Is it really that bad to have to grind in an MMO?

Depends how much. Some grinding makes rewards taste better.

It's ideal to have like a few weeks of grinding, and then a few months of break so you don't burn out.
WoW Legion at launch was infinite AP grind, it was terrible design.

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>start playing Warframe
>game is pay2not-have-to-grind-forever
Really reminds you you're playing a f2p mmo

>>385743097
YES
YES IT IS
GRINDING IS AN EXCUSE TO USE WHEN YOUR GAME HAS NO FUCKING SUBSTANCE
YOU EVER JUST PLAY A VIDEO GAME WHERE ALL YOU DO IS GRIND AND IT FEELS LIKE YOU WANNA PULL YOUR BRAIN OUT AND STICK IT IN A JAR!?
THATS GRINDING

>>385743865
come on goy use your 75% off gold coupon we gave you

>>385743865
It's called pay to win. I'm sick of these F2P apologists trying to say games aren't pay to win because, hypothetically, someone who has spent no money on the game can beat someone who has spent money.

If you can buy things with real money that give a significant advantage, then it's pay to win.

>>385743097
i love it, its comfy. Any easy comfy grindy game?

I fondly remember grinding in RS back in the day. f2p fishing mostly.

Kinda makes me want to try it again but I heard f2p is shit so I don't know if I want to bother.

Is the grinding comfy in BDO or ESO?

I'd say it's necessary. You can't have an MMO without grind because your player base consumes content faster than you can make it.

>>385743097
No when grinding is something that happens to your character while you're chatting with your friends.

Yes when grinding is supposed to be actual content.

>>385743934
This.

Progression and grinding are part of the same family, but grinding is just an uncreative and lazy way to progress.

>>385744035
all mmos are "pay to win", you can easily buy an account with gear its the samething

"pay to win" is a meme brainlets spout when they dont know why they feel an mmo is "bad"

>>385744323
Define comfy
BDO is literal all grind no gameplay, it even wants you to alt tab and afk while iy grinds away.
The PVE is nonexistent and the PVP is whoever poopsocked the hardest will auto win thr fight

It's a necessary evil to make players value their progression, however I appreciate games that go out of their way to make themselves feel less grindy than average.

>>385744323
That was only comfy because you were chatting with friends while grinding.

>>385743097
If it pays off like in WoW where you can make enough money to not pay for subs/ buy other games then no its not bad to have a grind.

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>>385743097
Not if it doesn't feel like it.

In my experience old games got away with being grindier because there was a community involved, grinding was more of an excuse to electronically socialize while killing monsters. Now it's kind of a solo affair all the way down, and everyone's a jaded number crunching dataminer, so grinding is just a means to an end(game).

>>385744785
>>385744840
that's probably true. i would chat with people a lot. but i also just enjoyed leveling up and being able to produce that next "tier" of item, and then selling it to make more money than i could before.

i'm guessing all MMO's let you do that though right? and if that's the case then i don't know what i want.

>>385743097
>Is it really that bad to do tedious, repetitive tasks for enjoyment?
The autism generation, everyone.

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Why grind in vidya and not just get a job?
If you're gonna do boring menial tasks for hours then you might as well get paid for it.

>>385744164
http://158.69.243.49/

>>385743097
if the grinding is fun, then it's not bad, or if you get rewards worth it. if i'm grinding for a rare item for instance, and i get lots of xp/money/ other drops on the way then i don't mind.


grinding in an mmo is absolutely awful, but i don't like mmos so

>>385743865
>pay2not-have-to-grind-forever
you never have to grind. the problem is that it's the only thing to do.
it's pay-to-not-play-the-game

>>385744584
>pay to win is a meme

How so? It means that the game has some means that allows you to pay real money to either buy things that make your character more powerful or skip content/grind that would take time and effort to complete legitimately.

Don't tell me you fork over real cash to get ahead of others.

>>385745132
getting virtual money is more satisfying than real life money for roleplaying reasons. IRL i'll always be a fucking pathetic loser but in a game I can be a powerful rich warrior.

>>385743097
If grinding is in the form of xp, or money, then yes. It's awful and shouldn't exist. If grinding exists through the players own self-mutilation ala grinding resources for crafting then no. If the core element of your game is to grind for xp by repeating a task then it's awful. If the core element of your game is to gather rocks from a rock node to build a rock castle then that is fine. Grinding needs purpose, the monotony has to have a physical and tangible payoff.

>>385743097
yes, mmos should always reward the exact gear/item you want when you run through an instance so you only have to run that raid/instance once because its just "grinding the same bosses over and over again" you see how retarded that sounds?

Grinding is what MMORPGs fun. The casuals who can't stomach it have no place in this genre.

Diablo 3 has the best grind system.

>>385745590
Exactly. I understand if you don't want to commit time to grinding but it's satisfying as fuck to get better stats and gain access to better items and markets.

>>385745590
> you see how retarded that sounds?

MMO did this to keep your fucking subscription, retard.

>>385745386
This post is correct, 99% of Warframe's content is grind for the sake of grind.

>>385745447
Why don't you just roleplay IRL?
Make up a person you want to roleplay and start from there.
>character starts from the bottom at McDonald's flipping burgers
>studies hard
>becomes rich and succesful
When you get bored and stop playing, you'll at least have gained something from it.

>>385745437
I don't mind paying at least a typical full price for a game ($60) to skip the grindy bullshit only poor NEETs and autismos would dump hours into. I work full time and don't want to spend my time doing boring bullshit because I can afford it.

>>385743097
If you think about it, every game is grinding.
It's just we think some of it is busy work and some of it is fun.

>>385745132
because boring menial tasks are being taken over by machines who don't need to get paid

>>385745386
this

I like Warframe's system though, since capping out early and having to start with a new weapon saves it from a lot of the problems other MMOs have overextending into longer and longer endgames. If you like the core gameplay loop, then it doesn't feel much like grinding at all. I haven't touched it in years, so it's probably shit now, but I had fun with it.

>>385743097
what game is that in the OP? Makes me think of lotr online

>>385743097
Not when you also have to grind in real life :/

>>385743097
yes, grinding exists only to artificially extend playtime.

>>385745953
why even have the grindy bullshit?
Why not just have the game cost 60 bucks and be good from the start?

And lets not forget that some games are buy to play and then ask for more money to skip the grinding bullshit.

>>385746390
>why even have the grindy bullshit?
to get people to pay more money, why have a $60 game when you can have a $100 game with the same amount of work?

>>385743097
I like a good grind once in a while. Load up a podcast and just chill out for a few hours. But if your entire game is grinding those few hours will be the only hours I play of it

>>385746351
>tfw grinding out useless skill trees so I can get the few at the top I need
I don't need to spec into a foreign language to be an engineer. Stupid fucking devs.

>>385746531
I guess I made the wrong question. Why are you defending the grindy bullshit. Why not play games that are good from the start?

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Grinding is fine.

>>385746694
>Why are you defending the grindy bullshit.
i should clarify that i'm not the guy you were replying to in the first place, that was an actual quote from a ubishit employee or something close to that at least.

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My fucking friend won't stop playing Runescape 2007. The game is LITERALLY JUST A GRIND. That's all it fucking is. There is no skill to it's execution. Your only job is to sit there and do the same repetitive not fun tasks for hundreds of hours to get 99 in wood cutting or whatever. How the fuck?

Runescape and other MMOs literally can not be fun or skill based. This would be antithetical to it's design principles and reason to exist: To waste your fucking time.

At least if I am "grinding" out a combo in a fighting game (which takes 15 minutes), it's fun and I can use it to fuck other people instead of wiping the sweat from my brow after grinding wood cutting for 300 hours and say, "Wow. Look at that. I did something that a million other people fucking did. It required no skill. Only time dedicated. But I was able to do it despite it not requiring any fucking effort from me but time."

Kill me.

>>385746830
> ubishit employee or something close to that at least

Bobby Kotick, about the Guitar Hero stuff (game+guitar+shit)

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>>385746713
The real idle king incoming

>>385746928
>>385746830
>that was an actual quote
man they could at least pretend to not be money grubbing jews

>>385746849
it's probably just nostalgia. it'll pass.

>>385746928
>>385746973
kotick was ea, and i did find the original quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY5L95BOQTg
>we need these $60 customers to be $200 customers

>>385746849
I'm gonna do fuckin nothing but play OS RS when it comes out on mobile friendo game's pretty relaxing

>>385746973
The guy is a CEO, so making money is basically his job, he doesn't give a fuck about ethic

>>385746390
yes, just make a "good" game from the start, you naive fucking retard

a f2p mmo fulfills the major facet that makes an mmo an MMO; TONS OF PEOPLE

if you put a paywall behind playing the actual game you won't have any people playing your shitty game and when you have no people playing your game will fall apart within a month

>>385747083
Why are people upset by this? I don't get it. The guy is right. Probably rude for most people, but still right.

> We are a corporation
> People want more of our stuff
> We diversify our products
> They have the choice to buy it or not

>>385747261
>just make
looks like you're the retard. I asked why don't you BUY games that are good from the start.

I'm not asking why money grubbing jews are moneygrubbing. I asked why the orignal poster was supporting their moneygrubbiness.

>>385745817
I hope you're just pretending.

>>385747083
> What?! Ubisoft can die now!
> A few months passes
> OMG guys have you seen the new Farcry?!

>>385747368
Because they're either too weak willed and end up buying it anyways, or else they're buttfrustrated that they can't control the actions of others.

>>385747368
Because it's not more stuff, it's the same amount of stuff with a higher pricetag or cut into pieces and sold separately. Sure the DLC shit is technically optional but more often than not the base game is bare bones shit and you're expected to buy the DLC to get the rest of the game.
See Nu-Battlefront which even at the $100+ pricetag lots of people paid at launch it still didn't have as much content as the original Battlefront games.

>>385745223
>expecting me to click on that address

>>385745132
Because when I'm forced to do something I don't like it saps all my energy.
Yet when I'm doing something I love I can go for 15 hours straight, easily.

>>385743097
Grinding can be comfy if done right. FFXI's grind comes to mind. Me and my buds spent entire Saturdays grinding shit in valkurm dunes, LFP in Jeuno to get to the next area, and grinded beast tribe shit. It strangely never got boring.

I am currently enjoying grinding diablo 3's adventure mode.

>>385743097
I don't know. There are some games where I think it's kind of fun, like final fantasy 7, and really boring, like any of the hyperdimension neptunia games. I don't know why I enjoyed one over the other. I don't know. I don't know. Those HDN games are boring as shit, though.

>>385743934
I never thought it that way, but seeing your post, I agree.

Now I see most of JRPGs in a new light.

I sometimes enjoy grinding. Just have some podcast/stream in the background and grind away.

>>385743097
grinding + watching a stream or listening to a podcast can be a nice way to unwind after work

>>385746849
At least with runescape the grind is relatively effortless, allowing you to chill out and do other things, or chat with other players. Try having to actively grind in a Korean MMO, hitting 5 different spells in rotation over and over while nauseating special effects and horrible animations engulf your screen. I don't know how people do it.