What went wrong?

That is a very good question. Wonder if the brilliant minds of /v/ knows.

Nearly all the original devs from GW left, and none of the new devs even played the first, instead they play ff14

Raids. The difficulty comes from finding 9 people who are good and not pricks. Good luck with that.

No multi classing
abilities tied to your weapon

Someone post the frog's analysis pic. And people somehow are going to buy the expansion.

>>386824005
First guild wars had a skill system that felt like you were assembling a deck in a trading card game, guild wars 2 was a completely different type of game and a pretty shallow one at that.

>>386824005
Wasn't guild wars 1

>>386824005
it was nothing like guild wars.

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https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-fresh-start-the-new-player-experience-in-guild-wars-2/

They also released in China and thus everything following either pandered to chinks or tumblrwhales.

Guild Wars 2 was great at release.
Quality regressed as more updates came.
It was a steady, observable, flabbergasting decline if you were there. I can't even recall the amount of times "this was glitched so we just removed it" happened. As more "content" was added, the greater the weight of unrealized potential became.

desu GW2 v.1.00.0 was one of the best MMOs.

nothing, really, if youre like me and solo

>>386824005
The initial product was shit.
QoL additions that should have been in the game from the start.
Temporary content in a game that was already barebones.
Slow and sloppy balance process.
Developers forgetting broken features exist rather than fixing them.
More focus on the cash shop content than the actual game.
One expansion in five years.
Said expansion cost like a full game on launch and had less content than a patch.

But those fuckers at ANet must have done something right since I keep logging in from time to time.

>>386824005
Almost all design decisions and the classes felt like shit.

>>386824005
everything will be fixed with the new expansion

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>>386824005
It wasn't GW1.5. I mean, game has problems but the way you hear people rag about it you'd think it was the worst game ever made or something. If you don't like you move on for god's sake, don't bitch about it for five years already.

>>386825965
>In early open beta when overworld mobs and event bosses were actually a threat, and mobs would attempt to get out of AoEs
I want to go back

>>386824005
No PvE endgame

>>386826102

Its been thriving in the post-wow mmo landscape so its doing something people like.

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>>386825965
To be honest, I agree. The problem arise earlier than that. It was very obvious that NCsoft were in control and took all the profit from launch to make Wildstar. With the limited budget, and Felicia Day not wanting to VA Zojja because they have no money to spend, they hired retarded fucks to create the living story and a new team with their version, and you know how that turns out. I probably guess if NCsoft didn't outright stole the profit to make Wildstar, Destiny Edge, not Destiny Orphan might still be a thing.

The Ascended gear is unavoidable since their focus group are fucking WoW players and only WoW players.

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I remember GW2 PvP was some of the most clown fiesta shit I've ever seen in a PvP game outside of Wildstar. The warrior dev had no fucking clue what he was doing, "well I use rampage and kick" jesus Christ that game was sad.

Hello I'm a bunker guardian please fuck yourself.

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>>386825965
>yfw they removed golem chess

>>386826179
jesus I forgot about the AI nerfs

>>386824005
>see DAED GAME
>world overflow with each new update

Yeah, it's pretty clear /v/ doesn't actually play the game. I think the problem is people look at Guild Wars 2 the same way they would look at an MMORPG with a sub when in fact you're perfectly free to just leave and come back every ~3 months or so to check the new episode and unlock it. You also have people who play it like a typical MMORPG for 10+ hours each day and wonder why they run out of a content in a game not really designed around grind unless you care what your character looks like or titles.

>>386825965
>desu GW2 v.1.00.0 was one of the best MMOs.
>get to level 80
>literally have nothing to do
release was a shitshow, ANet couldn't get the TP to work for like 2 or 3 weeks

So where's the /v/ guild at, PoF first test tomorrow and then elite spec test next week (for anyone who wants to try)

Multiple factors imho:
-they made a "sequel" instead of a sequel (didn't respect the base material and pissed off some loyal veterans of the first game)
-they made several promises and broke them fast (see their manifesto)
- no interesting end-game content, no GvG (in a game named Guild fucking Wars), etc.
-they didn't understand what they were doing wrong for a long time

Game is still interesting or maybe I have low standards, it's what could have been that makes autistic /v/irgins sad.

>>386824005
All the good devs left and they replaced them with SJW trannies.

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>>386825784
Not all changes are good or bad, but I see this all the time with GW2 when people pin their opinions on the game as negatives or positives. I'm fucking tired of 30+ skills on my hotbars of which I'll maybe use four-five, for example.

>>386826309
>>386826179
Remember when you could pick whatever skill you want to unlock, or how CC is important in open world mob killing at beta? Yeah, retards were complaining about how confusing is it to choose a skill to unlock and how the mobs in beta is too hard.

>>386826413
WvW and Legendary was a thing back then. They're just neglected as fuck during the living story era because it doesn't involved salad or lesbians.

>>386826497
People like to think more buttons = more complexity.

>>386826518
>WvW and Legendary was a thing back then
yeah I miss those days in which thieves could shadowstep through walls in WvW
those were they days

>>386826292
jesus fuck i remember all the pvp shilling they did "PVP FOCUSED GAME! SERVER V SERVER! TRUE ACTION PVP!!!" shit feels floaty as hell and the, what must be diversity hires, didn't know what the fuck they were doing with balancing at all.

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>>386826497
well yes. they're opinions. it's not like people are factually breaking down the game point by point. I mean, you'll never really turn around those people who hate the fact skills are tied to weapons no matter how much you try because they essentially want the game to pull a 180 in order to please them.

it was made for casuals

Very little reason or reward from actually playing the game since the majority of new weapons and armors are added to the cash shop.

>>386826831
I am one of those 180 fags, I just hate that 95% of the game is good-amazing for me but then a core 5% is so bad that it ruins everything.

>>386826292
>warrior dev get raped by hyena ranger during beta
>ranger get nerf to fuck
Izzy is not well liked for a reason.

>>386826629
Yeah, WvW was fun, even with free transfer back in the day. With all this, it pains me that they could have done better for the game in the first year, but years after years releasing crappy living story content just pisses me off. The game has potential and I want to see it do better, but the new devs are just fucking retarded.

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I hope Soulbeast isn't shit. Rangers are always getting cucked

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>>386826951
>make a game for 'hardcore'
>it fucking flops

The hardcore crowd have never ever been a significant or health part of the MMO playerbase.

>>386824005
Almost everything.
Wish I had the toad picture handy right now.

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>>386827082
I think finally being able to merge with your pet aka do away with ranger's one liability due to pathfinding and AI, will be amazing.

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>>386827152

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>>386827185

Reminder that bitching about LE SJWS REEEEEEE GAYS??? TRANS??? IN MY VIDEOGAMES??? REEEEEEE WHY DON'T THEY MAKE THEIR OWN GAME OH WAIT THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING REEEEE isn't an actual valid critique of the (many) flaws of Guild Wars 2.

Please keep this in mind, and stick to analysis of why it sucks for legitimate design reasons!

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I like what they're doing with mounts, but I worry what will happen when they retroactively add them to old zones like they did with gliders, because you know that's going to happen. Those zones were not built for mounts.

>>386824005
What didn't?

>>386824005
Literally everything.

>>386827396
That makes it even better
Can't wait to go out of the boundaries

>>386826418
You do realize that the name Guild Wars is about the Charr going against the humans and not about guilds fighting against each other.

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>>386826179
>One of the first on my server to hit level cap
>tfw running around Orr three days after launch, way before any nerfs, with practically no other players around
>incredibly dense packs of enemies with dangerous skills, high damage, and big leash ranges
>all the GW1 references
>no stupid heart quests
>occasionally running across another player while exploring
That and week 1 dungeons were the only fun I was ever able to have with GW2, and neither of those things were ever expanded upon.

Ranger was the only real thing I liked about Guild Wars 2. Wasn't "amazing" at PvP but it just flowed really well, I like all the abilities you and your pet had - the traps were always fun to use. Outside of that I think the dev's for PvP were in freefall since the first fucking month.

>>386827550
The Guild Wars were an in-universe series of conflicts between multiple human kingdoms prior to the Charr invasion. It didn't refer to jack shit in GW2 or even anything that happened during the course of GW1.

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>>386827185
I agree with most of this, yet I still I still play it. There's just something about it that feels fun. Maybe since I don't have a lot of experience with other MMOs

>>386827185
Braham was a fag, but he wasn't gay. His girlfriend and hometown died to molten alliance.

>>386827696
I didn't like how pets are now mandatory as opposed to just another tool like they were in GW1.

>quick reply still broken
Fucking chink Moot.

>Water combat a big thing early on in the games life, was a big selling point
>As time went on they pretty much phased it out of relevance
Why though?
I blame Rangers in PVP personally

>>386827550
Different anon. It literally human guilds fighting each other for power. The Kingdom's army couldn't beat them. Brother were fighting against each other. It was only then the Charr came in and started killing them when the human races tries to fight back, but the Guild Wars weaken them. Oh and the game was, first and foremost, a PvP game.

It still stupid that with a name Guild Wars, you would expect a GvG in a game with a name Guild in it, or when the the first game has GvG but the sequel doesn't. They should have call it Tyria Wars or Sylvari Wars.

>>386827842
His Girlfriend left him after he save her for a fur trade. He an actual cuck.

Can you still play the original game? Is it worth it?

>>386828001
Guild wars 1?
Yeah you can still play it, it's pretty dead population wise, but they give you npc heros to fill your party with.
I saw some people making a /v/ guild to attempt to revive interest a bit, dunno how it's going though

>>386827069
Hyenas has the pretty obvious oversight where the extra Hyena the F2 skill spawned could also spawn more Hyenas of their own indefinitely. Of course it got fixed.

>>386826497
you see in GW 1 you only had like 8 abilities on your hotbar but you would use all of them and multiclassing gave you ALOT of build options that are useful and fun

>>386827891
I find it funny that in GW 1, warrior seem to be better off using Pets than Rangers. IWAY and NRA+Battle Rage were top kek for me.

>>386828001
Treat it like a single player WRPG with customizable team build with optional online interaction and you're golden.

I think GW 1 should have been F2P by now instead of +60 dollars

>>386828001
If you're going to play and want to group keep in mind most people are in NA district.

>>386828158
Let's conveniently forget 80% of GW1 skills were useless

>>386828214
>
I used a necro ranger build shit was hilarious

it was actually mostly using the OP PvE skills

>>386828282
they were and that wasn't my point ya dingus

>>386826497
>>386828158
This is one of them things that always rubs me the wrong way. People go on about GW1 having so many skills, but then you could only use 8 of them at a time.

Whereas in GW2 the absolute minimum skills you can have at any given time is 20.

>>386824005
Probably that this thread keeps getting made over and over and over again and whoever keeps making it apparently can't remember what was posted all those previous times. That's probably what's wrong.

>>386828158
You forgot to mention that you're group with other players and their 8 skills and things start getting interesting if the players sync their power right. Like having a 100 Blade warrior being buff by his necro's barb enchantment.

>>386828282
>Let's conveniently forget 80% of GW1 skills were useless
Naw. It help shift the meta and I made it a challenge to use all those skills for vanqing

>>386828282
>Let's conveniently forget 80% of GW1 skills were useless
Yeah, but you could make fun builds.

>>386827396
>no longer have to slot a movespeed/something to keep swiftness up just so I can run faster around old zones
Can't fucking wait.

>>386826218
It's being casual and throwing in glittery cosmetics for the huge chunk of players who are dissatisfied landwhales in dead end jobs who want to relax with a pretty virtual avatar, so they spend their free cash on it

I respect the business model, but it doesn't make a very good game

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>>386828347
It encourage the players to take their time to make their build matter. It also add in an element of surprise in, wait for it, pvp. There always meta builds in pvp, but using rarely used elites or skill can fuck the other player over. I love using this power in PvP since it make anyone useless, but at the same time, they don't really know what the power does because it was use so rarely.

The fact that there was no trinity meant the pve lacked focus, and a lot of it felt dumb. It mostly boiled down to greatsword warriors and a healer spamming down the mind before they went ape fucking nuts and started literally turning the floor to lava where there was no safe place. Even though I didn't do that much of it there were times when my groups alpha strike damage wasn't high enough to kill a boss before that happened and most of us were on the floor chucking rocks. The PvP was also a clusterfuck with ridiculously high TTK all around and just not fun WvW gameplay. I would rather have been playing WAR

It just wasn't fun. A chinaman hacked my account one day when I was like level 40 and I didn't even bother to get it back until a year or so later.

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>>386828895
A lot of my friends got their accounts hacked by some chinks. When he got his account back, he was level 80 and was somehow below the map. Go figure

>>386829085
>and was somehow below the map
That was always pretty fucking easy. When I got bored of the game and finished all the jumping puzzles I made it my goal to break out of every single area. That's how fucking boring this game is.

>>386824005
Am I missing something? While leveling up the one and only thing there is to do are the fucking hearts. And 3-4 piss poor dungeons. Isnt there anything else to do to level up? no more options? Im already bored of doing the same.

>>386827118
Wildstar being "hardcore" was far from the only reason why it flopped. It was handled by incompetents, ran like shit on the average system (the UI STILL makes the game perform worse and replacing it with player mods makes the game run better), had a questionable art style and an atmosphere like a Saturday morning cartoon that was trying too hard, but most importantly, missed its release window and came out right after the consumer had become exhausted with WoW-style MMOs and was ready for something new.

I played the game. There's a lot to like about it. But it was absolutely not an accident that it flopped. A tragedy, but no accident.

>>386827813
It has fantastic world design and moving around is fun. The jumping puzzles and hidden areas are the best part of the game. Sadly that's all they managed to get right.

>>386824005
Let's ignore GW1 for a bit.

GW2 is frontloaded as hell. It wasn't "good at launch" so much as it was "good when you launch it". I genuinely think it has the most enjoyable opening hours of any MMO I've ever played.
The combat feels great, without falling into the "action MMO" trap that so many games do where they scale like shit to high levels. The first few times you do dynamic events, it's really cool since you're stumbling onto things and you feel some more impact compared to the ones in other MMOs. Initially it does feel like your story with how you pick a backstory and go through these quests. When you realize how much impact you can have on the opening dungeons without needing a tank or a healer, it feels good. It's nice having structured PvP you don't need to grind for, and WvWvW is huge and exciting.

But that's it. It's over. Everything worth experiencing in GW2 is loaded into the early game, and there's no satisfying progression in any way. Not in grinding out levels, not in opening up more options, not in developing your playing skill. To make matters worse, ANet's handling of content is fucking ridiculous so it's hard to appreciate the game even if you can stand stagnancy on the player's side, and as you know more you see through all the little trappings of the game more easily.

Forget GW1, the team set out to make a game for "people who don't like MMOs" and took it a little bit too far here.

>>386829996
Nigga, when was the last time you played GW2? So many people base their opinions on launch as if the game hasn't changed since then in five years.

>>386824005
It's what happens when a developers hijacks the name of the previous installment yet has almost nothing to do with the previous game except for the story. The worst part isn't even that they didn't try to remake GW1, the worst part is that the entire Dev team that worked on GW1 didn't work on GW2.

>>386829996
That's wrong, it's actually the opposite.
There's such an immense difference between the vanilla content from release time and the new content at max level it's not even debatable.
I brought a newfriend to fractals last night for the first time and he was blown away, him who only played at release before that and didn't even know the game had actual working PvE dungeons working with the combat system, then he watched some raid encounters and he was amazed.
The only thing that's frontloaded is the shit part of the game, the one that lacks any sense of direction game design wise, and that's the big problem right there because Anet does an awful job at advertising the actually interesting parts of their game, they're still scared of their memento bullshit.

>>386829443
Events, crafting , just straight map exploration, everything gives exp, hearts are only there for WoW-babies so they don't get lost with too many options.

>>386830070
Sometimes that's all it takes. I'm not that guy, but that feeling of front loading made me lose all interest the few times I tried to play it over the first year.

Has all that changed? Is it infinitely that much better to warrant a retry? In the MMO field there rarely has been a moment where I try the game years later and go "Wow, this is better then I remember." It generally is "Yup, this feels about the same, still not interested."

>>386830529
The best re-try you can do is to test the demo of the new expansion that's happening this week-end, it should give you a good idea of what the game is like nowadays.
Everyone can take part in it even f2p players.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/get-ready-for-the-guild-wars-2-path-of-fire-preview-weekend/

>>386825874
>frog's analysis

you have my attention

>locked meta specs behind $60 paywall
>done it twice

>>386830804
$50 and then $30 paywall actually.

>>386830804
>expansion
>paywall

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What's your least favorite class?

>>386831072
thief

>>386830682
Thanks Mike'O'Brian, i'll take a look at Guild Wars 2™ © Path Of Fire™

Dev team mostly full of progressive wen straight out of art school and not a lot of actual programmers or game developers.

Same thing that happened to Bioware.

>>386831225
You're welcome, hopefully it stops clueless retards from posting outdated shit.

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It's amazing how little the people who complain about this game have actually played it since launch.
I mean surely, if you don't like it why continue?
But I think the game has genuinely improved so much with different ideas being focused on by a-net.
The lack of a holy trinity and the void that supposedly isn't filled is used to do interesting things like elite specs.
If the chronomancer didn't exist I would have probably dropped this game after a while, but it's so much more enjoyable to have multiple ways of responding to your enemy especially seeing how big attacks get giant aoe circles as a telegraph ever since Hearth of Thorns released.

Got to 65 before getting bored.
>bad story and writing
>hearts were neat for the first few hours but went to shit quickly
>dungeons were sparse and not very interesting
>combat animations are lackluster, most especially females'
>character models look lifted straight out of Second Life
>no trinity (at least from the content I could access)
>absolutely forgettable OST

Good things were the dynamic events and it was free but that's pretty much it.

>>386831626
Go into pvp or wvw, try that out until you have enough tomes to get to lvl 80, then do fractals and everything else you can do with a free account.
Then post your opinion.
>Absolutely forgettable OST
How can somebody be so wrong?

What went wrong is that the movie studios realized they can make infinitely more money by creating garbage movies for the unending millions of tasteless Chinese drones than by creating unique and worthwhile cinema.

For every MMO player discerning enough to appreciate gems like Guild Wars there are fifty faggots and children who are willing to eat up every WoW clone and play apologist.

>>386831728
I love the game too but I wouldn't recommend anyone to level through pvp unless pvp is what they want to do.

>>386831998
Sure, but the rewards do encourage players to at least try it. I mostly don't even have to bother lvling passed 40 because of the tomes I collect, even tho I'm mostly a PvE player.

I'm willing to give it another go. What's the most fun class? I want the best first impression.

>>386831728
I don't wanna force myself, anon. I got bored and that is my opinion.

>How can somebody be so wrong?
Post the top tracks, because I seriously can't hum anything from the game after playing it to 65 a month ago.

>>386830871
Ok
>>386830993
>expansion
An expansion is now 1 pvp map and specs? and worth $50? idc for baby PvE content.

>>386832073
I'm in the same boat.
If minion master necro is a thing and is viable I'll give it a shot.

>>386826497
>>386826535
>t. giant retards who never played guild wars

>>386832084
I mean, I don't think hummability is a good standard for vidya music, but here are some of my faves.
https://youtu.be/BVnPiLi8vOo
https://youtu.be/QtvnP91PDfQ
https://youtu.be/yuvX26LfjGg
I think that gw2 is so far ahead with sound design in comparison to other mmo's. Not just music, but everything.

>>386832125
If you look from just a PvP perspective most expansions in most MMOs nowadays would seem extremely lacking.

>>386832191
>t. butthurt gw1 vet who hates things when they change

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>>386832238
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4l987JxY1w
I'm a fan of this one

>>386832365
Oh man, so many great tracks I never bothered to listen to outside the game. Thanks anon!

>>386831728
>>386832238
I really felt that Soule was just hamming it up for the majorty of GW2's soundtrack, to be honest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UniOGEmUZQ
After my 500 hours of playing, this is the only track I can remember that wasn't just a holdover track from GW1.

GW1's soundtrack on the other hand, every single Prophecies track stands out firmly in my mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mc0OSVrhoE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdHODxdBSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6BoKfo_XXA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvdHODxdBSU

>>386832464
Shit, posted ToT twice. Here's Tasca's Demise, another standout track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfxC8wxrXQY

>>386829623
>A tragedy, but no accident.
As someone who only heard about it like a month before relase, impulse bought it and played for about 2 months after release: 'tragedy' is -not- a word I would use for this pile of garbage. It's not even about the atrociously autistic artstyle, 'humor' or retarded minigames they shoved into fucking everything, though that certainly didn't help. No, what pissed me off more than anything, made me drop it in disgust and makes me smile whenever I see bad news about it were the people involved in it. The sheer amount of arrogance, delusion and unwarranted selfimportance the devs showed combined with the reddit echochamber formed from hordes of fanatical bootlickers they listened to because they treated them like some kind of rockstar and lashed out at anyone that voiced criticism like they were strangeling their child is what drove me and I guess many others, away in disgust.

>>386832156
It's viable as a leveling spec, and somewhat okay-ish at high level.

>>386832238
I meant that if the OST were anywhere near memorable, I could hum some tracks. Can't agree on your opinions om the game, but hey the tracks you posted are nice. Have some Aion.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=KHu8DSBDpH4

>>386832464
Well, gw1's soundtrack was really good as well, but I think that sound design wise gw2 is leagues ahead.
Maybe the compositions feel a bit flat in comparison, but the quality really helped with immersion imo.

>>386832464
>Logan's Joruney
basically the game's theme song honestly. I remember this being in my heads for years between when I dropped and picked the game up again

When I played it it had just come out, there simply was no end game, you had some dungeons sure but not many, the main one being with the airship as I recall. But outside of those few there was nothing to do except grind for some rep gear. If there is something I hate then it is grinding reputation.

>>386832640
The game hasn't really lost any of it's grinding feel but there is genuine end-game content by the boatloads now.

>>386824005
Nothing it's way more popular than GW1, it's still alive and well after more than 5 years and will likely still be alive in 5 years with more expansions coming. So nothing objectively went wrong.

What went wrong is that they made a MMORPG as sequel for a CORPG but that was just the dev listening to the majority of the players instead of the vocal minority.

>>386828347
The difference lies in you being able to combine any skills with any skills in GW1, whereas GW2 has predetermined slots for their entire bar. If I wanted to forgo self preservation with my build and not use a self healing skill, the option to do that doesn't even exist.

It's not just the number of skills (the only class with more skills than its GW1 counterpart is Elementalist), but the fact that you could combine different skills in pretty much any way and any order you want. The variety available to you enabled you to make any number of builds, all of which could potentially fill their own niche.

When I think about coming back to the game, I'm reminded that there is a non-trivial amount of content that is now locked behind the cash shop because they have the dumbest method of releasing patches conceivable.

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>>386832464
Too much of GW2's soundtrack is atmospheric and forgettable, contrasted with bombastic action scores. Soule has been phoning it in for a while and running theme in GW2 is the Norn motif from the first game. I think the expansion has a much more memorable soundtrack in comparison. Courtesy of a different composer doing it and I especially like the theme with proper buildup and payoff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtvnP91PDfQ

>>386832821
I agree, HoT's soundtrack was significantly more memorable then core tyria ever was. Can't wait to see how PoF will do.

>>386832745
Thing is that's not how at all it worked in GW1 because so many skills were useless, though. Sure, you had your novelty and fun builds, but meta still just boiled down the generous skills count to more than manageable figures.

>>386832821
Soule didn't do the score for Heart of Thorns?

I'm not sure how to feel about that. That seems very strange.

This is a decent track, though. Maybe when I have some time and money, I'll look into HoT.

>>386824005
>Terrible class balance
>Literally the most imbalanced fucking dungeons out of any mmo that you would literally never find a group for most of them
>Temporary content for an entire season centered around a shit character

The pve and story were so fucked for the longest time I doubt they could put it back together with two expansions.

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>>386832929
>Still basing your opinion of the game on 3 year old content.

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>>386824005
You can do FAR worse than GW2. The Old Republic, in comparison, is just a cookie cutter MMORPG with a Star Wars skin, for example.

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>>386824005

Simpliest way it could be put: Wrong people left the studio and the wrong people were brought in.

>>386832913
Well a big name like Soule costs a lot more and considering all the other corners that were cut/delayed etc. shows just what greedy jews Anet are.

>>386832821
Well, now you have me listening to the HoT soundtrack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH1IQ_fZjto This is a very lovely track. Now I'm interested, and really wasn't before.

>>386832973
Maybe if the game was good back then it would have more players.

>>386832995
SWTOR is okay if you really want a third KotOR game and do not treat it like an MMO at all.

This isn't just me saying this, either. This is how the game's entire playerbase feels.

>It's been 13 years since World of Warcraft irreparably ruined the MMO genre

Keep in mind the people defending GW2 literally weren't old enough to read when Guild Wars came out

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I have to say, the HoT areas are loads of fun to explore. I love the verticality of them

>>386832745

And then they stifled build variety even further by limiting the selection of traits for no good reason before releasing their shitty "elite" specs.

>>386832891

Except that meta wasn't the answer to everything, there was plenty of room to screw around with builds and find something

>>386833087
Maybe if you actually knew how the game worked you would know the megaserver system makes it so that all maps are always populated and you would know that nobody plays dungeons anymore, because fractals exist.
Outdated opinions in this thread are so mis-informed.

>>386832891
The meta still managed to have more variety than in GW2 though. Hell, the last patch with GW2 managed to completely shit on Necromancer just by changing one trait. The point is that options give people breathing room to deal with a shifting meta. Every time a major build was nerfed, someone would already be coming up with something completely different to shake up the meta again.

It was a hell of a lot more interesting than the HoT meta which barely changed across the course of two years.

>>386833098
I think that's really the problem with TOR is that it's just a mediocre game in every respect. Hell, Bioware pretty much decided to forget it was a MMORPG for the last two expansion and went full story mode because that's the only audience still playing.

>>386828001
No, the same guy who does balancing for gw2, destroyed the gw1 balancing as soon as gw2 released, none of the old fun builds work and everything is nerfed.

>>386832973
>t. assdamaged arenashill

Which of those problems (and more) are fixed by now then?

Oh, none of them? Okay.

>>386833160
>YEAH LOL NOBODY PLAYS DUNGEONS BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL GARBAGE LOL

Masterfully retarded.

>>386833024
The soundtrack has actually improved since Soule left, as people have stated his work on the GW2 soundtrack wasn't very good.

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>>386833160
>nobody plays dungeons anymore
I have to say, this really is a pain in the ass when trying to get those dungeon achievements

>>386832238
I agree that the game's sound design is 10/10, I sometime leave it running in the background while doing other things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxGvag-466I
https://youtu.be/Oadp3nW01G8?t=152
https://youtu.be/sI_Drokblp0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LclGKm9I5uE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRC1PCMsDYI

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>>386833160
abandoning dungeons is the single worst mistake arena net has done in terms of just dumping existing content. fractals have completely overtaken them, but now those old dungeons are just kinda there and completely unused unless you feel like doing a story run with friends. I'm also really hard-pressed to remember anything from them.

>>386833397
They weren't very good. Fractals are better overall.

>>386833160
I know that nobody plays dungeons because rhey are all fucking bad like I said retard.

>>386833280
Eh, if you're in a big guild (which you can join 5 of) you can always ask around for people to help. Running CoF with a bunch of random people on discord to get exotic berserker armor is a lot more fun then doing it with pugs who sometimes don't understand the mechanics. And if you don't know them there's always somebody in the party who does.

>>386833134
Things weren't fucked until dungeon finder was introduced, four years after WoW's initial launch. And that is what killed the genre.

Before that WoW was just a more casual DAoC.

>>386833397
Nothing of value was lost. GW2's dungeons weren't good. Nobody liked doing them. They were long, boring, and unfun.

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Anyone else feel like Path of Fire is a glorified content patch? I mean, new zones are nice and all, but replacing HoT's new profession hook with "here, have these mounts" is not really good enough for me.

>>386833024
>what is a publisher

>>386833565

Which was because the neo-ANet developers are shit who don't even play their own game.

>>386824005
ignoring everything that made Guild Wars 1 good

>>386833605
I'm actually glad they're focusing on content in this expansion, seeing how HoT was almost one giant system rework. They don't have to work on that anymore, they only have to expand it.
Comfy desert exploration and changing the way movement around the game works is enough for me.

>>386833605
We have new elite specs and mounts vs gliders, its literally the same basis for HoT. They have 3 of each armor class and adding more classes would mean a new class + 2 elite specs to balance.

where are my Anvil Rock lads at

>>386833026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvt3u3Yxjbo

>>386833605
I think it's a problem because they've clearly transitioned the living story system into expansion extension. Heart of Thorns was also lightweight, but when you take into account new zones and story introduced in six episodes that followed it becomes a lot more fleshed out.

>>386825965
this was exactly how i felt about the game, beta and release was perfect. the very first content update was fucking atrocious and clearly showed how shit it's future was going to be, i stopped playing shortly after fractal dungeons were released

>>386833397
It's true it's a mistake to leave them in the state they are but it would be a ton of work to re-make them like they did with AC, and it's time that can be used to make new relevant content.

>>386833813
Very moody. Kinda reminds me of the Kurzick theme from Factions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NmPGCIa340

>5 years later
>still cannot rebind 1-5 hotbar keys
10/10 outstanding work

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>>386830682
I'll check it out.

Apparently you can make straight level 80 of any class too for the weekend

>>386834103
This weekend is a mount testing and next weekend is new elite specs

>>386825965
>buggy, unbalanced mess with lies & broken promises out the ass

Nah.

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>>386834028
?

>>386833881
I'll just repeat what the devs said back in the day but HoT introduced a lot of systems that probably took ages to implement due to having to reverse engineer the engine and shit. The goal was to have a solid base to speed up the release of new content, so hopefully PoF is as content heavy as HoT was feature heavy.

>>386826198
That was my main problem with the game. PvP gets boring fast for me and in terms of PvE let's just say other than fractals there's not much. I do not own HoT tho and haven't done raids but the game kinda didn't click for me.

>>386834162
Yes, you can "hard-rebind" your weapon skill keys but this also affects your second weapon's hotbar in a way you don't want to. I can't for example rearrange both my weapon's hotbars so whatever skill I use for movement is on 5 on both and so on.

>>386834103
Yes, and next week-end you'll be able to test the new specs for each class in PvP. The one coming is more focused on PvE and the new features.

>>386834227
True, it becomes muscle memory at some point though, especially since the skills are ordered based on their cooldown.

>>386827082
I only started playing a couple months ago, but my ranger feels far more overpowered than any other class I've played.

>>386827903
A lot of people complain about water combat, so that's probably why.

>>386830395
This. I leveled by pretty much just fucking around.

>>386834938
It'd be cool if the scaling up worked in HoT so I could just do meta events to level.

>>386834803
The problem was that water combat required you to swap to a second headpiece and weapon which was usually shit, not to mention that a good chunk of your skills get disabled when you're submerged and rangers are literally invulnerable underwater.

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>>386827903
The combat system doesn't translate that well into 3D.
I honestly don't mind as I love underwater environments but the combat is lacking in depth compared to ground combat, can't blame them but I wish they went with the easier method of giving you the same skills on ground and underwater right from the start.

>>386833387
As someone with insomnia, I wish there was an hour long version of that first video. Very calming.

>>386825965
how was release good?

Zero features for pvp side of things, balance was not good at geared towards warriors and thieves with quickness.

Spotted the ESO player.

When are they actually releasing the Commando class? This is crucial

>>386835326
Different anon but ESO player here, how does that leap of logic even work?

>>386824005
Graphics are shit
WvW is just random aoe spamming
Dungeon are shit because there's no heal/tank/dps

Pretty much everything.

PvP is a mess. WvW is a zergfest despite its best intentions. The jumping puzzles are more enjoyable than the combat. The lack of trinity REALLY didn't help. The zones weren't very unique other than the actual major cities. Personal stories were boring.

I tried giving it another go about a year ago nothing had changed.

Some nice artwork in there at least.

>>386835373
seeing as there are 3 classes per armor type i don't see it happening any time soon.

>>386835457
Vanilla hasn't changed much, the huge leap in quality starts with HoT.

>>386835413
ESO players are insecure so they shitpost in other better games' threads.

>>386825882
That and 90% of the spells don't make sense, feel shit to use and aren't 'meaningfully' different from the other spells.

Every spell seems to be some random combination of useless effects and damage.

"Shoot gun" - You fire a shot that slows the the target by an undocumented amount for 0.5 seconds, your pet becomes 1% stronger for 2 seconds, your CD tray ejects, and you gain 'might' which increases your damage by an undocumented amount for 2 seconds.

It's fucking awful.

The combat basically boils down to 'make sure all 4 of your spells are on cooldown all the time'.

>>386835617
ESO and GW2 are both decent MMOs though.

>>386835580
How so? What changed if anything?

>>386833098
>SWTOR is okay if you really want a third KotOR game and do not treat it like an MMO at all.

No it is not. It's the perfect example of the illusion of choice in a stupidly made up game.

>>386826179
>>In early open beta when overworld mobs and event bosses were actually a threat
That's because nobody knew how to play and was a low level shitter
>mobs would attempt to get out of AoEs
Never happened

Also the current latest content is much more difficult, not VERY hard, but it is very possible to die roaming the latest open world zones.
And don't even get me started on fucking Maguuma where mushroom mobs can 2-shot you if you're squishy.

Most "WANT WENT WRONG BREHS" shitposters have absolutely no fucking idea what they're talking about. The rest are retarded nostalgiafags.

>>386835701
Map design, events, the class specializations, fractals, the raids, the everything.
It's hard to explain to someone who's only seen the vanilla game, but it's like they magically figured out how their game and combat system worked. Give the week-end beta a try.

>>386827023
This.

The game has the best art design I've ever seen in an MMO.

Preview when?

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>>386835927
Post the list of all the MMOs you have played.

>>386835994
today! starts in 5 hours apparently

>>386835052
>a good chunk of your skills get disabled when you're submerged
Fuck this shit, seriously. I haven't played in a while but dear god it felt like 99% of the skills from the new specialisations were disabled underwater, complete trash design.

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>>386835638
>undocumented
What are you talking about?

STOP THE BIGOTRY;BUY GW2 AND ALL ITS EXPANSIONS NOW!

>>386835852
the mastery system is definitely a big one

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>>386835852
GW2's problem from day 1 was really the struggle to convey some points to its player base and eventually just having to dumb them down or remove in the notion it will make the game more approachable. I still remember Chinese release and first systems update that removed basically anything that wasn't "kill X" or "collect Y" from starter zones so as not to confuse new players. Hell, heart quests were a concessions in the first place because most players had no idea what to do after the tutorial. Let's not even go into combat and combo fields that good number of players probably wasn't even aware they existed.

GW1 was perfect because it wasn't a MMO, but rather a CORPG, there was a definite end to the game and you could get a sense of accomplishment in doing so.

>GW1
You can slap together literally any skill build and it will work, goddamnit it will work
>GW2
Whoops, you didn't pick one of the two or three viable builds for your class, you don't get to win today

>>386832519
I want to go back ;_;

>>386831728
>how can somebody be so wrong?
the original game's soundtrack is 90% shit. Soule just aped skyrim to the point I literally can't tell the difference between some of the tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1amC0rsLJM4
first time I heard this I legitimately thought he'd stolen it straight from skyrim
at least HoT had some memorable tracks

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>>386835064
For the problem is I always forget to upgrade my weapon, and I still don't know what the fucking moves do most of the time.
But the underwater environments can be really nice in this game. Great music and ambience, too.

>>386831869
That's actually really damn good animation.

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I've been going back to GW1 lately, is there a /v/ guild (Luxon) I could join?

>>386832238
Yeah, gw2 doesn't have simple earworms. Just tasty classical infused melodies.
Shit, I get songs I hate stuck in my head and end up humming them. "Come on Barbie let's go party" and such.

>>386836656
I like underwater parts because they're usually completely ignored in MMORPGs with maybe some clams or shit to loot.

>>386832519
Meh, I don't really like it to be honest and I love the score in gw2. Let me check out the others.

>>386835373
Next expansion they'll come out with the commando Elite spec for engineer.

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I like how anet claimed that they buffing power reaper this patch only to remove the only two good traits that made it semi-viable to be replaced with shittier new versions all because of scourge balancing.

Well fuck you too Anet, now core necro and reaper is even more irrelevant

>>386832464
Yeah, after listening to them all halfway through, I'm going to say gw2 has a vastly better soundtrack. Those grainy sounding, overly tinny horns were killing me. The best song there got ported to gw2 anyways.

>>386837421
if you think you're bad power warrior got nerfed so hard that it's now a damage loss to use berserker
I think there's like one obscure mesmer build that does less damage than power warrior now

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>>386828282
>Let's conveniently forget 80% of GW1 skills were useless

I think it's a game design thing anon, There's two branches to this:
1) Treat your game design like lego blocks. You provide the player the tools to do stuff, and they assemble those tools in unpredictable ways and derive entertainment from the crazy amount of combinations. This is real character building and discovery. PoE and GW1 is a good example of this.

2) Treat your game design like a toy army-man in a shooting pose, You can slip in different weapons into his hands. This is the wrong way to do character building in any game except ones in which character building is a tiny part of the game. eg. This works well in CoD, this works well games like Need for speed where your car can have extra boost in one round, and the next round you can swap that for more weight (ie based on map choice or something).


Sometime in the last 5-10 years game developers got these two ideas messed up. I'm going to blame Activision's take over of Blizzard for this. Just around the time Activision bought Blizzard, they turned the WoW talent system (which was already limited but atleast a little lego-y) into.. basically the call of duty weapon attachment system.

This happened with Diablo 3 as well, and even starcraft's campaign went into the "pick 1 of 3 things for this mission" mode. (albiet Starcraft's campain was probably most suited to this style).

Other games started doing it as well, and here we are in 2017 where so many games come out with the 'toy soldier' style of character building. It's shallow, boring and should be limited to games where the character is 'reset' every round or every play session. (Counterstrike/CallofDuty/NeedforSpeed).

It should be kept far FAR away from any persistent RPG game.

>>386826497
You have to understand that being an enthusiast MMO player you are already in the league of people who cannot compete in pure skill-based competitive multiplayer games.

To that sort of person, more buttons means a more hardcore experience. Low IQ makes that a challenge.

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>>386837497
>Mfw I'm new and just bought a power exotic greatsword for my warrior

>>386837562
Yeah, the problem with this is that sooner or later meta builds will come into existence, making skills that are not contained in any meta irrelevant.

I myself am I big fan of using shit-tier skills just for the giggles. But let's be honest. It wouldn't be a tragedy i they were gone.

GW2 has those as well. Raceskills eg.

>>386837497

Hardly surprising considering 90% of the berserkers I see in PvP run longbow/mace and shield with condi stats now

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>>386837720
You got the weapon skin and that's what matters.

>>386832191
>t. giant retard who happens to have played gw1

>>386837497
>power warrior got nerfed so hard that it's now a damage loss to use berserker
I'm not saying it's a good change or anything but elite specs shouldn't be 100% better than core classes. Just look at engi.

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>>386837736
Racial skills were sadly doomed from the beginning to be neutered into flavor choices because they'd otherwise be too much of a game changer for builds.

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>>386824005
The horrible balance is what really soured the game for me, really. I played the game from release for 2 years practically every day, and then usual MMO burnout coupled with ANET's small but consistent fuckups and lack of communication made me drop it.

Then HoT came out, fiddled with it a bit (loved the focus on exploration in the new areas), but dropped it again because life and other stuff.
Fast forward some months, decide to come back and get into high end PvE: craft full ascended armor, study the meta build, start looking on what days there were training groups in EU. Then:
>Tuesday patch rolls out
>Go to Necro section
>"Here's some unsubstantial buffs to axe"
>"Trait number tweaking"
>"Axe auto does 1,73% more damage"
>"Oh yeah, fuck the horrors in Lich form"

Sapped all the will I had to come back. I just want to play the class I like and don't be complete deadweight, is that too much to ask Anet?

>>386837736
meta is unavoidable, and that is the big challenge to game developers.

BUT, going 180 degrees the other way and killing character building entirely is misguided.

At that point you have to ask, if you want to build an RPG with hotswappable skills..between each fight.. Why not just make a battle arena or FPS round-based shooter?

Where exactly is the RPG elements and character customisation whenever every member of a class (or god forbid the entire game)... has the option to play like every other member at a second's notice?

Where is the investment into the character? The exploration? Where is the crazy guy that rigged his character to cast 50 spells when he takes damage... and then proceeds to add lifesteal to those spells... and causes SELF-damage by drinking an apparently 'shit tier' potion put into the game that hurts the user on drinking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY3FAwPAeqI

>>386828347
Builds in GW1 needed to maximise button effectivness.

GW2 literally has like 15 skills as cooldowns. Best example I can think of is Warrior.

Warriors were one of the best control and close range support classes in GW1.

in GW2, they're either Zerker DPS or Mightstacker.

Warriors are supposed to be the masters of Physical skills, but Arenanet fucked that area up so much Warriors have no fucking direction anymore.

>>386837736
I use the racial elite skills all the time, and the sylvari healing seed is dank.

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Not in my entire lifetime have I played a MMORPG that is as braindead as GW2 is.

WvW is about zerging, Conquest is based on builds rather than skill, you simply rush through the PvE content...

ENOUGH! It pains me so to think there are people who genuinely find GW2 a great MMO.

>>386838054

Warband support actually makes me pretty fuckin' sad. I ain't no furry but being to summon your warband buddies on the fly to help out in battle is fucking awesome. Sadly All you get is like 30 seconds for a 5 minute cooldown, shit's ridiculous.

>>386827175
>See this new Elite specialization?
>it turns you into Thieves.

>>386825716
I have a 40 man raiding guild on a shitty private server with 1k pop cap and the people in are pretty good mostly. Literally no excuse

>>386838050
no what I mean is you can use the berserker elite spec but using the berserk button (basically the core mechanic) is now so worthless that it causes you to lose damage

>>386828214
Warrior/Ranger or Ranger Warrior was always good for energy regen plus shouts/physical skills.

Everybody loved a Bunnythumper.

>>386838054
>One of the biggest cultural things of Norns is becoming one with the spirit animals.
>Every racial is fucking useless.

>>386838202
It's saved my ass a few times.

>>386829713
>fantastic world design
What MMOs have you played? One of the worst parts about GW2 is how fake the world feels like. It does not feel alive, maps are just check points. There are no towns or characters scattered around that have a unique identity, just houses placed here and there, and most attached zones feel just the same.

>>386838050
The point of Berserker was to be focusing the Warrior for DPS and physical skills at the cost of Boon/group utility.

They then nerfed the damage and literally none of the Physical skills for Warrior is useful so Berserker is basically pointless.

They basically have no Direction for Warriors see the Spellbreaker.

They literally could have done Paragon who focused on Utility, but no, they're magical spellbreakers now.

>>386838424

They're pretty great in a pinch, especially the rifleman since he throws out mines but I just hate timed summons in general. Especially in this game, 30 seconds is pathetic. Make them all permanent or something like the necro minions

>>386838568
But Spellbreaker is exactly what you said earlier, a melee control spec.

GW2 has the best open world design of any MMO ever.

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>>386838058
>MMO burnout coupled with ANET's small but consistent fuckups and lack of communication made me drop it

Same deal. Never bought HoT though. Fuck the first elementalist dual dagger nerfs to oblivion. That was one of the most fun things I've played in an mmo.

Still played after that too though.

>>386838843
>Melee control spec
>Based around fucking MAGIC SPELLS

When you have to turn the Warrior into a magic person, you have failed at the Warrior class identity.

Go look at the Spellbreaker, tell me what's the difference between that and a Guardian now?

They should have gone with paragon and given us the Staff.

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Im going to play it again and give it a chance since I played like 2 years before and doesnt catch me too much, anyone wants to join me?

>>386838936
They're physical spells born from meditation.
I see why you're angry, but I love that theme myself, I have a hard-on for physical spells.

>>386838513
I agree with the other guy, I found exploration a blast and plenty of interesting things that aren't marked at all. Little fungeons, interesting characters and such.

>>386831072
In the original game ?
Probably warrior or monk

>>386839081
>They're physical spells born from meditation
>Physical SPELLS

So they're Guardian Spells. Hell, even the Paragon wasn't magic outside of their Anthems I guess.

>>386839097
It did irk me that you can't enter that town in queensdale, though. I assume its reserved for living world in the future or something.

>>386838843
>>386838936
>>386839081
>>386839242
>why is a warrior learning denial mesmer type of magic
>why would a warrior decide to learn silencing spells after getting pissed off at eles and mesmers being dickheads
>why is warrior not purely physical
elite specs change some shit about the class. base warrior is still a physical attacks only class, but spellbreaker is a warrior that got tired of magical bullshit, particularly in pvp

>>386838513
>It does not feel alive, maps are just check points
Because you treat them as such.
There's some guy at Anet whose job is to populate the maps with those hundred npcs, write all their random chatters and make them move around and such yet you chose to ignore all of that, even events themselves have a shit ton of dialogues. I really disagree with you on that, you can't go anywhere without hearing npcs talk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSXWsQniYOk&t=2s

>>386839448
>Spellbreaker is New Arenanet not being able to make a new Warrior specialisation without breaking the Warrior's design ethos.

Literally, right there in the OG design for Warrior in GW1 was that.

Warriors are not magic. They use their brawn and wits to confound enemies and overpower them.

Spellbreaker is proof the retards at Arenanet cannot continue that without breaking the design.

>>386839448
It's funny really. PoF basically removes half of what made Warriors unique; Stances.

And Ironically, The new Ranger and Elementalist actually get REAL STANCES, while Warriors do literally nothing with them.

Meditations are fucking worthless.

>>386839835
>Warrior stances
>Gain X boon

>New Stances
>Do X thing, then gain X when you do Y over the course of the stance

>>386824005
The living storylines.

Putting side the fact that living storylines were a retarded idea to start with (why the fuck would anyone focus this much on temporary content in a persistent game?), all of their writers nowadays are incompetent fan-fiction level retards more concerned with their precious Mary Sue OCs than with writing a story that players would actually give a shit about.

I played GW2 for more than a year after release and despite its many flaws I still enjoyed it. But once it became clear that the living storylines would become their main focus I just lost all motivation to keep going.

>>386832365
I will never get tired of chak gerent solely for the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGR2Us48HJY


Fuck Tangled Depth though, worse map to traverse than fucking china.

>>386835820
You're a stupid cunt.

>>386840014
>Unique things to Warrior in base GW2

>Physical Skills
>Stances
>Shared shouts with Guardian and Ranger

>Unique things to Warrior now
>Literally nothing, it's just a Guardian with banners and orange particle effects.

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>>386826274
She was let go. That terrible "writer".

Most of the dev team has been either moved or let go a few months ago, those making the expansion are new.

>>386839516
Please tell in-depth stories of entire zones that have intriguing plot twists and story progression attached to them. You can't, because there is none.

The entire writing of GW2 is pure shit. NPCs spout unbelievable nonsense and the leaders of the factions (in the main story) bigger with each other like children, like most other characters in the game.

It's sad.

Have they done anything to unfuck the leather situation? It's been a while since I played but I wanted to push some crafting skills but the leather prices were just ridicolous.

>>386839448
>Just make a Sunspear inspired Warrior spec with consecration based skills on gaining ground and taking battlefield advantages.

>Can have things like a Conc, that deals damage with more people in it and call it "Against the odds"

>NAH BRO JUST GIVE THEM MAGIC SPELLS

>>386840545
Hardened leather?Yes its cheaper now :https://www.gw2tp.com/item/19732-hardened-leather-section

>>386840545
I bought 2 stacks of the Tier 6 leather when they were really really cheap, and throw it inside my personal guild bank.

I didn't think of crafting till i gotten a precursor last year from the Mystic Toilet.

>>386840751
How does the Mystic toilet work?

>>386840738
That's at least something, mightat least finish it to 400.

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>>386824005

All I know is that I played the fuck out of GW1 and loved it, and younger naive me honestly expected GW2 to be one of the best MMOs, if not one of the best games ever. I waited for years and it finally came out, I played it for a week and never touched it again.

GW2 was what basically destroyed my faith in games and the industry.

>>386840662
I mean unless they're revamping the boon system for PvE, I don't see how removing boons is useful outside of being slightly annoying in PvP.

So the crystal desert shit hasn't actually started yet?

>>386841317
no

>>386831072
Engi, it seems that no matter how much I try to improve my playstyle, the only way to deal borderline decent damage is spamming grenades.
Hopefully Holosmith(?) fixes that.

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>>386841205
>slightly annoying in PvP.
>slightly
The entire PvP meta relies on spamming boons and conditions, the spellbreaker has this huge bubble that removes all boons and conditions on 10 enemies, it's incredibly strong and could destroy zergs in WvW by stripping stability.

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>>386841798
>tfw SMC defense with 5 spellbreakers sitting by you to abuse on chokepoints or lord
I can already taste the salt

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Is GW2 the despacito of MMOs?

>>386840509
I think 50/50.

If you listen to the NPC dialog sometimes it's far more interesting than even the main story of the game.

Which would be fine if it was like witcher and made the NPC dialog actually lead to meaningful progression.. but it doesn't.. they're just aesthetics and if your lucky one in 20 of them will have an event tied to them.

The main-story writting though is the biggest sin this game makes.

There are no twists, no commentary about anything, the good guys are pompous faggots, the bad guys are saturday morning cartoon villains.


"Il'l save you m'lady, youl'l NEVER get away with this!'

"You will be defeattedd, hero!"

"Thank you for saving me!"

it's really really pathetic. Swap the guy who writes the side-NPC dialog with the main quests... and we might actually get interesting storylines about the side effects of the Asura experimenting on Skritt etc.

>>386831072
Everything that isn't Engi, Ele, Thief, and to a lesser extent Rev. Those four the only ones with more skills/more interesting gameplay mechanics. This game's biggest enemy is boredom, and how repetitive the game gets. Why neo-Anet abandoned the low cooldown skills with a fast recharging energy pool idea I will never understand.

>>386842597
>Both ESO and GW2 suffer from the main story being absolute dog shit while the side stories are much more varied and interesting
Why does this happen.

>>386842676
Gotta appeal to the least common denominator. Children and retards play this game, you can't have complex motives, morally gray characters, or in-depth plots.

>>386842597
There was not a single story, not main or side one, that I found interesting while playing the game. Everything was bland and boring as you just described.

>>386842676
Is less of a risk to implement a side-quest rather than a main story;you could just deactivate it.

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>>386824005
I'll tell you OP, XIV and WoW are better.

>>386843163
The only thing FFXIV has going for it is presentation of encounters and its soundtrack.

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can someone post the tranny raid dev pic?

>>386843482
Achievement designer to raid designer

The game is slowly turning into GW1 with LS3 and now PoF. Let's hope things don't switch again when they change lead designers.

>>386843678
That is a lie, and one specifically designed to make fans of the original upset. Why would you do such a thing?

MMO are a dying breed.

>>386843236
And GW2 has....?

>>386842927
>https://youtu.be/oSXWsQniYOk?t=272
@4:32.

Two sylvari approach a charr and ask him about his experiences in war.

He starts going on about the blood and gore, and how it's not all glory.

He then says something stupid "yeah it's fun".. instead they could've twisted this about him having PTSD (social commentary).

and that there's an assasins guild that are after him (possibly from the enemies he killed during the war)..

The twist would be that one of the queens advisors is funding the assasin guild to pick off ex-soldiers because them walking around telling stories about the realities of the war is hurting recruit numbers...


But instead of that we get
"IM THE HERO MOVE ASIDE GOOD SIR"

"I am the villain I WILL NOT MOVE ASIDE!"

Dialog that probably belongs in the Toy-story series when the kid is playing with the toys.

>>386824005
They said we wouldn't have to grind.

But you still have to grind.

>>386844565
Content that isn't made entirely useless by the next patch for one, fractals are still useful today. ARR dungeons are completely useless and god forbid you get them in the leveling roulette and lose 50% of your toolkit.

action camera is the best way to play this game. Makes it feel a lot different

>>386844948
>content that isn't made entirely useless
Because all the content is useless, there is zero progression and no incentive to do anything.

>>386845082
You need to have all your current equipment made routinely useless to feel any drive to complete content?

>>386838196
Don't play BDO then.

Are there any MMOs that have all of the following
>fun combat
>challenging, hype boss battles
>a well made world that's actually worth exploring with shit to find

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>>386845536
heh, you're in the right thread

>>386845536
you're looking for a single player game

>>386845387
Not necessarily but doing a new bland story every 4 months for an hour with no rewards is what kills or bores your playerbase to death. If you're not an achievement grinder the game has absolutely nothing to keep you playing after you've done the new shit.

PvE was boring. There are no quests, but what they replaced quests with were equally boring. Making a group for dungeons was impossible for a while. When a group maker was actually put in,it became difficult to find a party outside of the ruins of Ascalon.
I've never really been into PvP so I can't judge that.
WvW basically just devolves into waiting for a mob and Zerg Rushing objectives and waiting for loot. Lucrative, but it get's dull after so long.
What pisses me off more than anything is that weapon crafting is essentially pointless. If I gather resources, it's more lucrative just to sell them. If I make guns, swords, clothing, or anything else I operate at a loss. So It's better of I just sell the resources and buy the items I want instead of crafting them.

Unrelated, but I also think a lot of the higher level loot is guady looking. Once I found this Greatsword with blue flames on it, I basically just kept that skin and never changed it.

>>386844828
Charr enjoy fighting though, giving one ptsd would be like giving an ork from WH40k ptsd, fucking stupid and out of character.

>>386845991
Up until max level crafting is basically worthless. At that point, however, it flip flops. The stuff you craft becomes a lot more valuable. You can only get the best weapons in the game from crafting

>charr have tail clipping issues with mutiple armor pieces
>textures are just made for human models and then stretched out on charr
>some cosmetic aura are too small for the charr body and are almost invisible from a distance
>majority of armor pieces look awful on charr, so much to the point where it deters people from playing them
>shoulder pieces are over sized and tend to just hover above the model
>Anet will fix non of the issues because they consider it low priority and would rather pump out more skins
Why even make a fuckin beast race if you're going to treat it like that. Even if less than 20% of the playerbase has charr toon it's no excuse to just throw them under the bus and never put effort into fixing shit, those player she still exist. Even the fucking LEGENDARY armor of all things has tail clipping, the armor on the tale is just meant to mask it/distract you

>>386826102
>It wasn't GW1.5.
I can't tell if this is ironic or not, but it's absolutely correct. All I wanted out of GW2 was a z-axis, updated graphics, and new setting/characters.

i've been playing it on and off for the past few weeks because I'm poorfag and remembered I bought the game on release and don't need to pay a sub to play.
Enjoying it somewhat, I mean I'm doing shit I've already done but I like what they've done with the talents and specializations and stuff. I'm debating getting the expansions, but I don't know if it's worth 50USD for it all, as I am a massive poorfag kek but I don't wanna invest in a game I'll quit before max or that's just gonna die on me in less than a year.

>>386846268
>toon
FUCK OFF

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>>386846268
>toon

>>386846407
>literally triggered by words

Go back to tumblr faggot.

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>>386846268
>toon

LEMME JUST HOP ON MY CARTOON AND PLAY, GUYS

Fuck off and unironically hang yourself, faggot.

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>>386846268
>calling characters toons
god I hate neo /v/

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>>386846268
>calling your guy a toon

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>>386824005
The conspiracy is
>Gw1 devs design the game, hence why early game and beta were fun.
>NCsoft hires Nexon people for the cash shop
>Gw1 devs and Ncsoft/Nexon duke it out
>Gw1 devs leave one by one because of shit handling, crates, cash shop focus and general jewery.
>Before they leave they left behind clues in game and in the spaghetti code, ie; consortium the JP named "Under New Management" this also happened to be the time the game fell apart.
And thus all that was left was normalfags and degenerates like pic related.

>>386824005
Literally nothing. It's better than GW1, and the best MMO currently.

>>386845536
Nothing then?

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What the fuck did they do to Lion's Arch?

Holy fuck, what even is this design?

>>386847702
it actually surprised me when I found out how many people in game don't like it
90% of people think it looks like a fucking theme park piece of shit that no one would ever actually live in.
there's not even a big lion statue anymore and the only lion in the entire city is by the fractals portal

>>386847702
Wasn't here for old lions arch but yeah I was wondering why the bank was an octopus or the pier was a lobsyer

>>386836998
Fan Bingbing/10

>>386844828
I was expecting Minister Caudecus to be the leader of the Order of Whispers but instead he was just a generic "evil white male!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" GW2 story is shit.

>>386846237
Well then give the lines to a sylvari warrior or a human warrior or something.

The point is that we need quests with twists in it, and ones that don't always result in saving the world but doing small-time meaningful things that aren't just "please help me pick these apples".

>>386846385
Youl'l probably get bored of it in a week or two max.

Just remember the grind 80 has no mounts, no new interesting spells, no suprises, no story twists other than "Yargh im the hero!".

>>386849349
>implying you even get that when treeman and his saladbolg exist
>said characters appear out of fucking nowhere unless you played a salad
the story is fucking stupid for the base game, living world seasons 1 and 2, as well as the fucking first expansion unless you're a damn sylvari because the entire plot revolves around that race. even then you never get respect that you would deserve for killing 2 fucking dragons and doing a bunch of other shit, since the PC is always shit on. you literally join the human queen's murdersquad regardless of your race, and that decision is questionable at best even if you are a human
t. some fag that logs in to see how retarded the plot has gotten

>>386849084
Heh, Hear me out Arena Net.

If you put in a black thug criminal that gets executed for crimes against the state...

Or... an Osama bin alden plot line in the desert where the player is sent to assasinate him for commiting a terror attack on dragon's reach...

I will buy every expansion you ever release.

Bonus: if you set it up so that the queen did it as an inside job to justify intervention in Elona (and that's why the players are sent there this expansion)...


I will buy every cosmetic on the store and sing praises.

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>>386849236
Did someone say apples?

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Why haven't you rolled a kang for PoF, anon?

>>386849084
He's actually the leader of the White Mantle.

>>386849936
4chan should get a bunch of players on the f2p, give them haircuts like that and stand infront of the auction house claiming it's closed due to aids or something

>>386849751
>american fantasy

>>386849751
>Pointing out something you don't like means I'm x, y, and z
Fuck off you absolute bafoon.

>>386850150
>not a bunch of white guys yelling "BORDER'S CLOSED"

fuck Elona

>>386850037
So, a generic one dimensional evil guy with the depth of a puddle. Gotcha.

>>386850150
Shame you can't bodyblock.

>>386850418
Play the story, maybe.

>all the elonian hairs look infinitely more realistic and better than every single other hair in the game

>>386851529
These are supposed to be Elonian hairstyles?

Beta soon, fellow tyrians.

>>386852869
When?

>>386845406
BDO had more complicated/creative combat system tho.

>>386853125
Probably just a matter of minutes now, they said it starts at about the same time they release updates.

IT'S UP