why are nips so bad at making crawlers

>>387269051
>requires a soul
What did he mean by this?
Was it Kino?
Is this Ludo?

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>>387269281
>Is this Ludo?
here is the ludo my friend

That pic is retarded.

If he was a real autist, he would have used numbers instead of arrows, which is far more efficient.

>>387269051
>game requires some thought and spatial awareness
>legal retard goes haywire and blames the entire country for his shortcomings
literally git gud

>>387269403
So you want extremely simple dungeons so you don't get lost. I've never seen a retard parade his condition so proudly as you.

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>>387269683
>make a map bad on purpose
>lele its goood design because its annoying, its hardcore! really make me think!
baka nigga

>>387269807
>so you don't get lost
>lost
>can see position on the map at all times in both games
what are you trying to say

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>>387269403
This is not even complicated map design. Every single map here is fairly simple by itself.

>>387269051
Japanese people only make games that matter, not shitty irrelevant pieces of shit that no one cares about. Fuck off

>>387270074
this looks like something from wizardry 1-4

Guys wait.
This thread is all bait and no fish.

>>387269998
Complicated things confuse you because you're dumb.

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>>387270134
>games that matter
>main series got sidelined for a spinoff series where you can date school children

>>387270280
But it's not complicated. It's trial and error. It's the very definition of artificial difficulty.

>>387270367
>It's trial and error.
Exploration is an inherent part of dungeon crawlers, don't be sad.

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>>387270445
>exploration
>just put portals everywhere to make the area seem longer
so this is the pinnacle of nipponese game design

>>387270282
>main series got sidelined
What does that even mean? It's under active development.

>>387270239
>get btfo
>n-no, its bait, muh anime!

>>387270621
And exactly how is this bad design? You're angry because you can't figure it out, not because there's anything wrong with that map.

>>387270717
>You're angry because you can't figure it out
what is there to figure out? what part of that map requires critical thinking to solve? please explain.

>>387270872
Going through the portals and remembering where they go. It's not even that hard. Are you always upset when something confuses you?

>>387270184
That one is from Wizardry 4. I knew from the moment I looked at it, that was the map I stopped playing on. The entire game was designed by a madman who wanted every player that played to suffer.

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>>387271234
>Going through the portals and remembering where they go
Anon, that is a 'puzzle' for an 8 year old, which is fitting because it's on a handheld for 8 year olds.

Look at >>387270074, it's not even good for a bullshit difficulty map. There is not a single area of design it excels in. You've said it yourself.
>It's not even that hard

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>>387269969
maraudon or sunken temple is worse
maraudon is less of a clusterfuck once you're actually in but holy shit is the entrance to the two halves cancer to navigate through, especially considering all the elites outside too

>>387271587
>Anon, that is a 'puzzle' for an 8 year old
Did it also frustrate you?
> it's not even good for a bullshit difficulty map.
It's not bullshit difficulty because you couldn't figure it out. You want plain, straightforward maps because anything requiring a bit of concentration seems to baffle you.
I guess it's easier to just blame the entire country it came from, like a child.

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>>387271847
>because you couldn't figure it out
I did figure it out. It's bullshit difficulty because everything about its design is artificial. You're just throwing yourself into portals until you find the right ones. Its an extremely lazy way to make a map, its on par with something someone would throw together in a map editor.

>>387272435
its a dungeon that rewards players who can quickly put together a right ways map through teleporters by not keeping them there forever, thats why there are poison and sleep tiles. its also lenient enough to make it so that people can "luck" through it by choosing the right path by accident. whats so difficult about it?

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>>387272435
same senpai, how the fuck was I suppose to figure this out? I just basically fucking mashed all the combinations til I got through.

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>>387271847
>I guess it's easier to just blame the entire country it came from
but anon, literally every nip crawler has shitty maps like this. This kind of design is just completely retarded. They totally missed the point.

>>387272621
>its a dungeon that rewards players who can quickly put together a right ways map through teleporters by not keeping them there forever
but anon, nobody except for retarded weebs are going to forget which portal is the right one and whether or not you pick the right one on your first try is complete chance

>>387272621
>whats so difficult about it?
Nobody is saying it is actually difficult.

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Super deep western dungeon designs

>a-at least its all connected and i won't get lost

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>>387273765
anon, that is not even the same sub genre

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>>387269051
>why are nips so bad at making craw

>>387274301
lers

>>387269607
This

Eridanus is probably the best designed map in SJ. Grus and Hologorium are genuine examples of bad map design. They're not even complex or difficult, just insanely fucking tedious. Eridanus was fun and satisfying to explore. The entire teleporter maze can be solved by a scrap of paper with a few numbers on it.

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>best Wizardry game is japanese

How can sapes deal with this?

>>387269051
Only fucking idiots had a problem with this map.

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>>387274301
From doesn't count. They are special.

>>387274879
Yeah, that is the problem. Weeb crawlers just have shitty maps that act as a dressing for the combat, which is also bad.

>>387273003
>shitty maps like this.
Again, you're immediately assuming they're shitty maps because you dislike the challenge, not because there's anything wrong with them. You literally came here to cry about those mean nip devs because they tried to make you use your brain, posting a ridiculously simple set of maps as a better alternative.

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>>387275207

>>387274534
I don't think you even know what bothers you about them anymore.

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>>387275306

>>387274980
Part of the point of dungeon crawlers is map exploration and this has to be challenging outside of combat. If you want a fucking straight line, go play a drag racing game.

>>387274980
>shitty, shitty, shitty
Why, what's wrong with them? You seem to think "shitty" is a good description of what is wrong with the map.

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>>387275406

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>>387275480

>>387269607
Ah childhood...

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>>387275567

>>387275480
Why is it called the forest of doubt?

>>387275672
>>387275567
>>387275480
These look like EO4.

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god tier map comin thru

>>387269051
>10 different exits lead to the same entry
What a meme

>>387275306
>>387275406
>>387275480
>>387275567
>>387275672
arcana is a bad game
>>387275471
this maps are extremely bloated and simple, there is nothing to weeb crawlers out side of combat. Western crawlers from the era when they peaked were full of secrets and puzzles and NPCs and shits. The jap stuff just has no creativity to it. It's all a callback to the wizardry 1-3 era when things were fairly new and no one had any idea how to take things to a higher level of detail.

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>>387269051
>He can't handle Eridanus
Hope I'm jumping the gun with this assumption.
I'd argue that any good design is usually with DRPGs since they love wizardry so much. Or increasing casualisation with Japan. Shit usually is just simple half the time in third person exploration or action rpgs, becoming straight lines than anything with challenge or thought

Pure dungeon crawlers are for faggots anyway,give me a roguelike or any other genre that has dungeons but its not just about endless dungeon crawling

>>387276345
>there is nothing to weeb crawlers out side of combat

So you mean the fun part of the game? You posted maps from a JRPG and pretended that its a traditional dungeon crawler.

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Where the hell is the hypercube dnd map, I know one of you has it.

>>387276559
>So you mean the fun part of the game?
The combat is an exponentially shittier version of what it copies.

>>387271234
Yeah it isn't hard, it is a waste of time. All you do is memorize which teleporter spits you out where. Then the only way to know where they go is to actually go through them then you are put somewhere that doesn't make you progress so you have to go back to another teleporter so you can hopefully stop wasting your time on walking back to find the correct teleporter. This isn't a devious trap, This isn't an interesting puzzle. This just makes me walk back to the same area more until I know where everything goes.

>>387276674
>Yeah it isn't hard, it is a waste of time.
Video games are a waste of time. There clearly was something that bothered you about that map, but you keep dancing around the subject. My guess is that you couldn't figure it out.

>>387276780
That was the first time I posted in this thread.

>>387276832
4chan X marks new IPs. Also, pretending to be different people is not an argument.

>>387276780
>There clearly was something that bothered you about that map
I think you desperately want this to be true because the alternative is that you are retarded.

>>387274534
>grus is bad meme
Was it really?

>>387276598
Hypercube?

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>>387276951
>tfw weebs are so mindfucked they are screeching at people accusing them of being me

>>387276951
Then you better update your 4chanX.

>>387277032
/tg/ autism

>>387277065
>tfw weebs are so mindfucked
Are you here to discuss games or to cry for attention?
>>387276963
No, the alternative is that you have no argument. You can't even elaborate on why this is bad level design.

>>387277131
I want to see this map too, is DND even fun?

>>387276559
Nigga (proper) roguelikes *are* endless dungeon crawling.
Blobbers usually have quests, puzzles, NPCs.

>>387277149
>You can't even elaborate on why this is bad level design.
Nah, it has already been explained.

>>387277323
>it's a shitty map
That's not "explaining",

>>387270445
>exploration
Hardly. All you do is go into near identical areas with almost no distinguishing features if any.
that's a bad map, but it isn't because the game designer is a jap. It's because he is retarded.

>>387277379
>>387276345

>>387277405
>It's bad because it's retarded.
That's great, anon.

>>387277379
It has been explained you fucking dumb ass. It is a waste of time. It isn't challenging or fun to connect the dots of this teleporter puts me at this location and that being the gimmick of that entire level. All it does it make me go traverse through the same areas over and over again until I get the right teleporter after charting the other ones. Then in this thread people are harping that dungeons crawlers are great because they usually facilitate map exploration.

I am exploring jack shit with teleporter mazes with constantly going back to areas I have been before since I don't know where this teleporter will take me to until I actually go into it.

>>387276345
But so does the game in the OP, secret areas for NPCs for side missions, the image is literally just one area of a dungeon.

>>387273987
That's a boss floor and FOE puzzle first and foremost, anon.

>>387277710
>But so does the game in the OP
That's because SMT is the only good japanese grid crawler, but I wanted to be a nice guy and at least post a redeemable game instead of just straight up ripping on something completely awful like EO. However, it does fall short of western crawlers and it is not the same. Also, that particular map is really fucking dumb.

>>387276110
>Use a fucking guide: The map
I hate glast heim and clock tower so much

>>387277467
>reading comprehension

>>387277918
What's wrong with EO? Haven't played it myself.

>>387277631
>It is a waste of time.
It's a video game.
>It isn't challenging or fun
It's just a map, it's not supposed to be challenging by itself, the random encounters provide the challenge. None of the map designs you posted before are challenging at all.
I'd argue that it is fun, but that's just you opinion.
>All it does it make me go traverse through the same areas over and over
Sure, if you can't even keep up with what's happening, or which portal leads where. You're pretty much proving that the only thing bothering you here is your inability to go through it.
So, I guess it took you this long to just admit that you didn't like it because it kicked your dumb ass.

>>387278208
Not that anon, but I've always thought the crawling in EO was fine. The combat is supposed to be the hard part of the game, not the mapping, and even then the 6th stratum usually fulfills both requirements.
>mfw remembering mapping EO 1 Claret Hollows

>>387269051
Looks like an incredibly toned down version of Stratum 6 in any of the Etrian games.

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Hello.

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HA! Found it, fuck you all I win

>>387278548
The only downside of this game is fucking Mem Aleph's difficulty spike, I had to grind for that cunt.

>>387278208
It's about retarded as it gets. Lackluster maps, dumb combat with stupid shit like a super move bar, barebones fetch quests. It's just Mindless Grinding: The Game.

>>387269051
wait is this for real? The map is so convoluted its connections can only be explained as teleports because it wouldn't make any physical sense otherwise? and im assuming this is a 2d game?

wtf even is that?

>>387278614
You could always cheese it and use the codes for broken demons if you want.

>>387278693
>It's just Mindless Grinding: The Game.
>he needs to grind to beat EO
Spotted the shitter.

>>387278693
>dumb combat with stupid shit like a super move bar

God forbid that the combat is not just click on sword repeat like every western dungeon crawler ever made right?

>>387278757
The whole game is a grind.

>>387278739
>using codes
Would be nice if I had the internet back then. Still, I'm glad that SJ and EO1 beat the casual out of my ~12 year old ass back then.

>>387278842
Go play Wizardry 6-8.

>>387278848
By that logic, all games are a grind. This is still technically a place for VIDEOGAMES, why do you come here if you hate them?

>>387278212
>It's a video game.
And a video game is suppose to be entertaining and teleporter mazes sure aren't it.
>It's just a map, it's not supposed to be challenging by itself, the random encounters provide the challenge.
Nothing like puzzles or actual traps you have to be aware of that can harm your party out of combat?
>None of the map designs you posted before are challenging at all.
I haven't posted an image in this thread. Are you mentally sound? Probably not for defending teleporter mazes.
>Sure, if you can't even keep up with what's happening, or which portal leads where.You're pretty much proving that the only thing bothering you here is your inability to go through it.
Are you illiterate? It is impossible to know when you will get teleported because it gives no indication until you hit your first teleport. Then you don't know where any of the teleporters go to because you have never been to them or haven't charted them yet because you haven't scrubbed the sides of the room. It is as simple as connecting the dots which I mentioned previously. It is the most basic and brain dead "puzzle" that constantly dumps you in previous areas you've been to because you have no clue where these teleporters will put you if you didn't try it nor know you are about to walk on one and into a teleporter maze.

>>387277182
see>>387278608

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What does /v/ think of Shining in the Darkness?

>>387269969
Man I miss that shit. I remember going on 15 man dungeon runs of BRD at launch. Party would essentially split up to clear shit out and rejoin at certain parts.

It felt like a real city with purpose, history and function to the areas. Now in your average WoW dungeon it's like a loot carousel ride.

>>387278848
This isn't even an argument, anon, it's a complaint, and an incorrect one at that.

>>387278693
>super move bar

What's wrong with super move bars?

>>387278724
Yes anon, it's just a teleporter maze.

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>No EO thread
Eh, mind as well post here
Just got the Imperial class, how do i rotato potato? cant time my charge edge for shit

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>>387279471
>EO's fanbase is so fucking dumb the developers have to actively encourage them to fully explore areas
Thanks for reminding me of this. I remember when I encountered it I was so surprised there was actually something like this in the game and thought I was just having some sort of fever dream so I didn't want to bring it up.

>>387279471
Just pasting the normal list, also sub in Runie
Drive
Sharp
Cool
Charge
Drive
Ignition
Drive
Drive
Drive
Ignition is really the key skill in an FOE battle or boss fight, since it's your prime damage rush but is unable to be used until a certain point.
>>387279664
>wow a game has a tutorial in the very beginning, in the volume specifically designed for newcomers to the genre that is the easiest in the entire series
gee

>>387280218
>wow a game has a tutorial
Yeah, wow. Why the fuck does a crawler have an in-game tutorial? It's almost like EO was designed for children.

>>387279004
>And a video game is suppose to be entertaining and teleporter mazes sure aren't it.
They aren't entertaining when you're furious about going around in circles because your stupid ass can't connect the dots. Just admit that you're too stupid for this sort of subversion and just want to go from point A to B without interruptions.

>>387280418
Conveniently left out
>in the volume specifically designed for newcomers to the genre that is the easiest in the entire series

>>387280754
>actually defending it

>>387281694
>actually buttmad about something that doesn't impact the gameplay at all

>>387281694
What is there to defend? A single brief prompt at the beginning of the game?

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>>387281790
>>387281914
STILL DEFENDING IT

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>>387282472
Nothing there to defend.

>>387282472
Was it autism?

Why are japs so bad at multiplayer games - they can't compete?

Weebs are btfo!~