Can a game be poorly made but still fun?

>>386529645
can you repeat the question?

Skyrim isn't fun so the question is irrelevant.

>>386529645
I play really bad games to get a quick laugh all the time.

>>386529883
Can a poorly made game be still fun?

>>386529645
>The most detailed and interactive open-world RPG has a few hiccups and makes a few compromises
>poorly made

>>386530116
i don't know

>>386529938
I had fun

>>386529645
Goat simulator is fucking awesome

>>386530132
being able to move stuff around isn't "interactive"

I'm having a blast with Ultimate Skyrim. Give it a whirl next time, it's fun.

>>386529645
Yeah, I jacked off to my smutted up frankenstein monster of this poorly made piece of shit and had fun.

>>386529645
No-one has made a game to compete with Skyrim.

When a competitor does something better we'll know how poorly made Skyrim is.

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>>386531983
>Interacting with objects isn't interactive
>Interacting with people isn't interactive
>Interacting with the environment isn't interacting
What's you definition of interactive then, retardanon?

Depends on the type of fun you want have and how you can mod it

>>386532764
Interactive is a just a buzzword when you can't actually think of any real reasons as to why the game is good, don't use it

>>386532140
>requiem based
nice meme

>>386532764
You sound like no game ever did anything like this.
>interacting with props is useless and potentially lethal thanks to physics engine
>interacting with people is bare-fucking-bones, you make them read out small strings of text, some you can tell to follow you or stand there or drag this houseware you stolen
>environment traps are rare, all same and basically only do damage to you or enemies, are usable exactly one time, and require very basic interaction - ignite, touch.

Skyrim isn't interactive game, anon, even PS2 games had more going in them than this.

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>>386532140
I see you, Todd

>>386533693
name games more interactive, i want to play them.

>>386533693
Psi-Ops
HL2 (stretching it here, it's just physics mostly. NPC interaction is nonexistant, and environmental kills mostly fall under physics too)
Crysis 1 (physics, environments, AI has speck of thinking power)
Red Faction series (mostly environments)
Dragon's Dogma, I assume, hadn't time to check it out.

I know what you want me to tell you, and I probably did, but that's just how shitty vidya became. Understand, I don't say that there are many games more interactive than Skyrim, I just say that Skyrim isn't really interactive when you sit down and think about it.

>>386534372
Shit, meant to >>386534054

>>386532764
interacting with the environment and charaxters in a meaningful way i.e actually affecting the story and world, not moving shit around a table and talking with npc who have nothing interesting to say

Skyrim would be more fun if i was more polished, if they added seasons like that mod video showed it would add more variety

>>386529883
You're not the boss of me now.

One thing I hate compared to oblivion is that people treat you like shit no matter what. The Hero of Kvatch is worshiped in Bruma and across Cyrodiil people say their thanks and ponder things. The entire world is thankful to the Nerevarine and aren't shy about in. In Skyrim a few guards will thank you after insulting or insult you after thanking you.

The last dragonborn didn't feel like he saved the world. The Hero of Kvatch and especially the Nerevarine felt like the saviors of the world despite what the last Dragonborn did was arguably more important.

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>>386529645
Skyrim is the best example of a game people like despite it having awful gameplay

>>386533296
Pretty much every reason for games being "good" is a buzzword.

>>386533693
>interacting with props is useless
A) Its fucking immersive
B) High level of detail also comes from useful items
C) You can put a bucket on merchant's head to steal things

>potentially lethal thanks to physics engine
>You can actually use physics to your advantage


>interacting with people is bare-fucking-bones
>some you can tell to follow you or stand there or drag this houseware you stolen
Thats more than most rpgs allow. Also you can steal from people, including their keys to access their shops and houses.

>environment traps are rare, all same and basically only do damage to you or enemies, are usable exactly one time, and require very basic interaction - ignite, touch.

Again, pretty much the only game that does it better is D:OS. But their authors fail at creating engaging gameplay loops.

>>386535252
You can persuade characters. You can bribe characters. You can steal from characters. You can kill characters (in a way that will not be essentially a game over). Characters can also die by themselves.

If someone gives oyu a quest to kill some bears, you can steal some pelts instead and give them as a proof.

What more can you fucking want.

>>386532604
BotW

>>386530329
No you didn't.

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>>386536903
>You can put a bucket on merchant's head to steal things
>Its fucking immersive

>>386537246
>world barely changes no matter what you do
>guards and people will treat you like shit even if you saved everything
>you can't actually kill a large percentage of characters like in morrowind where you can kill anyone
I want an RPG with choices that matter and a living system. I want to be able to fail quests if I don't do good enough.

>You can persuade characters. You can bribe characters
Only when the option comes up. You can't bribe and persuade more than a few characters.

The biggest problem with the TES games is that they're actually pretty much the exact same game since Morrowind, just with a feature here streamlined or touched up and some graphical improvements. The lore and quest design was obviously better in Morrowind too but from a basic angle the games feel basically the same. Floaty shitty melee combat, all-or-nothing stealth system which is either 100% garbage or 100% OP, and magic system that breaks the game without even trying.

The series hasn't really evolved at all at its core, and what was impressive then is just dated as fuck now.

>>386537547
No that one is comedic. And that fun is only possible thanks to detailed physics simulation and proper NPC FoV simulation.

And because it is juxtaposed with grounded environment.

>>386537764
>I want an RPG with choices that matter and a living system. I want to be able to fail quests if I don't do good enough.
Bethesda published Prey for you.

>>386538034
So dated that no one can even compete.

>>386538524
jesus Christ shut the fuck up you underage fanboy. Skyrim is shit compared to Oblivion, its like the fallout 4 of TES

>>386530132
Hi todd

>>386539097
>underage fanboy
I've played their games since Arena, boy.

>Skyrim is shit compared to Oblivion
>No retarded speech minigame
>World-leveling is much more restrained
>Gameplay systems are actually functional and balanced for the most part
>You can marry everyone

Skyrim is decline in some ways, but is also advanced in others.

Also as a dungeon crawler on Survival FO4 is pretty much flawless, and it is better than FO3 in pretty much everything.

>>386539097
I think skyrim is a mess but the fact that it doesn't do what oblivion did with the leveling system (ie: take Morrowind's leveling and slap it onto a completely leveled world) makes it better.

>>386529645
sure, i have fun playing RS2 vietnam even though it's a clunky and unpolished game with a lot of bad design choices

>>386529645
>fun
I wish you fags would stop saying this, fun is just a buzzword for when you can't think of any redeeming feature of a game. If you can't think of a reason why it's superior to other games of it's type (TW3 for instance) then you shouldn't even post a thread about it on /v/.

>>386539097
>Skyrim is shit compared to Oblivion
Kill yourself.
Oblivion is objectively worse than Skyrim.

>>386530132
Stop Todd. I already bought skyrim 6 times :^(

>>386541690
But you bought Fallout 4 only twice. It deserves more.

>>386537438
Yes I did.

>1500+ hours in Morrowind
>1000+ hours in Oblivion
>60 hours in Skyrim

Anon, just play whatever you think is fun and stop going on /v/!

>>386544040
>200 hours in morrowind already
>first time I ever played it was late June of 2017
It is fun. I don't why people say it is dated so much. Yeah the graphics are early 2000s tier but the game play, world, story, and atmosphere still holds up and surpasses most modern games.

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>install Requiem
>have fun
the game will always be rough around the edges but modded playthroughs have given me plenty of good memories

It took me some hours of gameplay of skyrim, not sure if 15 or so, when I was at level 20 when I noticed that it was complete shit and that I wasn't having any fun

>>386544421
that;s the thing
mods fix skyrim in so many levels that its insane how fucking terrible the vanilla game is in comparison

Hitting yourself in the taint with a hammer can be fun if you try hard enough

>>386545679
A lot of the problems of Skyrim are tricky to spot at first because they boil down to conflicting development strands.

Take the dungeons, 95% of which drag on and on and on and on and are basically just the same rooms repeated ad nauseum. Morrowind had a lot of samey dungeons but most of them were short little interludes because the developers rightly knew that the overworld was the primary dungeon. When a big dungeon came along it was striking and surprising and left a lasting impression.

Skyrim combines these long ass dull dungeons with other elements: excessive length equals excessive loot. In games where one of the primary elements is autistically grabbing every single little thing you can sell the fact that you always have to leave piles of it behind just leads inevitably to player annoyance. Combine that with leveled loot and encounters and you have the oblivion problem where dungeons are only diferentiated by basic type and quest. You'll actively avoid dungeons half the time because you don't want to spend 15 mintues fighting necromancers AGAIN just for another loot gamble.

It also conflicts with the switched up leveling system where every skill being primary means you level up 5 times within a single damn dungeon. The developers were obviously aware of this problem, and stupidly 'solved' it by making all the major questlines incredibly short. After all if they weren't so short you'd never solve any of them before you were level 60. And of course it didn't solve it at all because one of the major complaints is how short the questlines are when you stand back and look at them.

I could keep going but you see how all these stupid, conflicting elements all just stem from a single thing: dungeon length. It's the same for all the other problems in the game. Every design element is at odds with a dozen others.

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Trying to make a mage because melee combat is ass cancer. Recommended mods? I already got realistic needs and diseases, midas magic, speechcraft rebalanced, and too many aesthetics mods

Started playing it recently, the main questline is better than I remember Oblivion's being, but I'm only two thirds of the way through and they're making me climb the highest mountain in the game for the fourth fucking time

>>386546304
indeed, but you forgot one of the most important things that was the main reason i wasn't having any fun at all and killed it for me

the skills and balance of abilities is fucking garbage. The perks are terribly boring and are mostly just a "your numbers gets bigger". First time I summoned two atronach and saw how by spamming two-handed fireball I could stagger an entire room and kill any enemy it was fun. The 15th time that I saw that I could stagger every single enemy in the game with destruction magic with impunity I said "well this shit is repetitive and boring as fuck

Playing a melee character was also fucking boring and repetitive from the beginning and literally the only change is your numbers getting bigger:
swing
dance
swing
swing
dance

>stealth
ha ha ha

>>386546612
You can always, yknow, just fast travel.

>>386546308
https://www.tesgeneral.com/

the general on /vg/ is pure cancer, but they aren't wrong in the page for recommended mods

>>386536102
and you're not so big

>>386546878
Cheers anon. I was gonna use the G.E.M.S. page but aparently that's outdated as hell

>>386546790
What annoys me with the perks and skills is how up and down the balancing is.

For some skills (like lockpicking) the perks are practically meangingless and the skill increase is all you need. THe most useful perks on the tree aren't even necessarily about lockpicking itself and more to do with treasure found.

But other skills like blocking are total garbage without the perks no matter how much you pump them.

>>386547246
indeed

I don't know how the fuck can people play without skill and perk mods

>>386546792
If your world is making people want to fast travel, you've fucked up

>>386547479
But that's the problem, isn't it? You want to fast travel in Skyrim because everything is 90% the same, with a few interesting quirks thrown in there.

Of course they can. I did have fun with Skyrim, despite all its problems, and if I had played it when I was like 11-12 I can guarantee I would have fallen in love with it and become a normie bethesda shill. PUBG is also great, despite being unoptimized and unfinished

>>386547749
Also because mountain ranges are essentially giant impassable walls and the overworld is rife with them.

>>386529645
no.

Can a poorly made game with a huge pre-existing mod community willing to fix faults and churn out several games worth of content make it fun?

Fuck yes, currently enjoying a combat-viable illusion/alteration/restoration build through the ordinator mod.

>>386547749
Fast Travelling was in game since day one. It was more immersive in Morrowind and required more planning, but it was still there.

>>386530132
every single game on the planet is "interactive," that's literally the point of a video game
and every game is also detailed to some extent
good buzzwords

>>386548364
Morrowind was insiferably slow though

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>every item is interact-able with fully rendered and with physics
>every piece of clothing worn by npcs can be worn by the player (i.e murdering someone for their clothes)
>unique unscripted npc interactions (raising killed bandits from the dead and making them fight for you, stealing their souls to create enchanted weapons)
>every npc can be pickpocketed/looted for things depending on your skill
>dense living world with constant shit to find and discover

People meme on this game so hard but only because it has a few glaring flaws, yet the same people who meme are the same people have 200+ hours in it

there's literally no game like skyrim

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>>386548593
>that fucking picture

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>>386529645

fun is subjective, so yes