>JRPG >Church is evil >god is the final boss

>WRPG
>Church is evil

It's almost as if the counter narrative of the church being holy is popular or some shit aye.

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>JRPG
>Church is used to heal

>>386400254
why are monkeys such assholes

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>cleric class
>God actually answers the cleric's prayers
>God encourages the cleric's violence instead of advocating compassion and love
>Faith is a stat that you can increase on a whim instead of through years of devotion and self torture when you sin

>>386400254
>>JRPG
>>Church is used to heal


I like this cliche though.

>>386399629
>WRPG
>Church is corrupt
>God is good

>>386400417
I like ideas like this.

Actualizing the benefit of worship and having a side or theme to the particular church, bonus points if there's rival churches and more points if it's original and not just a bastardization of real world religions.

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>RPG
>main character is actually evil

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>healing hurts the undead

>Church is evil
>God is not
>You're sent by god itself to purge the Church

>>386399331
>WRPG
>God is good
>Devil is evil

>JRPG
>Japanese Roleplaying Game

>>386400634
any games like this?

>>386400530
actually I was saying I hate all of that and wish games would be more like religion irl (no flashy light in the sky every time you do religious shit and more an invisible force within you IF you have enough faith)

>>386399331
Name 3 games that do this

>>386400806
Dmc4

You don't get it. Anything that is sentient and is more powerful than humans must be killed because one day it could try to destroy us. For the sake of humanity existing everything else must be killed or made impossible to harm us. If a god or godlike being actually exists, they are definitely on the shit list.

>>386399331
>jrpg
>main character is male(female)

>>386399331
howd you get ur words yellow like that

>>386401126
any games that aren't boring?

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>>386400593
>healing potions also hurt them

>>386403393
full image on this is nice

>>386403790
Really? I've never seen it, though I looked and asked on multiple occasions.
Do you have a source?

>>386403894
I'd post it but I'm sure mods would get butthurt about it. It's on some blogsite though, if you just put it in tineye it's one of the first results

>>386399331
Just like real life.

>>386399331
>JRPG
>Church is good
>Church has a badass task-force that hunts down criminals in secret

>>386400337
we share a common ancestor.

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>>386400510
I'm pretty sure that's how it is in real life

>>386399331
>Japanese gaemu
>Demons everywhere
>The Devil controls the world through fake news and drugs in soda
Gotta admit it took me by surprise

>>386399331
>JRPG
>God is your nextdoor neighbor
>And is also best girl but you cannot waifu her, only human grills

>>386399331
>JRPG
>Church is evil
>god is the final boss
>Healer still invokes gods name when she heals party
>Heals still work A-OK

Just once I'd like your magic/healer to break if their magic comes directly from the final boss.

>>386403393
>revive potions OHKO regular undead enemies and do massive damage against undead bosses

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>>386399629
>What is Oblivion

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>>386399331
>Church is good
>God is good
>you turn evil

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>>386404207
>tfw no game about hunting heretics

>>386405267
Closest thing I can think of is OFF but that's not even close.

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>>386399331
>American game
>Americans are never the bad soldiers
>Religion is a good thing
>Tries to be patriotic, fails

>European game
>Not one-sided culture
>Make better "American" games
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGL0xmMBob4

>Japanese games
>As fantasy like as possible, limits are minimal and it's meant to allow you to do things that real life doesn't allow you to
>Also made America more "American
Pic very related.

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>jrpg
>you fight MULTIPLE GODS

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What are some fun games that let me play as an angel with kickass angelic powers?

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>>386404570
are you talking about rune factory 4?

>>386405419
Are all angels this veiny?

>>386404379
well by definition, if god exists, he is the very essence of 'good', so yes.

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>rpg
>You can become god
>Everybody starts to worship you

>>386405428
Yes.

>>386399331
>jrpg
>gods from a dozen different mythologies exist
>they all live in japan

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>>386405597
RF5 never.

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>JRPG
>the cannon ending is the MC destroying the world and waging war against god

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>>386401126
you're not really sent by god in dmc4; if anything having your power rooted in a devil makes it more of a case of 'using a dark power for good'

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>>386399331
>WRPG
>the entire universe just the fever dream of a god

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>jrpg
>church is evil
>you save in church

>>386405514
If an all-powerful being created the universe, I think they're still a god even if they're an asshole.

>>386405202
The church isn't evil in oblivion.

>>386405685
RF 5witch one day, don't lose hope.

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>>386405509
yes

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>JRPG
>God is evil
>you stop the angelic armies and kill God
>Sequel
>God turns into a loli and joins your party
>interdimensional adventures

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Speaking of which, has there ever been a God boss in a JRPG that's bad?

Every one that comes to mind I only remember fondly

>>386406257
>that tiny dick
Now i feel bad for him

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>JRPG
>bad guy is anti-god

>>386400634
>God is evil
>Church is not
>The church helps you kick god's ass

>>386406404
Hey come on man, you shouldn't be judging limp dicks.

>>386406294
Example?

>>386400254
>JRPG
>church is generally a positive influence on people's lives
>one of the sidequests has you teach a sunday school class
>third game has you play as a priest
I'm always pleasantly surprised when games don't feel the need to take the edgy teenager route and make the church the bad guy. It's so common in both western and eastern games.

>>386406393
Does Yu Yevon count? He's basically a deity.

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>>386399331
>police RPG
>the church are evil

>>386406726
whoops, didn't mean to reply

>>386406726
I know that JRPG! I'm actually going to buy Cold Steel on steam here in a little bit.

>>386406294
A fellow mgq i see

>>386400593
>maces and other blunt weapons to bonus damage to skeletal enemies

>>386399331
At least its accurate storytelling.

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>>386406679
I was talking specifically about Monster Girl Quest and Paradox.

>>386405514
>Essence of good
>Punishes people for a literal eternity for not believing in him.
Your definition of good confuses me

>>386406914
Yeah, it seems like its been pretty steadily growing in popularity the last couple years. It's nice to see, it was the main thing that rekindled my interest in JRPGs, I hadn't played one since the PS2 days when I picked up Trails.

>>386399331
>WRPG
>you have one of two choices for every single quest in the game

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>>386399331
>JRPG
>Church is cool
>god is the final boss

>>386407189
name 27 games

>>386406180
for you

>>386399331
>bioware rpg
>your choice of color coded endings that are essentially the same thing

>>386399331

>God wasn't really god to begin with, just some poor bastard that people started worshipping.

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>>386399331
>JRPG
>Multiverses
>Timelines
>Paradoxes
>Multiple dimensions
>Manipulation of time

I fucking hate these tropes because it's so fucking unrealistic.

>the main "church" in the game is a group of militant anti-theists who have made it their mission to destroy all things supernatural
Dishonored is a weird game.

>>386407340
Timelines are unrealistic?

>>386405514
He's more of an SMT style YHVH where he's law incarnate, he's fine with sending people to their eternal damnation if they don't follow his will

>JRPG
>the main character is a teenage androgynous homosex again
>anime shit like always
>LIKE ALWAYS
>some cringe nonsense about crystals

How do people like this shit?

>>386407095
I love having sex with children

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>>386407272
>bioware RPG
>get asshole points for not being gay

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>God is an alien

>>386399331
why is she shouting into her hand ?

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>RPG
>"god" is a physical being you can take down by punching

>>386405419
why does no game exist like this

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>JRPG
>Quest is to find and kill God
>Find out God isn't real and there's no point to the quest

>>386407481
Name 50 games.

>>386405379
>any battlefield since 2142
>good

>>386407340
>WRPG
>Magic
>sci-fi
>monsters born from radiation
>paradoxes
>multiple dimensions
>manipulation of time
I fucking hate these tropes because it's so fucking unrealistic.

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>gookrpg

>>386407140
God is also the essence of justice, thus anything that is determined by providence is inherently just.

We can think it's unfair all we want, but we don't exist outside space and time in an eternal present like God does, so how can we possibly determine what is just?

If God exists, that is.

>>386407492
Daijoubu da. Mondai nai.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LKdmChm96A

>>386407684
It's not justice when god creates us how god wants and then punishes us for acting in the way god intended isn't justice. And if it is, then we as humans can call it shit because our perception of justice doesn't match that. And we were designed that way. Also assuming such a god exists

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>>386406726
It found other ways to go edgy.

>>386400337
Slavery

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>>386399331
>Anime aesthetics.

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>JRPG
>No mention of religion whatsoever
>Military industrial complex is the final boss

>>386407140
>>386407684

you got it wrong, a hellish existence is a natural consequence of a lack of faith

>person doesn't believe in God
>thus doesn't believe in ultimate reality/value of goodness, justice, kindness, etc
>isn't already basically living in hell

What is it with Japan and killing God? A fuckload of JRPGS end up with you killing some god-esque being

>>386407927
What if it IS justice because Satan is the one pushing us to act in unjust ways and God's strength equals Satan's?

Checkmate.

>>386408157
It's a /v/ meme, nothing more.

>>386408157
God is a sign of authority, the dream of every asian is overcoming authority, see sun wukong.

>>386408301
But Sun Wukong gets BTFO by Buddha in the end

>>386408143
I'm going to assume you're talking about the Christan God here, so correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't see why a deity is needed for some sort of universal morality. I believe that kindness and goodness matter, not because of some deity but because I'm a rational and caring human being. There have been horrible things done by both those who believe and those who don't believe in God, so it's quite clear that not even those that believe care enough to emulate the goodness they preach God has
>>386408238
Then God isn't all powerful if him and Satan are equal. If that's the case there are clearly other gods and then they have just as much legitimacy as God.

>>386406825
Why the investigation? Also is this is the police worth it?£

>>386407997
I wouldn't call that scene edgy. It was cheesy cliched "badass" stuff but it didn't feel like they were trying to make Kevin into some sort of anti-hero or something. There is some edge in Third though, don't get me wrong, the bit where Kevin tries to convince Joshua that helping him break Weissman's conditioning was just a means to an end sticks out in my mind. But it's largely justified in the end because it's all in service of portraying Kevin's self-loathing.

>>386408143
hello Dante how is Italy this time of year?

>>386407927
If a child has free will yet chose to do the right thing of their own volition, the parent would be infinitely more pleased and proud compared to simply designing them into unquestioning obedience. It's simply the ultimate test, the consequences are laid out, and you can choose to fail if you wish.

>>386408413
you mean in the beginning? or I guess you mean the end of his background story.

>>386408143
>he needs an omnipotent being of creation and destruction to tell him not to lie, cheat, rape, murder and steal

No offense, but this is merely an excuse used by people using religion as an excuse to do bad things.

>I wasn't bad, Satan told me to do it

>>386408157
>>386408301
I believe it's due to how a lot of Japanese view Christianity as a mistake and an actual invasion of Japan. So a lot of games portray the western vision of God as the villain.

>>386408143
Basically this. Hell isn't a place full of fire and brimstone that you go to after you die, it's a state of mind, a consciousness you bring upon yourself. It's death of the soul, a separation from God. If you're too wicked, hateful, and closed-off to accept God's unconditional love, then you'll suffer of your own volition. There aren't little red imps poking people in the butt with pitchforks

>>386403393
did a bird poop on him???

>>386403359
Lords of Shadow maybe ?

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>final boss thinks hes god
>turns hes just a whiny little faggot bitch who was leeching off the real god

>>386408948
It's more to do with Westerners assuming any sort of super-powerful being is "God." You want your characters to defeat a powerful threat, because it's more dramatic that way. Having the last boss be a crippled 90 year old guy in a wheelchair would be pretty anticlimactic, wouldn't it?

>>386399331
yeah i'm getting pretty bored of that cliche too

it was fresh when i was like 12 and was introduced to the idea that corrupt religious people exist but other than that it has run its course and comes off basic as fuck

>>386409012

Once you learn it, it's funny how easy it is to spot people who've done their readings compared to people just talking based on how they feel about things.

also
>>386408548

>>386405202
>>386406201
Morrowind would be a better fit. And even then religion goes beyond just the church, there's religious beliefs held by the natives, religious beliefs held by the imperial colonizers and people within the church that don't like the corruption either

>>386409443
Lets discuss if it is a trope or a cliche.

>>386399331
>Real life
>Church is evil
>god isn't real

>>386408143
>thus doesn't believe in ultimate reality/value of goodness, justice, kindness, etc

I've never understood this, can someone explain it to me? The Church is famous for child rapists. Whee I live, pastors swindle their church-goers and are multimillionaires that own parts of the country.

Why does being religious suddenly mean that all the theft and rape is completely absolved? And decent "cannot understand goodness, justice and kidness" just because they don't go to church?

You need God to tell you not to be an asshole? The problem might be you, not religion.

>>386408507
Depends on how much it is selling for. It is a ok game but not great.

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>>386399331

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>enemies that resist divine

>>386409975
It's not about following a specific church anon. The bishops, monks, priests, and pastors are just people, they sin like any other. I once knew an Orthodox monk who hid all kinds of twink porn hidden on his laptop and eventually got arrested for meth, but that's not what's important. It's about accepting God, the idea of ultimate, selfless, unconditional, and all-encompassing love into your heart, and sharing it with all those around you. The priests are just there to help those who seek guidance. You don't get into heaven because a robed man splashed some water on your head, you get in by accepting that all-encompassing love into your heart.

>>386408667
Yes, but if a parent punishes said child, they don't do so for an eternity. In addition, if the parent knew with 100% certainty what the child would do, and then punished them anyways, then they are a shitty parent

>>386400337
a monkey ripped a todlers testicales and ate it in china

monkeys are fucked up people

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>>386409806

>>386410143
>The bible goes against rape and fucking childrens, they are not going unpunished.

Thanks to the law, not religion.

>>386409975
>The Church
Don't lump the rest of Christianity in with those catholic heretics. They only started the "married to god" nonsense in the middle ages in the hopes that dying clergy would leave their land and possessions to the church. They know it's wrong yet refuse to let it go despite the fact that denying basic human nature results in awful nonsense like this.

>>386399331
>JRPG
>Church is based on an original Religion
>It's a thinly veiled version of Catholicism

Why does Japan have such a boner for the Vatican?

>>386399331
Yes, I too would rather play JRPGs to escape reality rather than face it.

>>386408667
In addition, it's not a choice. If God has 100% knowledge about everything everyone does and punishes them for choosing what God knew they would do, it's more a threat. "Give me your wallet or I'll blow your brains out," type of thing. At least then the mugger has the decency to not torment you for an eternity. How can someone actually believe that eternal punishment for temporary bad things is okay?

>>386410315
Vampire the Masquerade - Redemption actually had quite a few holy enemies after you main character gets turned vampire. Then again, nobody remembers this game.

>>386405419
Black/Matrix

>>386408667

Tests are meaningless if god is omniscient. He'll know what will happen regardless.

>>386410363
Religion is law

>>386410453
> They only started the "married to god" nonsense in the middle ages

Along with basically every other modern christian practice. Your fallacy doesn't change this.

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>>386405419
Kid Icarus Uprising.

>>386410710
You couldn't be more incorrect, especially if you're talking about the U.S.

>>386410839
Seems to be working well enough in the middle east

>>386400593
Didn't Maplestory do this?

>>386409975
The Church and God are two different things. When speaking of the Catholic Christian God, the only things required for salvation are admission of guilt, sincere regret, and doing penance. No matter what sin you commit, if you die having sincerely repented, you can enter purgatory, which will eventually get you into Heaven. Well, you also need to be baptized, usually, but it depends who you ask.

Whether or not that is fair is another question. Heaven is effectively bliss through subjugation of your will to God. The Church is made of men, and is thus flawed.

>>386410143
>The bible goes against rape
well, not exactly, no.

The Hebrew Bible aka 'Old Testament' only expects you to pay reparations to the father of a woman you rape, and then marry her.

If she's betrothed, you both die, but not because you raped her, but because you violated another man's property.

>>386399331
>real life
>church is evil

>>386410453
>They know it's wrong yet refuse to let it go despite the fact that denying basic human nature results in awful nonsense like this.

All religion does this, even non-catholic christians. Just look at abstinence education that is so wildly popular in the places with record teen pregnancies and STDs.

>>386410892
Why did you reply to me with this?

>>386410952
Only jews follow the old testament.

>>386410892
Have a (you) Mohammed

>>386410894
Yes.
Made leveling Cleric not entirely shit. Lots have done it though.

>>386409012
>>386409557
Where is this from? I'm admittedly rather unversed in religion at all but I would like to read more.

>>386409253
RIP Zero, you didn't deserve what happened to you
https://youtu.be/q8ejMZWVplk?t=2850

>>386411092
If you worship the God of Abraham and Isaac, you are a Jew

>>386409012
>There aren't little red imps poking people in the butt with pitchforks
Now that's disappointing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F7QP56SeeuQ

>>386400593
>healing hurts undead
>poison heals undead
>player can get a perk that makes them undead and this will apply to them

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>get poisoned
>don't lose HP
>stats slowly drop instead

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>>386410512
Because its aesthetic as fuck

>>386411245
Jokes on you, i workship apollo.

>>386411092
Not really, modern day Christians such as yourself just like to pick and choose as the day suits you.

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>>386399331

>>386410512
It's exotic for them.

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>>386405543
BY AZURA BY AZURA BY AZURA

>>386411279
this is why I love final fantasy :^3

>>386411434
Because the bible was written by a bunch of people and translated a thousand times ?

>>386411608
And? It's either a holy, infallible book, or it's fiction for young adults.

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>>386405829
>you are part of God's fever dream
>you kill god

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>>386411245
It's more complicated than that, I'm afraid. Jesus said:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

Matthew 5:17-18

This is not, contrary to appearances, a statement that means that every inch of the Hebrew Bible is to be followed, but it is nevertheless clear that the HB remains relevant for Christians as well as Jews.

>>386411130
Me personally, I have a degree in The Humanities, so I studied the bible more from a historical and philosophical perspective (as opposed to reading it because of my faith [I don't have one]).

Ideally you'd read the Greeks first, but you could skip to St. Augustine in the medieval period, then Boethius' 'Consolation of Philosophy', some Thomas Aquinas, and Dante's Divine Comedy for some poetry (Dorothy Sayer's translation or don't bother).

That would constitute a good though extremely minimal baseline of early Christian philosophical thought, all of which remains relevant today.

Of course it wouldn't hurt to actually read the bible itself, though this can be an extremely grueling task. Ideally you'd get a study bible such as the New Oxford Annotated, because those are focused on being as accurate as possible, as opposed to trying to present the most convincing narrative. They also provide historical context for passages and so forth.

It's a ton of work, but the Hebrew and Christian bible (OT/NT) are THE defining texts of western civilization. No single text will make you more knowledgeable about western civ than them.

>>386412268
Intersting.
Have you read the Quran too?

>wrpg
>there are many gods
>all of them are assholes and spend most of their time fighting with each other and trying to gain status rather than doing anything productive
>your god will smite you with lightning if you bother them too many times
>you can survive this with sufficient lightning mitigation, a life-saving item, or if you're currently being eaten by a monster
>your god will try again with a fucking disintigration beam because he's just that much of an asshole
>you can survive this with disintigration mitigation, a life-saving item that didn't get used the first time, or if you're currently being eaten by a monster that had lightning resistance and survived the first smiting
>your god will express disbelief that you managed to survive two smitings
>if you're on the final level of the game he'll sic his minions on you because not only is he an asshole, he's also retarded since you're literally trying to give him what he wants at that point unless you change alignments somehow and ascend on another god's altar
nethack was fun

>>386412562
Not even close to the extent that I have the bible, no, but it was part of my education. I've also read a tiny bit of Islamic philosophy mostly from when they were doing us all a huge favor and preserving the Greek philosophers, such as Ibn Tufayl's 'Hayy ibn Yaqdhan' (I had to look at my bookshelf to figure out how to spell that, gonna be honest). Neat story about a dude raised by a deer or gazelle or something I don't remember exactly, and it effectively works as a from-nothing account of God.

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>dad game
>get divorced

>>386407140
Your version of good and justice is perverse and not the original.
You twist things to suit your purposes.

>>386413257
justice is subjective, god is inherently unjust from the perspective of mankind

>>386408143
>>386409012
>>386409557
> 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
But yeah you're right is is easy to see who has actually done their reading and who is just pretending to be a knowledgeable bible scholar on a japanese animation forum.

>>386407179
say cold steel and not trails faggot, trails usually refers to the trails in the sky series, AKA the superior LoH games

Any game where the final boss is a cute girl?

>>386413509
>PS2 days
>cold steel

>>386413257
And your version assumes humans can understand something that is infinite and beyond the universe and its laws. And that humans have never, ever, messed up translating or copying the rules between languages and versions for thousands of years. I'll take my chances on humans being bad at being perfect, and just go on the assumption that God isn't real, or if it is, isn't a dick

>>386413360
>justice is subjective

well no, that's the problem. If God really existed, then Justice would be completely objective. It's just one of those philosophical requirements of God's existence, unfortunately. I know that sounds dumb, you'll just have to take my word for it.

>>386413405
Welcome to day one of scriptural interpretation, my friend. You're only about 3000 years late to the party.

>>386410617
I remember it. The atmosphere was decent but I didn't like the gameplay at all.

It's ironic how this is somehow touted as a trope of jrpgs when the quintessential jrpg has the exact opposite of it.

>>386410617
>>386413625
oh uh I just realised that description could work on either VtM game so I'm going to clarify that yes I'm talking about the isometric one

>>386399331
I wish more games had that plot.
I don't buy that "suffering exists to make happiness better" bullshit, God's evil.

>>386413405
>biblical literalism
kek

>>386412268
>the Hebrew and Christian bible (OT/NT) are THE defining texts of western civilization.
This, I constantly hear and see phrases and imagery in movies that my atheist friends don't notice because they're not knowledgeable about the history.

>>386406735
Not really. His 'god' status is a farce made up by the church. In reality he was just a talented summoner. He's not responsible for creating the world or overseeing its people and sins.

By the time you fight him he's basically just a magical .exe file.

>>386413730
>The things I take seriously are literal, but the things I don't agree with are poetic

>>386413578
>your version assumes humans can understand something that is infinite and beyond the universe and its laws.
I never made that assumption.
I only know that his ways and understanding are beyond mine and I will spend eternity learning about him. The most interesting thing in the universe is God because he has no end to his complexity. Imagine spending eternity with our finite world, we would exhaust all knowledge and loose all meaning.

>>386414040
fake believer
you didn't capitalize Him

>>386413676
Which one is that?

>>386414040
You need to prove God is infinite if you make the claim that God is.
>Lose all meaning
I'm sorry you feel that way, but unfortunately your life doesn't go on forever simply because your feelings are hurt that life is finite.

>>386413795
Precisely. The degree to which these narratives have penetrated our collective cultural... consciousness? is unparalleled.

And that doesn't even take into account the texts that came after, like Dante's 'Divine Comedy' and Milton's 'Paradise Lost', which have muddled the mixture immensely.

If asked, I'm pretty confident most people would tell you that the Serpent in Eden was Satan, or a standin for him. Not the case. The Satan of the Hebrew Bible was not 'the devil' by any stretch of the imagination, and he certainly wasn't in Eden. Barely mentioned at all. Most important appearance there is in the Book of Job, where he tests the titular character's faith on God's behalf.

Milton is to blame for the common belief that Satan is the one who tempted Adam and Eve, although that isn't to say that Christians weren't reading Satan back into the Hebrew Bible before that.

>>386414249
Dragon Quest of course.
>saves your game
>resurrects you
>cures you
>uncurses you
Pretty nice guys.
Maybe the church being evil came about as a twist from them being good in Dragon Quest or something like that.

>>386399331
*tips bible*

>>386413509
I was talking about Sky, retard. And the series in general is called Trails, it doesn't specifically refer to the Sky games. Don't give me that horseshit about calling the series "LoH" as you so fucking idiotically have done. Trails is just a sub-series of LoH. I bet you don't even know what fucking Gagharv is. Calling Trails LoH is as dumb as calling it Dragon Slayer.

>>386400254
Hey monkeys don't normally take baths

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>>386404379
>Call of Life: Modern Lordfare

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>>386403393
>Boss turns your whole party undead then uses cure all

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>>386414530
I think that the entire origin of the "party kills god" trope in the popular consciousness is FF6. Kefka isn't really god, but his sprite as the final boss looks like something divine.

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>western fps
>villains are white supremacists