deserve

>>387678613
Thank you for illustrating the point.

>>387678898
magic system was technically in SF2 so Darkstalkers only has a shitty prototype to alpha counters

>half

L O L DS deserved to die because the fanbase is cancer who would rather throw their money at Felicia models over playing the game

>>387675497
stop forcing everything to be different you fucking ngiger

Fighting game's crisis today is the same as last gen's and the gen before that.

It's a 1v1 game and the mass majority of people do not like the idea of losing to another player. No amount of "innovation" nerfing or simplication will ever top that fact. You can get away without in team games like LoL or COD because you can always blame someone else for your shortcoming, but when it comes to fighting games, there's no one else to blame but yourself or the game, and most people will absolutely blame the game over their own lack of skill. They will put no effort into practicing because they think they should be handed a victory.

You're fucking stupid if you think fighting games haven't done shit to involve the genre throughout the years. They've introduced and reinvented several mechanics. But none of those will ever be seen or practiced by your casual player as they'll drop the game a week in and never dive into its mechanical depth.

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>>387678509
problem is, the scene has been keeping the status quo since decades ago, and now with internet play, you see good fighters get forgotten soon and only the real fans stick to it, whereas any capcom game will have constant players throught its life

>>387679095
So this whole thread exists because you're butthurt people don't consider your stale as fuck Smash game a fighting game? Maybe if Smash evolved as much as fighters it could hang, but that series is primitive as fuck and has been practically the same game since 64.

>>387679127
People aren't playing the old Street Fighter and Marvel games either. It's almost like once games get really really old, not many people want to play them anymore.

>>387679359
MvC2 was able to live for 10 years
Darkstalkers couldn't survive a year

>>387675497
This is only ever true for the Western FGC. Japan and a good portion of the Asian scene don't have this mindset of "failing genre" because the playerbase play what they like. The West is too fixated on going eSports and this is very evident with how the figureheads, old guards and supposed pillars of the scene are behaving when people started calling out their bullshit. Capcom games have a stranglehold on the Western scene simply because its what the old guards have played before, its also the same comoany thats offering them money in both revenue and prize pots so its understandable that they sway people to just play Capcom games. Tekken will always be Tekken, always the bridesmaid but never the bride in terms of popularity in the West, and anime fighters like Guilty Gear have this stigma of having this ridiculous idea that it has 100 hit combos and no footsies and not being "honest" when its far from the truth, preventing people from even playing them without some sort of prejudice.

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I'm a huge Tekken fan, and have been since the 90s. Even I'm feeling burnt the fuck out on it, especially since Tekken 7 is just Tekken 5. Jap devs need to do something big with their fighters. Do a Tekken 3 or 4 when it comes to evolving shit.

If they want fighters to become big again, they need to break the mold.

>>387679494
>Japan and a good portion of the Asian scene don't have this mindset of "failing genre" because the playerbase play what they like.

Xrd almost bombed in arcades because the pros didn't like it until the west started becoming active in it and ArcSys made community polls.

>>387679468
Darkstalkers 3 was at fucking Super Battle Opera in 2004, 7 years after the game's release, you goddamn moron.

>>387676439
Fighting games are diverse and has evolved more than any other genre.
Look at Combo Breaker, EVO or any major fighting game tournament.
They have people from all around the world, several different fighting games and you have legends like Daigo, Tokido, and Justin Wong who are known for playing several different games at once.
If you seriously can't tell the difference between Tekken and Street Fighter or Street Fighter 2 and Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike, you're a retard.

>>387679583
This is news to me. Where are the polls for that?

>>387679625
where was it in 2003 you nigger?
Oh right Capcom didn't want to advertise another port that year!

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>>387675497
You're no more of a game dev than I am so shut the fuck up you dumb cunt. You, at no point, ever had a point in your big, arrogant jumble of text. You mention GG but not anything that sets it apart from the other games in its genre, you bring up the fucking visuals when that has NO impact on how the game is played whatsoever, and therefore no relation to your pathetic mewling about a lack of creativity.

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>>387679890

>>387676069
>KI is doing fine.
its good that i-
>MKX did great.
>INJ 2 is doing great.

Thanks for stating that garbage doing good is okay.

>>387675497
We should blame stupidity of vidya developers, mainly Capcom. They are trying so hard to get the CoD audience it almost hurts.

Let's take MvC:I as an example. This game feels like someone took UMvC3, replaced assists because they were "confusing" with gem system, made it slightly slower, replaced 3v3 with 2v2... And then they've realised that final concept is too simple so they've added tag-in system from SFxT which essentially ruins whole concept of accessibility and at the same time will scare old fans away.