Stop using Cloud after losing.

low tier shitters who complain about people picking high tiers are worst than tier-whores

literally
>WAAAH LOOK AT ME I'M A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE FOR GIMPING MYSELF AND YOU'RE CANCER FOR PICKING A BETTER CHARACTER THAN ME

kill yourself and I say it as someone who plays Ike

Playing this right now.

Why does the movement feels so awkward compared to melee?

>>387014792
>cloud shitter doesn't know how to read
He said stop picking Cloud after losing, which is what shitters do when they can't win with their actual main.

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>>387014487
>beat ZSS/bayo/mario as ness
>they switch to cloud
>i'd already switched to charizard
>win charizard vs cloud mu

bonus points if they then immediately leave.

>>387014792
I dunno. What if it's their favorite character?

I mean, I main Samus and I know she's pretty weak but I don't drop her for Cloud if it means I might lose a match. I just stick to her and learn from the loss

>>387015260

The only "big" problem with Sm4sh is how utterly important character matchups are. They're important in different ways across different levels of play, but they're still FUNDAMENTAL across all spectrums of skill.

Having said that, you may often be forced to significantly outplay your opponent and take risks, if the mu is bad, whereas your opponent may not have to do the same. This creates a very skewed perspective for the player on the receiving end.

This is the root of the problem with the entire franchise.

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>>387014792
I think you'd have a point if this were any other game, but a lot of people play their main in Smash because it's their favorite Nintendo character. I fucking love Animal Crossing so Villager was day 1 main for me.
I don't think the issue is with high tiers as much as it's that Cloud as a character outclasses Shulk and Ike as sword fighters and dunks on the majority of low tiers with his range, power and speed. He's one of the best characters in the game without question. Inb4 he doesn't win tourneys; while Cloud can be dealt with at high level play, casual/mid level/For Glory players and their mains probably don't have the tools to deal with even a scrub Cloud. He's no fun to fight and people who switch to him after losing game 1 are the fucking worst.

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>>387014487
How about you suck my balls instead

>when you're competitive enough that you bitch about balance
>not not competitive enough to play an actual fighting game, or even a proper smash game.

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>>387014487
>implying I stay for a rematch
The only time I ever stay for a second game is if they play my main better than me.
Not once have I ever said "Yeah, I want to play you again."

Unlikely, because I play Robin and Palutena. You don't exactly see them every day.

>>387015260
After four Smash games of disappointment I finally dropped Link. Tired of for shit that isn't going.

>>387017156
Four games and Sakurai still can't get Link right. There is no hope.

>>387017267
>>387017156

Link is amazing for casual players.

That's what folks don't get - Smash is designed from the ground up for children and very casual players. It's decent at a midlevel of play, but then completely falls apart the closer to semi-pro you get.

The franchise was never intended to be taken as seriously as it has been.

>>387017381
Every character is amazing when you're facing someone retarded.

>>387015105
Sounds like free uptilts for Zard

>>387014487

I don't. I perform worse with Cloud than my DK and Zelda.

>>387017434

Exactly. The game is perfectly balanced for children/casual players. It's fucking flawless.

>>387017472

Cloud hatefucks Zard, mostly because Cloud has zero reason to approach, and his jab is the same speed as Zard's.

>>387015707
The problem I see is that to be truthful, even at high level of play Bayonetta and (to a lesser extent) Cloud are extremely unpleasant to deal with because their design bend some fundamentals of Smash. Without giving too much details, let's just say that Bayonetta doesn't give a fuck about the neutral game because she can count on an insanely powerful punish game without caring about DI or % to mess with her combos. Some characters are more neutral heavy, some other, more punish heavy, but in this case, it's just not making any sense. I was at a local last week and against a bayo in top 16, I have to focus insanely in neutral and exploit every mistake (which is pain since her hitboxes don't make sense), and end up racking some nasty damage giving me a good 80% lead. I made like 2 mistakes : first one, a jump, lost a stock at 35% over a with twist even though I SDI'ed like a madman ; second, a jab, lost my stock over a witch time.

As for Cloud...Without even talking about how stupid is his design with this killpower, up air combos, damage output, frame data, limit etc., Cloud is also a character who doesn't give a fuck about spacing. His neutral air covers tons of options, his auto cancel frames are quite generous, his range is insane... And unless they are powershielded, most of his move does huge shieldstun, making him pretty safe for aggroing. He also don't mind for defensive playstyles since he can just charge his limit and forces his opponent to come at him, while he has insanely good tools to deal with agressive playstyles. The thing is since he's relatively easy to pick up, you can get carried by him at low to mid level of play, but he's still a real threat at high level, give him some time.

>>387017525
>mostly because Cloud has zero reason to approach,

Isnt that a good thing

>>387016860
>Not once have I ever said "Yeah, I want to play you again."


I do, when-

>Yeah I shouldn't have lost that match
>Wow. an X main that doesn't play annoying
>H-He's good!
>I guess I can use my closet main on him without much trouble.

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>>387014487
I switch to wii fit trainer as retaliation. Sometimes we just taunt and just bubble battle.

>>387017651

Not with Limit Break as a mechanic, no.

Most of the DLC characters share the same problem: they HEAVIL encourage camping and hyper-safe playstyles.

>>387014792
there's this hip new meme where people that complain about the meta are accused of having "scrub mentality" but I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with complaining about the meta in itself? Sure just whining about it in a public match is kind of meaningless, but venting or not it can still be discussed.

If you actually care about the game beyond how good you are at it there's nothing wrong with wanting more character or weapon variety. in the higher tiers of play.

>>387017593
then why not do said camping and safe playstyle if nets you the win?

>>387017718
Do you mean they encourage playing safe with the character themselves or they encourage the opposing player to play safely?

>>387017779
meant for >>387017718

>>387017779
>>387017809

Oh, absolutely. It's just really, really boring to play against, and to watch.

>>387017807
>they encourage playing safe with the character themselves

This.

It's also a characteristic that most of the newcomers share - Villager, Megaman, Cloud, Bayoneta, Pac-Man, etc.

They literally REWARD camping in a very big way.

why do you guys play this slow boring ass game? have fun losing so many matches due to your lack of any options in any situation and the most garbage situational tech that never ends up being used

>>387017876
Ryu doesn't. His projectile is easily swatted away.

>>387017876
>It's just really, really boring to play against, and to watch.
And thats why no one does it
hell Wrath was getting wins by doing that shit and now he stopped doing it so where the wins?

and lol Bayo camping

>>387018009

Agreed. S'why I said "most". Same with ginger Ike.

>And thats why no one does it

Most players do it, who main those characters.

>professional players

Didn't read my earlier posts, so there's no sense in actually responding to this.

Pros represent .05% of the playerbase, at MOST.

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>be zard main
>win some lose some
really gets my noggin a joggin

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>been playing smash 4 since launch on 3ds and wii u
>FG almost daily because it's what's in the system and I'm too lazy to switch the game
>for three years
>new update
>can't update it because that would mean updating the wii u, which I can't because I'm in the middle of hacking it and get an external HDD
>probably have over 1000 hours combined from exclusively FG, wii u reads 450, can't check 3ds but I've had it longer than the wii u
>don't even know how good I am
>don't want to go to locals because I hate the gamecube controller
Am I finally free from this hell?

>>387018105
The so called pros are fucking idiots and should be ignore
one them thought Pac Man's down air was him throwing the Hydrant another one didn't know how Power Shield works and he's been playing since Brawl

>>387018105

Meant partially for >>387018028

>>387018306
Your local may allow like a pro controller. If you use gamepad though they may not allow you. Unless you've already looked and it says nothing allowed besides GC controller.

>>387014487
>playing 4gloryhole
>generally roll DK into new matches
>play some dude and their who gives a fuck main
>win
>they pick Cloud and beat my DK
>I gentleman's to my specifically anti-Cloud Game&Watch and throw them offstage and tap B repeatedly until they just give up and fall to their deaths or we're both kicked for idling

Great character.