Does parrying break SF at high levels? If so how? Would adding

>>386750116
No, it makes the game more honest. We've seen how awful characters like Alex are in Street Fighter V where his parries were locked behind V-Trigger.

>>386750718
Which is ridiculous yeah. I've just heard the argument that parries broke the game at high levels, Something about "Each character has different punishes if you miss a parry" and how that makes it unbalanced. But I don't understand that logic, because a parry is a risk in the first place.

Also SF5 seems like it was built very indecisively. On the one hand they want parries, but they also don't want the big gap it creates between new players and experienced ones.

>>386750116
They can't bring back proper linking unless they redo all the frame data. A lot of links in SFV are 1 frame links which isn't a problem because of the 3 frame input buffer.

>>386750116
>Would adding parrying to SF5 Make it better?
>5 input lag
>capcom current love for startup frames
literary useless

>>386750718

Alex was awful in Third Strike though. Him being bad in SFV has nothing to do with making him able to parry only during V-Trigger.

Also OP parrying doesn't break the game, the game is broken because some characters are just better than others to an almost obscene degree. The only way parrying comes into this is that those characters get more out of parrying than other characters, but they get more out of everything.

hard to say.
ryus vskill is a parry and it doesnt break the game at all. even when ryu was good (in season 1) the parry was not a big part of it.
then again, if i recall correctly, 3S parries were a LOT better than ryus parry in SFV. faster startup and recovery i think.

i dont know, it's really hard to judge how universal parries would affect SFV. depends a lot on how they would be implemented i guess.

>What if they brought back proper linking?
what do you mean by "proper" linking? remove the 3f buffer window that SFV introduced?

>>386752259
you can option select parries in 3S and you can parry in the air, Ryu's SFV parry leaves you in a counter hit state if you whiff it.

>>386752491
i see
OS parry sounds really dumb, not something i would want in a game at all.
air parry sounds fine though.

>>386752208
>>386752190

Makes sense, I wasn't aware of the input lag. I haven't had much interest in SF5, mostly because of what I've heard from it. The removal of linking, the choices of characters, the boring V-trigger system and the insane price tag for everything. I was hoping maybe I was just being stubborn.

I love street fighter, and I guess I was hoping for Capcom to maybe change its mind about some of the choices they made, but it seems like they're already plowing ahead and it's far too late to change direction. Is the game actually good though?

>>386752259
I think so. I've only played 3s and a little of 4, So I'm not entirely sure how SF5 operates. I've heard that linking is completely removed

>>386751480
>because a parry is a risk in the first place.
pffffftttttt
The punish window on a failed 3S parry is basically 0. On top of that parry OS makes it even safer to just fish for random parries.

>>386752612
the input lag in SFV is a mem that was blown way out of proportion

recent tests place it at around 75ms (PC) and 88ms (console) which translates to 5 / 6 frames and is pretty in line with other fighting games. it was worse on release though, but still not nearly as bad as some internet posters made it out to be.

>The removal of linking
what do you mean by this? linking normals into other normals is still a fundamental part of pretty much all characters' combos. do you dislike the 3f input buffer?

>>386752612
>Is the game actually good though?
personally i like it a lot. it's very different from USF4 and still has a lot of problems, but it's been consistently improving since release. some capcom choices regarding character design are really cringeworthy and dumb, but regarding gameplay there isn't much to complain about for me.

>>386750116
Completely depends on how it is implemented

It is like asking do supers break SF at high level, they certainly can be implemented in a way to do so

>>386752612

I enjoy the game. If you didn't enjoy it when you tried it, I'd say you still won't. Season two is just a more aggressive season one with some character buffs and nerfs.

I'd probably wait till Capcom give the game an update in Season three and see what they add, since rumours are that it'll be a more substantial update than season two's. Think Street Fighter 4 to Super SF4 kind of deal.

>>386752767
>I've heard that linking is completely removed

well that's simply bullshit. linking normals into other normals (or into specials and supers sometimes) works exactly like it always worked.
>hit enemy with normal
>recover from your normal before he recovers from hitstun
>immediately hit him with another normal while he is still in hitstun

if your move is +X on hit then you can combo into any normal that has fewer than (X+1) startup frames.

>>386753152
Well, you still need to expose yourself to parry. But at a high level I can see it being easier to understand when you can and cannot parry. So you do think it does break it at higher levels?

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>>386750116
This is not going to generate a good discussion, OP

it really changes how the game is generally played. projectile heavy characters like remy cant exist that well in a game where said projectiles dont give an advantage, and they even arguably are worse for him to use since they give a lot of meter.

i personally dislike parries as system mechanics, since they arent equalizers as a lot of characters in 3s get much better reward off of parries.

proper linking doesnt really matter since combo structure in sf5 is so 2 dimensional, there isnt a lot of ways currently in sf5 to be

>>386752597
>air parry sounds fine

>opponent jumps in
>anti air dp
>they parry
>eat damage

>opponent jumps in
>anti air parry
>it was an empty jump
>eat damage

>>386753675
>So you do think it does break it at higher levels?
It doesn't break the game but it breaks certain characters. Anon mentioned how useless Remy is and that's a perfect example but in general just think about all the character types that simply couldn't work in 3rd Strike. There's no Dhalsim like character or Sagat like character or Guile like character or Rolento like character, and so on. Even something as basic to the SF format as the shoto doesn't really exist in SF3 because fireballs are basically useless.

If you want to see this explained in angry, autistic detail google Viscant on 3rd Strike. Before he won Evo in MvC3 he was mostly known as the guy on SRK who hates 3rd Strike and buries people who know less than him in walls of text about how bad it is.

I like it, by the way, but I completely agree with him that parrying boils the game down tremendously until it's barely recognizable as Street Fighter. I just happen to think what's left is particularly interesting, but it makes sense to me that the game stayed niche.

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>>386750116
OOOH
OOOOOOH
OOOH
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

>>386754369
hm i didnt take into account that you could parry anti-airs, was thinking just about air-to-airs. that sucks, it makes jumping in a kind of mixup that doesnt favor the grounded player. doesnt sound like a good idea now.

what do people think about parries very unlike 3s? like melty blood where once you stop the parry you are in recovery if you didnt manage to parry anything/

>>386757217
thats fine. I kind of like Guilty Gear's just blocking too

just don't allow jump parry ffs

>>386756621
Well the ultimate effect of it is that in high level 3rd strike you very rarely see anyone do a raw jump-in, but I don't think that's a bad thing. In fact it's true in high level ST as well, just because anti air is so powerful in that game.

>>386758130
i just dont like that the grounded player has to make a decision between anti-air and baiting the incoming air parry, because both get punished if he isn't correct.
this air parry option sounds similar to giving literally every character a fucking divekick. makes anti-airing really inconsistent and frustrating, and i dont like that at all.

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>add Chun-li as the last character
>Make her the weakest character in the game


Why is this allowed?