Quest markers and mini-maps cause brain damage.

lmfao

This sounds like it would de-casualize games.

Im down for it.

WHERE IS A LINK TO THE ACTUAL STUDY

>>386812738
back to journals and landmarks sounds alright. people would actually look at the games instead of looking at a pointer and going on a straight line from a to b

>University of Montreal
Doesn't surprise me. Nothing sensible ever comes out of Montreal

Eh, I doubt the mini-maps are the cause. It's probably more likely the monotony of the shooting gameplay. They need to test more games than just 3.

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>been playing gtav recently
>use gps for everything
>90% of time not spent on cutscenes is spent looking at the gps
>am a total brainlet
its over the video games have destroyed me

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>>386812738
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XJkPtxqWM8
So what you're saying is that playing Mario sequel #9,999 led to the player learning nothing new? Interesting.

>>386813013
>WHERE IS A LINK TO THE ACTUAL STUDY

The article doesn't seem to have one. I guess Fortune is garbage.

But a quick Google search turned up this NPR article:
>http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/08/09/542215646/video-games-may-affect-the-brain-differently-depending-on-what-you-play
And that article contains a link to this paper:
>http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2017155a.html

It appears to be the same study.

I fucking hate fast travel and minimaps so fucking much.

Did the researchers ever consider that it's usually the retards who only stick to games with navigation tools? The rest of us can use landmark navigation just fine...

What's that? No? Study invalid then.

>>386813217
>>386813218
>>386813385

Map-dependent brainlets detected.

>>386812738
>This would allow the gamer to get around using landmarks included in the world of the game, which can strengthen spatial learning.
This would require actual level design and effort from developers, so it's not happening.

>>386813495

I'm pretty sure the researchers told the participants which games to play. If they compared people who already play Call of Duty to people who already play Mario, then there would be too many uncontrolled variables.

What a bullshit study.

We always have access to maps nowadays via smartphone, so why shouldn't we have them in games? Outdated navigation mechanics are just another barrier between the player and the fun.

>hurr durr muh Thief immersion
The game was shit and impossible to navigate. At least the abysmal reboot fixed that problem by adding an automap.

joke's on them I was always terrible at directions

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>>386812738
>mfw I get lost in every single game i played, regardless of map-markers or map size

So basically, play some Dark Souls. Memory mapping environments isn't hard in real life, but it can be difficult in games if they recycle the fuck out of assets and have too many samey-looking spots.

>>386813798
Here's a pity (You)

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>>386813798

>>386812738
no shit. you don't need scientific research to know this. anybody in the last several years who has played call of duty or counter strike or anything online game in general, especially FPS games because that's what children are lured into the most, knows how autistically violent and threatening kids are. Video games should've stayed in the arcade and never made into homes.

>>386813863
>dark souls shitters
Like clockwork

>>386813798
That's fine. You can go ahead and use your navigation tools all you want. If you think the convenience is worth turning into a retard who is dependent on said tools then that's on you.

>>386812738
So quest markers are shit but what about world maps. Do those fuck with your brain too?

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>>386812738
>Play Skyrim
>Get brain damage

thanks todd

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>>386813863
That would explain why I feel my brain dying everytime I play a Neptunia game. Variations of the same levels in every sequel.

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>>386812738
>playing with Nintendo games increases your IQ
Is that basically what they're saying?
Huh, what about games with really layered deep decision making like fighting games?

>>386814123
Only retards alike play Nepshit anyway.

>>386814039

Maps probably aren't as bad as quest arrows and objective markers. With a map, at least you need to read the map and understand it in relation to your surroundings, and then orient yourself accordingly. Probably even better is a map which doesn't tell you where you are on it.

playing video games all day makes you fucking retarded. mini-map or not. mix it up by playing neo /v/ with the kiddies, then go back to gaimz

>>386814008
It's the easy modern example to point at.

Unless you can come up with other modern games that have zero markers/compass/minimap/maps in them as the default.

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>>386813798

Just stay in your happy zone anon, it doesn't matter if it hurts your brain development as long as you're comfy.

You know there's lots of people who have down syndrome that are happy and comfy. Seems that's the life for you.

>>386812738
>Dues Ex isn't just about smart things, it makes you smarter
Cool.

>>386814217
Neptunia VII is a good game

>>386815039
>>Dues Ex
>thinks he's smarter
lmao@u

>>386813495
Are you fucking stupid or something

>tfw didn't grow up with casual quest markers so I rarely ever get lost in maps and can remember their layout extremely easily in case I need to go back and check if I missed something
feels good man

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>>386815224
Dude Sex is a thinking man's game. Don't try to tell me otherwise

>>386815556

>Sex AND the City
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>386815449
me too, im glad

>>386813387
None of the articles running this story have a link to the study, because if people read it they might realise the headlines are unnecessarily alarmist.

Just more proof we need to ban videogames or severely limit how much kids play.

>>386814204

No they're saying 3d platformers with no map like Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie keep the part of your brain controlling for spatial working while shooters like Metroid Prime and Splatoon rot it.

Zelda falls somewhere in the middle.

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>>386815449
>Cities and towns I cannot for the life of me remember
>Random cave #245734 I know like the back of my hand

>>386814123
This is the one of the big problems I have with most rpgs/dungeon crawlers these days. Tons of asset reuse and endless hallways leads to boring environments, and I want interesting world/level design in rpgs. It a fundamental expectation for the genre for me.

>>386815660
Go find the tallest tree you can and fucking hang yourself you retarded piece of shit

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Valve fanboys are literally brainlets

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Will no other videogame do maps like Thief? Even Thief 2 was more straightfoward.

>>386813385
>So what you're saying is that playing Mario sequel #9,999 led to the player learning nothing new? Interesting.

How the hell did you get this idea? They literally just said the 3D Mario games work your hippocampus, the region of your brain responsible for your memory (and spatial learning as mentioned in the study). Playing games that basically do the navigation for you doesn't work that region of the brain and weakens its ability because you're not using it.

Look realize that there's a time and place for shitposting. Here, you just look like a bumbling fool.

>>386816102
>unnecessarily alarmist
No, pretty sure they consider that a necessity for clicks.

>>386816109
>Just more proof we need to ban videogames or severely limit how much kids play.
But video games are proven to improve spatial reasoning in kids.

>>386816102
>None of the articles running this story have a link to the study

But you just replied to a post containing a link to an article which contains a link to the study.

>>386813515
It's only okay when DOOM does it

>>386816463
The good ones, sure

But there are so many trash video games that teach kids the wrong ways to think

>>386813798
I got my licence and started driving recently. It also coincided with new moving to a new city, so I was not familiar with it at all. For a good 2 months I relied on GPS to drive even 10 minute errands, groceries, post office, etc. After these 2 months i couldn't navigate for shit without the phone hand-holding me.

Took me another 2 months to get rid of the bad habits and actually start watching the signs, landmarks, and other stuff too find the way myself. But I still catch myself glancing towards where the phone with map would be when I get confused.

>>386816539
I, uh, I play too many ego-shooters it seems. Time to boot up some Layton and try to fix the damage.

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Is this why homos don't like jumping puzzles in FPSes?

I wonder what playing Descent for 90 hours does to the brain.

>>386816752
I don't like them because usually jumping feels like shit in FPS games.

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>Nintendo games will make you smar-

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Now this image is relevant again

>>386817004
Metroid is not a good example since you sometimes backtrack to get a powerup not said on the map, or some hidden area not there.

This is bullshit. How else would future generations become ready for their work-life? Once augmented reality becomes a thing via shoddy overlaways you will have nice indicators everywhere that tell you what to pick up and where to put it to be more efficient. If you don't do it you get less points. The reward system of the future worker's brain has to be conditioned from early age on with video game mechanics. It's the only way how humans with all their flaws will be able to interact efficiently with all the robotics and AI that will take over in productive environments.

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SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT MORROWIND WAS THE BEST ELDER SCROLLS

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>quest markers
>in-game maps
I saw a grey hair in my beard the other day.

>>386817556
just like the developers intended!

>>386813218
Which is ironic that you post that because many shooters dont have maps

>>386817785
Ya but most of them have some kind of fucking marker that shows you where to go.

>Call of Duty LITERALLY causes brain damage

is this why moba players are refarded?

>>386812738
Someone explain why this is a bad thing? What does it matter if you have more grey matter in one area as opposed to another? What is the actual negative effect?

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>being told how to do everything makes you a huge idiot and cripples your ability to reason

You don't say.

>>386818141
literally less neurons firing

>>386818141

Response learning is the equivalent of Pavlov tricking his dog into drooling by ringing a bell every time the dog ate until eventually he could just ring the bell and watch the dog salivate when no food was present.

AKA you're devolving into an ooga booga

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>>386812738
DELETE THIS

>>386818030
This would apply to RTS players as well.

>>386812738
People said something very similar about W3 and similar rpgs.
They're probably right, actually.

>>386816149

No. In Prime and Zelda you still need to develop a spacial understanding of your surroundings. Its not referencing a map that does the damage. Its those automarkers that lead you by the nose which you can follow almost without needing to look at your surroundings at all.

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>>386812738
>This becomes a big thing
>The masses demand mini maps, and quest makers get removed
>Developers have to start giving a shit about world building, and level design
>Games become less casualized, and more fun
I am ok with this

>>386818178
but you gain more grey matter in the other area, right?

>>386818236
so spatial good, response bad
got it

>>386813863
No.
Basically play open world ubisoft games and turn off minimap and map markers, otherwise you become a retard.

>>386812738
>it's not like muh soulsborne so it's bad game design
lmfao

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>>386815556
>>386815660
>>386816302
that pic and this exchange is just too surreal

>>386818331
Don't kid yourself, bad devs never change.

>>386815660
Ah, I see that you too have traveled across timelines. You'll get used to it, though I do miss the Berenstoners

>>386812738
You don't need scientific studies to figure out that people being overly reliant on handholding will result in them becoming retards.

>>386817623
This is off topic but I always wanted to try Everquest when my parents would take me to Goyatop but I couldn't because hackers will steal my credit card.

By the time I was 17 and had a credit card I was deep into the PS2 online multilayer classics like Socom, Timesplitters, and Resident Evil Outbreak and kinda forgot about it.

Can I still play EQ? I'm just curious about it.

>>386818497
yeah they do, they hire more women and outsource animations
all the while ditching singleplayer games for multiplayer only loot box number treadmills

>>386818141
There are multiple aspects. My personal favorite:

The report says that the "CoD game" part of your brain is responsible for call-and-response behavior and HABIT FORMATION. That is to say, when you strengthen this part of your brain, you strengthen your ability to form a call-and-response habit.

So by playing CoD, you are literally making yourself a dumber person more likely to get hooked on buying their microtransactions.

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>>386812738
>Mario game actually fire the neurons
Huh

>>386812738

>The caudate nucleus plays a vital role in how the brain learns, specifically the storing and processing of memories. It works as a feedback processor, which means it uses information from past experiences to influence future actions and decisions. This is important to the development and use of language. Specifically, communication skills are thought to be controlled mostly by the left caudate and the thalamus.

>Some brain specialists suspect the nucleus may play a role in the development of obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD). If this is true, it likely occurs because the nucleus is unable to control the transmission of worrying and concerning impulses between the thalamus and the orbitofrontal cortex, which alters the impact of this information on actions and decisions.
So functionally what does it mean having more grey matter in your caudate nuclei than usual?

>>386818635
Just because you can be shamed to change your opinion of a piece of shit won't change the fact it's a piece of shit.

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>>386818497
I can dream dammit! One day it will become popular for big companies to give a shit about making a good game.

>>386818721
It means when at rest your head will tend to fall to the side due to it's weight being inbalanced. It's why some old people have crooked necks.

>>386818816
Popular=/=Superior
Can't let you daydream, nigga.

so does this mean mmo players are really dumb?

How do i overcome my map dependency lads? I don't even play brainlet action games, mostly jrpg, but i find myself depending on the maps in them too often.

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>when it turns out that everyone arguing with you for increased convenience and dumbing down of games is a literal fucking retard

>>386819070
Play FPS classes like Duke Nukem 3D. A lot of jumping and map traversal.

A lot of games weren't intended to be played without maps/guides/arrows though tbqh. Witcher 3 is one of the worst offenders of bad modern game design but because /v/ are hipster polish cocksuckers, they'll defend it.

>>386819070
play etrian odyssey where you have to map dungeons yourself

>>386812738
You know, the NPR article on the study showed up on /v/ only a couple of days ago, and it was really civil. Some discussion about the study's methods of research, mostly disagreement, but no real bullshit.

Now it's back and has been distilled into pure clickbait form. And it's working. Games reporting really is fucking garbage.

>>386818721
I'm no science guy, but grey matter consists of nerves and dendrites. So it allows your brain to just overall function better/faster by having more, and stronger pathways to move info. Think of it like muscles only for your noggin.

>>386813863
Explains why the souls community are highly intelligent.

>>386816619
>tfw you're trying to drive somewhere you've never been
>tfw you check road maps before the trip and try to remember the route
>tfw you inevitably get fucked somewhere by traffic and/or a weird intersection that throws you off track
>tfw a trip that should take 30mins takes 3 hours

At least I didn't use gps.

>>386819048
I bet macromanagement is another trait of games that kills the brain.

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>>386816675
Please keep playing my game anon

>>386812738
Fucking knew it.

>>386819070
play Siege
though that probably requires too much skill and intelligence and also too fast and complex for a jrpgbrainlet like you

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>casualising games literally turns people retarded
And they called me crazy

>>386818141
Reduced grey matter in the hippocampus has been associated with an increased risk for numerous neurological and psychiatric disorders across the lifespan such as schizophrenia, post-traumatic stress disorder, depression and Alzheimer's disease, and cognitive deficits in normal ageing and non-hippocampus-dependent response strategies are associated with addiction.

>>386812738
>thinking changes the physiology of the brain

mmkay then. into the trash this goes.

>>386813387

Hmm, studies like this are interesting but you generally refine and reiterate them to validate the results. If this is an initial study then they're neat results but hardly anything conclusive. Clickbait journalists don't and never will give a fuck about that, though. It's easier to say "quest markers rot your brain" than "quest markers may or may not cause degenerative brain disorders in the long term based on an initial curiosity of a study in need of more testing to find anything resembling conclusive results". The latter just doesn't roll off the tongue quite right, you know?

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>>386812738

My fucking side, retards begging for these features actually get more retarded

This is it, it's time for proper good vidya to be born once again and maybe new mmorpgs will follow the old fashioned way to do things, by making you think about what you should do instead of shoving in a marker in your face

>>386812738
This is all part of the NWO. Their ultimate goal is to stupify and enslave mankind by locking them out of their hippocampus. The techniques are employed as soon as you hit kindergarten.

>>386819070
Just make yourself stop using them.

>>386819236

To be fair, this is hardly anything new. Academic studies are often distilled to their most interesting bit, given a sensationalist headline, and presented to the public with a general summary of the article and maybe a small opinion piece to pair with it. Old ass trick for journalists looking for a good scoop, really.

>>386818143
Scientific data is made to prove shit

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>>386819553
If your shitty opinion was true which it isn't then humans would be incapable of learning things. The brain adapts based on how you use it. Like reading, or literally anything else involving the brain.

fake

>>386812738
>/v/ hates the soulsborne games because they are brainlets who cant play games without minimaps and arrows telling them where to go

>>386812738
>>To counter potential long-lasting damage, the study authors suggest that response learners would benefit from strategies that target spatial learning. For example, video game designers could alter modern action games by removing in-system navigational tools. This would allow the gamer to get around using landmarks included in the world of the game, which can strengthen spatial learning.
HL2 did this a long fucking time ago and it didn't work
>game somewhat changed cause one fucking playtester got stuck in a fucking maze for 3 hours
I bet you $100 USD that if that maze was brought back today, there will STILL be people who can't fucking figure it out
>What was The Stanley Parable, and the Portal series

>>386818719
Paralel universe guy is a monster then

>>386817556
It's better with the music

>>386819782
no its because of the shit gameplay

>>386819782
Soulsborne games have poor gameplay and limited control schemes which result in idiocy like the forward jump in Souls being a ridiculous combination, because consoles ran out of fucking buttons and nobody cared to adjust controls for the port. They are simply unpleasant to play, maps or no maps.

>>386813317
GTA is retarded for not just having the navigation exist in the world, at least as an option. You spend all tthe fucking time staring at the minimap because it has essentially 100% of the important information. All that world building and you stare at a tiny corner the entire time.

>>386819782
>he fell for the neogaf pysop
/v/ was always pro soulsborne

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>>386818143

the sad part is that kids these days ask you how to do things if the vidya doesn't hold their hands

>>386819931
>Soulsborne games have poor gameplay and limited control schemes
Holy pleb alert we got a big one here lads

>>386819934
It was excusable for the PS2 era, when it was like what, not even 480i resolution

>>386819931
Go back to neogaf brainlet.

>>386819965
They don't even ask

>>386812738
>Casuals confirmed retarded.

This has been known for years.

>>386819970
Yes, appeal to the crowd of sycophants. That will show me. It's funny when people too dumb to realize how grievously this otherwise great game suffered because of being designed with console controllers in mind, attempt to talk back like they have an argument. Do you have an argument? Let's hear it.

>>386812738
>tfw you exclusively navigate with the stars, sun and a watch in ArmA

>>386819965
Its not just kids. Nu-gamers don't even push every button as soon as they start a new game to see what everything does. Fucken plebs.

>>386819070
>How do i overcome my map dependency lads?
Make your own maps like they used to do with really old games.
Makes me glad I played Xenoblade Chronicles with the minimap turned off.

>>386816149
>Metroid
>No platforming
>quest markers

>>386816619
I had a summer job that consisted heavily of driving in a major city core, and the country roads around it.
Second year in the boss bought us all GPS's to use as a backup instead of paper maps and memorization.
They were nice, but memorizing highway exits and major roads using a regular map helped more than you could ever know.

Keep using regular maps and road signs, you wont regret it. i promise

http://www.pcgamer.com/dishonored-clues-hints/

>Arkane: Dishonored play testers "didn't know what to do," needed more hints

>"People would just walk around during playtesting of the 'Lady Boyle' mission," Dishonored executive producer Julien Roby said. "They didn't know what to do. They didn't even go upstairs because a guard told them they couldn't. They'd say, 'Okay, I can't go upstairs.' They wouldn't do anything."

>>386820135
>maybe if i use fancy words they won't think I'm a brainlet
Fuck off brainlet.

>>386812738
>make games like Morrowind
Still greatest game of all time. (Of all time)

>>386820250
>literally a kneejerk response
Good doggie.

>>386820135
Not him, but my argument is that you are a fucking retard, jumping is very rarely used in DS1, and the gameplay objectively has positive points that can't be dismissed with fallacious reasoning or memes.

Case in point, games not like Soulsborne literally cause you to become retarded apparently

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>>386820224

>end mission in dishonored
>they give away just how much money you missed out and other shit
>ending is shit no matter what

>>386820250

Not that anon but "sycophants" is the only remotely fancy word in that post.

>>386820250
>fancy words

How fucked are you off you can remember land mark but not street signs and addresses?

I navigate to all my regularly visited places by identify landmarks, but the other place that I actually know the street and number of is my own home.

>>386820224
I watched my nephew (9) play Metal Slug 3. He got to the area with the Yetis that turn you into a snowman with their ice projectiles. When you get hit, you're supposed to wiggle as hard as you can to break free, but he didn't do it long enough and just thought he was stuck like that.

He put the controller down and just watched the screen. I asked what he was doing and he said "I'm waiting for the timer to run out so I can die." He legit thought the game would just softlock him like this with no way out.

>>386812738
this must be fake news duded

>>386812738
I have trouble finding my way around while driving and usually need a gps to find my way to places that I don't drive to every day. am I done for anons?

What about figthing gaems ?

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>>386820224
>They didn't even go upstairs because a guard told them they couldn't.
This makes me so irrationally mad. It's like watching a grown mad struggle to read a Curious George book.

>100 people
and that's just the first flaw. I'm sure there's other problems too like genetic confounds.

no thanks. shitty fucking study lol

>>386820224

This is almost as bad as the Half Life 2 playtesters becoming confused by a single left turn that looped them back to where they had come from and couldn't figure out how to go right.

>>386812738
>People who navigate using GPS aren't as smart as people who navigate using landmarks and active sight
gee that was totally brand new and completely relevant infornation

>>386812738

This would be so much more fun and was one of the things I loved about stalker was the search missions. Having to find the tools by either asking NPC's for hints or just logically thinking where would you find them and searching was great.

>>386820314
>only soulsborne lacks map markers and requires you to memorize landmarks in order to navigate the world

The gameplay that relies on a single move as a defensive measure that allows you to bypass all damage completely. Jumping being very rarely used is a part of the problem, you look at the fucking world of Souls with cliffs and walkways and odd paths, but you can't make use of any of those, you are funneled into pre-set paths instead and it is impossible to get where you are not "supposed to be". Blade of Darkness and Gothic did these things much better, because they didn't suffer from being designed for consoles primarily.

>>386820491
>this much denial
Sad. Many such cases.

>>386816992
Bhop surf quake called and said you were wrong

>>386813798
t. brainlet

>>386820491
If you read it you'll spot several ways it suffers from selection bias, and sample size issues.

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>>386812738
>Researchers found
Was this peer-reviewed?
Who is the sponsor of this study?
>University of Montreal
Oh so it is a study conducted by a bunch of undergrad hacks. Yes, a few "young adults" with no actual field experience, biased as fuck and doing this only for a good grade conducted the study.

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>>386819284

>mfw Im retarded and cant into a map
>tfw I miss intersections or dont pay attention to traffic
>blame those who aren't brainlets for this

>>386819934
>>386813317
you can turn the mini-map off and just leave the map icons. going to a destination is still the same shit youre describing, but at least exploring youll no longer have the option of looking at the map

>>386820440
Casual fightan, probably to a lesser degree because you still care about how close you are to an enemy, how far your attack goes, but it's not complicated to learn or engage. If you're more involved, it's probably not an issue because then you learn all the variables, hitboxes, etc, and keeping all of that in mind won't be just short-term memory reaction

>>386820730

It literally boils down to

>treat people like idiots long enough and they become idiots

It's common sense just being backed up by a bit of science. I would argue that the results merit further testing, because despite the flaws in the study, the results are still interesting.

>>386812738
Witcher 3 LITERALLY makes you stupider.

>>386820730
Associate Professor, a couple of Doctors from a Quebec hospital, and others I can't be arsed looking up.

>>386820730
>>386820814
You raise a generation of people as idiots, then you wonder why they won't read a book. Games have gotten progressively dumbed down, and then Bethesda has to make the games dumber and dumber.

>>386820503
Has Valve ever responded about their infamously retarded playtesters? I hope they've gotten new ones since then at least.

>>386820940
Are you implying games were ever "smart"?

>>386820198
>not reading the manual

>>386820814
I hate to see money being wasted on dumb shit like this. Although nothing tops the study in which British "scientists" found that apples are good for you. It costed £2million.

>>386819965
Y can't metroid crawl??

>>386818358
modded far cry 3 and not getting radio towers is great for this

>>386820730
>Was this peer-reviewed?
lmao who gives a fuck if it was peer reviewed
http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/21/peer-review-replication-and-publication-bias/
http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/science/

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>>386820986
Fallout 1 and 2 taught me to speak English, so yes.

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POST YFW A GAME HAS MAP MARKERS

>>386820491
Hey man these studies are expensive. Though, I know psychologists don't have the best statistical training.

>>386820931
I have a feeling they are the ones claiming credit for it while their underlings done the actual study.

Even if not, they are a bunch of quacks and hacks. My point still stands.

>>386820814
>treat people like idiots long enough and they become idiots
nah. bullshit. intelligence is heritable and "not training" your brain as an adult affects nothing.

>>386813798
>he needs a map to go around his fucking city

>>386814247
>maps that dont you where you are on it.
what games do this? itd need some easily identifiable landmarks that can be seen from a distance, id reckon, but i cant think of any games like that

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>>386820390
Similar to that, Black Ops lets you escape the chair during the menu by hitting L or R, but I didn't think to do it, because I was used to dumbed down games that didn't expect anything from me.

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>>386821126
You literally sound like someone who doesn't train their brain. Fucking sapes, I swear to god.

>>386821126
Intelligence is inheritable, wisdom is not. The smartest person in the world who isn't exposed to challenge will be as dumb as a normal person

>>386819198
>A lot of games weren't intended to be played without maps/guides/arrows though
This is the real problem. Having a map isn't bad per se; being forced to rely on the map is.

>>386821189
"ugh common sense"
fucking rofl retard

>>386821123
The study is ripe for being pulled apart, but going after the people who published it just makes you look salty is all I'm trying to say.

>>386821126

Intelligence is more about what you do with information.

If you don't give your brain the information, you're still a dumb ass.

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>>386813798
>We always have access to maps nowadays via smartphone

way to prove the point of the study. Learn how to read signs

>>386821204
what a smart person exposes himself to is heritable. all behavioral traits are in some part heritable.

>>386821148
SADX did it.

>>386818564
member when sinbad killed mandela?

>>386821126
>Hi I don't know how the brain works, but I sure do love to post! Here I go!
The brain functions the same way a regular muscle does. You let it sit there, and do nothing, and it will get weak. It's just common sense at this point anon.

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>>386821206
Think about how big maps are in FF15 - you have a GPS at all times, no map to read or people to tell where things are. Imagine this game and just getting absolutely lost with no direction.

>>386819842
>>386817556
Source?

>>386816598
we should ban books too, by that logic

>>386812738
This proves nothing about brain damage. The brain is adapting to be as efficient as possible when dealing with the information that is available to it.

They even say that the brain is focusing its energy on increasing grey matter in one area at the expense of the other; not that it is actually losing connections and tissue in both.

>>386821374
>Imagine this game and just getting absolutely lost with no direction.
Sounds comfy desu. A proper road trip game.

>>386821123
lol why are you so mad? Research is done in microscopic steps. Yeah, the literal first study will probably be a little shitty, but 10 years from now there'll be a literature with real value. If you don't like it, then be glad you're not an academic.

>>386821425
>brain is adapting to shutting off and just following directions
>"this isn't a bad thing"

quest marker ban when

open world games are fucking ruined because you don't have to navigate like a real world at all

just walking around in morrowind was more immersive than all these new action games

>>386821421
I'd ban fan fiction, actually. Books have editors and they usually don't fuck up things like first and third person perspectives.

>>386821356
yes, keep repeating it. that might make it come true (it won't).

>>386821162
except no one really expected that, since in virtually every game, menus and gameplay are separated. i figured out by myself that pressing l or r would make the guy move, and i think you can look around, but i had to read that pressing l and r multiple times in a row breaks you free

>>386812738
This is true. I spent my teen years playing all those shitty open world quest marker filled action adventure games and now I can't even find my way around my hometown without a GPS.

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>tfw I've played all of Bethesda's modern games
Is it too late for me?

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>>386821247
>Born smart
>Don't use your brain to learn anything productive
>Become dumb simpleton from laziness while someone who isn't as smart tries and surpasses you because you're shitposting on a Mongolian falconry board at 2 AM

>>386821325
>what a smart person exposes himself to is heritable
How does a person inherent the things they pursue? There's an element of environmental factors, but there's also personal choice. If an intelligent person is never able to find challenge in his environment, his intellect is worthless because he will know and apply as much as a normal person. It's like those kids who are in gifted classes when they are in school, but never do anything outside of it and up working a normal job like everyone else. You need to apply intellect in order for it too matter, brooding about how smart you and how dumb everyone else is means jack shit

>>386821559
>It's wrong cause I say so
This is literally a fact. Pull up google for like 5 seconds you lazy shitposter.

>>386821568
But if games weren't dumbed down, you'd at least experiment.

I used to find all kinds of fucking secrets in Mega Man or Mario and had no guides or internet to tell me that, and I'm shocked I ever found them to begin with

>>386821384
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lo0qD6rOz8

>>386821615
>Don't use your brain to learn anything productive
knowledge is different from intelligence (the g factor). please look up that term and try to understand that you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>386819198
maps are cool if you don't have gps. navigating in dayz was a lot of fun since you had to triangulate yourself first

anyone else disable minimap when possible? i just think they usually take up too much screen space

>>386812738
3d platformer master race confirmed

>>386821628
>How does a person inherent the things they pursue?
genetics influence what you're interested in. there are environmental factors, albeit they're usually non-shared environmental effects.

>brooding about how smart you and how dumb everyone else is means jack shit
i don't understand why people keep saying shit like this. it's completely irrelevant to the point i made.

>>386821487
Because the directions aren't lying (most of the time).
When the waypoint marker does lie because the game made a pathfinding error, which usually happens in procedurally generated levels, most players are more than able to get their neurons firing and start figuring out where to go based on other visual cues (ie landmarks).

Although, then you run into the problem of mindlessly following the player in front. The above happened to me once and I ended up going backwards through a level, but I recognized the layout a few rooms back and turned around. The waypoint had fixed itself by that point but two of the guys following me just kept going and going...

>>386820737
Am I mistaken, or are those people lying in the road afterward?

>>386812738
CASUALS BTFO

>>386821713

You idiot, your IQ is not set in stone. Yes, you inherit your capacity, and intelligent people can get by being lazy better than average idiots.

However, if you read a lot of books, juggle, play music etc. it physically alters your brain and makes it better. Your brain literally gets more ripped when you challenge it.

>>386812738
>Dumb games make people dumb
How many hours and dollars were spent on this again?

>>386821832
Some people got hit, this is how bad China fucking is

>study is based on a questionnaire of what games people played over the last 12 months

So someone did the equivalent of a straw poll and called it a scientific study.

>>386821815
You realize brains don't differentiate between reality and video games, right?
When you're trained to mindlessly follow simple directions in games, you end up doing that in reality.

>>386821330
>DX
you have to go back

>>386821957
>You realize brains don't differentiate between reality and video games, right?
they do, which is why violent video games aren't illegal

>>386813798
>he drives with a GPS
I bet you also drive an automatic you pussy newfaggot

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>>386812738
I don't know how to feel about this. I feel validated in a way but I'm not happy with so much retardation caused by video games.

>>386812738
so does a GPS cause braindamage?

>>386821148

Deus Ex?

>>386821832

No good samaritan laws in china. You get fucked up real bad by helping injured people.

>>386821798
>genetics influence what you're interested in
You're insane, or have a very strong external locus of control. Genetics determine the facets of your personality that can grow, but where that is applied is entirely different. If you have the focus and patience of a saint, you could make a great accountant, but you could also be a great care-taker of kids. You're environmental experience and own decisions allow you to have a control over what ultimately pursue in life
>i don't understand why people keep saying shit like this. it's completely irrelevant to the point i made.
The way you talk lends itself to that stereotype, even if you aren't like that in actuality. People who blame things outside of their control for their problems are considered weak

>>386821961
DX with the Dreamcast mods is the absolute best version. The latest update just re-added specular lighting too.

This reminds me of why I liked Far Cry 2 and how you had to memorise the map instead of having it on the screen in the corner somewhere.

>>386821815
That type of mentality is how you end up with the fat people from Wall-e. You shouldn't have machines doing simple task for you. Like moving or thinking.

>>386818623
Project 1999

>>386821374
>no map to read or people to tell where things are
not having a mini-map and markers necessitates people to tell you where things are. most games dont have those people because they say "fuck it, we'll make them use the mini map." play morrowind and see how well that system can work. it just requires more effort

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>>386821685
Nice, thanks man

>>386820990
What's a Manual?

>>386820503
Dude, watching non-video game players sometimes is like watching a cat or baby play video games.

Hey uh... you turned around when you picked up that item. You've been walking backwards through the level for a little while.
>Oh have you played this before?
No I uh... just noticed.
>Wow you ARE good at video games!

It's like so obvious at all times for me, that it feels like lots of people are colourblind ... in the sense of remembering space.

Pretty sure I've got a couple gigabrains worth of video game maps taking up space up there because out of all the things you remember, I find spaces the easiest.

>>386821984
Thank you for intentionally missing the point.
Enjoy your day on /v/

>>386822158
Luddite.

>>386821291
i was trying to figure out how to phrase this to that dumbass. thanks for taking care of that for me

>>386812738
we now have official proof that Wizardry style RPGs have at least this on other RPGs... they don't cause brain damage with mini illustrat

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>>386812738
Wow. I don't mean to sound like an "I knew it"-fag, but actually I'm a plumber who works with some older and younger guys, and this is actually something we've legit talked about.

Being able to find something in the real world requires a set of skills that are not only undeveloped by video games using minimaps/quest markers, it actively detracts from someone's ability to learn to do that, because they have another system that their minds are used to that simply doesn't exist in the real world, so they end up google mapping EVERYTHING they can, but they cannot find things nearby that you ask them to find, or they do it very slowly, or must ask for a lot of direction to find something that should be plainly obvious.

EX: "Go get me my pipe wrench."
"Where is it exactly?"
"Back of my van, on the right."

10 mins later

"I couldn't find it. Where is it -exactly?-"
"Open the side door, right hand side behind the headache-rack. Its gray with a red band, hanging mid-level, next to the red hose."

They basically require the 2nd description for -everything- to find something that should be pretty obvious, or is something they should have been able to look around for. Its like they are incapable of finding things for themselves, or using basic reasoning skills to look for things, or follow directions to any place on their own. They NEED google maps to find places, and they NEED extremely specific directions to find things nearby. Its kind of sad.

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Viewing porn decreases brain matter as well, by the way.

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>>386822251
>Not being a dependent bitch to machines means you hate them
Ok senpai

>>386822158
the only thing wall-e world did wrong was let people get fat, you'd think they'd have nutrition down by then

>>386822306
Interesting. I have problems finding shit but that's usually due to lack of knowledge or not knowing where it was and having selective blindness. I've never had a problem finding items when people tell me to grab them something and I know what it is.

>>386821425
it literally says while it increases in one, it decreases in the other. at least according to OP quotation

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>>386813798
Brainlets, when will they learn?

>>386822093
it was a pokemon:XD joke. but ill dive DX a try for u bb

>>386822464
That, and the fact the the whole population could barely walk after centuries of sitting in chairs. It doesn't matter how healthy you eat if you never move.

>>386822763
>it was a pokemon:XD joke
fak

>>386822513
We've had 3 younger guys, one of them has been with us for 2 years and its been like this with all of them so far. All of them talk about video games quite a bit too. I used to work at barnes & noble part-time, and this was something that came up there as well. I knew a lot of employees there who were big into video games, but I can't even count the number of times I'd have to repeat things to them in order to direct them in some way. I tried a lot of different strategies, and eventually just proposed a new labeling system in the store and to have it integrated into the training curriculum, using big ass signs with numbers and letters to give employees a number system so they can "count down" to where they need to start looking. I understand that some people have trouble with these things, but these were employees that had been there longer than I had, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to find a book when I tell them the exact fucking zone, topic, subtopic, and author. Shit was infuriating. And I swear to fuck it was half the store's employees were like that, and they were all pretty smart kids otherwise.

>>386821832
As the other guy said, pantsu-on-head retarded laws in China.

There was once a guy who tried to help some victim of an accident up, then that victim sued him for being a party to the accident. Court ruled that if he helped the victim then he must have felt guilty in some way for causing it, otherwise he would have just left her/him alone. Extracted a good sum of money from the poor sod.

>>386818719
DEEPEST LORE confirmed

>>386812738
>90 hours of 3D super mario

over what period?

>>386822513
I think I have the opposite problem. I can do landmarks and travel directions almost perfectly but god help everyone if we're in a basement and someone needs me to go upstairs to find something in a general area.

For example, by roughly age 11 i had roughly memorized the layout of my entire city except the ghetto area simply because my parents dragged my ass along whenever they needed to go shopping and I would just take in the world staring out the window. Granted,the population is only about 700k,but thats still decent enough if you're able to find your way home from any point in the city you live in. Parents took me on a lot of road trips as a kid and I was in charge of maps and directions so I hope that's stuck with me. Cant stand using a GPS personally, but sometimes its necessary in a city I dont know. Generally I can pick up the lay of the land pretty quick relative to wherever I'm staying though.

>>386812738
>Bad video games are scientifically proven to be shit
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MONTREAL YES

>>386822292
Aren't Wizardry maps non-euclidean?

>>386822523
Yes, that's what I said. The article's clickbait title implies brain damage (loss of functionality) even if the report says it is shifting brain material from one area to another that is more used (change of functionality).

>>386823123
but thats still a bad thing

>>386823228
how so?

>>386818967
But popular does mean superior when you're talking about something like that.

>>386823296
>>386821487

Wouldn't this mean using a gps or smartphone to navigate in real life does the same thing?

>>386821487
it's good for the jew
who do you think designs these games

>>386823401
P much

My mom told me she'd cry if she got lost without a GPS

>>386823296
the first 3-4 paragraphs should be enough to explain why you wouldnt want parts your hippocampus to be repurposed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocampus

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>>386812738
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

DELETE THIS AT ONCE

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>>386821615
litterally me

>>386818331
>>386818497
What if it becomes the law?

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>>386812738
>tfw brain damage
>tfw doesn't matter all that much to me

>>386813863
I hope you mean ONLY Dark Souls, since II and III are Call of Duty-tier linear.

>>386822927
A day.

>>386816109
Or just ban western ones.

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>grew up playing wc3 custom maps (TD's and rpg's mostly)
>no manuals or guides
>have to ask others how to play
>everyone responds and helps you out, no condescending faggots screeching "google it scrub" or "git gud", feel like a bro in every map immediately
>master the map in 1 game due to incredibly helpful team mates
>add them all as friends and play with them every day dominating every map we decide to play
>become the senpai and guide newfags in future games
>dota gets popular
That's when gaming died.

>>386812738
Hopefully we can see a resurgence in games where exploration actually is exploration, and not just "sideroom with goody"

>>386813798
>We always have access to maps nowadays via smartphone, so why shouldn't we have them in games?
Exercising? Bullshit. We have no more survival need to be fit to run away from the cougars. Why don't we just live our life sitting on a sofa 24/7? We can do that today, therefore it's the best choice and nothing bad could ever develop out of this.

Progress and ease of use mean there is a potential to live an extremely dumb, detatched, and simple life, which affects your motivation and brain. Ask yourself why depression grew so much in the last decades. Because now we actually have time to feel depressed because we live very comfortably. Is that also a positive thing by your standards?

You still need to find a balance no matter what level technology is at. It's a known fact that most people who get an immense amount of money ruin their lives, including very high suicide rates, because economical limiters is what kept them in check in the first place.

You'll understand once you pass puberty.

>>386818331
>implying game devs won't use this data as a justification for doubling down on their dumbing down so that their audiences will be more likely to buy their future products regardless of quality

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>>386812738
>>386813387
I'm not surprised.
Bethesdafags confirmed retarded.

>>386824159
Like we didn't know that already.

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Is this the reason why I'm having trouble in college?

Playing Underrail without guides really made me appreciate a time before quest markers.

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>>386824116
>Game devs have been making us retards so we just end up buying whatever they put out
Holy shit you're right

>>386824207
No it's scientifically proven.

>>386812738
SHIT GAMES ARE BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH! STUDY CONFIRMS!

>>386824239
Yes. Stop being a response cuck and get some hippocampus gains lad.

>>386824113
>We have no more survival need to be fit to run away from the cougars
Yeah, now we just have to run away from Darkies, Terrorists, and pissed off white virgins with assault rifles.

>>386819198
Witcher 3 can be played without GPS. But you'll get lost so often that the game, which is already long, will double its duration.

>>386819934
This point is poorly thought out.

A mere "option" would not be relevant, because the map design and presence or lack of a minimap affects it. Toggling on or off does not create the best on or off minimap gameplay. Infact, it'd be rather poor. GTA is designed in a way where the minimap is core. There are no signs. There are no 3 months of test driving to get used to things. The gameplay is about going on dangerous missions and driving in random places for a few hours. The experience is more condensed than how you act in real life. It's not a daily job where you drive in the same patterns every time. Therefore having the same exact complexity of a city setting won't work the same way.

The game would need to be designed differently on a fundamental level, and that's coming from someone who hates reliance on pointers and minimaps and prefers immersion and exploration.

People who just demand difficulty settings or minimap off do so much damage to game development. It doesn't fix the issues. Demand games designed from the grounds up to not have minimaps. That's how you get the experience you want.

>>386823964
i miss vanilla wow for this reason. there were no real quest markers, you had to read the damn quest logs and everyone was more than helpful to lead you the way or help with a build. now its google faggotry

>>386819782
Yet /v/ likes DS1 more than the sequels that went full Todd Howard with the level design. Funny that.

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Here's a link from the actual university. It has more details and names the study.

http://nouvelles.umontreal.ca/en/article/2017/08/07/playing-action-video-games-can-actually-harm-your-brain/

>>386824356
I can the only thing I can do is go to tutoring now.

>>386812738
Huh, so Shenmue confimed to be the thinking man's choice
Kiryu-chan BTFO

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>>386819070
It's too late for you, your brain is already damaged. I'm sorry.

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>>386812738
Far Cry 2 is the best game in the series and now science has proven it :^)

>>386812908
>corporations
>caring about health over easier long-term profits

Yeah because that's why MSG, hydrogenated oils, preservatives, HFCS, countless chemicals, lard/oil in general, heavy metals, nitrites, sucralose and excess-anything have totally been removed from our groceries, fast food and even water amirite?

They're Jews, anon. You don't play it fairly, you play whatever manages to appease people enough to slip by.

>>386819070
Just play a bit of Thief once in a while.

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>>386824798
Is this why i post frogs all day?

>>386821857
Are you seriously trying to tell me niggers can be as smart as whites?

>>386824914
>MSG
You gotta stop jumping at that boogeyman. It's not nearly as bad as it's been portrayed. Campaigns against it were just a dog whistle to persecute the Chinese community.

>>386824978
hes a cuck, don't listen to him

>>386824846
But it is. Mods that fix the combat result in a complete product that is superior and more atmospheric than the sequels. Whether you drive everywhere or use the bus every now and then, it retains its "African mercenary simulator" charm even today.

Soulsborne haters BTFO. Further proof Miyazaki is king.

So, if I play my mongolian Dungeon-crawling games using the minimap spell, I'm becoming dumber, but if I don't use it, I'm actually becoming smarter?
wtf i hate minimaps now

>>386822869
Yup, I can see that general trend. It's ironic that calling out the "obedience" culture we currently have is considered condescending and pseudointellectual despite the reality of the situation.

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>>386823710
psst. hey! kid!


i was gonna change it to say todd howard, but thatd take some time

>>386825178
using a map is spatial navigation. following a line isn't

>>386812738
mini maps and markers in general are awful game design, they waste millions of dollars making these beautiful worlds only to have you look at the tiny map or at icons, but that also means the devs are doing a poor job at designing a world and would require them to do better, but that's too much work or takes too much time and money.

>>386824978
>>386825068
i guarantee there are blacks smarter than you two. unless youre astrophysicists or aerospace engineers, in which case i could be wrong, but even then it wouldnt be impossible

>>386813798
Manchine detected
it is trying to enslave you

>>386824426
>People who just demand difficulty settings or minimap off do so much damage to game development. It doesn't fix the issues. Demand games designed from the grounds up to not have minimaps. That's how you get the experience you want.

This. Turning off minimaps or objective markers does not fix poor game design that has no other means for navigation.

>>386825091
Yeah the same Miyazaki that made DS3 a straight fucking line.
Soulscucks really are this delusional.

>>386824934
Thief 1 and 2 have the best implementation of maps I've ever seen. Instead of a detailed automap with a key and everything, its often just a rough sketch with vague hints of what certain areas are.

>>386819782
Nigger most of /v/ loves DeS, DS1 and BB, what are you talking about?

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>Able to navigate areas by memory quite easily
>Can't remember small area or street names
>Quest givers give you directions by names instead of by what is near your destination

>>386825596
DS3 progresses linearly compared to other souls games, but its far from minimap/objective marker tier.

>>386825392
Not all blacks are niggers y'know. Nelson Mandela wasn't a nigger for instance.

I thought this was common knowledge for decades.
Googles existence meant you didn't have to remember everything since if you need to figure something out you can just google it.
GPS devices mean you dont have to remember how to navigate streets.

>>386820979
they have, but the only feedback they'd give is "we'd enjoy this a lot more if it was a card game"

>>386814023
>That's fine. You can go ahead and use your calculator tools all you want. If you think the the convenience is worth turning into a retard who is dependent on said tool then that's on you.
>>386816619
>tfw i literally walk everywhere using my phone and never remember any locations
>tfw think street names and house numbers are deprecated as fuck since you can just type the name of the place on google or the subway station/bus stop
>tfw also drop games which have no objective markers (the modern ones at least, it's unforgivable, unless it's an exploration game)
>tfw literally can't tell one street for another
>tfw think "find the way myself" fags are stuck in the past and are wasting time and effort

life is good familia

>>386825086
I just play FC2 to see how long I can survive starting a firefight in the central village. Probably the most intense shit in the game, and usually fun to attempt.

>>386825392
>Here's a secret they don't want you to know!
>20% of blacks are smarter than 50% of whites .png!

>>386825740
You're baiting.
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist who burned people to death with flaming tires around their necks.

It's not just the spatial awareness that has suffered. The latest generations have been almost lobotomized. You might find this article interesting, lads. That is if you'll be able to grasp it.

http://www.appliedscholastics.org/education-issues/hidden-illiteracy-the-ignorance-of-ignorance.html

>>386814078
>Todd, after years of getting shafted by corporate meddling, has decided that ignorance is bliss
>want to show bliss to the masses by dumbing them down

>>386825890
>education materials and services based on the works of L. Ron Hubbard

>>386825890
>quotes fucking l ron hubbard
I'm calling my lawyers

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i noticed this so fucking hard with saints row 1 and san andreas
san andreas? i knew the entire map off the back of my head. saints row? HIT PAUSE, PLACE ICON. FOLLOW THE ARROW

however, my biggest complaint about this article isnt that quest markers and mini maps cause brain damage, id argue that VIDEOGAMES cause brain damage, and just some of those games, the ones with quest markers and minimaps cause MORE of that brain damage

>>386825873
That he may have been, but a nigger he was not. Might as well call a Nip a Chink, or a Gook, or a Nigger at that point.

Mahita Gajanan deserves to be fucking SHOT for absolute fucking lack of basic journalistic integrity, as this article completely and EXPLICITLY contradicts what the study really actually showed and proved.

>>386812738
wow literally caused all this cancer and most of you fgts are too young to even realize it....

>>386825873
>morality = intellect
In that case 4chan is essentially braindead.

>>386826095
there was this other game that had a minimap broadcast over the entire screen that you could turn on any time. pretty obscure tho, wouldnt expect you to of heard it. doom?

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>>386826032
>that picture

>>386812738
Honestly I'm not that surprised when most games basically play itself. Modern "game design" became a joke so it can cater to the every possible audience. A lot of decisions are dictated by one or two internal game tests see the famous HL2 running a circle for 30minutes for example.

I don't understand why modern 'designers' assume everyone is a drooling retard that can't think for themself
>wait a minute that card
Like are you fucking kidding me? This isn't a one off either, it's common among most "AAA" games for equally simple puzzles.

>>386826130
Being a savage is what defines a nigger. If a melanin-enriched individual was quoting Shakespeare while robbing a store and attacking police, he'd still be a nigger

>>386812738
Play Gothic

You get no questmarkers and GPS there.
You need to buy a map from a mapmaker and memorize locations plus actually listen to the guys who give you quests.

Guy asks for orc weapon.
You hear some dudes talking about an orc who died at the city wall.
Go there and claim the weapon for yourself.

That or you ask around elsewhere and find out some other orc is in a cave nearby.
Brilliant quest design.

>>386813013
>WHERE IS A LINK TO THE ACTUAL STUDY

maybe you want a green line highlighting the path between you and the internet link?

>>386825890
>American Educator L. Ron Hubbard

TRASHED.COM