Fantasy Strike

HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

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>>386733086
The highest praise is that of a man who after being verily defeated by David Sirlin, trained at the booth of David Sirlin for hours upon hours.
He thencesforth challenged David Sirlin again and was again defeated although not as verily, having made many small victories himself.
The defeated man exclaimed that the first time he did not understand the characteristics of the avatars, but that this time he was simply far inferior in terms of Pure Skill.
Praise be to Pure Skill
And praise be to David Sirlin

-The Book of David Sirlin Chapter 10 Verse 0

>>386733050
IS THIS RISING THUNDER 2?
DID I FUCKING LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO SEE IT?
PLEASE TELL ME ITS GONNA BE F2P
RISING THUNDER WAS MY FUCKING DREAM GAME BEFORE THEY KILLED IT

>>386733886
fuck if i know it's still on not kikestarter

>>386733886
Yeah basically RT2 except less SFIV style combos and no cooldown specials.

>>386733954
Probably not gonna be free, but free weekend is coming up.

http://www.fantasystrike.com/blog/2017/play-fantasy-strike-pre-alpha-free-weekend-august-11-14th-on-pc-and-mac

>>386734017
>Probably not gonna be free
broke my heart
its dead if its not free

>>386734045
There's just no way to make a f2p fighting game work without being riot huge.

>>386733050
>simple fighting game
>e-sports
These are good ideas why?

>>386734156
sell costumes like DOA5 except make the game fun

>>386734156
RISING THUNDER MADE IT
AND RIOT KILLED THEM
FUCK RIOT

>>386734248
RT was always a tech demo. It could have never stood on its own, they made it to get bought out.

Just post pictures of the barefoot paintbrush chick that's the only reason anybody cares about this game.

>>386734370
no i dont believe you
some day i will put the money on the table, get the drinks ready, and get a victory for the people

>>386734372
waifushitters are becoming the worst casuals

>make fighting game for casuals
>cross ups for days
>die in like 2 combos
>every character is scummy as shit
what did he meme by this?

>>386734235
It's a niche that's unfilled.

Although I don't think FS is trying to be an esport (or at least it's trying by being a good game first and foremost), that's just kotaku being kotaku.

here, have something a bit more thoughtful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sUVNqNSo5M

>>386734557
>cross ups for days
Onlyon rushdown characters or in the corner.

>die in like 2 combos
Which is why it is best of 7.

>every character is scummy as shit
Midori is honest (especially since he lost the throw loop).

>>386733050
Is this an "ironic" shilling thread?

>>386734618
The video did raise some good points so I'll keep Fantasy Strike on my radar. I'm not a fan of the whole simplicity aspect because for me part of the fun is sweat and tears to reach a decent level, but I have respect for what David's overall goal is. Plus the character design is looking damn good.

>>386735404
>sweat and tears to reach a decent level
but getting through mechanical barriers is not reaching the decent level
its just "starting to play"

if you dont have that barrier you can start on mindgames and footsies and other fun stuff right away

thats why people dont care about fighting games, it takes too long to get to the actual game part, and most might not even know that its there

>>386733050
The problem with fighting games is that people want to win without effort. If you can put in effort and be unbeatable to 95% of the rest of the playerbase, what have you done?

>>386735543
I'm well aware that fighting games aren't the easiest genre to get into, that's something nobody can deny. If Fantasy Strike has the potential to attract more people into fighting games then it has my support. It doesn't look like the type of game I'd stick around for long, but I'd spread word around for sure.

>>386735908
>The problem with fighting games is that people want to win without effort
thats not it

We already had this thread. The inputs are only a minuscule part of the "difficulty" of a fighting game. What makes you think that someone who isn't willing to learn a few special motions will suddenly be willing to dump hours in to playing a game to learn matchups, how to play neutral, and basic frame data? The long term market doesn't exist. The first time someone repeatedly loses for an hour, they'll walk off to play whatever other game. This will also limit the few new players who do stick around to ONLY this game. No other game will adopt this style of inputs, so if that's their problem then this is as far as they go.

>>386736238
>What makes you think that someone who isn't willing to learn a few special motions will suddenly be willing to dump hours in to playing a game to learn matchups, how to play neutral, and basic frame data
cause thats me and im 100% willing to do that cause im playing the game day1 and having fun
instead of learning combos and reading wiki for days

>>386733050
Those 2 "walls" take like an hour of training mode to overcome at most

>>386736368
You're going to have to learn those anyways, and they're a fuck ton harder than learning how to do a QCF. Seriously, it takes maybe a day tops to consistently do special inputs from absolutely no experience. You're going to drop it once the first major skill gap shows up. As much as people want there to be, there isn't a quick and dirty way to become competent at a fighting game. It takes a good chunk of time.

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>>386733050
>"Skeptics at these shows (and there were only like 2 or 3 at each) would say “isn’t there just nothing to this?” Then we offer to crush them really hard, either with me playing them or one of my staff. In all cases, we crush them easily, as in more than 10-0.
I could whitewash David Sirlin at his own game, it's literally impossible to lose with Jaina unless you're retarded

>>386736598
i dont care if its harder
i DONT WANT TO learn inputs in order to play
while learning all that other stuff comes naturally cause im having fun with the game already

>it takes maybe a day tops to consistently do special inputs from absolutely no experience
youve been in your bubble way too long

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>nobody posted THAT webm yet

Slackers

>>386735908
It's actually the other way around though.

The low level, scrubby majority of current fighting game players don't want to play a 2 player game; they want to do single player execution tests and setplays that don't let the opponent play. They want to sidestep interaction. They never advance beyond that point.

This is why they screech about easy execution games that lack "skill". They feel threatened.

This game looks fucking UGLY

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>>386736668
hey that's my webm and I just got here!

nice videogame david.

>>386736668
looks like a regular shoto round to me
also
>pre alpha fighting game

>>386735931
I've noticed players these days really like games with slow as fuck character movement or attacks with lots of time to react like with MOBAs, Overwatch, MMOs, or Final Fantasy. One of the main reasons I like fighting games is because they are so fast compared to other genres and a lot of games have a really nice balance of preemptive strategy and thinking on feet with tight reaction times.

Like most popular games, Fantasy Strike slows everything down and shrinks your options down to a paltry level, it's nice for people who easily get overwhelmed, but I don't think I could enjoy it for more than a day or two.

>>386736668
>jumps in
>jumps in
>jumps in
>when he finally gets in he doesn't take any opportunity

I fail to see the problem.

>>386736671
Just let fighting games die. They aren't gonna change.

>>386736668
>guy jumps in 3 times
>Doesnt block
>kinda walks forward

>>386736668
>doesn't use hammerfall
>keeps using lariat at distances where jaina can beat it with knee
>doesn't just accept the hit and power through with landslide

shit tier Rook

>>386736923
>Just let fighting games die. They aren't gonna change.

It's my favorite genre, and the only way it's going to survive is games like FS.

There aren't many games like FS. I'm holding out hope for a SoulCalibur that's back to basics instead of continuing down the road of "let's add flashy shit!" but getting an SC at all is dubious.

So why are HP bars so small in this game

>>386736923
>Just let fighting games die
fighting games are going through a renaissance dingus, they are at their peak since the arcade and sf2 days in terms of popularity

just cause capcom is going down the shitter doesn't spell doom for fighting games at all

>>386736890
>Fantasy Strike slows everything down
looks as fast as street fighter to me

>>386737127
one game from valve, blizzard, or riot could put fighting games as the new go-to genre and at the top of the food chain
but they arent doing it cause mobas and mobafps is the hot thing at the moment
ill wait a few more years for riot to start releasing rising thunder 2 and if they dont ill set fire to their office and blow something up

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>>386733050
Fixed.

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>>386736238
That's not an argument against simplified inputs, though. This is only an argument for why, hypothetically, a new player might not care. This is arguable since there is a fanbase for complex games that have simple inputs and maybe worth a try. Even if they don't, they still don't have a reason -not- to do the simplified inputs, everything else remaining the same.

Why can't people just accept Figthing games are a high investment hobby in order to git gud?
It's like drawing or painting or chess and stuff, deep hobbies need lots of practice.

Either invest the time into it or just don't, you are not, by any circumstances, going to get pro-level good overnight in any of that.

>>386737156
I actually asked Sirlin about this.

To reset the situation often. Combined with the more rounds, it gives you more attempts to learn/adapt avoid whatever lead to your loss.

>>386737281

Now you're just being an autist

>>386737281
why not combos?

>>386737320
cause low entry point and high skill ceiling is infinitely better in every occasion compared to high entry point high skill ceiling
it is THE reason fighting games are dead

>>386737470
This.

Note how >drawing or painting or chess

Are all > low entry point and high skill ceiling

>>386737294
Again, you can learn combos in Tekken by trying them out for a couple of hours, hell on PC you can even bind them to macros.
It still doesn't put you on the same level as pros who do advanced movement techniques, know how to parry-string etc.etc.
And he's right about highly competitive games, look at Quake Live, it only has basic controls but a new player who isn't really motivated is not gonna stick to it after getting gibbed for 6 hours straight.

>>386737320
>you are not, by any circumstances, going to get pro-level good overnight in any of that.
why do fighting game fags always assume people who dont want to spend time learning inputs have that as their goal?
i could not give less of a shit if ill get to pro level or not
i want to pick up a game and start playing and have fun
if its deep ill just keep playing it for a long time and learning new things
im not going to sit there doing shit i dont care and dont like on the off chance that a month in the future i might have fun

I think Aris said it best in one of his streams. "All the Tekken guys were moving to Soul Calibur II, because Tekken was the hard game, Soul Calibur was simple, they just had to play chess, play against the opponent."

In simple terms a high-level player moving from a high-execution to low-execution game will excel because he does not have to play against the game and can simple use his honed skills against other players in the game.

A mid-level player moving from a high-execution to a low-execution game usually suffers because they don't have any tools they can rely on to be better than their opponent (there are likely a few mid-level players who have bad execution but good interactive skills, but I consider them the exception rather than the rule).

>>386737565
>>386737565
The advanced movement techniques are "advanced" because harada won't fucking put not ass tier back-walk in the game.

It's the posterboy for pointless execution test where you need to be able to do a complicated input just to fucking walk backwards or forwards fast.

>>386737694
Harada won't put them in because Koreans will stop buying, and Koreans are the only relevant market for 3D fighters.

>>386737470
They're not dead you dumb fucker, they're more popular than they've ever been except for SFV because it sucked ass.
Again, if you can't bother learning a qcf+button or charge inputs you don't have the persistence to learn all the rest, even if you could bind every complicated motion to a button(and you can on PC) you'd still suck at movement, combos, parries, punishment etc.etc.

It's much more complicated than "I can't do EGWF or Shoryuken straight out of the box waaaaah change the controls"

>>386733050
>Combos
>Reversals
>Game specific techniques/techniques in general
>Not all part of decision making tactics and "fun".

Yeah dead meme game incoming.

>>386737565
Still no argument given against simplified inputs. It just means they are opting for the "Quake Live"-style.

>>386737572
There are other games where you can just do that, I heard that there's this shooter called Overwatch where you can push a button and do awesome.

>>386737565
>a new player who isn't really motivated is not gonna stick to it after getting gibbed for 6 hours straight.
that is true of any game
and its the problem of faulty matchmaking algorithms, not the game itself

any game no matter how simple or complex it is needs people of similar skill to be put together

>>386737806
EVO can barely muster 150 thousand views for the most popular game.

So no, fighting games aren't dead, we just managed to resuscitate the body to put it on life support again, wondering when it's gonna go under.

>>386737873
And why would a fighting game where you can do that be bad?

Why would a shooter where you need to input a shoryuken motion to throw a grenade be good?

>>386737873
there are tons of games like that and fantasy strike is just that
youre just so far up your ass and blinded by your time investment too see it

>>386737565
>And he's right about highly competitive games, look at Quake Live, it only has basic controls but a new player who isn't really motivated is not gonna stick to it after getting gibbed for 6 hours straight.

That's not really an argument against simplified controls, it just further enforces the idea that simplifying controls doesn't actually matter because top players will still be better than bottom ones.

>>386733050

Do people really have trouble with inputting special moves? 5 minutes in training mode is all you need to figure out what you need to do.

>>386737682
>play against the opponent
> he does not have to play against the game and can simple use his honed skills against other players in the game
FUCKING MILLION TIMES THIS

>>386737572
>i want to pick up a game and start playing and have fun
Then play with your FRIENDS and don't nag pro players who have put in the time and effort because you just can't.
I'm pretty sure all these threads are trolls trolling trolls anyway.

>>386737320
The only thing you invest a lot of time for in a fighting game are combos. Remove long combos, keep all of the cool mechanics of modern fighters, and everyone goes right into using all of the tools they have at their disposal instead of worrying about maximizing their damage output. They won't be in a fucking Training Room alone for hours perfecting their execution of their one or two optimal combos; they'll be fighting and learning how to use the individual moves they have against others.

>>386737408
>>386737403
Combos are nothing but a detriment to a fighting game. It goes from being a fight to one player waiting and doing nothing while the other plays the game alone, pressing the same sequence of buttons he was practicing for hours because he got a single poke in.

Combos are the "autistic" barrier that are killing fighting games and deterring everyone from them. They add nothing except flashyness. Concepts like corner carrying or setplay can be done with a mere two or three hit combo, not a 32 hit combo that needs several one frame links which even the pros will drop frequently.

The high execution barrier of long Combos being a downright necessity today are the biggest negative to the fighting game genre's appeal for new PLAYERS.

>>386737806
>They're not dead
uh huh.
next thing you're gonna tell me is that RTS games are all the jazz nowdays

>>386738017
I spent 2 hours trying to teach someone motions and comboing heavy into a special.

Person decided that fighting games are bullshit and never wants to play one again.

>>386736665
>youve been in your bubble way too long
I literally started playing my first fighting game seriously like a year ago. It took me a grand total of a week to learn the special inputs and consistently land really basic day-1 combos.
>>386737201
It's definitely not, especially not SF5 speed. Not to mention there's a lot more to how fast a game is than movement speed. You have a fucking year to reaction to most things in Fantasy Strike, and you're rarely made to think multiple times in quick succession. Overall momentum of the game is pretty slow.
>>386737294
Simplified inputs also come at the cost of character complexity and freedom behind designing how they work. Everything CAN'T remain the same. Inputs are very basic to do, but in certain combos it makes them difficult to master which adds another layer and pushes the skill ceiling higher. Picking which combo to do based off risk/reward in terms of difficulty+damage is a very big deal.
>>386737470
>Dead
There's more tournaments with higher entrants than there ever has been. Fighting games have had multiple TV appearances for EVO now. and MKX and SFV had/have their own TV series even.

>>386737929
>input a shoryuken motion to throw a grenade be good?
jesus fuck you for putting that image in my head
not even flight sims are that complex, that would be horror

this game is so fucking boruing holy fuck it's like those newgrounds flash games

>>386738059
>friends
>dont nag pro players
stay in your dead game mr pro player
im not bothering you
i want a game for me, not for you

>>386738118
>I spent 2 hours trying to teach someone motions and comboing heavy into a special.

Remember when 7 year olds could learn how to combo a cr.mp into a special? WTF happened? Are mobile games and single player story modes that stroke the players ego making people dumb as fuck?

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>>386733050

although I would agree that certain inputs required for specials in most fightan are more complicated than they need to be (720s pretzels etc etc), I disagree with the point being made by this image. I could write out an argument but I feel like letting Day9 make my argument for me since he has a video on the subject.

https://youtu.be/EP9F-AZezCU

in essence, the idea that you're not "really playing the game" until you're on the right side of all the technical barriers in the OP image, is mythical in nature

>>386738141
Example of one button inputs not working for traditionally designed fighters is the 3DS port of SF4. It's a shit show.

>>386738261
>Remember when 7 year olds could learn how to combo a cr.mp into a special?

YOU could. I could. Because we were 7 years old and we wanted to do it and we grinded it out.

Someone in his 20s who never touched a fighting game will be perplexed by motion inputs, because they are so unlike anything else in gaming.

The barrier for fighting games for me is that I really like neutral game and footsies. That's my most entertaining aspect of fighting games.

But to get to where footsies are actually played you pretty much have to run through a gamut of mid-level players that will trash you because they can execute better than you. So you spend most of the game grinding execution, trying to maximize your damage, just to get to the part of the game you actually like.

Are there actually people that cant input fireballs and shouryuukens? I thought it was a /v/ meme.

>>386738284
That's because it's the "cut off wheels off of a car vs building a motorcycle" situation. The 3DS port was removing parts from an already complete game.

FS has a Guile archetype with 1 button specials, and it's not broken, because he relies on a charge meter that charges when he isn't pressing forward.

>>386738359
I can do both well, but I find KBD and stair-stepping to be a grating annoyance.

A shame, because I actually really like Tekken. Even at low levels if you can avoid the gimmicks the game is a lot of fun.

>>386738079

....You're still being an autist

>>386733050
People thinking removing complicated inputs, that arent even that complicated, wikl do any good are fucking delusional.

Besides the commands you have the matchup knowledges and decision making. As sirlin said he beat a lot of fighting game players that layed the genre for years without much effort probably because he know way more of the game if compared to people that played for 20 minutes.

Fantasy strike might be the entry door for the genre and other games but i seriously doubt it will be sucessful.

>>386737294
An argument against simplified inputs is that it will make the casual feel worse at the game when they can't "get" how to win while they clearly know that they are playing an incredibly simplified game when it comes to execution

Happened in Rising Thunder as well

>>386738284
Well thats because the game wasnt design around them, guile isnt supposed to just throw sonic booms out of his ass whenever he wants to. You'd have to balance the game around them (and make the game a boring shitshow that no one will ever play just like RT)

>>386738516
>Happened in Rising Thunder as well

classic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0WetHkYVtw

>>386733050
there's another demo weekend starting tomorrow.

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>>386738010
>That's not really an argument against simplified controls, it just further enforces the idea that simplifying controls doesn't actually matter because top players will still be better than bottom ones.
Which is the entire point of the discussion, scrubs think they lost 10-0 because they don't know the controls instead of just recognizing the opponent as better than them.

And you know what will happen when you remove the "complicated inputs"?
They'll blame another mechanic, be it juggling, mix-ups, projectiles, etc.etc."WOOOWW HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW HE WOULD HIT LOW THEN MID?"
That's the whole difference between a scrub and a dedicated player, he can see what he did wrong because he understands it can also be HIS fault instead of blaming a fucking game mechanic.

And no, "I just want to have fun" is not an argument when you also want to compete online and WIN at that.
You can have fun playing with your friends, a well made story mode etc.etc. and winning online after training for it.

>>386737959
And you'll still suck against a "good" Fantasy Strike player and blame something else other than your scrub ass.

>>386737929
The point is that you're still gonna suck at it and you're still gonna blame the environment and not yourself.

TL&DR
Stop blaming everything else, you suck and you have to train.

>>386738516
The main casual filter in fighting game is not being able to blame anyone but yourself for your loss. People should just get over the fact that fighting games arent made for casuals and play smash with items on or some shit.

>>386738141
a village having all of its population in their center square does not make a crowd if the village is too small

>>386733050
>fix fighting games
If you want to "fix" fighting games, drive up a decent community hub for them since arcades are in the gutter and most forums suck dick. They're multiplayer games. People will play anything if their friends are playing them.

>>386738341
>because they can execute better than you.
Wrong, it doesn't matter how long they have spent in training room if you are in fact better in the neutral it won't matter because you can open them up and punish more. Basically, you lose cause they are in fact better at the neutral than you and would beat you even if they didn't do any combos

A best what you said would only apply to games with ToD

>>386738341
Try out some Samurai Shodown V Special, it's fantastic if you like neutral focus

Lots of time outs though unfortunately since generally you and the other guy are fighting for pixels of HP, still pretty solid and purely fundamental/footsies based regardless

>>386738326
dont forget people have jobs
and im not coming back home to work some more for free

>>386738523
>>386738284
If they design more characters like Ed it could work.

The thing is I don't want every character like Ed. Having characters with different execution barriers is fine and has always been a thing in fighting games, but you cannot homogenize an entire cast to have one button command specials. It ruins a lot of the designs and strategies that come with motion and charge characters and it's nice to have those around.

>>386738613
Ths anon spraks the truth.

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>>386733050

>>386738267
i agree on starcrafts need to have old style input controls
but i completely disagree with fighting game controls
where does that put me

>>386738613
Sure, but it also means there's no reason to complain about simplifying the controls.

>>386738613
>The point is that you're still gonna suck at it and you're still gonna blame the environment and not yourself.

Okay. You still didn't give a reason why not do it, or why motion specials are better.

You just keep repeating "YOU'LL STILL SUCK WITH SIMPLE CONTROLS!".

Okay, that may be true. Why are motion controls better. Will I not suck after learning motion controls?

>>386738341
this this this

>>386738613
Your post reminded me of a joke video of a street fighter 3 mod according to "pro players" where the only thing you can do is basically slug eachothers to death, i cant find it though.

>>386738613
>And you'll still suck against a "good" Fantasy Strike player and blame something else other than your scrub ass.
ill blame the matchmaking algorithm if it was a stomp
ill blame myself if it wasnt

>>386738341
>But to get to where footsies are actually played you pretty much have to run through a gamut of mid-level players that will trash you because they can execute better than you.
That's not entirely the case. If you learn defensive play (Which is a big deal for neutral anyway) then you can block properly and just nullify the all offense based scrublords. High execution only really counts once they get a hit in, or in a heavy movement based game (Melee, GG). Learning how to block is probably the first real wall most people hit trying to git gud
>>386738523
Pretty much this. There's a reason literally no other major company has done this in the years of trying to make their games "accessible". It comes at a cost to attract a market that is essentially the 1%

>>386738836
Classic imputs are better because they add more complexity to the game. Imagine having raging demon on a single button. It would be broken as hell, you cant have that in a game like this, youd have to nerf it to hell.

>>386738836
>>386738836
Not him but you can do a lot more with special moves and properties of said moves with motion controls and allow quite a large amount of variety

I think simple controls can also do this, but it's going to take a lot of work
Like check out someone like Zangief, if Zangief had his command grab as a single button then you definitely need to change a lot of properties to make this balanced out and not ridiculous
Rising Thunder had huge issues with this and Atlas

Just waiting for one of these simple accessible fighting games to come in and shake things up somehow

Kinda like Melee did but that could never catch on for traditional fighting games

>>386734156
But it is though.

F2P with a limited roster and having to buy the chracters in packs on separate.
Selling costumes, colors, even victory poses.
Having to buy credits to play ranked mode

All I know is that I played fighters when I was a kid, and it was fun cause no one knew what they were doing.
Nowdays I can't be bothered to sit there and train for hours with the limited time I have, there is no desire to do that.
And then I played rising thunder, and it was instantly fun, and it MADE me want to sit there for hours of my free time, figuring out what combo would be better or how many frames that move was, cause I was having fun from the start.

My point is, you're not going to force people to sit down and do something with just a promise that it gets better somewhere down the line.
You have to show people that its fun, and you can do it with minimal training, but there is still monumental depth below the surface, and if you want to, you can dive as deep as you want and get more enjoyment out of it.

post valerie rule 34

>>386738523
>just like RT
RT was great before riot killed it

>>386739229
It was a dogshit game no one played.

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>>386739059
>Classic imputs are better because they add more complexity to the game.

It's complexity without depth, though. Having to doe 236 before throwing a hadouken isn't the hard part, knowing when and which hadouken to throw is the hard part. That's where the decisions are.

Do you think Overwatch would be improved if Tracer had to input KBD every time she dashes? It's more complex.

>>386739131
... Does KI do this? I know they do the limited roster.

>>386738563
hahahahahah I suck ass at fighting games and even I can see what he did wrong.

>>386739167
>and you can do it with minimal training, but there is still monumental depth below the surface
The problem is that by lowering the controls to such an extent, you also lower the depth eventually. There's a few reasons RT died, this being one.

>>386739131
horrible idea
better idea:
buy cosmetics, have chests for unlocking for free
characters are unlocked but you cant customize them unless you "buy" them
zero impact on gameplay
gigantic popularity due to cosmetic slot machine autists

>>386739292
The only reason RT died was Riot games buying it out. There was nothing wrong with the game.

>>386738836
Creates complexities not possible if they are a simple inputs leading to a more creative game.

If a charge move is on a timer there are no ways to creatively store charges to use a move when it doesn't seem possible. This means the game will lack options and people can only do exactly what a dev intended

>>386739282
>wanting to have a whole cake
fucking fat fattie fat fats
>have to eat it cause it will spoil
not a worst food related thing in the fucking world save for actually eating something spoiled or rotten

>>386739284
If you don't have the 236 before the Hadouken that means you can throw them out while walking backwards

As it is there's nothing to offset the defensive power of this

>>386739403
SFIV combos, shitty balance (in large part due to the cooldown thing not being properly tested).

It had potential, though.

>>386739510
balance is not an argument
balance was being changed constantly and it was a beta for this reason

>>386739468
>if the game doesn't have bugs, you can't be creative in it

FFS, do you really have such little trust in developers?

>>386739468
This. Knowing how to hide charge is an important part of some characters. If it's on a set cooldown on screen then it's impossible to surprise people with a rush punch or boom or something

This game has a neat little concept, but all this praise stinks of shillery. It's not something I can see anyone getting hyped about.

>>386738942
>ill blame the matchmaking algorithm if it was a stomp
That's an actual good point, the real problem with online play in fighting games is that it puts people with years of experience under their belt vs beginners, and that's where the frustration begins, and from frustration come silly ideas like "If I didn't have to input such a complicated move I would be as good as him!"

>>386738836
The point is that you want to have FUN and you think that you can only have fun by WINNING IN ONLINE GAMES.
With simple controls you change nothing and simply limit the possibilities as posters way better than me said in >>386739000
>>386739059
>>386739087

>>386739510
whats wrong with sf combos?

Simple inputs are a good way to get newcomers interested in fighting games, yes, but it's not the end-all be-all reason. What should be more important and get more focus is better tutorial and learning tools to get new people up to date much faster.

UNIEST and GG already do this in a great way, but it could be so much more. Imagine having a custom mission mode that lets you set up specific situations and set ups and uploading it so beginners can easily look up match situations they can practice against or even new BnBs made by the players themselves, or tournament highlights right on the main menu, or easily available replay match footage that can be filtered by a variety of ways, including match ups. There's just so many ways you can improve a fighters accessibility without having to sacrifice execution.

>>386739284
Did you just skip over my raging demon argument? The reason there is a motion input on fireball (that is easy as shit to do) its because you cant have a button for every fucking fireball. Where the fuck do you fit 4(sometimes even 8) fucking single button inputs for different fireballs when you already have 6 buton taken for normals? Why do you keep talking about overwatch? Who the fuck cares?

I'm really happy to see games like this pop up. When it comes to more casual fighting games, there are only really two options. One of which is a parody game.

Bottom line is, unless accessibility happens and archaic systems go away, fighting games will continue to be dead.

>>386739284
>isn't the hard part
then stop complaining

Hadoken makes the player do certain things, they can't block while inputting and have to stop. This controls what they player can do while inputting without taking the controls out of their hand. This allows players to do such things as fake the motion to bait people or buffer the move while not completing the input in case it isn't wanted

>Overwatch
Different style of game to the point where it isn't comparable especially because of full 3d movement on a map with more complex terrain making that not possible.

>>386739627
Not SF, SFIV specifically. They are long and complex and often hard to execute, and your damage without them is minimal.

>>386739760
what are the options?
please tell me

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>>386734618
>Core-A-Gaming
This guy makes some of the best videos on Youtube. It's nice to see a niche channel like this get the attention it deserves, because he really brings up a lot of strong points.

>having to learn keyboard gymnastics and movesets before I even get to play the game

yeah nah, fuck that shit

what is the reason for those anyway? never heard a single good one to keep them except "they have been always around"

>>386739612
>The point is that you want to have FUN and you think that you can only have fun by WINNING IN ONLINE GAMES.
Strawman, no one is saying they want controls to win all the time.

>>386739684
>Where the fuck do you fit 4(sometimes even 8) fucking single button inputs for different fireballs

Grave has normal fireball, hold fireball, forward fireball and back fireball.

> when you already have 6 buton taken for normals

You don't need 6 buttons for normals either, especially when 80% of them are trash.

>>386739760
Pocket Rumble is a better game than this. And it has an actually valuable feature with it's frame data meter.

>>386739815
thats not what i remember rising thunder was like

>>386739882
it's exactly why you want them too, because you believe that simplified controls will make you competitive and are the only thing keeping you from learning the genre.
Protip: they're not, you just don't like fighting games that much or you'd be playing them and training instead of posting about them on a vietnamese basket weaving forum.

>>386739849
I still disagree with them saying that Fantasy Strike is the way to go for simple fighters. It falls straight into the same problems that Rising Thunder did.

>>386739667
Most casuals don't enjoy tutorials. Not even people who want to learn the game enjoy tutorial modes because they end up being too slow for anyone semi-experienced. There is a reason most games have an enjoyable campaign mode with that introduces mechanics and challenge at a steady pace.

>>386739946
Then you didn't play Edge or Crow (that was the korean, right?).

>>386739859
not enough buttons\too expensive to build arcade cabinets with 50 buttons on each side?
also pretty sure combos were a bug originally

>>386734618
>It's a niche that's unfilled.
Divekick
Rising Thunder
Pocket Fighter
GG simple input mode
(arguably but still has inputs) SFV

This has been tried many times before, the fig campaign for FS is a failure. The idea that this is a niche is a complete and utter lie. What will get people in is a good game with a strong IP, that simple

>>386739765
>continue to be dead
lol
the playerbase might be small but fighting games will live on without whiners who can't bother to learn DP motion

>>386739975
>it's exactly why you want them too, because you believe that simplified controls will make you competitive and are the only thing keeping you from learning the genre.
jesus my assumption and projection meter is off the scale
its actually melting

youre fucking delusional mate and you dont get it
re-read the thread and look for long posts and videos

>>386738718
>Time outs are a bad thing
I don't understand this mentality. Time outs can be really tense and the better player will win due to smart play.

>>386740023
>Divekick
meme game

>Rising Thunder
can't actually be played

>Pocket Fighter
okay, that's 1

>GG simple input mode
GG was not made with simple inputs in mind and you are nerfing yourself if you use them

>(arguably but still has inputs)
Then why mention it?

>>386740004
the guy with the rings was about the only character i didnt play
sword guy was alright

>>386739667
this >>386739986

From a lot of the people pushing this what they think is they will be able to learn fighting games only by playing. While not impossible, it took people in the old days years of just playing to figure some stuff out.

>>386739981
what fucking problems?
also consider they are pioneers in a genre that doesnt exist yet

>>386740065
you are delusional if you thin fighting games are anything but dead

>>386739889
Does he also have 4 shoryu and 4 tatsu inputs, while also having at least a super button?
>b-but you dont need 6 normals
Fuck you, why are you trying to take depth out of my fighting games?

>>386736668
He should have watched the spotlight vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdbPyG1bdZI

>>386739765
MK, SF, and Tekken all sell in the millions. The genre is fine and MKX sold 6+ million copies. Fighting games have issues that need to be addressed, but I'm glad I don't have to deal with some real braindead shit like Overwatch dictating the designs of my favorite genre.

>>386740139
It's not really a bad thing, but it's the norm rather than being the outlier

SamSho is really a low damage fighting game even though heavy hits and command grabs can do batshit ridiculous amounts of damage

Just had to mention it since pretty much everyone is used to KOs at some point in matches

>>386739819
Rising Thunder and Divekick.

>>386740336
>Rising Thunder
get
fucked
you piece of shit

>>386737187
>fighting games are going through a renaissance dingus, they are at their peak since the arcade and sf2 days in terms of popularity

2009-2015 was that time period, SF4 was at its peak, there were a ton of smaller anime fighting games being made, and you had multiple choices of 3d fighters. That isn't true now.

>>386740226
Lowering the execution barrier won't actually teach people how to play. making specials have cooldown in RT didn't stop people from complaining about fireball spam, cross ups, set play and vortex. Lowering the execution barrier will just make the better player win easier.

>>386740294
>Does he also have 4 shoryu and 4 tatsu inputs, while also having at least a super button?
He could, using the same methods.

Are you really this dense?

>Fuck you, why are you trying to take depth out of my fighting games?

Since when is "this move is fucking useless, never use it" depth?

>>386739986
>I don't want to do the tutorial
>I don't want to watch videos
>I don't want to learn complicated controls
>I want to have fun at it though

>>386740149
not an argument
never took off while it was
proof enough
still fulfills the roll unless this mythical game will be perfectly balanced
It is so simple that any baby can do any combo

Even you admit the niche has been filled, people don't want it though. All those games have managed to do is make a shittier version of something else

>>386740405
>making the thing the experienced player can already do but the noob can't easy so the noob can do it is actually a benefit for the experienced player because... he can uh... do it?

You are retarded.

>>386739981
It's a step in the right direction. You won't get it perfect on the first try, but it sets up for other developers to try their hand at it. I really think it's wasted potential that the only beginner friendly fighting games are platform fighters, when Smash is so dominant and its audience so loyal to the one game they play.
There's a high interest in traditional fighting games, because they sell really well, but casuals are turned off quickly by the relatively high input barrier. More entry-level games that don't sacrifice depth would be great.

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>>386740373
>That isn't true now.

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>>386738563
>>386738563
>>386738563
>>386738563


EVERYONE JUST WATCH THIS VIDEO

THIS IS THE FUCKING POINT, EVEN WITH SIMPLIFIED CONTROLS THE SCRUB WILL BLAME EVERYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN HIMSELF AND GO BACK TO PLAY WOW

>>386740405
>won't actually teach people how to play
>didn't stop people from complaining
how the fuck is this a problem of the game?

>>386740282
the fuck are you talking about retard, even something as niche as blazblue gets new installments

>>386740435
name a single thing being wrong with that mentality

>>386740545
>Puyo Puyo Tetris
I like you.

>>386740185
>it took people in the old days years of just playing to figure some stuff out.

No, most shit was figured out early and late tech was mostly glitches, execution requirements, or some real ambiguous shit that will has never been addressed in any tutorial.

>>386740507
>by the relatively high input barrier.
No, fighting games are even more complex past that. If they give up at that hurdle they would never bother scaling the rest. They'd just go the game is too complex remove X, Y and Z

Smash is popular cause of the IPs, no one gives a rats arses about Icons or those other clones.

>>386740479
>never took off while it was
eyyyyy lamo

>>386740495
>Make the noob easily do a move
>He doesn't know how to use the move well
>Gets mad when someone who knows how to do things does it right
Can't really win with this regardless of what they go for
Good players are going to chase the weaker ones away

>>386740495
No, you are.
Watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0WetHkYVtw

Look how the other player simply does zoning and the scrub goes all screaming pepe at it?
The simplified controls made zoning even easier, and the experienced player can just do it better while the scrub can only cry about it.

>>386738563
>And people call it ''zoning''!
This guy is hilariously bad.

>>386740590
>2017
>people STILL don't understand what DEAD means

>>386740435
Most fighting games you can naturally learn by just fucking playing and experiencing.

>>386740742
Okay, how does anything change from the perspective of the scrub without simplified inputs?

>>386740628
It's contradictory, you basically want to have fun without learning the game.

>>386740628
What about everyone else? There's another person behind that screen, you think he doesn't deserve to win and have fun?

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>>386738563
>>386740742
Why are people bringing up this video as an arguments against simple controls?
When at best it's irrelevant and at worst is in favor of simplified controls?

>>386740426
>taking away situational options because "they are useless trust me :)"
>actually shilling for a game where the shoto character only has a fireball special and a dp super

>>386733050
>we can crush people that don't know the controls
lmao

>>386740703
>No, fighting games are even more complex past that. If they give up at that hurdle they would never bother scaling the rest. They'd just go the game is too complex remove X, Y and Z
Finally someone who gets it.

>>386740823
not seeing contradictions there

>>386740824
both people deserve an equal chance at having fun
and ideally both should have fun no matter the outcome

>>386740797
The scrub will complain about the SUPER COMPLEX INPUTS TURBO instead of the zoning for why he is losing

It just changes the target to blame and he's going to leave anyways along with the players who are looking for more

>>386740868
>actually shilling for a game where the shoto character only has a fireball special and a dp super

He has 4 fireball specials ya dingus.

8 if you count the powered up versions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3jLI27ajDA

And he has a sword instead of shoryu.

>>386740545
I'm talking about in terms of tournament play

No one plays Chaos Code it isn't 2009, Ultimate Marvel 3 is a re-release, Blazblue is on it's last legs and thats a pc release, tetris, ultra street fighter 2 is a switch remake no one plays, arms lol, kof xiv no one plays already, gundam versus isnt a real fighting games, uniel has been dead since 2014.

The only actual games with longevity that came out this year are injustice 2 (until the new MK comes out), Xrd, and Tekken 7

>>386740850
Because despite simple controls the guy finds new excuses and still rages that the game is broke and unfair.

if the idea is to make players not frustrated and have an easier time this failed, in fact it made stuff easier to abuse at a low level.

>>386740768
>WAAH IF IT DOESN'T HAVE SAME NUMBERS AS MY FAVORITE MOBA IT'S DEAD
you're a bitch, these games aren't for you anyway

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Why are people afraid of execution?

How come gamers of older gens did not find it insurmountable? They were not any better than gamers now.

>>386740991
but that's still an argument against the scrub, not the controls

why do you keep confusing these issues

>>386740850
The point is that until you change your childish mentality of "I want everything now" you're still going to be mad at the game, the only difference knowing that it wasn' big bad meanie controls this time, but yourself.

But since you're a manchild you will blame Obama, Drumpf, Hillary, Jews, the mole people before you take a look at yourself in the mirror.

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I really need a tutor. Someone to play me for some hours, beat me and tell me what I'm doing wrong, then force me to mix up every new strategy I learn.
I have no friends who give a damn about fightan, so it's really hard to get better playing online. I'm not a full baddie, but there are some concepts that just won't stick in my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Ht7MeA77I

>>386740850
It's funny because RT had mechanics to prevent spamming fireballs

He bitches about Chell shooting fireballs all day and then bitches about how she has no cooldown on them

The cooldown resets when the opponent either blocks it or gets hit by the projectile

This simple mechanic is completely ignored because he did not care to learn about anything other than him landing combos.

Any sort of nuance that isn't just simplified inputs is going to be lost on someone who isn't even willing to figure out how to QCF

>>386740559
>>386740405
So? It's not like the better player still winning is not intended. Even looking at the quote in the op will show that this is intended and part of the goal of the game.

>>386740991
the guy is an idiot, nothing is going to make him not be an idiot
what does that has to do with the game?

>>386741030
Because they didn't exist. SFII execution is nowhere near the level of what Guilty Gear has, aside from a few outliers.

It started with gamers playing simple games and then growing into more complex ones as publishers kept adding more and more flashy shit which r3equired more and more execution (to the detriment of fundamentals).

>>386740961
>Blazblue on its last legs
>Literally just got a patch and a new character, actively supported
>UNIEL dead
>Still had side tournaments, new game is proving to be even more popular despite not being localized yet
>Both games given pot bonuses by Atlus at CEOtaku
That's not dead anon.

>>386741030
It actually requires practicing

>>386740993
stay ded

>>386740961
>I'm talking about in terms of tournament play
The FGc is bigger than it ever was. Even with SFV struggling it still had more entrants at evo this year than SF4 ever had. The FGc is now getting stadiums and live tv broadcast cause it is at a size where that is a possibility.

>No one plays
No one ever played smaller anime fighters in large numbers that you wrongly said have disappeared. Now that we have stuff like discord it is easier than ever to get games in whatever obscure kuso you want.

>>386741030
I miss Accent Core.

>>386741160
>Literally just got a patch and a new character, actively supported

It's the last character it gets. So yeah, last legs.

>>386738613
doesnt all that other stuff fall under being outplayed ratger than being out executed? if the dude has better mixups and spacing thats a hard thing to argue against. yu cant really say "fuck that man, nobody can take a stwp back to dodge" vs if he did a 12 step combo. its easier to admit you gucked up on one because its something ylu can easily do.

even if the games not your thing wouldnt you ideally want all games to be fun and successful.

>>386741030
>why are people not content with shitting in the shed like 200 years ago
>i shit in the shed, its fine

>>386741030
Back then internet wasn't as widespread so you couldn't see every dumb opinion online.

>>386741042
>>386741116
The controls were to combat this, they failed

If the idea is to appeal to scrubs that cry stuff is too hard and they still cry when you make it easier then there is no point in bothering? You are appealing to people that don't respond positively thus it did not work

>>386741050
Do it yourself idiot

Even if someone spoonfeeds you what to do, unless you put in the practice.
You will never get better.

>>386741030
Old gg had some really pointlessy complicated shit though. Like Inu, im glad they fixed her input now. There is a point where execution just makes the game an asian lair.

>>386741231
>Spacing is a hard thing to argue against
The RT video is 20 minutes of some European guy bitching about exactly that

It's easy to complain if it causes them to lose

>>386741132

But even SFIV was pretty demanding even though it was intended to be easier and back to basics. They should have taken that new audience and pushed them to something a little more complex rather than going backwards even more, and now this.

>>386741047
>"I want everything now"
again, you don't get it, and no one who advocates simplified controls here ever would say that
you are confusing everything again liike youve been doing this entire thread

>bringing /pol/ here
okay im done
bye

>>386741216
You mean just after loads of support post 2015 and a new crossover game?

>>386741253
More like you never realized you were trash. You'd just stay in your small pond, thinking you're hot shit because you beat the cpu on very hard

>>386741286
>Do it yourself
The point was that this isn't possible, since there are no one to play with.

>>386741276
>The controls were to combat this,
No? This is a ridiculous claim to make.

It's not appealing to scrubs. You'd appeal to scrubs with random shit like melee. It's to appeal to casuals, who may or may not be scrubby.

>>386741030
People got softer and realized if they cry hard enough a game developer will cater to them instead of actually creating a game that the core players will want

>>386741160
>>Literally just got a patch and a new character, actively supported
Blazblue is over after that and Arcsys plus every top anime player is only focusing on Xrd now, blazblue is over outside of the few japs playing it

>>Still had side tournaments
Melty Blood still has side tournaments to but would you call a 15 man side tournament at a minor tournament alive?

>>386741075
When will you understand that these people are irrelevant to the discussion?

>>386741286
But having a better player beat the shit out while teaching you what you are doing wrong of you is literally the best way to learn a fighting game.

>>386741336
>okay im done
>bye
Not him, but holy hell are you a massive faggot. You think this is GameFAQs or something?

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>>386741167
keep being unable to perform basic shit in a fighting game

>>386741276
your are and idiot

>>386741216
That doesn't mean the game will suddenly die. BB will stay active until the VS game comes out.

>>386741060
Looks OP as fuck. I just wish the game was faster. Having tons of recovery on top of 7-9 active frames is too much. cut off some of the recovery frames or something.

>>386741307
That video has literally absolutely figuratively nothing to do with what everyone is talking abut here.

>>386741339
That too.
Which is why I insist that the only real thing they have to improve is matchmaking to stop making it so frustrating to lose 10-0 to someone.

>>386741336
>again, you don't get it, and no one who advocates simplified controls here ever would say that
They would not say it but they think it.
Why else would you want to simplify a game genre if not to get "better" at it without having to practice?

>>386741050
Things to think about:

Always try to stay in your characters optimal range, and out of your opponents optimal range. If your character is short range it means staying right in their face for as much as possible, and if your character is long range then keep them away as much as possible.

Condition your opponent to do what you want them to. If you keep attacking low, they will be forced to change their habits to block low. When they are expecting a low, go high. If you are pressuring and they are forced to block, go for a throw. Always think about what you would want to do if you were them.

>>386741368
You are making a retarded distinction. If the casual complains about inputs they are a scrub who will keep making excuses, if they don't complain and will learn the game they would learn inputs anyway cause it is a smaller barrier than learning the game.

Either way this game is pointless

>>386735543
honestly, fuck that.
sick combos and tight execution are fun. this shit is an absolutely essential part of what makes fighting games so appealing. if it was just about 'mindgames' then you might as well play comptetitive rock/paper/scissors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObxYIQNeXdg
shit like this is a large part of what makes the top players so damn impressive.

>>386741382
These are the people who want the games to be accessible to them

see >>386740703
If the inputs is the place they draw the line imagine what happens when it comes to crossups or 50/50s, or god forbid whiff punishing

>>386741436
better than being dead, really

>>386741368
>It's not appealing to scrubs.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>BAWWWW I CAN'T GET A SHORYUKEN RIGHT
>IT'S THE GAME'S FAULT NOT MINE
>not a scrub

>>386741276
>the idea is to appeal to scrubs
>reading comprehension
The dev regularly rants against scrubs in his blog, but even if you didn't know this you can see it from reading the very op that this is not the idea here.

>>386741030
I still hate instant air dashing. I guess I'm just a casual

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>Kotaku thread
>200+ posts, less than 50 posters

Holy fucking shills

>>386741590
>They would not say it but they think it.
Stop projecting, assuming, and putting things in peoples mouths cause you can't comprehend an alternative with your closed mind.

>Why else would you want to simplify a game genre if not to get "better" at it without having to practice?
Your definition of what the game part of fighters is different to people you argue with. You'd realize this if you spent the time reading the thread. And if you still don't you are a moron, I'm sorry.

>>386741608
>shit like this is a large part of what makes the top players so damn impressive.

If that was true, anyone could be a top player with 20 hours in practice mode.

The mindgames and being able to perform under pressure is what makes a top player a top player, not being able to execute some retarded combo.

>>386741608
Only if it looks good at the end. I never liked 4's high execution stuff because most of the links look fucking boring, no matter how difficult they are
Unless you're dudley doing cr.hk five times in the corner. That looked cool

>hey broman lets play chess
>oh i love chess!
>but i have this board and the pieces are 500 kilograms so you have to lift for years to be able to play

>>386741723
>The Splatoon thread up right now has 120 posts and 60 posters
>50%

Can we just ban them??

>>386741708
>The dev regularly rants against scrubs
He is also the moron who balanced HDR, really going to take an anecdote with no proof from that idiot?

>>386741708
Then who the hell are they appealing to?
A non-retarded player will just learn the inputs, a scrub will always blame anything else that isn't himself and there are no people in-between that.
Again, if you don't have the patience to learn controls you don't have the patience to learn match-ups, punishing, frame advantage, 50/50 etc.etc.

>>386741603
JESUS CHRIST NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT THE THINGS YOU THINK THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT YOU FUCKING SIMPLETON

>>386741312
As much as I don't care for SFIV it did one thing very well, low skill floor, high skill ceiling.

The barrier of entry is low so people who don't care much about fighting games can play and fuck around with most mechanics without much effort. But the game still has a high skill ceiling that if you so chose to work twords will be rewarded for.

>>386733050
why dpes a man this pseudo-intellectual and pretentious love fighting games, the stupidest game genre of all

>>386741618
>These are the people who want the games to be accessible to them
No they are not and you're an idiot.

>>386741735
i didnt mean to say that tight execution is all that separates pros from scrubs. far from it.
i said that tight execution (especially in a high pressure and stressful environment like a tournament finals in front of a live audience) is part of what makes high level play so appealing and impressive.

>>386741735
>20 hours in practice mode
Yeah, if you mean for each single link

>>386733050
>int fag trying to rewrite history to avoid using str and dex in sport
Just go back to school and get some science diplomas if you value intelligence so much

>>386741870
>A non-retarded player will just learn the inputs
>there are no people in-between that.
get off your high horse and get your head out of your arse mate

>>386741896
>why dpes a man this pseudo-intellectual and pretentious love fighting games

what

>the stupidest game genre of all
lol

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>/v/ only likes the fighting games that are built from the ground up to skip past the actual experience

>>386741843
>He is also the moron who balanced HDR
Unironically best version of SFII. It removed a bunch of retarded shit and it compacted tiers a lot.

It's not without faults, but it's like 80% good ideas and 20% meh. Any other problem was on capcom and the online stor limitations (not being able to have backgrounds, for example).

It just gets a bad rep from pros because they wanted ST ver. 9000 with all their cheap shit intact.

>>386741825
>>386741825
>>386741825

>>386741728
>Your definition of what the game part of fighters is different to people you argue with
Yeah, I'm right and they're wrong.
Other posters have put it in way better words than me, if you remove complexity you hurt the whole genre, you have 6 face buttons for a reason and that reason is to put more tools at your disposal.
And the "complex" button inputs are there to balance stuff, a character is supposed to look forward to throw a fireball because it makes it punishable, if you can hold back and just shoot your fireball, that makes it a problem.
If King in Tekken had easy inputs it would also be a problem, how do you tech out of his parries if he just have to push a button?
Do you just give every character less special moves so you don't run out of buttons?
Do you turn it into smash?

>>386741912
Didn't even try to refute the point being made

FGC isn't asking for more accessibility
r/Kappa isn't asking for more accessibility
Casuals don't even look at the genre

You're just left with scrubs who want to be good but don't care to learn or know how to learn

>>386738563
>Complaining about zoning and proper play while playing a dishonest scumbag set up character

I especially like the part where he claims to have done more for FGC than Seth Killian as an online warrior.

>>386742037
>you have 6 face buttons for a reason
That reason being that "SF2 had 6 face buttons".

And the reason for that being "SF1 arcade cabinet had 3 strengths for punch/kick".

>>386741994
>removed a bunch of retarded shit
>didn't remove stored oicho

>250 posts over 632236 motion
I thought there aren't supposed to be casuals on /v/

>>386741825
Nope, it's more like
>Hey bro lets play chess
>but I just couldn't learn the rules so all pieces are queens so you can move how you want without having to think about it!

>>386742051
And you're just an idiot that cant wrap his mind around a simple concept that has been outlined a dozen of times in the very thread you're posting in.

>>386742051
>Casuals don't even look at the genre

Ever wonder why?

I haven't been to /v/ in years, I had no idea marketing was this open and blatant.

>>386741825
>hey broman lets play chess
>oh i love ches...wait this is checkers not chess
>the different pieces just get in the way of the mindgames broman

>>386741969
Anon it's time you face the truth and realize you're a scrub.

>>386741827
>hating video game discussion

>>386742137
Then who is asking for simple controls?
Who is showing support for these things you want?

Because Fantasy Strike sure is dead in the water and RT didn't even have 3K players

>>386742125
Is this what FS does? Can you just move however you want?

>>386742173
This one would be better if it was true.

>>386742165
Too much personal responsibility and it's too hard for their thumbs to make simple motions they do all day in any other genre they play all day

>>386741893
>low skill floor, high skill ceiling
This

The problem with the whole make combos easy argument is new players should not care about combos. You will be matched with or arrange matches with other similar level players unless being specifically taught. High damage won't be done cause none of you can do it and the game will generally be played at a slower pace. By doing this you generally get better at the base game and learn more about the game over time playing. You are not required to learn everything yet and much won't apply to your matches for a while.

Fantasy Strike however requires you to do the optimal combos straight away cause everyone can, also learn everyone's gimmicks now on top of general fighting game shit. It doesn't ease you in despite being built to. This is from a low ceiling

>>386741924
Personally don't find it impressive
Pressing a button at the right time vs pressing a couple of them at the right time will never be as impressive to me as deducing THE right time to press those buttons.

>>386742165
They're low motivation retards?

>>386742167
>le shill
you are new as fuck

>>386742243
>Too much personal responsibility
Okay sure.
>and it's too hard for their thumbs to make simple motions they do all day in any other genre they play all day

What other genre requires you to do a SRK motion for a punch? Or 360s?

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>>386741608
>its wrong if people dont like what I like!
honestly to me this game is perfect to play with friends. In one hour tops everyone is already playing the matchups and doing cool shit. Imagine trying to play guilty gear in a lan party with non-fightan friends. It's impossible.
It may not be the competitive cream some of you fags want, but it is what it is: a way to distill some of the fun in the genre and simplify it so everyone can play and feel good.

>>386741843
Sirlin being a faggot isn't the matter here. If you say the game not appealing to scrubs is a flaw but everything written about the game says it doesn't even plan on appealing to scrubs then you didn't read or you're reaching.
>>386741870
They want to remove a part of the learning (the execution) but not the other (not execution). I can't make it any more simple.

>>386742165
Casuals dont want to play a game where they can only blame themselves for their loss. This is why every 1 on 1 videogame has a pretty tight community, except cardgames where its either decided by the rng in the cards themselves or by the luck of the draw

>>386742037
>Yeah, I'm right and they're wrong.
Jesus christ...
What is even the point in your posting if you're so adamant to your ways? There is no logical reason for you to do this.

>>386742317
>360s
Any modern FPS has you moving your controller analog all day with your right hand
Takes more spacial awareness too because it's in a 3D environment and not a 2D plane

SRK I'll give to you

>>386742037
>And the "complex" button inputs are there to balance stuff, a character is supposed to look forward to throw a fireball because it makes it punishable, if you can hold back and just shoot your fireball, that makes it a problem.

this is a very important concept that people often overlook.
some people seem to think that a dragon punch is locked behind a forward-down-down/forward motion just to make the game more difficult.
the reality is that a dragon punch is a tool that blows through frame traps and beats pretty much any airborne attack in the game.
that shit is fucking strong! just think about it - an invincible anti-air that beats pretty much every jump-in, never trades, and never gets stuffed. if this move was accessible just as easily as regular buttons, it would be fucking overpowered. that's why the motion input exists.

same for fireballs, command grabs, charge moves and supers.

The problem with Sirlin and many american fighting game players is that they are so hellbent on winning that their sole focus is on gameplay mechanics. Back in the real world players actually care about aesthetics. OR IN PLAIN ENGLISH SIRLINS GAMES ARE FUGLY. I hope someone reads that back to him. No offense though i like the guy!

>>386742383
>Any modern FPS has you moving your controller analog all day with your right hand

But every motion has an immediate effect. You aren't spinning your analog around so that you can press a button after it and throw a grenade or rewind time or whatever.

You are doing what you want to do instead of there being an extra step there.

>>386742198
>Fantasy Strike sure is dead
>not even open beta yet

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>>386742263
this
>>386742354
>casuals in fighting games are casuals in every videogame, ever!
Maybe people dont play every genre perfectly. There is an enourmous potential crowd of players who are out of the loop because of complex mechanics and generically speaking, a lack of interest enough to take the time to learn one of these games.

>>386737470
>it is THE reason fighting games are dead
I'm not a fighting game faggot, but I played fucking tekken and street fighter and soul calibur and smash when I was like 14 and had lots of fun, even against my friend who was much more into practice and shit than I was and also was the guy who owned most of those games
it's not hard at all to get into

>>386742472
Still takes precision if you want to hit anything
Their thumbs clearly can do things

Driving a car is harder than anything in games yet people go full retard with fighting games

>>386742353
>They want to remove a part of the learning
But that part isn't hard , no player who would actually become dedicated would turn there noes up there but be up for sitting in training figuring out how to punish certain moves. I can't make it any more simple.

You have decided this is the hurdle they can't cross despite multiple attempts including this one none of these games take off. No one is even backing this game. The point you have decided is the big sticking point actually isn't.

>>386742529
>86k/500k on their crowdfunding site
>14 days left to fund it
It's dead in the water

>>386737470
but fighting games aren't dead. the hell are you saying you dumb slut

>>386742564
precision isnt tied to execution? You are comparing aiming to doing a 360 motion?

>>386742165
>Ever wonder why?
because it's 1v1 and purely deterministic.
popular games among casuals are either team based (dota, counter strike) or full of RNG (hearthstone, pubg). in those games, losses can be rationalized by blaming teammates or bad luck.
fighting games have none of that. win or lose comes down to nothing but your own decision making and skill. every loss means that you simply got outplayed by your opponent, and that makes losing painful and frustrating to the casual. hence he shies away from the genre.

>>386742391
Same goes for supers. A lot of them are really fast, totally invincible and have crazy range. If you could just press a button and get it the game would shut down the instant one guy gets meter. But instead, you have to telegraph it pretty hard with two qcf motions and can't block while you're attempting it.

>>386742557
Tekken 3 SCI&II are all really approachable, though, compared to current, traditional 2d fighters.

I also started with T2/3/TTT and SC2.

>>386742617
>3.5k$ monthly on patreon
>already confirmed for ps4
>free weekends for pc
?

>>386742353
>They want to remove a part of the learning (the execution
someone who refuses to learn that and says that is why they can't learn or get good is a scrub

>>386742648
You have to make fine movements with your thumbs
How is this any different from moving your thumb from down to right or left?
The timeframe? Because it's still lenient

>>386742320
>In one hour tops everyone is already playing the matchups and doing cool shit.
and in two hours everybody gets bored of playing a glorified series of rock paper scissors lmao

>>386742391
you can balance for that
it doesnt have to just be macros on a button for an existing move

FS has character where walking forward he cant shoot his shoto shot for example and there is a cooldown if he does walk forward

>>386742535
No there isnt, thats exactly the point. If it was the case RT would have had millions of players, like there were millions of players waiting for a game like LoL or hearthstone.

>>386734235

Smash bros has been doing this for years

>>386742730
>Free weekends to try and get people to be interested
>No extra funding
>$3.5k on Patreon when they need 420K still(Needs a literal decade to fund the game if going by these numbers)
??

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>>386742752
>you move your thumb left
>moves camera left
>moves thumb right
>moves camera right
in fighting games
>moves thumb in half a circle motion
>character shoots fireball
yeah same thing retard

Tell me this
what is more important to you in fighting games:
1. inputs
2. footsies and mindgames

>>386742730
You man Sirlin games is, FS is just the main thing they are pushing. Which if it was enough they wouldn't need fig

also
>323 patrons
wow huge audience there

>>386742535
>There is an enourmous potential crowd of players who are out of the loop because of complex mechanics and generically speaking, a lack of interest enough to take the time to learn one of these games.
Those players should just play old games with friends in their oh-so-precious free time instead of asking for an entire genre to be dumbed down for them.

>>386742673
>>386742557
This all goes out the window when your execution gets good enough to do the input the fastest possible way, you use buffering, or you OS stuff.

Execution as a balancing tool is stupid, and you can absolutely build a game around not having it.

Okay, let's take the reversal for example. How about instead of the SRK input it's just... down+forward? You get the same benefit (can't do it while blocking) and you can just increase the startup by as many frames as the fastest execution is. What's lost here?

>>386742803
RT was a beta that lived for like 3 months and had next to no marketing behind it.

>>386742879
>>386742752
>Literal blind guy going to SF tournaments and slowly moving his way out of pools
>Short midget with two working fingers can pull off combo videos with his tongue and places high in tournaments
>People still bitching about shoryukens
What does someone like Brolylegs has that a normie doesn't?

>>386742814
smash isnt simple at all. its actually one of the most technical and high-execution fighting games on the market.

i personally dont like smash at all, but claiming that it is simple or easy is just wrong.

Main 3 reasons that fighting games don't really have any presence:
-They're bad for spectators
-Games that they could have interest in have execution barriers. Games like SFV have less so but Tekken will just tell you to fuck off (unless you have a Hitbox lmao because it trivializes everything)
-Mid-level play of every fighting game is about dishonest bullshit and trying to block it. Also it's prohibitive to people with average reaction times, even moreso than some shooters. (IE if you're not reacting at 15 frames on average you won't get anywhere)

>>386742786
And that allows less than a charge motion, for example you can charge while dashing that opens up certain opportunities. You can buffer a charge in certain moves or charge partition to make certain combos possible when they appear not to be

If you make it a meter it defines then and there what is possible and isn't there can be no smart use of charge timings

>>386742803
In case you didn't know
RT was getting popular before RIOT bought them out and snuffed it
Its THE reason riot bought them out

>>386742676
we also played street fighter 3 on the arcade cabinets in our local card game store, it was also fun and cool even if I could tell it was more difficult
>>386742914
like I said, I'm a fighting game casual so I don't really have any real insight into the genre, but won't limiting moves to really basic inputs not leave enough room for all of the moves?

>>386742914
RT was marketed constantly on fighting game sites and at EVO

>>386742907
>entire genre to be dumbed down for them.
literally no one is asking this
no one is talking about street fighter 6 here

>>386742893
If you can't learn inputs you can't learn "mindgames" more complicated than rock paper scissors.
This whole argument is people complaining they can't code because basic algebra is too hard for them but hey, I swear I could code the next Final Fantasy if I didn't have to learn CS for it!

>>386742770
ikr lmoa!

>>386742981
>RT was getting popular
It got shilled by their FGC buddies and then was dead for a while before disappearing when it got picked up and died again

>>386742914
>Okay, let's take the reversal for example. How about instead of the SRK input it's just... down+forward?
So a fireball?

>>386742967
>What does someone like Brolylegs has that a normie doesn't?
dedication

>normies claim that it's too hard and demand accessibility
>meanwhile a literal cripple without functional hands manages to do it by wiggling his fucking tongue around the controller

>>386743018
Yes, and it got the same retarded scrubs screaming about it as you are seeing in this thread.

Instead of marketing it to casuals who would be susceptible because they haven't been trained by the community to think that having Desk combos in a game is good.

>>386742967
>>386742907
nobody is dumbing down the genre, the audience for this autistic input heavy games will still live on
increasing the scope of the genre can do harm, but it can also bring more players, more games and increase the quality

>>386743068
>was dead
I played it from start to finish so you can't lie to my face dickhead. Try again.

>>386742893
the reason I love doa so much is because it has a higher focus on (2) with easy inputs and a counter button that works if you predict your opponents movements. sadly I hear fgc and tourneyfags in general hate doa simply because they can't steamroll their opponent

>>386742914
>he can't even do a fucking SHORYUKEN
>"i'm n-not a s-s-scrub I swear!"
>muh mindgames
>muh footsies
EBIN JUST EBIN

>>386743148
What was the player count when it was shut down?

>>386743078
No, down+forward. Diagonal down.
Fireball could be idk, hold punch?

>>386743026
Answer the question or fuck off