SaGa Thread

>>385853487
So I'm the guy that's planning to give unlimited a shot. Is there a best starting character? I struggled with minstrel's the first time I played because I picked gray but I picked Albert this time and had a much easier time.

I'm here to be sold on this series.

>>385854021
>Is there a best starting character?
Sure, Ventus is your guy, he's literally tailored for beginners since he's the only MC that can do unlimited quests.
The order from easy to hard goes more or less like this

Ventus>Ruby>Judy>Mythe>Laura>Kurt>Armic

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>>385853487
Did the /vr/ thread die or did it get deleted? Either way it's a shame because /saga/ was a really nice "general" thread.

Try making a new thread later, I think it's really nice to have a constant saga thread up so new players can drop in and ask questions without having to wait for the rare SaGa thread on /v/ (that usually gets ignored anyway).

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the best

>>385854160
Do you like RPGs with micromanagement, multiple main characters, crazy ass mechanics and complexity and amazing music and settings?
If so, SaGa's your thing.

The games gets very weird though, and I mean really weird, but I'm sure you can handle those Anon, we can help you getting into the series, try SaGa Frontier or Romancing SaGa 3 and see how it goes from there.
>>385854262
Thread is on hiatus until we get more info on the Romancing SaGa 3 remaster, there's simply not enough traffic for the threads to survive at the moment, but I guess we'll have /v/ threads a little more often while we wait for some news.

>>385854185
See I probably would have picked Kurt or Laura. Glad I asked. You mentioned some games in the OP I wasn't familiar with. Are they spiritual successors?

>>385854678
>See I probably would have picked Kurt or Laura.
Laura isn't too hard in the sense that unlike Kurt, Armic or Ruby doesn't have any proper gimmicks, but some of her story bosses are pretty tough on a fresh file and it's best to leave her later, Kurt has his gauntlet gimmick which can be really hard, especially since his endings are tied to it, so if you want his better ones you should be able to beat all the Gauntlet challenges, which take some good knowledge of the system to do so, moreover he has a particularly tough main story quest that might be lock you into a game over state if you save at the wrong time.
>Are they spiritual successors?
Yep, they're made by a former SaGa designer and Squenix employess, LoL is pretty mediocre but Alliance Alive is a pretty good game as long as you like SNES SaGa games.

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Why is it called "Romancing" anyway?

>>385855056
Is it one of the games where your system data makes a big difference? When I found out clout carried over I felt like a moron for trying to play a hard character first. I think I have a super rough idea of how the leveling system works.

>>385855079
The Romancing part comes from Raphael and Constance quest being the Romance, also because it looks cool.
>>385855323
Yep, in Unlimited you carry over your Market Rank, ecology and monster information, Market Rank makes a huge difference.

>>385854160
I'm pretty new to SaGa myself but the way I'd describe it is as a freeform adventure. You go around exploring the world, completing quests along the way, and you have a ton of freedom on which characters to use and how to modify each character's gameplay role. Every playthrough is different.

>>385855079
ro·mance
rōˈmans,ˈrōˌmans/
noun
noun: romance

1.
a feeling of excitement and mystery associated with love.
"in search of romance"
love, especially when sentimental or idealized.
"he asked her for a date and romance blossomed"
synonyms: love, passion, ardor, adoration, devotion; More
affection, fondness, attachment
"their romance blossomed"
an exciting, enjoyable love affair, especially one that is not serious or long-lasting.
plural noun: romances
"a summer romance"
synonyms: love affair, relationship, liaison, courtship, attachment; More
flirtation, dalliance
"he's had many romances"
a book or movie dealing with love in a sentimental or idealized way.
"light historical romances"
synonyms: love story, novel; More
romantic fiction;
informaltearjerker, bodice-ripper
"an author of historical romances"
a genre of fiction dealing with love in an idealized way.
"wartime passion from the master of romance"
2.
a quality or feeling of mystery, excitement, and remoteness from everyday life.
"the beauty and romance of the night"
synonyms: mystery, glamour, excitement, exoticism, mystique; More

Romance has a lesser used meaning as well. It's why we call idealistic people romantics.

>>385855513
Ok I'll play an easier character first. No shame with a system as unusual as Unlimited. It's like a one man DnD campaign from what I can tell.

>>385855854
> It's like a one man DnD campaign from what I can tell.
In some ways, yes.
Though In Unlimited there's a thing you have to consider, none of your stats bar HP grow in an orthodox way, you probably remember this.
Your stats are determined by panels, what many people tend do ignore is that what panels you get aren't simply determined by your current panel setups, actions or quest rank, but also by how many chests you open up and how many fights you get into, so it's always a good idea to try to loot and fight as much as possible.
Now, for Ventus this isn't a problem since he can do quests as much as you like since he's a Carrier, but all other characters have a finite amount of quests they can do, which is also why you should start with Ventus so you can carry over the Market Rank you got while playing as him so your subsequent playthroughs get easier and faster.

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Anything I should know about Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song before starting it?
I was going to start with Gray but I think I saw someone recommend otherwise, what do you guys think?

>>385856256
Absolutely do not start with Grey since his own quest is infurianting for people with no knowledge of farming materials, and skipping his main quest kind of defeats playing as him in the first place, Barbara is a much better character for beginners and so are Sif or Albert.
Also, Grey is kind of a cunt as a characters so you might end up not liking his attitude when he's not shittalking the big bads, he can be a real asshole.

>>385856249
Jesus, so other characters can't grind at all? If you get fucked on panels or just mess up you're just boned for the end game?

>>385856535
Thanks.
Is Claudia a good player to start with? Otherwise I'll go with barbara.

>>385856249
I'm curious about this new game+ thing, in most games I start a completely fresh file when replaying because NG+ just makes you overpowered and makes gameplay less fun. Does NG+ work differently in SaGa?

>>385857424
He knows more than me. But you have "system data" which keeps track of how many characters you've beaten it with and carries over stuff like shop rank which is annoying to level up but not for the most part character stats.

>>385857138
>Jesus, so other characters can't grind at all?
Yep, once you finish all quests available it's over, so you have to make the best of each single quest, and you have to remember you don't get panels or HP growth until you actually finish a quest.

Ruby is a small exception to this since she can access the Tetraforce in the Seven wonders, which can be used up to 9 times, each of which counts as the end of a quest, meaning you receive panels and HP each time the Tetraforce accepts you.
There is another catch to that though, the Tetraforce will not accept you until you are worn enough to do so, each time you use a tetraforce the conditions for being accepted become more and more steeper to the point that you need to be on the verge of death to even use it.
Unlimited is on another level from even other SaGa games.
>>385857424
>Is Claudia a good player to start with?
Sure.
>Does NG+ work differently in SaGa?
It depends on the games really.
In Frontier you get marginal starting stat bonuses.
In Frontier 2 you retain your Chip Circulation Value, all scenarios are available at the start of the game and all the arts you learned are also available.
In Unlimited, Market Rank, Ecology and Monster information carry over, Market Rank is the ky here since you can get really good item easily but to really abuse it you must also know how the market works and most importantly, forging, so it's not really broken because you need to really know your shit to abuse it.
In Minstrel Song you can get all the classes you unlocked in the game as starting classes for your MC, you also unlock more quests on NG+ and more mechanics like crowned monster and the access to 10FS Saruin, nothing broken here either, if anything it's a must since some characters can only be recruited on NG+ files.
In Scarlet Grace NG+ keeps your monster info, monster event info and waza/jutsu tree, nothing really broken since it's really all mere information.

>>385858193
So is being able to finish the game a bit of a diceroll? Or do people redo quests until they get panels they like.

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I almost missed a SaGa thread.

>>385858459
>So is being able to finish the game a bit of a diceroll?
Not at all, skilled players speedrun the game in less than two hours by blasting through the main quests with a few key sidequests, if you mess up it's totally your fault.
>Or do people redo quests until they get panels they like.
Panels aren't randomized to that extent.
Each action you take in the field counts as a toll for certain panels, use Axes a lot and you'll get Axe panels easily, use magic a lot and you'll get Familiars, use field abilities and you'll get panels related to those, if you pick locks or use daggers a lot you're guaranteed to get thief related panels and or Dagger panels, it all depends on how you make your characters behave.
Just like all SaGa games, your actions determine how you characters develop, Unlimited takes a big step forward in this since it play more like a tabletop game so you need to use other abilities, and to get those you have to make the character behave in a certain way.
Of course, there is a slight randomization factor to that, but it's absolutely minor, most panels are very easy to get and all ability panels are very easy to get too since you can infer how to get them fairly easily.
There's a few really powerful panels like Weapon Meister, Magic Blender and some other things that are fairly hard to acquire, but that's because they're extremely powerful, and even so, as long as you keep your mage cast spells you're bound to get Magic Blender sooner or later, your bigger worry should be actually getting tablets, which is a whole other story.
>>>

>>385859483
Are martial arts good? One thing I love about SaGa is how good the hand to hand fighting is. In what other rpg series can you suplex an enemy 6 consecutive times.

Scarlet Grace English release w h e n

>>385859483
One other thing that is different from all SaGa games(and most games in general) is that in Unlimited, your whole game history influences your panels and reflects your characters' story, behaviour and even personal history, Phobia panels an Pacifist panels are an example, if your character gets killed or hurt a lot by certain monsters he/she might easily develop a Phobia panel about them, e.g. get hurt a lot by skellies and your character develops an Undead Phobia, conversely, if you kill a lot of undeads your character might feel bad about it and want to make an Undead Pacifist oath.
Now, Phobia Panels work in an interesting way, they give high stat bonuses, however, all your stats against that particular family of monsters are severly nerfed, you basically won't do much damage to skellies because your character will be too scared to perfom well, you'll also take more damage from them.
Once a Phobia panel is placed you can't take it out, but you can overwrite it with another Phobia panel, or make combos with it, so even Phobia panels might end up being very powerful in a way.

Oath panels are very similar, basically when your character takes an oath, they can't hurt certain family of mosters or use certain weapons, if you hurt a monster under oath you'll receive LP damage as a curse for breaking your oath, if you're under a weapon Oath you won't be able to use any waza for them, and much like Phobia panels, they also can't be removed, but you can make really powerful combos if you know how to set them up.
>>385859674
>Are martial arts good?
Sure, but they are far more complex to use since now character weight determines your martial art class, this is another can of worms that would require a long explanation.

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>>385853487
One of the two Legend of Legacy grandchildren on /v/ reporting in. Awaiting The Alliance Alive eagerly, although I'm not sure it's coming.

Now, to explain Martial arts in Unlimited.
Contrary to previous games, character weight determines your MA style, there are three styles in the game, light, medium and heavy, all specialize in different things, Light is focused on LP damage, medium is best of both worlds, heavy specializes in HP damage but also has good LP damage and some really strong waza like Raksha that can also instakill.

Now, character weight is determined by two things, your character's own weight and the total equipment weight.
This means two things, that heavyweight characters either can't access the Light line or have to be basically naked to do so, while lightweight can switch between all three styles easily, there's one specific character who has an inside joke about it, but I won't spoiler the surprise.
Martial Arts, like all entries in the series are very good in the sense that they cost nothing in terms of equipment and you can use them whenever, however, due to the reel and panel systems it's pretty hard to use them if you're focusing on the heavy line, so I wouldn't recommend to try the Heavy line unless you have really good reflexes and knowledge of Reel patterns, and hopefully you're not colour blind like me.
>>385860451
Hello sonny, glad to have you onboard.
Alliance Alive has been received fairly well, so I guess they'll eventually localize it, or so I hope, it's a pretty good game, much better than LoL on the mechanical point of view.

>>385861256
Ok cool. I'll read a mechanics faq before playing I think. Martial arts are usually pretty sick in these games. I was recently doing twinmoon temple and my Gray's weapon dp got too low so I started having him punch stuff. By the time I was done his punches were better than his swording ever was.

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Is he really dead, they never found a body

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>>385861640
>Martial arts are usually pretty sick in these games
I know, Romancing SaGa 2/3 have 100 Hands Kannon(Which also inspired Netero's hatsu in HxH), Frontier has all those wrestling move and DSC, Scarlet Grace has a 1:1 Rider Kick that also doubles as a Gunbuster reference since it's called Inazuma Kick, if you like martial arts SaGa always delivers.
Unlimited even has Kawazu Throw and some very cool sprites and animations for martial arts waza.
>By the time I was done his punches were better than his swording ever was.
That's the fun part of SaGa games, your characters get better by doing things instead of hoarding EXP for level ups, Unlimited takes this further by even adding "negative" traits based on you character's personal game history, it's a great system since it's practical roleplay applied to a battle and growth system, how you behave in the game shapes your characters and story.

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>>385862285
>Is he really dead
He is, but even in death he saves everyone's ass.

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Bumping with some of Tomomi's art for Scarlet

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It's really hard to find this kind of stuff online

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>>385864109
Cute.

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>>385864176
Hi Ace, saw you in the Guilty Gear thread the other day.

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Can't really find much else outside of really low res.
Guess I'll have to give up and buy the illustration book someday.

>>385864385
Hello anon.

>>385861256
So I hear, which I am excited for. Bigger world and more characters.

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>>385864706
How you doing?
How come you like Elizabeth anyway?
>>385864757
It's big step forward from LoL, I'm sure you'll enjoy it if they'll localize it, they really polished the overall system a lot and actually have a proper cast now.

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>>385865043
I doing pretty well anon. Thanks.

>How come you like Elizabeth anyway?
Well. If it wasn't too obvious. I like how she looks. Then again. I like SaGa girls.

>>385865043
Well yeah that's what I've heard on here, one anon was showing me a ton of stuff about the game. I'm the only fan on /v/ that liked TLoL to the degree that I do though, since it's one of my favorites overall.

>>385856256
You have to look for the characters main quests. I literally nearly missed some of the Archer Girl's story because I didn't bother with Twinmoon Temple before I learned the Moonstone helps stop the Final bosses fucking infuriating Necromancy attack.

>>385862341
The sparking system and the leveling system are just fantastic.

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>>385865350
>doing pretty well
Good to hear.
Boy if you like Aisha do I have news for you.
Liza is a pretty fun character too if you like that kind of sassy girls, not my favorite Scarlet girl but she's a great character.
>>385865512
>>385865512
>I'm the only fan on /v/ that liked TLoL to the degree that I do though, since it's one of my favorites overall.
Really?
You should play SaGa games then since LoL is heavily "inspired" by them, though well, it's more of a clone than anything.
>>385865696
>before I learned the Moonstone helps stop the Final bosses fucking infuriating Necromancy attack.
*Animates Dead your fallen party members*

>>385865928
So I hear, but I don't really have the motivation to get started on them. I know it's silly, but emulators heavily dampen enthusiam for playing stuff, and I don't have any of the systems that SaGa is released on. That and from what people have described, the only one that would appeal to me as much as TLoL did is Minstrel Song.

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Well, since we're here I might as well dump a few pics from Scarlet.
IF any of you wants to ask questions about the game fire away, I have more than 500 hours on it, and I'm still not done.

>>385866231
How do you like it compare to other SaGa games?

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>>385866210
>That and from what people have described, the only one that would appeal to me as much as TLoL did is Minstrel Song.
Why is that?
It's a pretty strange thing to say since LoL is basically a watered down SaGa game, what is it that you're looking for in particular?
>>385866316
That's a really hard question to answer right now, but I'd say it's very good, slightly below Unlimited and Minstrel Song in terms of overall complexity, but that's because Scarlet focuses more on event variation and cast size.
The game works radically differently from the previous games, as usual, so it's hard to make direct comparison because Kawazu always makes SaGa games to be some kind of standalone with their own unique appeal.
Scarlet has a very complex questline and possibly the richest writing, lore and characterization of the series while also having a completely new battle system that is unlike everything the series did until now, in a way it's very similar to Grandia, but a lot more polished and well executed in all aspects and obviously founded on SaGa's classic battle framework.

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One thing that really stands out is how the game plot, world and progression is structured, the game definitely feels like a mix of Frontier, Unlimited and the GB SaGa games, another really important thing is that unlike most previous games there's a lot of potential cast in-fighting, you can fight and kill a lot of people who might end up being party members, this isn't really a thing in other games except Romancing SaGa 2.

>>385866698
I liked TLoL for a combination of factors of things that were in it and things that were not in it, which appears to be something that only appealed to me in particular. Minstrel Song, at least from what people have explained, is the one that reaches what I liked about TLoL the closest. I did try out one SaGa game long ago but the girl I picked didn't really end up leading anywhere and I abhor the usage of guides, so I dropped it. Can't remember which one it was, my friend lent me it.

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Another thing that some veterans can notice is the huge amount of references to previous games, many weapons are from The Last Remnant, some monsters from Minstrel Song return, some waza and jutsu from Frontier also return, then there is a staggering amount of visual and other implied references to a ton of other games from Kawazu, like Pic Related, you really need to know your shit if you want to catch all the little hints and references in the game.
>>385867135
>I liked TLoL for a combination of factors of things that were in it and things that were not in it, which appears to be something that only appealed to me in particular.
What are those? The contract system and lack of story maybe?
>and I abhor the usage of guides
Looks like you'd fit in the family just right Anon, SaGa games are better enjoyed blind.
Was the girl Aisha or Claudia maybe?

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>>385866698
Thanks anon. Sounds pretty good. It's too bad it's well..in moon at the moment. But oh well.

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don't ever go to rat cave

too many rat

>>385867571
Partly yes. I could launch into an explanation but it would take time that I don't have right now, I'll do so once I'm done with my task.
I honestly don't remember. I chose her because I generally just thought she was alright looking and out of force of habit due to choosing a female lead in most JRPGs I play.

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>>385867935
My fear is that an eventual localization will remove a lot of the more subtle references, SaGa games have always been butchered to hell and back with Frontier 2 being the only game that wasn't hurt too much.
The writing is particularly important this time around too, for a large number of reasons, and I'm fairly certain that they would fuck it up a lot.
Well, at least you can look forward to the Romancing SaGa 3 remaster since it's been confirmed for getting a localization as well, Kawazu has been silent since a month or so right now so they're probably knee deep in development right now, it will probably take a while since they're remaking the game from the ground up unlike the RS2 remaster, but I'm sure it will end up well.

By the by, I hope you like PuyoPuyo if Scarlet ever gets a localization.
>>385868167
>Fighting Algernon without a full party
You brought this on yourself anon.
>>385868439
Well, let's hope this thread is still around when you're up for an explanation then.

>>385868674
Will it basically be what minstrel's song is to RS1? I remember when I was younger I played mikhail and got stuck and gave up on the game. Might give it another go.

>>385868887
>Will it basically be what minstrel's song is to RS1?
Hardly, Kawazu said it's a remaster, not a remake, so they'll probably add a few characters, some new content and fix a lot of bugs while also ironing out the Commander Mode since he explicitly said he wanted to do more with it some time ago.
Chances are we get some of the cut storylines like Tatyana and more about the dark temple with Galatea, some stuff about Gwayne too maybe, so far the candidates for new playable characters are Volcano and the Professor since they're fan favorites, but maybe we'll get some extra stuff.
Basically, it will be the same game on a new engine with some extra content, extensive bugfix and some extra goodies.
I sure hope they don't remove the character cloning or swap glitches because they're amazing.

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>>385868674
>Well, at least you can look forward to the Romancing SaGa 3 remaster since it's been confirmed for getting a localization as well, Kawazu has been silent since a month or so right now so they're probably knee deep in development right now, it will probably take a while since they're remaking the game from the ground up unlike the RS2 remaster, but I'm sure it will end up well.
Well hot damn. That's good news. I only played the SNES version of RS3 for a short while years ago. I liked what I played of it. But I never quite got around to beating it.

>>385869268
Too bad. I'll give it a shot regardless though.

>>385869268
>volcano isn't playable

Wait what? I just assumed I never got him because I sided with Undine, and that if I went the other way/made peace between them he would join.

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>>385869367
Look forward to it, the Romancing SaGa 2 remaster was a great success so this one will be probably bigger and with more budget too.
>>385869426
Yep, Volcano isn't playable sadly, since he is a fan favorite and Imperial SaGa made him playable along many other characters people in Japan are speculating he might end up being actually playable in the remaster together with the Professor.
You can side with him but he doesn't join, he just gives you a reward and teach you fire magic, but only of the two magicians only Undine can join, it's especially tragic since the game's best fire caster is Sharl, and he's a hybrid character and not a proper caster.

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Beat Lute's story earlier and still want to play. Should I reward myself with Asellus or pick someone else?

For someone that's never tried the series which one do you recommend starting with and how connected are each of the games to each other

>>385857138
In unlimited you'll be abusing quick saves in order to shuffle rng on your good quests. Especially if you want to do magic because magic tablets are a whole other mess of shit.

>>385870145
General guideline is:
>You like Utena and /u/? Pick Asellus
>You like Tokusatsu and BURNING JUSTICE? Pick Red
>You Like Layzner and /m/echa? Pick T260G
>You like Charlie's Angels and cosplaying? Pick Emilia
>You like LoTR and cheongsams? Pick Riki/Coon
>You like Harry Potter and family feuds? Pick Blue
>You like Fuse? HAHAHAHAHA FAGGOT! YOU GET LUTE INSTEAD!
>>385870179
SaGa Frontier, SaGa 2(Either the GB original or the DS remake) and Romancing SaGa 3 are widely considered the best entries for beginners, but playing the games in release order is the better choice if you have time for it.
>how connected are each of the games to each other
Zero connection whatsoever, they're all self contained, though there are cameos and references here and there, but mostly in the later games.

>>385870179
All SaGa games are standalone. Despite most of them having a number. As for which ones you should start off with. Well that's kinda hard. I got started with the gameboy titles. Although those may be kinda hard to get into.

Is SaGa Frontier considered a "open world" rpg considered you can literally go anywhere and discover anything without having to follow a main plotline?

>>385866231
How complete is it?

>>385869941
>the Romancing SaGa 2 remaster was a great success
Do you have numbers on that? I've heard the English version didn't do very well.

>>385869941
How is RS2? I heart it's sort of like frontier 2.

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>>385870598
>General guideline is:

Oh I know Frontier inside and out. Which is why I'm asking who to play as. Asellus has a really fun story and cast availability. Humoring an all mystic party to see how it turns out.

>>385871157
Well it's kinda tricky to say. All of the characters stories in it still have a general plot to them. And you're kinda expected to finish them at some point. It is still a non-liner game though (Especially Riki's story).

>>385871157
Wouldn't say it's open world since there are transition screens, but yeah, starting from the SNES games and with the exception of Frontier 2 the games are all pretty sandboxy, you can really explore in whatever order and to your heart's content.
>>385871178
Looks fine to me, like all games they cut stuff during development but I don't really think they cut anything major this time outside of maybe one possible recruitable character, Rho Kai, which is a unique NPC that is strangely not recruitable, considering you have more than 70 characters.
>>385871334
Vita version alone sold more than 200K, there's no numbers available for the phone version but Kawazu and Ichikawa said they were very satisfied with the performance, which is the RS3 is getting a complete remaster.
>>385871402
Frontier 2 picks up some themes and elements from RS2, like generational gameplay and a more plot focused structure, but the games play nothing alike, Frontier 2 is also more focused on uniques, RS2 is basically all generics and is more focused on nonlinearity and event variations, it's also MUCH harder than Frontier 2, in fact it's possibly the hardest game in the series.

>>385871746
What would you consider the easiest? I've found Frontier 2 fairly simple so far. I'm not done but I'm fairly close I think.

>>385871947
>I've found Frontier 2 fairly simple so far.

Egg will teach you fear soon.

>>385872101
Is it one of those games where the whole thing is easy until the final boss?

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>>385871947
>What would you consider the easiest?
I'd say the GB games, Frontier and Romancing SaGa 3 are the easier games.
Frontier 2 is safe outside of a few difficulty spikes here and there, South Moundtop and the last dungeon, especially if you want to fight the fully powered Egg.
Hardest games in the series are Romancing SaGa 2, Unlimited and Minstrel Song, Scarlet Grace has a steep learning curve and can be pretty brutal, but it's not as hard as those three unless you really fuck up for progression, in which case it becomes a fucking nightmare, especially if you lock yourself in the Full Power Firebringer route and don't know how to deal with him, he can tear your asshole apart in the first phase alone, Firebringer can really make you shit bricks, especially if you played all the other SaGa games and have even a slight hint of all the bullshit he keeps on pulling out of his ass, took me more than a hour to figure him out.

>>385872363
The last few scenarios are pretty rough, but the final boss in particular is extremely difficult. I dunno if you've experienced it yet but frontier 2 has something of an inheritance system. Characters you use later will have certain moves you learned with characters earlier. This is pretty crucial for being able to handle the end properly because the last party is bad.

>>385872565
Unless I'm mistaken every character can equip any tech anyone has learned. It seems that way right now anyway.

>>385872769
Correct, but certain earlier characters are the only ones who can learn specific good skills.

>>385872958
Ah. That's concerning.

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>>385872565
>because the last party is bad.
>Ginny
>Primiera
>Roberto
>Fucking Gustaf
>Bad
Ginny is the most broken character in the game together with Gustave and Diana, you can easily spam 4000 damage Tornado Blades with her effortleslly, Gustaf is the best spellcaster in the game bar young Wil and Primiera is a hulking juggernaut if you build her right.
The only character that is "bad" is Wil because he's fucking 80 years old by that time and his stats get sapped by old age but he can still kick ass, unless you never sparked anything to teach to the last party you won't have problems because outside of Meithia and maybe Roberto being somewhat average if you don't nurture her, everyone else will steamroll anything.

>>385873247
So frontier 2 threw me off at first. All offense is based on you weapon and skill level right? There's no real strength stat or anything that I can see.

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>>385853487
MODERN JRPG BTFO

>>385873486
>There's no real strength stat or anything that I can see.
Nope, there are character stats but you can't see them, try seeing how well Wil does with an Axe proficiency of 5 compared to Tyler with the same proficiency.
Offense is based on character stats, equipment power, proficiency and command strength against the target defense stats and armor values in case they're wearing one.

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BTFO

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Papyrus is that you ?

>>385873967
Oh ok. So characters just have inherent stats based on their age that I can never affect?

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>>385874218
>tfw Sei, a fucking skeleton king from centuries ago, canonically gets wasted in a random bar with Fuse in the novel

>>385874369
>So characters just have inherent stats based on their age that I can never affect?
Yep, SaGa works on two main systems.

The Proficiency system, which has weapon proficiency levels but fixed base stats.

The Variable Stat system, which has no proficiency levels but stat that grow depending on the actions you take in battle.

Then there's Unlimited, that as always does thing in its own way.

>>385874549
I get that for most games. But in Frontier 2 as far as I can tell you don't get stat ups other than wp jp and hp.

>>385874708
Yep, that's how the Proficiency system works, HP/WP/JPs or BPs are considered independent stats that grow in every game outside of the main character stats, outside of, again, Unlimited.
Scarlet also has only HP as a variable stat, there are no WP/JP or BP, as in Battle Points, BP as in Brave Points are a completely new concept unique to this entry.

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>>385871464
All Mystics can be fun if you specialize them with different builds.

Different anon here, but I'd suggest Red and building an all-IRPO team (Fuze, Doll, Red, Silence, Rabbit, and/or Cotton). There's some especially enjoyable dialogue if you rescue Cotton with several other IRPO members on your squad.

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>>385874372
never know it have novel
my fav ost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcHDUmtdcfo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVrQV6Ls9aQ

>>385874938
So do I have to find a wiki to see characters base stats in saga frontier 2?

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I've only played Minstrel Song on the PS2, is it well received by Saga fans? I liked it.

About to play Minstrel Song. Anything I should know going in?

I've only ever played Frontier, but I love the game dearly and have played it from front to back. I own the books for it even though I don't speak moon--there's a surprising amount of artwork in the one that I've never seen anywhere online.

I own and have tried to get into Frontier 2, but it didn't hook me like Frontier did and it's a pretty different game all around.

>>385874549
Frontier has proficiency too, but it just makes it easier for some characters to spark certain skills.

>>385875314
It's held up as one of the best games in the series. The best depending on who you ask.

>>385875336
Yeah, I'm the guy that struggled when he first played it. Don't pick gray to start unless you're a masochist. Albert is a good choice to start. Other people will have better advice, I'm still playing.

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>>385875124
>never know it have novel
It has a short novel about Fuse and his quest that got cut from the game, it's pretty hilarious, there's stuff like him and ren getting suplexed by Emilia, getting wasted with King Sei, Fuse trying to hit on Doll and getting roughened up by her and so much more stuff, it's damn amazing.
>>385875205
Yup.
>>385875314
It's widely considered one of the best entries in the franchise mechanically, but it's not as popular as other games, because Romancing SaGa doesn't really have a lot of memorable moments or characters compared to other games.
>>385875336
>Anything I should know going in?
Don't fight too much since ER is a thing, try to explore and finish as many quests as possible, learn how to loot and forge since money is scarce unless you know how to capitalize on certain quests and loot.
And most importantly, have fun.
>>385875348
Proficiency is intended as variable levels, Frontier doesn't have that, characters have affinities due to spark tables, but that isn't proficiency.

>>385875314
In every thread I've seen so far, it's highly recommended as an entry point into the series.

>>385875607
I think I want to start as either Hawke or Sif. They both look like a fun time to me.

>>385876330
I'm no expert but I think Sif is a good starting point and hawke is decent. They're both in my part right now so I can say they both seem decent.

>>385876437
The game's prompting me to pick a class.
Seems like if I go with a class, I get some starting skills but worse stats?

I should probably start with the default class, right?

About fuckin time we have ourselves a SaGa thread. About halfway through my first playthrough of MS right now.

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>>385876330
Patrician choice.
Sif is a big girl and her own quest gives her the best accessory in the game, and also lets her recruit a very special party member if done correctly, she's a very fun character too considering she the original no nonsense musclegirl that started the tradition in the series.
Hawke is my favorite male MC in Minstrel Song, so I have nothing but praise for him, best pirate character in the franchise and he is bro with Guella Ha, which is one of the most based characters in the whole franchise, pretty funny character for a pirate too considering he has more common sense and manners than the rest of the cast.

They're both great and very fun to play as.

>>385876637
You generally want a class. Anything you have points in costs less resourcses to use and has a higher chance to spark abilities and combo. I hope the SaGa expert guy is still around because he seems to know much better than I do.

>>385876953
Went with Sif, saving Hawke to pull me back for another playthrough sooner rather than later.

>This intro for the character

Fuck yes, I love this game already. I loved some of the unique starts you got in SaGa Frontier.

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>>385854160
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8KMcHFvNkc

>People saying Sif is a good starting point

IMO Sif and Albert have the hardest starts. Aisha somewhat as well.
Albert is good to start a game and play for 10 minutes for the in game tutorials to explain how to equip your first aid kit and stuff, then switch to a different character.
Claudia is an annoying start because of Brau and Sylvan, Aisha because she's so weak, Hawke's pirate stuff at the start is mostly fine. IMO Grey, Jamil and Barbara are the easiest to start with. Start with a lot of things open to them, Jamil and Barbara both have really early quests they can do.
But Albert and especially Sif have to go through those fucking ice caves, and Sif has to do it twice.

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>>385876637
Classes have three main effects.

You get a BP/DP discount on certain weapons/Magic categories, this is tremendously important since durability matter a lot and BP gets generated passively in battle starting from 0.

You learn a field ability like Jump, Mining or Move Silently which are keys in completing quests, getting loot and exploring.

You get special properties and commands, some classes trigger parries and passive abilities more reliably than other classes, some caster classes also let you fuse spells to create unique spells like Crimson Flare and Overdrive.
>>385877212
>>This intro for the character
That is my fetish
But seriously Sif is fucking great.

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Why is SaGa the best JRPG series, lads? Nothing else even comes close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-3uAzEKyVU

>>385877834
You should try Metal Max, the combat system isn't as good but it has even better exploration than SaGa and is as crazy as SaGa when it comes to plotlines and quests.
Why SaGa gets insanely hype music even in the spinoffs is a mystery, but Itoken gotta Itoken.
I mean, this is a fucking common battle theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoyzQrI187Q

>>385878164
>It's all in Moon

Is the translated Metal Saga game any good?

>>385877549
I've got enough starting cash to pick up Find Traps and Find Treasure--should I buy those?

Also, is it worth spending Gems on new classes early or should I avoid that for now?

>>385878456
Not him. But there's also Metal Max Returns. Which was fan translated while back. That was a pretty decent game. Can't speak on Metal Saga though since I never played it.

>>385878549
>Find Traps
no
>Find Treasure
no. Find Traps is only used in like 3 dungeons, Find Treasure requires a Treasure Map and the Excavate skill. If you get a Map, then sure get Find Treasure and Excavate and you'll probably get 2-3k gold worth of stuff.
Find Chests, Open Locks, Disarm Traps, Lurk, Move Silently, Climb and Jump are all useful.
Find Ore and Mine can be somewhat useful if you're playing as Grey or decide to do tempering.

>>385878456
Metal Max Returns for SNES has an alright patch, Metal Saga is great and you should go fucking play it already, especially if you like SaGa games, Metal Max and SaGa share most of their fanbases in Japan too, if you like one is really hard to not like the other.
The DS games though, they're legit masterpieces.
>>385878549
Find Treasure is overall extremely useful since it lets you dig up chests, find traps is key in a certain questline but it's not as urgent as Find Treasure, get stuff like Climb and Jump asap since you can't explore without them.
>is it worth spending Gems on new classes early or should I avoid that for now?
No, you should prioritize getting abilities first, then setting up for master classes.

>>385878549
You should find a class you really want to use for each character, and then use your gems on those classes. Don't spend them on Blacksmith if you don't want them to be a Blacksmith for a good portion of the game.

>100+ replies
>There are 21 posters in this thread

Of course. You already spam this thread on /vr/. Now you're trying to push it on /v/ as well. Generals belong anywhere but /vg/, amirite?

>>385878549
Pretty sure you need to hit level 3 in one class before you can start to customize more. So I usually try to do that ASAP.

>>385878549
>Also, is it worth spending Gems on new classes early or should I avoid that for now?
Don't invest in classes until you know what you want your party to be. Gems aren't very plentiful and more advanced classes get pretty expensive. My first time I had to start a new game about 15 hours in because I spread out too much and couldn't afford to upgrade any of my other characters.

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Romancing Saga 2 is cripplingly hard. Which is concerning since I don't remember having any trouble finishing 3 as a kid or minstrel song as an older kid.

>>385879093
>STOP TALKING ABOUT VIDEO GAMES

First time here, again.

If I really want to use Martial arts but I'm not the character that starts with it, should I just forget about it or what?

>>385879653
You could wait for a character more suited for it pops up. Or you could gear whatever character you're using to be Mr/Ms: Mc punchy things to death. It's really up to you.

>>385879339
Gems are slow but infinite, get Lurk and Move Silently, ideally on characters with 1 or 0 in Covert so they only last about 10 seconds. Head to Lake Kjarat, there's nothing there that can attack you but you can use skills. Set 3 other skills (ie Find Chests with everyone in your party having maxed Search) to pump up your uses for skills. Use Lurk and Move Silently until you're out of uses. Get about 50 gems in a couple minutes, then head back to town, unset and reset Lurk to get all your uses back.

>>385879279
This. As soon as you hit 3 in any class, you can buy skills individually, however they will cost more than if you buy in bulk. IE, raising 1 skill from 0 to 1 costs 10 gems, raising 2 at the same time costs 18, raising 3 costs 25. If there's only one skill, such as Survival, that has no overlap with any of the other skills you want to use it's better to suck it up and spend the full price on it than paying 30-70% more getting a bunch of skills you'll never use alongside it.

>>385879525
Romancing SaGa 2 was my first SaGa and I didn't find it particularly hard. What are you having trouble with exactly?

>>385879653
You can just grab a class that has it.

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>>385879525
>Romancing Saga 2 is cripplingly hard.
Romancing SaGa 2 is SaGa: "No Fun Allowed".
>>385879653
>If I really want to use Martial arts but I'm not the character that starts with it
What do you mean? Anyone can use martial arts, you could just wait for someone more suited for them anyway.

>>385879653
Not sure which game you're talking about, but most of them will let you train a character in whatever you want and still have them do really well as long as they focus on that one thing. The only real restrictions on what a character will excel at is their waza spark tables.

>>385879525
I just played it for the first time not too long ago and found that focusing on keeping equipment upgraded helps a lot. Knowing the hidden defense values of everything and being able to put a combination of equipment on all of your party members that cover all of their weaknesses helps a lot. It also helps to get lucky and learn a powerful waza.

>>385880370
>Knowing the hidden defense values of everything and being able to put a combination of equipment on all of your party members that cover all of their weaknesses helps a lot. It also helps to get lucky and learn a powerful waza.
None of that matters as long as you learn how to use magic and learn how to hard counter shit or abuse the right formations+ spell setups, waza are a non issue either since magic is magnitudes more powerful than waza in RS2..

>>385880136
>>385879913
Talking about Minstrel Song here.

I'm still very much at the start of the game as Sif. She began as a class with skills in 2-Handed Sword and Hand Axe. Should I just stick with those? I kind of want to just have her punch things to death.

In that case, should I train in Entertainer for 25 Gems so that I can get Martial Arts?

I'm not entirely sure how this system works. In Frontier, all I had to do was just start punching things.

>>385880556
You can start punching things now, classes just make you better at it. You get access to new classes as you travel, valhalland might not have any good ones.

>>385880556
As long as you stick to having her just punch things to death right away you make into a Martial artist type.

>>385880649
It's got:
Hunter
Pioneer
Swordsman
Entertainer

>>385880556
>In that case, should I train in Entertainer
iirc Entertainer doesn't really have anything worthwhile to learn, better wait for some better advanced classes like Master later on if you want to punch stuff as Sif, then again, do your own thing Anon, SaGa's all about freedom of choice anyway.

>>385880753
I don't remember classes off the top of my head but I don't think any of those are great. I'd just punch shit until you find one you prefer. I think my punchmaster uses Estamirian rebel which gives me martial arts katanas and illusion magic iirc.

>>385880879
>>385880785
Okay, gonna stick with my starting Valhallan Warrior class and just punch shit for days.

I love the freedom SaGa games offer, just don't wanna fuck up my resources early on.

Now that I remembered, it's best you let everyone punch shit until they all learn Second Wind, it's a great waza that everyone should have.

Sorry I'm late

>>385880556
For anything, but for Martial Arts especially, you want at least 1 level in the skill and to be in a class with that skill. That will provide you with TP and BP reductions.
Classes with Martial Arts include:
Ascetic (Makes you more resistant to physical status ailments)
Entertainer (Decreases chance for opponents to use combos) - has Covert which is a decent field skill
Geckling Knight (Makes it easier to counter)
Estamirian Rebel (Makes it easier to inflict status ailments on the enemy) - has Search which is a decent field skill, is a tier 2 class
Martial Artist (Increases the chance of triggering Surge/Reverse)
and the legendary tier 3 classes (Reduces DP/LP stages of techniques):
Cleric - Has Hydrology and Cosmology, two decent healing spell schools as well as Gathering
Master - Has Covert

If you want to use weapons in addition to Martial Arts, Estamirian Rebel and Martial Artist both use Scimitars and Katanas, with Martial Artists also able to use Staves, Pole Arms and Bows. Then you could upgrade to Master which also uses Scimitars, Katanas, Pole Arms and Clubs.
Or you could do Geckling Knight which is 2H Axe, Lance and Martial Arts and pretty easy to level up being a basic class.

The Volunteer Brigade kid mentioned tempering weapons, but then just scoffed at me and said I shouldn't worry about it because I'm a beginner.

Now literally all I know is that I can upgrade a weapon but then I can't repair it anymore?

>>385881242
>pretty easy to level up being a basic class.
And it fits Kungfu lizardman Guella like a glove.

>>385881402
>but then I can't repair it anymore?
You totally can repair it.

>>385881489
Oh, he said they don't recover DP when I stay at an Inn. Do I just go elsewhere to repair?

>>385881402
You can repair it but only with the material you used to temper it. If the weapon breaks and you don't have the material in stock, you can't use the standard repair option to fix it.

>>385881674
>Do I just go elsewhere to repair?
Yup, see>>385881739
You didn't think life would be so easy, did you?

>>385881402
How it works is if you temper a weapon with, say, Meteoric Iron you cannot repair the weapon just by staying at the inn. You have to temper it again. You can do it with anything, Bronze, Meteoric Iron, whatever.
If the material is harmonious then its name will be red and after using it enough in battle it'll turn into a [Weapon]+1. If you temper it with a different material before it becomes a +1, you'll have to redo the breaking in process.

>>385876953
Use a custom res based of 492 iirc and turn off 2d rendering filtering and it should get rid of those lines.

if 492 isn't right I'll have to redownload ps2 emu shit and figure out what it was again. Might have been 442

>>385881739
You can use other materials, but ideally you want to continue tempering with the same one until the weapon upgrades.

>>385882073
Judy's story was really cute and heartwarming, it helps her family was so comically weird and endearing at the same time.
Unlimited really has some great MCs, especially the female ones.

Does anything feel as good as sparking an ability that wins you a fight you were about to lose?

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>>385882453
>Implying there's anything more satisfying than seeing a lightbulb flash over someone's head
People who don't play SaGa will never know this fell

>>385882453
>Fighting King Sei with Blue, Lute, and some other characters
>Always would rag on Lute because he kind of sucks
>Sei starts to wreck my party, killing everyone but Blue and Lute.
>Blue is going to heal my character with the backpack this round, letting me recover
>Sei goes in for the kill
>Lute learned Deflect! Protects Blue from death
>"Well, that was good, but I still need to beat this asshole... Guess I'll just attack with Lute's shitty basic slash."
>Lute learns Rosario Impale!
>Lute learns Triple Thrust!
>Holyshit.jpg
>Start hammering the boss with Lute, making good progress
>Boss uses Charm Gaze... on Lute.
>Oh fuck, now Lute will use all his newfound skills to kill his friends
>Lute learns Dodge Gaze!

Shit was uncanny.
The amount of hype that goes into sparking new abilities and getting clutch combos in SaGa Frontier is part of why I love that game so much.

>>385882813
>>385882642
I've got a pavlovian response to those bulbs and "ding"s now.

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So I forgot Asellus only has 8LP. I want Timelord so I need to get this sandvessel now. Is Asura worth using with an all mystic party? I might have Asellus go guns since I imagine bound shot can combine with mystic attacks and I doubt lifesprinkler or other high end melee attacks could. Could also just have her learn DSC

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>>385882813
>>385883153
>Playing Frontier for the first time
>Get to Berva's fight
>HAHA! Time to spark some shit on you
>Berva sparks Sway

>>385883531
>Is Asura worth using with an all mystic party?
As long as you put it on Asellus.
Problem is that dual guns still outclass anything, not like it matters in a normal run, but that's how it is.

>>385883531
I'd go DSC with her, anon. Something about Asellus going full martial arts appeals to me.

That said, taking her down to 4 LP for Asura and Sandvessel isn't that big of a kick in the shit. If you run Mesartim and Timelord, Asellus shouldn't be taking many LP hits.

>>385868167
Rats are a good source of lightbulbs, though.

>>385883917
Yeah, bound shot is too good. Guess it's blockable but otherwise amazing.
>>385884136
Yeah LP won't be a problem once the party's ready. But until then it could be a big problem. Especially if I want time lord early enough that his HP won't be total trash, then I have to deal with either despair's boss or the suzaku on the mountain early. Depending on what gift I want him to have. Which will probably be rune for fun

>>385884529
You can kill Suzaku with Death Tarot, notably.
Then again, I'm not sure if anyone Asellus can recruit has access to it--pretty sure only Nusakan does and, sadly, he's only recruitable in Blue and Riki's plots.

I find Suzaku easier than the Nidhegg or whatever the fuck that Despair boss is called.

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>>385884997
Goddamn it Jap moot.

>>385884892
Is death tarot the only instant death that works on it? Realm has one that I could teach anyone, even if the rate is ass.

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>>385884997
>tfw when Nei is a canon bisexual yandere
Her own questline is so weird when you stumble upon it.

>>385885206
Implosion?
Can't say that I've seen it proc on him, but it's probably worth a try.

The real trick is to keep track of his HP and try to absorb him into one of your mystic slots, since Suzakus are one of the best absorbs in the game.

>>385885345
That sounds pretty nice desu.

>>385885508
It's a good all around one, but i can biolab them later at least. I think the aborption that needs attention is griffin?

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>>385885558
I remember when I first got it playing as Urpina, which is extra jarring since she lives in the same province and obviously adores her since you meet her many times in Urpina's story, then you get her quest and she literally curses the MCs with a voodoo doll so that they can live with her in her hut forever, the reactions from the coprotagonists are amazing, from Mondo losing it to Kahn making mad bantz or Arthur being jealous as all hell, you can choose to accept her curse or refuse her, if you do refuse her she basically runs away crying with the most tragic BGM in the game.

What's extra fun is that she specializes in Axes, a true yandere.
She has one of the weirdest stat tables I saw though.

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And talking about weird Stat tables, Heigel is literally Dante Must Die, the character

12 Strength
12 Dexterity
10 Speed
9 Constitutio
10 Intelligence
15 Concentration

ONE FUCKING LP

>>385886917
LP is for wimps.

>>385877270
This actually ended up putting me off from it. At the end he says it kinda sucks.

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>>385887267
Sorry, I can't hear you over the size of my 99 LP pool

>>385886917
Doesn't a vampire in RS3 have a similar mechanic?

>>385853487

Where should I start with this series? I can emulate any game from PS2/PSP back. I really enjoyed Last Remnant and SaGa is the closest to more of that that there is as far as I know.

>>385887594
Saga Frontier 1 or Romancing Saga the minstrels song would be my two recommendations.

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>>385887435
I made her my final empress last time I played, was pretty cool

>>385860451

>tfw wanted to play this game

Literally, what stopped me is that the OST wasn't made by Kenji Ito, probably because that's what drew me the most to the series in the first place, but fuck that, I'm a casual, I only played Frontier and nothing else, just a bit of the GB ones, but I love everything from SaGa except how unfinished it is at some parts, specially the feel, the music, the backgrounds, the animation and the "open world" feel, that should be explored a lot more in RPGs, I can only think of this series and FF1 that went ahead and gave you a world to explore a tyour own pace and style.

In Minstrel Song, what governs glimmers?
Does the move I'm using matter?
For instance, can I learn all the martial arts from just basic Punch or do I need to use certain moves to unlock certain other moves, similar to how SaGa Frontier works?

>>385886270
Wait, what happens if you accept her curse?

>>385887918
Masashi Hamauzu is a divine being among composers though, his music is some of the best in the business.

>>385887936
Moves lead to other moves. The enemy difficulty and I believe your class level also matters. I'm not sure if characters have inherent aptitudes like they did in frontier.

>>385870145

From my perspective.

Best to worst
>Red
>TG 260g
>Asellus
>Blue
>Emelia
>Lute
>Riki

I liked them all, but I didn't like having monsters in my party since they were a bit too luck based for my taste, and Coon's story was a chore for me to play, Lute lacks in story but I really loved how open it is.

>>385887936
I worded that poorly, moves lead to moves lmao. I believe throws will get you more throws punches more punches etc. I also believe that the style of mood as well as your current "stance" affects thing as well. Moves can be attack defence or trick. You can use a martial arts master to set yourself to one of those modes, I like defence personally because counters are sick. Blacksmiths can do the same for weapons.

>>385887936
Enemy rank determines how easy it is to glimmer.
Certain battles (ie. boss battles) also increase the odds you have to glimmer.
Some moves can only be glimmered by using specific moves, such as One-Two-Three is the only way to learn Nine Marks, or Punch to get Raksha.

>>385887554
Leonid?
No way man, Leonid doesn't even compare.
Heigel is a monster on rough stats alone and comes with proficiency in all weapon types, Leonid is an alright rapier user with some passable unique spells and no LP pool.
Also, if Leonid gets knocked out he simply comes back in the next fight, if Heigel gets knocked out you can't use her for a few battles because Scarlet Grace works on another set of mechanics when it comes to LP recovery, if you lose Heigel on a chain battle you're one party member short and need to replace her with somebody else for a while.
And again, stat wise Heigel is a monster, consider that 15 is the soft stat cap in the game and she has two 12 on both STR and Dex, 10 SPD and INT and 15 CNC, and Concentration is a key stat in Scarlet since it determines damage values, evasion values, recovery from mental statuses and shield parries, Heigel is hands down the best archer, spear and rapier user in the game and basically a top tier in literally anything but is a super high risk character, especially since she has low CON, meaning her HP pool grows very slowly and has paper thin defense.
Leonid can't compare at all in any way, he's light years beyond Heigel in stats alone and he's also relegated to spark tables which don't exist in Scarlet, Heigel is the ultimate glass cannon in the same way Silver is in Minstrel Song or Michelle in Unlimited.
>>385887918
Hamauzu also composed a lot of music for SaGa, he's Ito's alternative.
>>385887936
>what governs glimmers?
Many things, the move you're using, the BR of enemies, the difference between your level and the enemy's, low health and so on.
>can I learn all the martial arts from just basic Punch
Nope, it's like all SaGa games, some moves lead to others.
>>385888046
You go live with her in her hut in the village of Lug and then persuade her to let you go, she's a yandere but she got her wish granted so she lets you do whatever you want, afterwards you can recruit her.

>>385887936
Depends on the enemy level. You can learn some great shit fighting the Jewel Beast for example...but good luck living to actually keep them.

>>385888585
Oh. I was assuming regular SaGa stat caps so she seemed really mediocre. Nevermind then.

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>>385888905
Given how Scarlet works it's hard to find a truly mediocre character, but some characters' stat tables are really jarring nonetheless.
It does help that Roles are a thing and you can mitigate stat deficiencies to an extent while also using other particular roles to rebalance a character.
Even top tier characters have some really troublesome catches, like Asrana having 5 CNC, the lowest possible value while having excellent DEX and INT, but she's kind of a reverse Ward, so it kinda makes sense

A long time ago, I was trying to get into SaGa with Frontier. I picked Red because Alkaiser, but as I was playing it, I had no idea what the fuck was happening. The story just went places and left me in the dust. I think I ended up grinding a bit in an abandoned lab and quitting because I had no idea what to do. Was I just retarded or is the game hard to follow? Was there a more coherent character to choose?

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>>385889985
>Was I just retarded or is the game hard to follow?
SaGa's narrative is more minimalistic than most other series out there, but if you didn't understand Red's story I don't know what to tell you, he's literally Kamen Rider, he hunts down Black Cross baddies for justice and to have his revenge over the death of his family.
>Was there a more coherent character to choose?
Asellus I guess.
One thing you should know is that all characters in SaGa Frontier, in most SaGa games with multiple MCs really, share bits of their own story with other MCs, so if you really wanna get everything out of the story you need to play with every character, Frontier is really focused on that, especially for characters like Emilia or Lute.

>>385889985
Frontier's plots tend to jump around like that. The game does very little to guide you or hold your hand. That freedom is exciting for some people, but it can be frustrating when you just want to make progress in the character's story without knowing how.

For Red, you end up doing a bunch of random missions while on the Cygnus. Afterwards, you can follow up on each of those plot threads and they lead you to the rest of Red's story.

I typically suggest people play Blue first, since his entire plot just requires that you master different schools of magic--these are sidequests available to every other character.

Riki's (Coon, if you're not playing the EN version) plot probably has the most actual direction in it, if only because you can literally ask a character where you need to go.

>>385890310
Asellus definitely gets the most in terms of plot, but there are times that, if you don't know what to do, it can be infuriating.

Wandering around the castle at the beginning as well as trying to actually have the various knights show up later can be a real hassle for someone who doesn't know where to go or what to do.

I always felt like T260G and Emilia's plots had a bit more direction than most of them, with Riki's probably being the easiest as far as figuring out what to do next.

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>>385868674
Alright
The battle system. I love the notion of passive buff and debuff control that can switch between the player and enemy.
The art style. It's a lovely combination of the smooth, lovely chibis that fit the art of the cover and the detailed art of Kobayashi for the main characters and Cherubim that you can use for the characters. The monsters have a lovely, cartoonish charm to them and the individual elements of most non-wasp/dragonling body enemies are well done in relation to the monster's own designs.
The Encyclopedia. This is where my autistic Pokefag tendencies come in, I loved hunting down the Immortal Mantis and Lost Dreadnought, and the drops that carried over felt like they were worth hunting for, they had a distinct sense of value because of how useful they were and the lack of other items carrying over. I love filling out the book.
The lack of focus on a plot was also something that really drew me into it. I love JRPGs with good stories (and even average stories, I'm kind of a sucker for video game plots) but TLoL's lack of one let me enter the world and explore without having the game's exposition dictate the world to me. The world, which looks like a colored storybook, felt so much more alive and like I was actually exploring a proper world that hadn't been seen before or had been lost to time. It was possibly the most immersed I had ever felt in a JRPG despite the admittedly small size of the world compared to larger JRPGs. Every secret hollow, every Spirit Perch placed around the locations, all the small cues that told of the world gave me a significant appreciation of where I was wandering around and what had been there a long time ago. No NPCs to explain the world to me, no overarching focus on a desperate struggle against an evil overlord/demon, and when the final boss did come it didn't feel like the game had tried to push me towards him. It felt more that I had encroached on him while he was doing something else and
(Cont.)

>>385887936
If you want to spark a bunch of shit you can go fight Pyrix if your ER still has the normal one around. Losing to him isn't a game over and doesn't affect your BR but you keep all the shit you spark.

>>385890571
>I always felt like T260G and Emilia's plots had a bit more direction than most of them
That's true, well, I don't know about T260G though, once you get out of Scrap the game really doesn't tell you that you need to check that terminal in Koorong and then go all over to another unspecified region after speaking with Leonard, Riki gets Meiling as a guide for most of his main quest, so he's probably the one with the more railroaded main quest together with Blue, though even in Blue's case you really don't get many clues about Runes for instance, if you choose tarots you have it easier, but nobody tells you how to get to Despair or Tanzer, for the former you need to talk to Annie, who tells you to piss off before you start the rune quest, and Tanzer literally just happens.

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>>385853487
does this count? because this shit defined my childhood

>>385890987
His ER will always have the normal one because Pyrocanis is NG+ only, and requires a specific set of circumstances for him to appear.
Pyrix is also annoying to spark off of because he can wipe you in 1-2 turns, has perma immolation, and can waste one or two characters' LP

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>>385891075
>can literally kill God with a chainsaw

>>385890310
>>385890372
Thanks, you guys. You've convinced me that problem lied with me, which is all I really wanted to know. I'll try to get back into it one of these days.

>>385889381
So do characters not gain stats in Scarlet? If 15's the softcap it seems they're getting really close to pen and paper. Also sounds like a lot less grinding

>>385891160
my favorite thing in the world, though I think I would usually save a glass sword for that fight too

>>385891160
SaGa: Killing God before it was cool and with chainsaws

>>385891124
I thought they could get possessed in normal NG? Been a while though. LP is a problem but once you have the shortcut it's not too hard to get out of the mountain safely to heal. And you really only need one LP stack thrown at him to get some competent skills going. It helps that I had terrible spark luck when I found out about that so some of my characters learned like 10+ skills from fucking nothing because they were being trash.

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>>385890876
>The battle system. I love the notion of passive buff and debuff control that can switch between the player and enemy.
This is a thing in most SaGa games outside of the GB trilogy(excluding the DS remakes), SaGa actually has a lo more indepth mechanics for those.
>The art style.
Can't really go wrong with that either, especially if you like sprites, and if you like Kobayashi's art Scarlet has almost perfect 1:1 renders of her concept art.
>The Encyclopedia.
This is troublesome as no SaGa game except maybe Minstrel Song has anything like that, lore is all told in game.
>>385890876
>The lack of focus on a plot was also something that really drew me into it
>very secret hollow, every Spirit Perch placed around the locations, all the small cues that told of the world gave me a significant appreciation of where I was wandering around and what had been there a long time ago.
Again, all SaGa games do this.
>No NPCs to explain the world to me
This might be problematic since what little info the games give you is told through either NPC dialogues or visual info, then again, Frontier 2 might satisfy you on this since it's mostly focused on exploring old ruins or uncharted territory, you'll probably love the Tower of Laubholz and all the megaliths.
>no overarching focus on a desperate struggle against an evil overlord/demon, and when the final boss did come it didn't feel like the game had tried to push me towards him. It felt more that I had encroached on him while he was doing something else
Again, all SaGa games are like that, final bosses just happen, even games with more focus on them have then appear out of the blue.
>>385891160
What's not to love?
>>385891232
Yep, Scarlet works on the Proficiency system, no stat gain.
>If 15's the softcap it seems they're getting really close to pen and paper
>Also sounds like a lot less grinding
Pretty much, the game is literally taking place on a diorama with popups, not even kidding.

>>385891589
Pyrocanis requires
1) Completing Insect Ecology in a previous playthrough
2) Activating Insect Ecology in a current playthrough
3) Visiting a town at ER18 or higher
4) Returning to Pyrix to trigger his transformation
Other Elemental Lords have the same requirements with their respective Ecologies to trigger their evil forms

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>>385890876
(Cont.)
his people had shown a vague reasoning why he had been sealed away. The lore that was there was for me to piece together, writing it down and putting them in order for myself. Every singing stone had a part for me to collect and put into my collection, every piece of it was made so I could make sense of the world that I had been dropped into.
The optional bosses, particularly the dragons and Deathsaur, felt so enjoyable and challenging, without feeling unfair at most points (save for a dual Hellfire and an Evil Eye landing twice) because I had to find out the best way to beat them myself, without the game telling me how but still giving me a fair challenge. The game lets you get to just good enough for the level that the monsters are at, but refuses to let you grind stats or skills past that due to the way stat gains work (which is apparently near identical to SaGa).
The game never gets so over the top it's ridiculous, but doesn't shy away from interesting enemies and elements.
The OST is divine and Masashi Hamauzu is one of my absolute favorite composers, right up there with Yuzo Koshiro. Fits the areas, battles, and everything else in an way that not every game can pull off this well.
Other small elements I appreciated were the item boats, NG+ style, and general small world touches.
Had to cut it down a little and leave a few bits out, but there you go. I hope I could explain it well, I couldn't materialize all my thoughts into two posts. I'm very passionate about this game.

>>385891758
Oh nice, I thought it was just something you could get forced on you one your ER was high enough. I should play romancing again, it's been too long.

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Here's an image from the norther ends of the world, it's literally a flat slab of earth with various popus for enemies or locations.
>>385891896
It's good to see you're so passionate about the game, I am the same when it comes to SaGa games.
I understand that you're looking for a particular kind of exploration though, that is admittedly hardly a thing in SaGa, but that's a problem with the general scenario and setting, Alliance Alive is nothing like LoL when it comes to that really, the only SaGa game that fits that description is Frontier 2, because again, you're mostly exploring ruins of old civilizations and wild, uncharted areas, but even there there are NPCs who can tell you various trivia, because you're playing in a civilized world and not some abandoned island.

I do suggest you to play through SaGa games all the same, because everything else you want, especially down to the entire gameplay which is extremely more polished and expanded in SaGa, is in there, Kobayashi is SaGa's main character designer and illustrator and Hamauzu composed the stellar scores for both Frontier 2 and Unlimited, so if you can't stand Itoken's more flamboyant style you'll appreciate those games more, Itoken's really good though, like really, really good, he's the only guy crazy enough to make a disco theme for a sewer dungeon full of undeads, then again, all people involved in SaGa are crazy to a degree.

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>>385892

>>385892658
That wasn't meant to be a reply by the way.

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>>385891715
I like the combination of the two styles in particular, without Kobayashi's it would feel too much like similar chibi style and without the chibi it would feel like a PC98 game but without the sprites that made them feel that way.
The Encyclopedia is the prime reason Minstrel Song was what checked off the box for "closest to what I would enjoy" since that is absolutely critical to what I enjoyed about TLoL. Without one it would dampen the experience immensely and drain a lot of enjoyment for me.
I generally do prefer abandoned places in them but nothing like the apocalypse wasteland style settings in so many WRPGs. TLoL's was also mixed into the natural world, so that's also a factor. Reminded me of Etrian Odyssey a tad.
I mean I don't abhor NPCs, but the lack of them was what helped me feel immersed in the world. I prefer if the game has NPCs explaining stuff that the rest of the game is going along with, i.e. a plot and worldbuilding story.
>>385892461
I know Alliance Alive isn't anything like it, but it looks like a great JRPG regardless of that. I don't want everything to be like TLoL, it was special to me due to how unique it is and how different it had been from the past ones I had played. I might play Minstrel Song if I can drag myself past the use of an emulator (I know it's silly, but that's just how they are for me), since it has the encyclopedia from what I have heard. The encyclopedia is very important for games like this to me, collecting info from exploration in a book makes it feel more worthwhile exploring, rather than just going around like that. I do sometimes make my own physical documents for such things but I prefer the use of in game ones when they are there.

>>385892461
Also, to add on my previous post, SaGa has some really great villains and characters in general.
The Seven Heroes from Romancing SaGa 2 are some of the most iconic in the series and JRPGs as a whole, but they're not some demon lords or mustache twirling evil gods, they have a really good story and characterization behind them and it's all done very simply, with no melodrama, even though they're extremely tragic, which is why a lot of people where overjoyed to have them kind of redeem themselves in Imperial's storyline.
But even so Frontier's villains are also particularly strong, Orlouge and Genocide Heart especially, but what's more important is that SaGa gives you a bit of everything.

You want evil gods behind every little thing? There's Saruin.
You want evil gods who just happen to be there? There's Firebringer
You want random eldritch abominations from god knows where? There's the destroyer, Chaos Ruler, the Egg or Master Ring
You want literal whos? There's Diva, Yun Crimsonrain or Mondo
You want tragic heroes who dindu nuffin? There's the Seven Heroes or The Conqueror
You want people who just happened to be in your way? There's the Round Table, Jeanne Maure, Siegfrey or Saunock

There's really something for everybody.

>>385893519
>since it has the encyclopedia from what I have heard.
It really doesn't, it has a really loose questlog.
Even Scarlet Grace has just a questlog but no actual enciclopedia.

>>385893547
I see. They sound like high quality JRPGs in general but I don't think I'd like them in the same way that I liked TLoL. To avoid disappointment, which one has the MOST story? If a JRPG has little story focus it has to be similar to how TLoL handled it for me to enjoy it the same way.
>>385893661
Ah. Well that's not so good, I have been misinformed.

>>385894961
>which one has the MOST story
The most story "focused" games in the franchise are Romancing SaGa 2, SaGa Frontier 2 and Scarlet Grace, but said story focus is really 90% lore, 5% characters and 5% of the main quest.
SaGa Frontier 2 is the only one that has a definite focus on a main story of sorts, and it's still all done in the usual minimalistic SaGa way.
To be perfectly honest with you, you're not going to find anything that works like LoL in SaGa, you're not going to find it in any JRPG outside of stuff like Shadow Tower, which is ARPG stuff either way where the world is just a giant dungeon with no actual story or lore behind it, Vagrant Story also kind of does it, but there's still an overarching main plot in there and it's definitely story focused, it does have a pretty nice encyclopedia function though.
The only other series that comes close to LoL in terms of setting is Metal Max, and again, you're playing in a postapocalyptic HnK setting where there are many NPCs and cities, the exploration in MM is very similar to LoL though, especially for the first one/Returns, but still, no encyclopedia in those games either.
LoL is structured around exploration and reconstructing the end of a civiliation through remnants, that's the main thematical difference between that and SaGa games with similar themes, the two Frontier games, and especially Unlimited and Scarlet Grace all have a similar setting of exploring a world full of ruins of past civilizations, but again, the societal aspect is in there, SaGa strives for that.

Overall, the closer you'll get to LoL's experience is Unlimited, but it plays radically differently from anything, there's no Kobayashi doing the designs, even though Hamauzu composed the music, and there's no encyclopedia, NPCs are not common but there's also a main quest for each of the protagonists which sets the narrative and theme for each one of them.
You really should try and go beyond that need of a clone in terms of setting.

One other little thing to add to this>>385896187, SaGa does a thing that most other RPGs series don't do, mostly because they don't operate on a structure with multiple MCs.
Being a series focused on creating functional worlds more than an engrossing main quest, SaGa basically fragments and breaks the lore in little pieces and distributes them among all the different MCs, each MC gets to see certain things under a different point of view than others, some MCs also get to witness events or locations that other MCs don't, some MCs get to interact with other characters in a way other MCs cannot, and finally, some MCs simply have a completely different role in their own worlds in respect to other ones which entails all manners of implications in terms of narrative.

To make a practical example with Frontier like I did earlier, the lore is fragmented in such a way that even the same quest you do with five different characters might have some unique little twists and narrative details that help composing a bigger picture, you don't really know what the mysterious sci fi ruins in Shingrow are until you play as T260G, you don't really know much about the Magic Kingdom until you play as Blue, which also ties his own story to Rki's( and you'll never know about if if you play as Riki), the little girl you meet in Tanzer talks about Alkaizer but if you don't play as Red you'll never know who is Alkaizer, nor you'll know anything about the ship you take to go to regions like Manhattan or the weird cop that joins you after doing the Shield Card Quest in IRPO.
You can recruit Emilia with most characters but you don't really know much about this bunny girl from Baccarat until you play as her, Annie, the girl in front of the italian restaurant in Koorong seems like a cunt but playing as Red or Emilia gives you a radically different portrayal of her, and having her in your active party with Riki on a certain quest also gives you both more info on her and a certain region.
>>>

>>385894961
You could try The Last Remnant. It's more story focused than usual SaGas but still offers quite a bit of freedom. infact more than half the game world is optional

Also for the encyclopedia thing, it's actually not that common in games.

>>385897338
What I think you like about LoL, if I got things right, is the feeling of discovering things by piecing up fragments of information by yourself, or at least, that's what I think you liked.
SaGa always does this very same thing, but in a more complex way since you need to consider all kinds of different sources, some stuff is also deliberately left up to the player's interpretation, especially when it comes to certain locations(see the crystal ruins in RS3, the tower of Laubholz in SF2 or any of the Seven Wonders in Unlimited), if you can get past your need of no NPCs and encyclopedias I'm pretty sure you'll be able to enjoy the same thrill of piecing up a world little by little by hunting for every little particular by yourself, if I'm right about you that is, but you really should consider this.

If you honestly liked LoL, I can't help but tell you that you're really missing out due to some weird form of prejudice, I can understand how you feel but I can't say you're making the right decision in dissing what LoL tried to copy and mostly failed to emulate, LoL is a direct descendant of SaGa after all.

>>385896187
Thanks for the recommendations.
I'm not looking for a clone as said>>385893519, it's just that I usually do love a good, story focused JRPG. TLoL is more of an anomaly borne of enjoying a demo and then enjoying the game just as much, rather than the general ones I deliberately seek out.
TLoL in particular had a setting that I do deliberately seek out however, and that's a society that has recovered from its own end and forgotten the old world. Such settings are in games like Etrian Odyssey, Shining Force, and 7th Dragon (mostly 2020-2 and 3), but are somewhat rare overall.
Vagrant Story sounds the most enjoyable for me from your recommendations however. The platforms I do have are limited (Genesis, insanely shitty PC, Xbox, GBA, Wii, 3DS) so most of these will be put on backlog simply due to having physical copies of games I want to complete first. People have told me Unlimited is bad though in other SaGa threads, is this true?
>>385897338
Yeah, TLoL does that but splits the lore in an extremely lopsided manner. Firstly there's the Whispering Shards, they basically give the pieces of the lore for the world in partial poem form. Then certain characters get more or less lore and different snippets of dialogue when activating a singing stone or fighting a boss. For example, Eloise has a small cutscene that happens when she sleeps at the Inn. No other character has this, and it is never explained. Bianca feels strange when she looks to the Golems, Coco recognizes her before ever meeting her, and she knows Amelius personally when she meets him, citing that he had done her wrong in the past despite the game telling you he had been buried alive beneath the sea for many years before the start of the game.
>>385897727
Yeah I know, but in this kind of game it really made me want to keep exploring since there was something to hold a record of it.
>>385897867
I mean I love exploratory worlds and games with big universes to explore, which I have been a
(Cont.)

>>385897867
>>385898170
-ssured are in SaGa, the encyclopedia is just a personal proclivity that I had in regards to it. Now I know it's somewhat divisive among JRPG fans who like or hate the amount of text, but Golden Sun 2 had the perfect sized world for me and I adored exploring it, and it had no encyclopedia. But there was an impetus, a motivation for me in the form of a heavy plot focus, and to be really honest, heavy plot focus is usually what I prefer in JRPGs. In TLoL, the encyclopedia was my force to go on and explore. The maps and things I find are saved and recorded to a book, which takes the place that the plot usually does. I'm not trying to put SaGa down by any means, I fully acknowledge that they're better games as an overall package than TLoL and TLoL is objectively (and not in the /v/ meme sense) inferior to it. It's just the perfect blend for me and me alone. When people ask if I recommend it in JRPG threads I always say no, don't bother (or give them a summary if they show more interest), because I know I'm the only one who likes it this much and almost everyone I've recommended it to before that disliked it and regretted trying the game out. I'll probably play SaGa one day, but lack of physical copies of it is more what dampens my will to play it than simply not being the same style.

I've got the SaGa 2 and 3 translated DS remakes sitting in a folder on my computer; should I play them or are they not worth my time? I've only played TLoL, and I like the whole gain-abilities-in-battle-by-doing-things thing.

>>385898913
You don't spark in SaGa 1-3. Well espers kinda do but not in the general sense later SaGas have it function. They're still worth playing though. 2's one of my favorites.

>>385898170
>People have told me Unlimited is bad though in other SaGa threads, is this true?
Unlimited is...complex.
It's a game that breaks away from any and all conventions and it's purely experimental in nature, most SaGa games are experimental for their own times but Unlimited is basically the epithome of exploring a videogame's mechanical potential and the need to innovate and break free from conventions for the sake of advancing the medium.
It is by no means a bad game(it does have some flaws though, all games do), what it is is a very, very weird game, which obviously makes it hard for the vast majority of people to get into it, unless you're a fa/tg/uy I guess since it's basically a tabletop simulation for most things, and even so you have to wrap your head around a system where every actor has infinite HP and other weird stuff.
What I can tell you is that it's simply not for plebs, it's an aquired taste, all of Kawazu's games are, but Unlimited is so much of an aquired taste that even most people in the SaGa community either say that it's the peak of the series or irredimable trash, that's the fate of games that are far too ambitious in exploring possibilties for the sake of it, they divide and split fanbases.
LoL really takes a lot of points from Unlimited when it comes to exploration, though Unlimited is immensely more symbolic and crytpic in pretty much everything.
>I fully acknowledge that they're better games as an overall package than TLoL and TLoL is objectively (and not in the /v/ meme sense) inferior to it.
Well, LoL's problem is that it simply isn't fleshed out as much as SaGa overall, some people will also complain about the lack of innovation, which is a huge sin for any game that tries to take the mantle of the series, but at the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference.
>>385898913
>should I play them
Absolutely, they're pieces of history and great remakes.
>>385899071
You do spark in the SaGa 3 remake.

Does anyone have experience with TLR on pc? It seems like everyone does the PC ultimate grind, but I'd kind of rather not. Is the post game content still completable without micromanaging stat growth compared to BR? The game has a reputation for being brutal if you don't but I think that might be mostly on the 360 version.

>>385899389
You can beat the game without doing that, but don't count on doing true conqueror or the super fights without some autism

>>385899487
I don't mind grinding, but the pc grind is actually one shotting worms for 8 hours. Fuck me man. I just spent a bunch of time farming in the bio research lab, but it was different monsters, I was getting money and items, and I wasn't just one shotting worms.

Maybe I'll hit a middle ground and Do like 1500 chains instead of the fucking 8000 everyone seems to do. Grinding for 8 hours then shitrolling the rest of the game seems boring as fuck.

>>385899389
>Is the post game content still completable without micromanaging stat growth compared to BR?
Depends on how good you get at exploiting the system and grinding, you can totally most of the game with Rush down to the most powerful version of the final boss, but the problem is that TLR is filled with layers and layers of grinding if you are a completionist, as in equipment, stats, techs, tech levels, roles and a lot more, a 100% game file will force you to go through the meat grinder, SaGa is much more concise as long as you know what you're doing you, TLR simply won't allow you to have fun without grinding.

>>385899653
I don't have the 100% bug, but I like being able to kill super bosses. I heard the PC version has less of a "follow a guide the whole game or you're fucked" setup. I'm at the point in the game where if I was going to do the ultimo grind it would have to be now, but I really don't want to. It's the worst kind of grind. I'd rather just level somewhat organically then farm high br monsters late game.

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>>385899226
I see. The general complaint I've seen is simply people generally say the game is too obtuse, even for SaGa. I do enjoy many things that are apparently for /tg/, such as drawing my own maps on real paper like in Shining in the Darkness (or a substitute, like EO), but Idk.
I suppose going in and not expecting a game series that I had grown attached to and loved gave me a different opinion of it than a huge SaGa fan who they marketed towards. Eh. I've kind of already accepted that I'm pretty alone in regards to TLoL and it's an objectively terrible game that fails to do everything it set out to do for the SaGa fans they promised, but I personally hold as a 10/10. Maybe I'm just a contrarian autist who likes bad games, meh, I'm no stranger to having terrible taste, I liked FE Echoes more than Fates, Shining Force 1 over 2, etc. Not much else to say on it, other than I guess I forgot to say I liked the sudden jut in difficulty as soon as you enter Propylaea.

>>385899613
It's not as good but there's a dragon you can farm as well called Bai-ze. Way better for learning skills too. The worms just work because of the sheer number and the almost guaranteed max turns on stat payout. You also don't have to do that at all and could just play normally and see how you do. worm grinding can fuck up jobs anyway

>>385899945
>I do enjoy many things that are apparently for /tg/, such as drawing my own maps on real paper

You don't need to draw maps for unlimited, but that's because you're literally playing on a map with a player piece in dungeons.
https://youtu.be/Bcah08_BYZk?t=10m58s

>>385900162
I think I might do that, or just do a little bit of worm grinding because I had been doing a low br run up to this point, just to catch up a bit. Maybe I'll keep a save here in case I hit a brick wall or something

>>385900321
Low Br on PC is pretty fun. Or fighting only bosses/forced encounters. It's viable up until the Seven, then things get too rough

>>385900281
The battle system looks decent, but no offense intended, the dungeoneering looks awkward and hamfisted due to the strange dual interface they have.

>>385900565
Alright. I'll just stop worrying about it I guess.

Is Romancing SaGa 2 on mobile worth it?

>>385899805
>but I like being able to kill super bosses
Uh, good luck if you want to defeat stuff like the Fallen without grinding then.
Sure, you can spam Cachexia but even that isn't enough to win if you don't have decent equipment/techs/tech levels.on your unions.
>>385899945
>The general complaint I've seen is simply people generally say the game is too obtuse, even for SaGa.
It's totally true, I don't personally find it a bad thing because I really like to decode stuff by myself, but it's undeniable the game doesn't really hold your hand or explain itself, and it's a very complex and exotic system that works unlike anything else out there, and it also doesn't pull any punches, if you don't take the time to learn to play the game and withstand some really hard kick in the balls you will most certainly drop it and label it as shit.
It's a wonderful game that doesn't feel one bit archaic by this day, especially since most JRPGs are only now starting to adopt certain mechanics that Unlimited invented almost two decades ago, like having functional ecology, but it's as cryptic as Dwarf Fortress.
>than a huge SaGa fan who they marketed towards
Well, SaGa fans, the community in general is not really homogeneous so you can't really trust us, most people do like the series uniqueness but there's also a large part of the community that would prefer a return to less symbolistic and more videogame-y roots of the fifith generation standards, while a minority of people are perfectly fine with the direction the series has taken and wants more of it, then there are the fujoshi.

If there's one thing the vast majority of the community agrees on, is that Kawazu needs to keep doing what he's doing, sure he'll mess up sometimes but what all people like is his own distinctive touch and creative systems, even if he fucks up big time sometimes, but he's one of the few guys left who really does things his own way, he gives zero fucks and that's what's important for SaGa.

>>385900641
Its where most of the pen and paper comparisons come from.

Player - I move east
DM - There's some slimes
P - I move north
DM - there's a treasure chest
P - I use disarm and roll a 4
DM - your disarm skill is level 3, success
P - I use fortune teller to double the chest's level
DM - ok
P - I use fortune teller to double the chest's level
DM - ok
P - I use fortune teller to double the chest's level
DM - ok
P - I use fortune teller to double the chest's level
DM - ok
P - I use fortune teller to double the chest's level
DM - Stop

The menu is for your skills, the reels are your dice rolls (and yes reels get easier with better level skills just like a lower roll has a higher success with better stats in P&P)

>>385900641
>the dungeoneering looks awkward and hamfisted due to the strange dual interface they have.
It's actually very functional once you get used to it, it's weird to look at but once you begin to tinker with it and familiarize yourself with all the macros and general layouts it's extremely functional.
>>385900781
Controls on mobile are garbage, but you can emulate it on PC and play with a keyboard or a proper controller.
The game itself is the definitive version of the game too.

>>385900917
I'm fine with grinding, but I'd like to do grinding later in the game, rather than grinding worms and trivializing the rest of the game. I like to do my grinding as it's required rather than doing it all at the start and ruining the rest of the game.

>>385901124
>but I'd like to do grinding later in the game
Problem is that after a certain Rank certain enemies simply stop appearing, and if you didn't get enough components by that time you fucked up, it's hard to do so, especially for someone familiar with SaGa, but it is possible, and a real nuisance.

>>385900917
>like dorf fort
Hah. But yeah probably. It certainly looks that way outside of battle. It's good that such a thing exists but it's an odd duck.
I pretty much based that off the general reception I see in most threads. TLoL falls into the awkward territory between too hard and not-explanatory enough for casual JRPG players and too easy and small for the people they wanted to like it.
>Fujos
Kek. Elaborate, I'm going to bed and I'd like something to see in the morning.
Keep on enjoying it anon, I'll sit here with my copy of TLoL and hope someone will want to play it too.
>>385901054
Strange but it makes some sense when you put it in such terms.
>>385901057
I meant more in terms of the way they split the map and the appearance of the dungeon itself.

>>385901826
I think worst case I'll do that shit on ng+. I don't want to trivialize my first real run by spending the whole game near max stats.

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>>385901853
>It certainly looks that way outside of battle.
You don't have the faintest idea of how autistically deep the battle system is, if you think the UI and dungeon crawling looks complex the battle system will blow you away.
>Kek. Elaborate
See, SaGa has always had tons of really hot older men, Hawke, Gray, Leon, Enrique, then there's young boys/Bishounes like Albert, Red, Blue, the more rough and manly types like Fuse or Kahn, then there's all those cute and stylish girls, little girls, musclegirls, monstergirls, grannies and whatever else but honestly, the hot older men like Hawke, Sharl or Harid basically created a super hardcore fanbase of Fujo who ship anything with anyone, Yuri, Yaoi whatever it goes really, you'll find the weirdest pairings because SaGa doesn't really have a lot of canon romances so fujos can go batshit crazy, Kobayashi herself is a huge fujo too, did you know she made a CloudXSephiroth light Yaoi illustration album? She also ships characters like Ragna and Jin in Blazblue, she does tons of illustrations for BL novels too when she's not working on SaGa or other videogames, she's quite fond of hunks herself, and rockstars, Fuse is literally Steward Copeland after all, Balmaint is basically Gene Simmons and so on.
SaGa has a huge fujoshi following because it's one of the few JRPG series with loads of old handsome hunks.
>I meant more in terms of the way they split the map and the appearance of the dungeon itself.
I actually find that really endearing, the way you have a little standalone picture for each section of the map is pretty cool.

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>>385865512
Good morning tLoLanon, knew I'd find you here as soon as I opened this thread
Looks like I steered you well by pointing out the SaGafags were a comfy bunch

That said, friendly reminder that the Alliance Alive is GOTY 2017 and everyone who can read moon should play it
Despite being much easier and having less depth than SaGa overall, it's still a blast and a harmonius marriage between SaGa clone and other JRPG aspects that don't get in the way

>>385900917
Oh yeah and before I go to bed, thanks for listening, I rarely get someone who gives enough of a shit on /v/ to listen to me rant about how much I like TLoL. Sometimes I wish there were others to talk to about the game itself but it's lovely to be able to release the dribbling, seething passion I hold for the game out in a long burst with someone who will listen.
>>385902620
Hey sup anon, nice to see you again. I hope that it gets brought over, I always pop in for the JRPG/3DS/SaGa threads to say that.

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>>385902608
oh my
Kobayashi
BL
romances
I'll have to tell my sister in the morning

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>>385902770
I know, I just didn't keep bullying you about it because it isn't funny unless I have something new to say
which there isn't yet

That said I hope with you because even EOPs deserve to enjoy something that good
But it's nice to see that other anons give better explanations than I do on why you should become a SaGafag, more brethren is always a good thing

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>>385902770
>Oh yeah and before I go to bed, thanks for listening
No problem buddy, we all like the same things at the end of the day, maybe in slightly different flavours but we're all a big SaGa family, and family sticks together in the good or bad moments.
>>385902904
You really didn't know?
She's basically the lost CLAMP sister, she also likes Jidai Geki, unsurprisingly, and Harry Potter and tons of other stuff, and she ALWAYS draws hunks, you should see her own version Snape.

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Like really, this is "that guy" Cloud according to Kobayashi.

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>>385902608
Silence singlehandedly made me realize I might be gay

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>>385903769
Silence is so good Sunrise had to rip him off for their own anime.

>>385903661
Pls be alive in the morning thread, I just opened this because I'm bored but damn

What is the best first game to play in the series?

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>>385905408
Either go in production order or play SaGa 2, Romancing SaGa 3 or Frontier, these three are the holy trinity for newcomers.

>>385905729
What's the definitive version, the gameboy or DS version of SaGa 2?

>>385906198
They are way different, play Gameboy first

>>385906294
Are they the same story, or is the remake different?

I know SaGa games have a less hands on story, so it might matter much anyways.

>>385906198
DS SaGa 2 is more of a Minstrel Song affaire in the sense that while all the original content is in the game there have been many adjustments, additions and new mechanics to the point that it is mechanically pretty different while also sharing the same base design, both versions should be considered their own thing, you'll also enjoy DS SaGa 2 a lot more if you played through the GB original so you can see all the little changes and how the new stuff changes the game.
They're fairly short games, especially the GB ones.
Story is mostly the same but the DS version has additional and expanded dialogues that are also influenced by a particular mechanic that ends up shaping the relationship between party members, that isn't a thing in the GB original.

>>385906438
Not sure about DS, but Gameboy saga 2 story is hilarious. You can be a robot or whatever, but your parents are human. That scene at the beginning where your robot lies in bed cracks me up.

>>385906760
>Dad
>Do you really have to get out of the window again

I swear I've seen the lead illustrator's stuff somewhere else

Which game did "sparking" start in?

>>385908851
RS2 I think

>Legend of Legacy/Alliance Alive granchildren are welcome too
No they aren't. Those games are fucking garbage. Almost as shitty as the people who like them.

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>>385910492