What is your least favorite class?

>>386812371
Pyro

Sniper, and to a lesser extent Demoknight.

I can't headshot for shit while scoped in. I also can't seem to time a charge-in swing with a sword at the right time either.

I can't into Sniper at all.

Give me a class with projectiles or spread and I will do fine. Pin point accuracy? Nope.

Scout!

Medic. I want to kill not make others kill longer

Medic's by far the most frustrating class to play as for me, as either I get too cocky with my ubers or my patients behave like retards.

Engineer, he's the only class that ruins a game mode by existing, capture the flag. He's always fucking annoying to play against no matter the game mode, in fact I prefer minis to level 3's.
If your talking about playing though it's the heavy, I don't like being slow.

Spy. I just can't fucking get the hang of it. Sure I can get a few kills and destructions, but i will never lead even a pub as spy.

Also demo and soldier are no fun to me.

>>386812867
CTF is so shit it's already ruined even without the engineer

>>386813098
Care to explain why? The game mode is always unfun to play for me because I would have to go through 7 level 3's to even touch the intel.

>>386812491
I was the same way until I realized my monitor refresh rate was stuck at 23hz for some reason.

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>>386812371
Sniper and demoman.
They're just classes that make you wait for a big damage output, but I prefer something more instantaneous, like Scout or Spy.

sniper. Fuck sniper

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Mfw playing Overwatch at a friends place and comparing it to TF2

Jesus fuck how can people eat up this garbage.
Blizzard marketing team must be pretty well paid to sell such shitshow of a game.

The P2P aspect of it doesnt make it any better than my usual F2P TF2. In fact i think its even worse.

>>386812448
/thread

>>386812371
Pyro, it's the class that all the new players and children flock to and it takes zero skill to use. There was a massive influx of Pyros when the game went F2P and it was irritating for the most part.
Also Pyro mains are the biggest faggots, I remember how they cried when the Axtinguisher was nerfed despite it being 100% justified

OP here. I actually meant what class do you find the most annoying when others play, but I welcome all discussion.

Italy or France

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>>386813132
>the extraa blood splattering in teh screen when melee fighting the soldier
I fucking love this webm to death

>>386813302
yeah OW is fucking garbage. It's nothing compared to TF2.

Motherfucking demos. Fucking Scots always have some sort of sticky trap bullshit waiting around every corner.

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>>386813302
>people always having to bring up Overwatch in the TF2 threads
Pic related becomes more and more accurate.

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Sniper and Demomen
especially on 2fort

Hate Spy and Heavy

Mains were Scout, Soldier and Sniper in that order

>>386813504
>implying overwatch threads don't get posted with tf2 shit too

>>386812371
Sniper. I can't play as him at all because of my shit aim, and I hate fighting against enemy Snipers who always go after me specifically when I'm Medic.

>>386813302
>>386813375

>play quick play
>OH WOW THIS IS SO BAD TF2 SO MUCH BETTER IN EVERYWAY

you realize I could compare mario kart maps with 100% crit to overwatch's GM competitive scene and make the same arguments right?

>>386813459
>start of payload or attack/defend
every. fucking. time.

>>386813580
They don't for the most part. For every one Overwatch thread that mentions TF2 there's a dozen TF2 threads that mention Overwatch. And usually that one thread is due to a TF2 fan coming in.
I personally hate what both games have become

>>386813630
>you realize I could compare mario kart maps with 100% crit to overwatch's GM competitive scene and make the same arguments right?
Except TF2 quickplay doesn't have the meme maps

>>386813630
Quickplay and ranked literally have no difference since you can´t pick the same character other player in your team already picked. the only difference is the round setting.
also
>Quickplay now means its a custom map
?????
TF2 has quickplay too? Is does that count as custom maps? You can´t be this fucking retarded

>>386813337
I play pyro regularly, and I fucking hated Degreaser/Axetinguisher faggots.

Stock pyro is the way to go.

>>386813337
>zero skill
lmao maybe if we're talking m1+w

I just started playing this game after a few years (quit soon after it went f2p) and I have one question: why is the matchmaking so shit? Every other game it seems like one team gets rolled, which often causes half of the losing team to leave, making the roll all the worse.

>>386813978
What Pyro playstyle takes skill? Purposely gimping yourself? Puff n Sting is the other default and it doesn't take skill, either.

>>386812371
math

>>386813189
It's mostly the maps, honestly. 2fort and Turbine are some abominations.

>>386814134
not that guy, but playing as a defensive pyro, using a lot of airblast is tough. airblasting rockets, demo projectiles, removing peopel from the payload and separating uber medics from their heavy can be insanely helpful to a team.

>>386814242
Main problem is that engineers get excellent chokepoints on those maps to shack up in. 2Fort gets the corner in the intel room, and turbine has the hallway leading to the intel room.

They're extremely hard to push through without an uber or just a buttload of teammates, and the only other way to the intel room runs close by the enemy team's spawn room.

Tie between spy and sniper. Hate them both.

>>386814571
>spy
Spy is considered the worst class in the game at this point especially with spychecking being a thing everyone does, not sure what's there to hate when he's so stripped at this point.

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Hey /v/,
yore
ugleh

soldier. No brain no skill class. Every time I play him I feel like Im cheating.
I dont care what fancy rocket jumps you can do with him its not how everyone plays. Plus demo can do all that and be fun to play

>>386814862
Yeeeeeeee

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>>386814862

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>>386814915
[HODOWN INTENSIFIES]

>>386814661
OP didn't specify playing as or against. That said I hate both classes in both cases.

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snipers are unbalanced
pyro is broken
random crits are communism

this game is dead

>>386813792
>Quickplay and ranked literally have no difference

its okay if you havent played the game anon

>>386814895
I fucking despise soldiers. All you have to do is aim in the general direction of a weaker class and you can get a kill before having to reload.

>>386815886
Stop playing as weaker classes then

>>386812371
>Least played
Spy
>Least favorite
Pyro and Demoknight

>>386812448

Shut your fucking mouth

>>386816027
Thats really weak logic anon

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What does everyone think of my spy loadout. Rather proud of it

>>386816119
Weak logic backed up by crockets, maggot.

>>386816172
Definitely looks cool but I'm a no dye kind of guy

>>386816172
>lootboxmicrotransactioncosmeticsohitsorange
please kill yourself

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>just shoot the spy bro :^)
>just listen for the decloak :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuhiBR_E1zs

>>386815534
>crits are communist

crit chance goes up per hit so it's the opposite of communism. You must be use to embarrassment because this was downright pathetic.

what is the best heavy melee weapon besides vanilla?

>>386817287
Holiday punch. Or KGB

>>386817287
GRU or Fists of Steel if you really want to win
Holiday Punch for maximum keks

>>386813302
The porn is pretty good.

>>386817287
Apoco-Fists

My friend asked me a pretty good question the other night: If in the unlikely case that the game returns to vanilla, but you can save ONE weapon, what weapon would you choose?


Personally I would choose the sandman.

>>386812371
I enjoy playing heavy the least. I hate fighting blackbox soldiers the most.

>>386818749
Apoco-Fists

>>386818749
Kritzkrieg

>>386818749
Kritzkrieg. I don't even play medic that much but I can easily pick that.

>>386818749
Sharpened Volcano Fragment

>>386818749
Gunslinger, literally adds a 10th class

>B-b-but I shit myself and can't aim so a cumguzzling nigger like me hates mini-sentries

git gud.

>>386818749
Crossbow

>>386818749
the sniper's bow.

>>386818749
>Loose Cannon for Demo
>Gunboats for Soldier
>Krtizkrieg for Medic
>Flaregun for Pyro
>Ambassador for Spy
Every other unlock can be removed and the game would be better off.

>>386812371
soldier, scout, demoman

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>>386816474
>there are people in the comments defending the Spy

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>>386820154

>>386813132
the 12 year old me would have thought this was cool.

>>386820154
They've got a point though, the Engineer shouldn't have overextended that far into the map

>>386813223
How do you check that, and or change it? This might explain a lot actually

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>>386820625

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>>386820716
Its at 60 anyway. Guess im just bad. I mean, I know I should be getting the shot but oh well

>>386820495
A 125HP class shouldn't be able to tank that much damage.

>>386821307
That is also true. Both parties were talking about different points.

>>386821532
Only one is relevant

>>386818749

Vaccinator

The black guy with the grenade launcher. He's fucking useless in my hands.

>>386818749
kritzkrieg or flare gun

>>386820214
UNCLE DANE THE SAVIOR MAIN

>>386820495
no, but the spy shouldn't have been able to do that at all in the first place

>>386822086
Uncle Dane is secretly a cunt, hiding behind his facade.

>>386822060
>The black guy with the grenade launcher
Demonstration Man?

>>386812371
Engineer and Medic aren't really fun to play as, and there's no guarantee you'll get results with them in a pub.
Right now soldiers are probably the most annoying to play against though, just because of how little skill or effort it takes for them to get free kills with spam. I know that this is the same game where Demo, Heavy, and Pyro exist, but at least people are willing to acknowledge how braindead easy they are.

>>386812371
>everyone is white
more diversity por favor

>>386822296
gunslinger isn't very good but it's fun

>>386818749
For me, it's the Mc chicken

>>386822401
Blatantly miss the nigger

>>386818749
kritz, tf2 should have ended with the medic update

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>>386812448
This
>not able to do literally a single thing against any class
>has no use in any situation outside of "oh hey guys I can airblast people, and then shoot them haha i exist"
>can't move as well as other classes
>can't damage as well as other classes
>can't support as well as other classes
>can't flank as well as other classes
>has no presence in any kind of fight unless you're in dick-sucking range
>but hey guys i can airblast haha
fuck this class is so fucking bad that it's literally irritating to think about how this could possibly come to be
what went through valve's mind when they made this trashbag of a class

What was the oddest spot you saw a sentry nest that actually won the round for the team with him?

>>386813504
I think it's the other way around. Overwatch retards tend to shit up TF2 threads with shit like "why haven't you started playing overwatch? you aren't poor are you?" or some shit like that

>>386818749
Easily bonk, raping people as they're coming out of spawn as scout will never not be fun

>>386816172
Fuck the dye, otherwise we good.

>>386812448
This. Only class I have less than 10 minutes on after 8 years and 500 hours.

>>386822178
He was a highlander engie who is now coming to see the light of 6s and how other classes can gravitate towards 6s
he will convince the casuals and the casuals will see

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>>386812371
Since so many people have said that the game has gotten worse over the years, how would you go about improving the game?

>>386813630
I've played comp overwatch (actual comp overwatch, not just matchmaking) and I've played comp TF2, and comp TF2 blows it out of the fucking water
>players in Overwatch comp pick-up games
>literally the only thing that matters to these people is winning
>despite nothing being on the line whatsoever
>generally everyone tries really hard and gets really pissy when things dont go their way
>generally tense and kind of uncomfortable mumble environment
>in pick-up games that were originally set up to have fun

>TF2 comp pick up games
>players actually play to have fun instead of just win
>the match itself actually matters more than the outcome
>people doing things that wouldn't be considered "meta" for the sake of having some fun
>cracking jokes during the game, generally pleasant mumble environment
It's probably just because Overwatch wasn't made with fun in mind, but damn every Overwatch competitive player I've ever met has had several sticks up their ass.

>>386823284
>probably just because Overwatch wasn't made with fun in mind
If the game isn't fun then why do they play it? Do they just play so they can feel like they're good at something?
OW players are always such anti fun cunts they take the game far too seriously

>>386816172
>no strange sapper
lol

>>386823258
>Give the pyro some god damn mobility options so he can be a flanking class that he was designed to be
>Give Engineer some offensive capabilities in addition to his defensive. Teleporters and the Gunslinger are a good start.
>Nerf the medic in some way. Having a team RELY on one is silly but nerf him in a way that he isn't useless
>Give Heavy more reason to be at the frontlines
>Give spy some other spy equipment, like a motion detector or an area denial thing to support his team more
>Make Valve stop having boners for Soldier and Demo
>Give scout unlocks that are useful and not gimmicks

The only one I don't know about is Snoiper

>>386823284
This
Haven't played TF2 in years, but back when I did everything was just casual fun
Overwatch is way too serious

>>386823258
Put the game in the hands of people who actually care about it, rather than a small handful of interns who never actually play the game.

>>386823258
>make pyro good
>magically fix source netcode issues
>have an actually well-implemented competitive matchmaking like CS:GO or dota
>in pubs, engineer is limited to 2 on the defending team
>nerf scout
>buff pyro so that he can be good at something besides abusing his gimmick
>nerf medic
>buff engineer so that he can support just as well as medic can
>remove sniper, just a braindead DM class that completely renders spy obsolete just by existing
>buff spy
>buff soldier's banners
>make heavy good at things that aren't just "sit in one place and wait for enemies to walk into you"
>make it so that levelling up your casual rank gives you a random weapon drop to help f2ps get unlocks faster
>add a way to "prestige" in some way or reset your casual rank so you can keep getting item drops
>add a timer to CTF
>fix the 5cp timer so that the timer resets to 4 minutes after a capture instead of fucking 10
>undo the demoman sticky nerf
>nerf crusader's crossbow
>nerf vaccinator seriously fuck this weapon i hate seeing retards who aren't good at the game pound in pubs because they have this fuckup of a weapon on them at all times
t. scout main 4,500 hours and 8 total competitive seasons played across ugc, tfcl, and esea

>>386812371
sniper
click-point adventure near spawn

>>386812371
All of them. TF2 is fucking dogshit

>>386818749
sandvich

sniper, 100%

>>386823604

Honestly, just having them stop their SOldier and Demo worshiping is enough to fix the game quite a bit. The second would be to top focusing on making TF2 a fucking e-sports game. It isn't and never was meant to be one.

They wanna ride that e-sport bullshit every younger "gamer" is into these days but Overwatch already snatched those people away.

>>386823480
the same reason why people play dota obsessively, because winning feels good to them, and that's the only reason they play it is to win. Because what else can you even do in Overwatch if you aren't winning? Fucking lose, that's what. And there's no real way to have fun while losing in Overwatch because winning is the only fun thing that you can do in Overwatch. None of the characters in the game have fun little nuances that you can fuck around with during a match, like in TF2 with rocket jumping or shit like that, literally the most fun thing you can do with a character in overwatch is press Q at the right time and see your name appear 5 times in the killfeed. That's it. And when these players aren't doing that, they're not having fun. This is why Overwatch is such a terrible fucking FPS game.

>>386823284
While Overwatch is too bland and joyless, I think TF2 does go a bit too far in the other direction. After all, it created "friendly" culture and a group of people who actively don't want to play for the objective.
The little things you can do in TF2 are great, I love the mobility Scout has with his ultra-gimmicky Atomizer+FaN combo, but there needs to be some kind of push to get everyone playing the game. Either that or make a "I'm friendly!" server option in Casual mode for the Hoovies who don't know what a fucking community server is

>>386824221
They aren't trying to make into an e-sports game? They're just trying to give the competitive community some first-party integration, no matter how shitty it is.

>>386824058
can you explain why spy needs a buff when dead ringer still exists? I haven't played in years, but I remember that thing basically being a "press rmb to not die" button

>>386824610
here's the solution: vote-kick friendlies if they're on your team, slaughter them if they're on the enemy team
sooner or later they'll take the hint

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>>386824671
>start a vote
>vote fails
>friendly starts a vote against you
>vote passes
I mean at that point I'm probably better off leaving the server anyway but still, doesn't really help cure them.

Spy, as it attracts the absolute worst kind of player. Pyro is a very close second, though the update may redeem it.

>>386824656
yeah and they actually buffed it for some reason
now it's "press rmb to not die, but also get a 75% damage reduction, and you also run faster than the scout for a few seconds." It's retarded. But I think that we need to nerf the DR and buff the Spy somehow, because Spy right now is probably the second worst class in the game next to pyro, simply because sniper exists. If we make spy have some kind of specialized role outside of killing instantly, then he can be a viable side-grade to the pick-class archetype that sniper dominates so easily.
>>386823604
Like this anon said, actually giving the spy some spying equipment that gives your team info on the enemy team would easily make him a great class that fulfills his own role. As of right now, all he can do is backstab people and sap sentries, when sentries can be easily dispatched by a soldier or demoman (meta classes that are part of every team comp in 6's), and also gets outshined by sniper because sniper does not have to be anywhere near his opponent to kill him instantly, which lets him pick off multiple targets where spy would easily die soon after getting a single pick.

all of them because its a dead game

>>386823258
>take away gunboats
this forces soldier to either use liberty launcher or rocket jumper if he wants to roam, significantly reducing roaming soldier output
>add "flare jumper"
solves main problem of pyro, doesn't add up much in terms of power
>put scatergun damage on level of normal shotgun but keep amount of pellets (analogically modify rest of scout primaries)
meatshots don't hurt so much
>give medic primaries ability to heal
doesn't have to be on par with CC, but makes them viable

>add fat scout primary
adds variety

>>386824058
>buff soldier's banners
As someone who fucking loves the banners, I'm curious what you have in mind for them?

>>386812371
scout
I'm terrible at keeping my aim on one guy while bouncing around like a kangaroo

>>386825081
when will people get tired of posting this dumb meme
I guess that GTA V is a dead game because it has less players than TF2, an also "dead" game?

>>386813302
take your pseudo-console wars elsewhere

>>386825129
>bring back pubs
>make casual just unranked ranked

>>386825129
>meatshots don't hurt so much
Might as well remove afterburn from the pyro or prevent the engie from building dispensers.

>>386825146
I'd say that the main problem with banners right now is that they're just a worse ubercharge. As it is right now, whenever a banner is used in comp, Soldier players play extremely passive and careful so they don't die and lose their charge when Soldier in itself is an aggressive class.In my opinion, they should make it so that the banner's charge doesn't reset when you die, and also, if you die while your banner is activated, instead of the banner ending and your team losing the buff, you should drop the banner where you die and the buff stays around the banner on the ground until the charge runs out. I could take this even farther and say that friendly soldiers should be able to swap their secondaries for the banner on the ground and continue the charge like that. This would allow players to go forward during a push without fear of wasting the banner by dying prematurely.

>>386812371
>class

tfw shit at tf2

>>386814862
Nice!

>>386825451
It's only 15 damage differece. Prevents from 2 shooting soldier and 3 shooting heavy.

>>386825775
which is fine. The scout has low HP, and even lower if he has a sandman. Might as well complain about the sniper capable of 1 hit killing everyone

>chasing disguised spy that ran behind a pyro
>call out spy, trying to shoot him
>pyro turns and runs to spycheck me
pyro players everyone

>>386825472
Should the charge rate on the Buff Banner and Backup be buffed to the same level as the Conch? And should the BB get a passive bonus like the other two?

>>386825867
But it makes scout to good. If you look at my other propositions my idea was to nerf roaming. Nerfed soldier roamer has to have a chance with scouts.

And scout shouldn't be able to beat heavy in face to face combat anyway, because this isn't his role.

>>386825129
>>take away gunboats
>this forces soldier to either use liberty launcher or rocket jumper if he wants to roam
Terrible idea. Nobody is going to use Liberty Launcher and/or Rocket Jumper even if gunboats ceased to exist, they'd just use stock RL with Shotgun, and the game would slow down in pace since people jumped less often.

Nobody is going to use LL or RJ in a serious game because you simply give up too much damage output when it comes to a straight fight, for too little benefit.

All removing Gunboats does is slow down the game.
>>add "flare jumper"
>solves main problem of pyro
No it doesn't. He'll still shit on bad players for no effort and he'll still be competitively unviable due to his short range and shitty damage.
>>put scatergun damage on level of normal shotgun but keep amount of pellets (analogically modify rest of scout primaries)
>meatshots don't hurt so much
Meatshots are meant to hurt, dumbass. A 125HP class got up to point blank range right in your face, putting themselves at enormous risk in doing so.
>>give medic primaries ability to heal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>adding more healing to an already slow game
>doesn't have to be on par with CC, but makes them viable
It's not going to make them as viable as Crusader's Crossbow unless you give them the same amount of healing. And even then they'll still be inferior to Crossbow because it does more damage, has faster projectiles, has better range and accuracy, builds Uber, and burst heals.
>add fat scout primary
Literally the ONLY idea in your entire post that wasn't terrible.

>>386826108
It's not face to face combat at that point, if the scout is doing his job right he'll be wiggling all over the damn place which means the heavy can't get a bead on him. This shouldn't be like overwatch where certain characters are 100% hard counters to others.

If the scout player is good enough, then he should be rewarded with the satisfaction of killing the heavy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuhiBR_E1zs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuhiBR_E1zs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuhiBR_E1zs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuhiBR_E1zs

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>>386825146
Not him, but I would reduce the charge requirement for the Buff Banner and Battalion's Backup from 600 damage to 500 damage.

Currently the only Soldier Banner that people really use is the Concheror. It takes 480 damage to charge while the others take 600. So reducing the charge requirement for Buff and Backup would make them roughly on par with the Concheror in that respect.

I wouldn't do anything else other than that.
> they should make it so that the banner's charge doesn't reset when you die, and also, if you die while your banner is activated, instead of the banner ending and your team losing the buff, you should drop the banner where you die and the buff stays around the banner on the ground until the charge runs out. I could take this even farther and say that friendly soldiers should be able to swap their secondaries for the banner on the ground and continue the charge like that
Overcomplicated idea which doesn't really add anything to the game. Good solutions are simple solutions.
>This would allow players to go forward during a push without fear of wasting the banner by dying prematurely
They tried this with Medigun pickups off the ground, and it was terrible for the game's pace, it just lead to fights being basically won at mid. It also grants a large advantage to attackers, who respawn more often, over defenders.

>>386813302
Most people take Overwatch too seriously.
Me and most of my friends dropped it.

>>386826256
Stop posting this shit video. The Dead Ringer is getting fixed soon and the Engineer is retarded for following the Spy around that far.

forgot to quote >>386825472 in >>386826408

>>386825986
I think if the charge doesn't reset on death, it should take longer to charge in order to offset this change, so I'd say to bring the conch to the level of the banner and backup. If the only changes we get to the banners is charge time reworks, then yes, the buff banner and backup should charge as fast as conch. And yeah, the buff banner should get a passive to actually give players a reason to use it other than "you get minicrits sometimes." imo the passive effects given to the conch and the backup were a great way to make them more attractive options when compared to the gunboats or the shotgun

They need to remove the crit resistance on the Battalions Backup. It completely shuts down what would be its only counter.

>>386826559
>the Engineer is retarded for following the Spy around that far
That changes absolutely nothing. The logic in repeating this over and over does not exist.

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>>386826559
>soon
UPDATE
FUCKING
WHEN

>>386826108
Scout's role is "run fast, do lots of damage, die easily."
If you turn him into "Run fast, do some damage, die easily" then he turns into TFC scout which was just pure shit
He's meant to be able to win 1v1s against the entire cast, he shouldn't be nerfed. Roaming soldier actually does beat scout in several situations, though, like if a scout and a soldier are fighting in I.T. on process, the soldier is going to win 90% of the time because the scout has no room to use his mobility.

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>>386812371
Scout, he's the one class I can't seem to get a grip on. I can land pills, rockets, and headshots fairly consistently, but for some reason meatshots elude me. A couple good scouts can be an absolute fucking nightmare to play against. Oh, and fuck DR spies.

>>386826136
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>adding more healing to an already slow game
I don't see a problem with this. Most of the "slow" in this game comes from how long it takes to heal buff players before pushing.

Post FemPyro

>>386819191
I remember before the mini sentry meme I got screamed at for going gunslinger engy because the "mini sentry was useless".
E-celebs ruin vidya.

>>386813098
>CTF is so shit it's already ruined even without the engineer
Not true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm1ajobCgxA

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>>386812371
Engineer

Fucking tired of payload lasts turning into 6 engineer shitfests.

>>386813504
>I don't think about you at all
Pretty much half of what I've seen of the Overwatch community is them being insecure over other games. In either TF2, Paladins, sometimes Gigantic, fuck, even QUAKE threads, it's OW fans that come in, holding back tears, with forced jokes about other games.
TF2 is too concerned about it's own shitty dev team than a game that is barely in the same genre. What a shitty meme.

>>386825986
I think more reserve ammo for RLs would be a nice passive bonus for BB.

>>386826906
No one cares about TFC
As shitty as tfc is at least ctf isnt a snooze fest but still

>>386826992
A very small passive reload boost might be better, for those cm5k users.

>>386826227
Heavy is pretty weak against even stock scout. With soda poper and/or Milk/Cola, unless heavy has natasha or scout just instaled the game, he's pretty much dead.

Scout should be distraction against high HP classes, not reliable way to take them down.

>>386826780
It's a team game. There is also difference between being able to win 1v1 against anyone as oppose to destroing anyone who isn't a soldier.

>>386826559
>the engineer is retarded
honestly I would have done the same thing just to see how far down the crutch rabbit whole goes.

>>386823480
>If the game isn't fun then why do they play it?
Why do people watch and enjoy the Emoji Movie? The Despicable Me movies? Adam Sandler films?
there you go

>>386812371
spy
its not really that I dislike the mechanics, just that Im awful at them and have no desire to learn to be good with them

>>386823258
>Soldier
Rocket Launchers base speed is increased to 1300 and the minimum splash is reduced to 35%, up ramp up to 133%
>Heavy
Minigun now fires 6 damage bullets 6 at a time instead of 8 damage bullets 4 at a time.
>Engineer
Increase Wrench swing speed to .5 instead of .8
>Medic
Undo his recent regen and speed tethering buffs
>Spy
Decrease decloak time to 1.5, make the decloak sound have the same max distance as the Dead Ringer


Pyro just needs a total rework.

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>>386812371
Engie tends to be my favorite toon because I enjoy watching the physics of his Shotgun Bullets bounce off the wall while killing spies.

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>>386826826
>Most of the "slow" in this game comes from how long it takes to heal buff players before pushing
You don't understand. The time it takes to heal players before pushing isn't the cause of slowness at all.

Team Fortress Classic had almost zero healing (no health packs, no Medigun, no Dispenser leveling up), and it was an enormously fast-paced game, both in terms of victory time and movement speed. Why? I'll tell you.

I want you to understand these important words:
HEALING SLOWS DOWN THE GAME.

In order for the game to end and a winner to be declared, all the objectives need to be captured.
In order for objectives to be captured, enemy players who can defend them need to be killed.
In order to kill enemy players, you need to damage them until they die or are forced to retreat.

Thus, we can logically say that damage causes the game to speed up.

Healing on the other hand is anti-damage. It slows down the game. It reduces the punishment for failing to dodge, and allows players to defend objectives for longer without needing to retreat, thus preventing the game from ending.

Imagine, if you will, a team of 6 Medics fighting a team of 6 Medics. Do you think that the game would end quickly? It wouldn't take long for everyone to be "buffed before pushing", like you said. So why wouldn't it be fast?

Because healing slows down the game, damage speeds up the game, and Medic is a class with little damage and a lot of healing.

Your idea of giving the Syringe Guns healing would require them to have more healing than the Medigun to be worth it, because otherwise nobody is going to use the Syringe Gun (which can miss, needs to reload and has finite ammo) to heal instead of the Medigun (which can't miss, has infinite clip and infinite ammo). So you'd be giving the Medic even more healing, and that would slow down TF2 even more.

That's why giving Syringe Gun healing on-hit is a bad idea.

>>386826408
>attackers, who respawn more often
not always the case in 5cp, it varies depending on the map. In some cases, such as badlands, the team who's been pushed back to last actually respawns even faster. imo the comparison between banner charge and medigun on the ground charge is kind of dumb because medic, as a class, was designed so that dying would hurt the entire team. Soldier is a class that's meant to go forward and fight the enemy team, so putting too much value on his life is counter-intuitive. The reason why the medigun change was rolled back is because medic is a class that's supposed to have inherent value on his life, and being able to just pick his medi-gun back up after he dies removed some of that value. However, a Soldier player trying not to take risks during a push because his banner is activated, and dying would hurt his team, is one of the main reasons why banners aren't used.

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>>386826993
Whether or not anybody cares about it, it's a good example of how CTF could actually work in TF2 if TF2's class lineup wasn't so defensively biased.

Right now TF2 has 8 classes which can be used well on defense, and 6 classes which can be used well on offense. There are no dedicated offensive-only classes in TF2, but there are dedicated defensive-only classes.
That means that any team making an aggressive move for the flag is at a disadvantage.
So neither team wants to be the aggressor and both defend, leading to a stalemate.

That's why CTF doesn't work in TF2.

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>>386827827

>>386827894
first i forget the image, then i forget to type "forgot image"
i really need to go to sleep

>>386818749
Pre nerf babyface blaster

>>386827876
>There are no dedicated offensive-only classes in TF2
Eh...what about scout
or even spy to some extent

>>386818749
Vaccinator.
Encourages teamwork in TF2 more than any other weapon, and hard counters aimbots.

>>386827876
I Personally just think maps have too many choke points and unlike the previous 2 team fortresses the sentry is real good at dishing damage fast.

Like most classes its a maximum of 2 seconds before you're dead from a sentry.

Maps should've been made to have multiple routes, maybe some routes not easily defended by an engineer and his girlfriend pyro.


It's either that, or you have a very broring class to play(QWTF/TFC Engineer)

Also I would say Scout is a dedicated offensive. He cant defend well against a soldier or a heavy with a medic even if his scatter does decent damage

>>386827719
6 medics vs 6 medics wouldn't be slow because of healing, it would be slow because it's 12 fucking medics fighting eachother.

Yeah damage can cause the game to start moving, but on the opposite side of the same coin it can also bring the game to a halt. Spamming chokepoints with explosions doesn't speed the game up, it prevents the other team from moving, which slows the game down.

>Healing on the other hand is anti-damage. It slows down the game. It reduces the punishment for failing to dodge, and allows players to defend objectives for longer without needing to retreat, thus preventing the game from ending.

So what if the game was sped up by healing in a parallel situation?
for instance, a red scout and a blu scout are fighting eachother for control of red's last point, with a medic on the sidelines. whoever wins this 1v1 wins the round. The red scout hits a meatshot early into the fight, but the blu scout gets arrowed by the medic and ends up winning the fight because he was healed, and the round ended quicker than it would have if he hadn't gotten healed there and died instead.

Your logic is flawed. Damage can slow down the game, and Healing can speed up the game, it all depends on the situation.

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>most TF2 players will never know the joys of TF2 Classic deathmatch mode
What's your excuse? It's free and lots of fun.

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As man on fire how use walled red hose?????


how to reprogram cannons with french businessman

how can carpenter put soda machine

how does outback shooterman piss on wankers

As secret agent how use radio?

how do outback steakhouse guy do the telescope

jump high as sports player

what button to glow ghost buster

how outback man get lemonade

how do i shoot air as masked ignition man?

how somali pirate get pegleg

>>386822601
Honestly what the fuck could they possibly do in the update to make Pyro interesting and useful?

>>386828018
Scout is best on defense actually, because he won't have to worry about getting fucked by his only counter, sentries, when he's patrolling his base

>>386828018
>Eh...what about scout
I should have been more specific in explaining.
You hardly ever see Engineer, Heavy, or Pyro run on offense in symmetrical game modes. However, you do often see Scout ran on defense in 6s often.
Scout is less useful on defense than other classes, but only to a small extent. That's what I meant by "cannot be used well on defense" as opposed to "offensive-only".
>or even spy to some extent
Nope, he is useful both on offense and defense. Defending sides send him out to stab attackers in the back as they push in fairly often.

>>386828243
Lightning gun

I like every class, but if yoi're going to talk in matter of who plays them, sniper.
As a sniper main, sniper is the class with one of the biggest ammount of weebs, toxic players, tryhards, and other despicables.

>>386828208
Crappy ass tommy gun model for one.

Crappy revolver model for 2

Crappy DM Model for 3, let us play as the mercs, not your oc donut steel character

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>>386828236
How is it that every single pub I join has one guy ask 'How do I change class'? Am I being memed on?

>>386828243
They just need to make him more mobile to reinforce his flanking role.
Something like an airblast/flame jump would help a little bit.
Or just enable bunnyhopping on him.

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>>386828243
>Increase the range of the Flamethrower so it can hit people
>Decrease the width of the Flamethrower so it requires aim
>Give the Pyro an "airblast jump": Pressing M2 while jumping knocks you back, like the Force-A-Nature. This will give Pyro the mobility to get in range of attacking, or to get to mid quickly
>buff afterburn damage from 6 DPS to 8 DPS (same as huo-long heater)

>>386828391
how fireman hammertime

>>386827719
The Medic has his healing ramp up because they didn't want TFC style suicide wave tactics, they would rather players keeping fighting then die and wait to respawn or worse have instant respawn.

Healing is 24hps at base level ffs, if you can't do more DPS than that you should maybe try playing Overwatch instead.

>>386828374
>Crappy ass tommy gun model for one.
It's an optional weapon that doesn't replace and preexisting ones. Also that's an opinion, it looks fine to me.
>Crappy revolver model for 2
The new utilitarian looking one makes more sense as opposed to the fancy one for spy. Also opinion.
>Crappy DM Model for 3, let us play as the mercs, not your oc donut steel character
The merc is a whole new class with different stats, the gamemode wouldn't be balanced with the different hitboxes and health and such. If it were that way it would just be arena mode but with respawns.

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>>386812371
Sniper followed by Medic. I just can't get into them.

>>386828593
I dont care.
Shit Tommygun
Shit Revolver
Shit OC Character

Enjoy your dead mod

>>386824058
I've always thought sniper added nothing worthwhile, but how can you possibly justify completely removing a class ten years later

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>>386828654
Jeez, you're kind of a bitch.

>>386828243
>LG style flamethrowers
>Airblast replaced with alt beam that slowly pulls targets at half damage and twice the ammo cost
>Jetpack that uses primary ammo at a fast rate.

The thing about LG flamethrowers is that finally Scout will have a decent counter.

>>386818749
Piss for sniper, or gunboats for soldier.

>>386812371
Spy, I have no idea how to play him right but he's easy to find and hunt down.

also god scouts

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>>386828205
>6 medics vs 6 medics wouldn't be slow because of healing, it would be slow because it's 12 fucking medics fighting eachother.
Oh for fuck's sake, how have I not gotten this through your brain yet?

You say that it wouldn't be slow because of healing, it would be slow because of Medics.
What do you think Medics FUCKING DO?
>but the blu scout gets arrowed by the medic and ends up winning the fight because he was healed, and the round ended quicker than it would have if he hadn't gotten healed there and died instead.
Your scenario is flawed because only ONE team is healing.

Let's try it with BOTH teams healing.
Your scenario:
>RED Scout gets a meatshot early in the fight, BLU Scout is on 25HP
>BLU Scout gets a heal and hits the RED Scout
>RED Scout hits him again but doesn't kill him, BLU Scout hits RED scout
>RED Scout is dead

Scenario where BOTH teams have healing:
>The red scout hits a meatshot early into the fight, bringing the BLU scout down to 25
>the blu scout gets healed and hits a meatshot on the red scout
>the red scout also gets healed and hits a meatshot on the blu scout
>(repeat)
>the red scout kills the BLU scout

Scenario with no healing whatsoever:
>RED Scout hits the BLU Scout first, bringing him down to 25
>RED Scout and BLU Scout hit each other
>BLU Scout dies

The game, yet again, ended up taking longer because of healing. It adds a bunch of confounding steps that just make the fighting process take longer.

>>386816172
>pink paint
>paint in general
>missing a strange sapper

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>tfw when entire team gets massacred by some soldier\heavy with a pocket every time they try to do anything
>tfw that one fucking spy who facestabs everyone who tries to melee him so everyone has to try shooting him while he potshots them with his ambassador
>tfw someone runs up to me as heavy and fucking dodges the minigun and melees me to death
how do I git gud, even with a decent team unusual soldier and friends completely fuck everyone over

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>>386828530
Okay so for starters I'm not complaining about the ramp-up mechanic. I'm talking about healing in general.

I'm fully aware of that blogpost http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=1656 but it doesn't contradict my general argument.
>if you can't do more DPS than that you should maybe try playing Overwatch instead
It's not about my personal skill level you dumb faggot. The game progresses slowly even at the highest level of competitive gameplay, specifically because there are so many defensive elements and Medic's healing is so powerful.

And Overwatch is a slow as hell game too because of specifically healing, shields, and revives.

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>>386812371
>no one ever talk about TF2 anymore
>Overwatch get an update
>TF2 ponies feel threatened and start shitting threads about hat simulator on /v/
Every. Time.

I can't fucking stand Pyro mains. 9/10 times they're a furry, plus they're obnoxious and probably use the phlog.

>>386830019
>probably use the phlog
you could at least pretend you are a good player

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what're your thoughts on this gun?

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>>386823258
Remove random spread and crits
Increase scattergun spread slightly
Revert stickybomb airdet penalty
Let demo use gunboats
Remove shimmer on touch on spy
Reduce revolver spread slightly
Increase cloak damage resistance to 40%
Sapper can be thrown on cooldown
Sapper can cripple the medigun for a short period of time (have to be uncloaked). Reveals uber % as well.
Holding R with spy fakes a reload
Holding RMB with spy lets him run at full speed while disguised
Medics can no longer overheal each other
Revert crossbow uber building and heal target speed changes
Nerf ubersaw, shorter uber duration maybe?
Remove rampup and falloff on syringe gun
Syringes can heal teammates, slightly faster than medigun
Significantly increase sniper rifle reload time
Remove sniper rifle headshot delay
Sniper rifle cannot crit within 256hu
Lower snipers base speed to 93% (same as demo)
Revert gunslinger changes, remove knockback and aimpunch instead
Move wrangler shield to the engineer like dane suggested
Engineers can no longer upgrade or speedup teammate buildings only repair
Engineers can no longer take metal from teammate dispensers
Add the mini dispenser (100 health, builds fast, greater range, but only heals 10hps and no ammo)
Add the boost pad (same as whip effect)
Increase conch charge amount to 600
Fix flamethrower bugs
Change airblast to direction based, doesn't reset momentum
Airblast effectiveness proportional to class weight (heavy barely moves, scout goes flying)
Make airblast hitbox a cone
Make flame cones more narrow across the board
Increase flame range by 25%
Revert axtinguisher changes
Reduce powerjack speed bonus to 10%, make it passive
Powerjack no longer gives health, -50% damage
Revert degreaser switch speed penalty, reflected projectiles don't minicrit, airblast cost is now 33
Remove demoknight because it's fucking dumb

Map changes
Payload starts and stops moving on touch, x1 speed
Touching intel returns it to your base
5cp timer cap reduced significantly

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>>386829641
Bomb or snipe the med, followed by a laugh taunt until he leaves the server. Unless of course your entire team is composed of default scouts and spies, in which case you should just leave since you're going to get rolled hard.

>>386830152
idea>execution

>>386829667
I swear you sound like the people who complain about Quake Duels taking too long because you can just bunnyhop away. You are literally complaining that in combat healing is too much, If you want a game that have little to no healing go play games like Counter Strike and R6:Siege.

>>386830209
even after the update that removed that dumbass reload bug?

>>386822775
>I think it's the other way around.
Of course you do. It's called "bias".

>>386830152
Sharpened volcano fragment tier garbage that desperately needs to be buffed.
My idea is this:
>alt-fire can now absorb projectiles as well as fire for crits, but absorbing a projectile makes the alt fire unusable for a few seconds
>also give it a goddamn reload animation, that shit will never stop annoying me

>>386830456
It's a flare gun with infinite ammo that can put out team mates for free infinitely. To call it volcano fragment tier is really stretching it

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>>386812371
Sniper, I hate snipers in every way shape and form. I hate playing as them but most of all against them. The only counterplay for most classes is staying out of their sights. Its such a one sided battle that I wouldnt even call it a battle.

>>386830301
stopped playing when MYM was released, haven't got a chance to tried it

but I guess it would make it good

Medic for being a pointless, unfun to play, yet 100% necessary for a good team composition because of balance deliberately shifted in their favor to make them artificially useful like all healing classes in any game

>>386824058
>buff soldier's banners
>fighting against conch+blackbox soldiers is already a nightmare
please, stop, no more
>undo the demoman sticky nerf
there's a reason for it to be nerfed, spamming that shit was op

>>386830589
I think engy should be shifted from a super defense to a semi support that can zone but needs setup. If dispensers can heal from a longer range but sentries are a bit weaker he will become a viable secondary healer without nullifying medic as a tie breaker.

>>386813132
stop posting this

>>386812371

I despise spy.

Every single fucking thing he does feels cheap. The only other class that 1h kos not counting taunt kills is sniper, and he's almost entirely skill based. Granted it's annoying to die to someone who you can't even attack but honestly it's worse when it's a spy.

Which is why I play pyro more than anything else. And because I like a lot of mechanics it has, but I'd be lying if I said killing spies isn't a huge part of it.

>>386812448
this

>Hurr Pyro is a shit weak class
>People propose various way to improve it
>Hurr no, that's a bad idea, too strong
I came to the conclusion people just hate Pyro period and no amount of balance will make them change idea.
Just roll with it, Pyrobros.

>>386823258
Removing or nerfing gunboats is a start. Soldier is straight up to mobile and gunboats remove the punishment of rocket jumping. Jumping should be done with health packs in mind not with the gunboats in mind.

Mercy

>>386831032
Being too reliant on Medics and health packs is part of the reason Heavy is so imbalanced, Soldier shouldn't be the same way.

>>386830520
>It's a flare gun with infinite ammo that can put out team mates for free infinitely.
You'd literally have to spam flares for at least 32 seconds without acquiring any more ammo from crates/corpses to actually run out of flares, so that's a complete non-issue.
Extinguishing teammates barely even matters with how pointless afterburn has become, but there's only one flamethrower that can't airblast and it sucks too. Nobody has any reason to use the manmelter unless they're running phlog or backburner, and in those cases they'd be more effective using the detonator/scorch shot so they could flank and build meter more effectively.
I'll admit it's not quite as worthless as the volcano fragment, but it's still badly underpowered in every situation.

>>386831032

I don't think you realize how fucking good shotty is for soldier.

Gunboats are only even close to op in casual, because shitters can't plan around him having less rockets from jumping all over. With a shotgun he's less mobile but he also has a fallback before the long rl reload, unlike gunboats who would be in a bad spot once all rockets are out. You can still jump without them anyway you just gotta be smarter with the jumps.

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>>386830301
It wasn't a bug, it was a legitimate stat. You're confusing Manmelter with Cow Mangler, which had a reload speed bug.
>>386830210
Comparing me to other people won't get us anywhere.
>You are literally complaining that in combat healing is too much
Yes, I am. It's too much and that is evidenced by the long waiting periods in competitive play that are caused directly by Medic's unlimited high-rate healing which remove attrition.
Quick-Fix is all the evidence you need as to what happens when you add more healing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalWDhYfdeg

>>386830156
>Remove random spread and crits
opinion discarded

>>386831348
Ah wait, it wasn't a bug, it was just an unlisted stat. Which makes it even dumber.
I thought the reload speed thing for the mangler was a intentional nerf too, god that was awful too. I'm so glad the cow mangler got unfucked.

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>>386831394

>>386831498
>If people like a mechanic that Valve added specifically to increase the enjoyability of the casual game they must be baiting
I suppose you also hate dicerolls in D&D, mystery boxes in Mario Kart and random block spawns in Tetris?

Random crits sacrifice a little fairness and skill in exchange for fun.
If you don't find them fun or you value fairness and skill more than fun, then go play competitive or on a nocrits server.
Stop bitching that crits should be taken away from the large part of TF2's community who find them fun, when you have other options.

>>386812371
Spy. I can't git gud with him

>>386831698
Ironically, the real issue with random crits in casual play is that they aren't completely random.

How about this?
>Sniper rework
>Goal make him less of an assassin and more of a support, this would make spy a better class as well.
>Remove charge meter
>Bodyshots now deal 100 damage
>Headshots deal 125 damage, of all combat classes only scout can now be headshot but he should be hard to hit anyways
>Unscoped hit deal 60 damage.
>Attack rate is now twice as fast, from 1.5 seconds inbetween shots to 0.75 inbetweem shots.
Sniper should now function more as a zoner/nuker. Combined with a teammate sniper is now way more deadly because of his ability to take of chuncks of health fast and from a safe distance but he is weaker alone because he cant oneshot anymore this makes him more of a DPS bassd finisher or nuker that is usefull with a good team instead of an assassin that just needs to pick off one key target. He is also still capable of taking out engies and other snipers quickly.
Heavy is no longer countered by sniper as he cannot be oneshot anymore hopefully being better on offence but he does need some changes. Maybe the max overheal on him should be nerfed but I am not sure about that.

>>386812371
heavy i guess
>slow as fuck
>most people in pubs just run into you
>spies and snipers like to poke you
>having to care for medics all the time or i'll feel bad for them

>>386812371
It's scout and sniper because I use a track pad with a broken left-mouse button on my laptop. Also I'm terrible with spy because I'm painfully obviously a spy while being a spy. I'm a real solid medic and engineer though. I'm a defensive person.

>>386828236
How place soda machine with calculator cowboy?
How to use chameleon with tuxedo terrorist?
How launch burger with girth man?

>>386828243
>Flamethrowers deal more damage to buildings
>Flamethrowers are hitscan
>Pyro gets an air mobility option (jetpack/airblast jump/buff detonator and scorch shot's blast/ whatever)
>Pyro can use Soldier's support secondaries (buff banner/concheror/...) and pain train
>Afterburn deals slightly more damage
>Airblast has a bigger radius

>>386831930
They aren't completely random, because another benefit of crits is to help snowballing so that pub 5CP games don't last forever.

>>386813227
if you airburst stickies on the demo its fucking brutal

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>>386831698
>>If people like a mechanic that Valve added specifically to increase the enjoyability of the casual game
Random crits only benefit above average players
Of those players only the very top percentage will get them often enough to outweigh the negativity bias
Random crits benefit demo and soldier significantly more than the other classes
Random crits are one of the main reasons why spy is terrible
Random crits have no counterplay and there is no way to predict them
Random crits do not make the game more interesting as 3x damage is almost always instakill
Random crits are a poor way to break stalemates and give attackers a large advantage on payload and ad maps

Random crits are a shit mechanic and there is no defending them, fuck off retard.

>>386831971
That's almost how you play a piss rifle Sniper. Aka the best way to play Sniper.

>>386831971
Some problems with your idea.
>>Goal make him less of an assassin and more of a support
That's not really necessary. Spy is more suited to being a support class than Sniper is.
>this would make spy a better class as well
How?
>>Headshots deal 125 damage, of all combat classes only scout can now be headshot but he should be hard to hit anyways
There is now no soft counter to Heavy's enormous bulk of 300HP/450HP overhealed. Games become teams full of stacked Heavies slowly grinding at each other across the map while Spies try to backstab them and get mowed down by bullets.

>>386832347
Pub 5cp games last forever because of engie spam and buildings ignore crits.
So there goes your dumbass argument.

>>386832338
>>Flamethrowers deal more damage to buildings
I don't know about this, but I'd like it if pyro's flares did more damage to buildings so that he could harass them from outside sentry range like the soldier or sniper.

Please Valve keep random crits.

>>386832602
Okay, just for you

>>386832602
as someone who hates RNG bullshit. I think random crits need to stay in, they're supposed to be there for those rare moments when someone who by all rights should probably lose the encounter they're in, but they get a random crit and turn the tides, potentially saving them and their team from defeat

Granted most of the time it just fucks you over and you often get people steamrolling you critting your ass all the time too, but I still think they should stay.
Plus I think crit melees that send people flying are always funny

>>386832384
Man I forgot random cries were in tf2. I remember now it's one of the reasons I stopped playing

>>386812371
Spy

>>386832591
On paper, the homewrecker exist. But in practice, I've seen no Pyro using it to destroy buildings outside of very rare occasions.
No good Medic would uber a Homewrecker Pyro to destroy a nest, no Spy would work with a Pyro to sap a nest so the Pyro can destroy it.
Pyro needs a better way to deal with buildings, he's an attack class, and the flamethrower is the only way.

>>386812371
The heavy, no mobility make me nervous. I like soldiers, demo and scout more

Post your favorite TF2 vids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtQXmUolktk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3oKgHKDztw

>>386832536
Spy is now the only class that can oneshot so he is way better as an assassination character now. Especially because he can oneshot heavy.
I honestly think heavy should be changed. Just like engie he is to good on defense and to bad on offence, this should be changed somehow but I am not quite sure how yet. Engy also has this problem and should be changed aswell.

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>>386814242
>hating the two best ctf in tf2
>getting bullied by tiny engineer because you're so ugly no medic in town want to go out with you

Fag

>>386832695
Random crits to me are one of the things that make tf2 more fun than most fps games. Because luck is fun. And I'm tired after 10 years to focus on muh skill. There is a point where hardcore gaming stops being fun.

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>>386832384
>Random crits only benefit above average players
>Because I have a graph my opinion is right
Crits have a ramping chance but they're still pseudorandom. This means that the lowliest player with the lowliest possible K/D can get a random crit on a pubstomper they'd never get a chance at killing otherwise.

This makes things more interesting for pubstompers since newbies can actually be a credible threat if you don't dodge their attacks, and it makes things more interesting for new players because they actually get a kill on the pubstomper.

And making judgements on whether players enjoy crits based on their KD is flat out wrong. Don't try and deny it.
>Random crits do not make the game more interesting as 3x damage is almost always instakill
That's what makes them interesting nigger.
>Random crits are one of the main reasons why spy is terrible
Wrong. Spy isn't even "terrible" in pubs, the only place where random crits are active. Spy is terrible because he's countered by basic awareness.
>Random crits benefit demo and soldier significantly more than the other classes
Sorry, I forgot random crits don't triple Scout's damage.
>Random crits have no counterplay and there is no way to predict them
Straight up lie.
It's called
DODGING
you dumb faggot.
>Random crits are a poor way to break stalemates
Yes, but either way if you removed them stalemates would get worse.
>Random crits are a shit mechanic and there is no defending them, fuck off retard
Right, the game designers that made the best class-based FPS of all time are retards.

No, nigger, you are the retard.

>>386832749
>On paper, the homewrecker exist. But in practice, I've seen no Pyro using it to destroy buildings outside of very rare occasions.
That's because he'd have to get close to use it, and at that range he may as well just use the flamethrower to wreck the sentry and everything near it simultaneously. The flamethrower is only going to tear through sentry nests during an uber push, and it already does that anyway (assuming he can get close). I think the homewrecker should have a knockback reduction effect so that it can help the pyro with uber pushes even if he's not using it as a weapon, which he probably won't.

Technically flares can already harass engineers from outside sentry range, they just do crap damage to buildings. Literally all you'd have to do is buff the damage flares do to buildings, and he could actually be a threat to them when he's not ubered.

>>386832583
>Pub 5cp games last forever because of engie spam and buildings ignore crits
And if random crits didn't exist pub 5CP games would last even longer. That's the point of the argument you dumb fuck.

>>386833041
>Right, the game designers that made the best class-based FPS of all time are retards.
They are though, for letting the game turn to utter shit

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>>386833137
It's not them retard, I bet the original team is dead since years and the only peoples left are fat gabe and his army of hat chancellors working on stealing more and more money by using misc and microtransaction.

It's like with the silent hill team all over again.

Shit, last valve game was portal 2.

>>386833074
Agreed on all the line.

>>386832872
>Especially because he can oneshot heavy
The thing is that Spy does not really counter Heavy anywhere near like Sniper does.
Heavy firing his Minigun while rotating completely and utterly prevents Spy from approaching his back. Get someone to watch Heavy's back for him (eg: a Medic who turns around every few seconds) and Spy is rendered totally useless.
On the other hand, Sniper can kill Heavy instantly, in a single 450 damage headshot from any range. That's what makes him good at shutting down enemy teams if they spam Heavy by killing each one in a single shot.
Take that out of the equation, change Sniper's burst to sustained damage like you're suggesting, and now Sniper takes significantly longer to kill each Heavy, because he can't do it in 1 shot any more, which means Heavies can get heals in the meantime to survive.
>I honestly think heavy should be changed. Just like engie he is to good on defense and to bad on offence, this should be changed somehow but I am not quite sure how yet
Heavy actually does need to be changed, I agree. But I don't see why it's necessary to change Sniper.

>>386816172
gr8

>>386812371
Sniper is fucking cancer. Herp derp lets have a bunch of guys on the other end of the map instakilling/knocking us down to crit the second we leave our bases without any direct way to fight back, that'd be excellent gameplay. So the only way to stop getting instakilled out of the blue is to either dedicate your life to stomping the little retards as soon as they come out of their base, or hope someone else decides to do the same.

>>386833041
>Crits have a ramping chance but they're still pseudorandom
That doesn't mean there isn't an average. Above average players benefit from crits more often than below average players this is a fact.

>This means that the lowliest player with the lowliest possible K/D can get a random crit on a pubstomper they'd never get a chance at killing otherwise.
And that pubstomper probably killed them 5x over with random crits so how is that a net positive for the bad player?

>This makes things more interesting for pubstompers since newbies can actually be a credible threat if you don't dodge their attacks
Except there isn't counterplay so it's not a matter of the pubstomper having to change up his strategy. Either he gets a random crit and wins the fight or he doesn't.

>That's what makes them interesting nigger.
A battle ending instantly isn't interesting as explained above. You could make that argument for a comeback mechanic that is predictable but a dice roll doesn't add anything.

>Wrong. Spy isn't even "terrible" in pubs, the only place where random crits are active
Spy has to walk through spam filled chokepoints every life with only 125 hp without the mobility to dodge damage. Random crits are a constant threat. Also two classes spy focuses on, medic and engie, usually have maxed out melee crit chance making them much more of a threat than they should be. Giving the enemy medic a free ubersaw kill can cost the game for your team.

>Sorry, I forgot random crits don't triple Scout's damage.
>What is splash damage
>What is spread

>It's called DODGING you dumb faggot
Even the best TF2 players in the world still die to random crits frequently when they play in pubs. Avoiding damage 100% of the time isn't realistic and you know this, especially in a game like TF2 where ammo is plentiful and spam is effective. Cut the bullshit.

>>386826559
That's not the point. The point is a 125 class repeatedly hitting RMB and picking up ammo and surviving accurate shots from a shotgun repeatedly.

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>>386833041
>Yes, but either way if you removed them stalemates would get worse.
Or valve could look at what is causing these stalemates in the first place and fix them properly. Random crits are a half assed solution.

>Right, the game designers that made the best class-based FPS of all time are retards.
Right because TF2 at release had no issues whatsoever.

>And if random crits didn't exist pub 5CP games would last even longer.
Random crits DON'T exist to buildings so it wouldn't matter either way. Again shitty half assed solution.

Go back to r/tf2 you fucking retard.

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>People defending random crits
>People defending axtinguisher nerfs

>>386833546
> with only 125 hp without the mobility to dodge damage
You mean with the dead ringer to tank literally all the damage and get a speed boost.

>>386833824
I still play Postal Pummeler. It might not be nearly as effective as pre-nerf, but puff and axtinguish is sex to me.

>>386812371
Pyro by far, mostly because afterburn is just annoying as fuck. Just think about it. Even the most retarded person can hit you once as Pyro, it takes 0% skill, you just have to be somewhat near the enemy for a second. Also flare gun with explosives.

Not every retarded faggot should have such an easy chance on inflicting 50-100 damage to the enemy, though. That's just wrong.

>>386833831
Yeah and this is what happens >>386816474
Dead ringer is getting nerfed for a reason

How can people play TF2 cmopetitively when random crits exist?

>>386833893
Yeah, I do that too sometimes, but it's not the same now.

>>386833972
There are no random crits in comp.

>>386833943
Thank god for that. A spy showing up momentarily in your base should not be a dedicated full minute witch hunt around ammopacks.

>>386833972
Maybe because you can turn it off for competition, genius?

I don't like sniper, most of the time it's just sitting doing nothing waiting for someone to run by.

My favorite is probably demoman or pyro, they're able to wreak the most havoc if you play it correctly.

>>386824058
stopped reading at
>remove sniper
anyone thinking unironically that valve will add/remove a class is a braindead moron.
Just learn to strafe and crouch, crybaby, once you get close, it's an easy kill.

>>386834051
You seem to be playing Camper and not Sniper

>>386833546
>Above average players benefit from crits more often than below average players this is a fact
Sure, but above average players are going to be killing below average players way more often anyway. So crits change nothing there.
Let's say it normally takes newbie mcnewfag 10 shots to kill xXpubstomperXx, while it takes the pubstomper 3 shots to kill the new player.
Random crits change this situation so that just 1 of the new player's shots landing can kill the pubstomper in a single hit.
>And that pubstomper probably killed them 5x over with random crits so how is that a net positive for the bad player?
Because they were going to die to the pubstomper crits or no crits.
However, the new player NEEDS crits to kill the pubstomper.
Net positive.
>Except there isn't counterplay
D - O - D - G - I - N - G
When pubstomper kills new player in 3 hits and new player kills pubstomper in 10 hits, and pubstomper has a medic behind him, the pubstomper hardly has to bother with dodging at all.
When every attack carries a small threat of an instant kill, the pubstomper is encouraged to dodge every attack as though it were lethal, making playing against even complete retards have an element of surprise.
>Spy has to walk through spam filled chokepoints every life with only 125 hp without the mobility to dodge damage
You're missing the point. Spy isn't terrible in pubs. Spy frequently tops scoreboards in pubs.
Spy is only terrible in competitive play. Where there are no random crits. This is why it is dumb to blame random crits for Spy being bad.
>Giving the enemy medic a free ubersaw kill can cost the game for your team.
Do you have no idea how Ubersaw works? You gain 25% Uber on hit, not 100% Uber on kill.
Killing a Spy with a random crit makes him give LESS Uber than he otherwise would.
>Even the best TF2 players in the world still die to random crits frequently when they play in pubs
No, they don't die "frequently". How about YOU cut YOUR bullshit?

>>386832749
>Pyro needs a better way to deal with buildings, he's an attack class
Classifications are irrelevant and forced just to fit the 3/3/3 model. Heavy is a "defense" class but only retards and gibuses defend as heavy. Pyro is an attack class just like the Scout is an attack class, which doesn't have any more of a way to attack buildings directly than Pyro. They are both situational, and Pyro is geared primarily towards ambushes and CQC.

As much as I see everyone decrying the game becoming one big rock paper scissors match of everyone having a counter and everyone having a counter to their counter and everyone's counter countering their counter's counter, people still sure do like to complain for Valve to add MORE counters to further homogenize the classes. This is why afterburn hasn't been a threat for years, because EVERYONE needed some way to counter it, it wasn't fair to have to rely on water or a medic. And now you want buildings to be further trivialized as well because it isn't fair to have to rely on your teammates? No.

>>386834051
If you're a bad sniper maybe.

play with it around a full 40-69 hours of hard work being agressive and you'll turn into an attack sniper hunting directly in enemy's territory and fastscoping even a scout in short range.

Hardscoping sleeping sniper are gay.

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>>386812371
Soldier. It's annoying how much favoritism Valve shows it, refusing to nerf it when already-bad classes like Spy and Engineer get gutted. But I guess all the killstreak kiddies would complain if their EZ mode was taken away.

>>386834008
Then what about all the weapons that have "no crits" has disadvantage?

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>>386833814
>Or valve could look at what is causing these stalemates in the first place and fix them properly
Until that's happened, which it has not, and is unlikely to, random crits help fix an intrinsic problem in the game.
>Right because TF2 at release had no issues whatsoever
Unintentional issues. Bugs, glitches.
Random crits were an intentional decision placed in by intelligent game designers after extensive playtesting.
And who are you to say they're wrong when random crits are popular with so many players and TF2 is one of the most successful FPSes of all time? Who's to say that they aren't right?
Why aren't nocrits servers more popular if TF2's playerbase hates random crits so much? Why are plugins like RTD so popular if TF2's playerbase hates random elements so much? Answer me that.
>Random crits DON'T exist to buildings so it wouldn't matter either way
Random crits DO exist to the Engineer behind them if he gets hit by the splash, and when he's dead, he can't repair buildings.
>Go back to r/tf2 you fucking retard
Funny, you seem to know a lot about Reddit. I've never been there and don't plan to. But how about you head back on over, you fucking nigger?

>>386834430
Banned in tournaments

>>386834048
>genius
Kek. There is really no reason to act like a salty pussy around here.

>>386834450
And what about the official, normal comp mode?

>>386834450
this actually isn't true
http://comp.tf/wiki/6v6_Global_Whitelist

>>386834542
Automatically disabled

>>386834240
We would just go back to sticky niggerspamming or GRU Heavy.

>>386834483
>being this assblasted about a little sarcasm
Whoa lad, might be time to step away from the computer.

>>386834619
What's sarcastic about "genius"?

>>386834597
Sure, both of those have been taken to task, they're not nearly as obnoxious as Soldier is right now.

>>386834660
Do you literally not know what sarcasm is?

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>>386834619
>>386834792
>merely pretending

>>386834821
Kill Kill Kill

to play? scoot.
to play against? spy.

>>386834821
Fuck ass, eat cunt, lick feet

>>386834917
You would atleast fuck then kill the middle girl?

You're a fag dude, lol

>>386812448
mine too

>>386834821
F, M, K

>>386835029
>fuck then kill
>not kill then fuck
Pleb

>>386835243
... *brick'd* XD

>>386834821
Holy shit, that ass on the right one. Are you people blind? Look at that ass.

Also best face and the whitest of all three. How can you not choose her?

>>386835243
I want her to enjoy herself first atleast. I got a pretty good dick bro. It will make the kill that much more surprising.

>>386835343
>Bent over, sticking her ass out trying to make it look bigger than it is.
This is fucking basic stuff, you stupid child

>>386835436
I know, it's still big.

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How do we fix Engineer?

>>386816318
All of those aside from the dead of night can be bought on the market for pennies

>>386823604
>>Give scout unlocks that are useful and not gimmicks
the atomizer, entirely negates the best class in the game: soldier. The basher allows you to build uber with a medic

>>Nerf the medic in some way. Having a team RELY on one is silly but nerf him in a way that he isn't useless
a team based shooter requires teamwork oh shit

>>Give spy some other spy equipment, like a motion detector or an area denial thing to support his team more
stop trying to make a class that already has a purpose obtain another one. let the classes already in the game that can do their job do their job

>>Give the pyro some god damn mobility options so he can be a flanking class that he was designed to be
what is powerjack and map knowledge?? by being patient and waiting 15 seconds knowing their team will over extend I can kill 7 people and do 2000 dmg in the span of 20 seconds

>>386835998
you shoulda mentioned Winger.
It's useful, it's not a gimmick, it's fun and it's balanced

>>386835998
Not him.
>a team based shooter requires teamwork
TF2 would still have teamwork if Medic wasn't overpowered.
>what is powerjack and map knowledge??
Not enough to make Pyro viable, newfag.

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>>386835998
>by being patient and waiting 15 seconds knowing their team will over extend I can kill 7 people and do 2000 dmg in the span of 20 seconds
>scrubs being scrubs means pyro is fine
>a class relying entirely on the enemy making huge mistakes is fine

>>386824362
good post anon!

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>shoot an arrow at some fag
>it goes through him
>misses him completly
>aim to air near his head
>it kills him
how to git gud at huntsman? its kinda fun

>>386818749
crusaders crossbow or kritzkreig

>>386834187
>Random crits change this situation so that just 1 of the new player's shots landing can kill the pubstomper in a single hit.
That doesn't change how many deaths he's going to have against the pubstomper. It just makes the battle shorter which doesn't add anything to the game. The pubstomper still shits on the new player.

>Because they were going to die to the pubstomper crits or no crits.
So making the pubstomper stronger isn't going to help.

>However, the new player NEEDS crits to kill the pubstomper.
It doesn't matter how many crit kills they get, the better player will crit kill them far more and the negativity bias says negative experiences have twice the affect on someone as positive experiences. Your argument that somehow getting 1 kill on a pubstomper at the cost of dying 10 times as often is somehow better makes no goddamn sense.

>the pubstomper hardly has to bother with dodging at all.
why would he not bother to dodge that makes no goddamn sense.

>You're missing the point. Spy isn't terrible in pubs. Spy frequently tops scoreboards in pubs.
Really how many times have you seen a spy stomp over a soldier or heavy.

>Spy is only terrible in competitive play. Where there are no random crits
Random crits are one of the reasons not the only reason. If pubs suddenly had perfect players and communication tomorrow random crits still wouldn't suddenly make spy amazing.

>Do you have no idea how Ubersaw works? You gain 25% Uber on hit, not 100% Uber on kill.
Games are frequently won with 25% uber advantage in high level play.

>Killing a Spy with a random crit makes him give LESS Uber than he otherwise would.
Not if you kill him before he can land a second swing which gives your team a huge advantage.

>No, they don't die "frequently". How about YOU cut YOUR bullshit?
Every time b4nny plays pubs random crits make up a large portion of his deaths.