How do we save the MMORPG genre?

>>385759623
You really can't save mmo. It's too bloated. Especially with newer games becoming more and more "mmo-esque" in terms of open world and the like.

The genre is flawed by design. Having enough people to readily do whatever you also want to be doing, without having some immersion shattering cross-server matchmaking mechanic, just isn't realistic enough. Waiting around to do shit because of other people is just shitty. The amount of waiting around I did in WoW was almost unbelievable at times. And a very small percentage of guilds actually even experience the end game content anyway, largely because of that reason.

Take into account the very nature of needing as many people playing as humanly possible and that's inherently going to breed design choices that pandering to casuals to ramp up that player count. It's really the kind of genre that could have only excelled at its inception before the pandering took full hold.

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>>385759623
>How do we save MMOs, /v/?
The World VR

>>385759623

Well, the guy who made Dark Age of Camelot is apparently making a new game, and Crowfall seems like it could be a breath of fresh air. Then again, they are both still in early development, and that's not really what you're looking for.

MMORPGs can't be saved anymore. Popularity and high cost of development killed them.

>>385760478
>in development
That's it. Right there. Every potentially good MMO is always in development. And then 10 years later they're released, and they don't live up to expectations, then fade into the shadows behind WoW and XIV.

>>385760478
I hope crowfall is good. it has potential but I know better than to get excited over an mmo.

Build games for 1000 people instead of 10000.

>>385760674
Crowfall doesn't seem too far off being playable. It's really a game that needs the right population to succeed though.

>>385759623
>No Ultima Online. No Dark Age of Camelot. No Everquest. No Ragnarok Online. No Runescape.
those games are dead for a good reason. people don't like it.

Lower the normalfag population in the industry to pre-2007 levels. The rest will take care of itself.

>>385760921
>playable
Meaning it'll go into beta for 2 years, and by the time it's ready to be launched, nobody will give a shit about it anymore. That's what happened with Albion. It is just about to get out of beta into release and nobody really gives a fuck about it now since they got their fill dicking around on the beta for years.

I want a Conan-esque themepark sandbox hybrid. That way the raiding autists and the comfy farmers/builders can play the same game.

I dont think you can, mmo's require a lot of community cooperation and player commitment. Two things modern gamers don't have at all. People have the attention spans of gnats and the social skills of a saudi prince without the money to buy friends.

>>385759623
just personal opinion but i literally WANTED to fall in love with most MMO's i've ever played (top ones being WoW, Guild Wars and GW2).
Every fucking MMO now is the same thing. Choose your race/class, listen to unoriginal story for 5 minutes, start in the training area, kill 10 of this animal, collect 5 of this fruit now go off with no hand holding and quest and grind and pvp.....all of this taking MONTHS.

I absolutely love exploring some of these games since the environments are just gorgeous and sometimes meeting people is wicked cool. But needing to dedicate your life to these while doing the same shit over and over again with minimal reward and failing to keep player's attention...idk just ranting now i guess. I honestly don't think any newer MMO's will break any ground, VR is the only thing keeping me hopeful, so I can play a new MMO like it was .Hack\\Sign

Make levelling way way slower. Power increases should come from crafting or extremely rare drops, with tons of "low" level content for exploration with friends. Combat should reward skill and teamwork, not time spent grinding. Rewards for completing dungeons should be new areas to explore without major increases in enemy strength that make old areas useless to explore (and make their development worth less in terms of investment, since everyone will blow past it and never spend time on it or enjoy it. Almost everything should be a secret, and secrets should turn on and off randomly to prevent guides from being written and shared on the internet.

Can't wait for Universe of Warcraft to kill WoW

>>385759623

I play classic ffxi on a private server and it is mostly just us oldfags who like to shoot the shit in an ls and help eachother in a slow paced massive game.

Newer ones are all made to be played solo and lack in community and things to do outside of an endgame gear treadmill.
Younger people don't really want to commit to one game and take part in a virtual community for the most part either, they never grew up when it was a novelty.

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I'm about to start FF14.
Any particular class that's most desired/useful for endgame?
Any particular classes that are complete shit and I shouldn't bother with?

vidya tits for attention

MMOs need to have a way to generate a fresh, personalized experience for each user. Too often do modern MMOs focus on a design that guides the player towards a goal, when they should be thinking "How do we generate new, interesting content tailored specifically for the individual player?"

Pretty much every MMO on the market falls into the former category. At worst, the player is ran through the world like a treadmill, seeing 95% of the same things other players see, interacting with the world in the same way, and ultimately rushed through to the end where what the developers see as the "actual" content is. The players then compete in a cooperative experience that could be dumbed down to a "find match" button in any non-MMO -- and often is with the advent of Dungeon and Raid finders and their ilk. To paraphrase a quote from John Romero, if you can do your game with older tools and not sacrifice anything, tear what you have down and start from scratch. Modern MMOs need to take that approach and ask themselves if they could get away with not using their MMO portion, and if the answer is yes, their game needs to be re-evaluated.

At best, you have MMOs that rely on pitting players against players to generate a more dynamic and lasting stream of content, sort of like DAoC and EVE and other games do. These sorts of MMOs are on the right track, I'd say, in that they recognize that utilizing players to affect other players will create more personal experiences than purpose designed content can. What they fail to comprehend for the most part however is that more can be done with player action beyond direct cause and effect, such as players bashing each others' heads in. EVE somewhat touches on this with market effects and other indirect happenings, but is missing a key component to truly dynamic content, which is player actions also effect the environment as well.

>>385761989
Go monk.

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>play BDO
>do my daily grinding hour
>do my dailies while chatting in my guild
>do our boss and relic scrolls together while talking on TS
>later on they explain me the inticacies of getting the best bang for the buck accesories
>finish the day off by making fruit cake in one of the best cooking systems in MMOs
MMOs are stil good, you just grew out of them are busy with your life and don't have time to play you fucking normie.

>>385761989
Just play a fun class

>>385761989
Nah, just play whatever looks cool. Beyond the shortage of tanks and healers to get in to dungeons faster, pretty much all classes are wanted equally by good FCs.

As far as shit classes, rebalance happens often enough that what's bad today won't effect you until you start raiding within a month. In that case, avoid MCH and maybe DRG unless the last patch buffed them. Any tank is useful, healers have their places too, even if some see more niche use in specific team comps.

>>385761104
I think at least 80% of that is that Albion is terrible.

>>385761989
Ninja, Paladin, or Astrologian
That covers dps, tank, and healer, you have to reach the Heavensward area to unlock astrologian and you can't start as a ninja, you need to reach level 10 as another class first then you can unlock rogue which turns in to ninja, start as a gladiator to eventually become a paladin

>>385761989
go anything you like
most of the classes are in a good spot now

>>385762353
>it's the black desert shill
Every mmo thread, like clockwork
Fuck off with that buy to play pay to win bullshit

No one is chasing the WoW lookalike anymore. People are trying to find new angles, gimmicks and innovations that breathe at least some new life into the genre. Games like Crowfall change the core conceit of the MMO and try to offer something different from the standard WoW provides.

There's also console MMOs (or MMO-esque games) to look to in order to broaden horizons. Destiny 2 and Anthem will see to that.

>>385762614
>somebody brings up a current MMO in a MMO thread
WOOOOOOOOOOW

>>385762684
BDO is hardly current or relevant. Almost nobody outside of here I have spoken to has even heard of it compared to other mmos.

>>385762684
>5 cents has been deposited to your account
The only one worse is the Albion shill that was constantly making threads and trying to tell people that increased xp gains and better crafting yields with a lower crafting price wasnt actually pay to win either

>>385762792
>BDO is hardly current
Wat? Released a year ago (in the west) and has gained a lot of new players with the recent Steam release.

>>385762881
Nice non-argument.
By that logic every mention of FFXIV and WoW is shilling too.

Guild Wars 2 is the only servicleable MMO (Now that Heart of Thorns is fleshed out) but its still meh at best

Theres a decent amount of people online but its literally got zero hype for a new expac announcement tomorrow

>>385759962
Sadly the tech's just not there yet.

>>385763097
>By that logic every mention of FFXIV and WoW is shilling too.
No, people actually play those games and their threads talk about game play and lore shit, they aren't filled with a marketer desperately trying to explain how it isn't really paying to win or totally dead

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Remember me?

Blizzard saw the success of EQ and thought, "What if we took EQ and made it completely soloable and extremely casual?".

Blizzard then released World of Warcraft to great success enticing people who normally couldn't dedicate enough time to MMOs before it.

The issue here is that World of Warcraft broke all the rules of what makes MMOs MMOs.
>No need for player interaction
>Extensive use of built-in fast travel (not player run)
>No penalty upon dying
>Monsters aren't difficult to kill nor pose any danger
And it only got worse from there as the game went on..
>Cross server content
>Dungeon finder
>Portals in every major city to every major city
>Flying mounts

WoW turned modern "MMOs" into Facebook/MSN/Myspace.

Now every other AAA publisher saw what Blizzard did and wanted to make a quick buck as well. So for the next 10 years we got these HUGE budget WoW clones expecting to build up the same subscription numbers as Blizzard. Well it turns out that the target audience wasn't as big as these companies expected and almost every single one of these games crashed and burned.

Meanwhile anyone still playing MMOs before WoW are growing up. They don't have 8 hours a day to put into FFXI/EQ/DaoC/etc. They start playing WoW/WoW-clones as well. Younger people have no idea what MMOs were before WoW and play WoW-clones as their "first" MMOs.

We'll never get another true AAA MMO, but that's okay. There are some niche games coming from veteran developers who worked on the classics. Pantheon, Ashes of Creation, Camelot Unchained, etc. And bigger publishers are starting to get more experimental, but unfortunately still playing it too safe with how casual the games are. We should be happy with that. In the meanwhile, private servers like project99 are extremely populated and great fun.

It could be a while, but there'll be a return of true MMOs.

JUST STOP WITH THE FUCKING THEME PARKS

STOP IT
CEASE
YAMETE

>>385763346
I want to forget.

>>385763275
We literally have the level of VR tech the show was using, sound and visuals through the head set with the game controlled with a game pad or controller
I will admit it would take some ridiculous specs to run it all and look better than a ps2 game

what's the best MMO available right now

>>385761000
Every single one of those games is still running except for DaoC and that's only because of EA.

>>385763097
Well with how XIV threads have to hide themselves, I'd say that some people have an unnatural hatred towards any positive discussion surrounding some games. Like fuck I don't play it but they stay in their thread and I guess they're on-topic since I can't understand a goddamn thing they're saying, let them talk about the game if they want to. At least it's not another off-topic "culture" thread.

MMOs are both dying and evolving imo. They're changing with the times and becoming more casual-friendly at the expense of alienating the most hard-core players. To attract a wider audience you have to have systems and mechanics that let people jump in and have fun with most of the content fairly easily. WoW and XIV now have level skip potions, both encourage people to log on for a bit but not devote their lives to them, and they're the biggest in the genre. Catering exclusively towards hard-core players can't sustain an MMO any more.

>>385763568
old ones on private servers

>>385763568
stormblood

>>385763568
Black Desert Online

1. Guild Wars 2
2. FFXIV
3. ESO
4. Black Desert Online
5. Old School Runescape
6. WoW

>>385763617
It's one mod that hates the game. You can tell when he's off duty because the threads stay alive.

>>385763680
for >>385763568

>>385763408
You're half right, except WoW did not start that way. You can even see on a private server that the overworld is hostile as shit and you need to interact with others for every dungeon and raid. As for no death penalty, you still had a long ass corpse run as most zones only had one graveyard for each faction.

>>385759623
>No Runescape.
Doesn't RS have a ton of players?

>>385763573
DAoC still has an official server and an emulated one.

>>385763319
>FFXIV
>people actually play those games and their threads talk about game play and lore shit,
Have you never been to /XIVG/? Oh boy you're in for a great surprise.

>>385763346
WildStar could've been a contender, but a very buggy launch combined with an inordinate focus on "hardcore raiding" strangled the baby in its crib. It's still kinda active, but it's much smaller than it could be.

It's a crying shame.

>>385763785
Oh shit I didn't know DaoC still had a server running. Good for them.

What MMO lets me level my fishing so I can get lobster and then sell it to make money?

>>385763798
You don't go to the MMO generals on /vg/. Every one is full of avatarfags, ERP solicitations, cliques and discord drama bullshit. If you actually want to talk about the game without "post ur character" and s-stutter replies you need to go to /v/. This isn't unique to XIV, though I think their general is the worst cesspit of filth out of all of them.

/vg/ was a mistake

Create one with fun action.

>>385763829
>contender
It really couldn't have.

If you notice "the big 3" all have something going for them that other MMORPGs can't have, and that is the fact they're built on highly successful franchises back by tremendous amounts of lore of that franchise. WoW has become the Warcraft universe. FFXIV is a Final Fantasy fan's wet dream in terms of fan service. And ESO is basically it's own Elder Scrolls game.

Wildstar and any MMORPG today can't compete with the likes of them. Also, Wildstar's art was fucking horrible. That's just my opinion though.

>>385764078
A new IP by a new company did indeed mean that WildStar had more ground to cover. But from all the people I talked to, the setting/worldbuilding, art and lore were the least of the game's issues, if at all.

>>385763798
>/vg/
>we're here in /v/ which has on topic ff14 threads
Whatever you say marketing-kun
Now tell us about how you have to pay extra money in bdo to actually have the look of your armor change, per armor set, per piece, and how that's OK in a buy to play mmo

>>385763319
>No, people actually play those games and their threads talk about game
Both WoW and FFXIV is tripfag and e-celeb shitposting (with added catgirl/boy ERP in FFXIV), who are you trying to fool? I've played both and spent enough times in their generals to know that.
That said the BDO general is shit too. It's simply the fate of all MMO generals.

>>385763617
Since when do FFXIV threads hide themself?
Even it's own fanbase started to call it's own expansion "Shillblood" with how vocal they were about the game.

Well, even if it sounds like shilling BDO is harcore in a sense with extensive grinding and endgame being entirely PvP focused (with actuaqlly being able to conquer parts of the real map). It's the korean idea of hardcore, but it still appeals to a lot of people in the west, if you consider the success of Ragnarok Online for example.
There are also some people which do nothing but crafting and various lifeskills, which isn't much of a playstyle in most western MMOs (well at least the crafting is somewhat complex in FFXIV).

>>385764053
>/vg/ was a mistake
I feel bad for the guild wars guys, they can't even have a thread up in /vg/ even since some autist has a bot that spams their threads until they die, the mods have given up on trying to stop him and just let him do it

>create Korean-style MMO with highly customizable characters and active combat
>add a low sub fee because:
>no micro-transactions
OR
>add optional sub fee
>have purely cosmetic micro transaction options

I want to like waifu action games like B&S but I fucking hate "free to play, pay to have fun and actually access all the features" games. I also want to like traditional games like WoW and XIV but the customization options leave a lot to be desired and who really charges a $15 monthly sub in this day and age for ancient combat systems? Why can't we have the best of both?

>>385764273
That was my first post in this thread. I know you probably think you're in majority with your dumb ass logic, but you're the singleton dumb ass posting here.

Also here are some facts about BDO:
Different armor sets in BDO have different looks. Heve looks different than Grunil for example. These are the free in-game armor.

If you want to buy a costume off the pearl shop, you can. Or you can buy it from the in-game marketplace with in-game currency.

>>385763763
Armor damage penalties were much steeper back then too, gold-wise, especially for mail and plate classes. Gold was harder to come by and repair costs weren't normalized so mail and plate cost vastly more to repair than cloth and leather. Dying was an absolute bitch in vanilla.

>>385763680
>1. Guild Wars 2
This doesn't even merit a response.
>4. Black Desert Online
Hardly even a game, just a Korean waifu simulator for screenshots.

>>385759623
>saving something that was shit ever since it was created

>>385764668
>He only knows BDO by the shitlord /bdog/ threads

That's too bad.

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>>385764512
$15 a month keeps underage and gold farmers out. It is vital.

>>385764559
>call him a marketer and tell him to explain how it's actually ok
>he explains how in marketing terms, the absolute madman
This isn't even mentioning that the game is buy to play here while it's free to play every where else

>>385763680
>ESO
Literally what does that piece of shit have to offer?

MMOs are simply worse than match based games. Why play Wow when you can play PUBG, LoL, or Dead by Daylight? Gameplay in most MMOs is grind rats for 5 hours so you can do this patches' gear treadmill, while in match based systems, you are always having a fun and engaging gameplay experience.

>>385764814
XIV has a monthy sub on top of the cost of the game itself and it still has RMT issues out the ass on low-pop servers. Those scum suckers will always find a way.

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>>385764512
>MMO active combat
You mean where PvE is just a spam fest and PvP is actually the end game of which class can CC better to shut you down?
No thanks

>>385764987

XIV deserves to have bots because of the retarded shard system in crafting. Who wants to grind for actual crafting materials AND shards?

>>385764987
Brazil/China/Russia were mistakes

>>385764868
It's Bad Skyrim: Online. Not so hard to excel with no real competition.

>>385764923
>PUBG
>LoL
>a fun and engaging gameplay experience
Please take your own life at the earliest opportunity.

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>>385764814
WoW's never managed to keep out gold farmers til they took over the gold market themselves. The sub fee does nothing.

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>>385764512
How about we do both and excuse the massive content drought by saying it's a game you're not meant to play for more than an hour every other weekend?

the only thing that can save mmo is death

>>385765134

They are when compared to grinding rats and mining for 5000 hours like you do in most MMOs.

>>385764814
>$15 a month keeps underage and gold farmers out. It is vital.
Yeah that worked well for WoW and EvE and pretty much any other p2p MMO.

>>385764829
You posted false information and I posted facts about the game that directly disprove your post. What more do you want?

The game has many different payment models in many different regions. Yes in Korea and Japan it's F2P, but the pearl market is severely more P2W. In some regions it has a subscription model. The rest are buy to play. The game is $10.

>>385764868
It functions pretty well on consoles. It's so populated because it's the console MMO of choice.

ESO isn't really that bad though.

>>385765134
>Bad Skyrim
That's an oxymoron.

>>385765231

Why is every shitpost formatted like this with a space between the reply link and the text?

>>385765231
MMOs already died with WoW. They're only just now starting to reemerge.

>>385765425

I just personally think it looks better, it's more segmented based on sub-topics in the post.

>>385764829
Are you really that triggered about those 7 bucks it costs? You are acting like if they priced it at 59.99.

>>385764868
Played it for a few weeks since it was only $10.
>500+ hours of voiced dialogie singleplayer content for $10
>Huge RvR zone for world PvP
>Heavily customizable builds which makes PvP meta constantly changing and fun

It plays pretty fun. I only stopped playing because my friend did.

>>385765334
>false information
>still goes on about having to pay for armor sets
>then says the game is only 10 dollars
>leaves out that 10 dollars buys you the crippled version of the game and that its another 50 just to unlock your inventory
OK marketing-kun

>>385760921
>Build games for 1000 people instead of 10000.
This. A friend of mine was telling me his idea where it would be an MMO but for a small amount of people, maybe 50ish. It would play more like a large game of DnD. Because there'd be a small population, their interactions could actually be meaningful and the developers could interact with the players through GMs and guide development with the story the players were telling. The only real problem would be trying to make content in real time with the players. It would basically have to be limited to more or less MUD tier graphics and gameplay if it was even going to be economical. I told him he'd be better off just hosting a large DnD game.

>>385765423
No, it's a tautology.

>>385765557
I prefer this method myself.

>>385765557

This looks super chunky in multireplies.

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>>385763763
>I will never wake up at 7 in the morning excited to play an MMO like vanilla WoW ever AGAIN

>>385765582
>they priced it at 59.99.
It actually is if you want to use your inventory, not mentioning other essentials like increasing your weight limit or pets
BDO went maximum jew, sorry you fell for it if you are a real person and not marketer

>>385759946
Nah I think you're full of shit. Vanilla and TBC worked out. They still do on private servers. Every guild with enough 60s or 70s in it saw the raid content. Only a small amount of raids killed the final boss, true. But that's the point of a final boss. Defeating him needs to be special, otherwise the entire dungeon would be moot. But by no means was it too difficult to experience the entire game. The problem is that the average kid doesn't have the patience for this type of gameplay.

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>>385765792
>No, it's a tautology.

>>385765707
Yes, false information. You said:
>you have to pay extra money in bdo to actually have the look of your armor change,
Which is objectively wrong.

>still goes on about having to pay for armor sets
If you want to have one of the armor sets on the pearl shop, you can pay for them or get them in-game on the marketplace without spending a dime of real money.

>then says the game is only 10 dollars
Yep

>leaves out that 10 dollars buys you the crippled version of the game and that its another 50 just to unlock your inventory
There are no "other versions." There are different bundles you can buy, but they all include the same game.

If you decide you like the game and want to do end-game content, you are going to need to spend money on the game to do anything efficiently. That said, you're not going to spend anymore doing this than you are paying subscription for any other MMO.

I fondly remember my times with Lineage 2 like 12 years ago

Things got too complicated nowadays, and both companies and playerbases demand even more and more, to the point everything is burnt out (at least in my perspective)

>>385763408
several of the things you listed weren't added until much later expansions and other ones were good changes and part of the reason why wow overtook everquest. every aspect of everquest rewarded poopsock bullshit and i'm glad "real mmos" are never coming back because they'll suck the life out of you way harder than any of the shit that's out now.

>>385765864
Not the person you're replying to, but let's say you're correct (you're not). Let's compare that to any other MMO.

Let's use WoW as our example as it's the most popular MMO on the market.

A year in MMOs:
BDO: $59.99 (It's not, it's $9.99)
That's it.

WoW: $59.99
Sub fee: $179.88
Expac: $59.99
Total: 299.86

>>385766296
What about all the cosmetics for your waifu screenshots because it's a boring Korean grindfest?

>>385766419
What about them? WoW has the exact same thing. So that cancels that out. Anything else you want to add?

>>385766296
You can get WoW and Legion together for less than $50. Sub fee still costs a lot though. But $15 a month isn't bad if you really enjoy playing the game.

ESO has the best payment model.

>>385766085
I'm not the guy you're arguing with, but don't you have a problem with that kind of sneaky pricing?

Here buy the game for cheap, but if you want to have fun with all the things you're looking forward to, be prepared to spend money on things that are usually considered to be standard or given for free in other games. That really rubs me the wrong way. Just come out and say "$10 to buy and try, extra fees added if you want to do the rest". I don't know. I guess I actually appreciate when devs set a price and that's the price, none of this stupid make oodles of extra money because people have poor self control and more money than sense (of which they don't have much of to begin with).

Capitalism and making money is what drives our economy and how we get cool new things, I know. But I have problems with the way game companies try to cajole and trick people into buying shit instead of plainly offering something they might want.

>>385765864
You can just put the equivalent for what you would pay in other MMOs for subscriptions and unlock all that, where's the issue?

Weigth isn't an issue until you reached 50+ and start grinding for extended amounts of time, I never hit the limit before that.
I also looted by hand for the same amount of time as I've been doing Black Spirit story quests until then and those usually task you to just kill a handful of mobs where it's not a big deal.

I'm not saying they didn't went jew, but it's hardly maximum jew.

>>385766789
>but don't you have a problem with that kind of sneaky pricing?
I probably would if I hadn't known going in or I didn't already pay subscription usually, but I did.

To be clear though. 85% of the people who buy the game at $10 will never get far enough where they'll need to buy anything off the pearl shop anyway.

>>385766789
>>385766971
Just to be clear, I do agree 100%. I always prefer a subscription based model.

>>385765150
Holy shit
Goldfarmers were that desperate?

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Personally I think this comic sums it up pretty well, the playerbase changed. We're far more systematic in how we approach the games now, with far more interest in beating the game than playing it. A lot of the fun that people remember is because even "good" players didn't have a shade of an idea of what they were doing compared to now. Now that hardly anyone is new to the genre and everyone has a much better idea of how they "should" be playing, it's made the genre fundamentally different in what people want and what they'll put up with. WoW was largely the "your first MMO is magical" experience on a massive collective scale, and I don't think that feeling is ever going to be recaptured by the genre. Most of the people that want to play an MMO can just slowly trickle into one now and learn how to do things "properly", so those collective everyone's a dumbass and it's great experiences just aren't possible anymore.

>>385766789
It would be a problem if the spending would never end, but the cash shop has a lot of useless stuff on it. The only thing that's noticable early is the lack of pets, but most of the "must have" purchases are endgame ones.

Let's say you play the game for 4 years, is speding 300 bucks really such a big deal? I found CCGs like Hearthstone and Shadowverse much more "sneakily priced" in that regard, with people regularly blowing 100 bucks at each of the frequent expansions.

>>385767319
RMT is/was a huge fucking industry.

Know Steven Bannon, the White House's Chief Strategist? He used to be CEO of a fucking huge set of the gold sellers. (IGE, you've probably heard of the parent company)

https://www.destructoid.com/trump-s-chief-strategist-used-to-run-a-world-of-warcraft-gold-farm-418052.phtml

They'll stop at nothing.

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>>385767319
You have absolutely no fucking idea. Blizzard could never ban them fast enough and even now still can't. You could log into WoW right now on their free trial thing, make a human or an orc (they're the races with the closest walk to their faction capital and among the most numerous races of their factions) and you will still see about a hundred+ new characters in the starting zones with absolute gibberish for names made by the Chinese to spam gold ads either right there in the starting zones or to take a quick walk to SW/Org to do it there. Back in the WOTLK days they found out some way to glitch the game and get themselves floating in the air, and they used the corpse message tactic posted earlier to have literal floating ads in the sky over the cities. It was pure insanity. You'd get spam whispers from these bastards about every five minutes with links to their gold websites. I have the words "susan express" permanently burned into my fucking brain.

>>385767440
Datamining and overly large betas has ruined most MMOs in this way.

I think it's still possible to reach the top image of MMOs, but it's definitely not going to be through WoW clones.

>>385766532
WoW has content. Checkmate sandcucks.

>>385767847
Honestly, that's another thing killing MMO for me, RMT stuff liek this.

Is the only way to make new mmo without RMT and datamining is to makke them on console or like in SAO literally have their own hardware?

Fuckk the human race man

>>385767847
>I have the words "susan express" permanently burned into my fucking brain.
This is the name of a transexual escort service here in Portland. O-Or so I've heard.

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>>385767440
FTFY

MMOs didn't change. There have always been resources for games, elitists, etc.

>>385768160
BDO doesn't have RMT.

>>385761653
agreed actually.
also.. Guild Wars 2 in VR is actually fucking awesome but combat is a bit grueling

>>385768160
Seconding this >>385768473
They really put in some thought into their economy to bar RMT from happening. Also price manipulation on the AH doesn't exist. Some smaller servers where real cancer with people buying everything up and having any kind of resource at horrendous prices.

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>>385759623
Im hoping pic related does. I know it wont reach peak wow numbers, not with all the mmos out now
but even with a decently sized community i think it could be pretty strong.

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>>385768860
>remove player to player trading
>really put in some thought
Removing a feature isn't a solution.

>>385768936
This and Ashes of Creations I'm interested in.

Crowfall looks like shit and Camelot Unchained has been in development for like 5 years and looks like there has been no progress.

>>385769147
>Removing a feature isn't a solution.
It worked, so I'd say it's a solution. They didn't remove currency. You can still buy things off the marketplace which is entirely made up of user found/created items.

>>385769147
You can still trade between two player using the guild marketplace.

>>385768376

That's true within games, but the problem I'm talking about is more if you changed the second frame to look like your first main in FF14 (or nearly any other mmo). It also took a couple years for the exhaustive knowledge bases to form in WoW, with most suggestions being "go here to level at this time, I think this is a pretty good area to farm money" type stuff instead of fully structured quest and video guides like we have now. That's why the Mankirks wife stuff became a thing, because there was hardly anything you could just look up and get an exact answer on at the time. Not that it matters much anymore since most MMO's have quest guides built into the design now.

>>385761020

this

>>385761020
>pre-2004 levels
FTFY

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>>385768234
How are they?

>>385768860
>no trading
>devs set all auction house prices and you can't even select who you want to buy from
>this is a good thing
Never change BDO shills

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>>385767605
What an informative and not biased at all article.

Should have linked the sourced article instead, it's longer and more in depth.

https://www.wired.com/2008/11/ff-ige/

>>385770914
I just posted the first link after googling didn't even read it.

>>385770692
>no trading
You can trade some consumables which is nice while farming.

>devs set all auction house prices
They set the absolute minimum and maximum, but they fluctuate based on player demand. So yes and no.

>you can't even select who you want to buy from
>this is a good thing
Obviously, otherwise you could put up a carrot for 2billion and RMT could buy it from you.

Would a Vindictus like combat system fit other MMOs? More action oriented combat with skills to use on top of it?

I'm still wondering if you could either do a roguelike MMORPG, or one with paid DM's.

Power gaming is in all RPG's, you make a system to run the game and people exploit it and then tell each other about. The only way to really change anything is to get rid of authoritative information. Like if you sued thotbot, or made everyone sign a waiver to not talk about the game on the internet so servers actually had information brokers.

>>385771491
See BDO

Things I liked about FFXI

"Partying" for exp/merits
The stories and cutscenes
Auction House and Crafts

What I didn't like

Spawns
Drop Rates
Drama
Waiting

>>385771491
To be clear I'm not saying Vindictus is that great, just asking if it's combat system could be adapted well to other games.

>>385769248
I forgot camelot even existed at least crowfall seems to be getting information out and progress moving along

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>Come back to wow after not playing for 8 months

>Everything is timegated
>Have to grind constanty for atleast 2 weeks to even being able to raid
>Lose interest

This expansion is dogshit.

>>385760921
>Build games for 1000 people instead of 10000.
Build games for 1000 people instead of 1 person

Modern day MMOs are just railroad theme parks to the absolute extreme.
World of Warcraft could be boiled down into a Dungeon Crawler and an Arena game if you really wanted to do so.

Also
Games need to be driven by user content.
That can be spontaneous player driven events that aren't guided by the creators (no 'pvp event areas') or actual world affecting interactions (putting down forts in the world)
It's why EVE is still so strong. It's the only non-theme park MMO after WoW profit margins made every investor go completely retarded

>>385771429
Then it can't be said there's a thriving economy at all in the game since there's no market to play
Youre arguing that a pillow is more lively than a dog since it can't potentially bite you, IE you're a brazen shill for a game riddled with problems that doesnt look any better than modding skyrim

>>385771732
buy tokens and stay subbed good goy

>>385762353
>BDO

Yeah. It was actually pretty cool until:
>daily grinding hour
>dailies
>daily scroll
>economy simulator
>xp weekend!!
>dont forget to log in today for 2 minutes

So much potential wasted by implementing this absolute trash.

>>385771781
>a pillow is more lively than a dog since it can't potentially bite you
This could be the worst analogy of all time.

Also there's plenty of playing the market. Just recently there was a Black Stone event and they were down to ~170k each. I bought tens of thousands of these and now that the event is over, they're raising to their normal 330k price. So I doubled my money.

>>385772249
>daily grinding hour
>dailies
>daily scroll
>economy simulator
>xp weekend!!
>dont forget to log in today for 2 minutes

All of which is entirely optional!

Just relaunch original PSO.

>>385772645
Oh wow, one whole event but no ability to manipulate market prices yourself through things like undercutting or manipulation of stock through buying out your competitors since the devs set the price range and theres no choice in who you buy from
Why would anyone defend such a shit game this hard

>>385772731
>miss out on extremely good bonuses by not logging in every day
>be penalized for not conforming to the schedule by which xp is gained over twice as fast

...but its optional, amirite?

Also forgot to note that there isn't much to do but grind out levels for non-existent endgame content outside of PvP.

BDO was fun while it lasted, but thats exactly it. It isn't designed to last. The game doesn't even at least have decent lore on its side to keep it interesting.

>>385771773
EVE is more like a litter box than a sand box. Sure, there's shit in it, and you can do whatever you want, but it's not exactly fun or exciting, and boy does it stink.

Also, games don't "need" anything. If they "need"ed to be driven by user content then EQ/WoW wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful.

>>385773238
>like undercutting
You can undercut.

>buying out your competitors
You can also do this by buying materials at higher prices if your level in profession supports it. IE a extremely high level trader can force the markets to a higher price since he can afford it and therefore has more quantity forcing out the lower level traders.

But I mean, feel free to continue being ignorant.

>miss out on extremely good bonuses by not logging in every day
You make it seem so great, why are you complaining?

>be penalized for not conforming to the schedule by which xp is gained over twice as fast
You mean the 1-hour daily EXP buff? You can activate that whenever you want.

>>385773302
>non-existent endgame content outside of PvP.
PvP IS the endgame content.

You should not play BDO if you want to PvE.

>>385759623
Stop making WoW killers
No one wants a shittier copy of WoW.

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Press F to pay your respects to this game. Died as soon as it came out of obt well done EME lmao.

>>385761989

There's no hard content in the game so it really doesn't matter what you pick.

>>385759623
The solution is to embrace the faults of the MMO genre. wikis, botting and player fixation on the quantity of "content" have divested the mmo of its best aspects: camaraderie, and the feeling of being a small but meaningful part of a larger world. What if, rather than trying to give all players the intangible and ephemeral feeling of immersion, these games were built in a way such that breaking the game was the most fun part?

My solution is the following: a generic fantasy MMORPG where botting is not only allowed, but the entire point of the game. the game no longer rewards hard work (i.e. grinding for 1's and 0's) but creative problem solving. the game would challenge players to find what in other games might be considered exploits. Players could test who has the best code through pvp tournaments, or by racing to kill high level npc's. Players could cooperate by sharing code, or by designing cooperative characters. The possibilities are endless, and since players have no expectation of "epic" (blizzard-activision tm) "content," quality challenges for players could be mass produced (cf. Zachtronics, project Euler) with existing art assets; creativity would be the only limitation.

>>385774134
This. But also make data mining illegal somehow, or at least illegal to publish it so websites like wowhead cannot exist anymore

>>385774985
what's so bad about wowhead?

>>385775071
It's too good, so good that it removes what made MMOs interesting (exploring, learning to use your character by yourself, etc)

>>385774058
>PvP IS the endgame content.

There-in lays the problem.

It doesn't matter if its shitty PvE content. At least it would be something else to do. I love the PvP. Its the primary reason I played it back when it came out.

The timed xp boosts out the ass is only part of what ruined it for me. Its entirely unnecessary and disrupts the flow of the leveling experience.

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Favorite Zone?

>>385774789
It's a fun idea, but you'd have to have a team of MENSA elites making the "content" for the game. You'd also run into resource issues creating new content from scrap all the time, as well as managing certain allowed exploits while monitoring and patching out unwanted ones. It's possible but expensive and risky as fuck. The traditional MMO formula has nearly been perfected to a science when it comes to how much content you can patch at regular intervals before your dev team burns out or the majority of players get frustrated.

Also, sad to say, a lot of MMO players live for the grind. They grind different amounts and at different rates but in the end they will either unsub once there's no new shit to do or they will stick around and do the same repetitive tasks over and over again. I am one of those since it relaxes me, but I think I'm an odd example and not representative of the whole.

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>>385769248
>>385768936
>TFW this is the first mmo that actually makes me want to heal

https://pantheonmmo.com/classes/cleric/

>>385775167
Blizzard pretty much made wowhead superfluous by causalising it to hell and back.

Focus less on balancing an abitrary metagame and focus on multiplayer fun and immersion.

MMORPGs have their roots in tabletop RPGs like D&D and such, we need to bring back dungeon crawling proper, and the only way to do that is to make the dungeon crawling more dynamic and brutal and less metagame

>>385775794

>DDO
>Had an actual fucking narrator as you were rucking around in dungeons.
>[spoilers]Still hear "Brazilian Spider Webs"
to this day.[/spoilers]

>>385775980
Man fuck Jacoby Drexelhand

>>385775794
I wouldn't mind seeing D&D-esque instances where you go in for the long haul in a dungeon, facing real danger and meaningful choices at points. But it would be forever relegated to niche content since not being able to blow through it means it's not worth the time investment. And if you put really nice rewards behind it there will be a lot of bitching about how that epic mount or sweet amour is locked behind content that no one wants to do.

MMOs are for people who want to watch numbers go up and chat with friends, not people who want to go on epic adventures. You'll have to go back to actual D&D for that.

>>385775612
True, but I also quoted this post agreeing with it >>385774134 I used wowhead as an example of a website that trivializes the game

MOBAs need to die before anything new can come into play. Things are on track but its going at a slow pace.

>>385774058
Isn't pvp ruled by 2 classes due to shitty balancing

>>385771732
>Have to grind constanty for atleast 2 weeks to even being able to raid
WHy are you lying?
I got free 7 days, leveled demon hunter and fucking got my artifact on the 40 in four days
If I bothered I could finish normal tomb and be prepared to the heroic on the second week already
They really did well with catch up mechanics despite how grindy legion was at launch

>>385776283
Not at all.

There are 100% absolutely classes that are better than others in different situations.

In Node Wars (huge GvG PvP 50v50 100v100) Witches, Wizards and Dark Knights are THE best due to their excellent AOE damage. Warrior, Valk and some others are great as well for other reasons. That said, all the classes have a role.

In 1v1 on the otherhand, most of the assassin type classes excel. Anything with a lot of burst & cc will do very well.

Then there's skirmish size (3v3, 5v5, etc) as well where I believe classes are the the most balanced. Though, you don't see much of that size PvP out in the world unless two guilds start ganking each other and invite their friends.

>>385775470
regarding MENSA elites, I don't think that's necessary. 1) there's a lot of room for optimization, as MMOs traditionally had a lot of moving parts and stats that interact with each other in weird and interesting ways, much like the real world 2) it's easy to make hard content for an MMO just by scaling HP, so one part of the competition would be an arms race 3) with adequate player creation tools, players could design their own content (this could be integrated through a dungeon-keeper feature).

i do not think the traditional mmo formula has been perfected at all, and I think the genre's steady decline over the last 5 years is proof of this.

>>385776656
>all the classes have a role.
Where have I heard that before
Thanks for confirming what I've heard

>>385759962
ZA WARUDO

How much do you have to grind before you can be relevant in gvg in bdo?

>>385776171
And its this mindset that will forever doom MMORPGs

>>385777308
100%
No one wants to go on adventures anymore.

Make FFXIV pay to play without sub(Like Guild Wars 2) and it's fixed.
Monthly subs hurt good mmos

>>385759623
>The next "WoW killer"
No one even uses that phrase anymore. That's how you know MMOs are dead.

>>385777602
Go home brazil

>>385777602
lol
B2p and f2p are same shit and no sane person will ever touch games with this models

>>385777602
And force Latin American IPs and China IPs into their own servers.

>>385763773
Osrs has something like 40-80k players online at any given time and rs3 about half that

Osrs has been growing every year since its release in 2013

>>385777740
what is wrong with b2p/f2p

>>385777757
The Chinese have their own version of the game, it's just way behind the JP/NA/EU version. I don't know how many of them try to play on other servers though, if they even can since the Chinese government cares a whole heck of a lot about what you're doing and whether or not it's a threat to your morals or society or some shit.

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I'd be satisfied if I could just get an active group to play GW1 with, honestly. And get rid of everything EotN added.

>>385776524
Catch up mechanics that started with badges really fucked up wow raiding progression, moreso in cata and forward

Haven't played since WoD launch so can't comment on legion

Black Desert is extremely hardcore and has no fast travel but /v/ still pretends it's bad.

>>385778039
Name one good mmorpgs that's ftp or btp

Hard mode: no guild wars 1

>>385778203
i can't name one good mmorpg period

mobile games are taking over

>>385778039
b2p/f2p - developers don't need to keep people playing, only milk them for their money like your usual mobile freemium game
p2p - developers need to provide content to keep people playing
>>385778080
>moreso in cata and forward
Hey, unlike in wotlk in cata there were reasons to visit old raids, in wotlk you forget about it after new one was released, even fucking cool ulduar healing legendary was worthless in the icc

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Play EVE

>>385759623
destroy wikis and keep forums dedicated to the game dead. That way everyone is forced to interact in game and ask around thus building a community. Keep world big and expansive, thus leading everyone to explore it. Do not give waypoints or ABC instructions. Have people read the quests and figure shit out themselves or rely on community. Internet killed MMO's. Limit internet to save the MMO

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>Not playing Return of Reckoning


WoW is still fun, but dont fall for the dungeon grind meme and have fun with the world.

>>385778264
I hate this so much. I hate the people who whale on them even more, teaching devs to trick people out of their money instead of creating good gaming experiences.

I feel like devs lost agency to marketing and megacorps once people found there was huge money to be made, if only those nerds would stop trying to do right by the player and just find ways to extract money from them instead.

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Take away the ability for humans to be dire lords, enchantors, shamans, and summoners and im almost sold

>>385778432
Eve is fucking shit and CCP does nothing but suck the dick of cancerous null alliances who never do anything that isn't agreed upon beforehand. The entire playerbase is infested with risk averse fags who are so obsessed with their killboard efficiency that they just through the most ridiculous hoops to prevent even the slightest chance of losing a ship, and they simply will not engage if there's a possibility they'll lose. It sucks all the fun out of the game, and CCP continues to support it in gameplay mechanics by giving babbymode shit like Jump Freighters and Capital bridging so there's no risk in transporting materials to Null.

There's a reason the game is going under and it's because CCP have continued to support cancerous playstyles, and it's a shame because EVE has the single best art department of any video game.

>>385762194
This

>>385778668
> Internet killed MMO's.
That's the kind of shit a fat lard for whom MMOs are the only means of social interaction would come up with
LMAOing at your life

>>385778342
You couldn't jump straight into icc and clear it, you had to grind totc/togc/badge gear first.

Even with the 30% buff at the end of the expansion people had trouble with icc, meanwhile everyone and their mom cleared dragon soul

>>385759623
>How do we save MMOs, /v/?
You don't.

They were the flavor of the decade. People played them because they wanted some sort of group multiplayer game, one where a bunch of people could get together and play a game alongside other people. Remember that the only other big multiplayer titles like that at the time were the Doom/Quake LAN parties and MUDs, neither of which were terribly casual-friendly. By contrast, almost anyone could put together a WoW character and at least not die immediately upon playing.

That was back in the early 2000s, though. Since then, we've seen TF2. We've seen MOBAs. Well, we've even seen mobile games trying at the "cooperative" friendlisting attempts. If people want to get together with a group and play a video game on the weekends, they have their choice of Rocket League, to League of Legends, to everything in between. They don't need to devote endless hours of grinding for gear and EXP and whatever else to power up their character. They can start full powered or the "leveling" is part of the game.

And most importantly, they don't need to spend $15 a month for the privilege of doing so.

The golden days of MMOs are over. The mass public has moved on to other sources of online entertainment. You'll need to downsize your expectations considerably in order to get a MMO which actually works. Plus, if you really do want to attempt the freemium business model, then you need to accept some considerably poor business decisions in order to cater towards the whale customers - and good luck trying to convince people to play when they need to pay money to access the game first.

>>385779481
>Even with the 30% buff at the end of the expansion people had trouble with icc, meanwhile everyone and their mom cleared dragon soul
I really hope this is bait
Only 3 bosses in ICC required tactic, and they weren;t even gear serious checks in normal(compared to the heroic borderline 3 weeks gear farm bullshit)
Dragon Soul was nice enough to put pug killers across all raid
>You couldn't jump straight into icc and clear it, you had to grind totc/togc/badge gear first.
It came out with 3 dungeons with loot from normal being more than enough to clear icc normal
I know because this is exactly how I cleared it after returning to wow from the warhammer or conan(Don't remember which one already, but think warhammer because I dropped conan pretty fast)

>>385778859
Is that why they're nerfing moon goo hard?

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>>385759623
tl;dr You fix MMOs by promoting the genre's biggest advantage: unique player experiences.

The main appeal of video games is that you're in control, and while things like story or music can greatly influence the quality of a game, the fact that (You) are the one making things happen is what causes the dopamine rush or whatever. In most single player titles that rests with just gameplay mechanics but in multiplayer titles it's how those gameplay mechanics mix with the human variable. MMOs are supposed to be that mix taken to the extreme, and why the genre can often get away with outdated or simplified gameplay. I don't think the tech is there to bring, say, DMC combat to MMOs any time soon, so instead MMOs have to be designed in favor of player interaction and socializing. PvP and end game cooperative content are the traditional ways to do this but there needs to be more. Look at why people remember games such as old Runsecape, EVE, and old Star Wars Galaxies so fondly. It's because everyone has stories from those games and most of them involve interactions with other players or filling a role in the world that wasn't "the hero" or whatever the lame story was. MMOs should encourage meeting new friends, exploration, goofing off, and generally that sense of adventure and existing in a persistent world. RIght now, at least to me, MMOs feel like a cheap Hollywood set with no real substance to them. Anyway, this post is already way too long and I'm rambling, but let me list a few simple things I think MMOs in the future could do to improve things:

>no auction house
Players should have to meet in order to trade, so replace the traditional auction house with a in-game craigslist system or notice board .
>no LFG/cross server junk
Standing around for hours waiting for players sucks, but eliminating player interaction is even worse.
>move the wiki in-game
Instead of an external website, allow players to contribute to and moderate an in-game library or database.

ive always wanted to see a game with optional mmo content. like you can choose to play through a story by yourself and invite some friends and youre all the main heroes, but theres also some kind of wilderness/null sec/whatever area out there thats the sandbox mmo area

>>385779297
>His version of fun is running errands like a braindead cuck
LMAOing at your life

You can't save it because the average MMORPG player plays on a toaster from 2009 and 5Mbs internet. Dead genre, time to move on.

>>385780179
>MMOs feel like a cheap Hollywood set with no real substance to them
This. "Theme park MMO" is sadly very accurate. Most just try to keep the player active and busy with quests, ANY quests, regardless of how tedious or pointless they are. You are collecting ten wolf assholes, not because there in any great need for you to be collecting them, but because the developer realized that people needed to gain some gold/levels at this point and so the next NPC you ran into just happened to be asking you to grind wolf assholes until you are leveled for the next area.

>Instead of an external website, allow players to contribute to and moderate an in-game library or database.
This would be nice as well. There is absolutely zero reason for anyone to log into their guild/friendlist/whatever, precisely because any information about the MMO is scattered all over the place in-game but it is all in one location out of the game.

I'm not talking about lore here either, which would understandably be scattered about. The basics like damage calculators or build trees could be examined in the game itself, rather than relying on random fansites for that content.

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I have been playing vanilla for a year now and I'm having a ton of fun
I don't see why people look forward to the next game when you can just play an older version when it was fun

>>385763568
Albion Online

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>>385780759
Because people don't like losing their characters when their Russian shitbox of a server shuts down for the 12th time.

>>385780437
Phantasy Star Online, perhaps? You can play through the content solo, or invite people to clear the content on multiplayer. Or you could just join another player, and simply go into any of the content they have unlocked.

Phantasy Star Universe did something similar, from what I recall. However, you needed to unlock each area by clearing it with online first. And if you wanted to play it solo, you'd need to go through the Ethan storyline.

>>385780179
>nstead of an external website, allow players to contribute to and moderate an in-game library or database.
Make them guild exclusive and moderated by guilds.

>>385780935
you get to keep the friends that you made along the way anon
it's worth it

>>385759623
Runescape is still doing very well

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>>385781048
A bunch of Trannies and Mental cases - no thanks anon.
Besides most people are going to give up having their characters that they spent months on just wiped out, so you're most likely going to have to start fresh each time anyways.

>>385781023
>How do we give people access to wiki information in-game?
>Let's force every guild to reproduce the content and then prevent anyone from accessing it unless they have access to their guilds.
That sounds like a highly awkward and counterproductive decision.

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>>385763568

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>>385780912

>>385781159
Ain't it getting a mobile version that works with OldSchool and the main game?

>>385781292
>Give 10,000+ people access to change an in game wiki page
With guilds you could have varying information being relayed between people, and have accountability. At worse it would force people to join guilds, have them copy all the info, and then leave to spread their journals with other guilds

>>385781795
I'm not necessarily talking about a wiki.

Heck, you could simply unlock the information available to yourself once it becomes relevant. And by "relevant" I also mean giving information about what skills you could acquire do. If you go into the Warrior class, then you get information about what the Warrior skills do, something that you can freely look up. If you later go into the Mage class, possibly with another character, then you get the Mage information as well.

You don't need a wiki when we're talking about information directly from the developers. The most difficult part will be how to parse the information and how to present it in such a way that it is easy and simple to access, without implying that it is required reading before you start playing.

>>385781795
Just have people's personal journals fill up as they do things (and stream it all from the server so it doesn't get dumped on the internet on day 1) and see things.

>>385765907
Then you restrict the rewards and content to a small amount of the userbase. That's fine if you want to make a game so 100 or so people can feel special over the 1000 others who just farm in feralas all day one day hoping to be an e-celeb like everyone in raid guilds.
I think GW2 is on the right course, they made so many bad decisions at so many points during the releases and management of the game it's difficult to sell people on it, but I think their progress will be something the industry adopts.
Flex-raiding, flex progression, i.e allowing you to raid progressively hard content up to a max level of gear and everyone can do it at every level. They did that mostly with pvp too, with a small level cap.
There's no one fix for mmo's because what you're trying to do is keep people playing in a persistent environment, yet generating content is always difficult because if you make the content restricted to a few then you've alienated everyone who doesn't do that content.
Which is why I think in the future they'll spread out content much more. Instead of spending all the resources on the next big raid, you add more detail to the overworld, scaled progressive rewards, phasing that allows PvP over zones while also not fucking with the soloplayers who just want to grind mobs.
All the ideas are there, there isn't an MMO that has been able to pull it all together yet and offer the freedom and mysteries of older MMOs and combine that with the size and convenience of newer MMOs.
I think we'll see more themepark elements added before anything else, like minigame lobbies, kind like of "fantasy life" additions like they did in WoW with the pokemons.
There are players who want that feeling of single player and older games, but I don't think companies are willing to take the risks like GW2 did to build the game mechanics to make something new.

Anyone else hear Mark Liven shilling for Blizzard today on his radio show?

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This Kills any interest i have in any RPG in general.

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OK FAGGOTS

Crowfall
Pantheon
Camelot unchained
Ashes of creation

Which one you lokking forward too why or why not?

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>>385784045
Which one has the anthro option. No, I'm not talking about humans with cat ears, I'm talking about actual animal people.

>>385784045
>crowfall
garbage son

>pantheon
haven't seen yet will look up

>camelot unchained
sounds like runescape levels of aweful or some other 30 year old game made "HD"

>ashes of creation
we all know that will be a huge disappointment, you can feel it in your /v/soul

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>Level requirement to equip items

>>385784454
I think you can be a centaur in crowfall

>>385784045
I'm sure I'll play all of them. Camelot is the one I want to love the best though.

>>385784045
well camelot unchained is supposed to be a modern version of dark age of camelot so thats probably why

>>385784879
>>385784564

>>385784045
https://pantheonmmo.com/

http://camelotunchained.com/v3/

https://www.crowfall.com/

https://www.ashesofcreation.com/

>>385784045
>Crowfall
Not at all.
It's not really an MMO as far as I'm concerned, and I find the art style revolting. Honestly any PvP focused game with RPG mechanics is low tier in my opinion. No real issues with it beyond what it is, I just find it insufferable. No ash to anyone who likes it, just not my jam.
>Pantheon
Skeptical hope.
Not super into how gay they are about copying EQ gameplay, but it has some potential regardless. Execution is everything here so we'll see.
>Camelot unchained
Nope.
First impression is Planetside 2 without guns if I'm even thinking of the right one. No interest, but I've done little research.
>Ashes of creation
VERY skeptical hope.
Pretty sure it's going to go the way of Star Citizen. If not it'll probably be pretty fucking amazing. My biggest cause for concern is their overuse, dare I say abuse, of the Unreal Marketplace for graphical and gameplay assets. The serious lack of coordination between animations and art styles is not cool at all and I'm very concerned about their use of combat systems designed for a single player game in an MMO. I have many doubts this will ever take off or succeed if it does.

>find the website of your old guild
>it's dead but you can still find your old posts
>all the memories come flooding back
This genre sucks dick but why do I love it so much?

I think another issue is the people who grew up playing mmos are starting to get older, and so they have less and less time to dedicate to an mmo. And the younger generations don't really care about mmos. MMOs are games that you have to spend alot of time playing. They aren't something that you play for a couple of weeks, complete it, and then not really touch ever again. And kids these days arent into that so much.

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>>385786680
I often remember those late nights I spent laughing, shouting, and playing with my friends. Now they're all gone. The games we played are gone. All that's left is this, thinking about when I had it all and didn't even know it while posting on a jaded video game hating forum. They all probably moved on. Maybe they even think the time we spent together was dumb, that they could have been doing something better like getting laid or learning an instrument. It doesn't matter. It's all gone. I just hope I'll be gone soon too.

>>385776965
>Where have I heard that before
I don't know every PvP MMO ever?

If classes don't have roles in PvP all you're doing it smashing grey blobs against on another. There's no strategy and it just turns into a zerg.

What was the point of even asking if you weren't going to accept the answer? Did you even read what I posted?

We need more ESO/GW2 and less WoW/FFXIV.

Having gear progression be horizontal is more fun than having it be vertical.

>>385787576
Horizontal gear is the same as no gear progression.

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>>385787576
>We need more GW2
Fuck. Their gear are either crap (exotic) or timegated (final tier/celestial)

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Has any MMO ever had rewarding, engaging, and fun stealth gameplay or is that just impossible?

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>players can explore wherever they want
>players can kill vital NPCs
>players can claim their own lands and have to defend them or kill other players for their lands as a form of PvP

I strongly believe craft survival games are going to save MMORPGs.

>>385787757
>>385787830
Having multiple sets available to you all at the same relative power level that allow for build definition is infinitely superior to having a tiered system where the next patch/expansion always invalidates everything you've done.

That was more my point but I'm more of an expert on ESO than GW2 and I thought it had the same type of gearing with sets.

The issue is balance and not overloading the loot pool with useless sets that serve zero purpose except to exist as filler.

>>385788117
DnL would be awesome if not for the tiny (relatively) server size.
Is it really saving MMOs if we lose an M along the way?

>>385788020
wtf do you want ai that reacts to ever leaf crunch, your character breathing and size?

Nigga the technology is not there for all that shit in an mmo where 1000 people are all doing the same shit 12 feet from you.

>>385788268
>tiny (relatively) server size

That's one of the main problems with craft survival mmo games.

People say they have a lot of potential but their bad servers put off the majority from playing.

>>385784045
Camelot and that's it. Crowfall should have paid attention to what happened to Mortal Online, Pantheon is as generic as it is possible to get, and Ashes of Creation should be retitled "He Will Not Divide Us" for the amount of trolling that game (art project) will suffer.

>>385788117
Maybe if one came out that didn't feel like an alpha version of a game while using default assets.

>>385788337
Uhhh, no? Just something a little less shitty than SNEAKING, STUNNING, STABBING, VANISHING being a few ability button presses (or macros if you're a shitter) on loop.

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MMOs will suffer as long as we need to work 80 hour weeks to make enough money to cover rent+food+internet

>>385759623
It needs to be taken back to its roots. Before everyone just went and copied the WoW model.

>>385788020
Precious few dedicated stealth singleplayer games have managed it, so probably not.

>>385788718
I play rogue classes in just about every mmo.

You're an idiot.

What do you even want

>>385786978
>I think another issue is the people who grew up playing mmos are starting to get older, and so they have less and less time to dedicate to an mmo.
To be honest, I think MMO make the best game for older players or players that are retired from gaming in general. Think about it: it require less reflex than your typical action games these days and they have something to show off.

>>385759623
The endgame gear grind is a silly way to spend your time.

>>385788928
I was sure there's nothing even close to the likes of Thief out there. I just want something less braindead than say WoW or ESO.

>>385788961
A way to remove every single

reddit

spacing

retard

from this world is high on the list.

>>385788020
Eve Online back when scan probes were black magic.

>skulk around
>invisible
>tracking people down
>setting up for your fleet to warp in on them at 0

Camelot Unchained talks about some similar things about their scout archetype in their design manifestos.

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I'm looking for a new MMO that is unique, playable, and populated.

I've been casually playing Gw2 and after trying PvP again, I'm pissed off at it. Looking for something new. Something that will grab my attention by presenting something that isn't a WoW clone.

What are /v/s choices? Albion? BDO? What?

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waifus lol

Why do you think korean MMORPGS are still strong as fuck?

>>385789493
If that was true, people wouldn't be playing WoW at all with how butt-ugly everything is. The only things making money would be those soulless Korean MMOs where everyone is a stripper, some furry midget, or a yaoi fangirl's dream.

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>>385763408
Sounds more liker hearsay but the lads that replied to you are right, Warcraft wasn't a shitshow until after TBC. You need to experience Vanilla for yourself if you haven't because nothing was completely soloable questing could often be hell and there was plenty of non-elite quests were impossible with out a group. Pic related is just one of many NPCs that would rape you.

>>385789493
Most Korean MMOs have cute girls. Most NEETlord MMO players have penises. You figure out the rest.

>>385789614
There are a shitload of WoW waifufags. Jaina, Chromie, literally who elf #6 gorillian, gobbos, player chracters with big titty mods installed, etc.
Check out /wowg/ if you doubt it.

>>385789380
Want pvp and decent questing and interesting builds? ESO, you can get the base game for 10 bucks, it's buy to play, no subscription.
Want pve or crafting, housing, etc. FF14

>>385764868
if you dont go in expecting skyrim online its pretty good
for an mmo

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I just want an MMO where someone is happy to see me log on.
I want to feel useful, needed, relied upon, cared about, or at least not worthless.

>>385789640
t. never played vanilla and is relying on memes

>>385789836
No fucking way am I going to /wowg/, and this probably comes down to personal preference, but WoW's art style repulses me. It's impossible for me to like the characters when I hate how they're depicted in-game. WoW has not aged very well.

>>385790098
get good. it'll happen

>>385790098
So you want a replacement for real life, you fuckin' loser.
iktf

>>385790098
play a healer

>>385790156
No.. I did, thank you very much. Even at level 8 I had trouble with the level 8 trogg cave in dun morogh, and the frostmane hold. There were plenty of times I got raped in Moonbrook.

>>385789281
Been typing like that since 05 faggot.

You just need a way for your argument to never come to light, since you don't even have one.

Reddit boogeyman

>>385789640
non elite quests were completely soloable, but you could get fucked by respawns
and of course it was better to have a party

>>385790337
>your argument
We're not arguing. You're just saying retarded things, typing them in a retarded way, and formatting like a retard. My preliminary diagnosis for your condition is retardation.
Only a true subhuman would start a sentence with
>wtf
and follow up with completely irrelevant conjecture.
TL;DR Even if you aren't from reddit, you have clearly always belonged there and should go to your true home right away.

>>385790652
tl;dr even with your tl;dr

>>385790256
At what game though?

>>385790305
Real life never even gave me a chance.

>>385790325
What game? I tried WoW and nobody really cared about me beyond some complaints about me being too slow to do something because they were out of range.

Remove NPCs and have every facet of the game ran by people. Need your armor repaired? Player blacksmith. Need food? Find a cook. Need healing? Doctors/healers. Etc etc etc. Anything that a player needs should be something that another player can provide.

Instanced content and raiding killed MMOs, specifically fantasy MMOs. Who wants to sit in a city and wait for instance queues to pop? The world that was crafted for the players is wasted. EVE online is a good example of everything happening in one persistent world and that was why it keeps its niche. If you could make a fantasy world where all the content is there, no instances, with world events and a consistently expanding "frontier" then you would be on to a winner. You would have to build in mechanics that prevent no-lifers from locking new players out of the game like EVE does though.

>>385790784
try ffxiv
there's a free trial up to level 35

>>385790821
Congratulations, almost nobody bought into the game because they were worried nobody would buy into the game and now the people playing can't do anything.

>>385790821
This desu. And make it where players HAVE to be specialized. You can't be both a master fucking chef and an amazing warrior both.

>>385790946
>free trial
>shows off the worst part of the game
>doesn't let you make friends or talk to other people
>automatically stops when the game stops sucking even the tiniest bit

What a great idea; SE is amazing!

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>>385790837
instances != queues
This is all uninstanced bosses get you.

>>385791064
>not being able to slay monsters and then fry up a delicious drake steak for the party
>>385790981
I thought EVE already did that to a degree

>>385790452
>Explore this cave (Frostmane hold? Level 10-12 mobs)
>(Level 10 quest)
>Make your way slowly in
>Everything either fucking aggroes or respawns on top of you

Thats what I was trying to get at.

>>385791170
EVE has NPCs. EVE used to have a lot more NPCs. There's a big difference between letting players perform a typically NPC fulfilled role and saying only players can.

>>385790837
>Who wants to sit in a city and wait for instance queues to pop?
so you'd rather sit and wait for bosses to respawn with a thousand other people waiting to tag the boss before your group
there's nothing wrong with instances

>>385791170
Im not saying you can't participate in combat, in my example. Just that you can't be a top tier chef and the best warrior at the same time. Ie working your skills towards being a chef takes away from how skilled your character would be at combat. So yeah you can make a tasty Drake steak, but maybe you will need to get a little help from someone else and share said steak.

>>385791289
Oh. Would it be feasible to have a mostly player driven world though? Have a major city or two, followed by smaller hubs while out in the wild/frontier and the larger part of the game world everything would have to be player created and managed. Make certain areas in the zones that are designated "habitable" that would let players create settlements and shops. Personal housing could be in instanced neighborhoods

>>385791170
>>385791354
If I might interject for a moment, you could just apply skill degredation so it is possible to master both, but difficult to do so and maintain it. One of the few good ideas out of Chronicles of Elyria.

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>Play Lord of the Rings Online
>Finish the first 2 zone
>Check played time
>50 Hours
>There's 2 more F2P zone and like 20+ more zones in the game

>>385759623
ascension-wow breathed new life into the game for me

imagine vanilla wow (with some wrath talent) and a classless system where you are not restricted to one classes abilities or talents

>>385790821
>>385791064
This is a really good idea on paper. The issue however is that you would have to somehow make the game engaging for everyone. From the people who want to do combat down to the guy who wants to run a shop. And that's pretty hard to do.

>>385791497
Kinda starting to get close to the idea behind those survival simulators like Ark here.

>>385791497
I'm afraid I don't have a crystal ball, I'm just calling it like I see it from my years of watching good games get literally shitposted to death. Your opinion here is as good as mine, but I like the sound of it. I agree with >>385791630 though, not that it's a bad thing. Seems like a good way to blend traditional MMOs with survival. Just incentivise living ON THE EDGE but make it just a little too risky to stay out there super long term unless you're a real bad dude.

>>385785626
ashes is gonna be shit, the game isnt even out and they're already shilling merch.

camelot and crowfall will hype train off the tracks because PvP focused games always fail.
Pantheon has hope - legit looks like old EQ with a mechanics and graphics overall

>>385780437
Dragon's Dogma online is kinda like that. The world outside the main city is instanced for you and your party only.

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>>385785626
>http://camelotunchained.com/v3/
I want to fuck that cat.

>>385792354
>an historian
I too enjoy when official promotional material is poorly presented.

On this topic, the Pantheon main page classes list and Race/Class grid don't match up. There's missing classes on the main page.

>>385778203
I enjoy Lord of the Rings Online, but I'm a roleplay fag

>>385792584
Hopefully of the non erotic kind.

>>385792647
He probably a footfag

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>>385792675
>footfags
>footfags fetishizing hobbit feeti

>>385792529
It's technically grammatically correct, if awkward to read. Important question though: are there race job restrictions, or can I be anything I want as a cat?

They have to move away from this endgame only cancer and make more content which stays relevant throughout the game. Make server communities matter again or move away completely from that system. Stop the focus on instanced content or make everything instanced.

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>>385792859
It looks like the class is based on faction.

>>385792647
Yes, of the non-erotic kind. It used to be the contrary, but I'm not a horny teen anymore.

>>385792859
I'd be surprised if there weren't racial class restrictions. Also there are faction class restrictions.

>>385792859
It was gramatically correct when 'istorian was proper pronunciation. I guess it is set in ye olde times though so it may be intentional.

>>385793093
>>385793139
Well that's irritating. I don't understand why games have a bazillion races and classes but don't let you play certain combinations. Save on labour (animation and gear creation) costs?

>ctrl + F 'Mabinogi'
>no results
Mabinogi is a perfect example of an MMO done right, at least, before Nexon ruined it.

>Not forced into shitty classes
>you can mix and match skills and weapons
>crafting is extremely important and is actually fun and difficult to do
>most, if not all armor/clothing is purely cosmetic because they all start out with the same stats
>you can upgrade your weapons and armor/clothes to suit your needs
>you can try to go solo, but the game will kick your ass so hard that you need to go back to the dungeon with a full 8 person party just to stand a chance at a dungeon
>shit ton of minigames and events that distract you from the grind
>combat requires you to have good timing and actually use your brain
>your level doesn't mean jack shit in the game and can be reset once a week

The industry needs to stop with these shitty wow clones and need to start making games like Mabinogi.

>>385793351
Eh you should see the faction's class and you might understand why only X faction use that class

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHIsjsYzaeQ
This is from 2014

>>385793363
Does Nexon ruin everything it touches? Every MMO of theirs I tried has felt like great ideas and execution hampered by micro-transaction hell. And if it starts to dip in profit then it's dropped like a sack of shit for the new hotness they're slapping their name on.

>>385793351
Faction identity is very important to a game like DAoC and that each faction has unique classes is a huge part of that.

Sure is more interesting than wow where the factions are basically identical.

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>>385784631
>No level or skill requirement to equip minigun

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>>385759623
Hot garbage that everyone fights over.

>>385793652
>Does Nexon ruin everything it touches?
Pretty much. Most of their games start out great, but quickly turn to shit as they start streamlining games, adding bullshit micro-transactions, constantly locking or cutting out entire portions of the game, and disregarding what the community wants.

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https://fracturedmmo.com/
https://fracturedmmo.com/feature-spotlight-1-three-races-three-gameplays/
So I assume this mmo is just a scam?

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>>385759623
>How do we save MMOs, /v/?
We make a holy-trinity, tab-target & hotbar MMO in the style of TESO and GW2. It's actually really simple.

>>385793652
Nexon is on par with EA and Ubisoft. If you play a game of theirs knowingly, it's your fault.

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>>385793093
I like that fur bulge the male has

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>>385791545

this

>>385794364
>wildstar

it still hurts

>>385784045
Lost Ark

>tfw started playing XIV a week ago
>almost done with ARR
>been doing roulettes and generally the same dungeons/raids/trials
>ilvl 120 gear
>getting bored by doing the same dungeons over and over again
>dont care about housing/crafting/gathering, only story and PvE
Will it still be like this once I reach HW and SB?