lets see what /v/ thinks about...

don't put it in

no one wants to hear what you have to say about politics

>>385748060
>What are ways you can make a social/political commentary in your game without coming off alienating?
You can't. People will always feel alienated if you make any sort of social/political commentary.

>>385748060
dont

>>385748060
one thing that would help is to talk about things that have actually affected our everyday lives for a long time that nobody else is talking about (inb4 jews) instead of the things that nobody shuts the fuck up about and, coincidentally, don't affect our lives much if at all.

the only other thing I can say is to make your commentary less topical. for example commentary about religion, tradition and blind faith leading to stagnation and suffering works if you are even-handed and sympathetic about it. it doesn't work if you take the easy way out and do the beaten-to-death parody of christian white middle america that's also probably racist and you're as smug as possible about it.

>>385748474
>>385748571
>"dont"

Just curious, how many hours of binding of isaac do you have?

>>385748769
Isaac barely has any plot other than "dude evil christian mom lmao" I play the game because it's fun.

>>385748060
You do want you want.
The audience have become nothing but thin skinned babies on both sides of the face.

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>>385748769
Wow, grasping at those straws really hard.
Next you're gonna say SMB is an allegory for Communism.
Let me guess, freshly turned 18?

>>385748769
You make the assumption that it plays any part as to why somebody plays the game, More than likely they play it because of the surreal aesthetic and fun gameplay.

>>385748060
You are either subtle as all hell, or you strictly don't. Anything you put in your game will say something about you as a developer, if you come off too strongly in your politics then that's what people will see it as.

It's the same thing with non political statement as well

>>385748769
Counter question, how many hours do you have in solitaire? How many in pinball? Mahjong? Memory?

>>385748060
>So Here's the question: What are ways you can make a social/political commentary in your game without coming off alienating?
Play Deus Ex. Depending on your choices you can either go full left or right wing, and both arguments your character gives are pretty solid. Tong is love, Tong is life.

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>>385748060
The political comentary is usually just an excuse to shit on another political view, so it always devolves into a Good vs Evil debate, fucking always, its "Nature good vs Technology bad" or "Comunism good vs Capitalism bad"

What im saying is that its never meant to be political commentary, its just a soap box

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>>385749868
>Implying

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>>385748769
Well yeah, Isaac barely has a plot but the social commentary on religion (focusing on catholics) is still there on the overall theme. It resonates with the player even though it's not the focus point. The huge focus is gameplay and mechanics. The religion part gives the game a theme and we can't ignore the fact that isaac's theme takes the catholic church and it's radical followers and brings it into a dark perspective; even if it's subtle.

>>385749170
I'm not saying that that's the reason people play the game because its not. as said above, Isaac strives on his gameplay and game mechanics. What I'm saying is that the comment is still there and it's a widely successful game.


So since we're talking about Isaac now, did Isaac find a good balance between being put on a soapbox and being restraint?

How will other game developers take what they did with isaac and implement it into their own game despite it being a totally different genre?

I fucked up
>>385750675
was for
>>385748927

>>385748060
>A developer holds the right to apply social or political commentary and embed it into their game however sees fit. Us as the consumers hold the right to decide if the price as well as content justifies purchasing the game. Our decision can be swayed by this social/political theme that masks over the game.
>Too much can mean that the game is too preachy. Shoving ideas down the throats of your consumers and you come off alienating.
yeah
>Too little, you lose structure in your story. It becomes bland and uninteresting, which can cause the consumer to not return to the product.
nah
>So Here's the question: What are ways you can make a social/political commentary in your game without coming off alienating?
fuck off

>>385750675
So yeah, just turned 18.

>>385748060
The developer can do whatever he or she wants. Depending on how it's executed I may like it, I may dislike it, or I won't mind it/it won't affect my opinion. I can still like a game even if I disagree with it politically just as how I can still dislike a game and agree with it politically. It's as simple as that.

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>>385750675
The theme isn't about the catholic church at all. Damn, you can sum up the entire plot in a fucking sentence and you even managed to fuck that up. Jesus christ, how can you fuck up this hard?

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>There are people in this thread that will argue there are no influences in a story based games.

There's a fine line between coming off preachy and a correct amount and it is determined only after the game has been released.

Do you think the left KNOWS they are annoying? No they don't they think what they are doing is amazing. A developer will determine what is a correct amount and it would be up to consumer if he was right or wrong.

LA Noire did it correct, and like you said so did Isaac. But games like "The depression game" are a shining example of a failure to dilute a message inside a game.

The only way I can see it working is if you show the consequences of the thing you do/don't believe in.

Bioshock (yes I know, shut the fuck up a minute) did that, and it was tolerable. It wasn't "THIS IS BAD BECAUSE WE SAY IT'S BAD", it was "This is our interpretation of this political mindset, and how it might play out badly".

The second you start actively preaching, you lose it.

like all good storytelling, if you've got a point to make, follow the golden rule. Show, don't tell.

>>385748060
>Too little, you lose structure in your story. It becomes bland and uninteresting

glad you started gaming in 2013 pal

>>385751204
>Theme isn't about the catholic church at all
>Mom wants to kill her son in the name of God
>Characters name is "Isaac"
>Taken from the bible
>The bible is a collect powerup in the game.
>Using the bible against mom instant-kills her


dude, common. I've might have fucked up by saying catholic church since the abraham/Isaac story is within the old testament but...come the fuck on the commentary is there.

>>385752075
Yeah you got me there pal, Hideo Kojima wasn't in any form preaching about the United States government in ANY of his Metal Gear Solid games.

Thanks for clearing that up.

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>>385752325
The theme is about child abuse, general religious extremism and insanity. How you even get Catholicism out of that is hilarious, given that the same stories appear in all religions. Are you trying to tell me Isaac only applies to Catholicism?
Basically you could apply the game to evangelism or one of their off-shoots as well. Like, even jehovas witness.
The games has about as much to do with the catholic church as you do with fucking women that you don't have to blow up beforehand.

Basically, you're a fucking imbecile that can't even grasp such a basic plot.

>>385752325
I guess Castlevania is about religion too because you can throw holy water at demons and Dracula

>>385752649
yeah wow really was so in your face and forced just like modern leftist productions wow you're a smart and discerning guy huh made me think

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>>385752873
I mean really, I could've let it fly if you had just said "religion is a theme". But actually saying something this retarded while trying to look smart was too delicious to not shit on.

>>385748060
Make something that's a little deeper than "fuck commies" or "fuck nazis" and doesn't really take sides.

>>385748769
Zero, because I hated being beaten over the head, and slippery controls are shit for casuals.

>>385752325
tic tac toe is about the catholic church because one player has to play as the jesus cross
also all playstation controllers are related to the catholic church

What a flimsy fucking argument.

>>385748060

By being a good fucking writer. The writers of the past were so good that these dipshits today don't even realize the stories they love were political commentary.

Being a good writer is all about hiding the skeleton of your story behind great characters and a gripping plot, not shoving an issue in your face and saying "Isn't this horrible?"

>>385752876
Vampires have a historically satanic significance.

Mothers don't.

BOI is garbage anyway.

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How many good games have a social/political commentary?

>>385748060
>Too much can mean that the game is too preachy. Shoving ideas down the throats of your consumers and you come off alienating.
Yes.

>Too little, you lose structure in your story. It becomes bland and uninteresting, which can cause the consumer to not return to the product.
Not at all. Games do not have to have any commentary in them to be interesting.

>So Here's the question: What are ways you can make a social/political commentary in your game without coming off alienating?

People primarily play games to have fun. They don't want to feel like developers are force feeding their sociopolitical views through their games. It's best to not fight with the player by showing characters debating politics/sociology on screen but instead leading by example and building your ideal world for people to explore.

The former makes the player feel like they are being told off. The latter if implemented correctly does not.

>>385753437
That doesn't mean the game is a take on religion just because it has vampires in it
Just like the binding of Isaac isn't a take on religion because your mom is a batshit insane christfag

>>385753441
someone really needs to do rule 34 of this reaction image

>>385752873
>"The theme is about child abuse"
>Still a social commentary on child abuse.

Guy, where we going with this? you just proved my point about social commentary in video games. It's not a thread about what Isaac's theme is, it's about where the fine line between putting your game on a soap and not and Isaac was a good example. Who gives a fuck what the theme is actually about. That's a subjective matter open for interpretation.

>>385753309
If you don't understand what the story of Issac was about, then you don't really have any authority on it. It's very obvious you have no clue about what it is you are talking. Isaac's life was about sacrifice, was the only one whose name was not changed, and never left Canaan. The game almost DIRECTLY REFERENCES all these things. This is because what's-his-gay-face was raised by fundamentalists, he understands the material.

>>385748060
>So Here's the question: What are ways you can make a social/political commentary in your game without coming off alienating?

Put a cyborg ninja and super natural elements into it and no one will even bother with the social commentary

>>385748060
If you want to regurgitate something said over and over again then don't bother. If you have something legitimately edgy to convey than grow some balls and do it, don't worry about alienating retards who you probably don't like to begin with.

>>385753441
Isaac
L.A. Noire
Grand theft Auto IV & V
Hitman
Hotline Miami
Max Payne 3

>>385753541
It is because it directly references scripture. Binding of Isaac is a refutation of the themes in the life of Isaac in the Old Testament. Y'all are ignorant motherfuckers, and need the read the bible, full stop.

In a few years, when someone "reinvents" the resurrection myth for dramatic effect, I half expect people to cite Mass Effect as the source, because you are uncultured swine.

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>>385753903
Edmund debunked that shit years ago, take your fanfic somewhere else, cletus.
>>385753796
I don't care about your freshmen-level "point", my friend. Feel free to quote my post where I argued against your OP. You just showed that you can't even grasp such a basic theme and only concentrate on fucking style instead of what is actually happening in the game.
Social commentary is all fine and good in my book, but it clearly is lost on people that can barely think farther ahead than they can fart, isn't it?

>So Here's the question: What are ways you can make a social/political commentary in your game without coming off alienating?
Stupid tumblr Jackfags at it again. Just don't put that shit in there, people want escapism

Can you have an argument about what a game is about? Then the amount of sociopolitical content is just enough.

Do the developers or any of the characters start overtly preaching their views to the player either in game or out of game? Then they should probably stop making games and off themselves.

Does the game avoid controversial topics entirely and focus on what games are meant to be about (fun)? Then they deserve a medal, because they are a dying breed and what the games industry needs more of.

>>385748060
The amount doesn't matter so long as the commentary is something that the hivemind agrees with.
/v/ will deny this but it's true.

>>385753031
>XDDDD I got him good XDDDD.

>>385753437
>Vampires have a historically satanic significance.
Even then I feel like that's a stretch for a social statement. Vampires were more of a theme and less on a message when Castlevania came out so I get where he comes from when he says that.

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>oh man, I'm going to blow them all out with my amazingly thought out point about social commentary
>they will never see it coming when I ask them about Isaac
>teeheehee
>>385754417
Don't slip on your tears on your way out, OP. Say hi to your prof from me, and tell him he's doing a bad job.

>>385754215
The princess bride uses resurrection as a dramatic device, but TOTALLY isn't about religion, right? WRONG! The central theme is faith. Faith in people, secular faith, but faith all the same. Edmund takes the themes intact from Isaac pf the bible, turned them around, and expects me to believe him when he says its not about religion, because it's his word against my own lying eyes, and calling people liars is MEAN. For the record, I don't even care. The bible is literature, not gospel, and so I have no dog in that fight.

I'll stick to facts, thank you.

>>385754706
Are you okay?

>>385754263
Well the point of a game is suppose to be fun. If a game isn't fun then that doesn't fall on the commentary that falls on the development. What I'm trying to pinpoint is the appeal in a game and does it get diluted by social/political comment that seems either over cumbersome or lost on the consumer.

Which one is better? far fetched or too far? Does it come down to the consumer? Does this question become subjective when it comes down to what the player likes? Maybe someone who likes arcade wouldn't want the same amount of pressure as someone who likes story-driven games.

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I want to have fun, not be reminded of real world problems. Yes, developers have every right to put societal commentary in their games. Likewise, I have the right to simply not purchase the game if I feel the message is being pushed aggressively. I didn't play Dragons Dogma because of any political commentary, I played it because it was fucking fun to play.

>>385754706
>The Princess Bride has religious themes
Maybe it's just because I haven't seen it in a while, but I remember very little talk of religion in that movie.

>>385755186
>I didn't play Dragons Dogma because of any political commentary, I played it because it was fucking fun to play.

This is interesting because now you bring the idea that you'll play a game with a stance on something but you don't care.

Would you care if the statement was dialed into the game's mechanic, even if it was fucking fun to play?

Take for example, Mr. President! a dumb $7 unity game where you have to throw yourself infront of a bullet for donald trump. Did you play it? Did you have fun?

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>>385748060
>What are ways you can make a social/political commentary in your game without coming off alienating?
By making an actually good game. If you have talented game designers and a good director with a strongly focused artistic vision then you can lay down the commentary as thick and heavy as you like. Pic related. Excellent, beautiful game in almost all levels. Excellent gameplay mechanics, excellent art direction, excellent sound and music and blunt, arguably hamfisted commentary on industrialisation, deforestation and corporate greed.

>wah don't put social commentary in my games
Is just backlash to shit game designers and journalists who value the commentary more than the quality of the product. Every game (with a narrative) has some social commentary to some degree whether intentional or not. What's important is making good, proper videogames, not using videogames as an outlet to push your ideologies.

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In my opinion, if it is not the central overarching theme of the story, and cannot be tied to gameplay in a good fashion or manner, don't.

If you make it half-ass, then it comes off as pandering and making easy blows on the expense of group B. If you make it the focus, but the gameplay doesn't support it (something like Bioshock Infinite where the format of FPS did not match what they were going for), then it comes off as obtrusive and obnoxious.

Social and political commentary can be fine. The problem is that in recent memory most of the examples amount to quips that amount to no actual thought or discussion other than the consumers (and most of the time non-consumers) rushing to the internet and bitching about it.

>>385757298
People here are pretentious retards They think high art is free of politics and they'll cite tacky trash to prove it. Everything has some form of attutude and politics are intrinsic to it and by extension art.

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>KEEP POLIDICKS OUTTA MUH VIDYER!
>Deus Ex
>Metal Gear
>any Yoko Taro game
>Fallout
>Tropico
>Final Fantasy
>Knights of the Old Republic 2
>Ace Attorney
>Bioshock
>Papers Please
>Oddworld
>Vanquish
>Bayonetta
>Grand Theft Auto

etc etc etc etc, all of that is just off the top of my head. Politics is fucking everywhere in games. You just don't like it when political views that don't fit YOUR particular worldview are depicted. If you claim to be against political themes period you're a liar or simply don't play many games.

>>385758270
>art
I think you meant to type reddit not 4chan

>>385758916
Basically this.

/v/ seems really hell-bent on insisting that all media isn't political.

/v/ is contrarian so it doesn't matter what side of the spectrum it comes from

Only show viewpoints that I personally agree with.

>>385758916
All those games are shit though

>>385758270
It's an understandable reaction though, not pretentious at all. The gaming community at large has been growing at what is probably an exponential rate. With swarms of new developers comes swarms of shitty developers, and their friends who become shitty journalists, and shitty twitch streamers. The rise of social media puts all of this in our faces all of the time. I can understand why people would perceive that SJW shit is taking over "their" games when really the proportion of shit games to good games is probably about the same, the shit games just get a little more attention than they used to.

>>385759087
Good job on not having any sort of argument

>>385753596
That reaction image already is the rule 34.

>>385750231
>Posting the edit because lol funny edgy stereotype 3dog

>>385759284
This. There are people in /v/ who will side with the vilest, most repulsive viewpoints extolled by the most braindead barbarians just so they can annoy someone. Yes, I am talking about Low Tier God.

>>385759763
That's the original.

>>385758916

>Deus Ex
All the deus ex games have actually been pretty balanced in how they portray things, giving characters views that show two sides to given issues. Consider the bartender in the original and his conversation with JC as a prime example of actually examining and issue and not just preaching. The games also give you options in your approach to missions, meaning that you can play JC, or Adam in such a way that reflects your OWN beliefs about the subject. Within limits of course.
>Metal Gear
Metal Gear as a series is so bizarre in both presentation and content that while it is without a doubt political, the approach to the subject (war, military industrial complex, profiteering etc) is unique and at times opaque enough that no answers posed are ever really definitive.
>any Yoko Taro game
Again, these games tackle high minded issues. It's less political and more philosophical.
>Fallout
Varied approach, allows the player to act according to their own motivations/beliefs (again, within limits)
>Tropico
See above
>Final Fantasy
Never played a FF game, but I know 7 does have a pretty ham fisted message about protecting the environment/planet and corporate greed.
>Knights of the Old Republic 2
RPG again, you can approach in a way that reflects your principles.
>Ace Attorney
Only played the first, but besides broad messages of 'not jumping to conclusions' or 'don't judge people by appearances' this is a weak selection.
>Bioshock
This is probably the best example, as Bioshock is a pretty unapologetic critique of Objectivism.
>Papers Please
Also a fine choice, the games message is pretty clear.
>Oddworld
Broadly environmentalist with a special crosshair for corporate greed and the meat industry. Yes it's political but it's broad enough and more importantly STRANGE enough that it can easily be overlooked.
>Vanquish
Lol
>Bayonetta
Lol
>Grand Theft Auto
Political in the same way as southpark, everybody gets bent over the barrel to take their pounding.

Make the gameplay good.

>>385759387
It's pretentious considering the pro-quality and anti-normie ethos of this site. Being able to discern obvious trash doesn't excuse you from glorifying mediocrity. Just look at any favorite book / film / video game thread here, it's embarrassing how entry-level and homogenized they are

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>>385758916
I think you might be confusing political comentary with social comentary, but leaving that aside you seem to have the idea that whenever comentary its made then its automaticaly done right, which is bullshit

>>385748060
>beating the game on a certain diffiulty or weapon give you a secret ending with a note form the developper saying: TRUMP DID NOTHING WRONG

>>385758916
>>Fallout

just because it has various factions for players to choose from doesnt mean it has political commentary

>>385758916
>>Knights of the Old Republic 2
what?

>>385760130
Pretty sure that Ace Attorney is social commentary on Japan's fucked court systems.

>>385761480

Not unreasonable. The characters even seem aware that shit is a complete farce. Something mentioned in Persona 5 about it, that the state prosecutors have a 99% guilty conviction rate. Make of that what you will, but AA was always pretty well divorced from reality, so much so as to make its commentary little more than a passing nod to any real issue.

>>385748769
Shoulda gone with Deus Ex or Nier senpai

>>385760130
>it's examined
>it's high-minded
>it's unique
So what you mean is, "it's alright when it's handled well"?

>>385762424
Not quite. What I'm saying is that it's alright to pose questions, and even have characters or events suggest answers. It's not a difference of quality really. For example, a political cartoon might be blunt and completely one sided in its portrayal of an issue or group (those fuckers, our shit) but that doesn't mean it's bad. It's doing exactly what it's meant to do. In that sense even the most in your face, preachy political cartoon is 'handled well.' Anyone knows of course that a videogame and a political cartoon are wildly different. One of the most important aspects of a videogame is interactivity. This is why people are naturally apprehensive about politics being a focus in a videogame. If the presentation of an idea as something sacrosanct, something beyond question is the developers prerogative they will naturally choose to LIMIT player choice, or at best simply not consider it. (because it's not like anyone would NOT agree with that pet theory right? Oh and if they did, why would I want their business anyway?) No matter how much the developers of Papers please might dislike bureaucracy or border policies, you the player are given the CHOICE to unflinchingly enact those policies and perform your tasks like you are nameless bureaucrat Jesus. Your reaction to the ending, the strange messages from the underground resistance movement, are all informed by your own beliefs (within limits of course). As is your diligence in your duties. If you're the kind of person whose principles might allow them to force suffering on their family to avoid being complicit in something you see as immoral, the game reflects it. The continued influence not simply of politics but of dogged adherence to ideology even in the face of lowering the quality of a game is the issue. It's really not as simple as 'all art is political' or 'politics are fine if they're handled well.' The issue is just people seeking more forms of soap boxes to preach from.

>>385763345
You just spent a lot of words agreeing that "politics is fine if it's handled well".

>>385763815

You're oversimplifying.

>>385763886
No, I'm abbreviating. I agree with everything you're saying, but that's also what I meant. The point is: politics is not inherently a bad thing in videogames. A certain political view espoused by a videogame is not inherently bad, even.

>>385764734

By a videogame? I'm not sure. By a character in a videogame? Totally. Doubly so if you get a chance to respond. Even something as simple as that one moment in bioshock infinite where a guy whose house you're tearing through points to a door and whispers 'don't worry, I'm a progressive too' and you can just shoot him full of so many bullets that you come into the next fight with no ammo. That's a choice. I understand that you agree, but I think that better than saying 'politics are fine if handled well,' what should be said is 'choice trumps ideology.' It's always more important to making a good videogame to give the player some form of agency in how they approach things than it is to set up a lecture. Obviously there are limits, but the more we move forward the more we will leave those limits behind. In that sense, this bizarre dogged adherence to a specific subset of the political spectrum that is steadily becoming more entrenched in the industry serves only to hold us back as devs begin to further handcuff players for fear they might not 'get it.'

>>385748060
No one wants any commentary of any sort
People want to play fun games, that's it

>>385748060
Make it removed enough from the real world by making it more relevant to the fantasy world of the game than anything else. Make each side have views that can be argued for, rather than calling a belief system evil.

I know its a meme but MGR did a good job with these imo.

>>385762424
I think what he means is
>it's okay if it's old enough
and
>it's okay when Japan does it
e.g. the de-facto /v/ argumentative stance