How should PVP be done in MMOs?

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>>386260412
>tfw no friends for this poll

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>>386260827

>>386260412
PvP should be completely unrelated to PvE level/stat-wise, or else it will be just a gear check contest.
Things like level range and little to no rewards for killing people just kills the reason to have open world PvP, and having PvE and PvP as the same content just make the PvP process a gear check that interrupts you PvE progression every now and then.
Honestly, unless it is a MMO with very few "RPG" on it, I don't world PvP working in an interesting way. But instanced PvP in MMOs is fucking boring.

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>>386261028
I'm for the restricted areas with pvp and full loot on death. Because runescape. I find that its the perfect balance of gameplay. You have a huge portion of the world to pve in and then you got a small section to kill people. You also have incentives to go inside the wilderness and risk your gear / items. Green dragons, bosses, slayer tasks. Etc etc.

Separate PvP and PvE servers like WoW

>>386260995
witnessed

>>386260412
Remove level and gear from the equation.

All abilities do % damage to players and CCs have 2-second heartbeats.

Vanilla wow pvp with CC fixed and the honor system revised but not necessarily the tbc system with free epics for playing 5 games.

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>>386260995

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>>386261948
>I fap to sexy fruit

>>386261028
This is the objective truth.

Gear based combat is fucking stupid.
Level based combat is fucking stupid.
It should come down to your skill. Least you have something like BDO. I did enjoy open world PvP back in my Rift days but people who gank or roam around are shitters nine times out of ten and the only way I could get good pvp was organizing events with the other faction.

Small Skrimishes > Duels > Mindless zerging

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>>386260827

Guild Wars 1 PvP. Completely skill based.

>>386260412
I like FFXIV's idea of PvP. The mode is completely separated from PvE, classes have new skill sets balanced around PvP only, and your level and equipment have no effect on it. But it is fully instanced, and the largest player count per map is 72.

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>>386262054

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Wish i could find a rock like this, so i can cum on it

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>>386262506
Eggplant will fuck that rock.

>>386260412
>Whats hardcore.
Open world PvP anywhere with full loot on death, except the looted items are reduced in durability depending on the attacks taken and can be completely broken if the fight lasts long enough.

>Whats best for player retention.
PvP limited to specific clearly-marked areas that instance players based on level and gear. P2W whales can jerk off punching each other with their OP pay store crap, while more casual players can have fun fighting each other without worrying that the other guy will suddenly pull out some retard whale weapon or power and make things unfun. No dropped loot on death, instead players gain a PvP currency on killing other players and completing PvP objectives that can be redeemed for PvP-centric items/powers/whatever. There's a "bounty" system where players are given a rank visible to everyone based on how good they are using an Elo-based system, so players get higher and lower rewards based on the rank of the players they kill. This encourages high-rank players to fight amongst themselves, and PvP players can wave their e-dick around talking how high rank they are.

>Whats best for having fun.
Your personal preference.

>>386260412
It should be like in the old tibia pre-safe space.
Harsh death penalties, players can PK the fuck out you everywhere.

>>386260412
Less cc, less aoe, less buttonmashing for rotations, big amount of players, not tiny teams

>>386260412
loot on death or perma death is the only right options for pvp, senpaitachi

>>386263570
This
Plenty of older MUDs had no problem with it.

>>386264107

Older games also needed far less amounts of players and income streams to stay in business. Perma-death isn't going to fly with the general audience and an MMO without the general audience is DoA unless it's some shitty 2d isometric nonsense.

>>386264403
The general audience for MMOs can fuck off, they've already ruined the genre beyond repair.

>>386260412
uh player retention is league of legends but you keep releasing the worst content you can imagine all the time, for the worst faggots possible.
literally take advantage of Government Workers and people that do fake jobs that don't produce anything.
anyways, if you mean COOL, obviously you can kill anyone anywhere, anytime and you can also loot their stuff. That'd be retarded in some World of Warcraft clone with world of warcraft gameplay, but I'm assuming your game is also designed correctly like SWG.

>>386264630
The genre was always shit. If you didn't have casuals shitting everything up you had poopsocking autists shitting everything up.

>>386260412
>Open world pvp with no loot drop on death is the most popular of the options

haha ebin I love wasting peoples' time so hardcore am I right?

>>386261751
Why do people want "balanced" pvp that ignores every progression system in the game? If I wanted good PvP I'd play an actual PvP game not some half-assed minigame implemented as part of another game; in MMOs I want to use the gear I worked to get.

The absolute smoothness/responsiveness of WoW combat with the mechanics/player skill focus of GW 1 with things like body blocking and ability to dodge projectile spells.

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Glad to see the only sensible choices are winning out.

>>386265698
See this fishing spot? My fishing spot. No fish for you.

>>386260412

the way world PvP in wow used to be before dungeon queues

>>386260412
too much ass

>>386267303
Its the sweetest most juiciest ass in the world.

>>386260412
why are you implying that there'll always be a levelling system?

>>386267450
Obviously we're talking about traditional MMOs, not Planetside 2.

Open world pvp anywhere, maybe not full loot on death, but you should definitely lose something, be it xp (i.e de-level), or chance to drop X items, etc.
Also no instances, all pve content should have to be fought over and contested.

>>386267569
the best for having fun is to not have games like "traditional MMOs", since they reduce player interaction to a minimum and make it as pointless as possible

>>386260412
Making loot expendable is a good way to make MMOs more engaging. It necessitates less retarded gear power scaling, and makes you feel more engaged in gathering resources to be able to craft more for yourself.

>>386260412
absolute no gear impact, progression comes in the form of mounts, transmog, titles, gear for PVE, and random trade goods. Duels can have a prize pot of gold that both players (or groups) contribute equally.

>>386260412
wow people actually dont want pvp
I JUST WANT TO ENJOY GAMES AGAIN
THIS CONPETITIVE SHIT IS NO FUN IT STRESS YOU AND DONT LET YOU ENJOY THE GAME

>>386263167
That's what I call earth porn

>>386260412
>How should PVP be done in MMOs?
It shouldn't. "PvP" in an RPG is a fucking joke and anyone who plays an MMO for PvP is a loser.

>>386265328
no fuck u it was fun, go ruin fps or something else

>>386267906
Pussies

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Every good MMO should have open world pvp where you can gank people who are just trying to do their quests

Always a lot of fun

>>386268085
anyone who plays "massively multiplayer" games for small scale player interaction is retarded. there is no point in these games existing and being a subscription/whatever thing if you just want to grind through some themepark pve with a few friends

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Not at all, because the idea of PvP in an MMO is a meme in and of itself. "People" who disagree are underage and/or Redditors.

PvP in mmos is always trash, it's never balanced. It's a total meme.

>>386268324
>i pay to play a minigame in the game

>>386268324
But that's always how MMOs have been. The difference now with the change of technology is people find their groups outside of the game itself.

>>386268342
>"People" who disagree are underage
>Oldest MMOs and MUDs all had open PVP
What did he mean by this?

>>386268534
name 1 that is not shit

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Equalized stats in any form but no loot drop
but holy fuck don't balance the game around everyone having korean ping, the person who lives closer to the servers shouldn't win based on that solely

>>386268534
>Comparing MUDs to modern action RPGs

>>386268484
no, that's how all the trashy wow clones that bring in all the money have been

>>386268464
>I pay to play a shit game where the only good part of it is a minigame

you pve themepark fags should be asking for coop non-mmo games

>>386269960
nobody play the minigame, only autistic people who think pvp in wow matters for some reason, people wanted to explore the world of warcraft, why the fuck are you playing it if you dont like it? cause it's hip? holy shit

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The only reason I would ever touch an MMO with a 12-foot stick is to bully people.
Open non-restricted pvp anywhere and loot drops is ideal.

brehs......

>>386268307

b-back that ass up

>>386260412
Pearson's Disease.

Open world pvp. I'm not sure if it should be full loot or not, but that's not really the "problem" with MMO pvp.
The Problem is in your question. You should be asking "why?" instead of "how".
Now days you do pvp just for the sake of pvp, which is fine, but what i'd like is more of MEANINGFUL territory control, like fighting over resource farming places, quest hubs, dungeon/raid enterances even towns and cities. Even the MMOs that market themselves as THE pvp MMO have either very small areas for the resource wars or just some instanced place where you fight over some towers that don't do shit and that's fucking stupid.
DEVS
YOU BUILT A BIG ASS WORLD
FUCKING USE IT

>>386267694
>thinking WoW and its clones are traditional MMOs
Can we raise the poster age restriction to 25 or something? This guy might not even be underage but he should be.

>>386270452
>people wanted to explore the world of warcraft

The overworld is boring and static and all the meaningful content is instanced. There's no point in playing a massively multiplayer game if all you're doing is instances. You might as well play a lobby based dungeon crawler and get the same experience with less bullshit and padding.

The overworld itself needs to have something in it to justify its existence. And in the early days of WoW the main thing that accomplished that was the real threat of being killed while traveling. Now there's nothing.

>>386266854
Except now we're in a massive jerkoff over who is willing to waste more time attacking each other or fishing extremely inefficiently for the fishing spot since the fisher is generally going to be at a disadvantage due to having fishing gear or whatever. If it was full loot then the issue would actually be resolved right away since the loser would not have gear to attack repeatedly instead of that retardation.

>People saying they want full loot open world old school MMOs
>Literally nobody played Runescape's Darkscape servers

Lying fuckers.

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Is this a fruit thread?

>>386260412
Only game that do pvp well is Blade and Soul.

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>>386260412
>>386260827
>>386261948
>>386262416
>>386262506
>>386263167
>>386264434
>>386264603
>>386268307
>>386272897

>>386270452
if you want to 'explore the world', aka with all the other people and the possibility of player conflict removed, you could've been playing an open world coop rpg, not a massively multiplayer

>>386271347
more like raise the minimum IQ to 25 for you

>>386260412
Open world PvP anywhere with any level is dumb as fuck in MMORPG. NEETs with the best gear or highest level will fuck over lower gear/lvl people.

>>386273262
>if you want to 'explore the world', aka with all the other people and the possibility of player conflict removed, you could've been playing an open world coop rpg, not a massively multiplayer
im not against the oper world pvp, im against arenas and bgs

>>386272781
I'd rather play spaceships than muh fantasy

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>pvp in mmorpgs
that's like doing pve in a moba.

>not wanting full loot drop
what the fuck is the point then?

>>386262506shutterstock
Wow dude nice get

>>386272781
Add darkfall to the list.
>open world pvp with full loot are the way mmo are supposed to be played!
>game is reopened
>nolifes gank beginners 24/7
>game is already dying
Oh i'm laffin.

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>>386262267
>muh gear
>muh skill
Nah. That's the reason WoW pvp is so garbage now. It's instanced and your class is only as good as blizzard allows your template to be.

If you want to show off your skill, get the best gear and go kill other people with the best gear. If that's not good enough, don't fucking play an MMO in hopes of showing off your skill, faggot.

The most fun part of dominating in an MMO is seeing the hard work you've put in to your character allowing you to just shit on other people. It's the payoff. It gives you the sense of progress and accomplishment needed to keep an MMO interesting and fun. What is fun about a fresh player being on even footing as you, the person that has dumped their time into their character? What are you, a fucking casual?

Fuck you.

>>386273479
>pve in mmorpgs
that's like playing a really bad non-mmo game and paying a subscription / having f2p restrictions

>>386273708
what non-mmo game lets me group with 8-24 other players to kill large enemies and collect loot

>>386273708
wow was a boom after warcraft 3, other games doesnt matter

open world pvp but have consequences for killing lowbies
something like karma in korean MMOs but actually punishing and not a meme

be able to do it but heavily discourage griefing. i liked Lineage II's system, exploitable as it was. the risk of dropping your items wasnt worth destroying some lowbie for (most of the time)

>i-it's not balanced for it so it's dumb!
i find it makes for a fun way to act out clan/group/guild drama. if it was "balanced", all classes would play the same and that's shit

also what >>386273679 said

>>386273854

WoW

>>386260412
have invadeable instances with unique loot tables.

>>386273994
when did they turn wow into a offline game with LAN

>all these cucks voting no pvp at all

fags.

It really depends on the game. Games with loot drop in ow should have almost entirely player run economies and your character's power should be dependant on levels or skills more than gear. in games where gear is everything dropping loot in pvp and most things are farmed from dungeons no loot drop is the more sane option. Both are good but you can also have a good balance between both if done right, having loot drop but also having rare and valuable loot without pvp or acquiring high end gear feeling unrewarding and without death in pvp feeling like a massive progress erasing setback.

All MMOs should have some sort of persistent sandbox "alliance" style pvp system with meaningful rewards though, regardless of their owpvp system or lack thereof. Any MMO that doesn't have something like that is irredemable carebear shit.

What really makes a games pvp good is how good the gameplay itself is, and how viable solo/small gang pvp is while not undermining larger group/raid pvp. you should be able to jump in and pvp on your own whenever you want but there should also be incent

>>386273854
it sounds like you want something like diablo but with a few more players? I know very little about these kinds of games because they're grindy fag aids

>>386274154
>you should be able to jump in and pvp on your own whenever you want but there should also be incent

whoops meant to finish typing that

>you should be able to jump in and pvp on your own whenever you want but there should also be incentive to group up and fight other groups as well without making it the only viable option.

I like full open world pvp with experience loss. Archeage system is pretty good. Some safezones but high yield traderun areas are more dangerous, risk v reward scenario. Theres nothing quite like running a full ship of goods across the ocean to sell at another port and being attacked by pirates. So much more thrill when you know you could loose hundreds of gold and labor.

>>386260827

Now it all makes sense.

>pvp anylevel but no loot
Why even pvp then? Or are you just a bunch of edgelords? You realize that in real life nobody just murders random fuckers, those men are
after something. Soldiers don't get a mission
"kill everybody" they're tasked with defending an object or area and the best way to do it is to neutralize(lethally or not) everyone in it and anyone willing to get close to it.

>>386274952
games need to pander to psychotics murders too you know

>>386265698
It makes most sense since it allows natural conflicts to form anywhere in the game based on players' practical interest in the area, like fighting over resources, protecting or attacking settlements, keeping quest areas and quest givers safe, getting world bosses and such.

Loot drop punishes death so severely that most people would avoid it like the plague, for good reason considering how much time you can dump into a single MMO character. Designated PvP corrals are shit and do not foster natural evolution of conflicts, they're just places where everybody zergs and mindlessly spams shit at the other dudes in order to get some PvP reward, rather than actually fighting for a resource or something which brings legitimate in-game value.

Tibia did PVP right in the past, what other games have actual good PVP?

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>>386260412
>only 10% chose the patrician's option
I'm so disappointed in you /v/.

>>386264630
This. MMOs don't need hundreds of thousands of players. If it's developed by only a handful of people an MMO can survive with very few players. Fancy graphics only serve to complicate development and reduce immersion with the game world.

>>386275247
>It allows natural conflicts to form anywhere in the game

With no possible resolution because all you're doing is wasting their time making them run back to the spot since you killing them doesn't have them lose anything. You NEED death to be punished so that people will actively avoid it and take that into consideration when fighting over resources instead of it just being a retarded zergfest.

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Well this went Downhill very fast.
Looks like i'm in reddit afterall.

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>>386272641
>since the fisher is generally going to be at a disadvantage due to having fishing gear or whatever.
Why are you posting if you don't play MMOs?

>>386275774
>With no possible resolution
False, when they notice that you're repeatedly and consistently pushing their shit in they give up and leave. This almost never turns into a zergfest because the world is often fucking huge and the population density isn't sufficient. Such conflicts are usually fairly small scale and don't last very long.

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who the fuck would want to play an MMO with no pvp at all?

>>386275960
So maybe he can play some proper MMO game sometime in the future? We FPS fags also want to play MMO but they're all just trash now. They give us no reason to do something.

>>386276120
why not just play rpgs with much better story and gameplay, why bother with multiplayer stuff and having to deal with retards online?

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>>386276073
>SINGLE option
Ye fuck off.
How about punishing the cunt for messing with you so he thinks the next time hes about to do that?

Lineage 2 did it best back in the day: open world, anywhere, no level restrictions, only xp loss on death, unless you're red.
Outside castle sieges, PvP happens over PvE. PvP over world bosses, over popular end-game farming spots, over super world bosses, over quest bosses, etc etc.
PvP and PvE shouldn't be 2 different things, they should be one and the same, one should create the other.

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We made a new /v/ GW1 guild btw

Invite person in pic or reply with ign

>>386276394
thats the only thing lineage did great, the only thing why people even played that shit why cant anyone succesfully copy it? there are still a ton of people playing it

>>386276553
Fear.

>>386276073
So what's the problem with just pushing their shit in once and then going back to what you're doing knowing that you don't have to worry about them while they recover their resources? I played a game with open pvp like you're talking about and those "resource conflicts" were almost always retarded zergfests and very few players from the guild focused on the open world pvp were any good in the real pvp modes implemented later.

>>386276553
The majority of people still playing it are russians and latinos.
Most modern MMOs pander to people who have money to get jewed by microtransactions.

Exactly how it works in EVE/Wurm/etc.

Just give me a world with a few safe spaces and otherwise just let me rek or get rekt.

>>386276618
Please define 'zergfests' and tell me what's wrong with them.
Several guilds showing up on full force to fight over an objective is the pinnacle of MMOs imo.

>>386276807
Why not just hang around places where there's something that can fuck them up if they start shit or hang around your own clans defensive guards or something?

>>386276861
I'm not saying fights over resources aren't fun or good PvP, things like ganking people who were Runecrafting were great gameplay in Runescape; but you and them both stood to lose something. I'm asking why it has to be a zero risk affair where nobody actually loses until they give up.

>>386273854
Monster Hunter.

>>386277273
monster hunter only lets you play with 4 people

>>386277239
Not sure what games you played or what you have mind, but my experience comes from L2, where epic world bosses spanwed every several days and dropped crazy amounts of loot and unique items or were part of quests that were integral to a clan dominating other parts of the game.
The winners got the raid, the losers got nothing.

>>386276148
Alternate suggestion, fuck off and never come back, you are garbage just like your genre of choice and do not belong here.

>>386276618
You realise medieval kings never ever fought in an open field? Fights were only for resources.

>>386260412
It shouldn't. Just go play a fucking shooter if you want to wreck your mates.

And no, the pvp in the mmo you're about to respond with was garbo.

>>386277438
Get 7 friends and each of you share half a controller.

>>386276291
>How about punishing the cunt for messing with you so he thinks the next time hes about to do that?
Like killing him and making him waste time with whatever revival mechanic the game has?

>>386276618
What's there to worry about? Beat his ass again if he didn't learn his lesson. It's not like you can "relax" since somebody else could just as easily attack you at any point.

Getting wrecked in PvP wastes your time, is unpleasant and you also cannot get the resource you wanted to get in the first place, because there's a dude there killing you for it. There is no need for extra, artificial punishment, the penalty for failing is natural and intrinsic: it sucks and you fail to get whatever you were after in the first place. This can be pretty bad too, especially if you get wrecked by a competing guild and lose a world boss with a long spawn time or something.

>>386277595
>reddit kiddie telling me to go back
I don't have anywhere to go.

>>386277989
You forget all the inbetween, getting to and back from the resource. That's the most dangerous part. And the most interesting if you're a bandit.

>tfw will never play mortal online with /v/
why even exist

>>386262714
HA CHA CHA CHA

>>386278218
They fucked themselves in the ass with the multiple character thing. How can you have an economy when everyone are a monopoly of their own on every item in the game?

>>386260412
This is definitely one of the trickiest things to work out when even conceptualizing an MMORPG.

Normally, I hate PVP, but as >>386275247 points out, it gives a sort of natural build up of animosity and conflict between the players which helps breed a sense of a living world.

Not only that, but in theory, you then reduce work for yourself as a developer because players handle it the fun events themselves.

On the otherhand, PVP soon becomes the sole point and focus, and if you shipped the game with PVE aspects, the PVE falls wayside as a bulk of your development then gets focused on balancing PVP and the PVE ends up neglected.

And the problem with PVP in an RPG of any sort is that skill doesn't matter. it's slapping skillblocks together and rolling dice, also your internet connection stability.

The latter two effectively even kill the idea that you proved yourself better at math and exploiting the meta game so much as just being lucky or your ISP being better.

But, some players do love the idea of smacking eachother around, especially if someone is being stupid, and dueling invitations don't allow for that.

>>386260412
Lineage 2 was my absolute favorite pvp system
played from C1 to Interlude, dunno how it is now
but back then it was the best
(not like it makes me an authority but I played a shitton of MMOs, probably close to 20 titles? no life, yes.)
Guilds Wars was also pretty good

but EVERYTHING felt limiting after Lineage 2
WoW? pssssht fuck off
NOTHING beats Castle sieges, mass clan/allied pvp, PKing anyone you want
and if you PK'd your name turned red
and while someone killed you with a red name
there was a possibility to drop gear
so that's how it was "balanced"
people hunted PKs sometimes and such

ah, so many great memories from Lineage 2

first time I saw a Siege Golem bashing the fuck out of our castle walls... nothing ever came close in regards to pvp
healing my ranged friends on the castle walls as they were killing people who came close enough
being on the front lines with DD's/tanks

I'm going to cry from nostalgy fuck

any L2 maniacs here?

>>386278559
'Skill' in MMOs is playing the market, guild politics, proper knowledge of game mechanics, etc. It's not about twitch reflexes, there are other games for that.
So, of course, the people who poured the most time into the game, to farm the most and recruit the most or know the best setups should win.
>>386278886
Literally the only MMO I can still play. Or rather, I can't stop playing.

>>386278886
They need to overhaul the graphics on that, and rebalance it like the old days.

They also need to get off their asses and get Lineage Eternal out already.

>>386279354
>They need to overhaul the graphics on that, and rebalance it like the old days.

So basically L2 Classic? Because retail is unsalvageable atm.

>>386278218
Mortal Online would be the perfect game if it wasn't shitty.

>>386278886
What server you on atm anon?
What server you waiting for?

>>386276394
>>386278886
Lineage Oldfags assemble

it was so fucking good

you could even PK in towns if I remember correctly? but guards fucked you up completely
like 1 hit usually

>>386280264
nothing man
I haven't played since Interlude
I think that was after C5? as in Chronicle?
you know it used to be like that as they pushed out the updates
C1-2-3-4-5 then Interlude and then all kinds of weird names I believe but I didn't play then
played it for a solid 3 years at least

but I might look into an olschool server
you and the other L2 anons are giving me flashbacks

>>386277989
Why don't you get a guild or friends to protect you during resource gathering? Oh right, because you're an autistic loser who plays MMOs to avoid people but still feel like you're going outside you fucking wreck of a human being.

>>386280323
No, inside towns were safe spots, this was true even in beta. If you attack someone within agro range of the town guards, they will fuck your shit up. If you try to roll up to town while your name is red, they will fuck you up.

>>386280562
Are you retarded anon? Both sides get guilds and friends, that's how these conflicts escalate.

>>386273679
>The main appeal of MMO pvp is completely shitting on people who haven't invested as much time in the gamw as you
Sounds like something a 16 year old that uses MMOs as a substitute for actual accomplishments would say

>>386274154
So long as those player run economies don't have anything like Auction House or Grand Exchange, then it would be godly.
Anything that reduces human interaction is a shitty mechanic. Pre-GE RS economy made the world feel like it was living and breathing. There were so many odd jobs everyone fell into it was beautiful.

>>386280746
Yeah, and an escalating conflict for resources is way more fun than sitting at a pond with e621 tabs open on your second monitor you stupid bitch. Even then every conflict has an apex and someone's gonna give up.

>>386274108

It's still online, it's just not massively multiplayer since everything happens in instances

>Somebody says you need loot on death for PvP conflicts to be meaningful
>Somebody brings up Lineage 2 as a counterpoint
>Lineage 2 actually does have loot on death for aggressors with red names

Ok then.

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where my oldfags at? this thread is bringing up some repressed feels

bump for fps superiority over shitty ass MMO untill they make a proper one.

I summon this thread from the grave.

>>386282819
>>386282543
NO NECROING THREADS

[Thread locked]

This shitty thread has to live. Maybe it will open some nerds their 4 eyes and make them talk shit on the retarded mmo devs somewhere else. So that shitty genre can die along with rpgs and stats and usher in a new age of FPSMMO.

>>386281679
A great mechanic to punish mindless pking, but still alow you to pk enemies who refuse to flag when you're among allies.

Archeage had the best pvp and if you disagree youre wrong.

Having things worth fighting over is so much more important than these details. You can have the best pvp mechanics in the world but it doesn't matter if everyone's a fucking carebear.

>>386284424
>6/10 on steam
Elaborate.

>>386260827
>nigger ass
>Watermelon
makes sense.

>>386284962
If there was something worth fighting for then the game will just be open pvp everywhere all the time.

>>386285664
Great game ruined by it's shitty payment model.

>>386285748
What's wrong with that?
That's how MMOs used to be before WoW divided PvP and PvE.

>>386286349
Never said or iplied that mate. Just said that it will come naturally. Now mmos have artificial tasks with dumb rewards.

>>386280761
Isn't that the only reason to play games though?

>>386288260
Na. I play multiplayer games to establish some kind of order like trade routes or political circles and then act like a cunt towards everyone else, and they can't do anything to me cause if they kill me they miss out on resources or just get fucked up.

>>386262393
That doesn't suit any MMO that has inworld PVP though.

>>386260412
DAOC and Vanilla WoW was fun

>>386284962
yeah
like lineage castles
why mmo's dont do this anymore?

Archeage has the best combat both PvE and PvP of any MMO ive played in the past 2 decades. Unfortunately its gearing system is absolutely atrocious.

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>>386260412
>no pvp at all in the lead

so this, is the power of the PS4

i want a mmo to minmax and rape ppl in pvp
also a mmo that has a lively community and good guilds to make up for my nonexistant social life
yeah i know it doesnt exist

>wanting open pvp anywhere at all times
This literally just serves for griefers to jump people not interested in pvp, what happened to you as a child to make you think this is fun?

I voted for pvp anywhere no loot drop, but what I would actually prefer is PVP anywhere with loot drop only in some places and NPCs to protect players in some areas.

>>386289258
That's because no pvp has only one option while pvp has a ton. What concerns me is the "no death penalty open world pvp with no level restrictions" being most popular.

>>386289263
You just described Lineage 2, but it's only alive in private servers.

>>386289378
So what? I want freedom.
How am I supposed to backstab a cunt I don't like If I cant open pvp and my levels too low to duel?

>>386289378
There should be some punishment for outright PKing, but other than that, PvP should be open and people should be incetivised to group up and fight over farming spots, bosses, quest mob spawns, etc.

>>386290106
I'm being ganked on by 4 dudes right now and am hiding inside my crib in rust.
This sucks ass but this is why I bought the game, open pvp.

>>386275774

You can make losing in PvP undesirable in ways other than dropping loot. For one thing, wasting time *is* a punishment for death. If you want to kill monsters or do quests or gather materials in that place and the bad guys are killing you, you don't get to do that.

Additionally, you've still got access to things that cost the player but don't give their loot away to other players. Repair costs, fast travel taxes, all that shit that costs money but doesn't lose loot. It's important that the cost of losing in PvP isn't so devastating that the only people participating it are gank squads who only take fights that are a sure thing while the rest of the players avoid it.

>>386289715
so runescape?

>>386289378
It's pretty much how it's handled in EVE, which always has the best stories. People that go around griefing better hope they have backup because otherwise they're going to get killed themselves. It adds a new dynamic to the game and helps build communities. People don't act recklessly when they lose their shit upon death.

>>386290550
But it takes away all the fun off the open pvp part. Losing all your shit. You don't even need to be that engaged or feel engaged when traveling through dangerous places, Don't even need to look over your shoulder because you know that if you get killed you will only get a fast teleport.

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>>386260412
none of these
pvp between any level outside of major cities
levels shouldnt give such a huge advantage that it makes it impossible for low levels to compete. two players of equal skill, one max level, one lowest, should have only ~25% difference in performance
create a loot drop option that allows you to collect loot from players you killed that also have the option turned on.

>>386290703
Would you rather have a game where everyone avoids PvP as much as possible in fear of losing it all, or a game where PvP happens all over the place, from small skirmishes over farm spots to guild armies clashing over end-game bosses and castles?

>>386290892
That's the same thing?

>>386290864
Why even play then, if time spent playing the game isn't rewarded?

>>386290703
This. I remember taking any portal I saw a mage open up into a high level area, even as a low level character, because what's the worst that could happen? If I could lose my gear there's no way I'd be that reckless.

>>386290979
what about that isnt rewarding?

>>386290965
Anon, the more punishing PvP is, the less there will be.

>>386290106
open pvp full loot is the only answer. it's what made games like UO good.

PKing should not be punishable
this way new gamers would UNITE to survive
older guilds would make profit selling protection
it would make the world feel alive
casualfags commit sudoku

>>386290892
People don't avoid PvP when they can lose their inventory, they're just very very careful about it.

>>386291062
Tell that to EVE players.

>>386290892
Everyone avoiding pvp because it's too risky is some hypothetical scenario you've invented in your head. In most games with PvP people do a cost/benefit analysis before they attack somebody, which makes the risk/reward aspect interesting. You're just removing all the risk to incentivize people to attackattackattack with no real thought put into it.

>>386291039
Anon, what you described goes against RPG rules.
Someone who's at max level should 1shot someone that's low level.
Otherwise, it just becomes all about numbers.

>>386291175
that takes no skill and it's fucking stupid
endgame is cancerous and creates grind

>>386273619
The fall of that was such a disappointment. They completely threw away the emphasis on building construction they claimed it would have from the start and the whole thing turned into a grindfest with a community that only cared about grinding.

>>386291175
you're some kind of special retard
>Someone who's at max level should 1shot someone that's low level.
>Otherwise, it just becomes all about numbers.
That's literally numbers.

>>386291170
It depends on the game, really.
The MMO I played the most revolved around alot of PvP over PvE spots and endgame bosses, so having full loot on death would be counter-productive. It only had xp loss on death.
For me, PvP is about group battles, from parties fighting over spots to sieges and guild zergs fighting over endgame bosses. I can't perceive it any other way.

>>386291280
no its not
i have a sword bathed in the blood of virgin goddesses
you have a stick
obviously you should die in one hit

>>386260412
>play with 1000s of other people
>no pvp please

That's fucking retarded and I don't even like PvP that much.
Glad to see that the best option is on 2nd place at least.

>>386291372
No anon, I meant number of players.
If the difference between max level and lowest level is only 25%, then zerging becomes the only viable tactic in PvP. The side with the larger number will 100% win.
In traditional PvP MMOs, the most competitive groups will try to outplay each other by being ahead in levels or farm. Take that out of the equiation and it becomes just about outzerging.

>>386291592
What do you think war is?

>>386291405
PvP for me is being able to corpse camp someone until they have to log off or call in their guild.

>>386291764
Anon, you can't be serious.

>>386291592
>implying
the only difference is practicing to be genuinely better at pvp instead of grinding for gear and skillpoints

>>386291764
People have historically fought with far more than just raw numbers though, why do you think the stereotypical horde of native Americans with spears vs. European colonists is even a thing? Levels and gear are the in-game equivalent of technological advances if you want to go down the realism route.

>>386291990
I am. Amassing a load of players and coordinating them in away that they dont shoot each other is a hell of a skill.

>>386278218
>>386280094
>>386278486

Mortal Online could never be good because its design philosophy is fundamentally broken. There are so many things about it that simply come off as a result of total naivety on the part of the developers as to the consequences of the mechanics.

Currently, Chronicles of Elyria is the only totally open MMO that actually has its shit together with regard to actually creating sensible systems of conflict and resolution that is geared towards allowing dynamic alliances and meaningful things to fight over. It's only a matter of waiting to see if they actually have the chops to pull it off or if they fall on their face due to overambition.

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I loved Warhammer Online and RvR, but the two faction thing. sucked

They should have ignored elf faggotry and do a 3vs3 faction war like in DAoC:

>Empire/Dwarfs
>Greenskins (Orcs/Goblins)
>Chaos (only humanos but with different worship options)

>>386292015
I can accept that, but then it's not really an MMORPG anymore, is it?
Minmaxing, grinding efficiency, outgearing, are all parts of 'skill' in an MMORPG.
>>386292073
But that skill is required even if the players are high level anon. Try to play in a group that's part of a large guild in a PvP MMO, you'll see what I mean.

>>386260412
Either world PvP with full loot like early Ultima Online or arenas in any combination.

>>386260412
Dofus has good PVP open world option i feel

>>386264403
>shitty 2d isometric nonsense.
AKA ur mum. Ultima Online was the last bearable MMO game, anything after that is either themepark or faction-oriented PvP-fest.

>>386263167
looks like a frigid cunt.

Make a good combat system that has enough depth and flash to make people want to do PVP just to have fun

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>>386278250

>>386275960
WoW and Black Desert are two MMO's I can think of off the top of my head that have/had fishing gear

>>386290979
If you can't win with the handicap of playing the game longer and having more skills or spells to use then you deserve to lose. Otherwise I can see myself going through the same Korean MMO shit of choosing the best PK class, endless hours of gear grinding/upgrading and buying cash shop gear/buffs with 0 satisfaction.

please help me find a good mmo

Face of Mankind had an interesting spin on all that resources to fight for and open pvp thing.
You could fight anyone anywhere anytime and there were no levels because it was a third person shooter so the gear and your actually skill is what mattered. Also doing drugs to get an edge over your enemy.
How resources were handled was that your inventory was tiny so you couldnt carry anything really, killing players for loot was not a thin, besides edgelord kids doing it.
What players fought over were event based and you would fight over control over 1 whole map, if you owned the map everyone who is nt in your faction would pay taxes for crafting anything on that map, mining or other stuff.
The factions players could then take Faction missions to guard the area or do some other shit to get those taxes converted into their reall usable money.
Winning over another faction in a fight for a map depended a lot on how many dudes you have, if you could gear them all, if they understodd what the fuck they're even there for and how that directly affects their wallet, and having several commanders to guide the troops towards hacking points and nodes to defend the hacker (hacking was a proper minigame, took skill to master).
Too bad they fucked it all: made safe zones and a place where the chinese could glue their mouse1 and grind minerals without getting shot in the back and robbed.

>>386293459
EVE.
Looks difficult and convoluted but really isn't.

>>386293691
i am in a fantasy mood

>>386293782
You can fuck right off then. Go play with barbie dolls.

>>386293782
Albion Online. Tibia. Old School Runescape. FFXI private servers. Ragnarok Online private servers.

ESO or Guild Wars 2 next month when the expansion hits.

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>>386261491
>PvP becomes content that only hardcore twitch reflex gaymers get into
>majority of community avoids it because it's too difficult to get to that level of playing and the rest of the game is relatively slow paced to the point that the APM drops to ~10 for some stuff, if that
>developer conflates PvP and PvE and makes it so that in order to get the best PvE gear you have to have crazy PvP skills
>absolutely no way to get that gud unless you devote yourself to PvP for years, are korean, inject pure methamphetamine up your ass, or develop a second nervous system

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The only MMO I ever played for longer than an hour was DC Universe Online

The most fun I had was when I was a hero and suddenly being ambushed by villains and having to either fight him off, or cleverly escape and remember their name and make them my nemesis for the next while, or playing a villain and doing the same to heroes. There were no stakes to it, from what I remember, just stupid fun between players.

WE NEED A DOCTOR HERE FOR THIS THREAD.

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>>386295268

>>386295567
Not yet, doc. Do you have my prescription? My purple levels are low, and I'm deficient in green.

no pvp, the modern gaming community is a stain that doesn't understand open pvp does not mean mandated pvp

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>>386295726
Don't you worry my boy, just take one of these every day

>>386295868
pretty much.
Kids in rust literally claim that it is mandated because it exists.

>>386260412
This is hard. I'm trying WoW ascension for some open-world ffa pvp.

I guess I'd like to see an MMO try DarkSouls styled covenants and "invasion" style pvp. Mix WoW's open world and then have potential invasions in an instance.

Imagine doing trial of the crusader and invading an opposing faction's raid on the third boss-fight. Then perhaps coming together for cross-faction raiding at parts where it's "do-or-die", changing raids to 10 and 20 man for baseline and 20-40 man for cross-faction raid play.

>>386295975
thanks doc

Healing this thread.

>>386296952
>I guess I'd like to see an MMO try DarkSouls styled covenants and "invasion" style pvp.

That's a good part of what Souls was successfully able to pull off. It has actual PvP conflict that feels how 'non-consensual' PvP should in ways that MMOs have systematically failed to.

>>386298105
Imagine if players could create their own covenants and declare war to other covenants and even make alliances with some!
Oh wait, that already exists in actual MMOs...

>>386298282
Name one that isn't shit.

>>386298282
Yes, but it's always very regimented by my experience, when it should feel a bit more natural and player-driven.

>>386298358
lineage

what if when you died you losed all that is in your inventary and body? would be realistic and would be a reason to not die
would make mmo very nice

>>386298358
Depends on your definition of 'shit' anon.
Lineage/Lineage 2 and EvE immediately come to mind.
>>386298401
Player-made clans, negotiating player-made alliances on teamspeak, and player-driven clan wars are regimented?

>>386298865
i find amazing how lineage is still alive and there is not a single mmo better than it

>>386273679
>What is fun about a fresh player being on even footing as you, the person that has dumped their time into their character? What are you, a fucking casual?

If you put so many hours into your character you should be able to shit all over them anyway. Oh wait, MMOs have shitty combat that has the depth of a flowchart.

>>386299512
>Keep pressing these buttons and don't fall asleep.
>You win.
That's pretty stupid excuse of a combat system.
There are really simple ways to make a proper combat system without going into all the difficult to program properly contact combat.

>>386299103
No other MMO does what L2 does, that's why it's still alive. Unmatched PvP system, simple but deep mechanics, non-linear balancing, etc.