The Real Reason Nobody Plays Fighters

Why is mario in a fighting game thread?

>>386096029
Fighting games aren’t popular because humans are social beings.
There is nothing social about sitting at home or going to tournaments and playing 1v1 games. Humans like to interact with other humans to achieve their goals

>>386096356
Lmfao

>>386096356
Please check what you just wrote anon. And try thinking this time.

>>386096029
>Ever questioned why online games like Overwatch or Team Fortress are so popular?
Because there are few to no layers of bullshit involved with pointing and shooting at a guy to make them die. I don't need to press Mouse1 Mouse1 R Space Z X C ~ ASDSA Mouse2 to fire my grenade launcher and deal optimal damage.

I don't have to sit down for several hours each day alone in a Training room to learn how to play the game before I can actually play the game.

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>>386096139
This, at least use machamp from pokken or something, pokken at least has the same set of mechanics and fundamentals as traditional fighting games.

>>386096029
Figthers aren't very popular because they are the arguably the most competitive genre so you either get super autistic about it or you buy a fighting game, sink some time into it and then only bring it out again when you have some friends over.

>smash
>fighting game

Real question:
Does anyone here even play fighting games, aside from a few anons?

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>mario next to fighting game characters

I am so fucking tired of you delusional nintendronies.

Fighters are not popular because the skill floor is too high. It's almost impossible to introduce new players into the fighting game genre unless they're prepared for months to a year of practice. It's almost impossible to find someone at the same level of competency for any given player unless you're a turbo sperg who spends days training and competes in local tournaments. If you're anything less than that, you're going to be on a wide spectrum of total garbage to competent, and it's no fun for a competent player to blast a total garbage player for either involved.

It's also why Smash is the most popular fighting game--its skill floor is so low that even a new player has a decent chance of beating someone who is competent at the game, especially as you begin to introduce the randomness of stages and items.

>>386096029
Why was it so popular during the 90s then and arguably being the dominant genre at the time? Why is smash so popular? inb4 Smash is not a fighter, that's besides the point. Why did MKX sell millions of copies? SFV could have been huge but Capcom fucked it up.

>>386097259
>its skill floor is so low that even a new player has a decent chance of beating someone who is competent at the game
That is the biggest lie I've ever read.

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>>386096698
>scrubquotes.txt

>>386096029
I dont play fighting games cause I suck at them and feel like it would take a loooooooong time for me to improve so I don't bother

>>386097512
Maybe don't remove the quoted part from context then?
>especially as you begin to introduce the randomness of stages and items.
Randomness in any game immediately lowers the disparity between the best player and the worst. See: Mario Kart.

>>386096029
Its because they're easier to get into compared to fighting games. Fighting games generally expect you to already have an understanding of older fighting mechanics to really do well in them. Hell, even the very basics tend to be call backs to earlier games, like doing fireball motions.

The problem with that however is that newer players just don't have that experience. And to get to the point of doing well in the game, it requires not only a lot of memorization, but also mechanical training, which can put people off.

Compared to pretty much any other online game thats popular, and you will see that the barrier from entry to pro is relatively minor in comparison.

>>386097102
We have daily Street Fighter and Guilty Gear threads so yeah

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>>386096029
i play fightens (especially 2ho fightens) i just don't play online.

i used to really like those games, and spend hours on games like virtua fighter 2, virtua fighter kids or golden axe the dual. but you know op? fighten games aren't cute. so i stopped playing them when i got older.

>>386097512
Melee fags need to quit pretending like their game is the best "fighting" game in the world and how it's "so complex"

Fuck off and die smash babby

>>386096029
Fighters lack of popularity baffle me. Everyone cites FPS but Counter Strike is one of the most popular multiplayer games of all time and that's one of the easiest games to get destroyed at if you're a noob, not to mention waiting a minute or more after getting headshotted by an AWP player sucks balls. Whereas fighters it's just you vs the other player and you can go right back to playing after losing, you have to less wait then a minute to play another match (unless you're playing T7). I've grown up with both fighters and FPS, but I've played fighters with my dad and in the arcade as a kid whereas I remember playing CS in cafes with more experienced people as a kid so I guess my experience may be biased.

Fighting Game fans tend to be some of the most elitist assholes ever which can put people off playing the games.

Its mostly the tourneyfags and the wannabe tourneyfags, but they're generally the most annoying and off putting fanbase you'll ever associate with.

>>386098496
This sounds like every online shooting/MOBA fanbase. The fightan fanbase is pretty placid other than le hypppe XD

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>>386098432
Fighting games are hard to learn hard to master, relatively speaking. There are many MANY more games with similarly high skill ceilings, but with a much lower barrier to entry than fighting games that people can spend their time enjoying themselves with.

tl;dr too hardcore for mass appeal

>>386097259
This, really. I feel as though the typical game can introduce the player to enjoyment from the very start, while fighting games require weeks of practice to even reach a level where the gameplay becomes enjoyable. It's why games that are straightforward in their concept like shooter games(look at the guy, point your gun at him, shoot him) are more popular due to being able to 'play' from the very start while fighting games need hours of dedication to have any enjoyment at all.

>>386098683
To be fair, it can be. The upside though is that those communities can have at least some people who are more chill about it.

Fighting games more than anything seem to bring out the ultra competitive tourny wannabes however. From my experience, I genuinely can't recall a time where I've met someone who wasn't some turbo sperg when it comes to Fighting Games when they're into them.

>>386097762
>its skill floor is so low that even a new player has a decent chance of beating someone who is competent at the game, especially as you begin to introduce the randomness of stages and items.
It seemed like you're saying; only in smash a rookie has a good chance to beat a decent player, and adding items in only makes this chance greater. Hence why the skill floor is so low. But in 90% of fighting games it's possible for a rookie to beat a decent player by button mashing.
>>386098225
>Melee fags need to quit pretending like their game is the best "fighting" game in the world and how it's "so complex"
Nobody said that, fuck off.

>>386098496
>Fighting Game fans tend to be some of the most elitist assholes ever which can put people off playing the games.

HAHA. What a fag. Any game with a competitive scene acts like this. You think any games that are FPS or MOBA's don't have their fair share of elitist assholes?

>>386096029
I dont play fighters because I dont feel like learning a bunch of sequences of button presses just to play the game.

If you try playing a fighter you've never played before you wont even get 1 hit in.

shits gay, fuck that

>>386098820
>>386098868
So what are your guys thoughts on Fantasy Strike and Rising Thunder, are they a good way to get new blood into the genre or are they going about it the wrong way? Are fighters just inherently doomed to be niche? Why was it so popular during the 90s though, I guess lack of internet may have been different but still.

>>386096764
>fighting game must be fully traditional to be a fighting game
this is why fighting games outside of smash bros are going nowhere

>>386099009
Theres a difference between having elitist assholes and consisting of nothing but elitist assholes.

>>386098035
That is true, but most of those threads consist of footfags, and waifuposting.

>>386099009
This. The Overwatch community alone is truly insufferable. In fact, the FGC is actually pretty helpful. I've had a good time learning from them for the last year. My first fighter was SFV.

>>386096029
Fighting games are child's play compared to the real thing

Who the fuck cares?

If I'm the only one playing fighters and enjoying myself, My only concern is that the ai is good then

>>386096029

Ego protection is why most people play team based games like mobas or team shooters

Fightan has less of a problem with this than real 1v1 games like quake or toxikk, because in fightan you can still blame your own moveset or their character being overpowered or something.

If you start with a completely pure even playing field, it's even worse ego abuse when losing.

If you want to know the actual answer it's because people don't want to invest time into practicing. All my friends say this but yet they're jobless and spend all day playing DotA and watching TV shows. They simply want instant gratification which is something that the most popular games on steam offer right now. Multiplayer games that require low effort and investment to play but consistently reward the player. A game that you can just hop on and play with no need to worry about skill. It's also why loot crates are becoming so popular. Instant gratification and a nice dopamine kick that is addicting as fuck if you get a good drop

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>>386096698
> I don't have to sit down for several hours each day alone in a Training room

but that's the best part

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>>386099067
>Why was it so popular during the 90s though,

I think it's because the big generation of gamers who grew up in the 90s didn't have as much concern for time as they did now, i.e., when you're 9 years old you can spend 12 hours a day grinding away at high skill floor genres like fighting games without a care in the world. Now in our 20s, we have to budget our time against enjoyment, and anyone new to games these days just have too many low-barrier-to-entry options to consider fighting games. So yeah, doomed to nichedom I'd say.

>>386096029
That doesn't change shit because no one is gonna play Gundam and that's strictly team based. Actually, I'm really curious to know how that and Dissidia NT are going to be taken by regular fighting game people.

>>386096029
All these traditionalist faggots getting mad because smash is the only relevant fighting game and consistently churns out more viewers at every major, respectable tournament. Stay gluteusmaximallydevastated friends!

>>386099275
>SFV was my first game

You poor bastard.

>>386099558
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE DONT MAKE FUN OF MY FIDING VIDYA

>>386099430
Not they, but I don't really do that. I just watch some tournies and copy the combos they do, play online and watch recordings of my match, or just ask the person who beat me what I did wrong, and how they beat me.

>>386096029
My Internet only passes the bare minimum, so I can't get bodied online

But I'm still practicing. I can even do a combo

>>386099559
I think it's fun.

>>386096356
there is nothing more intimate than a 1v1 which is also why people dont like 1v1.

>>386099694
Good job anon. What fightan do you play?

>>386099559
SF2 was my first, then T6, then BB.

>>386099067
I'd have to say it will always be niche. Games like rising thunder make the entry for fighting games much more accessible, but I feel as though those games eliminate the core of fighting games: many layers of understanding, deep mechanics, and I feel it takes away a bit from the mind game aspect as well. Pushing individual buttons to use certain abilities is easy and all, but it takes away many options from the game already. Ex: you press 'X' on your controller to use a fireball instead of doing a quarter circle. Now the game has reduced the amount of special abilities that can be used due to having a button be wasted on a special AND a button has been taken away for normals.
If fighting games reduce their complexity and give into the wants of the mass market(easier games) then I feel the point of fighting games will have been ceased.

>>386096698
People might hate on anon for saying this, but he's right. Most of my friends who don't play fighting games have owned a Tekken, Soul Calibur, or Dead or Alive game in the past, and only stopped once online play became a thing. If you only look at the basic level, you can press a direction and press a button to attack in those games. Most of them have played Smash too. They wouldn't touch something like Guilty Gear unless they had easy mode though.

They don't want to have to study to play vidya, they just want to play it. I understand the feeling, as I try to avoid training mode for the most part, but pop in when I need to figure some shit out or learn a new game or character.

This is why Fantasy Strike has potential: It's fucking easy as shit. I got my brother who hates fighting games to play it, understand it, and enjoy it. On top of that, Fantasy Strike plays like an easier version of Super Turbo, and has more depth than SFV. It's still rough as fuck and needs some changes, but I like where it's going and hope it shapes into a great game.

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>>386099067
There's a bunch of reasons for why I think fighting games were more popular.
One thing to start with is that games as a whole were more niche in the 90, so if you were playing games, you weren't some casual who wasn't willing to put hours into it to get good.
Another thing is that arcade culture was different and also so was the tech. The only games where you could challenge someone directly ( not high score based) was with a racing game or a fighting game, and one has alot more depth than the other, or can also be seen as a real fight between two people.
There's a few more reasons I could prob think of but I don't care enough nor have the time
.
As for the fighters that are coming out that are simplifying inputs and stuff.
I, to be frank, wont think they will last. People who don't play fighters will find another thing they don't understand about them and complain. While sure alot of things are eased at the end of the day a better player will still destroy a worse player or else its a bad fighting game. What is the point of a skill based game where skill amounts to nothing.
Also alot of people still won't look at a loss, accept that it was their own fault, and try to learn from their mistakes, most likely they will just call something cheap or the person a bitch for using a move instead of trying to learn how to counter it.
Hell i could go on about my feelings about that but it's something I can really only discuss effectively with words, even now i don't really want to read this over so it's prob all over the place, hope I at least got some things across.

>>386098051
not sure if sarcasm

>>386099067
>Rising Thunder
No. Rising Thunder was actually TOO complex for new players. The game had a fucking Roman Cancel for crying out loud. On top of that, new players get confused when there are too many buttons. Rising Thunder had 7, which is actually more than fucking Street Fighter. To make things worse, the "Abilities have cooldowns" mechanic didn't make for the most interesting gameplay, and playstyles weren't different enough.
>Fantasy Strike
Honest to god has a chance. It looks like butt, but then you pick it up and realize it's fun as fuck. Feels like a successor to SF2. Still unpolished, and could use a few tweaks, but it works out in the end.

>>386100487
I disagree. Fighting Games changed significantly since SF2 and Mortal Kombat exploded. Some people complain that they've gotten easier since the SF4 era, but that's a very limited view of things. The only thing that has really gotten easier is shit like inputs, while the games add more movement options, more mechanics, and keep combos long.

Virtua Fighter seemed to be the only game that actually looked at their core mechanics and thought "Actually, we should take a second look at this". Because of this, VF5FS has the best grab system in any fighting game, a movement system that has depth but is also intuitive, and a redone jump system that doesn't feel as janky. Capcom, SNK, Arcsys, Namco, or anyone else would have just slapped some new mechanics (Or mechanics they borrowed from someone else) on to the box, and called it a day.

>>386102064
You might be right about people who don't play fighters finding something else to complain about, but I'm hopeful for Fantasy Strike. It still has most of the depth of SF2, but with easier controls and design decisions that point players in the direction of playing smart. I gave Rising Thunder to some fighting casuals, and they didn't really improve. With Fantasy Strike I could see them actually thinking and improving. If any game has a shot, it's that one.

>>386096435
>>386096584
Not a argument

VF>Tekken

>>386096029

>Fighting games have absolutely nobody to blame but yourself when you lose. So why can't you take responsibility for sucking at fightan

But i do, and thats why I don't play them.

Fighting games arent fun unless you are good, but online games can be fun whenever.

>>386097259
>Smash is more friendly to new players
I can both prove and disprove this statement

>friends are hyped for Smash 4
>decide to try it
>I had never played before, friends were Melee veterans
>won my first ever match

Some time later

>have another friend who plays Mortal Kombat
>ask him if he wants to try Smash
>he agrees
>try to explain the controls
>he says "I'd rather just mash the buttons"
>I go easy on him
>he dies three times, two of which because he spiked himself off the stage
>he now firmly believes the game is objectively bad

>>386099728
hey, me too

>>386096029
All multiplayer games are gay.

>>386106090
That says more about your friends than it does anything else.

Overwatch is more popular with normies than Mario has been in the past 20 years. It's mostly nerds and manchildren who are excited for the upcoming Mario game. But why?

>>386106915
Because it looks fun, I guess.

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>>386096356

then i blame the devs or my internet

>>386096029
Not when there's very little balance in the game. People can easily steam roll most of the Smash cast just by using certain characters.

>>386106915
Obligation to champion Mario because he invented videogames and "deserves" the upmost respect (review score bump)

>>386096029
I don't play fighting games because I don't know anyone who plays fighting games. Add to that Australian internet and I'll just sit the fuck out.

>>386099140
Pokken is far from being fully traditional, though. It's a good example of a fighting game being truly experimental while still actually keeping the core of what a traditional fighting game is.

As a Mexican i grew playing King of fighters in arcades and stores, i'm pretty sad that it's still easier to play the game in the arcades than online but a lot of the people that plays the game or Street fighter usually don't play anything else, they just know fighting games

>>386096029
That makes no sense, because games like Mario Kart are extremely popular.
The real reason is because fighting games are hard to learn, and most people just don't give a fuck about putting the time into that.
It's why Smash is so popular. It's easy to learn, because it was developed as a party game. There's no special inputs or anything.

>>386097102
Me. Fighting games are fucking hard and if I never grinded them out while I was 14 I would have dropped them like I did to League of Legends

>>386096029
Is it wrong if I like them for the very same reason? I remember getting destroyed by better players, but watching and taking mental notes on what to do/don't and putting it into practice is part of the fun, isn't it?

Though beat em ups and fightan games have been in my life since childhood so maybe that has something to do with it.

>>386096029

More like if you're playing a team based shooter you don't have to be that good and you can still win because you can get carried to victory by other players and you can get the odd kill or contribute in some case and death is only a short setback.

In a Fighter if you're not good its just an endless frustration where you'll just keep losing. Fighters are pretty much destined to become niche as they do nothing but discourage lower skilled players from playing, Why would you keep coming back to a game you keep losing?

>>386108589
Ryu actually has special inputs, and so do C.Falcon and Ganon's neutral b. Along with Marth/Roy/Lucina's side b.

>>386108831
Nobody likes to get bodied by something they find cheap, but you're right that eventually overcoming it is fun.

>>386108589
Mario Kart is popular because it's something that people pull out at social gatherings and odds are nobody grinds it out. Plus there is a huge randomness factor people can blame losing on.

>>386096139

Namco made the last a smash it's a fightan

>>386108589

In Mario Kart even if you lose quite badly you still get to enjoy driving the track and getting good items. In a Fighter if you lose badly you practically don't get to do anything but be the other player's punching bag.

>>386096910
fighting games suck for that too because once you develop any skill you just beat your friends every time and they don't wanna play anymore. as a matter of fact that's the main problem i have with them, none of my friends want to git gud or if they try to they just end up getting frustrated after losing for a few more days then they quit

>>386099193
Yes, so how exactly does that exclude FPS or MOBA's, which are just that.

Especially fucking Dota. You think Dota is welcoming? Are you fucking dense, Dota is literally only got popular to begin with because people sucked shit at Warcraft 3 and cried to Blizzard to support the fucking game because they were good at it. Dota is literally what Meleefags are but worse in every conceivable way.

>>386109183
Hasn't namco always helped with smash? I remember in an interview Sakurai mentioned if he wanted to make a fighting game, those were the best people for it, that he knew of.

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>>386096029
>have to listen to people around me play assfaggots all the time
>"why do I always get paired up with shit players"
>"why can I never win"
>"every time I play with you I lose"
>"fuck you don't ks me"
>"my teammates are shit"

is it so hard to admit you're the problem?

>>386098225
You sound like a salty cunt

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>>386096356

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>>386096139

Honestly the FGC would not give a fuck about melee if it wasn't at evo

>>386109324
Are you having trouble understanding what was said or something? Having some people acting like that is different than the entire community acting like that. And yes, MOBA communities are pretty fucking bad. I would even dare to say almost as bad as fighting game communities.

Every other community has people like that, sure. But Fighting game communities are pretty much exclusively people like that.

>>386109581
>Honestly the FGC would not give a fuck about _________ if it wasn't at evo

Fixed

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>>386109581
Smash players in general don't care much about fighting games at large. It's weird, Smash players, Melee players specifically crave validation from the fighting game community at large while still seemingly wanting nothing to do with them or the games. It's probably because they want the prestige associated with fighting games, that they're generally thought of as difficult.

>>386109694
but melee is more difficult than other current traditional fighters

>>386101569
But Guilty Gear has an easy mode - you can choose Stylish and it allows one button combos and specials.

I do agree with your points though. I don't think Fighting games will ever become mainstream unless they change something significant about themselves. But that's not really a bad thing. A game genre can be niche and still be great.

I'm looking at the Fantasy Strike Crowdfunding campaign and while the game seems fun, the campaign seems like it'll never reach it's goal. Do you think it's a good investment?

>>386109870
That's not what I'm arguing nor to I care. It's about public perception.

>>386096356
>fighting game tournaments exist before there are online tournaments for basically anything else except FPS
>not social
Fighting games are the most social because so much of them take place away from the computer. They all started grassroots as fuck and unlike MOBAs/Overwatch/whatever, you can't just socialize with the same 4 people on your "squad." You are constantly making friends and rivalries in fighting games as you push yourself up. First take at least a round. Then take at least a game. Then don't drown in pools. Then consistently make bracket. Then make top 16. Top 8. Top 3.

>>386096029
i can which is why i play arena fps
it has a higher skill cap and floor and isn't a mindless masher

Fighting games play like shit online with any kind of input lag, and are basically only enjoyable if you got to locals anyway.

>>386110052
>it has a higher skill cap and floor and isn't a mindless masher
What shooters do you play?

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>>386096029
>Ever questioned why online games like Overwatch or Team Fortress are so popular? Because it's easy to blame you're teammates on losing. Fighting games have absolutely nobody to blame but yourself when you lose. So why can't you take responsibility for sucking at fightan and git gud /v/?

That isn't why.

Fighting games are everything most people are put off by
>constant repetition and grind
>can't stop playing it or else you get rusty fast, you have to play it non-stop
>eats up huge amounts of time, one of the most time consuming genres
>often needlessly complex with button combinations and combos
>too much guesswork involved (unlike when you fight IRL)
>neither the games or the communities are newcomer friendly
>playing online is absolute shit most of the time due to netcode and even 1 frame drop can mess you up
>all that time and dedication yet you will be almost guaranteed to achieve nothing, even the world largest fighting game tournament is turning into a joke so it's not even worth it for that
>etc

It's just as useless as trying to "git gud" at something like Dota 2. You will waste your life away on a mostly unpleasant experience, no glory and only nuggets of actual enjoyment

>>386110248
Nigger, you have it all wrong. Fighting games give some of the best rushes of dopamine possible for video games but most people never get to the base level where execution isn't a thought anymore and your brain is 100% thinking. Great example is Tokido vs Punk at EVO this year. In the GF set you can see Tokido get into Punk's head and then Tokido starts running the train. It's the whole GOTCHA BITCH zen flow you hit where it all comes together that is godlike.

I stopped playing fighting games because my closest local is a 2 hour drive and the closest major is a 3 and 1/2 hour drive. Netplay is still pretty ass in general with Fightcade or Skullgirls being the only options where games are somewhat meaningful.

It's just not feasible anymore now that I'm out of college and have a job. It also doesn't help that I'm not particularly fond of any of the fighting games out right now.

>>386097267
No online. Back then fighting games were usually either just some friends playing at home or fighting randoms at arcades and barring the occasional encounter with a guy who was ridiculously good most of the time you'd be fighting people on or around your level. Smash is popular because it's incredibly friendly to new players and pretty much anyone can just jump in and have fun playing with a large cast of recognizable characters. MK also does well because it has a good presentation and always has a lot of single player content to keep people who don't want to get wrecked online interested, something Smash also has. Capcom's biggest problem right now just seems to be an unwillingness or inability to put in the time and money required to make a full package that appeals to a wider audience and the worse the games do the more the budgets shrink leading to a vicious cycle of continually diminishing returns.

>>386109581
Also evo being best of 3 is a joke

Oh and the brand new bullshit coaching rules that proves Mr.wizard has no idea what he's doing

Fighting games aren't popular because they aren't fun. The only reason people play them is to feel competitive and master characters/gameplay. It's weapons grade autism that fuels the fighting game community.

Why do people think one button specials are going to make fighting games more palatable for normies? They would have to get rid of option selects, mix ups, cross ups, overheads, resets, vortex set ups, meaties, and all sorts of shit to make it so normies can actually play fighting games.

Specials aren't even the meat of fighting games.

>>386110468
Coaching has no place during sets in a tournament. It's pathetic anyone thinks this is okay. Keep it between sets in your bracket. Keep coaches away from the players but don't restrict what players say or yell if it's during the match itself and they are cheering.

>>386097267
There were several arcades and offline communities that helped it thrive.

Now arcades are dead and the netcode for fighting games is still miles behind almost any other genre. Which is sad considering how much more important low delay is for the genre.

Fighting games just aren't worth playing anymore unless you live in a large city or are okay with spending all of your money on travel.

>>386110417
>Fighting games give some of the best rushes of dopamine possible for video games

After 10 years of fighting games, participating in online and local tourneys I couldn't disagree more.
Then again, Dota 2 players say the same thing as you but these are the kind of players that are angry when they win.

I recently started training MMA and it has given me 100x more of a rush than fighting games ever did.

Also dopamine isn't what you think it is.

>>386096356
>There is nothing social about sitting at home

YOU ARE ON A BOARD ABOUT VIDEOGAMES ANON ARE YOU DUMB?

>>386097512
Not a lie for smash 4.

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>>386099283
Well no shit Van Damme

>>386110748
It is.

>>386110656
>I recently started training MMA and it has given me 100x more of a rush than fighting games ever did
I see getting hit in the face damaged your brain. Reread what I said.
>It is released during pleasurable situations and stimulates one to seek out the pleasurable activity or occupation. This means food, sex, and several drugs of abuse are also stimulants of dopamine release in the brain, particularly in areas such as the nucleus accumbens and prefrontal cortex.
One of the things dopamine does is tell your body to seek out whatever pleasure you just got.

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git gud has meaning

>>386110606
I was talking about the new streaming rules

Apparently coaching is legal at all times EXCEPT when its on stream

So basically hbox can deny to play on stream until top 8

>>386110934
Well that is retarded as fuck. I stand by what I said before though. Coaching is ridiculous mid-set and it's poor manners ontop of that.

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>>386096029
>Because it's easy to blame you're teammates on losing.
Except there's an easy way to check to see if it's actually you fucking up. If you're the DPS don't have the most or second most kills/elims then you're fucking up and bringing down your team. If you're healing or tank and your teammates keep dying, and it's not because they keep suiciding by diving in a lone, then you're not doing your job. It's hard for some people to accept, but you CAN tell if you're the weak link on your team or not. If you're leading the scoreboards, you're not the one fucking up and you can blame your teammates. If you finish bottom of the pack, then you got carried.

This shit isn't hard, figuring out how you're doing relative to your team is easy as shit.

>>386110248
The only legit complaint is
>playing online is absolute shit most of the time due to netcode and even 1 frame drop can mess you up
The rest just makes it seem like you don't wanna put in the work. Also inputs aren't hard.

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Wont to get into fighting game dont know what to pick help me guys
GG or BB

>>386110748
Yeah that's bullshit. 4 is slower and less technical that melee, but it currently has a fairly explored meta. A new person won't be able to deal with something like the Fox vortex.

>>386111482
There are other games you know. Try getting Fightcade.

>>386110910
>I see getting hit in the face damaged your brain. Reread what I said.

Yeah, you're talking about top players, not yourself.
That zen flow you're talking about is just pattern recognition, muscle memory and lucky guesswork.
If that gives you a rush, then lucky you.

>One of the things dopamine does is tell your body to seek out whatever pleasure you just got.

It's tied to addiction. You think addiction is something positive?

>>386111551
Already know that place but wont something for my ps4

>>386096029

just made a thread about this on the pubg reply

it embodies everything i hate about shooters here in 2017

>tons of random shit
>infinite ego protection (i didn't lose because I suck, I lost because of X Y and Z (other players getting better weapons, bad spawns, people ganging up on me, whatever, anything other than my own skill))

it's almost like these two things are required for a shooter to be successful, which is why most shooters that are remotely successful are things like R6S or Overwatch or whatever, class-based or hero based bullshit where its asymmetrical and i can blame something other than my own bad aim and positioning for why i lost, etc.

meanwhile i'm just here playing reflex. ;/

here

fightan has at least some ego protection you can blame movesets or character imbalance or tier list or lag or input or whatever, but arena shooters and gook-click RTS offer much less of that

(iccup broodwar and quake live 2009 IEM quarter finalist here)

>>386111772
I like GG more. But maybe you should look up tutorials on the characters, and features in the games, to see what you like. Then buy which one appeals to you more.

>>386111320
>The rest just makes it seem like you don't wanna put in the work.

I'm talking in general.
Also yes something being massively time consuming with little to no payoff isn't worth it. Most people that play fighting games are "salty" pretty frequently. That isn't them having a good time.

Also you can spend your time in a far more effective manner. You can play more games, train a martial art IRL (and get far more benefits), etc.
I personally have no problem with hard work, so long as it is worthwhile. But most people aren't even into hard work/time consuming shit. This combined with how shit it is to get into a fighting game (we're talking a huge hurdle just to get going) makes it massively inaccessible to newcomers. This is also often due to the community itself being frankly fucking retarded.

>>386096029
>Fighting games have absolutely nobody to blame but yourself when you lose.
What about when I'm pushing the buttons but nothing happens?

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who should I play in tekken if I play Gief in SFV and Marth in melee

>>386096029
>Fighting games have absolutely nobody to blame but yourself when you lose.

I dunno, DSP seems fine with blaming poor game balance and lag.
Then again it's DSP.

>>386111482
i really like gg and it has a really good tutorial so play gg.

both are still really good, and you might want to also check out unist once it gets localized because it has an amazing tutorial

>>386111482
UNIST
Pick the game that has the character you like the most, for me it was BB because tager magnetism was fun as fuck.
However now I cant stop playing Eltnum so rip BB for me

>>386109694
>implying I don't play melee, sm4sh, Tekken, and GGXrd

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>>386096029
>Fighting games have absolutely nobody to blame but yourself when you lose.

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>>386097259
This is exactly my reasoning. It's not easily approachable. The first enemy you have to beat in Street Fighter isn't an actual opponent, it's the controls. It's learning how to jump in a direction when you need to. It's learning what you're doing wrong with your input for a special move that you swear you're doing right. It's learning how to follow up an advanced input with another advanced input not just in the time it takes for the game to register as "yes, you wanted to do this move," but faster than your opponent to recover. No other game type makes something as completely utterly basic as jumping something new players can fuck up doing. No other game type is so reliant on strings of inputs which can be easily done wrong. No other game type relies on deliberate mastery of the controls and strings of commands to do something in other game types is as simple as pointing a crosshair at someone's head.

No one wants to go into a training room and punch an idle computer character trying to learn how to fucking play the game after a hundred hours of already playing the game when you could learn to click heads within the same amount of time in an FPS.

>>386097259
I don't think you know what "skill floor" means. You are talking about skill gap there.

>>386111960
>Also yes something being massively time consuming with little to no payoff isn't worth it. Most people that play fighting games are "salty" pretty frequently. That isn't them having a good time.
You can get paid good money to play fighting games, and to shill them. Also getting salty after you lose, happens in most competitive sports and games. Just because you're salty doesn't mean you hate the game, it just means you're angry that you lost.
>Also you can spend your time in a far more effective manner. You can play more games, train a martial art IRL (and get far more benefits), etc.
I personally have no problem with hard work, so long as it is worthwhile. But most people aren't even into hard work/time consuming shit. This combined with how shit it is to get into a fighting game (we're talking a huge hurdle just to get going) makes it massively inaccessible to newcomers. This is also often due to the community itself being frankly fucking retarded.
Like I said, you can get paid if you're a pro at fighting games, shill them, or if you do twitch and people like you. You can even make money off of giving people lessons. That's pretty effective if you ask me.

>>386108418
>while still actually keeping the core of what a traditional fighting game is.

Why do you faggots care so much about this though? I mean, what do games that build up systems that try to replicate martial arts movies, fencing/kendo, boxing matches, actual street fights etc. do that makes them less worthy of being called 'fighting games' compared to games where you fucking crouch to defend against low kicks? Why not just call them 'arcade fighters' and be done with it?

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>>386112428

>people unironically have trouble rolling forward or backwards on a dpad/stick

you all are the cancer killing gaming

>>386096029
>implying that's why i dont play fighters

NIGGA I GET SHIT ON

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>>386112852
Do you think getting upset at me over the internet because I think fighting game controls get in the way of playing the game is an argument or are you just easily irate over other people's opinions

>>386113281
Not him but inputs are easy as crap.

>>386112852
>implying special moves are the only skill floor
Do you actually play fighting games?

>>386113384
Not on any controller I've ever held in my life. I'm thinking of trying out a fighting game on PC just so I could use my fucking keyboard for inputs and not have to deal with shoddy D-Pads and circular sticks as well as not buying a fightstick just to control the game with the same amount of competence that would be taken for granted in literally any other genre of game.

>>386096029
I just never really played many fighters growing up so I wouldn't know what one to pick up, what seperates a good fighter from a bad?
I liked injustice for the story but apparently it's shit to most fighting fags

>>386113281
The biggest problem I have with the controls augment is that for some reason people only think they are actually playing the game once they've obtained competency. Like as if they can't perfect their opponent means they aren't playing the game right. You know what happens when shitters play against each other? They mostly just hit sweeps as their hardest punish. You don't need perfect block strings or the ability to dp to beat that.

>>386113495

In terms of "fighting controls" they pretty much are which is what everybody is bitching about itt. Links, cancels, etc. are above what I would consider a skill floor. Besides that most modern fighters are easy as shit execution-wise. Magneto's rom loops in MvC2 are harder than anything I've done in any fighting game released in the last 7 years

>>386112852
Its not havin trouble doing the motion, its more trouble doing it when you want to. Pretty much no other game out there makes it so that jumping can be accidentally done while inputting another command.

Well, with the exception of other games that handle jumping the same way anyhow.

>>386112795
>You can get paid good money to play fighting games, and to shill them

Most people don't.
I mean you can earn a metric fuckton of money if you win the Dota 2 international, but will most players earn that kind of money? Nope.

>Also getting salty after you lose

People are salty even when they win. Or rather annoyed/upset. This can be due to various things like lag, imbalanced matchup, the opponent and so on.
Most of the time spent on fighting games will not be fun. You're putting in tons of work to try and reach said fun. Basically, all that hard work has to be worth it, right?

>>386113605
>apparently it's shit to most fighting fags
There's always going to be fags shitting on other games they don't play. Just look at this whole board.

>>386112172
my brother of african american descent

>>386103806
>Virtua Fighter seemed to be the only game that actually looked at their core mechanics and thought "Actually, we should take a second look at this". Because of this, VF5FS has the best grab system in any fighting game, a movement system that has depth but is also intuitive, and a redone jump system that doesn't feel as janky.

I have no fucking idea why they don't just revive Tobal, update it by incorporating some of the innovations VF make, market the fuck out of it and call it a day.

>>386096029
Well, to be honest, I thought I would hate fighting games. Recently, though, I purchased BlazBlue: Calamity Trigger when it was super discounted in the recent publisher sale on steam. Was expecting to have a bad time trying to input things on keyboard. It was a lot easier than I was expecting, and when I plugged in a controller it was actually twice as hard for me.

On an unrelated note, buying Continuum Shift, Chronophantasma Extend, and Central Fiction as soon as possible.

>>386114803
>
Most people don't.
I mean you can earn a metric fuckton of money if you win the Dota 2 international, but will most players earn that kind of money? Nope.
You can still get about 100+ at locals.
>People are salty even when they win. Or rather annoyed/upset. This can be due to various things like lag, imbalanced matchup, the opponent and so on.
Most of the time spent on fighting games will not be fun. You're putting in tons of work to try and reach said fun. Basically, all that hard work has to be worth it, right?
I have yet to see that, and even with that being said, that can happen in any sport or game.

>>386115839
what? just get CF

>>386109215
so find ur local scene, faggot

I don't play fighters anymore because they are only fun in local coop.
And I can't play local coop because all of my friends moved away

>>386115928
In all honesty I was going to write that, but people her who are into a franchise sometimes get on your case for not getting all of them, so it's a lot easier to just write that.

Fighting games are generally one dimensional. In other games you have the ability to do different things to contribute to the win.

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>>386115990
who the fuck cares? don't waste your money

>>386110910
>I see getting hit in the face damaged your brain. Reread what I said.

Loving this salt. One of the biggest issues with fighting games as a genre is how little control they give you compared to what you can do with your body IRL and neither the devs nor the player community care to create anything better. I concur that doing martial arts beats the shit out of any Street Fighter match I've had.

>>386115903
Usually hard work leads to better fun than fun just being handed to you
Takes a good mindset to get through the hard work and if you don't have it, tough luck. You're missing out

>>386109613
>Are you having trouble understanding what was said or something?

Not him, but no, we all understood you perfectly.
We're just calling you an idiot, because what you said is complete and total bullshit.

>>386116101
>One of the biggest issues with fighting games as a genre is how little control they give you compared to what you can do with your body IRL
not him but lol
play arms or something

you're just giving your enemies, fighting game players, a good laugh with your retarded reasons and excuses

>>386116192
Sure it is, keep tellin yourself that.

>>386116074
>Fighting games are generally one dimensional.

Quite literally. You generally move back and forth along a single axis and even jump arcs are typically set in stone with only a few variations.

>be me
>try out a new fighting game
>mess around against CPUs and try a few characters
>play tutorials
>try out all characters in a few fights each and decide which is my favourite
>practice with a few favorites against CPUs to get comfortable with the game
>eventually stomp max-level CPUs with ease
>play online
>get bodied by absolutely everyone
>get discouraged and try CPUs again, try different characters etc
>CPUs are still way too easy and are becoming overly predictable
>fighting CPUs gets boring as fuck
>can't get any better beating garbage CPUs
>still can't compete against players because they combo me from 0-death all the time
>none of my few friends care about fighting games so they won't play with me
>drop the game
This is pretty much my fighting game cycle. If I manage not to get bodied it's only because the opponent I'm facing is playing with their dick and I don't improve that way either. The only way you can get better at fighting games is if you surround yourself with fighting game players that you get along with

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>its a /v/ talks about fighting games episode

>>386116074
Expanding in this

>Fighting games
Attack
Defend
Bar management
Stage control
Character selections
2D/2.5D movement

>Other games
Attack
Defend
Bar/Resource management
Teamwork
Map control
Character/Class selections
3D movement

A lot is the same but the latter gives you much more movement options and a lot more room for improvisation.

>>386115963
Some folks don't have a local scene. I've been moving around for different jobs for the last 6 years and I've yet to land in a town with any kind of gaming scene

>>386116336
tekken

>>386116074
>>386116493
If fighting games are so much simpler than your games, then why do you suck so badly at them?
checkmate, idiot

>>386112023
gigas or claudio

>>386116297
The way you people dismiss things like this is what really gets me. I mean, laugh all you want but I fail to understand why this isn't a massive advantage of real life over fighting games. You could argue that fighting games have other advantages and let you do things that would be absurd in a physical competition, fine, but there's nothing in any fighting game I've played that's like actually parrying a physical weapon or ducking and weaving around punches. The substitutes that fighters tend to offer in place of these things tend to be both more simplistic and more unnecessarily convoluted to control at the same time.

>>386116573
Most do, depending on how far you're willing to travel on a regular basis. 30m drive to play is pretty common and doable. Just check SRK and Facebook, take the initiative to look. Most of the time there's something out there. This is ESPECIALLY true for Smash. SFV and GG are probably the other easiest scenes to find.

>>386116604
I'm not saying fighting games are simple. They involve reading your opponent, having a great deal of knowledge about character moves and capabilities to include reach and damage, and small frame windows to input commands. I'm saying that other games liker 1st/3rd person shooters and MOBAS give you a bit more freedom with your play style. The team work elements can add different strategic elements beyond something you might see in a fighting game where it takes a new character selection to mix shit up in a match up.

>>386116707
Let's see you move the same way as arcana heart in real life.

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>>386116912

>he can't airdash in real life

get good

>>386116897
That sounds like you are not very familiar with fighting games. There is SO MUCH you can do to change up a matchup and even the way you play a character and adapt it to the matchup and the opponent. Case in point, in SF4 nuckledu and dieminion played Guile both, but they were known for using completely different styles. Dieminion was super lame and defensive, while nuckledu was very aggressive and rushdown centered, and they were both equally good. With the same character, at top level.

Fighting games are so deep that you can really get to express yourself with the way you play a character. The depth in Mobas comes from team play, not individual play (at least far from the level it does in fighting games). You're just a cog in the team.

>>386116707
It takes less time to become good at a fighting game and is much easier. FGs allow people with physical disabilities/diseases/etc, and all ages, play on equal footing. It's also about the sense of community and just variety you can get inbetween each game. It's a fucking video game. It's like saying "why play an FPS instead of just going to the gun range or joining the army?". There's an entire list of valid reasons. Not to mention it's incredibly cheap to play a fighting game vs real life training.

>>386099430
nope, I hate that shit, I should sell all my fighters

>>386096029
I love fighting games and I also used to think like that but rts games are also 1v1 they always have more players than fighting games.
like cnc.net of something like that always have more players than fightcade, starcraft bw iccup server even when scbw have gone free have more people than fightcade and both of them are old, hell age of empire 2 is 1v1 it has more players than sfV hell not even counting voobly. Warcraft 3 has dedicated netease client for china which finds game in less than 10 seconds and fightcade is more accessible and free too and people don't play old games on it while cnc warcraft 3 and scbw are all 98-04 it could be inputs or something I don't know but rts games also have quite the entry barrier even melee has not that much people anther ladder like 500 consecutive players and its quite popular while age of empire on voobly has like 2000 consecutive players daily hardly anyone know about voobly

>>386096029
or it could be that it's a genre that died in the mid 90s and isnt really that fun

>>386116074
>In other games you have the ability to do different things to contribute to the win.
I find this ultra fallacious since it assumes some objective variety when many MOBAs and FPS end up with you having to do those at least every other match.
And that merely being different means there's some need-to-know execution or skill requirement. When most of the time they're not remotely as important as every little thing in fighters are.

>>386117370
Fighting games are competitively much more populate than they've ever been. They've only died down with casuals.

>>386096029
I can, that's why I'm usually in practice after a few online games

What about rts games there are only few which are played competitively but all are quite popular as compared to few fighting games that played, scbw sc2 cnc ra2 supreme commander wc3 they always have more players than fighting games and are quite old

>>386116897
>I'm saying that other games liker 1st/3rd person shooters and MOBAS give you a bit more freedom with your play style.
How? Fighters give you absolute freedom in playstyle, some characters are locked to specific styles due to their tools, but even within those strict archtypes you can play various ways. The majority of characters in a majority of games lend themselves very well to open-ended playstyles.

I do take responsibility. I am better than this whole thread at Street Fighter V.

>>386096029
Not really, I play Dark Souls pvp and it's usually 1v1 or 1vX. I dont have no one to blame except me (and maybe freaking shit Dark Souls multiplayer code/servers, when it's lagging way too much). I dont like and play fighting games still tho.

>>386116126
I messed up my arrow, my text is at the bottom.

>>386118151
>Dark Souls pvp
What a joke.
For Honor has 100x better pvp gameplay and netcode than that game and now it's dead

>>386118330
>For Honor has 100x better pvp gameplay
>middle mouse middle mouse near a ledge
>win
soo much better, eh?

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>>386096698
This.

You have to invest a lot in fighting games while you don't get much back early. Even in the "so hard" dark souls you get to explore, kill stuff and collect things between dying. But in fightans you get your ass beaten, you get your ass beaten and you get your ass beaten. You have to train a lot and at the beginning it seems you will never reliably pull that combo everyone and their mother does in their sleep. Maybe never because playing certain games requires much better reflexes and skill than others. Not to mention most fightans are very frustrating both on lower and higher level because a better player will always rape you. On lower level you can bet they pick that fagott where they only have to mash one or two buttons and you can't do shit against it because it takes a higher level of play to defend against it than using it. On the high level you get juggled / stunned while the enemy seems to play solitaire and punch as many combos in your ass as he can while you sit there and wait him to end it because you can't do anything until the combo goes on.

tl;dr games where you can do stuff even if the enemy is better will be always more popular

>>386118830
I will still never understand how and why spamming is now called zoning and why it isn't looked down upon

>>386118525
throw tech you idiot
dark souls pvp is so braindead that it has made you stupid too

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>>386119110
Because the point is to fucking win the game. If you get beat by scrublords spamming hadoken you should spend that time beating that tactic instead of crying about it. You probably consider throwing cheap as well.

>>386119119
>throw tech
so does the same logic as spamming and zoning apply here to?

>>386096029
>Ever questioned why online games like Overwatch or Team Fortress are so popular?

Its easy to trick yourself into thinking your not bad when you have 4-5 other people to blame you losses on

>>386119194
I don't get beat by spammers and I don't consider throws cheap.
I just find it stupid how fighting game players found a way to justify spamming projectile attacks

>>386119194
>Because the point is to fucking win the game
just unplug their pad

>>386119213
spamming and zoning have their counters too which is why you don't see them in most top level play

>>386119371
They do have their counters which is really good.
but in games like MKX and Injustice 2 zoners are very prominent in top level play.
especially Injustice 2 where the majority of the cast are zoners

>>386119530
IJ2 zoning in top level play has died down just like how zoning died once people learned their counters in the past NRS games

>>386119604
Thats pretty refreshing to hear actually. I haven't been following Injustice 2 top level play since it was mostly Deadshot, Black Adam, Darkseid, and Dr. Fate

>>386119324
>>386119110
Because spamming is not zoning you shitter. If you get beat by pure spam then you deserve to lose. If they're spamming then they're mindlessly doing it, which means they're idiots and should be easy to beat. Or you're bad and can't get around it so they keep doing it because it works on you. Zoning has more purpose and thought behind it, being aware that your opponent can punish you yet knowing the correct timing and spacing to play keep away without backing yourself in to a corner.
>>386119530
>MKX
>Top level of play was zoners
The game was 50/50 central for most of its life. Shinnok towards the end was likely the most zoning character that could get away with it, even then the game still revolved around vortexs and just high pressure situations. MK9 was actually a zoning fest with Kabal and Kenshi dominating.