Is this game seriously just a bunch of line puzzles?

Yes and a bunch of walking. It also has some pretentious quotes from various famous people thrown in. Some of the puzzles are pretty fun. Others not so much.

>>386562631
its a bunch of different types of puzzles where you use the line panels to input the solution
in a way its also a metroidvania

>>386563308
I think it's more like Dark Souls.

>>386563398
>>386563308
It's more like a strategy game fagets.

>>386562631
It's a puzzle game, so yes

>>386562631
Yeah, but it's pretty nice and chil one at that. And environmental puzzles are fucking great.

>>386563125
reminder that Jblow literally payed 30k for that shit.

Talos Principle did absolutely everything better.

>>386563768
nah

>>386562631
Reminder that Jon Blow has a lower iq than you.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdx9Sd1JxI

>>386564164
>environment
>story
>graphics
>controls
>art in general
>audio

>puzzles and mechanics were actually taught in a concise way
>puzzles were wildly more interesting instead of just basic logic trial and error
>didnt rely on a gimmick

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>>386562631
THI S IS NOT A MERE GAME , IT'S A WORK OF ART

I enjoyed it. Exploring the island was fun and they mix up how the puzzles work and mix and match mechanics as you go which proves to be very interesting.

My one major problem with the game is HOLY SHIT this is the most pretentious game ever made. Remember that time they have you watch TEN FUCKIN MINUTES of Nostalgia's ending with no context? Remember how you go through all that just to do 1 line puzzle near the end of the video? 10 minutes of watching a guy with a lighter walk back and forth, no context. Just the maker waving his dick saying "I love Tarkovsky films! They sure are ART!"

>>386563768
It did all the philosophical stuff miles better, but Witness has god tier exploration and a beautiful world. Also its puzzles are harder and it really nailed this sense of eureka after you've finally figured something out. And environmental puzzles were a great idea.

>>386563125
>It also has some pretentious quotes from various famous people thrown in
Too bad that the rest of your post was actually on point. I don't get why people can call the quotes "pretentious", in that case you should call philosophy as a whole pretentious. Also, it's explained with the true ending, or at least the logs you find on your way to the true ending. There's actually a reason why they use those quotes, but people prefer to overlook it, that or they just never got past the first ending.
>in b4 t. J. Blow

It's like Myst but actually fun. So yeah, walking on a mystical island with puzzles.

Some people will say it's pretentious, I say shit like this is badass:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JvdAHmudW8

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>>386562631
Pretty much. I mean yeah there's different ways that you can use the line but in the end, you're still making lines.

>>386564457
>environment
no
>story
yes
>graphics
maybe on the technical side
>controls
are the same, unless you are talking about the faster sprint
>art in general
no
>audio
talos has a soundtrack, otherwise the same

>puzzles and mechanics were actually taught in a concise way
both game do that, the witness does it without explanations though
>puzzles were wildly more interesting instead of just basic logic trial and error
I disagree, it was quite impressive what the witness managed to do with combining various rules. The basic trial and error are only a few ouzzles in each area where you learn the rules
>didnt rely on a gimmick
what gimmick

>>386562631
Roughly half of the puzzles are self-contained, by which I mean the other half can only be solved using visual cues hidden in the puzzle's immediate surroundings. Additionally, all of the puzzles use a set of symbols, each of which indicates how lines should be constructed (ex: a tetromino means that the line should be drawn around that block and ones immediately around it in a way that it resembles the tetromino).

TL;DR half filler puzzles, half pretty good puzzles

>>386564550
Pretty much this. Talos Principle is prime example of how you should make a game witch is supposed to be "something more" and touch in philosophical stuff. I generally enjoyed Witness much better, but its delusions of pretending its deeper than it actually is were pathetic. Especially the movies, the audiologs honestly weren't that bad, some of the quotes were actually pretty good and the devs admitted themselves in the hidden area that some of them were shitty and heavyhanded.

Even if you loathe the game you gotta admit that some of the perspective puzzles, like seeing the solution inside branches or cliffs at a certain angle, are pure genius.

>>386565112
>>art in general
>no
>>environment
>no

One was literally the lowest form of 3d art and the other on the side of the pinnacle. How can people have such shit opinions. Oh right, cause im talking to jonathan

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These flashing color puzzles are eye cancer.

>>386565426
Not him, but environments in TTP are uninspired and bland, maybe except for the hidden areas. There is nothing good about ruins. And some of the textures tire my eyes, but that's probably only mine problem. You might not like Witness' artstyle, but its design is miles better no contest.

>>386565663
>but its design is miles better no contest.
I just dont see how desu.

>>386565530
Shit, I hated those. I was actually making screenshots in right moments to make it easier.

>>386562631
It is interesting from the standpoint that it teaches you how to solve the puzzles without ever explicitly giving a tutorial or using words. There are eureka moments to be had, but I felt that it became fairly monotonous near the end. Near the end lots of puzzles are centered around making it difficult to see the grid rather than introducing interesting new mechanics so I got out graph paper and drew the grid every time, which was tedious. The game also gives you the impression that there is an underlying mystery to the island, and there is, but it's not terribly interesting or meaningful. I liked it fine, but I wish I hadn't paid $40.

>>386565530
thanks doc

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>>386564898
>in that case you should call philosophy as a whole pretentious
I think anon is actually doing it

>>386562631
Do the enviroment puzzles/spoiler] actually do anything when you solve them all?
from what ive seen they dont
but it seem ridiculous to me that half of the puzzles (that were supposed to be the mindblowing part of the game) do absolutely nothing(except lighting up the totems and lake)

The Witness makes me feel really smart when I solve a puzzle, more so than other puzzle games.

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I keep putting the game down and picking it back up every couple of months. Every time I pick it back up I've forgotten a few of the symbol meanings.

>>386566342
It's supposed to be all about the experience :^)
I honestly like it that way though, but yeah, I guess you could expect something better.

>>386566342
No. The only thing they do is light up on the obelisks and add to the counter on your savefile. There's the sun one for the extra ending but that's obvious

>>386562631
It's relaxing and playable until you get stuck on a puzzle

>>386565284
Talos Principle definitely does a better job with the narrative angle - it has a much more interesting setting, more is going on under the surface, and its presentation of its depth is less hamfisted. I would criticize TP, however, for lacking polish in the gampley department. There are some solutions that feel like you're making the game engine do something it wasn't meant to do - for instance I solved some laser puzzles by repeatedly putting the same laser down until it suddenly didn't intersect with another one, and it felt like brute force

>>386566745
>and it felt like brute force
thats more of a bug m8

>>386565284
Shit, I've just noticed how I had butchered this post grammatically. I really should rest a bit longer after work before I start posting.

Now is there anybody got a sweet little woman like mine?
Got to be somebody, got a, got a sweet little woman like mine!

I really liked the philosophical quotes. They were nice background chatter while i solved the puzzles and explored the island. They gave me something a little different to think about in between thinking about all the puzzles. The game doesn't really have story except for the cave area and I think that's fine.

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>>386567084
Honestly though, I've started to actually notice such patterns in real world after I've completed The Witness

Yep.

>>386567264
Humans love symmetry and lines, its not a new concept.

>>386562631
Is mario seriously just a bunch of jumping?

>>386565284
>devs admitted themselves in the hidden area that some of them were shitty and heavyhanded
That's actually part of the game backstory, not dev commentary. In short: a group of scientists created the island, a virtual reality program, as part of a government initiative to turn people into "better" human beings. IIRC the program begins trapping test subjects in the virtual reality, and you're supposed to be one of those subjects.

>>386567405
I mean more like in nature and accidental layouts of items, not things intentionally designed this way.

>>386567084
I was awful at spotting those. After I had activated all the lasers and entered the mountain I had only found like 10 or 15 of them.

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>>386564547

>>386567543
Oh well yeah, thats why i firmly believe humans were made by a much older species. Evolution by nature ha s no need for AES, but yet its everywhere in nature.

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>>386567471

>>386567446
Yeah, but if the characters that devs written and created(and which are pretty much their analogues) say so, it's pretty much the same as them acknowledging it.

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>>386562631

These pictures are driving me nuts

>>386568152
literally all of them have been man-made

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>>386562631
>>386563398
Underageb& like you haven't played one of the originals of this genre.

>>386568216
This one>>386567945 was accidental though

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>>386567264
>Play The Witness for a few weeks
>Start seeing environmental puzzles in the real world
>Play Puzzle and Dragons
>Pattern on the seats opposite me on this train makes me want to make orb combos
I'm sharpening my knife, kupo

>>386562631
I came in very skeptical because it was quite the meme at that point that this was "Jon's Blow postmodern masterpiece" but what it is is just a puzzle game.

It has no story, there is some audiologs that tell you nothing, there is some unlockable videos or some shit that tell you nothing.

What it is, is just a puzzle game. A very slow, comfy and good looking puzzle game. At first it looks a simple kind of puzzle game, looks like it could get repetitive fast but it has a ton of nice twists to it and, at least to me, it kept me nicely engaged until I finished them all.
Very good puzzle game. Grab it for 15 bucks or less.

>>386568308
you mean a bad shop

>>386568101
What's this?

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>>386567942
fixed
>>386568240
You say that as if The Witness isn't a shitbag of tragically unrealized potential that completely misunderstood the "dna" of the Myst series

Post your feel when this starts playing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrIYT-MrVaI
Honestly, this was quite and ingenious idea to use this piece. How it goes faster and more intense as you're running out of time, start panicking and can't focus for shit.

>>386568735
wheres the puzzle jon?

>>386563668
>payed

>>386568637
I just can't complete the column puzzles at the end

The Witness has some genuinely clever environmental puzzles, and a lot of really poorly designed panel puzzles. It also looks pretty good.
But, it's frustrating as all hell because there are rules that show up that are never explained to you or hinted at properly. The meta-narrative theme about perspective isn't very interesting either and all you get for 100%ing the game is a short live action cutscene and then you get to start from the beginning again.

It's actually a great game, it doesn't try to shove philosophy in your phase nearly as much as people say, best played blind, and remember you are only limited by your knowledge at any point In the game, so while it has Metroid Vania like aspects, you can technically figure out things the game hasn't taught you yet.

Recommend 8.5/10

>>386567084
After playing the game, shit like this is everywhere.

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>>386562631
Yes, meanwhile almost nobody hear about the good puzzle games.

The guy that made the Witness didn't like this one, it was too hard for him because it wasn't linear enough. I bet he never played any Myst game.

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I prefer more engaging puzzle games.

>>386569359
Jonny boy has awful taste in vidya, his "pinnacle" platformer is 1000 spikes

>>386569141
>But, it's frustrating as all hell because there are rules that show up that are never explained to you or hinted at properly.

categorically wrong. learn to learn properly

>>386568637
I saw on reddit that grieg wrote this ironically

>>386569359
Thanks for recommendation anon, I'm looking for good puzzle games to play after I'll finish with Talos Principle.

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>All these puzzles are flashing and irritating as fuck
>Last one doesn't have any flashing and the solution is clear as day
What gives?

>>386569475
Wrong. He just found a lot to say in 1000 spikes, so he used it as an excuse to make money for a lecture.

>>386569601
>Sound puzzles

>>386569810
>be deaf
>can't be the game

>>386569810
are you tone deaf? Must be shit to be born with disabilities.

>>386569707
He put a lot of emphasis on getting across how much he loves it and at one point says in so many words its "his favorite game level" or something. Which i dont get because it and the game were just a generic stop & go platformer.

>>386569810
those were the easiest though

>>386564898
I would call the game pretentious. Yes, there is a message but brevity is something that is also taken into account when explaining philosophy. You could write a 200 fucking page dissertation as to why farting is humorous but it would be pretentious because it could be summed up in considerably fewer pages

The Witness's message takes fucking forever to really show itself and it could have been done quicker and cleaner. It's pretentious not because the message is edgy or whatever, but because it takes SOOOOOO LONG.

>>386569141
I thought perspective was incredibly interesting.

>>386569887
>>386569892
No. But the game never explains, or even hints at, what in the sounds we're supposed to be listening to.
Pitch? Volume? Interval?
>Just experiment!
Takes literal hours to brute force some of these.

>>386564898
Philosophy is based around trying to come up with solutions to serious problems without any kind of hard evidence, only "reason" .

pretentious
prJˈtɛnʃəs
adjective
attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed.

I think you could call philosophy pretentious based on this definition.

>>386567084
The line's end isn't curved. Need another angle.

>>386570069
I'm not sure what to tell you other than you are kind of dumb. The pattern in the sound was obvious.

>>386570069
it's obvious the first time you hear it. The volume and interval stays constant so of course it's the pitch.

>>386570112
>Philosophy is based around trying to come up with solutions to serious problems without any kind of hard evidence, only "reason" .


Literally everything in this sentence is wrong. How about you at least google the definition before you attempt saying anything about it?

>>386569687
Something along the lines of "Sorry we put you through that. Have an easy one."
The puzzle on the other side tho.

>>386570206
>It was obvious
But, it wasn't. You didn't even answer my question, so maybe you didn't understand it either?

>>386564898
>you should call philosophy as a whole pretentious
You've discovered the secret of the current generation. Do you seriously think you could show ANY philosophy material to /v/ and they wouldn't call it "pretentious"? Especially in a video game context. Video games MUST NOT contain anything but raw gameplay, or else they're SJW shit, or pretentious shit, or "fun is a buzzword", etc etc.

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>>386562631
>people paid $40 for a dollar store puzzle book

>>386570069
The ones in the jungle were mostly fine. There is one that's fucked that Blow even admitted is fucked, I think it's the second to last one, but otherwise they are perfectly fine. The one in the boat is dumb as fuck though, you know it's a bad puzzle when you still don't understand how it's supposed to work even after you finally see the proper solution through brute forcing.

>>386570295
How do you know where a sequence starts and one ends?

>>386564898
The use of the quotes is pretentious. The pretense is their experience is relevant or even worthy of the quote, the reality is that the quotes are being used as a crutch to add missing value and purpose to the game.

>>386570427
There is always a longer pause before they repeat.

>>386564547
Weren't these fake and the real ones somewhere off in a basement in Britain?

>>386570342
Yes it was. Off the top of my head I remember the very first puzzle was a bird tweet that had a high pitch and a low pitch. The line puzzle was two circles where you could either go high or low. The sound went high, then low. This tells you immediately you have to draw the line based on pitch.

> You didn't even answer my question
>Pitch? Volume? Interval?

Obviously pitch. There are no differences in the volume or intervals that would form a pattern.

>>386563768
Both are shitty "2deep4me" plus puzzles games, get the fuck out.

>>386570427
There is significant pause in between sequences. You walk up to a panel, the sequence plays then it stops and then a few seconds later it plays again.

>>386570594
They may be 2 deep 4 u because you're literally stupid.

>>386570594
Theres nothing 2deep4me about TTP though.
The relationship between you and the AI was great.

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>>386569359
I think he only played the first one. It says volumes about his effort to "correct the mistakes" of the Myst games when he doesn't even understand that Myst games aren't only about cryptic puzzles in a closed environment but also about conveying story both actively (through character monologues and cutscenes) and passively (journals, the environment and even the puzzles), and puzzles whose components and their placement have practical use in the context of the game world.

Pic related.

>>386570515
>the quotes are being used as a crutch to add missing value and purpose to the game.

this is the dumbest thing i've read today and fucking hellblade came out today

>>386570789
Name 1 (O N E) game where external quotes actually added something of worth to the game and wouldnt be the same without.

>>386570907
This is subjective. Any answer he gives you would just deny. Nice try.

>>386570427
What are you talking about? How could you possibly be confused by this?

>>386567264
humans are very good at recognizing patterns

>>386570907
The Witness. It literally adds perspectives to a game about perspective.

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>>386570907
Duke Nukem 3D

>>386570907
Bioshock

>>386562631

Is this the only game you can pirate with a piece of paper and a pencil?

>>386571285
see>>386565241

>>386565530
I do not understand the logic.

>>386570907
modern warfare 1. I wouldn't have had the strength to go on if it wasn't for Churchill's quote.

>>386571139
excellent answer.
>>386571194
thats why i said external, meaning, not existing in to the in-game universe. And its not really a quote in the same way because Ryan actually says it as a welcoming speech
>>386570975
just give me your answers

>>386563125
The best thing about people calling this game pretentious is that unlocking the secret area and listening to the audio logs by the guys who made the island literally has the game admit they're doing that shit on purpose and it doesn't really mean anything.

>>386571438
>dude we know its shit, thats the point lmao
awful

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>>386570594
>anything beyond pure gameplay is 2deep4u
ok

I liked the audiologs t b h

>>386570907
Why does it matter if game has done it in the past or not? The Witness does it and it works really well.

>>386571913
but it didnt though

>>386571567
I dunno, a few hours of random inspirational philosophical quotes leading up to the reveal that the simulation exists literally just to teach you to how to do line puzzles and two scientists going "it's all a bit pretentious, don't you think" was an amazing punchline for me.

>>386568896
Do you know that the solution for the columns is in one of the earlier puzzles in that section?

>>386564898
>There's actually a reason why they use those quotes

do tell

>>386572014
That's the labyrinth, not the columns. Unless I've been missing something the whole time.

>>386570594
TTP actually used real philosophy and did it quite skilfully. The Witness' devs apparently though that throwing some "deep" quotes and films in there automatically makes the game deep as well.

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>>386570380
you don't have to slowly walk to solve those

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>>386571139

>>386572067
It's to make the simulation seem philosophically deeper than it is. Literally, in-universe.

>>386572291
that's the actual dictionary definition of pretentious

>>386572014
>>386572150 is right
that little maze you draw near the beginning of the challenge dictates the layout of the labyrinth.

>>386572291
Wasn't the simulation designed as a place where you can just think about stuff and develop yourself in piece and the audiologs were there to provide sort of and inspiration and intellectual stimulus?

>>386572448
It's self-mockery.

>>386571965
it did work. not for you maybe but the game isn't for everyone.

>>386563768
Talos is a pretty basic puzzle game outside of some of the laser puzzles in the DLC.

The custom campaigns on the workshop are better than the actual game. At least they try to do interesting things with the mechanics.

I started this game last night for free.
I solved the tree fruit section, but what the fuck was the solution for that last one without the fruit? I tried all the possible solutions and got it, but I just guessed.
Also fuck the puzzles at the castle.

>>386572067
In-universe the game is just a VR sim the dev team was hired to do by their government, its purpose is to indoctrinate people with a more scientific worldview and kickstart inspiration, to be a modern muse, all for the purpose of making a better world. So they constantly play these quotes and have you "experience" the environment but looking at it from all possible angles.

>>386572746
Still more interesting than "this tree and its branches are the puzzle".

>>386572623
>hurr durr im retarded
>this is retarded
>haha i was only pretending

>>386567839
>noticing a fallen branch
I don't know if that's a good or bad design. I just... man.

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>>386572150
>>386572525
Damnit, yeah you're right. I completely forgot about the columns.

>>386572925
It's a good thing those are like 1% of the game while laser puzzles are 90% of talos

>>386571438
>It's all literally ironic shitposting
Really buttered my biscuit

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>>386571438
>>386573091

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What are some games like that where you wander in an unknown land (not necessarily an island), try to uncover some mystery even if there isn't one and solve puzzles but not on the fucked-up level of Myst where you don't know what you're doing the whole time.
I loved The Witness, TTP (which felt more about solving puzzles than discovering some kind of secret somehow), The Turing Project, but the former feels so comfy and I unironically loved the puzzles.

>>386573180
There's a lot of shitty ones, but Quern Undying Thoughts is the only one that I thought was really good.

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The audiologs are perspectives about the world by different scientists, philosophers, priests, poets etc., as were those videos you could unlock.
The game is also full of perspective puzzles both in puzzles and stuff like pic related. You may call all of this pretentious, but the logs and videos were certainly not random.

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>Myst
>where you don't know what you're doing the whole time.

>>386564898
>in that case you should call philosophy as a whole pretentious

You wouldn't be wrong if you did.

>>386572925
Not really. While I'd argue The Witness' story and themes are trash, the puzzles are very well executed in how they teach you the rules and how they integrate the environment into the restricted bounds of the puzzle board. What it achieves is really only possible in a videogame. It's inspired design.

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>>386562631
>those long as fuck literal videos you have to watch

Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

>>386562631
YES *wink* *wink*

>>386573435
Probably JBlow

>>386573435
What the hell are you talking about? Those are just easter eggs, nobody actually watched them

>>386571405
>thats why i said external, meaning, not existing in to the in-game universe

I guess you haven't actually played the game?

>>386573393
That is the theme, dummy. The theme of the game is you learning the language of the puzzles. That's why the ending is pure pottery. It was there all along, but you didn't speak the language, so you didn't understand it the first time you saw it. It's a great game.
The story is shit though, it doesn't really exist. Eh, it gives the game a sense of purity in a way.

>>386573180
I liked Obduction, though I felt there was something missing from it that kept it from being a true Myst.

>>386573590
One of the hidden line puzzles requires you to sit through an hour-long lecture video

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Hypothesis: reception to The Witness would have been much more positive if the game didn't take place on an island, which apparently caused half of the retards on /v/ to think that the game would be an adventure game like Myst.

>>386573341
I added it to my wishlist since I've seen it mentioned some posts ago in this thread, I'm not sure how I missed it when I filtered by puzzle/exploration tags. Now to wait for the price drop.
I admit I also liked the colorful graphics, every other game is either 1995-FMV or 2025-muh-realism. I was also tempted by Aporia but there aren't many reviews, even if they're almost all positive.

>>386573384
You must be 18 and all that.

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is Riven good?
I have on gog and matthew memetosis make that video but he may be autismic so I don't know

>>386573889
You don't HAVE to do it, though. It's your autism that makes you do it.

>>386573889
You don't HAVE to watch those then do you. It's just a little hidden thing on the side there.

>>386573889
You can skip to any point in the video if you want

>>386572814
The branch with the fruit was broken off by someone and you find the fruit inside the gate you open. You are supposed to compare the panel with the tree and spot the difference.

>>386573843
Obduction felt too monotone. Too much time spent running around looking for a clue or a thing to solve. Just give me a puzzle and give me all the clues, don't make me run around looking for shit, that's not fun

>>386573820
I meant the narrative themes, you donut. Obviously the gameplay themes are extremely cohesive and successful.

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>>386569141
>It's frustrating as all hell because there are rules that show up that are never explained to you or hinted at properly.
>It's frustrating as all hell because there are puzzles that don't give you the solution or hint at it properly

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>>386570907
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup.
Some items and objects have relevant quotes that add to the atmosphere

>>386574183
What is the narrative theme? Honestly, I don't get the story at all. It's like it doesn't exist.

>>386573843
>yfw MUH CAROLINE

>>386573950
It's a fucking masterpiece, but you'll have the best experience if you've played Myst beforehand, as Riven picks up pretty much immediately after.

>>386574143
>almost immediately guess the car number/telephone wheel puzzle
>try it
>wrong
>3 hours wasted until I repeated it again and it I found I actually wrote one number wrong
Same fucking thing happened in Riven, when I fucked up the colour that one sphere represents

>>386574194
An """open""" world puzzle game should limit you to a few sub-areas while it iterates on mechanics. Having to backtrack to figure out puzzle rules or just bruteforce them, defeats the purpose in the first place.

>>386574194

>here's a bunch of symbols
>you don't know what they mean because you didn't follow the linear path for this set of puzzles, better double back halfway across the island looking for the starter area for this specific type of puzzle

Tetrominoes can go fuck themselves.

>>386574041
You can't skip once you start "drawing" the line though, so his point stands. Though as others have said, it's not required, and you can alt-tab, it's not like somebody's pointing a gun at you and you're forced to look at the video for 1h.

>>386574571
Figuring out the rules of the puzzles is the metapuzzle, retardo. That's the puzzle that unites all the puzzles in all the areas. That's why the game works.

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>>386574194
misinterpret all you want, the witness had a huge problem highlighting and differentiating rules and even people who like the game commented on that

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>>386573908
>takes place on an island
>puzzles strewn about the island
>JBlow has literally said he made the game to "correct the mistakes" of Myst
>it's retarded to go in thinking the Witness is like Myst
One of these things is not like the others;
One of these things just doesn't belong.
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

>>386574285
youre playing a videogame about playing a videogame about a guy building a videogame but now you are the guy who built the videogame only the videogame isnt a videogame its real life

and its all a matter of perspective maaaaaan

>>386574665
You can immediately start drawing again

>>386574694
>Figuring out the rules of the puzzles is the metapuzzle, retardo.
You dont figure out anything, the game specifically gives you samples to teach you. I cant believe people actually think this is somehow smart just because its not hitting you over the head with press x to puzzle

>>386574695
I literally never had this problem. But I am pretty good at puzzle games.

>>386574620
>>386574571

It's not open world, it's structured like a metroidvania. Instead of getting in game abilities you gain knowledge of how to solve puzzles. You complaint is not different from " why can't metroid crawl?"

>>386574885
>the game specifically gives you samples to teach you
Apparently that was too hard for people like >>386574695
And no, it doesn't teach you everything that way. Some rules end up being a puzzle later on.

>>386574695
What? There are at most 3 or 4 rules per symbol, and as low as 1. People who didn't get the rules are as bad as Blow being an utter retard when playing Zelda >>386564314

>>386574885
That's just how puzzle games work... the puzzle begins simple and then becomes progressively more complex. If the witness outright told you how the puzzles worked, it would simply be solving the first few puzzles for you. The Witness's implementation is neither novel nor a point of criticism... its how a puzzle's should be presented.

>>386575042
I mistook a lot of puzzles too, its not just him. Some had some serious ambiguity issues.

>>386574695
people with learning disabilities complained. everyone else enjoyed it.

No.

It's all about perspective and it's actually quite mindblowing when you realize what that means.

The line puzzles are just the first layer of the game.

>>386575140
Like what? Give an example of a puzzle you thought had a serious ambiguity issue. All the puzzles in the game are fully discrete, so it should be easy to do this.

>still replying in this thread hours later
do you have a job, Jon?

>>386564898
>in that case you should call philosophy as a whole pretentious
>implying it isn't

>>386573341
How is Obduction, if you played it ?

>>386575283
>a man was mean to my Japanese anime, so his game can't be good!!
Shut up nerd

>>386575283
>different opinions REEEEEEEEE

>>386575140
Give me an example of a symbol you didn't get.
Seriously this is 50% of the game, I watched a friend being dumb and drawing lines thinking he could bruteforce some puzzles. Once I told him "Put the rules you know or *think* you know on paper and take it slow. If it's not working, go back to the area where it teaches you how the symbol works". After that, he had no more "problems" with the game.

>>386575285
I get it, but you already tried >>386573384

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>>386575550
>needing to write shit down on paper for this game

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>>386575283
pretty early on.
For example, i initially thought you had to have a line that touched the same amount of white and black blocks before i then got it was literally building a wall to keep out the nignogs.

>>386575637
you don't need to though

>>386574695
>the witness had a huge problem highlighting and differentiating rules
every single area in the game starts with an extremely obvious puzzle that demonstrates the rules, then the rules get more and more complicated and obscure

but even as intricate as the puzzles get, the game clearly differentiates between zones where certain rulesets are in play. you won't get pitch puzzles outside of the jungle area for example. or color tinting outside of the little town area. or lattice blocking outside of the dojo

>>386575709
>>386575550

>>386575335
Not him, but I have played it.
It's unfortunately bad. Very few real puzzles, some tedious stuff where you have to re-input the exact same solution over and over again, and a bafflingly bad end-game design decision which requires you to solve a puzzle by going through a dozen loading screens in row which totally kills whatever enjoyment you get out of the "exploration" aspect of it.
It's piss compared to Riven.

>>386575709
>For example, i initially thought you had to have a line that touched the same amount of white and black blocks
What? You can't solve the second puzzle that way. What are you on about?

>>386564898
The core puzzle game is fun but the rest is above and beyond pretentious, and that's just what it is and what we should expect from Blow. I don't think i t's even a detriment to it, because Blow kindly sets aside all the too pretentious stuff as fully optional. He doesn't even make them achievements.

>>386575709
That just sounds like how you play the game, anon. Are you trying to argue that the game is flawed because you didn't figure out that puzzle on the first try?

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>>386575709
are you for real

>>386575709
so in the end you managed to learn? that's the whole point.

>>386575709
>touched the same amount
The line on the very first screen has to run next to 2 black dots and 1 white dot. You're a dum dum

>>386576116
He means that the number of "sides" have to be equal. It will stop working on the next puzzle, and he will realize his solution was wrong and figure out the real way to do it.

>>386575709
Oh interesting dude. So there are two possible rules that can satisfy those three puzzles. If only there was some... fourth puzzle. Something that could satisfy this ambiguity! Damn you, Blow! Give me a tutorial!

>>386576005
I dont know, i just feel like the witness's puzzle's were too specific and the designers just assumed everyone was going to think like them.
i think thats why i liked TTP more because there was little ambiguity to be had

>>386576267
>It will stop working on the next puzzle, and he will realize his solution was wrong and figure out the real way to do it.
And that's the game. Pretty fun. Going through tutorials wouldn't be fun at all

>>386575798
Thanks it looked really good from the trailers and most reviews but I felt those problems in a lot of gameplay videos. They wanted to make something too big for the genre it seems.

>>386576361
>So there are two possible rules that can satisfy those three puzzles
No, that rule only satisfies puzzle 1.

>>386575709
>>386575781
Fair enough, although it's a serious case of thinking outside the box, but why not. The thing is, as others have said, this "rule" just doesn't work once you get to the second or third puzzle, so it's ok if you thought you had it when it was not the case (pretty sure many people misunderstood some rules, especially with the stars and some tetromino), but you also got it right fast, so I wouldn't say the game has a problem "differentiating rules".
It's just part of the learning process, but every first 5 puzzles for every symbol and you have the whole set of rules down.

>>386576479
No I think it satisfies all three. I didn't check the third one carefully. What he is doing is counting the sides of white and black squares that are being touched. It's similar to the way the triangle puzzles work later.

>>386576267
I don't get it. The number of sides aren't equal. More line segments are adjacent to black squares than white squares. How does this logic work?

>>386574285
its a koan

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>>386576630
There were more, this one mas a bit more troublesome. At first i thought it was a modified version of the blue panels but you had to match the black dots with the bigger black dots amount.

I just think TW needed a tiny bit more structure and clearer rules, and the invisible walls were a let down as well. I get its design purpose though.

>>386574285
Blow realized that the core gameplay was arbitrary puzzles with arbitrary rules, that could basically be boiled down into a mobile app, and the island was incoherent and shouldn't exist for any reason, and consequently he decided that he was just going to be extremely on the nose about it: the island exists as a medium for these puzzles to be solved in, nothing more, nothing less.

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>>386576382
TTP's puzzles also occasionally allowed quite a lot of freedom in the way you solve them to the point where you could break them - sometimes even deliberately in case of some of the star puzzles and secrets.

>>386577132
You can recognize that puzzle is much more difficult than the surrounding puzzles, though, right? When I saw it I just left, because I knew I didn't have the tools to solve it yet.

>>386577132
Well now this is the perfect example of the game telling you to fuck off because clearly you are not yet ready to solve this puzzle. Isn't it the puzzle for the first bunker right outside the first zone where you begin? Then the tutorial puzzles for the black&white squares and the hexagons are just a bit further, but I've seen people trying to stay there for 30 minutes because they thought they could do it.

>I just think TW needed [...] clearer rules
I disagree because I thought that unless you wanted to solve some puzzles (like for example in the main hub) right when you discovered them, it was evident that you had to explore more before you could do them.

I don't really remember invisible walls though.

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>>386577432
>Going for all the stars without a guide (as nature intended)
>Can't tell if I'm """"out of bounds"""" or actually out of bounds
>Eventually figure out how to break almost every area in the game
>Still took a couple hours to find some of the stars

>>386577132

But the tutorial panels for both the black/white squares and the hexagons were literally the next two things you saw when walking down that path? You surely have a better example than that, right?

I thought the game made it very clear that each puzzle element had a tutorial set of panels, and if you came across something you hadn't seen before to just leave it until you found that tutorial area. I guess if you're not the type who will let themselves leave a puzzle and come back to it later, you'd find it more frustrating.

>>386577793
I think that one opens one of the "video" areas and it actually supposed to be hard to solve when you first come across it. You should return there once you complete the dot areas and the black/white square areas.

Hardest puzzle was the one in the ruined boat. Best puzzle was the puzzle chain inside the mountain where you ultimately had to find a simultaneous solution to 6 different puzzles.

>>386577358
completely wrong. In the noclip documentary for the game blow said the whole conception of the game is about drawing lines and then climbing a mountain and drawing lines in the environment. it was initially a game about wizards where you perform magic by drawing lines. you would learn new spells by exploring the world and coming across new ways to draw the lines. Eventually the game became a puzzle game but the core of the game is still about drawing lines in the environment. that wouldn't be possible without the island.

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Superior puzzle game incoming.

>>386578471
>Infinifactory for molecules

>>386578346
He came up with the game idea during a gamejam and then developed it into a full game that never had a real story beyond "game designer J. Blow designs a island to solve puzzles in". Blow gets really butthurt when people about his games and always says they are all wrong. He still insists Braid has nothing to do with nuclear bombs or getting your girlfriend stolen, for example.

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Daily reminder that pure logical puzzles like those The Talos Principle and Spacechem that gives you all the tools and rules you need to solve it is objectively better than the Witness/Myst bullshit where you have to intuitively detect abstract patterns.

@386578737
TTP and Spacechem are nothing alike man. Nor are the Witness and Myst. I changed the >> to an @ to not give a reward for this shitty bait.

>>386570779
That pic was brilliant design.
I actually immediately knew what that was about despite it supposedly being cryptic as shit.

>>386578861
They are very alike in how they present the puzzles to you. You will never fail to solve a puzzle in Spacechem or Talos Principle because a mechanic wasn't thoroughly explained to you.

Except the clock puzzle, fuck that shit.

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>>386565725
There's tons of crazy shit in it if you take your time and a closer look at the environments and the amount of effort that went into the design of the island and how it integrates optical tricks and all those environmental line puzzles is nothing short of a masterpiece.

http://www.artofluis.com/3d-work/the-art-of-the-witness/

Meanwhile, TTP was done with an extensive use of photogrammetry and photo textures which results in ridiculously high quality assets but also a lack of a personal note.
Most levels look too much like they were made by some people who used a bunch of assets like building blocks on a flat surface, with tons of 90°angles, straight, basic walls, repeating columns that they didn't even bother to rotate, etc.
It doesn't look organic and together with the photorealistic assets horribly artificial - which... actually works in TTP's favor and even handwaved in the game itself.
Still, it's up to Serious Sam 4 to show whether it was done deliberately for in-game reasons or due to a lack of budget and creative talent.

>>386579090
Yes, the Witness being a tribute to Myst is a little weird because he basically totally rejects Riven and embraces a very different kind of game framework: multiple "worlds" with special mechanics and a certain number of discrete puzzles in each world. It's not even what Myst did either. I guess he just liked the aesthetic and wanted to update it from the ancient 3-D art.

>>386579205
What is the clock puzzle?

>>386579510
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAd-qi4VqPg

Basically a level in talos principle that works completely differently from the rest of the game.

>>386579205
>>386579510
Do you mean the timed puzzle at the end? You have to solve the puzzles within the allotted time. The conspicuous board is actually a map for the room with all the pillars. Match them up.

>>386579510
One of the only QR codes in the game that doesn't autotranslate, says something like "The eagle has landed" and then requires you to guess that the puzzle solution is the date of the moon landing. If I recall correctly the devs have publicly apologised about it.

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Hey what's going on in this thread?

>>386578737
Daily reminder that your opinions are objectively worse than mine, so fuck off, dweeb.

>>386579205
There was also that little dick-move with the mine and the crate which wasn't properly explained and doesn't show up until the next hub world.

>>386579698
>If I recall correctly the devs have publicly apologised about it.

For that one and that other star puzzle with the connector hidden inside a tree which was changed into one atop a column by now.

>>386578737
I don't think The Witness is anything like the arbitrary find this clue shit Myst pulls. Your skillset in The Witness is clearly defined and with the exception of the village which combines all the other rules, which is made incredibly obvious that you aren't supposed to go to straight away, the respective areas teach their rulesets in a very logical and clear fashion. The game would be significantly worse if they just had a pop up that describes a symbol the first time you see it.

>>386579771
is this good?

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>>386578471
pssh, kid's stuff
here's a real man's game

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>>386581175
It's pretty good. Same writer as Talos. Pretty cool puzzle mechanics. Really unique art style.

>the Shitness

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step aside
puzzlekino coming through

>>386578471
>>386582394
You might as well just learn a programming language at that point.

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>>386562631
The puzzle panels didn't grip me all the way through but hot damn does the setting and art design make me adore this game. The island is so well thought out in regards to the environmental puzzles and it's generally gorgeous and comfy. My only complaints are that it's too easy to stumble unprepared into the town and that the swamp is necessary to do early yet it's not very accessible.
And I've been looking up blind let's plays of it just so I can scrub through to where they find their first environmental puzzle so I can see their eureka moment for it, I loved that shit so much. That was the real game there. Fuck, that shit is the reason this game is up there with Ghost Trick and Undertale for games I wish I could experience for the first time again
I understand when people say the story is pretentious but honestly I discarded the notion of it even having a story when I got into it and treated the recordings as little Easter eggs and fun tidbits of history and philosophy I was unfamiliar with.

>>386563308
yeh, i love that bit in castlevania where you DON'T kill any skeletons, and I'm NOT the half son of a vampire.

I love NOT beating the shit out of a giant rotting corpse filled with maggots in an inverted castle.

ITS SO FUN.

>>386583057
I meant half vampire, not half son.

Also everyone who likes this game is fat.

>>386564898
Just because it's a quote doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

>>386578471
Cool. Looks shit.

>>386582758
Or play Robot Odyssey.

>>386562631
This game would be a 10/10 if it was a Myst clone instead of a bunch of independant puzzles

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>that one type of puzzle that you can never master or even solve consistently
Fucking Tetris. I got most everything else down pat but my brain just doesn't work that way I guess

I think I'm just retarded. I started playing yesterday and I couldnt solve any of the puzzles in the quarry/boathouse area and had to look up the answers online.

Also the water reflection one was fucking retarded. Had to stand in an extremely specific area while the water lowered to see a glimpse of the answer for 2 seconds.

>>386583971
If you look shit up you might as well not play the game.
If you aren't able to solve the easy puzzles that teach you the mechanics what makes you think you will be able to solve the ones that build on them?

>>386584871
I'm retarded. I cant figure out the mechanics behind the puzzles, so I cant solve the later ones and end up getting completely stuck and just guessing.

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>>386584871
>>386585204
Like I literally have no idea what to do here. I know I'm supposed the separate off the dots from the rest and make the shapes, but I cant find any workable solution.

>game's been out for over a year
>still wants $40 for it
>got DOOM for $20 half a year after it came out
No wonder people pirated this game.

>>386585358
Have you done the tutorial areas for those types of shapes?
If you did you should be able to solve this fairly easily, it's not all that difficult.

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>>386585507
Cant remember. Heres the one next to it. All I know is that the lines do some shit like eliminate the blocks, I just have no idea what to do.

>>386578471
VERY good game, i fucking loved spacechem. that puzzle is pretty easy though, the hard ones are the 5 reactor bullshit ones where you have to account for inefficiencies and having too much of an element etc.

>>386585478
Was -40% for a week just 10 days ago or something, also for 12 USD in the april 2017 humble monthly. Try harder.

>>386585809
JB, please.

>>386582394
+1 for tis100, should be used to teach in schools

>>386585878
Not an argument sweetie.

>>386585763
How can you not remember whether you've done the areas those two symbols were taught to you in, what the fuck anon. Clearly anything that requires more than just point and shoot is beyond you so you shouldn't even bother trying to progress in this and give up.

>>386562631
I absolutely love the game.
The idea of the panel symbols and how learning them sort of works as a Metroid powerup opening new paths is great.
I wish there were more areas like the garden maze though, the game didn't get everything out of the puzzle panels and the environment working together

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>>386562631
>>386563668
>>386564547
IT TOOK EIGHT YEARS TO MAKE!

>>386563768
I like the puzzle solving in The Witness more, and exploring one big area is more fun to me than going through seveal smaller ones.
Talos definitely wins in the story side of things, since Witness hardly even has one

>>386586216
>Here is a statement
>You are wrong
>NUH UH THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE MAD IS BECAUSE I'M RIGHT
What the fuck am I reading?

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>>386586106
>match the line to the branch the apple is on
>no theres no apple

nice epic i like it

>>386586641
I know the answer immediately. Please off yourself, you are just bad at puzzle games.

>>386586216
The statement might be true in a way, the problem is that he presents it as some great revelation.
I like Blow's games, but pretty much everything he says is obnoxious

>>386586784
You know the answer because you already knew it. I figured it out anyway, doesnt mean it isnt shitty design

>>386563768
No. Both are just as pretentious, but the puzzles in The Witness are actually fun.

>>386586905
The tree puzzles wouldn't have been very interesting if all of them had the same solution

>>386571438
is this real? I didnt finish it cause only the environmental puzzles would be actually fun to solve and those retarded quotes left a sour taste in my mouth

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>>386587130
The one before it took the same solution and twisted it, that one just completely took the shit I learned and threw it out the window

>reward is a gate opens to literally nothing

>>386587441
>I need to be rewarded every time I fart
You must have been pretty disappointed when you saw the game only had two achievements on Steam

>>386565426
Talos is hard on the eyes sometimes, and throwing a bunch of shitty egyptian themed squares doesn't make for a good artstyle. The snow levels were cool, as was the extra floating island zone, but The Witness as a whole just looks better, not to mention it blends together in a neat way a lot of different environments

>>386587598
>playing videogames to prove how intellectual you are to yourself

>>386587734
>playing video games expecting to be rewarded every minute
I can do that all day, except it's night.

>>386587819
Why would I not want to be rewarded for investing time into beating a challenge a game has set for me? Stop defending this retarded design. Its not my fault Blow is too much of a hack to put some effort into creating incentives to play his game.

>>386587819
>turns out a challenge had no point and is never used again
Why even put it in?

>>386588214
Do you not think it's a change compared to the other puzzles? Sure, there are like 10 of them in the whole game, they serve no purpose (could be said of every other thing), so the question could either be "why?" or "why not?". Seeing that some people >>386586641 actually have a hard time with such trivial puzzles, I say it was worth it.

FEZ did everything this game did, but earlier and better

>>386588564
"Why not" is not an argument, Johnathan.

>>386562631
Yup but they try their best to use visual cues from the world, pretty neat

>>386588689
Not an argument, sweetie.

>>386587441
The reward is learning how the branch puzzles work so you can finish the town so you can unlock the final laser to unlock the final challenge

>>386562631
And exploring.
It's nice.