what do you think of overwatch as an esport

esports are a meme, but of them quake is the only one not worthy of scorn and ridicule and I'm not even sure if that counts as one

>>386720779
I don't mind it. I'm glad more games are rising up so that there is a little more variety. Although, Counter-Strike will always be my favorite.

>>386720779
>>386720903
>>386721062
Sad that most eSports won't reach the level of Super Smash Brothers Melee for Nintendo Gamecube.

>>386720779
much like most normal sports, i don't care

>>386720779
In most games there are spikes in player skill as you go further and further up in how skillful players are, where the top 5% crushes the other 95% and the 5% is crushed by a small 1% of the 5% and a small number in that 1% crush the remainder in the 1% and on and on. According to them pretty much every multiplayer game is equally capable of being an e-sport.

>>386721449
Much like any physical activity, if enough people watch it and throw enough money at it, it will be considered a sport.

The same applies to video games.

>>386720779
Like the base game, boring.

>>386721239
fag

Too silly and frantic to take seriously

>>386721585
k

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>>386721189

>>386720779
Overwatch is less about individual skill and more about team composition, which turns the game into a slightly more complex version of rock paper scissors, where there's 25 options and only 8 of them are viable in competition. This would be fine if the viable 8 characters actually had things you could use creatively, but no, every character in the game is made for a singular purpose so there's absolutely no room to improvise with your character.
3/10

>>386721718
>melee is a bad game because there's a group of people considerably better than everyone else
how is this the game's fault?

>>386721718
I really like melee as a game, but its this right here that makes me glad i'm not into it competitively.
>>386721834
it's not the games fault, but it's also boring to watch when it's the same people, with the characters tournament after tournament

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Do people really enjoy playing the same two gamemodes on a small pool of maps with the same established team compositions every time?

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>>386721718
>it's a solved game
>goes on to bitch about how only 4 people have solved it

>he thinks tech skill/muscle memory equates to a victory
>meanwhile X_FoX_McClOuD_X is multishining his way to an 0-2

>he thinks "LE EPIC UPSET" is the only way to make a video game or "esport" watchable
Makes me laugh every time. Keep posting this, it's really great and shows how loose of an argument FGC players have against Melee's success. Hoesntly it seems like jealousy at this point. Jealous of the passion, jealous of the grassroots, jealous of the success.

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>>386720779
>Debunks the theory that OW is a relatively low skill ceiling game
How? It says nothing of the game, it says that South Korea continues the trend of obsessively playing video games 24/7. It's a testament to SK, not to OW.

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melee
quake
brood war
marvel 2
dota

the pinnacles of esports

>>386722065
what other game modes could over watch even have without its utterly skull fucking the balance?
Could you imagine playing capture the flag against a fucking tracer

>>386722409
What? If the skill ceiling is low it would be easy to reach and therefore South Koreans wouldn't be so much better than everyone. Your post makes no sense.

>>386722553
Imagine no farther because CTF was implemented like 6 months ago for the chinese new year.

It fucking sucked, not because of characters like tracer, but because fucking no one could break the forts built up by the pillow and it turned into one or two characters per side actively trying. Games normally ended in draws because nobody could get a flag. I played so many games because my friends wanted to and any game that didn't end in a draw ended with 0-1, rather than getting to 3.

I really hope overwatch never gets streamed at the Olympics or whatever.

There might be some really high lvl play involved but it's a horrible chaotic spectator game. It really looks like some random silly characters running/jumping/flying around frantically and spamming. It would get ridiculed and ruin every chance of esports being taken seriously.

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>>386722734
The CTF would've probably had a chance at being decent if Blizzard didn't somehow fuck it up.

I don't know why or how, but they thought making the flag act like a capture point and you needing SIX UNINTERRUPTED SECONDS to pick it up was a good idea.

Why couldn't they just do it the same way everyone else did it? It's so simple.

>>386723127
>needing SIX UNINTERRUPTED SECONDS to pick it up was a good idea.
Fucking what

>>386722734
>Games normally ended in draws because nobody could get a flag
So it's like instagib CTF in UT.

>>386720779
i dont

If an Asian team is dominating your shooter, then something is very fucking wrong.

In things like CSGO and other arena shooters, Asians don't even get remotely close to even qualifying for majors, much less dominate.

>>386723275
Yeah. If you got shot at all or someone "contested" the flag by standing next to it you couldn't pick it up.It was complete BS

>>386721834
It's not that melee is a bad game; it's that melee is a bad game to have in tournaments.

>>386720779
I don't think the game has ever been well-balanced enough for counterpicking to be the huge dynamic the developers intended it to be.

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>implying south korea won't be nuked into oblivion by based kim

>>386723920
>Implying he'd nuke the country right next to his

Kiddo you need to go to bed

>>386722734
It was awful because blizzard made grabs take sitting around like an idiot by the flag because getting capped would hurt players' feelings.

If they just played it straight with no bullshit it'd be fine.

>>386720779
>reddit
>overwatch shit
Typical

>>386720779
i thought people just logged on this game for cosmetics bi-annually

there is actually a competitive scene for this game? like tournaments? with real money?

>>386722734

CTF was complete utter trash. Blizzard had so many good examples to draw from and they managed to fuck it up anyway. Treating the flag like a capture point just boggles my mind.

I think if Asians are dominating your scene, then the game definitely does NOT have a high skill ceiling.

Asians can't even qualify for low level tournaments or get out of group stages in open brackets in CSGO, how the fuck are they dominating OW?

>>386724430
Well they'd have to take interest in the game first

They avoid all of Valve's games like the plague, don't ask why, I don't know.
They even have their own fucking version of Counter Strike they play selectively in their own region

>>386724292
Just Korea and ActiBlizzard's Overwatch League, which I'm convinced is mostly just a money laundering scheme since many of the team owners are friends of Bobby Kotick.

>>386720779

>built from the ground up for esports

even though it started as a mmo and single hero limit was a thing. $140mil in investments (and couting? maybe?), $140mil right in to the shitter

What do you think of esport?

>>386724548
well that's not true, chinks are all about dota

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>>386722734
CTF didn't work in Overshit because it's a slow, shitty game.

The likelihood of CTF working in a game is proportional to the speed of the game. That's why CTF worked well in Team Fortress Classic, but didn't work anywhere near as well in Team Fortress 2, and doesn't work at all in Overshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm1ajobCgxA

>>386720779
Nobody takes it seriously so a bunch of dedicated asians dominate, who cares.

>>386720779
>OW is a low skill ceiling game compared to tf2

I love this meme. Think about OW what you want, but when the casual piece of shit that is tf2 which
>has only 4 viable classes
>took almost a decade to have something remotely resembling a balance
>random crits
>no matchmaking for the longest time, just get tossed into random p2w servers if you hit "connect to random server" where you are probably playing against bots
>can cancel reloading animations
>no headshots on anyone who isnt sniper or spy with a specific weapon because we wouldn't want people with good aim to dominate others
>completely horrible maps that are far worse than anything the OW team shit out, all PL maps heavily favoring the attacker team
Is considered to be "espurts" then so is OW.

Fuck delusional tf2 fags. I like the game but because it was a funny no skill game to mess around on because nobody took is serious, not a fucking e-sports.

>>386727551

I don't think anyone considers TF2 a esports game. Maybe it had it's own little comp scene but truth to be told, only a hundred people cared about that.

>>386723127
I guarantee it was their hamfisted way of making tanks necessary for the mode. Rather than just letting the meta play out on its own, they decided to force what they wanted as always. Blizzard must control every single facet of interaction; if you do anything outside of their script, they will ""fix""" it.

>>386723586
Its because its not a shooter, its a moba.

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>>386727551
>>has only 4 viable classes
5 actually. That's more than 50% of the roster. And TF2 doesn't have 25 classes like Overshit, it has 9 base classes with 170 weapon unlocks.

And a Blizzfag is SERIOUSLY going to talk shit about balance? Have you even looked at the absolute state of Overwatch?

>>took almost a decade to have something remotely resembling a balance
Balance (variety of equally useful strategies on offer) has little to nothing to do with skill ceiling (amount of tricks you can pull off with the class). 5 of TF2's classes have more skill in them than OW's entire roster.
>random crits
Aren't turned on in competitive play.
>just get tossed into random p2w servers if you hit "connect to random server"
This faggot doesn't know about the server browser.
>can cancel reloading animations
TF2 actually has reloading unlike a certain shitty game I could name.
>no headshots on anyone who isnt sniper or spy with a specific weapon because we wouldn't want people with good aim to dominate others
Rich coming from a player of a game where almost every character has either an aimbot or a wide AoE attack that's impossible to miss.
Just naming the aimbots alone: Soldier 76, Winston, Zenyatta, Torbjorn, Symmetra, McCree.

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>>386723586
>Overshit
>shooter
https://youtu.be/QsH0ZXWeZZs?t=5432

>>386729020
i don't disagree with you on just about anything but how are zen and mccree aimbots

>>386729527
orb of discord (I guess you could argue that it's not a true aimbot since it doesn't damage, but there's still zero skill in aiming it)
deadeye

>>386720779
Blizzard are forcing diversity in the western league, which makes them shit.

>>386729759
That's retarded
Most of their time is spent actually aiming since they're some of the most aim-reliant heroes in the game
Deadeye is considered one of the worst ults in the game, or at least was until it was changed recently

>>386720779
It's the most boring game to watch I've ever seen. I'm having more fun spectating fucking Hearthstone.

>>386720779
It's too slow and too oriented around teamwork
eSports aren't fun to watch if you can't have that one guy wrecking everybody's shit, nothing impressive ever happens, it's always just
>Stalemate until someone gets a pick
>Okay rush in and press Q

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>>386729020
>5 actually.
Yeah look at all those snipers we dont see in 6v6
> And TF2 doesn't have 25 classes like Overshit
Exactly, Valve can't even balance 9 classes in over 10 years. OW has almost 3 times the numbers of classes and did a better job balancing in less than a year than valve did in 10 years with a third of the numbers of classes to balance.
>with 170 weapon
Which are so badly balanced that players had to make a huge list of banned weapons because valve couldnt balance them for shit lel
>Balance has little to nothing to do with skill ceiling
If you want your game to be competitive you need a proper balance, Valve clearly doesn't give a shit about balance and cares more about hats
>5 of TF2's classes have more skill in them than OW's entire roster.
Sure, especially the medic has an incredible high skill ceiling top kek. No headshots, reloading cancel, automatic reload no cooldowns to juggle no ults to coordinate
>Aren't turned on in competitive play.
The fact that they exist in the first place shows that tf2 is geared towards casual play
>This faggot ...
The fact that you have to go out of your way to find people of equal skill level rather than getting assigned a skill rating and actually getting matched with people of equal skill shows that tf2 doesnt care about being an actual competitive game
>TF2 actually has reloading ...
Did you even play OW? Yes OW has reloading and unlike tf2 where it reloads automatically for you and you can cancel the animation at any time you actually die in OW if you reload at the wrong time because you can't shoot for a second.
>Rich coming from ...
That's rich coming from a tf2fag where the only viable dps classes are soldier and demo who are AoE and scout who goes into melee range anyways. McCree, 76, Genji, Tracer, Widow actually need to aim and can actually shoot heads.

Hilarious how jaded and delusional the tf2 community has become. All those mental gymnastics just because they are mad OW is more popular now.

>>386722314

(you)

>>386723275
Now imagine that on TF2

>turtling teams that just heal each other to full health in a second
>map control doesn't mean anything because the only powerups are health, which you get free from your pocket healer anyway
>unlimited ammo so you're not punished for missing shots
>unlimited lives with 3 second spawn times right at your control point with absolutely no punishment for dying

It's about as fun to play as facebook's farmville.

>>386729890
>since they're some of the most aim-reliant heroes in the game
When the most "aim-reliant heroes" the game has to offer also pack a fucking stun and lock-on ability, you know there's a serious problem.
>Deadeye is considered one of the worst ults in the game, or at least was until it was changed recently
Yeah, so that's not an argument then, is it? You're the retarded one dear anon.

>>386730415
Doesn't TF2 flag pick up instantly?

>>386730762
Indeed. But my point was imagine the same system in TF2. It's fucking horrible.

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>>386730206
>did a better job balancing
Explain this overfags
Protip: you can't :^)

>>386731539
I see 11 heroes with have above 5% usage that is more 7 more than tf2 :^^)

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>>386721718
I remember that thread I was in there. Nintenbro's where BTFO that day.

Are they implying that if the game is easy, koreans would be bad at it?

>>386731539
Tournament play in team games is a circlejerk where everyone tacitly agrees ahead of time who to play so they all have less work to do in training

>>386722314
>anything that deviates from the norm of having the same four autists win everything is "LE EPIC UPSET" in the minds of Meleefags

>>386731539

You know pyros in TF2 always get shit for just W+M1?

Its like with Winston Blizzard tried to think of a way they could make that a more viable playstyle.

>>386731703
They're saying if there was a low skill ceiling that Americans would stand a chance since the vastly-more-dedicated Koreans wouldn't get much extra value out of their much greater skill

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>>386731601
>Blizzard can't even balance 14 heroes properly
WOOOOOOOOW

>>386722314
>Melee's success

Not in recent years, everyone has moved on to other games while Melee fags just stay where they are in a corner. The same 4 people, the same matchups. Also please fuck off to Reddit.

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>>386721718

god damn, my boy went savage on melee babees.

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>>386730206
>Exactly, Valve can't even balance 9 classes in over 10 years
Because TF2 puts FUN first and balance second.
Unlike Over"tank meta"watch.
What's the point of perfectly balancing all your strategies if they aren't enjoyable? What's the point of buffing tanks to compete with skilled classes if they're not exciting to watch and play?
Every single class got used in the finals of the last two competitive tournaments TF2 had. That's more than I can say for Overwatch.
>Yeah look at all those snipers we dont see in 6v6
Yeah you really actually watch/play 6v6 and haven't just heard it mentioned by name on /v/ LMAO https://youtu.be/GcAOfUjQMgA?t=4198 Sniper gets used pretty much every game unless the team doesn't have anyone who mains him
>If you want your game to be competitive you need a proper balance
Again, the discussion is skill ceiling, don't shift the goalposts. Balance has little to nothing to do with skill ceiling.
>a huge list of banned weapons
24 weapons you dumbass. And out of those Valve is making good balance changes to 6.
>no cooldowns to juggle no ults to coordinate
>Medic
Fucking retard alert.
>tf2 is geared towards casual play
You're unironically arguing Overwatch isn't? LMAO
>where it reloads automatically for you
This is a good thing, the fact of pressing the button to reload isn't the skillful fact, it's knowing when and how much to reload. TF2 has this skill on almost every class, OW does not
>where the only viable dps classes are soldier and demo who are AoE and scout who goes into melee range anyways
>leaving out Sniper again
Yeah so more than a third of the roster, and if you unironically say Scout doesn't take skill because he goes into melee range, you are definitely baiting.

Following up with webms to show the thread why you're wrong beyond doubt.

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>>386730206
>>386732118
>because scout goes into melee range he isn't skillful
The absolute state of Blizzdrones.

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>>386730206
>>386732118
Here we see a Demo player launching himself with an explosive, detonating another explosive in midair to gain even more height ("climbing"), and then juggling an enemy to the other side of the map with an explosive, and landing a perfect midair direct hit on that juggled player.

Nothing this skillful exists in Overwatch, full stop.

>>386732184
>webm of soldier/demo missing every shot on a scout

Woah you sure showed everyone tf2fags :^)

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>>386730206
>>386732118
Because TF2 isn't built entirely around long cooldowns and MOBA abilities, it allows the player's skill to shine through.

The same is not true for Overwatch. In Overwatch, this player would have died a minute in to a Hanzo ult flying across the map, or a Winston jumping and autoaiming him to death, or all the players he killed would have been revived by Mercy immediately.
>>386732324
>Because unskilled players exist the game's skill ceiling is not high
Continue to squirm while I ravage your anus.

>>386720779
As an esport: it is not a good game.

I will compare it to CS:GO because that is my metric for what makes a good and successful e-sport.

In CS:GO there's an obvious ebb and flow of the action. Players will often set up and then execute off of smokes and flashes. This makes it very obvious for a spectator when something is happening. In Overwatch the "time to kill" is so incredibly high it can often exceed a player's respawn time, allowing them to join back into a teamfight. Ultimates are so frequent that acquiring and using one results in an immediate retaliatory ultimate from the opposing force, effectively making them cancel each other out.

There's a reason many people watch the "bronze to GM" challenges. It gives them hope that if they just get good enough then they too could reach a certain level of competence. The reality is that a GM player is only slightly more consistent than a master, which is only slightly more consistent than a diamond, etcetera.

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>>386730206
>>386732118
Overwatch's focus is on being an esports game, yet fails at that.
TF2's focus is being a fun game which manages to have a higher skill ceiling than OW while not even trying.

>>386732445
>posts webm of opponents missing every shot claiming it is high skill
>gets called out on his bullshit
>"Because unskilled players exist the game's skill ceiling is not high"

Fucking hilarious. This is the mental state of tf2 fags. No wonder the game is dead. Enjoy your hats, no headshots and auto cancelable auto reloading :^)

The problem with Overwatch isn't a low skill ceiling. Of course a game with instant movement acceleration and hitscan mechanics is going to have a high skill ceiling. The biggest problems are:

-Very low strategical depth
-Almost complete lack of "solo-carry" ability
-Blizzard """"Balance""""

The first issue is because of the core design of how the heros interact with each, and how this leads to there essentially being a "best" comp for each map. The second issue means that the truly skilled players can't display their ability when a giant monkey lands on their head. The best player in the world is completely reliant on their team for things that are out of their control. The third issue is the track record of blizzard and their complete inability to balance games. Anyone who's played WoW or SC2 knows this.

>>386732309
>Nothing this skillful exists in Overwatch, full stop.
junkrat can do that. plus he's getting a second mine so possibly he'll be more mobile. with your reasoning junkrat will require more skill than demo after patch.

>>386732445
>The same is not true for Overwatch. In Overwatch, this player would have died a minute in to a Hanzo ult flying across the map, or a Winston jumping and autoaiming him to death, or all the players he killed would have been revived by Mercy immediately.

then you are approaching ow wrong. you die if you run and gun in csgo, does that make it less skillful? you need to consider every game differently. its easy to sling shit behind your cover.

"tf2 is less skillful because there is no ults to coordinate" you sound exactly like this. please stop.

>>386732324

>when blizzkids get so desperate they have to start implying that good players arent good, but the other players are bad

your game sucks bud

>trying to argue about skill in a game that has an autoaim ult, several tethering weapons, timed instant kill ult, horrible hitboxes, an AoE insta-gib

>>386732309
(You)

>>386732590
>junkrat can do that
I fucking wish junkrat could do that.
He loses all forward momentum for no fucking reason.

>>386722701
Ceiling and learning curve are two different things. You can plateau in the curve, which eventually becomes very steep before achieving the elevation of the ceiling. Plus they're probably all stimmed out on addies and monster to play games 24/7. Addies make anybody play gud.

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>>386732590
>junkrat can do that
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
>>386730206
>>386732118
>>posts webm of opponents missing every shot claiming it is high skill
They're missing shots because TF2 allows players to continuously dodge enemy attacks, meaning that there is a higher requirement of skill from both players in a fight: a skilled dodger can evade an unskilled shooter, a skilled shooter can hit an unskilled dodger.

In Overwatch, dodging mechanisms are gated behind cooldowns. You can dodge once and then you've blown your movement ability. In a game where everyone moves at the speed of a walking Soldier, this means targets are not hard to hit at all, and even a player who is skilled at dodging can do nothing due to their gimped movespeed.

It's also telling that you have no retort to any of the other webms.
>Enjoy your hats
I will.
>no headshots
Nothing impressive about landing headshots on enemy players who are moving at the speed of TF2's second slowest character.
>and auto cancelable auto reloading
Already rebutted this one.

Cry all you want, but the BTFOing will continue.
Everyone in this thread knows that you have nothing to match what I'm posting. Why? Because Overwatch's skill ceiling is magnitudes lower than TF2's.
Game, set and match.

>>386732510
>>386732309
>stupid gimmicks that are extremely unreliable and require the other team to fail
Yeah sure is high skill ceiling
>>386732445
That is actually high skill footage, but then widow in OW can do the same thing and since she actually has mobility and can headshot people airborne her skill ceiling is even higher.

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Whether or not TF2 is more skilled than OW doesn't really matter. Just going from the webms posted I would much rather watch competitive TF2 because I can actually see what's happening and appreciate the individual skilled plays.

I watched some of OW world cup recently and that game is just a clusterfuck. Not only are the fights themselves a mess but there's little to no downtime, it's just constant retard rushing. Pace and flow is a really important part for most competitive games, if a game is literally just constant brainless action it wears on you pretty quickly. That's why HotS fails too.

>>386732590

>junkrat can do that. plus he's getting a second mine so possibly he'll be more mobile. with your reasoning junkrat will require more skill than demo after patch.

junkrat will never move as fast as demo jumping, therefore making the shots easier

his bombs will explode for full damage even if theyre rolling, so it isn't necessary for him to hit directs

airstrafing and advanced movement mechanics don't exist in overwatch for most of the heros (especially the healers), so that medic wouldn't be able to react in a skillful way if he's bombed by a junkrat

and any pick a junkrat can get by jumping in and 2 piping another hero will never be as meaningful as the pick that demo got because ults don't go away when you die. all dying means is you wait for the respawn and push again. the pick that demo go completely changed the outcome of that round

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>>386732796
Not him, but why did it take years for TF2 to get dedicated competitive if the drive for it was there?
Doesnt that make TF2 just as much casual shit like Overwatch? Maybe I have terminal autism, but it seems to be like both of you are fags that play casual shit and can't accept it.

>>386721189
What dead?

>>386732796
>rocked jumping is high skill

Fucking lmao. How desperate are you? What comes next? Shooting a rocket at your opponent is high skill?
>Nothing impressive about landing headshots on enemy players who are moving at the speed of TF2's second slowest character.
Do you actually believe that? I guess since you never even touched OW yourself you would lmao.
>Already rebutted this one.
Sure you did.

Enjoy your dead game. Whatever helps you sleep at nigh. Go show me some more webm's of stupid gimmicks and people performing basic rocket or sticky jumps, I am sure they will impress me next time :^)

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>>386732324
>webm of a class with high mobility and low health that relies on evading enemy attacks to survive
>"people aren't hitting him, surely this can only be a sign that the scout's opponents lack skill, and not an indicator that the scout is doing his job properly by not getting hit"
Truly, you are a master b8er.

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>>386730206
>>386732118
>>386732824
Put up or shut up. Where's your video evidence?
Because right now you are getting roundly BTFO and the best comeback you have is: "gimmicks!"

>>386732881

Valve doesn't give a shit about TF2, thats why

The competitive community has been asking for ranked matching for YEARS, and when they finally implemented it, they did it completely wrong and fucked everything up.

There has been a competitive community in TF2 since beta

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>>386732824
>but then widow in OW can do the same thing and since she actually has mobility and can headshot people airborne her skill ceiling is even higher.

>no airborne penalties = more skill needed

Im sorry dude but you are seriously a retarded person. How do you figure that having to navigate less obstacles = more skill? You are fucking backwards, my friend.

>>386730727
I dunno why you're picking on McCree, he gets very little play time despite his apparent capability he's outclassed by Soldier 76 in every capacity. Soldier's ult is more troubling than McCree's is in any case being that he's mobile, possesses a self-heal if he needs to sandbag and also has massive burst damage with the helix rocket. Did I mention he sprints?

>>386732934
airshots in tf2 are easy as fuck anon the hitboxes are huge. its not really impressive especally when the targets are that close.

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>>386732881
No financial support from Valve and no advertising, it's that simple.
Community did it all themselves. We've had multiple competitive TF2 tournaments yearly since the 2007 release.
>Doesnt that make TF2 just as much casual shit like Overwatch
TF2 is the most skilled populated shooter on the market apart from Quake CPMA and maybe CS:GO.
Overwatch on the other hand has a lower skill ceiling than Call of Duty.
>>386732931
Yeah, pretty sure he's just baiting.
Whatever, everyone worth convincing already knows what's going on.

>>386732990
I didn't say competitive community, I said dedicated competitive. As in, the developers made a dedicated competitive mode.
I could give 3 shits about some autists shitting out a competitive format and banning weapons and restricting class choices because the game is balanced abysmally. I cared about what I asked about.
Basically what you're telling me is that TF2, from a development standpoint, has been casual shit since beta? Since the developers couldn't be fucked to add comp before last year?

>>386732895

I hope you realize tons of top overwatch players are ex-tf2 pros who only play the game for money

They constantly trash the game behind closed doors and would instantly jump ship if they could play tf2 for the same amount of money

TF2 should be thankful to overwatch for even being compared to it.

>>386732880
>junkrat will never move as fast as demo jumping, therefore making the shots easier
and makes getting killed easier, ever thought about risk/reward?

>his bombs will explode for full damage even if theyre rolling, so it isn't necessary for him to hit directs
they propagated less so its actually harder for him to hit something while he's airborne or moving, this gets compensated that if you hit something, you'll be hitting for full damage, therefore rewarding skill

>airstrafing and advanced movement mechanics don't exist in overwatch for most of the heros (especially the healers), so that medic wouldn't be able to react in a skillful way if he's bombed by a junkrat
no game needs that sort of mechanics to be competitive, that's just one way of doing things

>and any pick a junkrat can get by jumping in and 2 piping another hero will never be as meaningful as the pick that demo got because ults don't go away when you die. all dying means is you wait for the respawn and push again. the pick that demo go completely changed the outcome of that round
killing mercy first before engaging and comitting ults to a fight changes the outcome of that particular fight and capture point too, for example. 12 secs respawn + walking to the point means something.

if we are going to discuss ow againts other games, we should stop considering them in their own rulesets. as i said, "tf2 is less skillful because there is no ults to coordinate" is fucking awful for an answer, as is "look, demoman can fly and you need twitch reflexes to shoot people, thats why ow is less skillful than tf2"

what happened to /v/?

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>>386732934
>posts webms of people doing rocket jumps, sticky jumps and a scout getting missed by his opponents
>Because right now you are getting roundly BTFO

Lmao, but again whatever helps you sleep. I love how you are so bitter about OW's popularity that you have a bunch of webms about basic game mechanics saved

>>386733030
>widow can grapple hook onto a wall and shoot opponents while in midair which is extremely difficult because she has to adjust for her own movement and the enemy movement and tf2 sniper straight up can't even scope while midair
>somehow in the mind of the tf2fag this means that the sniper has a higher skill ceiling

I would say I am surprised but I am honestly not. You tf2fags are so bitter it's hilarious.

>>386720779
boring to watch, always the same characters, being a fps makes it hard to follow (either you're following one guy out of twelve, or watching everyone jump up and down while shooting like spastics)

>>386733109

Following your logic, Counter Strike and Quake were "casual shit" until they got ranked matchmaking. So I guess everything before CS:GO and QL were casual shit?

You have to realize that in 2007 (when tf2 was released), ranked MMR was a very rare thing and was in its very early stages. Although I'm sure you were around 10 years old in 2007 so you have no frame of reference for how things used to be before people used a number to quantify skill.

>>386733104
Player body hitboxes are large when it comes to projectiles, but projectile hitboxes themselves are small. A rocket's hitbox is so small that it can actually pass through a 10cm gap ingame. Landing directs in TF2 on a fast-moving target who can airstrafe and is not only moving left and right, but also up and down, with a relatively slowly moving projectile and having that kind of prediction is not easy.

Even if you think it's not impressive, there's little in the multiplayer FPS market that compares, and there's especially very little in Overwatch that comes anywhere near close. I'm out of webms

>>386721915
>>386731654
>>386732016
His complaints are from the point of a spectator
The community is absolutely growing, there's new blood all over the place, just not in top 8.

"There's no online scene to speak of"
It's literally easier for me to get a Melee match than a SFV match

>>386723586
because actually good western players dont give a shit about comp overwatch and are playing csgo instead

>>386732895
>Do you actually believe that?
Not him but it's a fact that 22/25 of OW's classes move at the speed of TF2's Soldier if you compare their km/h movement speeds...

>>386733109

>I WANTED AN ANSWER TO MY QUESTION WAAAA

>proceeds to respond directly to the answer to the question

so this is where autism comes from

>>386733261
>10 years old in 2007
don't be so generous, he easily could've been 8 in 2007
or even younger, underaged phone posters are everywhere

>>386733261
As far as I'm concerned, if a developer was too lazy/couldn't be fucked to add ranked to a game within a year of its initial release, it was intended to be casual all along.
This being said, I think i clocked in around 3000 hours of TF2 before I got bored, so maybe I like casual shit.

>>386733331
I didn't believe in the cancer of phoneposters until I looked over the shoulder of a 14 year old schoolboy and saw him posting on /pol/ from his phone.

>>386733104

I mean some airshots in TF2 are easy, but if you actually break down that webm you can see the scout made a mistake. He instantly used his double jump so his movement became predictable. He also didn't surf the damage of the first rocket.

It's almost like TF2 has a movement system that rewards skill and decision making, instead of press shift to teleport.

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>my dead game is better than your dead game

>>386733385
>As far as I'm concerned

Well good thing you have no clue what the fuck you're talking about, so thats a plus.

Got a pic with timestamp of that playtime? It wouldnt make you any more correct but Id be interested to see it.

>>386733385

I love how you just completely ignore my point. What games had ranked matchmaking in 2007? Seriously look it up. Most of them are third party sites and services that the COMMUNITY created because developers didn't support competitive games back then.

You have to be underage, there's no excuse for being this retarded.

>>386733443
>OW
>dead

lmao

Moving onto TF2 videos in case anyone still doubts the fact that TF2 has a higher skill ceiling than overshit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7jelqvvzxE
Demoman in TF2, capable of high mobility and high damage on projectile attacks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIeDWSqZIcw
His Overwatch equivalent, Junkrat, is nowhere near this conducive to skilled gameplay. He has a trap to hold enemies still so he can shoot them, he has a single mobility item which kills air momentum, and he has a tire which just explodes in a wide AoE. His high roller damage means that direct hits are not a necessity.

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>>386733331
>>386733314
I was born in 1992, so I'm sure I'd like to hear what your argument could be barring "Hurr le underage"
Also, I made it clear I was talking about dedicated competitive, not "competitive community" assfaggotry.
Niggers shouldn't be allowed to use computers.

>>386720903
> All iterations of thing are stupid except for the one iteration of thing that was popular in the scene when I was younger and the scene was just starting out, and that probably isn't even thing because if it was I would have to associate with thing and I don't want to do that

This whole board is hipsters and Reddit.

>>386733559
>3 hats deposited into your Steam inventory, open your client to accept incoming trade request.
>Thank you and have a productive day!

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>>386733385

>3k hours

LOL

>>386733559

Great taste in frag videos friend

>>386733614
Reddit isn't hipster. 4chan is.

>>386733523
I understand your point you fucking faggot, if it didn't have dedicated comp it's casual shit, even in 2007. Making, yes everything, released at that time casual shit.
Also, Reddit spacing hehe ecks dee

>>386733596

You do realize that "dedicated competitive" is just some random buzz phrase you made up to try and drive home your point, right? You failed, by the way.

>>386733669
Reddit is pretty hipster. 4chins is just politically incorrect hipster because everyone from Reddit comes here to get away from politically correct hipsters

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Class-based FPS games have always been casual first and competitive second, at least in comparison to other competitive FPS games. Overwatch sacrifices being a fun casual FPS in order to be a somewhat competitive (and incredibly boring) MOBA, but still has less depth than most actual MOBAs.

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>>386720779

>esports

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>>386733647
>implying Valve would pay people to shill when they don't even advertise their game
>implying TF2, a game which has been a part of /v/ culture since time immemorial, wouldn't have defenders pointing out the truth that it's good
It's 1000x more likely that there's a Blizz shill in this thread with the amount of money they spend on advertising Overwatch everywhere. Try and deny that.

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>>386733678
>Making, yes everything, released at that time casual shit.
>Also, Reddit spacing hehe ecks dee


Holy fuck I dont think Ive ever seen someone this desperate and trying so hard.

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>mfw i play overwatch for hats and don't give a care about my MUH ESPORT.

I don't know why, but I hate overwatch.
There's something that I just can't put my finger on that makes overwatch painful to play. I enjoyed the open beta, enjoyed playing it while it was out, but slowly that enjoyment dwindled into just bitterness, and I can't give a solid point as to why I don't like it.

>>386733443
but anon neither game is dead

>>386733904

> I enjoyed the open beta, enjoyed playing it while it was out, but slowly that enjoyment dwindled into just bitterness

Overwatch is the fast food of video games. It's looks great and it's super fun the first time you play it. But if you keep playing it eventually you see how shallow and unfulfilling it is and crave something with actual depth.

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https://youtu.be/jamuLPfQibU?t=28
Best of TF2's second best competitive division.

>>386733842
>mfw i initially did the same not really caring about being competitive but the underlying game is so boring and so bad if you're not going in with a group that i gave up on it

>>386734026

are you subtlety calling euros bad

because they are

>>386733904
For me it's the fact that you're not gonna do shit by yourself in that game, it's more of a moba where you have to rely on your team then it is a shooter. If you play any other shooter you can usually go off on your own and do pretty well but in overwatch you've got shit like reinhardts shield and shit that slows the match pace down to a crawl and makes it so that you can't really do anything by yourself.

>South Korea dominating
well it will be pretty easy if you are all playing with internet cafe hacks

>>386733904
Its a shallow, streamlined, lowest common denominator, checklist game. It's by Blizzard so its popular, its popular so people play it. It's "the" game to play. But a lot of people realize its not good but dont want to quit because all their friends are playing it or they feel they must because its so "popular".

>>386733904
>I don't know why, but I hate overwatch.
>There's something that I just can't put my finger on that makes overwatch painful to play. I enjoyed the open beta, enjoyed playing it while it was out, but slowly that enjoyment dwindled into just bitterness, and I can't give a solid point as to why I don't like it.

I can. It feels derivative to me. I played a lot of TF2 since it released, but hadnt played for years by the time OW came out. For me personally, I never enjoyed OW. I bought it because I have friends who play it, and thats the only reason I ever play it. I do well in the game, but I feel nothing, because I hate everything about it. The characters are stupid, the art design is shit and all over the place. The design of the game is fucking lazy as shit. I mean, they can't even be fucked to put decals on the walls when you shoot at them. I know this is a tiny gripe, but for me every little piece of a game matters, and that just screams lazy piece of shit developer, along with pretty much every other derivative aspect of the game, which is every aspect.

Say what you will about it now, but TF2s initial design, from art direction (which had a purpose) to gameplay was fucking locked down. They didn't have many characters, and they havent added a single one. They gave you these entirely different, but fairly basic characters, and it provided this really pure experience.

Its hard to nail down this kind of stuff. OW to me feels like a bargain bin game, through and though. I would bet every cent and piece of property I have that if Overwatch was not made by Blizzard, the company with the single most successful and popular game on this planet, it would have been left in obscurity.

>>386733985

just realized that OW and BOTW have the same problem

>>386729183
>Clockwork

He's still playing Overwatch, and judging by his streams he still fucking hates it.

>>386733904
>>386733985
I think it's not even a specific thing but a culmination of a bunch of nags I have.
Lack of advanced movement (but lucio! no. one beta support hero who has the most boring kit in the game having advanced movement does not excuse the rest of the cast of having extremely limited mobility)
Slow restrictive movement in general. For all the issues source has, movement is definitely not one of them. Movement in any source game is incredibly crisp and is inherently complex due to its interesting quirks.
Heavy focus on chokepoint ult bait gameplay.
Lack of ult-free big plays, or the idea that the tide can't be turned at any time
>>386734120
Shields. That's a big one. Shields. I fucking hate shields. Anything that stops you from hurting someone, really. defense matrix, shields, ice block, etc. Pain in the ass. Uber gets a free pass because you can both juggle uber'd opponents, and also you can stop ubers from happening by making a neat (no ult required!) play via bombing or picking the med.
No 5CP. Man, I love me some 5CP.
Weak DM in general. There's not a specific point I have to demonstrate weak DM, it's just... weak. Not fun.
Tanks. Fuck tanks.

There's probably more nags, but that list is pretty long anyways.
I wish valve wasn't autistic.

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>>386733206
I await the day making such braindead uneducated posts using anime images is an instant public ban. It absolutely amazes me just how far people will go to be this fucking stupid unironically and have the nerve to use an anime image - which makes people like me who aren't this fucking stupid and use anime images look retarded.

>>386734346
Yep, he's in it for the money.

>>386733030
>How do you figure that having to navigate less obstacles = more skill? You are fucking backwards, my friend.

Lmao are you fucking retarded dude? By the same logic taking away soldiers rocket jump would "increase the skill"? What the fuck dude?

I don't care about the tf2 vs OW argument but more mobility especially vertical mobility is always better and more skillful than being a sitting duck on the ground you fucking moron.

>>386734615
New banner

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>>386734201
It boggles my mind from all of these Overwatch haters having so much hatred for a game. Usually I get people who will usually just normally say, "I don't really like it, not really fun."

But majority of you guys go downright crazy about it. Immense hatred.

What caused you to hate it so much? Did you keep losing to a normie who was better than you? Did someone hurt your feelings? It's irrational to have anyone say all this outlandish shit without any evidence as to why Overwatch sucks.

You guys are too emotional over an easy normie game.

>>386734615
>tf2fags post webms of people doing basic rocket and sticky jumps
>tf2fags get called out
>now tf2fags throw a tantrum

Every time.

>>386734710
>implying one axis is more safe than the other
verticality without any direction control does make you an easier target.

>>386734790
>What caused you to hate it so much?

It is more popular than the shitty game that they like.

>>386734615
>I await the day making such braindead uneducated posts using anime images is an instant public ban

God forbid you're not browsing on a weeb message board catered to anime culture.

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>>386734803
>basic rocket jumps and sticky jumps
Put effort into your shitposts, you subhuman

>>386734790

FPS is dead because of games like overwatch

>>386720779
I think it's garbage, it's even more boring than playing the game itself. And believe me I've tried to like it

>>386734790
>hate
I dont hate shit games anon. I loathe scummy games, but games like OW just make me sad for the genre.
>why Overwatch sucks.
ults,auto-aim being an actual skill on one character. Blizzards hitboxes, lack of attention to detail, content droughts. Want me to continue?

People who shit talk a game dont always do it in blind anger.

>Overwatch Helps Push Activision Blizzard to Over 400 Million Monthly Active Users

>Blizzard had the biggest quarterly online player community in its history with a record 46 million MAUs, up 38% year‐over‐year. The Overwatch community continued to grow more than a year after launch, setting another all‐time MAU record with the release of two seasonal events in the quarter. Hearthstone® MAUs grew year‐over‐year and quarter‐over‐quarter to an all‐time record, driven by its expansion, Journey to Un’Goro™.

https://pvplive.net/c/overwatch-push-activision-blizzard-400-million-mau

Overwatch will never go away. Keep crying you stupid nerds.

>>386720779
I don't think of esports

>>386734595
The big difference between uber and the many bullshit abilities that make it so you can't hurt your enemy is that in OW it's an ability you can pop at any time and come back in seconds, in tf2 the uber is a big deal the medic charges for a while and can lose all progress on if he gets killed. I can't tell you how many times i was about to kill a reaper or mei in OW only for them to pop their invulnerability ability and either go get a health pack while i can't damage him or heal up in the ice block and then pop a wall between us when she comes out. It's this kind of shit and the amount of moves that take away player controls that make the game annoying to play more than anything.

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>>386734201
>But a lot of people realize its not good but dont want to quit because all their friends are playing it or they feel they must because its so "popular".

Right everyone hates playing it but they keep playing because all their friends who hate playing it also play it despite, you know, hating it. And instead of them just moving on to another game that they actually enjoy so they can play with their friends without hating the game they play, they keep playing this game they hate, because you know, it's Blizzard, and everyone HAS to play Blizzard games even if they hate them.
Nevermind how the game got popular in the first place. You would think if people hate OW so much and only play it because they have to and their friends are playing it, they would not have moved to playing it to begin with in 2016 and rather kept playing the game they played before. But I bet there is some dumb excuse you have to rationalize this too.

The amount of bitterness you have to feel to come up with bullshit like that is staggering. Really, what mental gymnastics do you have to perform to reach the conclusion that 25 million people bought a game they hate and then kept playing it? This is fucking hilarious.

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>>386735051
.. But you think of competitive gaming and just having fun.

>>386734880
Yeah I bet it takes 10000 of hours before you could even dream of performing those super high skill rocket jumps like in >>386732796 kek

>>386735194
It's past your bedtime sweetie, you can shitpost tomorrow after school

>>386735094
>Nevermind how the game got popular in the first place.
because it was a new and colorful blizzard game, nothing more.
Are you really doubting people wouldnt quit playing something because they dont want to be left out of a group? It happens all the time, I even know some personally who begrudgingly admit it.

>bitterness
Can you people stop assuming emotions?

>>386726906
my ears

>>386732796
>In Overwatch, dodging mechanisms are gated behind cooldowns

No it's not. Dodging is gated behind working together and cooldowns pressures the player to precisely judge when to use it. If there was no cooldowns you'd spam your abilities like fucking faggots.

>>386734946
It says that mobile games were a big chunk of that, actually.
Blizzard still won't release concurrent playercount.

>>386734790
Because overwatch will be the standard, and probably the face of first person """shooters""" for quite a while, ruining an entire genre for most because devs must appeal to retard 5 year olds to make the game blizzard branded Fun! (tm)

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>>386735362
>Dodging is gated behind working together

>>386734595
And one last thing is that overwatch is just too PG. The lack of blood and bits makes killing so much less inherently satisfying.
The superficial saturday morning cartoon character design also bothers me. You can read the entirety of a character by just looking at them, with some minor exceptions. And these characters are always a flavor of saturday morning cartoon good guy or saturday morning cartoon villain.

I also sincerely dislike the moba hero approach, where you have similar heroes that do similar things but with slightly different ways of doing it. It's entirely personal preference, but I much prefer the boiled down approach of 9 distinct classes with 9 distinct play styles (such that every single one feels entirely unique to play) with unlocks to offer different angles of play (that usually fall in line with a class's overarching design, exceptions being things like demoknight)
speaking of demoknight, no dedicated melee (and equal melee damage for all heroes) or melee heroes

>>386735478
pretty much /thread here

>>386720779

LOL

I think its shit and pretty boring as an esport
Its the same team taking turns to do the same thing.
Cleaning floors has a high skill cap according to Canada, Still doesn't make it that difficult.

literally unwatchable because of visual overload

imagine someone not knowing the game trying to understand what's going on

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>>386733283

>It's literally easier for me to get a Melee match than a SFV match

Absolute bullshit. First of all Melee has no match making system, second of all I play SF5 on PC of all platforms and my matches are quick.
Unless you mean:

>Im GM in overwatch and i can't find matches quickly with a 6 man party 5:23am tuesday night

At which point I direct you to:

>Melee has no match making.

>>386721449

Is this what happens in all the other evo fighting games? Is it just 5 people winning everything every time, why bother watching evo if its the same 5 people?

>>386720779
It's a completely failed esport due to blizzard's incompetence with handling this shit.
A ton of teams have completely quit the game. The best player in the world can barely survive, sleeping in someone else's apartment etc.

>>386720779
As good as hearthstone

>>386720779
I like watching pathetic neets trying to justify their existence by calling the game they play an esport, it's a game not a sport just like chess or darts and the people competing aren't athletes just skilled players people just accept this

>>386738612
>The best player in the world can barely survive, sleeping in someone else's apartment etc.
elaborate pls

>>386733559
man i wish i lived somewhere i could get a decent ping and was a bit older when comp tf2 was at its "height". it was always my favourite electronic athleticism and those grassroots lans in the uk looked comfy af

>>386738867
He's the best, or at least one of the VERY best, and he doesn't make enough money to have a stable living situation.

>>386739045
i get that, i meant who's he, where is he living, etc.

>>386739141
>who's he
the best OW player

>where is he living
in someone else's apartment

>>386738612
i was watching mendokusaii's stream the other day and he was going off about how little fun he has with the game, and it looked like actually hating it, not just the typical "haHAA i hate this game :^)" most esports players do

imagine playing this at the highest competitive level. with csgo you have an infinite skill ceiling to reach with aim and reactions, and the strats are tactical and they actually look intelectually stimulant (the nades setup, working out how to spend money between rounds, although some people have argued that the money meta is solved already etc)

overwatch is just about "yeah lets just pick the same 6-8 heroes everytime, replace tanks from time to time, and just spam the choke better and use cooldowns better"

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there's nothing wrong with playing games competitively but the E-sport scene is a fucking joke. Everyone smells bad, is either 100 pounds over or underweight, or is an autistic asian.

I love Overwatch, I play it almost every day, but I've barely touched competitive and would consider it a poor game for anything other than playing for fun. The viable roster at a high level is far too limited in my opinion, and executional requirement is low. I think it's the perfect casual shooter to have fun in. The complete reliance on teammates makes it hard to take any loss personally, and equally difficult to consistently do well. The result is a wildly varying perceived difficulty, but most of it is down to your team's strategy and not your personal skill level.

>>386739458
whoa, i get it now
thanks anon

the only reason why koreans are "dominating" is because everyone else has moved onto CSGO already because it has 10x the prize pool and 10x the viewers
koreans don't even have LoL or DOTA anymore, they get dominated by the chinese now

>>386740207
koreans dont have teams in dota but explain the lol part

>>386740207
>koreans don't even have LoL or DOTA anymore, they get dominated by the chinese now
dont talk about shit you dont know anything about

koreans were never into dota, there was a rare unicorn korean team that was formed mostly of some koreans that used to live in the us and discovered dota there, some of them are now in international teams. but Korea as a whole couldn't give a shit about dota, valve fucked up promotion and it died fast, it couldnt even crack the top 25 games played in cybercafes there

and lol worlds will be won again by a korean team. fuck, the same one has won most of the world championships already.