Dungeon crawler/Roguelike/strategy/mystery dungeon

>>386778361
Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together isn't exactly the most challenging tactical RPG but you'll get a lot of play time out of it.

>>386778514
Thanks anon, I'll look it up

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>>386778361
The Shiren games. They're roguelikes, and probably some of the most difficult ones. I've only played the SNES and Wii games, but yeah, if you haven't played them, give the series a shot.

>>386779190
Came here to post this, the SNES one has a good fan translation patch, I'd say start with that one.

>>386779190
>>386779443
Thanks guys, I'll look into it! Does Shiren have a lot of crazy mechanics to learn, or is it more of a simple game but difficult

>>386779570
Nah it's pretty straightforward roguelike stuff

>>386779685
Nice. Thanks again

>>386779570
It's a Mystery Dungeon game. Basically the first MD game was a licensed Dragon Quest spinoff, then Chunsoft decided to create their own OC (Shiren) so they could ship out more MD games without having a license. From then on the MD series is a mix of whatever license they can get a hold of and Shiren games.

>>386779878
That's really interesting, I had no idea. How far reaching is their niche? Did they do the Pokemon Mystery Dungeons too?

>>386779190

this, but not the third game, the third game is nothing compared to the original

>>386779570

it doesn't have a lot of mechanics but there is huge variety when it comes to enemies and items and stuff, in fact there are "fei puzzles" designed to make you learn new stuff about how to abuse the game
for example healing item can kill undead monster

>>386780085
Alright cool, I'll pick it up.

Are there any shiren games that are viewed as hands down the best?

Also, I guess now's a good time to clear up misconceptions: are games like Shiren consider Roguelikes? Mystery dungeon? Dungeon crawler? All three?

Azure Dreams

>>386779997
Yes, anything with Mystery Dungeon in the name is done by them and uses the same basic framework plus some license-related mechanics like moves in Pokemon games. Also they did the Chocobo's Dungeon FF spinoffs and a bunch of other more obscure stuff.

>>386780374
>are games like Shiren consider Roguelikes?
That's a huge can of worms. Not even roguelike fans are 100% sure what a roguelike is. The Mystery Dungeon games don't have you lose everything upon death since in some (all?) games you keep the exp gained and there's an overworld where you can store items and such, so by some definitions it's not a pure roguelike. Also I think some people consider ASCII graphics a must. May be classified as rogue-lites depending on who you ask.
>Mystery dungeon?
That's just the franchise's name, it's as much of a genre as "Final Fantasy" is.
>Dungeon crawler?
Dungeon crawler is usually associated with blobbers, first person RPGs in the style of Wizardry, Eye of the Beholder, etc.

>>386780374

there is a fuckload of shiren games but the only one avaiable in english are the first, the third and the fifth (which by the way is only on vita so it might as well not exist) honestly they introduce some gimmick between them (fourth one has a night/day system where enemies become super strong during night for example) but the core game is always the same

the dragon quest mystery dungeon game follow the same format, the first one has a fantranslation and the second even got an official release even if it's really wonky, you could look into those but personaly i prefer shiren more

>>386781159
>>386781102
Lots of good info here, thanks everyone

If Mystery Dungeon is considered the franchise, what is the genre called?

>>386781406
>what is the genre called?
See >>386781102, they're either roguelikes or roguelites depending on who you ask.

>>386781406

roguelike

it's just that the word roguelike often gets thrown around for games that uses element commonly associated with roguelikes like permadeath and randomly generated level but aren't roguelike (example: binding of isaac)

I thought this was gonna be an Izuna thread. I'm kind of heartbroken.

>>386781406
>>386781591
Thanks, I see what you're saying now

>>386781697
Maybe if I like Shiren I'll eventually give Izuna a go and maybe then you'll get an Izuna thread.

Why did Izuna get so bad reviews overall? Is the genre or the game?

'member when "roguelike"meant "topdown view RPG where enemies move only when you move , layouts are random and you lose most if not all of your shit when you die" instead of whatever the fuck it means these days?

>>386781805
>Why did Izuna get so bad reviews overall? Is the genre or the game?

The series doesn't really bring much to the table, and the genre in general is kinda niche, which tends to bring review scores down.

How is that Vita Shiren game?

>>386781827
>instead of whatever the fuck it means these days?

Crafting, survival, and procedurally generated levels?

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>>386781805

shiren the wanderer is one of my favourite games, like top 10 favourite games
this is it's metacritic vote
roguelike games are not popular, are hard (and not in the meme way like dark souls game are) and take away all your stuff so gaming journos hate them
seriously fuck videogame journos

>>386782257
good, go ask vitagen about it, there's always one guy that keeps wiping and asking for help there too.

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>>386781805
Try this one also, by the same people.

CAN YOU ALL STOP CALLING MD """ROGUELIKE"""?
It's just a dungeon crawler.

>>386782549
when you say dark souls is hard in a meme way, what do you mean?

i tried dark souls and hated it, even though I quite like hard strategy games, rpgs, shooters, etc.

>>386782572

you should avoid this one, the level aren't randomly generated which is a huge downside and the game is based about making secret chest appear by reading hint but namco skimped on the translation and removed all the hint so now you just have chest that randomly appear for no reason

>>386782715
>>when you say dark souls is hard in a meme way, what do you mean?

People oversell Demons/Dark Souls' difficulty, because the games use older gameplay philosophies in modern game design.

>>386782715

i mean that the game level of challenge eventualy became a marketting point so now it was suddenly okay for it to be hard, even though i personaly think the game is more cheap than hard

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IT'S A MONSTER HOUSE!

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Nethack.

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>>386778361
Izuna is maybe one of the best roguelikes to start with.
I played a bunch of Izuna.
It's good because it's much more forgiving, but I think it lends itself a lot to grinding, maybe too much.
Gotta love the canon homoerotic undertones tho.

But if you're going to give Shiren a shot, maybe consider the DS port instead. The SNES version is brutal and if I recall correctly the DS version is a lot more manageable while keeping faithful to the original, but still probably falling within the more difficult corner of these games.

Izuna 2 (and 1) is shit as far as roguelikes go, not really any redeemable qualities

It was so mediocre, it actually inspired me to try to write an in-depth review, which I will probably never share with anyone

>>386778361
Azure Dreams

Chocobo's Dungeon Wii is good. Nice remixes, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IOwkjstdHQ

>>386781805
>Why did Izuna get so bad reviews overall? Is the genre or the game?

The first Izuna is part of my top ten games. A charming roguelike that's easy to miss. I'm pretty sure reviews from the pros tend to skew lower thanks to

1) game looks like shit
2) anime
2) game punishes you for sucking
3) the genre is overall "harder" than what people expect out of am "RPG experience."
4) On a portable

It's niche, man. but I've always held that roguelikes are the thinking man's genre. Brain dead CoD kids need not apply.

>>386783516
The fuck? Post it, man. I love these games. It'd be rad to see a well thought out opposing perspective.

and if Izuna sucks, what game from the genre do you recommend? I've already run through all the Pokémon Mystery Dungeons.

>>386781805
>Why did Izuna get so bad reviews overall? Is the genre or the game?
This genre is hard as balls to play. And I don't mean just the difficulty, which the games in it generaly are.

It's hard for people to appreciate it because it generaly has very complex mechanics, heavy RNG, little to no narrative and very low production values. It's as far from user friendly as it gets.

Not only critics, but usualy the general public can't get into roguelikes.
I'm not even that big into them, but I guess the emergent gameplay is just so damn compelling for the few people that "get it".

>>386784116
I can post a little part of it, but the whole thing is way too long to share

>Where Izuna really tries to pull it all together are with traps. Considering the partner system (essentially an extra life), game-breaking weapons, and lack of permadeath, it would be disingenuous to call Izuna 2 “difficult”, if it wasn’t for traps. Traps are the environmental hazards that are more interesting than the actual environment tile sets (they also are invisible until you step on them). These traps aren’t like traps in, say, Brandish, where you can think your way out of it before attempting anything. The thinking in Izuna happens after you’ve stepped on the trap. Traps in Izuna 2 mean you need to carry at least 3 copies of the “Gency’s Exit” talisman at all times. Traps in Izuna 2 mean every step you don’t spend trying to find the exit is another step closer to having to restart (which is still less annoying than the lack of Izuna doujinshi on sadpanda). Traps are the splash of color, the deus ex machine that reminds you that this piece of software was made by human beings, who also made the repeating, lifeless dungeons, with the same useless items and enemies who all share the same attack patterns, with the same empty dialogue with no outstanding appeal to absurdity to justify any of its mistakes.

>The game is filled with so many half-baked ideas that the least it could’ve done was go full out style-over-substance. It couldn’t even do that right.
>Final Verdict: Not recommend

In that vein, I'd recommend Brandish: the Dark Revenant as a much better game

>>386778361
Daggerfall is a pretty good dungeon crawler. Just make sure you download DFQFix and keep multiple saves.

>>386778361
If you're honestly looking to get into roguelikes I would suggest starting with DoomRL. It's free, a quick download, very accessible compared to other western roguelikes, and very quick to start compared to eastern roguelikes. Plus if you're familiar with Doom there's much less of a learning curve than in other roguelikes; i.e. it's very easy to intuit what a monster is and what it can do based on its sprite alone.

>>386784116
Not him, and not trying to trash the dude, but don't take it too seriously.

It's just that most games in this genre are balls hard and very complex, and Izuna falls within the more casual end of the spectrum, being more linear, having more of a story and having a more generous kind of progression in-between the inevitable failures.

To people who are into shit like Nethack, Izuna is like the equivalent of Hearthstone for CCGs or CoD for FPS.
But if you're new to the genre, specialy a dying breed like true roguelikes, I'd say that games like Izuna and the Mystery Dungeon series are doing more good than people give them credit for.

>>386785280

This anon is right about izuna but the real reason it got trashed in review is >>386784204

Not to mention it has lesbo anime titty ninjas, that's like super gross!

>>386786027
are you implying the gameplay of Izuna was complex, and that the "story" was good?

tales of maj'eyal

>>386786384

No, i'm saying that izuna is a mediocre game that got trashed as an awful one cause reviewer can't into roguelikes and animay games

>>386778361
/rlg/ here. Try DCSS

http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/#lobby

read the /rlg/ OP for more.