>The only thing standing between you and being a successful

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Dwarf Fortress. You have no excuse.

>>385713052
>successful

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>>385713642
Oh so your only interest in developing a game is to make pennies; not to make a phenomenal game. Go fuck yourself.

You can learn to draw
You can learn to code
All you need is effort and dedication, something you probably never tried in your life
And even if you miss those things, remember notch made Minecraft
You have no excuses

>>385712337
Put in some work and money and make a demo or one functioning level with some artwork. Make a kickstarter and get more money to fund artists

>>385712337
I have the opposite problem, can draw but can't code to save my life

Feels bad man

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>>385712337
Also thousands of hours of work but you wouldn't know anything about that, would you, mister 'I haven't worked a single minute of my life and just because I'm a loser who plays vidya 16 hrs a day I think it makes me qualified to be a gamedev'

>>385714635
I am sure there is some meeting place for people

There are so many artist and coders who all want to create stuff. I guess Minecraft made everyone wanna be Notch and one-man army stuff. Teamwork is really underrated nowadays.

>>385714635
You must be retarded then. Knowing art makes you already 1000 steps ahead of 99% of solo gamedevs. Why? Because any dumbass can learn to code in a few weeks but it takes years to be decent at art.

I'm genuinely interested in game development but I've always been lazy. I'm a CS student with basic knowledge in coding. Each time I get motivated to start learning, I download a game engine, watcg tutorials for a bit then stop altogether. What should I do? Where should I start?

>>385714930
It takes years to learn to code properly, otherwise at some point it's all going to fall apart. You can learn some japanese mango style in a couple of weeks and people will buy into it

On a scale of one to ten, how morally wrong would it be to ask for 500,000 dollars on KS to make a game, spend none of it on the game, but when I do eventually finish the game, it turns out pretty good?

>>385715171
if you deliver the product you said you would deliver, and people pay for it without being deceived, you're good to go

>>385712337
>The only thing standing between you and being a game dev is the money it cost to commission an artist
fixed

>>385715093
What if the game I want to make is super short and simple? As in, only slightly more complex than a walking simulator

Would that take years of effort learning to code too?

>>385713052
Only a few genres can work with ascii graphics. My favorite action games, if they were ascii I would never have played them for more than 2 minutes.

>>385715256
Wouldn't that be kind of a illegal though? Yeah sure, they got what they wanted in the end but none of the money was used on the project

>>385714635
Learn visual scripting if you have no intentions to learn code. You can do so much with UE4 blueprints. I can't vouch for the unity equivalent though, havnt used it.

>>385715636
Not even. Just use UE4 blueprints or something similar.

>>385712337
There's also a shit load of luck standing in the way. Even if you make the best game that has ever existed, you need to be lucky enough that a big streamer picks your game to play in order to give it exposure to a wide audience.

>>385715171
Depends on if you are gonna work full time(or at least half-time) on it or not. Pretty sure most of the kickstarter money goes towards paying "wages".

>>385715693
Do you work on the project? Do you need to eat to survive while working on the project? You spent money on the project.

Just don't say "I will spend all my money on voice actors" and then don't and it's more than fine. Thinking of kickstarter more as a patreon for a single project.

>>385714635
That shouldn't feel bad. You're in a really good position. You can supply your art to dozens of game devs, and you might get lucky enough to be a part of something that blows up and makes a ton of money.

>>385715636
If you want really to code, the most important lesson is that the answer to every technical problem is: it depends.
There is no standard approach, no universal solution, and no unique way to solve things. All we have are some guidelines.
No matter how big or small your project is, if it ranges from several thousands of code lines or up to some millions, you need to project everything before even starting to think about the language you'll be using. You need to design data structure, data interaction, functions. Look up for UML2.0 guides.
Then you need to code using some patterns, or you're going to loose yourself. Look up "design patterns". Even if you write 500 lines you're going to forget what it meant the next day, so you need to make the code as clear and efficient as possible, and this takes years to master.
If you think that coding a complex project is just shitting some instructions into an editor, it will never see the light, i read somwhere that 80% of failed projects fail because of bad habits during the development

>>385713642
Toady makes ~84k a year doing the thing he loves most
How is that not success

>>385715693
I doubt it, and even if so, nobody needs to know. Kickstarter is filled with scammers and low effort twats, if you deliver you're already better than half of the platform, and nobody will ever ask if you spent that money on a Shelby GT500 Eleanor, or to pay for github fees

>>385715693
People use Kickstarter money to live while they work full-time on their projects. That's what it's there for. If you make $300,000 on Kickstarter, you don't need to worry about working for a few years. It's not like every penny of that money goes directly to the project itself. Let's say you're making a game, that money might be used to buy a new PC so you can work more efficiently, or software you need for asset generation, but then it will also be used to feed yourself, pay your rent, and your usual living expenses, plus whatever else you want to do with it. This idea really bothers some autists here for some reason, but look at it this way: when you get your paycheck from work, you don't then go and spend it all at your place of employment, right? No, you use it to survive, and if you're lucky enough to have a job that affords it, live a normal life and take trips and buy cool shit. Same thing with Kickstarter money. That money is like your salary for the project, and you do with it as you see fit.

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I am an artist who works in games professionally. I'm shit at programming logic, so even with visual scripting like Blueprints in UE4 things take forever to make for me.
I would like to find a programmer to do shit for my personal projects, but who the hell would want to work for free while complying with my requests and having no schedule whatsoever due to me having a full-time job?

>>385714930
Believe it or not, artists are shit at logic. Spending years getting good at drawing literally fucks with your brain so that your creative, visual side is always active and it hurts your ability to use your logical side

Even basic programming exercises can be difficult to grasp

>it's a "/v/ thinks they can be a game dev because they spend all their time playing games" episode

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>graduate from art-academy (cum laude, top of the class)
>want to start working as a free-lancer for small game developers because I love the immersive feeling video games have
>get lot's of contacts, messages and most importantly '' job-offer''
>they all don't want to pay any reasonable ammount of money
>with the amount of hours I would have to invest I wouldn't even come close to minimum
>tell them that I might as well work 5 hours a week at my local supermarket..
>but think about your portfolio, if you have the next indi hit in it
>I think it would be an amazing chance for you to get more exposure
>tell them polite to fuck of and get sick of this bullshit after a couple of months
>fuck it
>start working as a product designer
>make mad money and I even have weekends off to play vidya again

Never looked back

>>385712337

Literally never commission an artist, especially an amateur one. Either hire them and pay them a wage or just avoid them.

Commissioned artists demand absurd payments for their work. Like they expect to be paid hundreds or thousands of dollars for a days work. They like to claim this is standard in the industry but if you work out how much they're being paid an hour and a yearly wage from this, it's much, much higher than a professional artists would earn.

Also most free lance artists are prissy fuckers who can't hold down a real job.

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>>385720356
>https://twitter.com/forexposure_txt

Life is Pain

>>385715093
wrog

>>385712337
If you truly believed that you would get a loan and pay it back once you get the success. The reason you don't do that is because deep inside you know your game wouldn't be good enough.

>>385717243
>tfw computer science student that enjoys art in free time

>>385713734
If people paid for Dwarf Fortress, you could easily hire for a couple extra hands to cut dev time by half. And if you cut dev time, it would also give you an opportunity to make more than one game in your lifetime.

This "doing it for passion" meme has to stop. Because even your goddamned passion needs money to exist in the first place.

>>385717243
Art takes a lot of time, and learning to program cuts that time to work on art in half, to the point that you can't be assed and decide to:

A)Make visual novels.
B)Make comics.
C)Hire a programmer.

And sure, with great effort you could do both, but again: art assets take a shotload of time to make, and programming cuts time from art, and so you'll have to resign to working in the same stupid project FOR YEARS.

>>385722237
This. If you don't have the balls to invest your own money or take on the risk of paying back the loan then you really don't believe in yourself, do you?

>>385720586
I've commissioned 5 or 6 artists and never had this problem. I've always gotten quality art too. You just have to weed out the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

>>385720356
What is a reasonable amount of money to you?

>>385720356
Glad you're okay now, anon, but I can't figure out how you needed to see this firsthand. Did you really thing indie devs were going to pay you what your work was worth?

>>385713642
Toady literally just does his autistic math maybe two days out of the week and he makes over eighty thousand dollars a year in just paypal donations.

>>385716901
>complying with my requests

If you mean that the game should be exactly what you say it should then that will definitely put people off.

You should be willing to compromise with other people on ideas for games.

>>385723393
>>385723249
This is an important question.

I am an artist trying to go pro. I already have plenty animation experience (actual animation, not cardboard cutouts) and I have no idea how much I'm worth.

What is the bare minimum?

>>385722494
>it would also give you an opportunity to make more than one game in your lifetime.
ToadyOne's made multiple games though. Corin, Kobold Quest, Squiggles, Liberal Crime Squad, and WWI Medic were all made by him around the time Dwarf Fort was made.

>>385722810
>cuts that time in half
Seriously? It takes maybe 30-40 minutes a day for about a month to learn to program. Doubled if you want to learn good habits, algorithm analysis, or any sort of debugging logic. That's fucking nothing.

>>385720586
You realize if you paid an artist hourly it would end up costing hundreds of dollars too, right?

>>385713734
You still need money to make a game, dumbass

>>385723704
Is there a place I can learn then?

>>385720586
>Hire them and pay them a wage
And insurance, which between the two would add up to far more than the "hundreds of dollars for a day's work"

>>385717243
You're actually fucking retarded, art is merely aesthetics-driven applied mathematics and logic. Do you honestly think painting or sculpture or music is just [feeling] and jerking off with a canvas until something pretty appears? Geometry, algebra, trigonometry all go into wet and dry mediums. How do you think artists calculate perspective and foreshortening? What about proportions, or composition? How about in fucking sculpture where geometry is intrinsic? Or math which is entirely mathematical? Logic goes into deciding every element of a piece to most efficiently convey a message, meaning, emotional response, etc. Logic dictates how pieces are composed to maximize limited resources. Art is equally as capable as programming as teaching logic, it just does it in a very different way and both are easy to pickup, difficult to master.

t. lead programmer for a software suite developer with a bachelor's in computer science and a master's in fine arts / printmaking, former art director for an art magazine with multiple pieces in regional and national galleries

>>385723802
>Former art.....
>Former.

>FORMER.

Opinion discarded. Work on your ego, BTW.

>>385723802
U mad?

>>385723914
Why should you discard his opinion because he moved on from one field? Does that magically negate all of his experience in that field?

>>385723802
Shit advice.

Your "experience" makes your mind slow. I can make do using my fluid mind and creative thinkings.

>>385723632
I can only tell you what we did for 'art' artists, selling framed copies of photos. Basically you just calculated the time you spent taking, editing, printing, matting and framing and then just plug it into whatever hourly wage you felt you were worth. I did 20/hr as someone who had spent time learning this shit but without any reputation.
I don't know if this translates as a contractor on something without a fixed number of copies but I suggest you learn to get detailed information of what's expected of you, learn to estimate how long these expectations will take for you to implement and then plug in what you're worth.

>>385715093
Lolno. Maybe if you're missing a few chromosomes.

>>385724029
>You experience makes your mind slow.

Nani?

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>>385723496
Yea, that's one thing. No one is going to like doing exactly what someone else is saying for free.
Then again, those are my personal projects, and therefore I want those to be exactly like I want.

So my options are either to bite the bullet and git gut at programming, pay someone (lol no) or somehow find and enthusiast who likes what I want to do and, *shudder*, communicate and try to make something decent by compromising.

>>385716365
>this takes years to master.
Why do dumb CS graduates keep propagating this meme? To make themselves feel smarter? You're fucking dumb.

>>385724247
The brain is a fine tuned machine. If you put too much knowings, your mind gets counky and sluggish trying to remember.

If you have no knowings, your brain is fast, like a horse.

You stupid fucker idiot.

>>385712337
>ideas guy
git gud

>>385715031
You stick with it. What do you expect? Unless you're serious about it and don't have the attention span of a gold fish, then you could've easily achieved your goal. Just stick with it even if you have no motivation. Motivations are only good for short term work, not long term ones

>>385716360
How would I feed myself?

>>385723632
I'm
>>385723802
Starting from college after my first bachelor's I did freelance for a while. It depends on your expenses and experience. I charged $20/hr starting out, but eventually once I built up a name for myself locally I was able to start charging over $70/hr. You should never devalue your work, and work for less than it's worth or costs you. If you do, your clients will spread the word that you're cheap, and others will demand similar low prices forever. If you do design work, my friends in that field usually charged $500 minimum for logo designs for friends and non profits, but charged hourly for regular clients. If you do good, honest work for good causes like that with discounts, that's acceptable, but don't feel like you have to, and never do that for businesses an/or regular clients.

>>385723914
I switched careers because of politics, all the circles I was in became cliques and a bunch of people were just disgusting pieces of shit. I moved across the country but saw similar things I didn't like so I switched. Now I see a lot of similar attitudes within certain circles here too. I'm considering leaving in 2 years, calling in some contacts, and starting a game studio once I have the capital to get it up and running. Be my own boss. I've got good contacts in just about every field for gamedev.

>>385724039
Thanks for the heads up. Though it seems subjective in my favor. I can see why the rates would infuriate people unless there is a cap.

Thanks.

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>Make good game with shit art
>Get moneys
>Update art now that you have funds
>Fans boycot game because they miss the old art

>>385724751
Is your brain big?

>>385724791
>You
>Making a game
Tell me now what game

>>385724751
I see. Thanks for the info.

>>385724936
Wave.

>>385725004
This? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ketchapp.wave&hl=en

Where's the second game?

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>>385724949
>Spends all of childhood coming up with this cool idea world in my head.
>Spend teenage years writing about and drawing characters in my idea notebook.
>Spend college on a programing course, while tuning my art on loomis and /ic/.
>Gather an impressive portfolio, and on the ready to gather devs like musicians, extra artists, programers and even a marketer. All with the help of a loan.
>Spend the greatest 5 months of my life coming up with an Alpha, which plays FUCKING GOOD. And it feels so good having a game to play, at last.
>Finally ready to show, speak to a big-name publisher that will lend the extra resources to make everything a reality.

>Publishers cancel deal over already having too big a queu on strategy games.
>Game gets shelved for at least 5 years, thanks to our contract.

Kill me now.

>>385724552
Where should I begin now

>>385725623
You should have at least mentioned
>signs shitty contract

>>385725623
The publishers are probably waiting for the loan to pile up to a point you can't cover it then offer to pay off your loan for the rights to your game if it's as good as you think it is.