Which is the most powerful class in this game?

>>387189150
The disconnect button

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>>387189150

Among /v/ shitters? - Probably Sniper/Soldier

Among people who actually engage in high level play (6v6s etc)? - Scout

>>387189203
fpbp

>>387189212
The best possible sniper will absolutely destroy the opposing team, and he doesn't need to be 2 feet away like scout does.

>>387189342

>the best possible sniper

Hypothetical's don't always correlate into actuality.

There's a reason nobody gives 2 shits about a Sniper on 6v6s and the meta almost never includes them.

Soldier/Scout and a Medic is literally all you need in any one situation.

>>387189150
Medic

Is this game worth playing in 2k17?

>>387189150
Medic for winning games
Scout for winning engagements

How long does sniper need to aim with default to get full power headshots?

Because some asshole host on a server was literally quickscoping me as scout running in circles.

>>387191008
scouts die to low charge headshots

>>387191008

Are aimbots still prevalent in this game? Because I'm not lying when I said this nigger would immediately turn and face me the exact moment I left spawn from across the map, zoom in and headshot me with at least 70% accuracy while I am zigzaging 100 yards away

>>387189150
The most important class is medic.
The most powerful class is soldier in most aituations.
The scout ia thr most powerful in 1 v 1

>>387191008
It takes a whule to get the fullcharge but he doesnt need it to one hit kill most classes with headshots, especially uf he is using something like the machina.

>>387190771
eh not really, valve milked it to shit and there's too many goddamn cosmetics bloating out the game

>>387189150
Scout can deal like 600 damage in like 5 seconds
That+mobility=unstoppable

>>387191337
ban wave cant come soon enough, need some traitor to link the source code of their 20$ minecraft hacks

>>387191008
Scout dies to uncharged headshots

>>387189562
They can stomp down all your pubers and stop caps.

>>387191337
also its harder to tell but some scouts use it on their main account because you know, cant really tell if the meatshot is legit or not

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heavy and pyro are usually the best class for total shitters
scout and soldier/demo are the best class for actually good players, webm related

>>387191823
That said, demo is the best class, but you can destroy a pub with any class as low grade as ugc silver highlander

>>387190771
A lot of good community servers are dead now and the matchmaking system is mediocre/shit. The occasional pubstomping however never gets old for me desu.

medic > scout > soldier > demo

>>387189212
>I've only ever played 6s in valves official matchmaking

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>>387191739
>unstoppable
hes 125 hp (dead in 2 rockets), and that "600 damage" is pretty much pushing your character model against an enemy wich is something only retards do.
>>387191940
this
you can pretty much pound with any class, but pubbers only cry about soldiers and demos because they are the ones they have the hardest time understanding due to prediction i guess. also playing demo properly is "sticky spamming" for some reason

God Tier: Scout, Sniper, Medic
DM Tier: Soldier
Spam Tier: Demoman
I'm here to fill Tier: Heavy, Pyro
We need to defend our last Tier: Engineer
I'm gonna get a pick real quick Tier: Spy

>>387192201
>Scout is not dm
on what basis?

anyone unironically saying sniper has obviously never played 6s outside of valves dumpster fire matchmaking

>>387192250
He's beyond that. Motherfucker can do whatever he wants on high level.

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>>387189150
>Ubersaw is beyond good and never gets touched by patches
>Crossbow gets buffed into oblivion and becomes essential
>Can increase speed when healing a scout now
Can anyone stop him?

did the pyro update come out yet?

>>387192354
and a soldier with proper health management and model control can't?

I understand valve making an official 6s matchmaking was necessary for the game to stay alive after so long, but holy fuck has it brought all the fucking shitters out of the wordwork that think they know about high level comp tf2 just because they're max rank in it

>>387192354
thats exactly what DM means

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R8 my mains

Fucking hate soldier players telling me I play easy classes

Tier 1: Medic
Tier 2: Scout, Soldier, Demoman
Tier 3: Sniper
Tier 4: Engineer, Heavy
Tier 5: Pyro, Spy
competitive-wise. anyway.

>>387192703
this is the only correct answer

>>387192650
high im pocket here

scout has the third highest skill ceiling in the game, anyone telling you it's easy is a pub shitter

engie is fucking easy

top level medic is mechanically easy but the brain power required is insane, not to mention rocket surfing and crossbow aim, medic has a much higher skill ceiling than people want to think

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Why were maps like ctf_well and ctf_sawmill dropped from Valve servers after MyM?

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>>387192650
you're ok
just ditch the engi

i type like this so people know i'm pro

>>387193160
>literally every kill is a crit
pyro mains in charge of """"skill""""

Favorite weapon that's underused or underappreciated

Vaccinator for me

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>>387193160
nope

>>387193414
reserve shooter as soldier

i main heavy pyro and demoknight

i'm useless at spy, sniper and engie any other character i'm average or better at. how aids am I

>>387193414
for me its quickie-bomb launcher
vaccinator can be really good in comp since you can just use projectile protection for the most part and switch to bullet protection from time to time, its really annoying fighting against it
>>387193395
that clip is from like 2013 or so long before the pyro nerfs

TF2 should be 10 v 10, with a cap of 2 of any class.

>>387193686

Yeah I have heard that vaccinator is apparently really good in comp, I can certainly see why, I just don't see it very often in my normal playing of TF2. Most people I do run into using it don't use it very well either.

Medic>Demoman>Sniper>Scout>Soldier>Heavy>Engineer>Spy>Pyro

This applies to highlander and 6s but not pubs.

>>387192087
>also playing demo properly is "sticky spamming" for some reason
demo is countered by good scouts and soldiers who jump in his face rendering his stickies useless, pub players do not know how to play these classes

>>387193581
absolute shitter

>>387194090
pub players will jump into the stickies and die and start whining. most dont even know you can shoot the stickies to remove them.
pub demos are completely clueless to how useful stickies are or how to use them, wich is why you see them exclusively using pipes and a shield for the most part.
i dont want to sound cocky or anything but if people weren't so shit i would actually enjoy pubs.
>>387193774
>class limit
i doubt most pubbers would like that. many community servers used to have that 2 classlimit on sniper for example wich is really nice.

The dog with rockets that was planned to be in the game.

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>>387193581
do you play with a gamepad or a laptop touchpad
please tell me you have less than 100 hours

>>387189203
EPIC!!!! XD

I don't main anyone because all the mercs are best merc.

Soldier and Scout because versality and good-all-around wins games

Sniper if your aim is godly

>>387193414
Fucking love the vaccinator.

>>387194602
http://guarddog 50webs com/

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>>387196353
>uses two triple shooting cannons
>small rockets to help the Guard Dog
now where have i heard that before...

>>387196291

My nigga, most fun and exciting to use medigun.

>>387196353
Sweet Christ anon, thanks for reminding me. I forgot how stupid and over powered this was.

Soldier with black box and the conqueror

>>387194631
You seem upset

connect 72.5.102.111:27015;password vidya
do it.

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>>387192518
>not using the better saw

>>387197103
The vitasaw's really fucking good but I forget its existence because it's not on the whitelist

>>387197030
party van is shit

>The only medic is the 10th soldier's girlfriend

God damn it.

Scout, Soldier and Demoman. Everything else is SHIT. SHIIIIIIIIIT. Those are the 3 power plays throughout the whole game.

Personally I play Scout

>>387193056
Sawmill wasn't dropped though

>>387196859
Indeed, and it's even not even terrible to learn and master either. Just gotta practice and use it plenty and you'll be a-ok with a nice pocket

>>387191008
scoped shots with no charge deal 150 damage baseline. scout has 125 hp unbuffed. a fully charged headshot deals 450 damage

that's why

>>387197238
>playing shitlander

>>387193414
Candy cane

>>387193414
stock

>>387197448
I don't though, I play 6s.

>>387197378
I've only seen KofT Sawmill.

>>387197380

Yeah, it's not incredibly hard to learn, but I feel it does have a higher skill ceiling than the other mediguns. Yeah, to really excel with it you not only need to be good at using it, you need someone else to heal who knows how to take advantage of it, the charges don't last long so to really make the most out of them you've gotta kill an enemy quickly.

>>387193581
shitter

Do you think that Air blast jumping on the pyro himself would be a good buff to his mobility?

>>387197732
pyro should exclusively be removed from the game

pointless class

>>387197732
>double jump for pyro
no

>>387197732
If it's anything like detonator jumping probably not. If it's more like rocket and stickyjumping then that's absurd.

>>387197732
doesn't pyro have that detonator to do that anyway

>>387197798
>>387197732
there's detonatorjumping ala rocketjump

>>387197952
>>387197953
>>387197986
You know what, I forgot the detonator exists.

But seriously, that and the power jack are the only mobility items on what is supposed to be a flanking class. I feel any other way to get the pyro to front lines quicker or into a better spot to ambush is better. I picked air blasting because all the regular pyro plays are now built around that function.

>>387192536
They cancelled it.

>>387198461
Oh good

>>387189150
Sniper - infinite ceiling, very high floor
Spy - very high ceiling, very high floor
Scout - very high ceiling, fairly low floor (depends enormously on level of play whether it will be effective, though)
Demoman - very high ceiling, very low floor
Solder - very high ceiling, lowest floor in game (depends on level of play, but not significantly)
Medic - not a real class (player keystone), very high ceiling and moderately high floor
Heavy/Pyro/Engineer - basically novelty/wildcard classes

>>387193507
This

Pyro

>>387199682
lol

>>387193581
Why would you ever play demoknight? You are always going to be a free kill especially if you use the chargin targe.

>>387199747
what

>>387199957
pyro is the weakest class in the entire game and if you have trouble killing a pyro, any pyro you are a pure shitter

>>387200050
stop

It's weird going back to this game after playing so many games with max players toned down to around 6.

>>387200147
stop being shit at a 10 year old game you absolute bad

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This is your server for tonight.

>>387200196
shut up already

It makes me depressed when I think about my time in tf2, because I can't remember. Over 500 hours of gameplay and I can only remember when I first one 666 on mvm
sad

>>387200251
you suck shit at tf2 lol

>>387200237
Replace BLU's engi with a gibus + pyrovision engi
The most powerful race in the world

>>387200317
fag

>>387200424
salty bad

>>387199553
I presume that a floor is the bare minimum to be decent at the class, correct?
Sorry, I just never heard the term used in this context.

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>>387189150

>>387200424
>>387200453
Girls, girls you're both good

>>387200286
I know that feel except I mostly played on the Mario Kart map

>>387193414
Backburner

>>387200453
>>387200424
>>387200317
>>387200251
>>387200196
>>387200147
>>387199957
>>387199747
>>387199682
autism speaks

>>387201139
through you

>>387200825
yeah that one was great, whenever I was bored I would sometimes just hangout on this one server that was 24/7 that map, most people didn't kill anyone anyways

>>387201178
for you*

>>387201432
thanks but i don't need someone with autism to speak for me

>>387200825
Mario kart map was the shit. Kino as fuck

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>>387201459
enjoy your delusions, faggot

>>387201884
enjoy your autism, autismo

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rate my loadout

>>387202015
Dunkin' Donuts/10

>>387202015
>Rich Evans is the Engineer

>play Engie on payload offense
>team steamrolls so hard my buildings are pointless and half my time is spent moving my buildings up

>>387202636
>not ninjaneering a tele right next to the enemy gate so half your team spawncamps them while the other half dances on the cart

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>Engie nest is destroyed
>Engineer pulls out his wrench
>Starts swinging wildly while running towards you

Paging PartyVan partyfag

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>>387203012
>he surfs off your rocket and smacks you right in the face

The mindless Pyro hate is getting old, honestly. It's either complaining about his players, how weak she is, or how shitposting about their low skill ceiling.

>>387203119
>she

>>387203119
>his

>>387203119
Shitters are never satisfied. When Pyro kills at short range easily, they shout "W+m1 no skill". When Pyro doesn't, they say the class is broken.

>>387189150
idk if it exists, but if they released vanilla servers like when the game first released I'd play again.

It was so much fun playing CP w/ the default classes before it went free to play.

For me Heavy was the most powerful, back when you could throw your sanvich on the floor and eat it as a healthpack. I would just randomly spam crouch to dodge sniper headshots.

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monitoring this thread for party van server.

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>cosmetics killed tf2
How does this actually effect the gameplay or server communities though?

>>387203832
a lot of people focus all of their attention of trading when they could be be members of the playing community

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>>387203012
>Attempt to destroy enemy nest
>4+ people come out of nowhere instantly and annihilate me

>Getting my shit sapped and blown up
>Nobody shows up until I'm dead and everything is down
>Lose
>teammate: "wtf engy u suck"

>>387203832
It doesn't, people just like whining about muh artstyle. And there's a no hat mod you can easily use anyway.

>>387193414
Fan O' War.
At least in pubs, I see shitters usually prefer the Sandman because of the free combo, but the Fan O' War can let you two-shot a Heavy if you play your cards right, and sometimes you need a two-shot against a good Heavy.

>>387190771
Yes, it has more content and better gameplay than any other multiplayer game out there

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>>387203859
People don't spend all their time trading, they obviously trade with the intent of showing off items ingame.

Valve cause they fucking killed it

>>387193414
Detonator. Those hit registers are like a symphony to my ears. Also, jumping around as pyro is fun as fuck and no one sees it coming.

Would anyone miss the sniper if it was removed from the game?

>>387191739
Scout gets gibed by any decent soldier or demo. And alot of the common maps are too cramped/filled with too many explosions for him to be viable, like Dustbowl

>>387204962
Just remove his sniper rifle

>>387204962
I'd miss getting butthurt in chat from killing super tryhards with the Huntsman, but otherwise fuck no

Pretty much Scouts/Medic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7rtNsRINpw


Tier 1
Medic

Tier 2
Scout > Soldier > Demo

Tier 3
Sniper

Tier 4
Heavy > Engineer

Tier 5
Pyro > Spy

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>>387192201
no


S tier: Medic
A tier: Engie (defense), Heavy (defense)
B tier: Scout, Demo, Soldier, Sniper
C tier: Pyro, Spy
D tier: Engie (offense), Heavy (offense)

(stock classes on symmetrical modes)

>>387192552

Hitscan >>>>>>> Projectiles

Good luck beating a Scout at mid range faggot

>>387189150
TONIGHT

>>387203012
This one time I killed a demo, soldier and pyro with stock engie's weapons in the 2fort sewer. They pyro was the last victim and just panicked and used his shotgun while I just gunned him down with my better aim. Shit was hilarious.

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>>387205491

>Engineer
>Above Scout/Soldier/Demo

>>387193395
>>literally every kill is a crit
>Sniper mains in charge of """"""""skill""""""""

Pyro's earned critical attacks are literally just normal damage, there's no need to get your panties in a twist over them

>>387205029
>>387192087

>Hitscan
>Ever losing to projectiles at a high level

Spot the pub stompers

>>387193774
that's stupid and you're stupid
nobody will appreciate arbitrarily reducing the amount of players for no reason
if you're talking about comp, 10v10 is way too many people to actually organize a game in a timely fashion of people on the same skill level

>>387200237
algum br?

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>>387205491

>Heavy
>Anywhere but bottom tier
>Engineer better than Scouts/Soldiers

Abhorrent list tbqh

>>387197732
Yes that would be a great idea.
Make it similar to how Force-A-Nature works; ie. Pyro jumps a short distance in exchange for ammo consumption, and can do it 10 times.

>>387205693
Scout needs to git close to deal damage, which then a demo or solly can instant kill him with a rocket or pill

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>>387205491
>Engie and Heavy above Soldier
Yeah I don't think so poptart

>>387203859
Utter rubbish
Even in "trade servers" 75% of the players are fighting all the time
Go see for yourself

>>387205841

>Scout needs to get close to deal damage

Glad to know that you've never played above the Pub level.

>>387204962
>game is now heavy spam
What do you think, anon?

>>387205841

Scouts are virtually unstoppable at medium range and if anything, are worse up close. The fuck you talking about? A good scout will just hit scan meat shot your ass all day and dodge whatever rocket you launch at him from mid range

>>387205841

>Unironically thinking a Demoman stands a chance against a Scout

Scout is a hard Demoman counter faggot and even a Soldier is hopeless if the Scout knows how to maintain range.

Noob Scout vs Noob Soldier = Soldier

Pro Scout vs Pro Soldier = Scout

>>387205954
comp tf2 is joke

might as well play CSGO

>>387205989
Still just the same.

>>387206170
I mean you're welcome to set up a server where the class limit for snipers is set to 0 or something and see how that affects the game.

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>>387205624
>>387205765
Let me educate you people who don't understand the game you're talking about.
>>Heavy
>>Anywhere but bottom tier
I did put OFFENSE Heavy on the bottom tier, because that's where he's not useful, and that's what makes people mistakenly think Heavy is underpowered.

Heavy on DEFENSE is significantly more useful than a Soldier, Demo, or especially Scout in the same situation. With 300HP overhealed up to 450HP and 540-54 DPS on an undodgeable hitscan weapon that never needs to reload, he is a walking ball of stats. The only weakness he has to balance all that is low movement speed, and that doesn't matter as much when you're on defense.
This is why comp teams frequently switch off a Soldier or Scout for a Heavy on last, and why Heavy is classlimited to 1.
>>Engineer
>>Above Scout/Soldier/Demo
Are you seriously telling me you'd rather have a stock Scout while defending, than an Engineer in the same situation?

The Level 3 Sentry Gun has the second highest DPS in the game, the highest healing rate in the game, the second highest HP in the game, and that's before factoring in the Dispenser too which gives health/ammo to your team. Again, the only real weakness of the Engineer is mobility, which is not a big deal while on defense.

And that's what makes Engineer better than other classes ON DEFENSE. That's why comp players limit him to 1 and why any pub defense with more than 6 Engies is nearly a guaranteed win.
>>387205895
I said S T O C K.
With that said, Direct Hit is definitely useful against Sentries/Heavies, but good players don't use it because it gimps them too much against good Scouts who know how to dodge.

>>387206096
>Scout is a hard Demoman counter
No such thing exists. Demoman can kill Scout if he is more skilled, therefore Scout is a soft counter.
Agree otherwise.

>>387189150
>Most powerful through skill
Sniper
Scout
Demo
Soldier

>Most powerful innately
Medic
Heavy
Engineer
Soldier

If we unlimited everything for high level play the game would be nothing but Medic and Demo though.

>>387207426
>If we unlimited everything for high level play the game would be nothing but Medic and Demo though
Not really. Matchmaking has shown us that Scout spam or Soldier spam is more popular as a gamebreaking option than Demo spam.

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>>387189150
THE POOTIS BIRD

>>387204196
>content
You mean cosmetics, right?

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>tfw this game just happened an hour ago
nice balancing, valve

>>387209271
>Spy and Engineer topscoring
nani the fuck

>>387209196
I mean weapons and maps and game modes, plus mods. But sure, you can count the 3000-odd cosmetics too if you want.

>>387209368
the engie was a gunslinger/widowmaker who cleaned house
the spy was ridiculous and played heavy on defense, I think

>>387209271
>retards yell WAHH WAHH AUTOBALANCE ME NO LIKEYYY and meme about how percievedly unfair it is
>Valve listens and removes it
>Game falls to shit because teams are literally never balanced
>Sensible players ask for it to come back
>Valve doesn't listen

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>>387200237
And blu would still be btfo.

Some of the worst players that I could tell weren't new were ones decked out in shitty paint and unusual's.

>>387209536
>going for brock loadout
>not using Prinny Machete

>>387209536
This is true, most people who have bad paint and unusual are really bad.

>>387209580
I have it actually but I was kicking ass on doublecorss earlier.

It's like no one knows about the fists of steel

>>387209497
The best part was, we all were only queued with one other person or solo queuing. We didn't have a single six stack.

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Being heavy weapons guy is suffering.
>Not good enough to be top tier
>Still bad enough to be situational

Assuming class limits:

S(eparate) Tier: Medic

A+: Scout, Soldier

A: Demo
---

C: Sniper

C-: Heavy

D+: Spy, Pyro

D: Engineer

>>387189150

Soldier.

I like to brag that I'm a superb battlesniper, so if you meet me, then sniper.

>>387209757
refer to >>387205491

It's pointless trying to stick Engie and Heavy in one tier, because their viability is drastically different depending on whether you're trying to push or hold.

Medic is far and above better than Scout, Demo, or Soldier. Your team can survive with any one of those three combat classes being replaced by someone else, but they just can't survive without a Medic.

>>387209846
>A+: Scout, Soldier
>A: Demo
Then why is Demo never switched off, while Scout and Soldier often are?
>D: Engineer
Then why do people frequently switch off Soldier/Scout for Engineer, and how come defensive teams on every game mode always contain an Engineer? Why would you swap a shit D tier class for an A+ tier class?

Engie and Heavy should be split into different tiers depending on whether they're on offense or defense.

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Objective ratings: Powerlevel
1. Medic (you will never win without him)
2. Demoman (Highest DPS at most ranges)
3. Scout (Massive DPS at his optimal range, and can dodge)
4. Soldier (Good mobility, good burst damage and good HP. lacks ammo and clip size)
5. Sniper (Can wipe an entire team if they walk into his lane, but can't engage in any other way. Threatened by flankers)
6. Engineer (Will stall your game, but needs full team support otherwise he will be btfo.)
7. Heavy (Decent pocket but gets cornered and assraped way too easly because of his slowness)
8. Pyro (Can defend the engineer and push back übers, otherwise totally useless)
9. Spy (The picker class for someone who can't aim. Will at maximum get one kill each life)

>>387189150
Soldier by far.

>>387189212
>in my very specific way the game was never supposed to be played and autism "competitive" modes for retards this otherwise useless shit class is good

Cool.

>>387205548
Fun times defending the cart after your nest was destroyed with nothing but your wrench.

>>387209757
Who the hell is the artist for these portaits? I know it's Valve but the look so off. What is going on with Demo's and Heavy's heads/faces? Medic also looks a bit off.

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>>387203012
>pyro sets his sights on you
>theres a million things shooting his ass but he still comes for you

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>>387205629
>earned Criticals
>earned
>criticals
>Criticals a good mechanic outside of kritzkriege
>right click once to reflect a rocket into a soldier and deal 190dmg...no other class can do that kind of dmg instantly outside of sniper
>also probably lit them on fire so it should kill the person.
>will think this isn't overpowered and broken
>Pyromains are this retarded.

Real question is which is worse, pyromains or spymains?

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>that butthurt Demofag mad as fuck that Scout and Soldier have made his class obsolete in the Meta

Brb, bum rushing me some Demo scrubs as a Scout

>>387210110

>Demo is never switched off

Explain to me why the Meta is x2 Scout and x2 Soldiers and never x2 Demoman?

Scout > Soldier > Demoman

This is just common knowledge

>>387210148


>still forcing the Demo man meme

>>387210551
the guy who made the original concept art did the portraits. blame the modelers for deviating.

Scout.

>>387189562
>There's a reason nobody gives 2 shits about a Sniper on 6v6s and the meta almost never includes them.
Because running him to mid sucks and team sizes means that replacing a Scout or Soldier actually matters.

Sniper is a fundamentally bad design, it's instakill hitscan with no falloff in a game with high ttks and close/mid-range fighting.

>>387191008
.2 seconds to headshot, you don't need to charge to 1-shot Scouts.

>>387193414
SBL

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The Scout is pretty much the most powerful class at the highest level and invites more or less confirm this (Scouts are the highest class in demand for Competitive play).

Not including Medics of course (which is THE most powerful class). Demoman used to be king but nerfs and updates put him below the Soldier now.


In terms of 1v1, the Scout is still King.

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>Which is the most powerful class in this game?

Medic and Scouts, it isn't even close. Ignore the Pub stompers claiming Demoman or Soldier.

http://logs.tf/profile/76561197970669109

Is there a tf2 players that mains Pyro and makes videos about him?
I'm trying to improve by looking at other players and so far I found Soldier, Scout, Engi and Spy mains but no Pyro mains.

Spare me your anti-Pyro autistic screeching, thank you.

>>387210726
Because ESEA, UGC, ETF2L all bans 2 Demo.

>>387210726
in 6v6 meta it would probably be 5 scouts and 1 medic but class limits keep it balanced.

Demoman excels at locking down a choke and spamming, imagine if you had two of them; games would last forever, be quite overpowered and realistically quite boring game play.

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>mfw I'm second place with 4 kills as soldier

>>387211076

No they're not.

>>387211116

>chokes
>mattering in high level play

Any good player, no matter the class, avoids chokes and even then, Soldier is just as effective at locking down chokes.

>>387211068
Just look up "UGC platinum Pyro" and look for PoVs or demo reviews.

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>>387189150
Spy.

Pretty sure it goes

Objective based:

Medic > power gap > Scout > Soldier > Demo > Sniper > Engineer > Heavy > Pyro > Spy

1v1:

Scout > Soldier > Sniper > power gap > Demo > Heavy > Pyro > Spy > Engineer

>>387211264
Neato, thank you.

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>he mains anything

>>387211364
>I'm a GOOD player, so I spend an equal amount of time on shitty situational classes as I do generalists

>>387211223
defending last, blocking uber pushes into your last, locking down flanks, locking down control points (cps are just a choke you have to capture)

Soldier has 4 rockets, once he uses those 4 rockets he has to reload, demo has 8 can just place and forget while continuing to do dmg with pipes.
Hence why they are ideal for choke / objective holding. Also they do monstrous dmg in team fights when the enemy is backed into a choke (eg badlands middle and product; maps which demos excel at)

>people saying anything but the Scout/Medic

Do you faggots even play competitively?

>b-b-but muh Demoman!
>b-b-but muh Soldiers!
>unironically thinking Projectiles stand a chance against hitscan weapons

>>387211223
>No they're not.
Why is anyone responding to this troll?

>>387211461

>Soldier has 4 rockets, once he uses those 4 rockets he has to reload, demo has 8 can j

Demo man has a far longer reload than Soldier though, so you're being disingenuous with that comparison.

Like I said, there's a reason why the meta is x2 Soldier/x2 Scout and not x2 Demo man.

They are just not as good

>>387211545
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Standard_competitive_format#Class_Limits
>1 Demoman or fewer at any given time
Take your (U) and go

Scout

Soldier and Demoman come in second, not sure which is better overall though.

These last posts are a glaring hint at why competitive 6v6 are cancer.
Highlander is the only acceptable competitive set that kills all this power creep nonsense in a game based around team play.

>>387211887
lol hl

>>387211887
>unironically playing Sniperlander

>>387211545
not even that other person who said x2 demoman..

I never said soldiers weren't good at holding flanks, just that demo does it better.

Demo also has the 4 pipes which means he has 12 projectiles he can do dmg with before he has to reload. It's not whether x class is better overall, it's all situational, like how defending last / dry pushing to points if you have eliminated a demoman the odds are much more favorable. Hence why you'll see alot of the top end games a lot of dry pushes happen when a demo has been picked. ( I'll give you another example; process middle to 2nd is extremely hard to dry push due to a demo just locking down the chokes, you could go through sewer but again a good demo will lock down these chokes whiles your flankers defending IT)

Not to mention if you can force an uber by simply just locking down a choke and force the enemy medic to have to uber through it; that's a huge advantage that a demo brings to 6's a soldier can only do max 110 at once, a demo you can multi sticky and wipe an entire team; hence why it's so important for scouts to check sticky traps.

>>387211887
6v6 dull as dirt, to be honest.

>>387212013
don't know what 6v6 you've been watching / playing. I suggest actually playing and getting better, the top end is god tier gameplay / strategy

>>387211973
Sure I love to play the same Scout/SoldierX2/DemoX2/Medic over and over and over against the same exact composition.

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>Decide to get back into TF2
>go to scrap,tf to get some weapons
>You need to have steam mobile authentication activate for 7 days for trading
Fuck you Gay Ben, 2 step email authentication is enough, I don't want your fucking app on my phone.

>>387212087
>Git gud
The argument to kill all arguments huh

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>>387212209
Is Soldier trying to be wojack?

>>387212209
I almost got my account stolen, I shat my pants and set up the mobile authentication.
It's not that bad once you get used to it.

>>387211995

>Demoman still shook

Sorry babe, Demoman will always be below Scout/Soldier

>>387212092
HL forces one class composition, except HL is also a shitty slow gamemode because of snipers with an army of braindead support classes to defend them.

>>387211887
it's not hard to find videos of pros explaining why they all ended up agreeing on their current ruleset for competitive.
more players means your kills are less valuable and there's more confusion on comms.
the main 4 were chosen based on mobility, versatility, and DPS. soldier, scout, and demo are THE fastest classes in the game.
scout dominates open areas and 1v1s, soldier dominates close-range and can bomb in with massive splash damage, and demo can quickly pump out mid-long range DPS like no other.
sniper is too slow and causes massive stalemates, so the only teams that offclass to sniper often are europeans who like to stalemate. plus he's really hard to be good enough at.
pyro is trash and spy is only good at killing when the enemy isn't looking out for a spy.
heavy and engineer are only good at defending.

6v6 trims the fat, cutting out broken weapons, broken gamemodes, and insanely stalematey tactics (although eurotrash still finds a way to slow it down on last).

>>387212328
I'm sorry you're so retarded that somehow your steam login and email login both got compromised. Do you let suspicious Russians borrow your phone for long periods of time as well?

>>387212209
I know this feel, but at the same time, it stopped some dude from Germoney from taking my shit.

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>>387203012
>Heavy with a Medic on Doublecross
>holding off the entire enemy team outside their intel room
>at least 3 sentries in there
>Medic is hurt so I throw my Sandvich at him
>fucking dodges it then takes an eternity to actually take it
>he reaches full charge and I stand outside the entrance spamming Go! Go! Go!
>just stands there healing me
>eventually have to type out explaining how to Uber
>just stands there healing me
>we get destroyed by 5 guys respawning at once

>>387212452
Don't be cocky, nigger. You'll find yourself in my same situation sooner or later and you'll shit your pants too. It's just a matter of time.

>>387210883
Stock Scout, Soldier, and Demo are on the same level.
>In terms of 1v1, the Scout is still King
Depends on the environment, and whether Soldier is running Shotgun. Scouts normally don't win MGE tournaments.

>>387211887
>Highlander is the only acceptable competitive set
Well too bad, because it simply doesn't work in a matchmaking game mode.
That's why 6v6 is the official mode for Team Fortress 2 competitive.

Neither HL nor 6s are without their problems, but 6s is the better game mode.

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>>387211887
>he thinks highlander is balanced, skilled and fun to watch
>no power creep in HL

You keep enjoying your glorified pub game

>>387212209
Use Bluestacks, basically an emulator for android.

>>387211887
Pretty much every thing else has been tried, 5v5, 7v7, 8v8, 9v9, Highlander, Prolander, 2 Demo\Heavy\Engi\Medic allowed, pick\ban, completely unlimited, you name its been tried over the 10 years, 6s is the only one that enough people like playing and enough people like watching.

>>387213025
4v4 has become kinda popular also but it's still just a gimmick compared to 6's. But this post essentially sums the reasoning behind the meta / game mode of 6v6 and why it's the most popular competitive game mode to skill ratio.

>>387212449
also this

>>387212817
MGE takes both healing and running away out of the fight, in a real match a Scout can fight a Soldier and wear him down then run for health if he needs it and re-engage before the Soldier can get to a health pack, or if the Soldier rocket jumps, he is just wasting health, Scout wins the battle of attrition.

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>mfw there's always 2 or 3 spies
>mfw want to give spy a whirl for something different
>mfw I'd just feel guilty if I did
>go back to whatever role isn't occupied

>>387213314
>in a real match a Scout can fight a Soldier and wear him down then run for health if he needs it and re-engage
Well we have to decide whether we're talking about 1v1s or real matches here.

If you're talking 1v1s in MGE, Soldier>Scout.
If you're talking 1v1s in a game where the rest of your team is dead or not present, then you have objectives to worry about. Scout can't always just run away-- maybe he's the only one defending the point.

Who wins a game is decided by who takes the objectives, rather than who gets the kills.

When a game has a certain amount of characters and only a handful of them turns out to be viable, then there's something wrong with the game.
A balanced game should let every character to be perfectly viable in most situations.
I don't expect people that main their precious dps classes to understand it though.

>>387213409
this is why spy needs a buff not just for comp, but for pubs too
it wouldn't matter whether you had 1 Spy or 6 Spies if Spy could actually contribute to the team in ways other than being an inferior Sniper/inferior Demo

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>>387213409
>0 spies/snipers
>go spy/sniper for one life
>check scoreboard
>3+ spies/snipers
They need to implement something in-between Casual and Comp for people who actually know what they're doing

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>>387213526
>A balanced game should let every character to be perfectly viable in most situations.
I sort of agree.
But I don't think a class should be viable in most situations (ie: any given moment), I think it should be viable in most lives (ie: a mixture of situations you experience after you choose your class and spawn).

I want each and every class to be the best in 11% of situations, good in 39% of situations, bad in 39% of situations, and the worst in 11% of situations.

>>387213634
ranked casual that sets up teams with equal numbers of pubstompers, milquetoasts, and gibusvisions.

>>387213634
that's what Competitive Matchmaking was meant to be. But it still has too many issues

>>387213736
might as well put that effort into improving comp matchmaking. That idea is pretty much the same as what comp is already meant to be

>>387189212
>scout
>not the ultimate rape machine in pubs

Only thing that can stop a great-tier or better scout in pubs is an invite sniper or DH solly.

>>387213409
I perfectly know that feel. I'm getting worse at playing Spy because my team doesn't allow me to practice. I feel guilty keeping Spy when we have other 3 spies.

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>>387213828

>>387213634
I miss serves with class limits.

>>387213979
DELETE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

>>387213634
Haha I swear I've never seen the guy on the left in this picture before
His face might be even better than the dumb bitch's

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>>387214046
ok

>>387200572
He seems to mean Skill Ceiling/Skill Floor. And yes, that is the gist of it.Skill floor indicates the minimum skill to be proficient at something, while skill ceiling indicates the cap on effectiveness based on skill.

>Guys Im updating the Party Van server tomorrow I promise!
>not a single thread all day

>>387191008
Wait so there's a spectrum of damage the sniper does based on charge?

I thought it was just binary, uncharged vs fully charged damage.

>>387213409
I know that feel, but if the situation calls for a good spy you should just pick it anyways. Just deny the existence of the other spies and pretend that you just have a player disadvantage.

>>387214548
That's how I feel about scout.
Learn to aim and get in others' heads, and he's arguably broken in pubs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuhiBR_E1zs
Reminder that anyone and everyone who used this piece of garbage was a shitter.

>>387213409
pub is pub, play what you wanna play and have fun!

Majority of the things said here are from the pov of competitive players in regards to competitive 6v6; alot of it translates over but at the end of the day...pub tf2 is just a random spazfest

Is it ok to play 5/10 times sniper 3/10 times soldier and 2/10 times scout?

>>387212817

>Stock Scout, Soldier, and Demo are on the same level.

Lmfao, no they're not.

>Depends on the environment, and whether Soldier is running Shotgun. Scouts normally don't win MGE tournaments.

Source needed.

Scout > Soldier > Demo

>>387213483

>If you're talking 1v1s in MGE, Soldier>Scout.

You're basing that off absolutely nothing though.

How the fuck is a Soldier going to beat a Scout with projectiles?

Hitscan >>>>>> projectiles.

A good Scout will always beat a good Soldier on that fact alone just by staying at mid range and easily dodging the slow ass rockets.

>>387214629
The dead ringer is seriously the worst idea Valve ever had

Even worse than Dota Hearthstone.

>>387214586

Scout is arguably broken anywhere. He's simply the most consistently effective class in the game behind the Medic

>>387191008
Why were there so many responses that didn't actually answer this question?

It takes 3.3 seconds for Sniper to fully charge a headshot.

An uncharged bodyshot is 50 damage, a charged bodyshot is 150 damage.

An uncharged headshot is 150 damage, a charged headshot is 450 damage.

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>>387214793
>You're basing that off absolutely nothing though
MGE tournament results dumbass. Read the thread.
>Hitscan >>>>>> projectiles
You are the one basing that off absolutely nothing. Actual results by players ingame show that to be wrong.
>How the fuck is a Soldier going to beat a Scout with projectiles?
Splash that reaches up to 146HU (the diameter of 7 Heavies standing side by side).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAo2KLyuTCM
> and easily dodging the slow ass rockets
Rockets move faster than Scout does and they have splash as already mentioned.

It's possible for a good Scout to dodge rockets, it's also possible for a good Soldier to hit Scout. Comp Soldiers kill equally good Scouts with rockets all the time. So stop talking out of your ass.

>>387213526
Every class should have its niche, but making them "equally viable" is a meme that would only make the game stale. Heavy is full-time viable when you give him a movement unlock, but it's also extremely boring because Heavy slows down the game by design, and making him "viable" involves letting him do that everywhere. You could tone down his damage and health, but that's what makes Heavy unique.

TF2 has the right idea with the general/special split, the problem is fine-tuning these roles. Pyro's niche is both very narrow and very annoying for everyone involved, so it should be changed. Sniper's niche is arguably too strong, so tone it down. Et cetera.

>>387214629
DR is stupid but an engi that follows a Spy up to its spawn is just as stupid. He should be helping his team with dispenser and teleports, not doing Pyro and Scout's job.
>Inb4 assblasted engi mains jump on my throat

>>387200673

>always lol at pic
>realize hes wearing boston hat
>not even his own native countries hat

>lel

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>>387214793
>How the fuck is a Soldier going to beat a Scout with projectiles?
Okay anon, prove to us that Soldiers never beat Scouts with projectiles. We'll wait.

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>>387215172

Get me the sources then retard, i'm not taking your word for it.

The closest thing i've seen to a logsheet in regards to competitive play is this:

https://logs.tf/

And guess what, Scouts dominate the leaderboard in any game they're present in (which is the vast majority)

>You are the one basing that off absolutely nothing. Actual results by players ingame show that to be wrong.

Hahahaha, are you seriously arguing that Hitscan >>> Projectiles?

Confirmed for being a Pub stomper.

Get out of my face faggot

>Rockets move faster than Scout does and they have splash as already mentioned.


Not at mid range they don't retard. A scout can EASILY dodge rockets if he maintains mid range.

Noob Soldier vs Noob Scout = Soldier wins

Pro Soldier vs Pro Scout = Scout wins.

Stay mad Soldier shitter, there's a reason every meta lists Scout as above Solider.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7rtNsRINpw

>>387215325

>intentionally acting obtuse to the argument
>samefagging

Ok, explain to me how a Good Soldier is going to beat a good Scout who maintains mid range distance :^)

Hit Scan meat shots >>>> your shitty slow ass projectiles.

>>387215271
It is already stale though. Because you are forced to play few specific classes to win, killing all variety necessary to avoid being stale and dull.

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>>387215172
>mge
>tournaments
I really hope you're not serious about this.

MGE Is used to practice and improve your aim and accuracy + dmg; trying to win in the 1v1's is completely retarded let alone using it as a guide to assess good game play decisions.

Not to mention this attitude will actually result in bad rabbits which are NEGATIVES IN A COMPETITIVE SITUATION.

The amount of mge dmg lords who don't actually have functional brains is pretty amazing through out the competitive scene and across all skill levels don't be this derp.

>>387215271
>You could tone down his damage and health, but that's what makes Heavy unique
What makes Heavy unique is having the highest HP (which would still be true if it was reduced a bit), firing a large hitscan gun which takes time to rev up, and being a class with a simple but effective design. All those things would still be true.

If you're really saying that Heavy's unique identity is having exactly 300 HP and 540 damage-- who actually enjoys that identity? He's boring as fuck right now, the least popular class in the game.
Sure, maybe he'd be less unique if he was pushed closer to the other classes statistically, but he would still be unique nonetheless, and more people would actually enjoy him, plus the people who already enjoy him would be able to play him full time.
>TF2 has the right idea with the general/special split
I'm getting sick and tired of explaining this to people. It's not an intentional split. Robin Walker was using those words to describe a problem he wanted to fix, by taking actions like introducing GRU.

What's more, he never even specified which classes were "generalists" other than Soldier and Demo, and didn't identify any "specialists".

You can't justify half the classes in the game being viable only 1% of the time off that information.

The only reason why "generalists" and "specialists" exist is because Valve hasn't been balancing TF2 for comp for the last 9 years, they've been balancing it for pubs. Where you might just notice that pretty much every class is viable.

soldier v scout is a predict vs react matchup with delayed damage vs instant damage.

scout wins every encounter in a high level vacuum because of that. it's not an impossible matchup by any means like some of the hyperbole driven dipshits would have you believe, but the soldier must predict correctly where the scout is going to move in order to win. there's no getting around it.

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Who /negativeKDratio/ here? I'm not a medic main.

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>>387215385
You're making the claim, you back it up. Provide video evidence of no Soldier ever killing a Scout.
>>387215529
>MGE Is used to practice and improve your aim and accuracy + dmg; trying to win in the 1v1's is completely retarded let alone using it as a guide to assess good game play decisions.
I don't care about your "this should be X" judgements. They aren't relevant to the discussion.
People have played it competitively, and Soldiers have come out on top almost every time.

Scout is good, but not objectively superior to Soldier in 1v1 combat. It depends entirely on the situation.

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http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=458921068

vote this up or you're a faggot

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>tfw flying around the map at light speed
why don't you main soldier /v/

>>387215405
This

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>>387215697

>You're making the claim, you back it up. Provide video evidence of no Soldier ever killing a Scout.

Where did I say no Soldier has ever killed a Scout.

Quote me

>>387215697

>People have played it competitively, and Soldiers have come out on top almost every time.

[citation needed]

Soldierbabbies are easily the most triggered. It's ok, hopefully the update will make Soldier peasants as good as Scout Kings

>>387215704
[heavy breathing]
wOAW that set

Is people purposely ignoring Soldier has a shotgun too

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>>387215749
>Where did I say no Soldier has ever killed a Scout.
>Quote me
"How the fuck is a Soldier going to beat a Scout with projectiles?" ( >>387214793 )
Your words faggot. Now I'm going to enjoy watching you try to squirm out of them.

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Kuyashii...

>>387215697


>no source

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>>387215704
>tfw no full WAHOO set yet

>>387215815
exactly
Soldier: Shotgun and 200HP
Scout: Scattergun and 125HP

but the guy who's bitching doesn't understand anything he's talking about, obviously doesn't play 6s, and thinks I'm a Soldier main. Just ignore him, he's not worth convincing.

>>387215405
The classes that are full-time viable are well skill-indexed, but you're still rewarded for knowing when to switch. Far less stale than "let's play Sniper chicken for an hour because we're both running Heavy/Engie/Pyro/Sniper/Medic/Demo and are incapable of making any other play."

Before you say "just tone down the stall ability of the specialists," remember that you're taking away the unique features of these classes. Nobody wants to play a class-based shooter in which every class is near-identical.

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>>387215837

>"How the fuck is a Soldier going to beat a Scout with projectiles?"

I don't see anywhere in that statement, me saying that no Soldier has ever killed a Scout.

Shit, I don't even see a statement being made. I see a question being asked.

Try again, Soldiercuck

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>>387215896
>>387215815

>Soldier trying to kill a fucking Scout with a shotgun

>>387215893
Plumber's Cap needs a no mustache style. It looks better with "The Dictator".

>>387215704
>TFC

>>387215986
Yes

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>>387215896

In what fucking world would anyone advise using a Shotgun against a Scout? You have every disadvantage and lose the only thing that makes Soldiers have any semblance of movement, Rocket Jumps. Good luck trying to out gun a Scout using a Shotgun in competitive play, lmfao

>mfw Pub stompers try to pretend like they play competitively

>>387215704
>YET ANOTHER tfc inspired visor
STOP we already have like three

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>>387215896
>>387215815

>"DUDE, JUST FIGHT THE SCOUTS AT THEIR OWN GAME, THAT'S HOW YOU BEAT THEM!"

brb, 3 shotting the slow ass bulky Soldiers with 3 meaty shots.

>>387216069
There are only 2 and one of them was just added a couple months ago.

On top of that, one of them is based off of TF2's concept art, not TFC.

>>387215917
>Before you say "just tone down the stall ability of the specialists," remember that you're taking away the unique features of these classes. Nobody wants to play a class-based shooter in which every class is near-identical
I want to know what you think of >>387215595, since I already addressed that.

>>387215837
>How the fuck is a Soldier going to beat a Scout with projectiles?
is not
>no Soldier has ever killed a Scout
by any stretch of those words

the correct answer is prediction. that is how soldiers kill scouts.

>>387215917
I get what you say but eventually nobody will want to play a class-based shooter where a handful of classes have a decisive advantage over all others.
To say it in french, it's a cul-de-sac.

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>>387215697
mge is not relevant you're just an idiot; it's literally used as a way of training and practicing. It simulates possible situations you might encounter in a game it is by no means to be used as the holy grail let alone any ground to make any arguments. Ask anyone in the top end of the 6v6 scene and they will pretty much repeat what i just said.

Real 6v6 games have very different outcomes, very different fight situations it's rare you'll get a dm 1v1 style with both players fully buffed.

The problem that MGE causes when people take it serious is tunnel vision because they think they can win every fight on raw dm. Like hey cool you almost killed that guy with your sick raw dm but you just lost your medic your demo and now because you focused one idiot with raw dm the rest of the team are coming to kill you; this is one situation out of thousands but ultimately one of the key problems with taking MGE seriously it increases your aiming and dm but it doesn't increase your game awareness and decision making.

If you want something along those lines to compare something; DM 10v10 servers are quite good; but ultimately are not a 6v6 situation

>>387216126
Plutonidome sort of counts as well. And really we don't need more than 1.

>>387215954
Yes.

>>387216126
Which one is it? I've been trying to remake TFC loadouts in TF2. So far I've done it on heavy, soldier, and medic. Is it possible on any others?

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>>387216183
>this
>TFC inspired visor

???

>>387216175
10 max players on server not 10v10

>>387216161

>Predicition

Even if you predict a good Scouts movement correctly, he's already gone long before the Rocket hits him if he fights you at medium range.

Stop stomping shitty Scouts who rush you in Pub sessions and thinking that's how a good Scout would fight you. A soldier has almost no chance against a good Scout.

If the Soldier uses his shotgun, he's fucked because he is at a huge disadvantage (zero mobility because he no longer has rocket jumps and is essentially a sitting duck).

If the soldier uses Rockets then he's fucked because Hit Scan >>>>>> projectiles.

A good Scout should always beat a good Soldier generally speaking.

>>387216238
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Pyro
Scroll to the bottom of the cosmetics list at the end of the page and have a snoop around. It shouldn't be hard to find since it was added recently.

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>>387216069
Hazmat Headcase is based on beta Pyro's design

Airtight Arsonist isn't based on anything. It's supposed to be a "space helmet".

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>Soldierbabbies still triggered over Scout overtaking them on the tier rankings

I've now dropped out of the argument, but I'm convinced the guy is samefagging replying to himself.

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>>387216069
This is the TFC Pyro's helmet, as depicted by Valve in the TF2 comic.

>>387216382
looks pretty fucking ugly
Step up the QC, Valve
>three full face visors
>three near-identical Demo crowns
>God knows how many 18th century hats

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>people still arguing who's the best class for Competitive play

Why is this even an argument?

https://logs.tf/

Go through the fucking stat logs. Scouts fucking dominate the competitive scene.

>>387216408
>>387216070
Go figure, Scout mains are pepecancer normies.
>That guy with a pepe avatar that plays only scout and is always at the bottom of the scoreboard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-6UUUih7cQ&t=264s

A pro Scout player and a pro Soldier player MGE, and surprise its a pretty even affair.

But even they admit that the real game favors Scout, but this mainly due to every fight not being 1v1, more specifically its because blob tactics making every fight into 1v2 or 2v3 or 4v2.