So, is it settled?

Yeah I'll accept that

>>386472397
Is Painkiller actually that good? I only played it on PS3 (ps now) and it was obvious it wasn't a game for a controller.

Is it better on PC?

Serious Sam was never good, and it has done nothing but ruin the general quality of FPS level design
STRAFE isn't that bad
This list is missing EYE

Otherwise perfect.

>blood not in god tier

kys, my dude

>>386472787

Painkiller Black Edition is the best 2,49 I've spent on Steam.

>>386472793
I really enjoyed Strafe but it does not change the fact that when it comes to be a old school FPS it falls flat due to how the roguelike stuff works.

add FEAR to god tier
move Blood to god tier
and lower the shadow warrior reboots to bad tier, the gunplay in those is just bad, and the level design is non existent

>SS3
>bad

the first 4 levels were shit but everything else was great. bad bait

>>386472397
>all dat God ther ones
>fast-paced
Is this bait?

>>386473186
Doombabby shouldn't be allowed to evaluate anything

>>386472787
It's pretty bad, the maps are a grind where a small number of weak enemies attack in waves and then there's a boss that shits on you and is annoying to fight due to its size. I have no idea why it's so highly rated.

>nu-duum
>nu-wolfenstein
>nu-shadow justice warrior
>return to wolfenstein
>fast

>>386472787
>Is Painkiller actually that good?
It depends on what you want. It is one of the last mainstream moodpiece-games, it has very satisfying weapons and gorgeous art direction (some levels are worse than others in that regard though). But gameplay is very basic and is pretty much really, really simple version of Serious Sam, because the game's ultimate goal is to make you feel like a badass while mowing down hordes of slow melee enemies.

>>386473338
Is this nostalgia or bait? I can't tell because RTCW is old and one of the fastest games on the list.

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>>386472397
>douk kickem over blood

>>386473016
>move Blood to god tier
Cryptic Passage deserves god tier. Blood and Plasma, sadly, don't.

>>386473457
>hordes of slow melee enemies
Calling them hordes is giving Painkiller way too much credit.

>half-life
>fast paced

>>386472397
I respect the list overall except one horrific problem. How in the absolute fuck is Serious Sam 2 ranked above 3? How is 3 even that low? The game should easily be in high tier. It's almost identical to the first game just with a slow start and great mid point to final. 2 seriously bored me after a few hours. I attempted to force myself to beat it and couldnt even do it. Id even be happy with just the two switched places but the third game is put far too low. Personally TSE and BFE are my favorite Sam games nearly equally with TSE barely beating BFE.

>>386473338
RTCW is fast
Doom 1-2 isn't

>No Quake 3 Arena

What the fuck was OP thinking?

>>386474273
Not much.

>>386473281
What does that even mean?
PK is just slow by design and is made for killing lots of enemis at your leisure, RTCW in terms of gameplay is your standart WWII shooter with some location variety, Doom is not that fast by design (at least without source ports) in multiplayer, and in single it is very methodical, not run'n'gun (which is why i like it). If that list is about single player than it is probably made by the people who didn't play any of those games.

>>386473623
Well, groups? It is a great game for what it is and it excells in everything it aims for (which is not much), i love it and replay it on regular basis, but if >>386472787 wanted some kind of perfect gameplay revelation than he will be disappointed.

>>386472397
Painkiller and RTTCW are overrated here

>>386472793
>Serious Sam was never good, and it has done nothing but ruin the general quality of FPS level design
You make it sound as if Serious Sam influenced other games in some way. I don't really see it.

>>386474354
It means Doombabbies shouldn't make fast paced shooter lists which is what you're saying too, what the issue? Quake annihilates Doom both mechanically and in pace. RTCW is fast everywhere

Where the FUCK is Tribes you piece of shit autist

>>386472793
>implying other game devs gave a shit about SS enough to copy its crap level design

>>386472397
>fast-paced FPS
>half-life in high tier
???????

>>386472397

Never played Hexen/Heretic series. Only sprite based 90s FPS I've left to try.

Which one's the best among them? And where can I find it?

>SS3 below nuwolfenstein and the Shadow Warrior reboots
Did you even finish it op?

>>386472397
- Pacing for RtcW is not as good, rather I should say it's unevenly spread. The first few levels get same-y a bit too fast, and it's only after the crazy enemies come up that the game picks up it's pace

- Serious Sam Second Enounter LAN co-op is an experience no one should miss out.

- The flow of combat in Shadow Warrior 2 is so good, even though the structure of the game (looter shooter) was the biggest off-puting thing to me.

- I prefer Quake II shooting to Quake I, but the enemy design for Quake I easily wins for me.

- I recently tried the new PC remaster of Turok 2 by Nighdive Studios. These guys are technical wizards. The original PC version was turd and this remastered felt like playing a totally new game.

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>>386472397
Not really. Serious Sam 3 is good. It has it's issues, but it actually has some decent pacing (unlike SS2 which can get really dull at times) and the destructible scenery is fun.

Return to Castle Wolfenstein is absolute crap in singleplayer. The multiplayer may have been good, but the singleplayer is dull as crap.

Old Blood is a lot worse than New Order.

Serious Sam 2 in "good" I presume is your idea of a joke, right?

Also, misses Fear, Heretic, Half-life 2, Metro, Unreal, NOLF, Soldier Of Fortune, Jedi Knight, AvP, that shit-ass awful original Prey game, Crysis series and probably tons of others, while Turok has little to do there being the only fucking console shooter there (either include a bunch of console shooters too - though they can't really be compared to PC ones, or scratch it).

And if we consider Strife, which is close to an open-world with sidequests and shit, you might actually also consider shit like Stalker or EyE too.

>>386472787
It's great, one of the best shooters. You can't expect much more than a Serious Sam scaled down a bit with really fun weapons, art direction and fuckton of variety to enemies and environments. It's not particularly complex and at times lacks the more nuanced encounter design, but it makes up for it in just how elegant and satisfying it is.

It's well worth buying cheaply. Get Black Edition and NEVER buy any of the other expansions or standalones though.

>>386475498
I liked Heretic the most, but I'll freely admit it might be a nostalgia thing.
Heretic is pure Doom clone with a fantasy code of paint. Nothing more, nothing less. Weapons, level design, enemies, all are roughly on par with the original Doom - it never suprises, but has a weird 90's dark fantasy charm.

Hexen strayed far from the formula. It's more RPG'-ish, with multiple classes, non-linear level design, puzzles, heavier emphasis on story... I hated Hexen 1 in particular for lack of weapon variety, stupid universal ammo/mana system and giant, confusing levels that are not fun to navigate. The level design is kinda beautiful for it's era, but god damn the puzzles, mazes, shitty platforming and some weird, huge confusing open landscape maps are just frustrating and not funny at all.

The class system also means you have like four or five weapons for each playthrough, and the games can drag on for ever. While many of them share the same ammo pool.

The only thing they really have going for them, as far as I'm concerned, is atmosphere. Hexen atmosphere was amazing.

Maybe somebody has a better experience with them, but I can't say I really particularly enjoyed the Hexen games. I could not even finish the first one.

>>386477023

Seems Heretic would be my kind of shooter. I'll check Hexen later on. Thanks.

Put TF2 in god tier, otherwise I'm game

>>386472397
Serious Sam 3 and Strafe are both way better than DNF and Daikatana, maybe make a decent tier part.
>>386476804
The problem with SS3 is that it just has a slow start and doesn't really add anything over the original game that makes it better.

>tfw bought Painkiller HD

>>386477887
>The problem with SS3 is that it just has a slow start and doesn't really add anything over the original game that makes it better.
That is where you people are wrong. Outside of the obvious - allowing accomodation of players who aren't accustomed to Serious Sam style shooters, it actually creates a sense of pacing, progression and buildup. The lack of these have ALWAYS been the biggest problem of Serious Sam games.

Which is not to say that there aren't issues with it. The fucking museum level is just plain BAD - it's boring and drags for WAY too long, especially the underground sections. The backstreets of Cairo mission can get confusing to navigate because it uses maze-like structure without providing sufficiently distinct features.
And the bosses - both the red biomechanoid and later the spaceship one are frustrating and not very well designed.

So yeah, it could have been executed better, but the actual gradual progression and slower start SIGNIFICANTLY contribute to the game. It's just that purist freak out because of their shitty old misconceptions about what makes a game good and what does not.

If you really want talk about problems with SS3, I'd say all the undeground levels, the monkeys (though they have been seriously improved with patches) and most of all THE FUCKING WITCH were all seriously bad decisions that actually detract a lot without adding anything.

Also, lack of power-ups and shit isn't benefiting the game either.

>>386472793
strafe just deserve to be forgotten like every other rogue lite fps.

>>386476804
>that shit-ass awful original Prey game
Are you fucking serious?
The Original prey game is one of the best fps ever made.
C'mon, tell me you were trolling.

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>>386478791
No. It isn't and no, I'm not trolling. It's UTTER FUCKING GARBAGE. We are talking about a game that wanted to be original, so they decided that an original replacement for a granade would be the fucking thing from HL1, except not it just LITERALLY FARTS AT THE ENEMY.
A game that thought that it would be a good idea to replace a shotgun with a fucking SUPER SOAKER.
It's fucking awful. From the actually insulting story past incredibly boring weapons (there is literally ONE satisfying weapon in the game, the fucking lightning-flavored leech), some of the worst art direction in history, braindead A.I., to the fact that you LITERALLY CANNOT DIE IN THIS FUCKING GAME.

It's like a fucking textbook on how to not design a shooter. And it fucking takes itself seriously. With that fucking story, with that fucking writing, with that fucking pathetic art direction... it throws fucking pic related to your face! Remember that shit? That was an actual scene, in the fucking game, presented dead fucking seriously.
The developers were literally fucking mental on this shit.

Oh yeah, and did you enjoy those vehicle sections? Weren't they AMAZING?

No.
It had that cute gravity gimmick except it did nothing actually interesting with it. It had that cure portal gimmick, except for fucking SAKE if you have a portal technology in your game, how about you don't use it as just absolutely ordinary doors?! Wow. This doorway is not in the wall, it's in front of the wall! Mind-fucking BLOW! Except it's still door.

Sorry for ranting like this but god damn that game was quite literally offensive. It came TWO YEARS after Half-life 2. It was one of the fucking worst, most disgustingly bad games I've ever played.

And what was worst about it was the INSANE hype around it. The developers going on long rants saying how they made a game that will blow every shooter out of the water. How HL2 has nothing on them. God HH are fucking retards...

>>386478791
>The Original prey game is one of the best fps ever made
It is a gem which recieved lots of undeserved hate but let's be reasonable here - it is not what you said.