What is it about crowd sourcing that results in delayed mess of games?

>>386609156
Publishers exist for a reason. Go figure.

>>386609156
When you get a ton of money up front there's significantly less motivation to complete the project compared to knowing you won't get paid at all if you don't make a product.

>>386609156
Videogame creators are artists and coders, not businessmen or project leading experts. So, when there aren't businessmen or actual leaders running the projects everything goes to shit.

>>386609156
No deadlines.

>Make this game in 6 months or you're fired
may result in shitty AAA games, but they do come out on time.

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$100 every month for 12 months is more than $150 every month for 6 months.
When you delay development while you're still getting paid you end up with more money overall and less workload.
There's a reason you don't pay for something before you receive it. The incentive to create evaporates when the reason to create it in the first place is already met.

>>386609156


>rush tshirt

of course

back to /mu/

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>>386609678
>but they do come out on time.
Good joke. If anything AAA comes out when it was announced more than a year before it's always a dumpster fire of bugs and balance issues.

>>386609156
someone shop meme hair and red eyes on him

>>386609853
Today's Tom Sawyer...

>>386609905
But it was on time.

>Zero accountability
>No oversight
>People with no management experience
>Unrealistic goals and expectations
>Developer hubris
>Uncontrolled spending of funds
>Failing to deliver has almost no actual negative consequences

Publishers might be assholes, but they exist for a reason.

We'll see who laughs last.

>>386609964
You missed the implication. IF it comes out on time. It's either timely or polished. Never both. Not in the past 10 years.

>>386609942

he seems more of a "free will" type, honestly.

today's tom sawyer wouldn't drop 30k on this

>>386609529
Second post. Not having a draconian publisher breathing down your neck or hell, just doing it for the fun of it significantly decreases the motivation to actually do it because there is no incentive to get it finished in a timely manner. You are already getting paid for your work up front. That's why i think Kickstarter should work on a half then, half when you're done system.

Seriously, just look at how many Western porn artists who previously produced comics and pictures of fairly high quality slow to a dripfeed and drop in quality. Here's a game for you: Go on e-hentai right now, search for Western comics and check how many (Progress) ones are backed by Patreon. You point this out to them as well and the mouthbreathers jump on that downvote button like nothing else because of the cult of personality tied to certain artists. Not only are artists becoming lazier and more self-entitled people are actively encouraging it, and it has created an entire generation of lazy, unmotivated and uninspired creators. When they beg for more money it's far worse. You can only take from people so many times.

>>386610038
publishers dont ensure funding gets put to good use. In fact most of the budget is wasted on marketing and devs have to work with scraps

>>386609156
Crowdfunding makes customers disappear in the eyes of the people working on the game. They have your money, they no longer see you as someone they have to deliver a product to.

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>>386610038
>>Unrealistic goals and expectations
>>Developer hubris

This seems to be Inafune's problem with MN9.

>>Failing to deliver has almost no actual negative consequences

That's wrong. Inafune's rep is ruined, and people call him a con man now. Did you see his face during the Launch stream? Looked like he was gonna cry. I've never seen a developer be so defeated.

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>Many of our favorite videogames got developed inside a reasonable framework, finished and released on a timely manner thanks to some tie-wearing guy screaming to the development teams: "this is your budget and this is your deadline. Don't like it? you can fuck yourself and go back to coding animated gifs for Angelfire webpages"

Truly the unsung heroes of the industry

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>>386610253
/dgg/ and /weg/ suffer from this in a BAD way. /hgg/ is still mostly Japanese though so it's largely unaffected by crowdfunding.

It starts off well, with the best of intentions, but as soon as an adequate amount of money starts entering the equation it seems like it just chokes creativity and desire to produce. One would THINK that it would allow these artists and programmers more freedom to spend more time on the project because that's what they state and claim it would do, but it does the exact opposite.

>>386610478
Boo hoo. He deserved worse than some light public humiliation.

>>386609156
so we're not questioning why he threw 30 grand on a meme game?

>>386610506
Now if only they would devote the budget to the actual gameplay and not marketing we'd be able to crawl out of the doldrums of trash and at least get back to the bronze age.

>>386609853
Fuck you Rush is amazing

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>>386609549
>this is what project managers actually believe
it couldn't just be >>386609529, that would be too simple.

>>386610690
Grandpa? Is that you? On 4chan?

>>386609156
>disgusting physique
>Rush fan

Not surprised.

Crowd sourcing for video games was a mistake. Time and time again it fails more often than it succeeds.

>>386610885
>>386611105
>>386609853
Why does the very concept of an old band or even a band that has proper instruments in it trigger /mu/ so? Why do they proclaim themselves paragons of good taste yet hail Kanye and any nigger with a mixtape as musical geniuses?

>>386610880
Featurecreep happens without "managers" in video games. Freelancer, Star Citizen, MN9, etc.

>>386610880
While the majority of "project managers" I've worked with have been nothing but e-mail sending monkeys, some of the projects I've worked on that advanced the best and actually finished on time had actual talented project managers. Budget, priorities, deadlines, scheduling, those aren't things everyone can plan.
That doesn't mean that the other dude isn't right.

>>386611338
Nice strawman. Rush is garbage. Overplayed, overrated, garbage. And that fucking vocalist is horrid.

>>386611512
What music do you like, anon?

Why is /v/ so opposed to having individuals leading things like videogame projects? I find weird given how this place worships fascism.

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>>386611512

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I can understand (to some extent) why SC would be delayed again and again.

But pic related is a single player game. How the fuck has not been released yet? Isnt this supposed to be separate to the MMO?

>>386611593
Don't get me wrong, I like the genre that Rush mostly adheres to, but I just fucking hate Rush, man. I hate Pink Floyd as well. Genesis and Supertramp are two comparable bands that I love.

>>386611627
Fascism is left wing so it makes since that they hate people spending money however they want.

>>386611627
Because it's been proven time and again that if you give these idiots your money with no consequences they will pocket it, 9 times out of 10. You need someone to ensure that they do their job properly. You don't base this shit on trust because time and again they've broken it. For example this burger I went to had fucking sharp knives on the table for anyone to just pick up and stab themselves or anyone else with, and they served alcohol. I asked a waitress about this and she said "we like to think we trust our customers with this". No. Never trust people or leave them to their own devices. I'm the same. If I don't have someone poking a rod up my arse or the imminent threat of failure I can't get motivated.

>>386609156
because games made with publisher backing have experienced people making them while kickstarter games are mostly made by people learning unity
no amount of money will ever make up for your lack of knowledge and experience, if most of the team has never worked on a successsful game before then its doomed from the start, the amount of inexperienced people should never be above 10%

>>386610478
the problem with MN9 is that he promised people that they where kickstarting the game when in reality that money went to starting his own studio

>>386609156
It's a reversal of the usual business dynamics that give the party with the deliverable product (e.g, a game) too much power.

Usually an investor will tie certain funding amounts to project milestones which incentivize actually getting the thing out the door - for example, you need to have x milestone compelted before the next tier of funding comes is released. If you continually fuck up then the entire project can be canned and you could potentially be sued for breach of contract.

With crowdfunding it's "give us enough money to implement x feature" but with no oversight or actual pressure to deliver on that because they already have your money and you have no legal rights over the product or ability to pressure the developer except to angrily shitpost on the internet.

So, how do we fix crowdfunding?

Don't say "by killing it" because we shouldn't; crowdfunding is still a powerful tool that allows certain projects to see the light without depending on a publisher.

>>386613221
Probably extend consumer laws to include the gaming industry as well.

>>386613221
maybe have the crowdfunding site act like a publisher that makes sure the project meets its milestones?
but that would require the site to have some specialized knowledge about every project being made.

>>386613221
1. People choosing to invest their money must do so with a completely cynical eye and not get carried away by bullshots or pie in the sky promises about how awesome this game is going to be. Unfortunately this would require your average pleb to understand the game development process in at least a very basic manner, but they should at least go by the rule of "if it's too good to be true it probably is". Look at the scale and scope of the project in question, as well as the track record (if any) of the developers.

2. Developers must commit to absolute transparency and treat the people who give them money like they would a more traditional investor. Things like stretch goals should be considered very carefully and if at all possible avoid trying to scope or feature creep the intended product too much because this inevitably increases overall development time. Ideally platforms like Kickstarter would have some mechanism for being able to reclaim funds from obvious scammers or complete incompetents but this is obviously very tricky legally and would require a majority consensus of everybody who contributed money which would be very difficult if not impossible.

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>>386610038
This would ring true, if it were the 90s again. The real honest problem is that no one has the incentive to make good shit because everyone accepts trash, bugs and delayed garbage. Delays are fine, but when you still get shit, that should be a no buy.

>>386611512
Your taste is shit

>>386613885
Why don't kickstarter devs try making it so that basic/normal game features are made as stretch goals? It sounds kind of shitty and most smarter gamers would know what's going on, but the average plebs that accept kickstarter in the first place wouldn't be able to tell the difference and that might prevent the whole feature creep issue since you're still making very basic stuff but selling it as a slew of "possible features". And even if some of the goals don't get reached, put them in anyways, since they were basic game features. It makes them look better and also feeds that unfortunate need for excessive stretch goals that make these games able to build the money necessary for development.

>>386609156
WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT HIS COMPANY