Why don't RPG games have cities anymore?

>>386148161
muh console limitations

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just you wait

You don't seriously want a RPG with a city that big, do you?

Important stuff is too bundled together or too far apart
Either way it doesn't feel like a city

because open world

fuck cities in rpgs. always too many characters and quests in a small location. Destroys the pacing.
Village > City

>anymore

Name one RPG with proper cities. Weebshit doesn't count because those aren't real RPGs

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>>386148161
>role playing game games

Because no one wants to deal with FF12-tier load times just to cross one street to the other.

>>386148367
Daggerfall

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>>386148367
Witcher 3

>>386148316
The best format is a medium sized world map with several populated villages and one centralized city with lots to do. Hand placed everything, nothing randomly generated.

>>386148367
>i define genres
ok

RPGs have never had Real cities. Even ones that took place entirely in a city.

>>386148282
I really do.
>>386148291
You can have a big city in an open world. Theoretically at least

>>386148487
Doesn't count.

>>386148204
Console limitations is one issue but in general the man hours needed to create so many different models and textures would be large and if theres not much to do other than talk to a few irrelevant NPCs and visit the inn/item store/blacksmith then it was just wasted money

Instead they need to work on the APPEARANCE of a large vast city so you still feel like you're in a big detailed place but really only go into a handful of buildings. Skyrim tried to do this but failed because they half-assed it.

>>386148367
Gothic 2. Khorinis.

>>386148367
Morrowind, even if it was only Vivec

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>>386148575
For what reason?

>>386148367
Dragon Age Origins

>>386148739
Too popular.

>>386148718
>Vivec
>Balmora
>Pelagiad
>Seyda Neen

The last two are villages but yeah.

>>386148739
It's from a game he doesn't like.

>>386148367
Baldur's Gate I and II
Arcanum
Neverwinter Nights II
Dragon Age
Mass Effect series
Final Fantasy VII

these games all have one main city but best I could come up with

>>386148548
>Wanting a city as big as your image
It's not possible to populate such a huge city with worthwhile NPCs. You're either gonna set your entire game on the city and it's probably gonna feel too empty or you try to make up for it (and fail miserably) with procedurally generated NPCs.

You are out of your mind, son.

>>386148802
Look I absolutely love Origins but Denerim was a let down.

>>386148902
Well yeah but I was thinking more of Orzammar.

>>386148809
balmora is a town, not a city. vivec is the only proper city in MW. imperial city in oblivion was also alright

Dragon Age 2 took place almost entirely in one big-ass city, and it got so fucking boring.

Small towns with more to do per square foot are way better than big cities with nothing to do in them.

>>386148998
Vivec was not the only proper city. Balmora was huge. Ebonhart. Mournhold. Morrowind had a few larger "towns" that I'd consider proper cities.

>>386148367
Dragon's Dogma

>>386148204
Bullshit. Console RPGs have had cities for generations.

>>386148739
Not an RPG.

>>386149126
It was a flaw in execution, not in design of the city itself. I rather liked Kirkwall but they limited it to like five areas, got lazy and remade the same five areas but at night, and gave us like three wilderness areas. We just needed more, and a better layout. If Kirkwall had been entirely open with more quests (that actually mattered) and more activities besides running around, it'd be great. Give us a jobs system, or allow us to become a merchant, or something.

Why don't OP's stop being faggots anymore?

>>386149307
I'm not even going to touch this. I assume you mean because you can't create a donut steel self insert character, which makes you a fucking retard. Not my fault you can't roleplay in a game unless it's some big booty anime girl with pink skin and modded tits.

>>386148585
Most buildings are built in a similar fasion, so the need for more than 10 models for buildings would be overkill. Even then, you could just use a building block system to combine different "modules" and change the shape of buildings.

textures are the same.

Interiors would be the most taxing on man hours. I've made a few interiors for games like skyrim and Fallout New Vegas and if you want them to be detailed it can take a while. Making a basic interior (like a house) only takes like 30 minutes though, keeping clutter to a realistic minimum and navmeshing as quickly as possible.

A large interior, like a lab or a dungeon with multiple different rooms and sufficient clutter can take a few hours including navmesh, maybe even a day if it's a really big dungeon, but you don't need a lot of those since they are rare.

For a city it would be pretty easy to make the interiors. Just make 10-15 different interiors, don't clutter them, and you can make interiors that are "assigned" to different exterior doors, then just clutter them differently and assign different actors to them, and you can make a city with over 100 buildings in about a month, maybe less. That's just an estimation, since I've never done something that large.

Then you would need to do things like arrange the exterior cells around a road system, making sure you have alleys, main roads, etc. Basically you are making the city layout itself with the buildings. Then place down exterior doors and assign them to the doors in the correct interior cells and you're done.

The main reason large cities aren't on console games is for disk space.

>>386148367
FF8 - Deling City
Checkmate, atheists

>>386148261
I had a dream last night the hackers leaked a alpha version of the game on the internet and it was fucking awesome

>>386148367
Vizima in Witcher 1 is one of the best cities I've ever explored in a game.

>>386148161
because cities are boring, just look at GTAV.

you faggots are thinking whole realised metropolitan areas are fun places, you autistic cunts need to go outside more often.

>>386149508
Estharfags on suicide watch

>>386149446
The other anon has a point actually. Most of the time you have very little input on Geralt's sayings and personality, and it feels more like playing GTA's story mode rather than a proper RPG

>>386149569

I'm still pissed that those hackers didn't leak a fucking thing but at the same time, I'm glad because it most likely would have made the wait worse for me.

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>>386149689
What's wrong with GTA 5? Los Santos is a small part of the map. I feel like it's one of the better balanced city/open world maps out there.

>>386148161
I'm all for cities in RPGs, but even I wouldn't want a city that big in an RPG. I'd never explore it all, it would be pointless.

>>386149716
> Most of the time you have very little input on Geralt's sayings and personality

That shit is a meme introduced by WRPGs in the last 10-15 years, and has only been considered 'standard' for the last 5 years. It's mostly shit mechanic that only games like The Witcher actually pull off.

There are 30 years worth of "proper rpgs" that don't do that bs illusion of choice garbage.

>>386148504
> hand placed everything
Now here's your problem. Sufficiently realistic cities are way too complex and organic and large for a team to reasonably populate "by hand." It becomes a "pick two" problem. Simulate the scale and structure and it feels alien and devoid of life(no man's sky). Simulate structure and history and you'll be crossing a "city" in a two minute walk(Skyrim, can be compensated for by limiting action to one street or neighborhood like yakuza, deus ex, shenmue). Simulate scale and history and you'll have a lot of empty or redundant space (assassins creed).

>>386148504
Yes because making all of that doesn't take a ton of workhours and money.

They don't make cities in RPG because it's a waste of resources spent on an area with relatively little gameplay content.

>>386149689

This. The best places for RPG's to take place in are hamlets, villages, countrysides, or port-towns. Cities/Metropolises will always be the worst because the buildings will always be inaccessible giant squares that remind you of the lifeless purple rectangle that was Reboot's 'INCOMING GAME.' GTA V failed because you can barely enter any buildings- not even any fast food restaurants. GTA V's city was a DOWNGRADE from the interactions found in VC, IV, and TBoGT. In my opinion, Novigrad in TW2 failed hugely as well because 85% of the doors are locked and there simply isn't enough recorded dialogue to feel like a bustling city. The most memorable interactions of Novigrad happen on its outskirts, not in the city walls proper. Once again- Village/Hamlet is always better than a city. RPG's, indeed stories, are best when you are intimate.

>>386149783
Not that anon, but Los Santos is much smaller than it should be, and instead of a diverse and well constructed city like we expected and deserved, we got a tiny blip of grey and brown downtown Hollywood streets, then 70% of the map was just wilderness with a few tiny villages here and there. But it's not even an RPG so those villages have nothing - no quests, no houses to enter, no npcs to talk to or explore. Oh yay, another little strip town I can drive through or pull over to punch someone.

It was a number of problems that all contributed to why the city portion failed. It had less activities to do than prior games, and the ones that did exist didn't do anything. Yoga? Why not stuff that lets you interact with the city and immerse yourself in what should have been a thriving town?

Nah, let's do yoga until you decide to fly through downtown for the billionth time in your supercar. But hey, you can pull over any time you want and shoot someone lol so sick man!

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But they do.

>>386148161
Brotherhood was the best AC just because Rome was awesome and fairly sizable.

Fuck the 5 houses make a city bullshit of TES.

>>386150138
Suppose that's fair. I only really play GTA Online so I've never really taken much consideration into the lack of shit to do in the city since most of the stuff is player generated content.

>>386150241
>half of the city is castle and can't even visit it
>dungeon is not even most of the castle

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Comfiest city right here.

>>386150241
More of a 3D skybox than a city.

>>386148367
city 17

>>386148739
Because Toussaint is better

>>386149242
that's not an RPG

>>386149783
is this armpit pussi

>>386148161
Open world.
And vidya audience being retarded.

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I just want something that would be as good as khorinis >>386150979
Is this that much to ask?

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Because everything is worse. Technology got better and it made everything FUCKING WORSE

>>386148161
I'm not 100% but I don't think the start fort shape works on such a large scale

>>386148998
Scale wise it makes sense. Don't forget that in the middle ages, which is what most fantasy worlds are based off of a city numbered like a few 10 thousand, which nowadays is a town. So if you have Vivec, which is a major city and has a hundred NPCs, than a town with 10 would still be quite sizable by comparison and could represent a decent hub.

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>>386148161
Shitty consoles drove bethesda to cut down in the city sizes, and don´t get me started with the cell change when entering any of them in skyrim because of that.
PC games should remain PC only.

>>386148878
What if the entire game is set inside of the large city such as the image OP posted

Until about 60% through the game where you can explore the outside of the wall.

>>386152809
You could live your entire life in a city that size and not see large chunks of it, not meet large portions of the population and you would never be inside even a percentage of the houses there. Why bother investing in making something so unnecessarily massive for a video game when you could spend your resources making the game actually good?

>>386152809
FF7 did that to some extent, the whole beginning (around 4-5 hours) was set up in Midgar
And you go back later
Still one of my favorite RPG city

>>386153268
Can you ever go back to the surface or only in the slums?

>>386153530
You go once on the surface

Dragon's Dogma has a nice city

>>386153973
With absolutely nothing in it. Same with Shitter 3.

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>>386148367
daggerfall

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>>386148161
Why don't you build it yourself?

>>386154270

>Witcher 3
>nothing in it

You all sure seem to count things as content only when it suits you.

>>386155919
Why hasn't there been a real followup to Black & White. Even B&W2 didn't quite get the same feel.

I feel like we should be able to make a significantly more complex and interesting game based around the same premise by now. The AI alone should be a lot better. The scale, graphics and physics could all be improved too.

and we could not have anyone singing songs about what they want

>>386148161
>insomnia was a literal street

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>>386148161
>the whole setting the promotion of the game based on for a decade is completely missing in the final game
Why is this allowed?

>>386155667

Daggerfall's city isn't proper in any sense of the word. Daggerfall is fucking enormous, but it's an extreme case of copy-paste.

>>386156884
I fucking hate how the loading screens shown loading screens from the city.

>>386153186
>Why bother investing in making something so unnecessarily massive for a video game when you could spend your resources making the game actually good?
Well, for starters because sense of scale and proportions matter you fucking idiot?

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>>386148161
Sleeping Dogs has a pretty good balance between size and content

>>386157560
Sure they do. So the next time I play Freespace I'm going to get butthurt that I don't have to fly for 14 hours to reach the battlespace, fire a shot, wait 6 minutes for it to arrive, then have to spend 14 hours flying back so I can vent my heat in an atmosphere etc etc. Scale and proportion can be abstract, such as in TES games where a "major city" might have 20 buildings, 65 NPCs and yet still feel reasonably, despite covering orders of magnitude less space than an empty wasteland like No Man's Sky. I know which is more fun, and which is larger and more "accurate".

The fact is that to generate a city of a million people, that actually looks and feels like a million people live there, is a task far beyond anything you will ever see in a video game. Ever. Because to make a million homes, that actually feel like a million distinct homes, with real streets, real personalities would be impossible for any level of designers.

If you can't get a sense of scale and proportion from an abstraction then you are better off going outside to experience reality, than trying to use an abstract medium (video games) to achieve something they cannot provide.

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>>386148161
>Skyrim had little to no writers
>Almost no RPG elements
>Towns were completely devoid of any interesting features except Whiterun's "Companions" lodge
>Bethesda says that they're so small because they're representations of the actual towns
>Mfw Bethesda has gotten this lazy and benighted with their main title

>>386148575
You don't count.

>>386158637
>Sure they do. So the next time I play Freespace I'm going to get butthurt that I don't have to fly for 14 hours to reach the battlespace,
Ever heard of Eve, Freelancer, X series or Elite you fucking mongoloid?
Also, you are comparing a MISSION BASED SPACE-SHOOTER TO AN OPEN WORLD RPG?!
Also also: great job of not being able to make a point without clearly absolutely silly hypebole that makes full all sense and proves how completely irrational you are about the point.

>The fact is that to generate a city of a million people,
Again, you god damn mongoloid, your entire point comes down to absurd exaggeration. What the fuck is actually wrong with you?

So in case you somehow still don't understand my problem: nobody is talking about actually rendering millions of houses you mongoloid. People talk about the difference between rendering 20 of them and 200 of them. And that is, while still abstracted, a major step that greatly alters the players sense of scale. That is the fucking point here.

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>>386148504
So, Oblivion?

>>386151409
you haven't played it? you should.

>>386159043
It's not really lazy per se, it's a misuse of resources. Once upon a time you would have a character with thousands of lines of dialogue, but all of it typed out by one person, and be incredibly cheap to do. Now you have a character with 30 lines of dialogue that took far more time and energy to produce, not to mention money since apparently we need to hire Sean Bean to voice him. Theoretically a house in Skyrim is more in depth than one in Morrowind, with more furniture, objects and the like, which would be ok, if other things weren't cut in the process. They have more shit in buildings, but only half as many of them, and most of that shit is useless and doesn't really make it feel more real. In fact it's often an uncanny valley effect where it feels less real because your attention is now drawn to how all those table plants look the same, and why is every bed more perfectly made than in boot camp, and why does everyone go inside at the exact same time every day and etc.

>>386159595
It's not a roleplaying game though.

Check out Arcanum. It has an excellent city (Tarant) *and* one of the best villages (Shrouded Hills).

>>386159623
You say that, yet every town in Oblivion completely blows Skyrim's out of the water, they're all fit with their own unique quest lines, stores, guild lodges, and churches. And every character is fully voiced.

I'd say it's a mixture of laziness and lack of development time on their behalf. Less in the case of Skyrim isn't more.

>>386159631
Of course it is.

>>386148504
I think there is a place for some light random generation in the mix.

>>386159883
Okay, go buy a house, get married, and open your own store in Dragon's Dogma.

Tell me if that works, please.

>>386148809
>Vivec

vivec was quite huge but such a boring design

>>386148161
Because it's easier to just have gas stations with the occasional diner and few houses/garages next to them.

>>386160024
Yeah... by that logic virtually no game RPG is actually an RPG with possibly the exception of Fable and maybe extremely heavily modded Beth games - ironically most of which are absolute garbage. So your fucking criteria are garbage, kiddo.

>>386160024
Those are some retarded criteria for what constitutes an RPG, but just for the sake of common ground, you can't open a store, but you do own a house (and get the option to buy another one later on) and you can marry.

>>386159269
>Ever heard of Eve, Freelancer, X series or Elite you fucking mongoloid?

Yes, and putting two dots on a black background and saying they're millions of miles apart does not a sense of scale make.

>Also, you are comparing a MISSION BASED SPACE-SHOOTER TO AN OPEN WORLD RPG?!

I'm sorry but apparently scale and proportion only matters when you say it does? An open world RPG can feel like a real world, or it can feel open and large but it will never be both to the extent you want it.

>Again, you god damn mongoloid, your entire point comes down to absurd exaggeration. What the fuck is actually wrong with you?

Look at the fucking OP picture. That is a million person city, and this thread is people complaining about why we can't have cities like that.

>So in case you somehow still don't understand my problem: nobody is talking about actually rendering millions of houses you mongoloid. People talk about the difference between rendering 20 of them and 200 of them. And that is, while still abstracted, a major step that greatly alters the players sense of scale. That is the fucking point here.

Um yeah they were, as right here >>386148548 but if you're barely able to read that's fine. And yeah the difference between rendering 20 and 200 is a ten fold difference. To achieve the same level of depth you would need literally 10 times the people, costing 10 times the money, or take a massive hit in the individuality of each structure. Now either you don't understand basic economic limitations, or you are perfectly willing to pay 10 times as much for the next Eldar Scrolls game. Either way I don't know how you think I'm the mongoloid here

>>386160242
So you can't partake in the simplest of RPG mechanics? So you're telling me Dragon's Dogma isn't an RPG game in that case? Alright.

>So your fucking criteria are garbage, kiddo.]
Not an argument. :^)

>>386148161
go play witcher 3 dumb nigger

>>386160312
>you can't open a store
Not an RPG in that case, keep defending a linear title with a barren wasteland of an environment though.

>>386160024
but you do have a house in DD and you more or less do get married at the end (your waifu moves in with you)

and many of the possible waifus run stores, so when they move into your house, they operate from your house turning your house into your own personal store. gg no re

>>386159826
Fair point, but Oblivion doesn't have "unending quests", or "next gen graphics" and the like so it was probably still much cheaper and a far better investment of resources. Skyrim is the perfect example of money-no-object thinking. We'll just throw a shit ton of money at all these geniuses and end up with an amazing product is how you end up with shit like Avatar. Looks flashy, normies love it, but it's shallow and shitty.

>>386160484
But can you talk to your wife and either be a loving husband or an abusive scumbag? Can you take all of the profits for yourself and divorce her later on?

No? Hmmm, not an RPG in that case, sweetie.

>>386160376
Any set of criteria that exclude Fallout from being considered an RPG is worthless.

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>>386148367
>weebshit doesn't count because those aren't real RPGs

>>386160376
By that logic, games that are universally considered the pinnacle of RPG genre in videogames, such as Fallout 1/2, Arcanum, Baldurs Gate, Gothic games, Planescape Torment, vanilla Morrowind, Wizardly and Ultima series, System Shock 1 etc... are not RPG's either.
In other words, your criteria clearly fail to actually align with the use of the term within this particular industry or with broader intuitions and agreements about the use of the term. And that is actually a sufficient argument. Now fuck off and stop pestering the thread - you are neither funny not particularly competent at trolling, you are just a waste of time.

>>386160471
To be honest, now that I know your pet definition of RPG, I don't feel like defending anything anymore.

>>386148367
Earthbound

>>386160594
>But can you talk to your wife and either be a loving husband or an abusive scumbag?

you can kill her if you want. and give her up to the dragon in exchange for a wish.

>>No? Hmmm, not an RPG in that case, sweetie.

you're so bad at trolling that the answer to most of these questions is yes lol


>Can you take all of the profits for yourself and divorce her later on?

that's not an RPG feature, that's more of a sandbox MMO or simulator or business tycoon kinda thing

>>386160716
Because none of those titles are genuine RPGs, genius.

>And that is actually a sufficient argument.
Sorry, just because you say it is doesn't make it one. Sorry that calling out your childhood favorite game for what it is makes your chins shiver.

>>386148367
Arcanum.

>>386160794
Why, because your game doesn't meet up to it? Alright.

>>386160821
That's an RPG feature, darling. If I wanna play the role of a greedy husband that gold digs his wife than I should be able to in Dragon's Dogma. If I can't, it's not an RPG.

>>386160907
Which games are you even thinking of here?

>can you talk to your wife and either be a loving husband or an abusive scumbag? Can you take all of the profits for yourself and divorce her later on?

>>386160562
Yeah, pretty much. Kinda bummed out that the Skyblivion remake of Oblivion will adopt Skyrim's combat system mainly because of how shallow/boring it is.

>>386161020
>That's an RPG feature, darling. If I wanna play the role of a greedy husband that gold digs his wife than I should be able to in Dragon's Dogma. If I can't, it's not an RPG.

then RPGs don't exist by your definition, good thing nobody goes by your definition then.

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I wish all of the cities in WoW were like Suramar.

I mean look at Dalaran right in view, it's tiny in comparison.

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>>386148827
>Final Fantasy 7

Take this shit off the list. All you did was explore the shitty ass slums. FF8 had a bigger proper city.

>>386161218
They do, you just have shit taste.

>>386161132
Roblox.

>>386160313
>Yes, and putting two dots on a black background and saying they're millions of miles apart does not a sense of scale make.
I don't think English language even HAS the words to describe how insanely stupid you are, and how utterly incapable of basic reasoning you seem to be.
Yes, actually. If you properly dress those things up, those will give you a sense of scale. Moving around in Elite, hell even the Freelancer gave you a sense of actually traversing the gallaxy. That is actually that ABSTRACTION you were just praising works.

>I'm sorry but apparently scale and proportion only matters when you say it does?
Yes. Sense of scale matters in different games differently. Genres and core mechanics and shit don't work the same way and for the same purposes inbetween genres. You can't apply open-world sandbox game logic to a linear Serious-Sam style FPS, for an example. This is something that should not actually have to be explained. Again: I don't think there is a way to properly express how dumb you are.

>Look at the fucking OP picture.
Not really, it does not seem particularly bigger than the cities in say, Just Cause games. If you pay closer attention, you'll notice that the entire southern quarter is like 35 buildings, most of which are copy-pasted silo-like structures.

Shit like this has been done in Sandbox games quite a few times already.

>To achieve the same level of depth you would need literally 10 times the people, costing 10 times the money,
Uh... I'm getting tired of even drawing attention to how dumb you are. No. You don't, actually. You have no idea what the production entails. This is just PAINFULLY AND INSANELY stupid and wrong.

Also, yeah, production costs might grow. But then again, sometimes you need to take extra work to make your vision come true. If you idea of game design is "you should not do X because it can be done cheaper" then you are really not going to get very far with your projects.

>>386148585
>Skyrim tried to do this

How did Skyrim try this? Skyrim cities are tiny as fuck.

Also, games like Sim City etc have already proven for years that you don't need a billion different building models/textures to make a decent looking large city that would still be far better than anything we normally see in RPGs.

>>386148161
>He thinks that hige city in Guild Wars 2 was good.
no

>>386160907
>Because none of those titles are genuine RPGs, genius.
You are not actually in any way qualified to make this judgement. What YOU think RPG should mean is of no relevance to anyone, so... yeah. I'm done wasting my time on you retard.

>>386161419
Well done, you made me think you had enough brain power to be worth arguing with for at least 2 posts before I caught on to how much I was wasting my time, 8/10.

>>386161020
>Why, because your game doesn't meet up to it? Alright.
No, it's because I cannot agree with your definition of "role-playing game". I just don't think that being able to get married, own a shop and buy a house should be the defining characteristics of the genre.

You can cling on to this definition, though. I'm not interested in changing your mind, which is why I said I've lost any interest in defending anything against you.

>>386161808
That has to be the most pathetic way to run away from losing argument I've seen in weak around here. And this is actually the most pathetic place on the internet. So... wow. Congratulations on that.

>>386160678
even fucking fallout 4 has more roleplay than most jrpg

>>386149689
GTAV wasn't bad because it took place in one city, it was bad because R* was lazy and didn't put anything in the fucking city due to consoles. Los Santos was too small and didn't have enough activities to do. If they gave the same amount of detail and content to 5's version of LS as they did in SA, or even in GTA4, it would have been far more vibrant and enjoyable to explore.

Make a big city, populate it with interesting and varied districts, pepper it with content like stores, sidequests, minigames, and other activities, and that's all you need. If you're going for a huge metropolis, throw in procedurally generated content and NPCs.

>>386161929
Whatever you say man

>>386162576
I haven't played Fallout 4, but come on, man. Most JRPGs really are pretty light on (out-of-combat) RPG elements.

>>386149265
12 huts and a cathedral does not constitutes as a city.

>>386161890
>uses "mongoloid" like 5 times in on post
>doesn't read entire thread
>thinks he was arguing not shitposting

Yep, I'm pretty sure I'm done here.

>>386164128
We have been done since you, in the face of such arguments as "you should not compare design of a linear mission-based space-arcade shooter to an open world RPG", or "if you seriously think that budget and work invested in environmental production is going to always scale linearly with size, you might not have the slightest clue about what the fuck you are talking about", you ended up just throwing insults.

Though, truth be told, we really were done around the time you started basing your arguments by insisting that your opponent is talking about millions of NPC or structures when that was not even close to what he stated.

Really, there has not been much of a discussion at all. It was just you consistently humiliating yourself, and me wasting time treating you like a human being for a while.

Also, if you don't want to be called a mongoloid, then don't act like a mongoloid. You really can't be surprised when people treat you with absolute contempt if you can't string together a single coherent point or post, yet you insist yourself smarter than others.

>>386161229
Dalaran was literally cut and paste.

>>386164719
Wow. You really a pro at trolling me it seems. So let me sort you right the fuck out.


>Though, truth be told, we really were done around the time you started basing your arguments by insisting that your opponent is talking about millions of NPC or structures when that was not even close to what he stated.

Sure that's not what >>386152809 said at all. The OP image is a city of at least 500k plus. At least.

Then I post >>386153186

So, completely ignoring the salient point of that little discussion you, being the dipshit you are come screaming in about how nobody wants what that guy was specifically saying he wanted, using a bunch of non sequiturs about scale and proportions. Then you go on missing the point several times, turning a half decent thread into a bunch of shitposting by yourself and myself being dumb enough to get roped into this. And then finally this last post you just made, where you try to pretend to be a third party, but halfway through post this

>Really, there has not been much of a discussion at all. It was just you consistently humiliating yourself, and me wasting time treating you like a human being for a while.

Thus giving away that you're just samefagging trying make it look like you've got me outnumbered when in fact all that's happened is that you've scared away everyone else with your brand of autism except for me, because my brand of autism is that I'm personally offended by how closely your parents are related and can't help resist trying to enlighten you.

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>>386159043

The worse part is that it is still considered one of the best game's of all time by the vidya community.

What in the fuck man.

>>386160242
he is right if you want an rpg play dnd or some shit.

>>386167986
No, he is not. RPG has an established meaning within game medium. You know, the one that is subject of this discussion and this board. You don't get to declare one medium form of something the only true, it's not how basic discourse works.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY IN THE ENTIRETY OF THE UNIVERSE actually cares what you think about this. Nobody gives two fucks that you prefer one over another, and people are even less interested in the fact that you are insecure enough to start screeching about how the one you might prefer is not the "real" deal.

>>386151778
all the hardcore nerds are now sought after commodity, you can literally freelance for 60 an hour and make your own schedule.

>>386149783
Rockstar is one of the few devs who actually make use of their open world, the large open space is used for car chases, races, evading the cops and is used haveily during actual missions, as opposed to most open worlds where the space is simply used to walk from point A to point B. Any game that relies heavily on fast travel is not making use of their open world, you're just using the space to walk endlessly that's why you wanna fast travel everywhere.

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>>386148261
70 more years

>>386168691
the definition is int he fucking name ROLE PLAYING GAME

>>386169460
It's 80 years dipshit. Learn to math.

>>386169349
The casino and horse track are never used.

>>386169571
Nope, it's not. Learn how definitions and meanings work, retard. Seriously, did you not actually go to highschool? How old are you?

>>386169750
then have fun with shitty repetitive gameplay and bullet sponges

>>386169717
just wait for the dlc

>>386170605
Unless they drop the MMO bullshit and give a proper sandbox with everything available from the start then I'm not playing again. Haven't touched it in years.

>>386169590
Fuck, sorry. The excitement made me hit the wrong key

>>386170570
Do you even play videogames, you god damn retard? Or do you literally just spend time going to boards about shit you actually don't know anything about only to announce how better you are because you don't enjoy that thing you don't even understand?

>>386148367
Why Dragon Age 2 of course!

>>386171646
I never said that "fake" rpgs are bad

>>386163012
JRPGs are heavier on mechanical RPG elements though.

>>386148161
The superior 12x12 grid employed in magnasanti CANNOT BE BEATEN >:]

>>386171882
>I never said that "fake" rpgs are bad
Uh...
>>386170570
>then have fun with shitty repetitive gameplay and bullet sponges

>>386148161
The open world meme killed them.

>>386171949
What elements are you refering to? You literally have no control over anything. You just grind and get stronger - thats it.

>>386171983
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGlhoUE86gA

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For all the complaints about the role-playing, Boston in Fallout 4 felt like an actual city.

>>386172002
yes most rpgs even the real one and even the good one play badly and have bullet sponges.

>>386148161
Because of Dark Souls. It was gift and a HUGE fucking curse to gaming. Everything has to be post-apocalyptic "hard" shit that kills you in 5 hits or less.

>>386172641
No it didn't.

>>386173219
Compared to Whiterun, yes it did.

>>386173395
That means absolutely nothing though. Skyrim cities were atrociously bad. Being better than them doesn't make Boston not shit, which it most certainly was.

>>386173540
Not an argument

>>386172641
It was literally not Boston.

>>386172641
Let me guess, Pete?

>>386173942
Brainlet, pls go.

>>386148316
You mean so many characters and quests in a small location is a God damn blessing to pacing and the best form of RPG story design possible

Devs should learn about city placement from VTMN and AC2.... IMO cities dwindled after 3D games became the norm; 2d cities are easier to make see Age of Decadence for example.

>>386172641
Boston felt like a maze with random spawn points at every second corner. There's little to no room for tactics nor retreat without triggering even more enemies.

The outer areas were better but the inner city was just a clusterfuck sprinkled with retarded shit (mutants hotel 15 steps from the entrance, blind patrols etc.) everywhere.

>>386148161
its not console limitations or any technical limitations here is why

>so play tester what do you think of the large and expansive city? we went to great lengths to make sure there was tons of asset variety, npcs who do their own thing, and we really put a lot of great unmarked quests throughout the area for you find while you explore!
>im not walking all the the way through this city to get a quest!
>i'm not gonna talk to every fucking npc to find a quest, where's the hub? why dont these people have exclamation marks above their heads?!
>why do i have to walk all the way to other side of the city to get the artisan district to buy a weapon?
>this city is too big and samey
>why don't these npcs stand still im not waiting for another game day to pass to talk to some guy to give me a quest!
>why do i have to keep coming to this city give me more zone variety!
>why isn't the more fast travel points!

>>386172641
Everything about Fallout 4's map makes no sense. Everything is laid out in a way that makes it obvious that whoever designed the map didn't put all too much thought into it

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>>386179663

>>386172641
Like Witcher 3, Fallout 4 is not an RPG

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>>386179663

This guy is right unfortunately.

>>386149742
>>386148261
I cannot wait for even the smallest new reveal of this game. Even just a CGI trailer showing off what concepts the game will entail.

>>386179663
>So play tester, what do you think of the large and expansive city?
This is something that has literally never happened though.

>>386182435
hey spotted one of the retarded beta testers

>>386182694
Nigger what the fuck are you talking about. What game has had an expansive fucking city?

>>386149936
Like witcher 2: assassin of kings enhanced edition ™

Clearly the superior game.

>>386152701
If DC universe can run on PS3 skyrim can have a few more building in place of their long stretches of boring forests, and valleys.

>>386160594
You're not very good at this are you

>>386169460
seems like you skipped your math classes

>>386148739
cuz /v/ is against mainstream why can you learn this simple fact normies

>>386183928
There's a difference between being against mainstream and being contrarian fags. Look at the constant shilling of Unknown Battlegrounds.