No Man's Sky

>>387304113
nope

>>387304113
It will never be good

>>387304113
this game has left such a bad taste in peoples mouths that it will never be good.

>>387304167
>>387304202
>>387304270

I heard they added a patch recently that basically made it into the game that was promised from the start.

>>387304312
It didn't tho. The added "multiplayer" is literally just floating orbs.

>>387304270
but if it eats pineapple will it be sweet?

It can't be good since the basic gameplay loop is so fucking boring

Why the fuck do fans of this game fail to mention how linear the warp jumps and entire galaxy are? I pirated it, put in maybe 5 hours into it and made 3 jumps before realising that there's no way to change jump coordinates or jump back to previous systems. What a travesty of a space faring game. Even the economy is absolutely fucked since you can't really be a merchant who buys low and sells high due to being unable to really explore the galaxy. Fuck this game.

>>387304113
No. Ask somewhere else again in 5 years, they are slowly improving it.

>>387304405
I would've been okay with this at launch though. At least it's a reason to put multiplayer in the advertising.

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>>387304470
You literally can though. I think you're just stupid.

>>387304113
its almost adequate
a bunch of annoying shit from launch is now less stupid
items stack
you can fly low and crash into things
you can shoot creatures on the ground with your spaceship and they die
crashed ship slot size is random its not just +/- 1
went from a 15 slot to a 28 slot

they havent fixed everything but its worth pirating now

>>387304470
>I pirated it, put in maybe 5 hours into it and made 3 jumps before realising that there's no way to change jump coordinates or jump back to previous systems.
There is though, maybe you just didn't have enough warp fuel or a good enough warp drive to make the jump.

You can jump to any system you can reach, as well as go back to previous systems.
With the latest update you can even warp your freighters, or if you manage to find one, use a portal to jump an infinite distance to any other portal you know the address of.

>>387304532
>>387304817
How? I had enough warp fuel to jump to the next system which was around 120 LY away but couldn't jump back to the previous system which was a mere 80ish LY away. The galaxy map just wouldn't let me, the prompt doesn't even appear.

>>387305041
There's different map settings I think. I haven't played since a few months after launch, but I think you have to go into freelook mode. The default plans a course for you.

>>387304497
But it's not at launch anymore, the damage has already been done

>>387305170
I'll give it another look then.

>>387304675
>went from a 15 slot to a 28 slot
I went from my starter to a 48 slotter which I think BUT, crashed ships also come with broken slots, so I gotta repair slots before I can use them, done a few, but I think its already to the point where I still got 20 slots locked and each one now takes about 170,000 to fix, plus a bunch of tech slots which are like 850,000 to fix each.

BUT, even with the couple of slots I have fixed, it means I've gone from the starter ship which has a value of like 200,000 to a ship that has a value of 25,000,000, so I can trade for a diff ship if I want.

No doubt they will have less slots overall, but they should have more avalible for me to use and will look a hell of a lot better.
My current one looks like it has 3 shipping containers strapped to each side of it, ugly as fuck.

>>387305041
pressing left/right on the dpad swaps targetting mode on the map, lets you switch between the atlas path, a path to a black hole(if near), custom waypoint and free cam I think.

>>387304113
Much much MUUUUCH better then it was, but still has the odd bit here and there that has stuck around since launch.

I'd probably be willing to recommend it now, just not to everyone.

Define good to you. What do you want to do in this game?

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>>387304113
did this last update make any changes to the creatures?
that feels like the last major point that was shown off in the trailers that's not in the game
there's never a real variety of them spawned in an area, and the very large creatures don't seem to exist

Can anyone post a pic of a large creature in this game that comes anywhere close to the giant snake or long neck from the trailers?
this snake is the biggest lie yet!

>>387304113
I picked it up this weekend Put about a dozen hours in so far.. It's alright. Making money seems to take a while, half an hour mining an entire mountain of gold just to make a few hundred thousand when things cost millions. But I assume there's better ways later.
Also the exploration part takes a bit too long for me. Even spamming the scan it takes a long time to find something to land at, and I wish you could fly faster in atmo. Half the shit you find is would be like a hour away just flying. So you've gotta leave the planet, obit, then reenter near the site to make decent time. That's not as fun as just flying along the ground dodging mountains and going under arches and shit. You also miss all the unmarked shit going up.


>>387305285
Wait, you also got a 48 slot crashed hauler on your starter planet?
Kick-ass, I've got mine up to 30 slots unlokced from the 12 it started with.

>>387305285
>so I can trade for a diff ship if I want.
that sounds like the best choice vs fixing a busted one

>>387307129
I havn't seen something like that, but I'm on a viridescent world right now and there's these weird giant dog/turtle hybrids that stand as tall as the observatory domes.

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>>387307236
the grind for money was worse when you had a much more limited inventory and items that didn't stack
you are lucky to have avoided the most frustrating part of this game

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Did this kind of shit exist in the original game?

>>387307236
I don't remember if it was on my starter planet or one of the planets near my starter one.

But yeah I got super lucky I found a 2-3 ships but didn't bother with them, then I landed to mind some gold, went to take off but ran out of fuel, walked to find plutonium and just saw it by complete accident.


>>387307309
Its not to bad cause any money you put into fixing a busted ships slots gets added to its value, so I could keep this one and be completely fine, but it is REAL ugly.

I wanna find a good looking ship with a decent amount of slots, then I guess I will try to find a nice planet to try and settle on.


>>387307129
The last update changed some of their algorithms, so creatures have been looking better.
I've even seen some quite big things, no world snakes though, doubt they are a thing still.

>>387307434
Which are the best planets to settle on?
a viridescent planet has been the nicest looking one I've seen so far, though I hear there are exotic planets now.

>>387307586
Either came in the last update or this one.
There are also exotic ships now which can look cool.

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>>387307586
those were from the pathfinder update in march

has anyone found a synthetic planet yet? I'm just waiting for one before I make my base

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>>387307664
>Which are the best planets to settle on?
I like ones with lots of big bodies of water and have some type of grass/flower everywhere
I don't like the barren rocky grounds

you could go for a planet with lots of expensive resources, but I choose aesthetics over function

>>387304113
Somone please tell me what to do. I'm bored to death.

Yesterday I found the first Atlas station and really thought "So this is where the game begins!" Then nothing happened.

having exosuit slots other than basic inventory is a patched in thing right?

>>387307829
Nope, only new thing I've seen was an exotic ship, I could get it, but it only had 18 slots I think.

>>387307973
Yeah, wanna find a nice grassy world, maybe with emeril deposits I can use till I get farming on the go, but I don't know ship about that, so gotta look shit up.

>>387307829
Wait, can you only have 1 base?

>>387308063
build a base

>>387308067
Yes, as of this new update. cargo slots stack things to higher numbers, tech is for tech.

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>>387308087
only one base and one freighter, which is like another base but in space

Why the fuck do we still need to use a signal booster 20 times to find everything?

Are there new planet environments?
I remember there only being about 6 or so different environments.

Did they ever make it so the progression isn't just bouncing from one ship to another that has exactly 1 more inventory slot than your current ship?

IIRC the only ships I ever discovered with significantly more inventory slots than mine were ludicrously, prohibitively expensive.

>>387308109
Are there habitable planets that don't cost life support or should I just look for one that's the least hostile?

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>>387308236
>Are there habitable planets that don't cost life support
absolutely
I believe the starter planet was patched to be extra hostile, so that's a bad choice
but you'll find some very chill places soon enough.

>>387308232
Yes, as said in this thread people have gone right from their starter ship to a max slot ship.

Crashed ships now have broken slots you need cash to fix, but they are still super good.

>>387308220
Some new ones have been put in this update, people have found synthetic planets, planets with bubbles that float through the air, ones with big crystal formations.

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APOLOGIZE

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>>387308232
>IIRC the only ships I ever discovered with significantly more inventory slots than mine were ludicrously, prohibitively expensive.
better ships will always be more expensive
but inventory in general has been improved all around
ships, suits, bases, vehicles, you have a lot more space plus items stacking making more room

>>387308220
a few extra types
plus an update to bioms that mixes planets up a bit so it's not all one environment for the entire world

>>387304312
Even if it did add everything he promised the game would still have tons of issues. Now, whether the hype was justified or not is another question, but the core of the game is still trash.

does upgrading the mining laser make it faster to harvest shit like gold that breaks instantly or is it only for things you have to focus fire to destroy? I don't want to spend 15 minutes breaking apart giant gold dicks anymore

>>387308530
>plus an update to bioms that mixes planets up a bit so it's not all one environment for the entire world

>>387308367
>people have found synthetic planets, planets with bubbles that float through the air, ones with big crystal formations.

That sounds pretty interesting, actually.
I'm mildly to wildly tempted to purchase the game now that it's going for 60% off, but I pirated and played it during week one with "mixed" results.

>>387304312
Gee, glowing balls that don't actually do anything sure revolutionized the game

Just a quick tip, if you got the terrain manipulator, its easier to break it and rebuild it then it is to charge it up again.

>>387308671
Its not perfect, there are still ugly planets, but now they do look better, like they are suppose to be ugly, not just they are ugly cause the algorithm fucked them.

>>387308530
>better ships will always be more expensive

obviously
I said "prohibitively" expensive, by which I meant that you'd have accumulated nowhere near enough money at the time of discovering said ship. To the point that in the time spent grinding enough resources to sell so you could afford the ship, you would've found enough crashed ships to progress you up to the level of the ship you were going to buy. Unless you abused the atlas stones, before that was patched.

Is there even a game like NMS playable right now to scratch that "space itch"?

>>387308778
>>387308530
>>387308367

Does the game still do that annoying thing where the planet you see from orbit can be entirely or completely fucking different from what the planet is actually like once it's rendered and you make land fall?

Because I always hated when it did that. I thought I'd find a water planet or a jungle world and it'd render when I got into low orbit and it just ISN'T.

I also heard you can crash your ship? What's that about? Literally my favorite part of the game was re-pairing ships.

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>>387308924
for flying in space, yes
but none have planets to explore that are anything close to interesting

>>387304113
Not yet. Ask again after two more of these giant updates and then it might be worth it though.

>>387304113
It is a highly unoptimized product, simply due to this fact no one should ever buy it.

>>387309024

I mean flying in space, being able to explore the stations, planets, shoot some stuff along the way.
I googled and there're literally none of the same casual accessibility/scale

>>387309063
I just don't think anyone should be supporting Hello Games. Nobody can do that in good conscience at this point.

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>>387304312
this is what sean promised, not even half is in the game after all these patches

>>387309254

At least they're working on it
If they keep up the pace NMS would be in playable state faster that Star Citizen

>>387309302
neither of these game will ever be playable, nms is a scam and always will be

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>>387308968
>>387308968
>I thought I'd find a water planet or a jungle world and it'd render when I got into low orbit and it just ISN'T.
did that happen often for you?
I don't remember anything that sounds as drastic as that
mostly just mountains and rocks being slow to render

>>387309107
if you just want flight and some space stations, elite dangerous is cool
especially with vr and a proper flight stick
obviously that isn't considered as accessible, but it's the only other real recommendation I have

>>387309117
>Nobody can do that in good conscience at this point.
the game is fun and is being updated and worked on still
they could've bailed and walked away from the game after it released, but didn't
don't over exaggerate

>>387308805
Like I said, I found a crashed ship with 48 slots and transfered to that right from my starter.

Most of the slots are broke, I've got about 28 regular slots unlocked abd about 2 of 8 tech slots.

I could keep this ship if I wanted, of because its already a pretty good ship its value is like 25mil, so I could trade it in for a ship with less slots overall but because I would be buying it, it may have more slots open to me.


>>387308924
Elite Dangerous I guess? but at this point NMS has more content then ED, but ED has the proper multiplayer, but if NMS fix theirs I dunno.

>>387308968
I feel like they've improved it a bit, like I've gone to a red planet that was more orange and yellows on the ground, but I've yet to hit any HUGE changes like when it first launched.

As for crashing your ship, not really, pre patch the game would always force you to like 100 meters above ground level, but thats changed that so you can actually fly pretty much right along the ground, this means you can fly through ravines and under over hangs.
You can damage your ship by ramming things but there is still a tiny bit of pull to stop you plowing into the ground.

There is also crashed freighters which might interest you, can't repair them though, just scavange them.

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I remember when Sean claimed that multiplayer was in the game but it would have been completely impossible for two players to meet in a QUINTILLION MILLION planets universe, only to be completely blown the fuck out a few days later by two players landing on the same spot but not being able to see each other because he lied out of his ass. Good times. I'm surprised he didn't just straight out drop the game from embarassment.

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>>387309405
>the game is fun and is being updated and worked on still
>don't over exaggerate
No, you know what? I don't care that the game is being worked on -now-. That's not the point. Accepting this kind of behavior, ESPECIALLY after such a widely publicized and catastrophic marketing & launch scandal, just teaches developers and publishers that it's okay to do this shit because people will still pay. You HAVE to draw the line somewhere if you want this shit to stop, and we all have to do it together or they won't care.

Go ahead and buy the game if you want, but remember that when it happens next time, and the next, and the next: you chose this. They said to you "I'm going to lie to you through my teeth and slack off for years and STILL under-deliver" and you replied, "Sure, that's fine. I want you to do that. Here's my money."

>>387309690
ok

>>387309690

What if I bought it after they updated it during 70% sale?

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>>387309856
not good enough
don't give them any money

>>387309976

It was a russian store too
Like 10 bucks i think
Surelly NMS is worth $10?

>>387304113
The survival mode is brutal as shit. Just tried it out again. In the original difficulty on launch I had maxed out multitool and ship. But it seems that they really did improve it. I still haven't repaired my ship on survival. Hard to find materials to survive.

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>>387310116
I've been wanting to go for the permadeath trophy, but I don't think I have what it takes

>>387308159
What happens if I want a base on a diff planet? Do I have to destroy my old one first? Or is it permanent once placed?

>>387310298
Honestly permadeath would be insane. But survival is already hard, I don't know how to survive to get to my ship. My only strat would be to reload constantly until you find heridium/titanium close to you.

>>387308236
> don't cost life support
No. There's lots that don't cause hazard damage. But even on the nicest planets your life support will drain slowly even standing still.

>>387310329
You can change place.
I don't remember what happens though, I think all the resources at your old base go into a locker at your new one, or something like that... maybe...

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>>387310329
the first base will be removed

The only things the game really needs now is true multiplayer and more enemy variety. 4 different robots isn't enough. They fixed space being boring as fuck now it's just finishing land.

>>387304113
I think the updates are actually "good" but if you don´t mind waiting come back in 2-3 updates.

They are def. slowly making the game "ok".

>>387310371

Took me 5 hours to repair ship yesterday. It was on a planet with acid rain too, so I had to constantly look for shalter to restore suit

The floating glowing balls to represent other players is at least a real time thing. That means they have been working at it enough to make a purely singleplayer game actually have multiplayer elements, so it is possible for them to include true player models and interactions in the future. Props to them for supporting it the entire time.

At that point we can truly say they achieved what they originally promised and that it is an okay game.

>>387310658
Honestly I don't think I can play the game anymore even though it's improved. I was really pissed on release at the ending of the game. Really left a sour taste in my mouth.

>>387308629
>giant gold dicks
Do they also serve as keys to turn on a giant tractor beam to pull an asteroid down to the planet?

>>387310420
>>387310440
Thanks. I don't care about possible wasted resources. Just don't want to fuck myself by building one now, only to find a better place 40 hours later or whatever.

You can have BOTH a ground base and a Freighter base right?

>>387304113
NMS is broken at the very core and no amount of extra crap grafted on can fix that.

>>387310934
Its got voice chat, and when looking up info cause I haven't played in so long I saw someone post where their resource farm was so I'm assuming others can even interact with your base.

If so thats means its already got everything it needs besides player model and showing other players ships.
Thats not so much work, I think full proper multiplayer will be in the next big update, so before the end of the year.

>>387311187
Yes about bases/freighters, freighters can even hold multiple ships so you can own more then 1 ship.

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>>387305202
>being this much of an autist

It's a game. Play it and have fun or don't play it and miss out on it.

What is this game anyway? I read about the trainwreck of a release it had but

Does it have any gameplay now?

The fuck is up with the balancing? I just picked this up and started on survival. On my second planet, and I couldn't find any plutonium to power my ship to get the fuck out. Add to the fact that its extreme heat and my meter doesn't even last a minute so I have to constantly race to find more zinc or be stuck near my ship to replenish it.

Like, who even thought this was ok? You have to frantically find resources just to stay alive because you have so many meters to keep up, leaving you with no time to farm for different resources to make money or leave the planet. What a mess.

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>>387312348
>survival
that is not the default setting
it's balanced to be much more difficult
it's manageable if you know what you are doing, but you shouldn't have chosen that as a newcomer if you didn't want the struggle

it was hyped up as the hot shit to end all the hot shits (which, guess fucking what, it's not) and they let that doped up hippie speak his mind to say all kinds of astoundingly horseshit claims
I only picked up the game when the last update came about a week ago or so, so I can't talk about its state at release, but I find it pretty enjoyable
it's a nice niche space exploration game, not everyone cup of tea for sure, but for some obscure reason marketed towards everyone and their mother
something went horribly wrong during developing/marketing/publishing that's for sure, but the game as it is now is playable and you can have some good time from it
the thing I personally like the most is that it feels a lot like some older game, like late 80s older, in its gameplay, only made with modern technology, graphics may not be the latest wonder but it can offer some serious eye candy
but, alas, after tortanic anything bad on release will be bad forever, amirite fellow nofuns?

anyway, the game has a gog release, so pirate it and see for yourself
>>387312348
and also don't pick survival on your first playthrough, jesus

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This game is pretty comfy desu. Played it back when it first came out but felt pretty bare bones, now it actually seems more properly fleshed out though still just getting started. Found a crashed 41 slot ship that looks pretty nice on my starting planet and it's nice that I can essentially expand on it as I make more rather than having to save up and then hope to find a ship that I like.

asking again
any way to fix the LSD/smearing screen glitch with AMD cards?or i'm fucked forever?I don't want to roll back with drivers

>>387307129
>I want each planet to feel unique and things to be rare experiences

cannot exist with

>someone post a pic of something like this animal

There's billions of planets. Maybe large snake worlds are kinda rare.

Is it still just sort of a resource collection game? That isn't really a huge problem, but when EVERY planet had a huge chunk, it made it not feel like a universe anymore. So are the planets still very copy-pasted? Where you can travel in a 10 sq mile patch and see everything that planet has to offer? Are some planets actually desolate? Do all planets still have intelligent life?

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>>387313548
>There's billions of planets. Maybe large snake worlds are kinda rare.
there's 0 evidence of any large scale creature after a year of the game being out
they don't exist

>>387313654
>Are some planets actually desolate?
some are
this was in the game at launch even

>>387304113
Nope. And I don't even see the chance of saving it.
>PC interface that was adapted for consoles then ported back to PC
Hold E to do shit all the day.
>incredibly annoying and distracting milestone notification
can skip them now, but the damage is done. It's just baffling that Sean thought these view blocking shits are this important. You walked 500 miles, LOOK HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS.
>the way your multi-tool operates
Auto holstering, overheating, eye-raping lazors and sounds.
>inventory
Upgrades take inventory space. To increase it you have to find randomly spawned locations and pay money. One slot at the time. The way items stack is bad, but nice thought that you can stack more shit in your ship's inventory. And it took them a year to implement separate upgrade and item specific slots.
Your life support constantly runs out of juice, your enviro-protection constantly runs out of juice, so is your weapon and your ship. It make NMS more dull than your average cash-grab f2p mmo game.
>your space ship
It's been a fucking year and they finally removed handholding flight assist. Take off engines constantly run out of fuel, unskipable automatic landing/take off animations. Ship cannot be upgraded or customized in any way, only replaced with something else - bought for a fuckton from random NPCs or found in the wilderness, but then you'll have to pay to repair it. And ships you meet on your way are all randomly generated, so might find a fuckhuge hauler with less inventory slots than your tiny ass fighter. Something like a shipbuilder would help this game a lot.
>planets
Boring, lifeless and uninteresting. Ugly for the most part too. Difference between is minimal, for the most part it's just color palette. Few random creatures will make your chuckle, but fauna is pretty much irrelevant.

>>387312569
>>387313049
I wanted the struggle, I love high difficulty, but this is just poorly balanced.

I shelved my survival save to see the difference in normal mode, and it is ridiculous. Zero threat from anything, it leaves the game feeling too easy and boring.

In survival, it takes 200 plutonium to launch your ship, meaning you can't just fly around as you please, you have to carry everything you need on your person. Your vitals drip away rapidly, leaving you with little time to explore. And to make matters worse your scanner is often on cooldown longer than your vitals last, making finding resources even harder.

They've stacked on too many things and at such a high level it totally fucks the balance. Lower the scanner cooldown to how it is in normal mode. Increase how long your vitals last, enough to where its a constant threat, but isn't so overbearing that you have no time to collect non vital replenishing resources. And reduce the ships launch cost to 100 plutonium, thats double what it is in normal.

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>>387314446
all that is manageable

>>387310116
Brought this shit yesterday, booted up Survival thinking it was the basic mode and "Normal" was like easy. Took me around 4 hours to get off the first planet.

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>>387314797
>booted up Survival thinking it was the basic mode and "Normal" was like easy.
have you never played a video game before
how would you not assume "normal" is the default standard setting

>>387314227
cont.
Now, all that fluff added in new patches and so heavily advertised, is simply beyond my reach. I played this game about 3 times now: at launch, sometime between 1.1 and 1.2 and now and every time I drop it after few hours, without reaching any of that new content or anything interesting that could possible make play it more. I just can't stomach this game for how dull it is and I'm still playing Warframe (since close beta), so you might imagine that my brain is accustomed to something monotone and dull, but NMS takes the cake. I played Terraria and Starbound, but these are fucking action-games compared to NMS. Played a bit of Minecraft (some early version) and although dull, it was not as bad as NMS.
I feel like there is not a single aspect of NMS that isn't wrong in some way. The only thing that I can say "That's good." about is the fact that player character has to learn alien languages. And even that I soiled by one word at the time.
NMS is beyond repair I think. I very much regret spending time on it. And SSD space.

Memba that article from few days ago, about first-person shooters making players dumber? Well they should've tried NMS, I bet it can deal a lot more damage in less playtime.

Is the game still 90% mining stuff to power your suit and drill?

It actually is

>>387313430
>LSD/smearing screen glitch with AMD cards

I have an AMD card and I'm not sure if I didn't experience this or I did and thought it was a feature lmao
any screens?

>beat the game a month after launch
>have nicest things
>play now and my stuff is class c
>find class b and a ships, but none have 48 slots
The fuck? Even my multitool is shit now after farming for max.

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>>387311016

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>>387304113
Ever licked an edding? it's about this much fun.

>>387313430
I don't have that. I've just got fucked textures on large deposits when I scan them.
290x

GUYS IS IT WORTH $20 OR NOT
I STILL DONT KNOW WHAT TO THINK
WHY DONT THEY HAVE DEMOS

Been playing the update. Been doing the artemis story line. It feels like it gives the game purpose and the portal arc is neat. I found a planet filled with bubbles last night. Just floating everywhere. It was kind of neat

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>>387315727
They do have demos in a way.
It's on GoG after all.

I do not find it's worth $20 personally. Lots of good concepts,
but terrible execution of them.

can I run this on a toaster

>>387315629
But you didn't answer my question. Does it also serve as a key to turn on the Preparation H "tractor beam".

>>387315805
just kill the fucker

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>>387315298
>>387315719
Got this from Steam forums,it's the best example i could find

>play game on free explore mode
>still lets you do the story mode with no grinding

Its ok

I really want the game but I don't want to cuck my Steam. Is there someplace else I should get it?

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>>387315961
creative mode?
I thought that was confirmed to turn off the story

>>387313679
There's 0 evidence there's a large snake on 'her' but we all know there is.

i really like the game now. extremely comfy. have it on ps4 and the framerate is a bit meh, but still really good game. wish my pc could run it okay
>>387315879
lol no
>>387315963
it is on gog
>>387315727
pirate it and try it out. buy based on that.

>>387316082
Well maybe it was but i played it for about 4 hours yesterday and it definitely let me do the story mode. Maybe they messed up?

Did you kill or save artemis?

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>>387315958
Christ, this is the one I have. Shows up on scan instead of the little chemical symbol.

>>387315727
I'd say yeah

>>387313548
The procedural generation of creatures isn't that diverse. You'd already know if there was any giant snake in the game.

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>>387316285
another one
it's a fucking mess

>>387316953
That's a feature

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>>387317121

>>387317121
Only if it's documented.

>>387315727
Pirate it and find out
I personally enjoy it now, but it really isnt for everyone

>>387316953
Eh, mine is fine. Yours is unplayable though. This only a problem with noman sky? All other games work fine? If so, then just roll back drivers.

>>387304113
bought it when it was like 20$
have sunken 15 hrs into it
its pretty comfy and relaxing

>>387304113
No Mario's Sky is way better.

Seriously that actually exists it alright.

>>387317240
their are always two, a master and the apprentice