What made Team Fortress 2 so much more fun than Overwatch?

didn't fall for the diversity meme

TF2 is shit, TFC was the only good game in the series. The source engine is fucking garbage.
>inb4 quake retards
Original one was shit too.

Fun and casual gameplay

>>386306145

MOVEMENT MECHANICS
O
V
E
M
E
N
T

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more gamemodes and the customization of loadouts (and by this i mean being encouraged to try other weapons than the stock and get good at those)

i guess there also isn't a "press Q to die" button that comes into play as often

it was (was) an actual completed product with high quality map designs and carefully balanced classes with the ability to add custom content and servers

lots of factors
>healing is reduced by damage which makes pockets actually killable and pushes to be made through raw damage instead of just picks
>health pools aren't incredibly insane
>most classes have a decently high skill cap and there is no such thing as a hard counter allowing you to carry a whole team if you are good enough

>>386307149
oh yea and the maps aren't made by toddlers
Who the FUCK though it was a good idea to have a flanking route AFTER the choke point
fucking morons

>>386307149
pretty sure sniper hard counters the fuck out of heavy

>>386307304
sniper is the only class in the game I would say that needs more than one class to take on effectively
even an engie nest can be killed by a single demo
depends on the map mostly though

>>386307239
Its not the attackers flank route.
Terrible design philosophy but they decided attackers have to be funneled.

The colour palette in tf2 isn't an over saturated mess for starters.

>>386306145
Playerbase isn't obsessed with opening loot crates which are more easily obtained by winning

People only want to win because they have a gambling problem. It's the same problem LoL has.

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>>386306285
>black disabled man
>twink gayboy
>australian
>a lesbian(pryo)
>manbaby retard
>no diversity

Dedicated servers with custom content and rulesets

Overwatch is fun, but you can only play Temple of Anubis so many times before you want to kill yourself. In TF2 I could at least pop into a MARIO_KART or surf server or something to fuck around a bit if I ever got bored with the vanilla game

>>386306145
One word: Moddability.

Overwatch is so limited with game modes and maps. The new server browser kinda adds a little more flavor to game modes, but it's still strictly adjusting to already existing game mechanics.

>>386306145
Yes we get it tf2 is better than ow now can you fags stop

>>386306145
Higher skill ceiling.
More content.
Better design all around.
>>386306285
This too.
>>386306326
>being a contrarian

>>386307304
>pretty sure sniper hard counters the fuck out of heavy
You don't understand the definition of "hard counter" if you think that.
Heavy can kill Sniper if he is more skilled or lucky, therefore Sniper is not Heavy's hard counter.

A hard counter is a strategy that totally shuts down another strategy (Scissors>paper).
A soft counter is a strategy that has an advantage against another strategy in an equal skill level (Pyro>Spy).

>>386306145
You were younger and less jaded.

>>386306145
Dedicated servers with high player counts and many regulars.
You arent just playing with a random team of matchmaking, you are playing with friends you play daily
The maps are better, there are a bunch of custom maps and a shitload of fun potential
OW went too hard for the "competitive e-sport" side of things.
Funny thing that the only game that ever competed with Valve's games on the customization and creativity of user made content was Warcraft 3. You would think blizz knew better, but they didnt.

>>386308084
i know you're pretending to be retarded, but some people might believe you
>>>>>twink gayboy
Scout does nothing but hit on women in his downtime?
>manbaby retard
Heavy has a Russian literature doctorate, it's just that English is his second language

>>386306145
the fact that it came out 10 years ago before any such thing even existed

>>386308298

True story, In my 3000 hours of TF2 all of it was spent on one map - 2fort.

I cant even stomach OW for more than 30 minutes at a time.

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>>386311570
>Funny thing that the only game that ever competed with Valve's games on the customization and creativity of user made content was Warcraft 3. You would think blizz knew better, but they didnt.
That was old, good Blizzard before the Activision takeover, as opposed to Nu-Blizzard.

Everything made by Blizzard prior to the Activision takeover was golden. Then it all fell to shit once Bobby "we want to take the fun out of making video games" Kotick took the reins.

>>386311585
>pretending to be retarded
Is that what you think jokes are?

>>386311585
Scout is deficient in testosterone

tf2 (in its prime) was a game that had a strong core game surrounded by a cozy and creative community.

>>386311680
>2fort
I know it has its upsides, but why limit yourself to one map for so long?

>>386311818

I dont know. I liked how small it was, i think. The fighting almost never stopped on 2fort.

Plus, once I played it enough I good enough at it that I just liked it. I didnt really limit myself, I just never felt the need to leave it.

A testament to the perfectly designed gameplay, I guess.

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>>386311778
still is though
The community is still extremely creative, and there are definitely still comfy community servers out there

TF2's at its lowest point right now since it's the longest wait we've ever had for a major update, but you should see how it'll go off if the update releases and is good

>>386311725
Feels like the same thing happened to enix with the square enix merger

>>386312027
>the perfectly designed gameplay
Ehh as much as I love TF2, the class balance has some deficiencies, and the map balance of 2fort is horrible. It's too cramped for a good player to show off their rocket jumping/dodging skill.

I'd like to see Valve do a rework to 2fort like they did with Nuke to make it a bit less cramped, while still maintaining that "close mid fighting" deal.

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>>386306404
>he saved my shitty meme
Love ya anon

>>386312085
Absolutely, it's these fucking fatcat crypto Jews ruining everything in the industry with their greed for gold

TF2 is fun even if you don't win.
There's a reason why 2fort and Hightower ended up as deathmatch maps and some people would go "don't cap" in koth. These instances wouldn't happen in Overwatch.
I'd also argue that Overwatch doesn't let you freely change classes due to the ultimate mechanics where it charges up over the course of multiple lives. In TF2, you lose your uber when you die, so you can change at will without thinking that it's a waste of your time to do so.

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While we're o the topic of map design, post your favourite maps, niggers.

My favourite is cp_"insanely fuckable" Steel

>>386312083
>TF2's at its lowest point right now since it's the longest wait we've ever had for a major update

That and the MM update kinda sucked imo. I used to play Tf2 all the time, but the matchmaking update rubbed me the wrong way and I slowed down.

12 v 12 with 9 characters, 0 bad choices.
vs
6 v 6 with 25 characters, 18 or so bad choices.

>>386306145
Nothing, it's not more fun anymore, so bloated by terrible cosmetics and ruined weapons, Overwatch is a breath of fresh air.

Now launch TF2? Simplicity.

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>>386312459
Valve made the single biggest mistake they ever made when they chose to develop the Casual system (which nobody asked for) and replace Quickplay/the Valve server browser with it.

They should have spent that time actually working on the fucking competitive mode they promised the community, rather than casual/server browser when quickplay already worked perfectly.

Whoever came up with that idea should be scolded. Especially the dumb shit where you got penalized for leaving a CASUAL PUB GAME.

At least most of the mistakes they made are fixed since then, but we're still missing autobalance, spectate, team scramble, and joining directly into your friends' games.

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>playing spy
>turbine
>ruining some razorback sniper's day with basic bitch revolver
>decide to fuck with him without outright killing him
>he can never find me
>this goes on for a few minutes
>he switches to spectate
>then switches back

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>>386312545
okay I wasn't expecting it this time

>>386312665
>and ruined weapons
???
>simplicity
Simplicity doesn't keep a game going for 9 years.
Simplicity is code word for "quickly becomes boring because you've seen it all before".

This game is mad comfy. You can really just sit back and relax cuz matches be like what 15-20 minutes?

Matches on overwatch be 4-8 minutes and its not comfy at all

>>386312697
>>he switches to spectate
spectate got removed though?

>>386312545
Like clockwork.

>>386312912
this was a while ago, he did kill me but I was laughing too hard to care

>>386312836
They introduced a small pool of fun new weapons, then introduced more and more and started fucking with their stats until most of them were either boring sidegrades or completely useless.

I want my Baby Face Blaster back.

I got into TF2 during the Australian Christmas update, that was the golden age for me, played the fuck out of it. I don't have that kind of fun anymore, I want something more modern, and Overwatch does that for me.

>>386311748
>Runs super fucking fast
>Able to fuck any chick, cause he is literally gods gift to woman
>Knows his abilities well, so well in fact he can double jump
>Low testosterone

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>>386312545
u fukin got me mate

>>386307813
Tf2 makes you buy keys to open crates with randomized loot and you need to buy weapons.

Overwatch gives you crates just by playing and it's all cosméticos stuff. How is that worse?

>>386312195
>rocket jumping/dodging skill.
Honestly TF2 isnt a rocket jumping game, and i doubt that when they designed it they had more than 1 bounce in mind.
Rocket Jumping working the way it does now is one of the biggest reasons why soldier is grossly overpowered. But nerfing him would create massive butthurt and kill the game. He honestly should have as much HP as a scout, given his mobility (less self inflicted damage, tho)

>>386313007
Oh? You want BFB back?

Well fuck you.

I want the caber back more than anything. It's not fair.

>>386313160
Cosmetic* yay spic keyboard.

>>386313195
That nerf baffled the fuck out of me when I came back, just, fucking why? It's such a dumb weapon, a troll weapon, it was completely harmless and non viable.

At least the Blaster was understandably kinda broken.

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>>386313050
>can literally fuck any chick
>every woman hes been with is a slut and thats shown with the "Fried chicken tramp"
>Has to take dating lessions from spy to get his dream girl because hes a fucking asshole 98% of the time shes watching so shes not interested in him
>God's gift to woman
what a fucking joke

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>>386306145
-Better maps in general
-Movement doesn't feel too sluggish even on characters like Heavy
-Better sound effects
-Characters are more memorable
-Each classes ain't too shy on taunting each other
-The ability to make custom maps
-More control in terms of making a server

I can't compare the two in terms of gameplay that much since TF2 is class based while OW is heroes based

>>386306145
no gays

>>386313403
>IS HE FROM NEW ZELAND
christ it was foreshadowed years in advance

>>386313007
>then introduced more and more and started fucking with their stats until most of them were either boring sidegrades or completely useless
That's wrong, I want you to give me specific examples.
>BFB
while I agree that they nerfed it too hard and it's UP now, it's nowhere near completely useless either. It's only slightly worse than stock.
>more modern
What? Is this code for saying "I like casualized games and have shit taste"?

What does "more modern" actually mean in this context? Video games aren't cars, the only objective advancement in games over time is graphical fidelity.
Tetris is from decades ago and yet it still has a better gameplay loop than many AAA games. Just like TF2 still has a far better skill ceiling, amount of content, and better general design than Overshit.

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>>386313160
>and you need to buy weapons
No you don't dumbass, you get them as a drop "just by playing". How about you play the game you're criticizing before you fucking talk?

>>386313653
>Replying to a phone posting spic
Just ignore the single digit IQ retard.

>>386306145
biggest reasons
1. 12v12 instead of 6v6
2. player-controlled servers

Playerbase.
TF2 was filled with decent and respectable people before free to play happened.
Overwatch was Blizzdrones, esports autists, and waifufags from day 1.

1.The community servers are great and have made some great things like modded gamemodes and things like that.
2.The trading system, you can make some money from it and you don't have to pay full price for everything, not only that, but you can choose to get the exact item you want.
3.It's fun, Overwatch takes itself too seriously for my taste.

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>>386313350
>it was completely harmless and non viable
No it wasn't you absolute retard.
Who the fuck thinks a weapon that can kill 4/9 classes in a single hit is "completely harmless and non viable"?

A sticky jumper demo could put 2 stickies on the ground, fly into the enemy Medic at Mach 8, and kill him in two hits and there was nothing the Medic could do.

The only reason it wasn't ran in comp play was because they banned it. And before the nerf it was Demo's most used melee in pubs. How the fuck is that "non viable"?

Don't post retarded opinions like "XD CABER WAS COMPLETELY HARMLESS" ever again, thanks. It offends me to think I share /v/ with people this stupid.

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>People still believe pyro is a girl.

>>386313160
Get the fuck out of here wetback.

>>386311725
>before the Activision takeover
It wasn't a takeover, it's a partnership. It's called Activision Blizzard, not Activision's Blizzard.

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>>386313915
this is clearly a vagina anon

>>386313517
that's fanart iirc

Fundamentally different and superior gameplay. Overwatches gameplay is overdesigned/overconstructed, very restricted to the massed-team-fight mold. The level of 'rock-paper-scissors' hard-countering and general goofiness of the character ability sets and stats severely limits the ability of high-skill or experienced players to genuinely 'outplay' others.

The one thing Overwatch did so right, was really just recognizing and avoiding TF2s one fatal gameplay error - weapon loadouts vs singular class/characters with absolutely definite abilities/stats. Valve didn't go this way because they valued the brilliant characters they'd developed too much, but it is much better for the gameplay, at the meta levels as well (much better for the player experience to not have to worry about getting weapons to unlock gameplay).

>>386311725
seriously, how do you go from one of the most heavily modded and moddable games ever, to a game that doesnt even allow custom servers? Even sc2 was better than this shit, though sc2 was also 7 fucking years ago. The game industries in a rut, and I think the only cures a good crash.

>>386313986
I get what you mean, and I used the incorrect terminology, but it is, functionally, Activision's Blizzard. Bobby Kotick, who prior to the takeover headed Activision, now runs the whole operation as CEO. Most of Blizzard's original creative staff has also quit or been laid off or retired.

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>>386313915
>People still believe pyro isnt a genderless alien here to slowly spread deadly air changing spores that can only be activated when he plunges the world into a hellfire terraforming the planet for his people to colonize

>>386313653
I played tf2 for 1300 hours, that doesnt change the fact that overwatch is more generous with drops.

Don't you think the whole tf2, csgo and dota crate/key system would be worse for a gambling addict? You can even sell or buy them for real money.

I enjoyed tf2 but after that many hours it gets boring, and you have to trade if you want an specific weapon without depending on rng, it's easy to do but still.

>>386313772
You're the retard ignoring a valid point and recurring to ad hominem insults.

>>386314262
>1300 hours
Fucking casual faggot.Your opinions are now invalidated.

>>386313832
Also, I forgot to mention that you can change your loadout and play the way you want to.

map design

>>386313374
>Has to take dating lessions from spy
This is normal father and son bonding

>>386314340
Lol k.

>>386314220
>People still believe pyro isnt two(2) kids standing one over the other

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>>386314220

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>>386314097
>seriously, how do you go from one of the most heavily modded and moddable games ever, to a game that doesnt even allow custom servers?

It's all the fault of the man I posted, Bobby Kotick. He's enormously greedy for money (when told that his company made a record profit, his first response to everyone in the room was that games should cost more money), and gamers being able to make their own content without paying for it would go against his Jewish nature.

You see, the enormously popular mod Dota came out of WC3's map editor. Icefrog actually approached Blizzard to get them to hire him to make a Dota game, but Bobby Kotick knocked him back. So Icefrog went to Valve instead, who funded him, and that's how Dota 2 was taken from under Blizzard's Jewish nose. Blizzard were fucking furious about it, sued, and lost the case on everything but the name, and thus they missed out on the MOBA train and had to make the inferior Heroes of the Storm.

And that's why Activision-Blizzard no longer encourages or allows modding of their games, in case somebody has some fun that they can't charge them for.

>>386314262
>that doesnt change the fact that overwatch is more generous with drops.
Hey, you stupid spic, for a start I don't give much of a fuck about cosmetics.
Overwatch isn't """"generous"""", you pay at least 40 fucking clapdollars for the privilege of playing.

TF2 gives you 10 weapons per week. That's contrary to the lie you told where you said that it makes you buy weapons. Stop lying to us and go do some menial work, you lazy spic.

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In all seriousness Tf2 is just a party game and there is hardly any teamwork going on whatsoever in games. While Overwatch focuses heavily on team plays but does not tolerating any goofing around. So saying which game is better all depends on your value's of fun.
Tl;dr: Stop comparing them

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>>386313165
>and i doubt that when they designed it they had more than 1 bounce in mind.
yeah because explosive jumping and physics abuse wasn't a massive part of tfc or anything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_qqFQF2p4M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI840bR3HYc
go back to r/tf2 shitter

>>386306145
A lot of stuff.

OW adopts a lot of MOBA/MMO tropes which incentivize team coordination at the expense of rewarding individual player skill.

Every character has match ups they're nearly helpless in. It's much harder to pub stomp when DVA or Winston can get in your face and put you in a situation where it's almost impossible for you to win the DPS race. Big health pools, cool downs on abilities, and hard counters make the game much more dependent on working with your team to produce favorable situations rather than playing really well individually.

Better maps.

It's easier to find laid back matches with player counts big enough that there's little pressure. Matches are longer and you rarely feel as helpless for reasons mentioned above.

TF2 writing is good, OW writing is bland pedestrian garbage.

>>386313403
Agreed, Overwatch is a reflection of modern trends, a diverse MOBA roster combined with the TF2 formula.
It's like comparing Doom and Halo.

>>386313563
It's been ages since I played much, so a lot of it has left me, but off the top of my head the Degreaser and Axtinguisher were given a hard pass. I could go through the weapons one by one to see what I remember right or wrong but I'm honestly too lazy.

The Baby Face Blaster feels like too much risk for too little reward, it's only consistently useful if you are extremely good at dodging most damage, the drain on hit is just too damn high.

More modern, as in a game that takes the TF2 formula and does something fresh with it, like Siege does with Counter Strike. They both appeal to me for the same reasons, they feel smoother, look better, take a MOBA like roster and focus as much on smart ability usage as gunplay.

Sure, they're a little casualised, I'm not and have never been a hardcore competitive player, when it comes to shooters I want something that rewards skill, without being overly punishing if I'm not at my best.

I don't have the skill or patience for Counter Strike, but Siege? It's a slower game where teamwork feels more essential, Overwatch is the same, you're never expected and rarely encouraged to go on a solo streak, you're usually punished for it, and I like that, teamwork feels rewarding when it works.

So I guess it boils down to "I like the modern trend of less hardcore titles.", even a middling player can contribute in Siege and Overwatch, when they'll just get demolished in Counter Strike, or barely do much in TF2.

>>386314901
>tf2
>writing

It's been a while since I played, there's a story besides meet the [insert class here] videos?

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>>386314762
>and there is hardly any teamwork going on whatsoever in games
wrong
https://youtu.be/xO-8skO6Ir0?t=561

Besides, calling TF2 a "party game" is dumb. When have you ever seen someone playing TF2 at a party?

>>386314756
Lol I'm lazy and yet you complain that you have to pay for a game, what you said doesn't negate what I wrote un my previous post though.

The answer is player-made maps for TF2. OW can't ever compete with that.

>>386313165
>Honestly TF2 isnt a rocket jumping game
That's rubbish. Their entire promotion of Soldier was rocket jumping.
https://youtu.be/a7ozG-YNLNg?t=181

Also you neglected to mention dodging.

>>386315049
There are really good comics, actually. The comics are probably better than the game.

>>386315049
theres a huge comic strip valve has been making over the years. the game and the comic have parted ways in terms of canonicity such as the heavy being a big loud dumb brute in game while actually being a quiet and reserved phd weilding russian mercenary.

>>386314756
>TF2 gives you 10 weapons per week
actually you can even get -rare drops- in tf2, some items can be worth 100s of dollars and those can only happen in drops.

items like collector's chemistry sets, very rare, hugely expensive but you can only get them in a random drop.

I'd also like to add that since overwatch's cosmetics ARE NOT TRADABLE they are worthless to other players.
where tf2's cosmetics are tradable and have actual value, if you can't trade/sell it, it's worthless.

also as far as i know, you need a separate account to play on consoles with overwatch, so you'll have to buy the items twice to get them, on the other hand tf2 on console is in the same state as it was back in 2007.

overwatches cosmetics should just have been an one time purchase for the skins you'd want and not crates.

>>386315097
I'm not complaining, you dumb fuck, I'm correcting your lie. You SAID >>386313160 "you get crate drops just by playing Overwatch, but you have to buy weapons in TF2"

Which is FACTUALLY incorrect for either one or the other, no matter which way you spin the wording. Try and keep your lie straight, you filthy fucking flabby bean eater.

>>386315246
>parted ways in terms of canonicit
not true.

>heavy being a big loud dumb brute
a mann can have fun and be smart at the same time. again you're wrong.

>quiet and reserved
he isn't during fights.

>>386311439
If you need luck to not get fucked up by another class then that means they probably hard counter you.

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post deathcams

>>386315112
Yea, Overwatch can't compete with Snowplow.

>>386315370
I said that you need to trade to get an specific weapon if you don't want to depending on rng. Why so aggresive though? Did your mother get fucked by a spic?

>>386315271

The only reason why I replied was because a guy said that overwatch would be worse for gambling addict when in fact tf2 is worse because there's actual money involved thanks to the marketing.

>>386315813
snowplow is a pretty bad map tbqh

>>386315860

thanks to the market*

>>386313849
t. assblasted sniper main

>>386315873
I know, that's the joke.

Community content is a mixed bag, I don't think it's fair to point at it as a true positive. Sure, the community made some good maps, and some good weapons. But they also made some bad maps, some terrible weapons and the majority of the garbage cosmetics that have turned this into an optimisation nightmare.

My poor fucking CPU.

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>>386313915
I'd rather have that than people believing that the pyro is a gay man because of a easily refutable Game Theory video. Half of that fucking video can be destroyed just by remembering that the gloves are manufactured to have the ring and pointer fingers the same length.

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>>386313915
>>386314220
Pyro is Abraham Lincoln. This is not a joke. His backpack is not fuel (all his flamers visibly carry their own), it is the missing Radigan-built life extender (three were made, two are otherwise accounted for).

>>386316163
the whole glove thing in general is a joke because they might not even fit hand right

>>386306145
Overwatch was designed to be accessible and arcadey, meaning that it's very easy to get into but there's not enough substance to keep momentum. TF2 has far more to it to mess around with and experiment.

>>386316163
You do know scout freaks out in meet the pyro and calls him a 'he'. This isn't some shitty youtubers opinion.

>>386306145
>good map design, maps have several routes instead of a single route filled with chokepoints
>no hard counters, it's not fun being killed by someone and not being able to do anything about it
>classes that have high skill ceiling that allows people put time at getting good
>character design and offensive banter
>lore, "meet the" videos had a lot of small details if was fun to pick on (like that meet the sniper video where he has cut model of citizen class in his car or that engies campfire is burning sniper in mee the engineer, or that video before meet the engineer that was hyping up the update) as opposed to cartoons that are pretty pixar pictures that demonstrate character abilities
>it's less casual, you have to manage your health when rocket jumping as soldier as opposed to just pushing a button and flying or putting a mine and mine jumping without any damage
>weapon variety, every character had 3 weapons and most of them had a taunt that can kill + limited ammo
>actual content instead of skins
>mods
>dedicated servers
>it's main selling point wasn't bland waifus which created community that doesn't consists of horny kids
>actual balancing instead of meta
Did I forget anything?

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>>386316280
Why would it be so big though? I think the backpack is there because otherwise it would look weird, and do you really think he can fire it for so long with that tiny gas tank in his gun?

>>386315070
Yeah those are players who all want to play the game to win and coordinate, however if you join a game whether its casual or competitive, people just run around doing there own thing. You cant expect a game where you have joke weapons to be taken seriously unless you give it a competitive vibe, which tf2 fails to do.

>>386316067
the cosmetics are the only reason this game still gets "updates"

also, if your pc can't run a 10year old game, it's your own fault.

>>386314262
>Don't you think the whole tf2, csgo and dota crate/key system would be worse for a gambling addict? You can even sell or buy them for real money.
Exactly, if you want a certain item you can just save up some items and sell them or if you're tired of the game you can earn some money by selling valuable items (if you have any) or yes, gamble, I know people who earn hundreds of dollars just by gambling in CS GO. Shitzard wants you to either spend money on crates hoping you will get what you want or be patient and hope that you will get it in the next crate.

>>386315860
>I said that you need to trade to get an specific weapon if you don't want to depending on rng
What you fucking said is "you need to buy weapons". Stop trying to revise history when we can SEE your lie >>386313160 clear as day, you dumb stinky spic.
>Why so aggresive though? Did your mother get fucked by a spic?
No, not at all. It's just that I can smell your sweaty body from this side of the screen. In combination with lies that generally makes people pretty aggressive.

>>386315813
90% of Overwatch's official maps are literally Snowplow-tier, or worse.

>Skill cap
>Individuals can heavily carry entire teams
>Movement mechanics
>Fun servers
>Fun mods, not Blizz """Custom""" servers
>Bigger then 6+ team size for pubs, meaning a few members of your team can be Brazilian and you still win
>Loadouts + class variety
>Actual cosmetics you can mix and match.
>Not super politically correct and not super multi kukti outside of the Demo
>Character personalities. Classes actually banter and insult call each-other fat and virgins. Instead of Overwatch """""banter"""""

>>386315551
I said SKILL or luck, stupid.

>>386317087
>outside of the Demo
stfu, demo is a Scottish gentleman.

>>386306145
The only fun things in TF2 are 2fort and Turbine.

Race-against-time objective maps that force you to use teamwork instead of letting it happen naturally are what Overwatch's maps and TF2's shitmaps share in common. Overwatch needs a Turbine.

>>386306285
It fell for the diversity of mechanics meme.
Feels like the only crazy shit that can get pulled in that game is if you let programmed action do it for you.

>>386317374
It being TF2 and then "that game" being OW.

>>386316948
No you fucking moron, it's Source's lack of proper multithreading, combined with the bloat of cosmetics.

I can run L4D2 at max settings, 1080p at a perfect 60fps, that game is more graphically advanced in every damn way, and more hectic, not dropping a single frame in the middle of a chaotic crescendo event with explosives and molotovs going off.

TF2 meanwhile is all over the place, sometimes sticking to a rock solid 60, sometimes fluctuating to 35-45 when something vaguely interesting happens.

If my PC can't run a ten year old game now, when it used to run it just fine BEFORE I got a dedicated graphics card, it's the fucking games fault.

>>386317080
Numbani is the only map I can't stand, everything else is okay to fine.

>>386315189
Soldier's infobox on the class selection screen literally tells you to rocket jump as the first bullet point.

>>386317219
I'm pretty sure they actually made him Black because a Drunk Scotsman was a bit too stereotypical and actually might make some people buthurt. Outside of that valve is pretty fine they have cosmetics which are pretty much Nazi uniforms and hardly ever censor any names so call yourself Kike killer 666 or something

>>386316601
The closed captions has Scout referring to the Pyro as both he and she

>>386316995

>>386314262
"I enjoyed tf2 but after that many hours it gets boring, and you have to trade if you want an specific weapon without depending on rng, it's easy to do but still."

Lol ok buddy it was fun and I knew you wanted to start shit since your first post but I'm ending our discussion here. I might had tried to discuss with you if you at least tried to be more civil but it's not even worth trying now.

>>386316981
But you really have to get lucky, and some of them are really hard to get with how little most drops are valued. In overwatch there's a smaler chance to get a repeated item, and repeated ones give an acceptable ammount of coins to buy the one you want.

>>386317219
Don't sugarcoat, he's a black Scottish cyclops, an abomination
There's more fucking sea monsters in the great Loch Ness than the likes of him

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>>386317363
epic bait my friend

>>386317487
post specs ragefag

Reminder that OW has done more in its 1.5 years of life than TF2 ever has in any year of its existence.

>>386316981
>>386317643
I'm not blinding defending blizzard though, I used to play heartstone but got sick because that one is basically pay to win.

And you're right that beign able too sell them for real money is nice, I bought tf2 for $10 and made $60 selling in-game items, just saying it could be worse for people with gambling problems or no self control IMO.

>>386316905
>unless you give it a competitive vibe, which tf2 fails to do
That's also wrong, all Casual games now have a Competitive format, and there is a dedicated Competitive mode too. You don't know what you're talking about and I doubt you played the game post-MyM

>>386306145
Movement
Overwatch feels loose and janky just moving around
TF2's characters feel solid

>>386317951
>done more
what does this even mean

>>386317958
Fuck. blindly*

>>386317576
actually in their agreements you agree not to call yourself such things but they don't monitor anything, if a scandal came out, they could just pull out the "it was against our policies" like they did with the gambling websites

>>386306145
Pretty well balanced
Also random crits are FUN

>>386317760
https://youtu.be/mlypMpQ5X7A?t=2m1s
plenty of different colors

>>386318052
Is that sarcasm? ramdom crits are bullshit.

Does Overwatch have air strafing?

>>386318039
Pretty much,it wouldn't be that hard to just implement a censor on the word nigger or something. I think they don't really care unless it gets a ton of reports

>>386318025
t. austist

>>386317927
AMD A8-5600k
8gb RAM
GTX 1050 2gb

A weakass APU ran TF2 perfectly fine when I got it six years ago.

>>386318269
No way fag

>>386318268
Random crits are fair and balanced.

>>386318336
That's correct but what does that have to do with anything?

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_______ __ ___ ____

>>386317643
>But you really have to get lucky,
Just like in OW where if you want an EXACT legendary skin for EXACT hero you have to be lucky.
>and repeated ones give an acceptable ammount of coins to buy the one you want.
And from the repeated ones in tf2 you can craft metal which you can use as universal currency to buy items from other players.

>>386318269
>air strafing
No, you use a jetpack to fly with Pharah which is the closest character in terms of gameplay to soldier.

>>386318425
ALCOHOL IS ONE LOVE

>>386317964
Please stop Just because there is a fancy menu doesn't mean the game is now competitive. It's still 12v12 and has poor match making and balancing. Have this yt vid since its clear youve never played the actual game. https://youtu.be/PGRiHnEtuzw?t=176

>>386312667

You really have to remember that Quickplay was fucking despised at the time. Everybody wanted it gone. But now that it is, an entire community is pretending that hindsight isn't 20/20

>>386318348
>cpu released in 2012
>plays game that's being updated in 2017
lol

>>386317958
>just saying it could be worse for people with gambling problems or no self control IMO.
Its not fault of the developer that a person has a gambling problem, just like you wouldn't blame supermarket for selling alcohol to and alcoholic.

>>386317951
Explain. Certainly there is less content, 3 heroes in a year (2 of which are useless) and, how many? 2 maps? which are bad anyway. But there is shitloads of skins to sell crates.

>>386318467
What I'm trying to say is that it's much easier to get legendary skins and even easier rare or common ones. Legendaries only cost 1000 coins which are pretty easy to get from drops and repeated items. If I wanted to get an unusual hat or something I would have to trade a lot to be able to afford one. Hat's were easier but it ends up taking more time in the end, and you still need to find someone selling.

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>>386316726
That is Greys modern life extender (which he originally invented himself). Pyros may not have been updated since it was originally constructed. It also may be opeprating on entirely different principles (Redmond and Blutarchs did not require Australium, as far as we know, and also did not restore youth, literally just held off death with targeted electric shocks, leaving their users as basically literal living mummies).

Here's the other piece of the puzzle, the list of the original three Radigan life extenders - the first two for Redmond and Blutarch, and a third built for an unknown party - built on April 14th. The day before Lincoln was assassinated IRL (April 15th, 1865). Lincoln, who was canonically the original Team Fortress Pyro, and whom Radigan had devised a plan to save (or to fake the assassination in the first place).

>>386306145
It's fucking funny. Overwatch is not funny at all.

>>386313007
>>386313563
>>386313195
I remember the BFB at release. And then right after release. And then after that it was great for a while, but I knew a nerf was coming. It needed a nerf but the one it got was a bit much. The damage required to slow you with the BFB is anything close to a scratch and it completely empties your meter.

>>386318845
>skins that are worthless are better to spend my money on than skins that are worth 1000s of dollars
k

>>386318610
>>386307813
I said that to this anon and then the other guy started sperging out about what I said of tf2 drops and trading.

I aggree that's the person's fault but I was just saying it would be worse for someone with that condition.

>>386314262
>and you have to trade if you want an specific weapon without depending on rng
Most a craftable and there's quite a few you can get with just achievements.

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>>386312665
>>386312836
>ruined weapons
I can't believe they fucked up the Loch-n-Load so hard. They gave it THREE grenades.
The whole reason for the weapon existing in the first place is that it was a double barrel.
They just up and said "can't be arsed anymore".

>>386319154
pretty sure all weapons are craftable

>>386318902
I would really like a comic on pyro's backstory. Hoping they would release something about him at least before tf3 or something.

>>386319187
the grenade launcher has 6 cylinders but only 4 can be loaded

>>386319239
Fuck no.

>>386319239
>tf3
lol

>>386319070
> Implying I would spend money on that and not just get them while I play them game.

You have to dedicate time selling your items, finding buyers, and sellers if you want to get an unusual in tf2, it doesn't even compare.

>>386319213
By craftable I mean there's a specific recipe for them without RNG.

Just for ONE example.
The boston basher WILL be crafted when you combine the sandman and the tribalman's shiv. There's quite a few more but that's what I was referring to.

>>386312297
>Japanese companies
>Jews

>>386319339
Wouldn't you like to know?

>>386319397
TF2.9 happy?

>>386319318

>implying the Demoman isn't so smashed all the time that he only loads four

>>386319415
>listing items on steam market place is too hard for me
>i'd rather spend money on non-tradable skins, which are completely character locked

>>386318604
You mean like Dota 2? Which it can run fine? Or Overwatch, which it also runs fine. You don't seem to understand what you're talking about at all.

"Oh it's being updated so it's a modern game now." is the most ignorant and stupid god damn thing I have ever read, and this is fucking 4chan, so that's impressive.

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>>386314262
>1300 hrs
Try 4152 m8

>>386319502
>Wwuuuun...tuuuuuu....threeh.... SIX! SIX SHOTS LAD!

>>386319520
>anecdotes
keep going

>>386319495
>Wouldn't you like to know?
Absolutely not and doubly so after the abortion that was Meet the Pyro.

>>386319528
the guy with the guitar should have a hardhat on, otherwise this is goty

>>386318527
>please stop giving me ways to dig this hole for myself

Fixed it for you

>>386306145
your prejudice, or lack thereof

>>386319647
>the abortion that was Meet the Pyro.
The butthurt after that short was delicious.

>>386319647
>i didn't like it
i like it

>>386319528
try 5282

File: This-only-goes-to-further-illustrate-the-most-fundamental-problem-with-Overwatch,-that-it-betrays-the-axiom-of-'It's-not-whether-you-win-or-lose,-it's-how-you-play-the-game.'.png (38KB, 1146x352px) Image search: [Google]

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>>386312406
>TF2 is fun even if you don't win.
This.
Binding SR to a single team-based binary result was the worst idea anyone could think of.

>>386319094
I'm not that autistic anon though and OW problem is certainly not community obsessed with crate opening. I explained everything right about tf2 (and that is wrong with OW) in this >>386316675 post.

>>386319514
> Implying I would spend money on that.

Steam market wasn't there when I used to play, and it ends up beign more time consuming than just playing the game and getting drops on the side without the need of interacting with other people.

I play the game because I enjoy it and get some cosmetics and other things on the side, without any extra effort.

>>386306145
Jesus christ how fucking obsessed are you? It's been over a year since that game released and you still hate it this much?

>>386319528
>>386319785
I'm the guy with 1300 hours, how the fuck do you play that much time without burning yourself out? Or is part of those hours idling.

>>386319604
No, please, by all means, explain to me how it's acceptable for a game like TF2 to run worse than more graphically advanced games. I'll wait.

I'll be waiting a while, because there is no excuse, my CPU isn't powerful, but it's more than enough for Source games, just not TF2, because it's been loaded with shit without proper optimisation of any kind.

Better CPU's than mine struggle with the game because of it's shit optimisation, it's near Stalker levels of bullshit.

>>386319860
>moving the goal post
NOICE BOI

File: no-wonder-people-are-so-pissed-off,-it's-almost-like-rewards-based-on-luck-are-a-laughably-shit-tastic-idea!-you-know-when-'old'-Call-of-Duty-is-considered-good-game-design-we've-gone-too-far-with-this-bullshit.png (29KB, 1060x352px) Image search: [Google]

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>>386313160
Because TF2 allows you to buy and trade what you want.
Overwatch is a blatantly rigged gambling system that all but requires either deep pockets or autistic dedication to get anything that's not a low-level dupe.

>>386319962
I've been playing tf2 since release, and don't have as much time as them, only about 3700 hours.

But it's because the game challenges me to try to get better.

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>>386319962
I basically have alot of free time.

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>>386313403
>-Better sound effects
Gonna have to disagree with this one.

>>386320195
>case in point, the recent mannpower update wherein mannpower servers kept crashing after the update that was supposed to fix mannpower
From what I understand, it was so bad that just queuing to join the server would crash it.

>>386319962
Pubs, 6s, MGE, SoapDM, training maps, stupid shit like x10 and Prop Hunt, rtd servers, there is a lot to play. I'm only something 3800 right now.

>>386318527
>Please stop Just because there is a fancy menu doesn't mean the game is now competitive
Hey shit for brains, you said "competitive vibe". Not "make the game competitive".

>>386320192
that is literally extreme autism

>>386315070
I find competitive TF2 very fun to watch

Why is it so unpopular?

>>386319962
>major updates
>community content such as maps, and mods
>you can play the game casually, competitively
>you can be a sandwich heavy one second, get frags as soldier later
You can play TF2 however you want. Its great.
Compared to Overwatch, you can play the game in 2 ways. Competitive, and competitive practice. Everyone is so serious in OW, and you get reported in casual if you dont play the game properly. In TF2, you can do whatever the fuck you want.

>>386320308
>x10
They're up to x1000 now last I checked.

>>386319476
>implying the reach of the Jewish investor is not long

>>386320192
I'm gonna agree with this one, I loved TF2, but Overwatch got it's sound design down to a science.

>>386306145
skill ceiling
silly goof off servers and weapons

>>386316675
>no hard counters
What is Pyro vs. Spy?
What is Engineer vs. Scout?
What is Sniper vs. Heavy?

>>386320353
because it's not the same game

competitive mode is really fun to play when it works... it rarely works.

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>>386319962
Because TF2 can be anything you want.

Here we see TF2 being converted into Attack on Titan.

Then see this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5zUCOU0adg

Fuck, just release the update already.
I want to drop Overwatch for a spell and hope Blizz pulls their heads out of their asses by the time I return.

>>386320353
It was fun to watch back when there were good players playing it, too many have left and the new generation can't compete against the veterans.

>>386320443
except that's irrelevant in sixes and the game isn't entirely balanced around them

>>386318025
>>386318418
I think (s)he's referring to sales.

>>386320443
Pyro > Spy > Engineer > Scout > Sniper > Heavy
Soldier > Demo

Everyone > Medic

>>386320353
It's not unpopular. TF2 has a very low (sub 100k) playercount. Many of the people playing the game on a regular basis are kids who don't give a fuck about how the game can be played at high levels, they're here for 2fort and turbine, and you can't really blame them for anything, they're playing the game their way. If TF2 had more numbers, it would have way more viewers for it's competitive scene. Also, Valve hasn't cared much for competitive until much recently

>>386316675
I agree with most of them, pretty good points.

Those chokepoints are really annoying when the other team is really well coordinated.

Though there are some characters in overwatch that are hard to master.

>character design and offensive banter
Well Overwatch characters say different things to different characters nad depending on their situation, you can even use voice commands.
IMO I like most of their character designs.

>>386320067

???

>>386320076
Valid points, while skins in Overwatch are easier to obtain it could be frustrating to not get the one you were looking for.

You still can get it with coins, but I get there's people with not self control.

>>386306145
Opinion.

>pyro vs spy
just walk away from the pyro lmao
never go near the pyro and use your pistol lmao

>engineer vs scout
just destroy the sentry by the corner lmao
just use your god damn pistol goofy

>what is sniper vs heavy
sniper is good vs every class lmao

>>386320443
None of those are hard counters, the sniper vs heavy one is laughable especially

>>386320631
>coins
Coin drops are ultra-rare and duplicate returns get you next to fucking nothing. It can take in excess of 50 levels just to get one Event Legendary.

>>386320595
>TF2 has a very low (sub 100k) playercount
Daily players is not total players. In the past week TF2 has had around 2 million players.

>>386320595
I think OW competitive being big is the same as SFV
it's where the money is so the players will go there

>>386320734
>just walk away from the pyro lmao
hahahahahahahaha how the fuck is PYRO real hahahaha nigga just walk away from the screen like nigga close your eyes haha

>>386306145
skill shooter
fun iconic characters that are full of personality

alot of people bash TF2 nowadays, yet they can't name a better one that has alot of depth

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>>386320353
Anon who posted the video here.
The reason TF2 competitive is so unpopular is because it receives no official support from Valve (outside of medals), the players have to crowdfund everything themselves, and the game is not balanced around competitive play, which means 4/9 classes are useless in comp and people who enjoy those classes do not get a look in. If they want to play Pyro/Spy/Engie/Heavy competitively full time they have to play HL, and this makes TF2's competitive scene split into two, and even harder to play.

A combination of all these factors, mixed with the repetition that comes from the same 5 classes being used for 9 years straight (even though TF2, like Quake, is an amazingly skillful competitive game, like Quake it lacks variation of content), means that TF2 competitive is not very popular.

People don't hear about it because it doesn't get advertised. The ones who do hear about it might not enjoy playing/watching it because it doesn't have the classes they enjoy. And even if they do hear about and enjoy it, they might not keep playing since there's no money in the competitive scene.

Valve's stated policy is that for the last 9 years they have been treating competitive and casual as separate products, and focusing on Casual. That's why Competitive is so maligned. But as you can see from pic related, they're changing that policy now. Competitive is going to be a bigger part of TF2, and Comp/Casual game balance are going to merge to create a hopefully overall more enjoyable game for everyone.

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>>386320775

>>386320323
>not liking digitized fart noises is autism
I bet you thought the Opposing Force shotgun was totally awesome, didn't you.

>>386320804
They recently reworked the overall drop system, haven't looked at the specifics because I'm waiting to get the PC version, but I've heard good things.

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>>386320443
There are no hard counters in TF2, only soft counters.

>>386320928
The HD shotgun is still one of the most satisfying sounding works of digital art that has ever been. Right beside the ME3 claymore shotgun.

>>386320353
>Why is it so unpopular?
Bli$$ard's billion-dollar marketing stole TF2's audience from out from under it.

>>386320367
Yeah I enjoyed that and loved that most people in my team didn't give a fuck about what I was doing, I might play it again but I'm sure I would get bored of it after a while. The core gameplay it's still the same and while that's not a bad thing it ends up feeling repetitive.

>>386320804
They increased the amount of coins duplicate items get you, but no idea how much, and I guess I got lucky them because of the last6-7 crates I opened, like 3-4 had coins in them.

Also this >>386320930

>>386320570
>>Everyone > Medic

Medic>Everyone if he has Uber

>>386321025
>Medic>Everyone if he has Uber
Uber > Everyone > Medic

>>386320920
Not an argument.
A hard counter is a strategy that ALWAYS beats another certain strategy, no matter the skill difference. No such thing exists in TF2 in terms of the classes.

>>386318902
>(or to fake the assassination in the first place)
If you're right I doubt the assassination was fake. Getting shot in the head and surviving would explain Pyro's insanity.

Still, Abe was a tall guy. Taller than Pyro.

>>386320775
>>386320969
You have to outright break the game in order to get a Scout past a well-placed Level 3 sentry. That's a pretty fucking hard counter, and I have over 1000 hours on TF2 to prove it.

>>386321094
google: A hard counter is something that beats its counterpart even with inferior investment. A soft counter usually beats its counterpart, but may lose with inferior investment. We prefer not to use these terms on this wiki. They are ambiguous and there are many edge cases.

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>>386320995
>stole TF2's audience from out from under it.
this is a myth:

>>386321129
>I have over 1000 hours on TF2 to prove it.
>it's true because i say so
k

>>386306145
the game is actually a masterpiece in terms of design, each character is distinct in shape and movement so for example its easy to identify a scout from accross the map, overwatch on the other hand youre just firing in the general direction of a massive clusterfuck of color.This is just a single example I could go on for hours making comparisons like this. That being said im burned out on tf2 and overwatch isnt awful but tf2 is objectively a more carefully designed game in almost every aspect.

>>386320928
hl1 shotguns r good

>>386321162
i'd like to add that the game coordinator breaks often enough to hold most players off casual and the regular maintenance for the casual servers too

>>386313160
TF2's items arent based on win rate. This means you can just have fun and not worry about winning to get drops. The player base isn't obsessed with try-harding in order to get their gambling fix.

Want more champions in LoL? Better play AS HARD AS YOU CAN to get more IP on average to get champions faster. Same with overwatch but with their gambling cosmetics.

Win/loss doesn't matter in tf2 for loot.

>>386321162
Thank you for supporting my argument.

>>386321162
your graph seems to be conveniently ignoring the fact that the game lost 20-30k players permanently.

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>>386306145
absence of hats and non-vanila weapons... oh shit

>>386321162
i forget, what was the short circuit bug?

>>386321094
>A hard counter is a strategy that ALWAYS beats another certain strategy, no matter the skill difference.
By that logic, Overwatch doesn't have any hard counters either. I've defeated a few Winstons playing Genji, and shot down many Pharahs playing Reaper.

>>386321296
in tf2 all that matter is time played to get a drop, think it's like 1 per hour and max 10 drops a week altho some items can still drop and not count towards that

>>386321383
ppl u shoot with it lag

>>386321296
You still get exp in Overwatch when you lose.

I prefer it this way insted of spending time trading.

>>386320443
>What is Engineer vs. Scout?
Whut? Even mini-sentry + proper engie wrecks scout and I'm not even talking about big sentry.
>What is Pyro vs. Spy?
Spy is meant to be played stealthy, pretty much every other class kills him in direct 1v1 encounter.
>What is Sniper vs. Heavy?
Eh, this one is kinda legit, still both of the classes have to be smart about their positioning.

>>386321278
>>386320991
You do know OpForce has a completely different shotgun from HL1, right?

>>386321337
>48,736 playing an hour ago 62,427 24-hour peak 117,917
steamcharts.com/app/440

>lost 20-30k players permanently.
nop

>>386321401
So idling fags can segregate themselves away from the rest of the world and let us casualfags enjoy ourselves.

And yet Overwatch and LoL encourage casualfags and tryhards to play together, making nobody happy thus their communities turn out horribly toxic.

>>386321129
if only there were an item that could make the scout invulnerable to fucking bullets for a few seconds right

>>386320834
You're quite right on that account. Most of TF2 comp money is crowdfunded. It's very difficult for a high level player to survive with comp TF2 as their source of income.

>>386320969
Half of those have unlocks that counter those soft counters, Spycicle, Razorback, etc.

>>386321129
Or you could just Bonk

>>386321491
kid, it's visible on the graph. you can't argue against an objective fact that *you presented as evidence yourself*

to suggest that a game with milliosn of players in a similar genre marketed to be similar didn't take players is just stupid fanboyism.

>>386321432
You get MORE for winning though. That's the catch. Winning = more chests. If you got the same amount for winning or losing I bet the shitshow would calm down although I doubt by much since Blizz attracts autists anyway.

>>386321504
Yeah an item that wasn't in the game until several years after release, takes up a valuable loadout slot, and doesn't solve the problem of a sentry being on the control point.

>>386314443
>red scout and red spy
>Father son
>red spy is with blu scouts mom
Rethink your shit faggot.

>>386320805
You are correct. But a daily count of 60k players is still very low for a free game which also plays very well. Even GTA5 consistently has more people playing it on the PC

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>>386321154
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Hard_Counter#Trivia
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hard%20counter
>>386321129
But "a well placed level 3 Sentry" already makes assumptions about skill anyway.

You're putting Engineer in the strongest possible position and saying that he hard counters Scout because of that.

I could just as easily say that Scout hard counters Engineer because "you have to outright break the game in order for an Engineer who is only using his Wrench to beat a Scout who is using his Scattergun and keeping his distance." You see what I mean?

Engineer's Sentry isn't always at level 3, or even fully set up. Engineer isn't always in a good position that Scout can't corner creep easily or outrange by flanking.
So Engineer does not hard counter Scout.
>over 1000 hours
You are like a little baby.

>>386306145
community maps/servers/mods

i don't even play normal modes

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The base game has the same Spaz as HL1, with the HD pack making it look and sound far better in both games.

>>386321556
>>386321609

>>386321490
I said hl1 shotguns
plural
I like shotguns in hl1 and opfor they r satisfying

>>386321559
literally not the same person retard and tf2 has been losing players for years, if anything overwatch was just a drop in the water for what was going on already.
tf2's player trend has been downwards way before overass came out

>>386321337
>>386321337
Not because of Overwatch, though. Because of Meet your Match and the Short Circuit bug. You see how Overwatch's release is players leaving, followed up by everyone coming back at the top of that trough?

>>386321484
>Whut? Even mini-sentry + proper engie wrecks scout and I'm not even talking about big sentry.
Ohh, you mean that engie counters scout, well, fuck, engie kills most of the classes with ease if he's not dumb fucking retard.

>>386316280
>engineer's dad died off screen
wtf valve

>>386321609
>sentry on the control point

so why are you playing scout again

>>386321493
>encourage
yeah must be fun having that guy that yells at everybody for not doing exactly what he wants and blaming everybody for losing him the game.
casual is casual, i shouldn't be yelled at because some tryhard wants to win, if he wants to win so badly he can play competitive.

>>386321727
>arguing against reality

have fun. yes, overwtach didn't take any players from tf2. k.

>>386321609
the game is literally called TEAM fortress 2

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>>386321398
>By that logic, Overwatch doesn't have any hard counters either
I mean, I agree with that too. I'm a different guy to the guy you originally responded to. I don't think Overwatch has hard counters.

On the other hand, it's pretty apparent to everyone here to say that OW's counter advantages are stronger than TF2's counter advantages. Someone killing their counter in OW is rarer than in TF2.

Perhaps it's more accurate to say that counters range on a scale from hard to soft. The hardest possible counter is scissors paper rock, and the softest possible counter is something like "+1 damage against X class". And there's everything inbetween.

TF2's counters are softer than OW's counters, allowing for more player skill to shine through in any matchup.

>>386319187
Shut up dont remind me im so fucling pissed right now

1shoting scouts whas the most fun I ever had with demoman, even more that old half satoichi killing spree

>>386321953
>i make up my own facts
k

>>386321953
I didn't say they didn't take ANY. His post was that OW took TF2's audience which is not true.

>>386322029
Oh shit im having a stroke
send help

>>386312406
>There's a reason why 2fort and Hightower ended up as deathmatch maps and some people would go "don't cap" in koth.
I hate that though. It's a cancerous habit, especially in casual play.
If they want to be stupid and not play the objective, then go in a community server full of friendlies, brony ERPers and similar shitheads like you.

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>>386321973
See that's funny because I thought the whole argument was that TF2 was less team-oriented than Overwatch.

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>>386321642
>Even GTA5 consistently has more people playing it on the PC
What do you mean "even" GTA5? According to this Grand Theft Auto V is the 4th best selling video game EVER.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

80 million copies - 2.7x the numbers of copies that Skyrim has sold - and they have heavily pushed the online mode, so having a lot of concurrent players isn't surprising. You're of course just talking about PC sales, but this is a game that has constantly been one of the best sellers on Steam since the day it came out. Hell, go look right now. It's currently in the top sellers even though it's still selling for a full $60 4 years after release.

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>>386322029
Demo is the most balanced class in the game now.
Apart from the fact it's dumb they turned LnL into a 3-barrel launcher instead of balancing it some other way, LnL needed a nerf and is balanced now, and the same is true for Half-Zatoichi.

And you can still go on killing sprees with Half-Zatoichi really efficiently. I see people doing it all the time. It's just not plain broken now.

>>386322070
>what is hyperbole?
>what is generalization?

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>>386320890

You forgot to add comp in TF2 is not natural just like SMB: is fun to play with friends but when someone comes in and set up made up rules to streamline things most people wont play then that guy spaz out people get a very bad impression.

Plus like you said, TF2 balance is bogus with scout and soldier forever being the top dogs in the game (and the fact they will never bring them down to the level of the other classes, givemore power to the other classes) and at the same time they are the most annoying classes to fight against, a fatal combo that most players hate.

TF2 also lost his moment to be a decent comp game; is too late to try something now and the new "esport culture" is fucking terrible and annoying.

>>386321642
TF2 is a 10year old game that most people don't really know of.
GTA is a massive series that appeal even to non-gamers and normies know of it.
GTA is the Queen of gaming.

>>386322217
>Its just not plain broken now
except it still fucking is
granted demoknights in general are...

>>386322217
I dont care about balance I care about fun it was funny to play with the old lock and lol and the old satoichi.

"But it wasnt fun for other people" I dont care anon

>>386322254
>scout and soldier
>doesn't mention the most OP class in the game
please, you know nothing.

>>386322248
No, at this point it's called backpedaling.

>>386322176
>because I thought the whole argument was that TF2 was less team-oriented than Overwatch.
No, the argument was that TF2 has softer counters than Overwatch. The original post was: ">no hard counters, it's not fun being killed by someone and not being able to do anything about it"
Not having super hard counters doesn't mean that your game doesn't have teamwork.

Hard counters are a lazy way of encouraging teamwork. TF2's extensive and varied map design full of flanks encourages a lot more teamplay when people can strategize with their allies what flank route to take.

This thread is making me miss how chill it was to play TF2.

You could just hop in, dick around all you want, and hop right back out. All the tryhards and whiny kids were almost always ignored because no one gave a shit.

I can't find an online pvp game like that anymore.

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>>386322362
>I dont care about balance I care about fun
>"But it wasnt fun for other people"
So what you're saying is you want the game to be fun for you, and only you? That's how you get a game with nobody playing it.

Game balance is the process of making sure everyone has fun, by letting people pick the things they enjoy without being at a disadvantage.

That's why LNL got nerfed. Though they overdid it a little.
>>386322347
>except it fucking is
There's nothing overpowered about current LNL, if anything it's slightly UP. It's unbanned in competitive gameplay (and used less than stock/Iron Bomber), it's used less than stock in pubs, and I never see people complain about it anymore.

>>386322195
>>386322316
I completely understand. My opinion was that so many people just love TF2 and the community produces a lot of content for the game. It's also so old that it has a lot of people who've been playing it for 10 years staraight. I thought GTA5 was a much newer game with a much smaller lifecycle, but I obviously did not take into account how big GTA Online has become.


Maybe I just want people to play TF2 more again. It's such a well made game.

>>386317171
How would you fight a sniper as a heavy with "skill"?

>>386322630
just play on a community server dipdung

>>386320192
What the fuck? These are the thoughts of a man who peels off pepperoni slices for later from his pizza then proceeds to eat it with a fork.

>>386322630
I miss singing along to mic spammers playing Queen.

>>386322254
>but when someone comes in and set up made up rules to streamline things most people wont play then that guy spaz out people get a very bad impression
I don't think this really makes sense as an argument at all.

Nothing is "natural" in a video game; everything is artificial. And TF2 comp exists because a bunch of people who wanted to play seriously came together and made it happen. They didn't force anyone else to play the game their way.

>>386322659
>It's such a well made game.
if the pyro update is shit, you'll see even less players playing it.

it's not helping attract people to the game when even the people that love the game are complaining about what state the game currently is in

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>>386322689
People like you are what's responsible for shit like this.

>>386322630
>You could just hop in, dick around all you want, and hop right back out
Yep, you can still do that.

>>386322638
>So what you're saying is you want the game to be fun for you, and only you? That's how you get a game with nobody playing it


I think TF2 was preaty ok with its playerbase when the LNL was crazy fun. Only competitive autist gave a shit about it and they were a minority in the playerbase

But nooooo lets follow le esports meme and go full competitive.

>>386322676
Equip your Fists of Steel and shove them up his ass.

>>386322780
>pc with computer speakers
>tv with backfacing speakers

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>>386322630
Those players stuck in the middle have nowhere to go

>>386322780
I think it's just you and that other anon with this opinion. Never have I ever seen someone upset over the sound effects in TF2 in the entire decade that I've heard about it.

>>386306145
It wasn't, it's the original normie reddit FPS that KILLED good arena shooters FOREVER

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>>386322676
Correctly use flanking routes to get close to him, then kill him at close range where he has difficulty killing you due to flinching.
Hop and strafe around and mash crouch to go up and down when you know a Sniper is in the area.
If you're forced to go through his sightline, use your Shotgun while looking up, and/or calls for Medic, so that your arm/hand hitbox blocks your face, meaning he can't headshot you and will only do bodyshot damage. (This is a real thing done in competitive play).
If on defense, simply stay out of his sightlines. If he can't get a good angle on you, but you're still watching the objective, you're doing your job successfully while also stopping him.

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I may lose to someone with more skill and situational awareness, and I may win against someone with less
Nobody has an "shit my pants and escape" button on a 10s cooldown
Weapon sidegrades
It's not fucking 6v6
I'm done

>>386322948

I was about to post that TF2 is older than reddit but it isn't

Confirmed for Reddit-tier normie trash, pack it up /v/irgins

/fucking thread

>>386322837
>when the LNL was crazy fun
Being fun doesn't make something also balanced.
>Only competitive autist gave a shit about it and they were a minority in the playerbase
That's not true anon, plenty of non-comp players complained about the state of the LnL and Demo in general.

>>386322905
the sounds in tf2 are very distinct, you can tell what's coming your way, what class they're playing, what weapons they have, heck you can even tell where a defenseless heavy is hiding and eating his sandvich, the sounds of tf2 are there for gameplay not for "listening"

>>386323102
>Fun =/= balance

No but who fucking cares about balance if you are having fun? What else matters besides fun? Would you rather play an unfun game that is balanced or a fun game that is unbalanced?

>>386323241
If it's not balanced, it's fun only for a certain number of people, not everyone. LnL was not fun for scout players

>>386323092
Still, Digg was the "Reddit" of 2007 wasn't it?

>>386323241
>Would you rather play an unfun game that is balanced or a fun game that is unbalanced?
Neither, dude. This isn't some binary thing. If you enjoy pubstomping with an overpowered weapon then more power to you but might I suggest just getting rid of the middleman and installing cheats while you're at it?

>>386321129
An Engineer wrenching his level 3 Sentry with a level 3 dispenser next to him, counters everything other than Soldier, Demo, and Sniper.

>>386322948
Disregard the entire industry related to FPS games trying their hardest to recreate the financial success of Halo and CoD, forever trying to appeal to dudebros and underageb&.

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>>386323241
>No but who fucking cares about balance if you are having fun?
>you
That's right, you, referring to yourself. You fail to understand that other people are playing the game.

LnL shat all over the Scout players (and other light classes) before its nerf. You were pissing off 4 groups of players to please 1 group of players.

That's simply not a good idea if you want everyone to have fun instead of 1 group of people.
>What else matters besides fun?
Nothing, of course. Game balance exists to CAUSE fun. It exists so that everyone can have fun, and not just YOU, personally. I shouldn't have to explain this to you, anon.

>Would you rather play an unfun game that is balanced or a fun game that is unbalanced?
I'd rather play a fun game that is balanced. Why would I argue for either of the above? Fun is objectively good and balance is objectively good. It doesn't have to be a contest, we can have both.

It really pains me to have to discuss these things with people on /v/ who make bold statements without thinking them through. Like, can you not actually see that other people might exist who also want to have fun? Is your mind really that limited?

>>386323102
>Being fun doesn't make something also balanced.

>>386322362

>That's not true anon, plenty of non-comp players complained about the state of the LnL and Demo in general.
No they didnt because there wasnt a thing like a "comunity" beside comp autist. Everyone else didnt gave a shit about the game balance.

Like me they just joined a random game and play had fun and leave. As a scout i never had problems with LnL demos, you know why? because id dint mess with them

"But you are playing wrong you need to kill the demos as a scout and bla bla bla"

No you dont, that was the magic about TF2 you could do what ever the fuck you wanted because it was not a comp game by itsef so no one would kick you for being a retard.

My worst moments in tf2 were in the mvm maps because of all the "dude you need to be X class or we kick you" bullshit
fuck off with that shit

>>386323389
and spies, engies and snipers too I might add

Fewer, more distinct classes that have clear strengths and weaknesses. Said classes also have way more dialogue and are much more fun than the blandness in OW. No cool downs on abilities for easy kills. Imo combat also has a lot more depth to it with more tricks you have to master rather than mash Q.
OW is still good, but I grew tired of it after the first couple dozen hours.