>turn based combat Truly the brainlet genre

>>385709383
That's why Japanese people love it

this board is nothing but cancer

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>>385709383
>turn based combat is a "genre"

>>385711162
that was not the image I uploaded, what the hell

I will never understand the appeal of games like FF. I've played VII and X and both were a total snoozefest. Never again.

If anything its the opposite since you need to be able to plan ahead.
See chess.

the true brainlet combat is real time shit that's so slow that even retards can play it with no problem under impression that they're smart
e.g. MOBAs, counter strike

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with turn-based combat, but most of them that do have it are laughably simple and shallow.

The best turn-based games are the strategy ones where you have to move units around, like XCOM, Advance Wars, etc. That shit justifies that sort of combat system. Stuff like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are just boring.

>>385711368
Stop trying to cherry pick chess.

Most turnbased games are simple grinding and then just clicking attack button to win.

People brag about shit like SMT has the peak of turnbased combat but all you gotta do is spam the debuff option then kille them to win

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>Action game
>Pretty much avoid the same attacks with dodge roll all game long

>>385711403
>the true brainlet combat is real time shit that's so slow that even retards can play it with no problem

Then why do /v/ suck at fighting games then? Oh wait since you gotta plan in real time instead of having all the time in the world to attack.

> I DISLIKE THING GIVE ME (YOU)S

>>385711368
Chess is an SRPG

>>385711719
Chess isn't even an SRPG, it's just a pure TBS game.

>>385711305
>I will never understand the appeal of games like FF.
Just to make things completely clear: what those games feature is not turn-based combat. It's called that sometimes because people are morons, and because it did evolve FROM a very simple type of turn based combat. but ATB us really just purely real-time combat system based around long cool downs.

Imagine, if you will, a competitive fighting game, slowed down to the point where each frame inputs every 500ms, 2 per second. Top level players make every input count, knowing exactly how many frames each attack, each technique, each hit or block or jump takes. With amount of reaction time provided, every input is close to perfect, not quite TAS levels since there is still a human behind them with human knowledge and human errors, but for the most part players are assumed to have perfect control over their character at each input.

Every frame, every second, both players simultaneously input an action, observe their opponents action on the screen, and react accordingly in their next frame of motion. Both actions occur simultaneously and each player has no way of knowing the other player's action before inputting their own for that frame.

Is the game turn based?

>>385711585
>Then why do /v/ suck at fighting games then?
I see much more retards complaining about /v/ complaining about fighting games than actual /v/ posters complaining about fighting games.
Of all the internet communities, /v/ is probably the least opposed to fighting games, with exceptions of specialized forums like shoryuken

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>tfw every time you consider playing KOTOR you recall the awful combat system

>>385712517
Yet they love to bitch about putting time in to fighting games

>>385711540

It's still more fun than choosing "attack" in a menu.

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Indeed, i dropped Pokemon Yellow, FF, FF VII, Chrono Trigger, some Ranma RPG, Parasite Eve (this was the best one because of the horror approach), KOTOR, Paper Mario and probably more i'm forgetting, trying to find the appeal of turn based combat. So far, it's pure diluted shit.

>>385713038
But Chrono Trigger's combat system is actually good, compared to most SNES and PSX RPGs
Why most of the rest sucks:
>random encounters
>battles teleport you to a completely different room - totally immersion breaking
CT's combat system, with its techs and combos is so much superior to even other Square JRPGs like FF

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Turn based games are fun if you always go glasscannon and rely on RNG such as crits.
The tension makes up for the rather slow pace.

The older you get the more you are happy that turn based games exist since your reactions and attentionspan will get worse by the years.
I just enjoy playing at my own pace and testing planning strategies.

Locking yourself out of a good portion of great games because of the combat system is narrow-minded imo.

>>385709383
Yes I'm sure you'd burn through Jagged Alliance 2 like it was one of you VNs in an afternoon

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>>385709383
>thing feels bad to me and my pathetic palette...
>SO GET RID OF THING!

>>385709383
>Weeb
>disliking main style of jap game combat

Well this is a first

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fuck off dunkey

>>385709383
>OP has shit taste as always
Truly a brainlet person.

This comparison isn't very good, because people don't exactly have united intuitions about what a role of a Queen would be.

I think he was going more for the old "man is the head of the household, but woman is the neck that moves it" allusion, but it did not quite work out.

I like his analysis, they are mostly fairly good, but this particular statement is either torn out of context, or pretty meaningless.

>>385712724
Who are "they"? Smashfags?

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>Try to play older turn based game
>It's just brain dead choice making of auto attacking, spamming spell the enemy is weak to and just keeping up buffs
>Drop game mid playthrough because that's boring as fuck

>>385712225
No because each player is acting at the same time.

Turn based combat sucks because it can pretty much be boiled down to the gambit system in FFXII every time it's been tried. Optimal play can be easily achieved by using the same few optimal spells/abilities each encounter, and a given encounters difficulty really just depends on what the RNG, not the player, will do. People who compare it to chess are retarded because chess is literally 0 RNG and actually tactical. The only chess comparison becomes valid when you think that computers can easily beat humans because it works on pure logic, the difference is that, even with copious amount of RNG involved in them, the amount of scripts needed for a computer to cheese through RPG fights is miniscule compared to chess, because there's very little logic or tactics involved in turn based combat, and absolutely nothing else besides those.

It really is a trash outdated system and you play the role of a script in a skinner box. Just spamming the same optimal moves/buffs/debuffs over and over until RNG dictates the encounter is through. The height of "tactics" in an RPG is "this enemy is weak/susceptible to element/debuff so I'll use that", or past that "This enemy has a way higher M.Def than P.Def, so we should use physical abilities", which is pretty much reading an instruction and a hilariously minor variable.

>>385714289
You are actually, completely, mindboggingly retarded. Wow. Just... how the fuck are you even alive?

>>385714410
I get his point, however he made a misassumption.

He's thinking of generic turn based combat #37 when most games have a crucial mechanic to the combat
>Bravely Default with the B/D system
>SMT with Press Turn
>Tokyo Mirage Session with the chain-combos

Hell even FFX, a pretty standard combat system, let's you swap party members without penalty on each turn opening up a wide variety of approaches and risks by giving you basically 7 party members at once.
Moreover, the bosses are the real meat of JRPGs and newer games made the random encounters doable in 1-2 turns.
The gambit system was an elegant solution to generic as fuck turn based combat systems, however only old games use those

>>385715108
He actually did not say a single thing that would not be mindboggling wrong.
From not knowing what simultaneous turns are, past assuming that the JRPG garbage that games like Final Fantasy use is actually turn based past assuming that RNG is intergral to turn-based games, past not realizing that well executed RNG relies on things such as risk-management and emergency planning, past mentioning fucking SKINNER BOX that has absolutely no fucking relevance to this particular subject matter... there is not a single thing fucking right about what he said.

He literally does not know what turn-based combat MEANS, and yet here he is posting walls of garbage throwing shit at it.

This beyond pathetic.

>>385715108
Isn't the press turn system basically just the same tactics outlined? Use the correct element or pray to the RNG gods and get your bonus, don't and you don't. The "crucual mechanic" usually just adds another line to the chain of optimisation rather than break it entirely.
>>385715317
Throw some RPG's out to refute my point then m8. If I'm so wrong, it shouldn't be hard to give a few examples.

>>385715463
>Throw some RPG's out to refute my point then m8.
Why RPG's? You do realize that turn based combat system is actually not native to RPG games, and that there is actually an entire fucking genre of games called Turn Based Strategies?

>>385715317
>risk-management and emergency planning
Again this is my fucking problem with RPG's. The reason you need risk management and emergency planning is that the RNG, not the player, decides how things truly play out. Hence the skinner box, you know it doesn't pay out every time...

>>385715609
Then throw out some games with turn based combat, as we were talking about in the thread. Shit like Dominions is turn based and simultaneous, however it doesn't fall into the realm of Turn Based Combat because the combat happens independently, you only set it up to happen on your turn.

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>>385709383
>he can't into strategy

>>385715463
>The "crucual mechanic" usually just adds another line to the chain of optimisation rather than break it entirely.

Well you got to keep in mind that party management is an extension of the combat, just like character upgrades are in RPGs.
To stay at the example of Press turn, I could fuse a demon with high crit chance and speed and hope that the first hit gives me an extra turn + massive damage. with that advantage I can auto-attack and the fight is over in seconds. If not I have to adapt to the current enemy. If it's a lot of enemies, should I go for a AoE spell that costs me precious MP or hope for a miss by the enemy for a new turn.
>pray to the RNG gods and get your bonus, don't and you don't.
Well that's where I personally get my excitement from. There is a certain satisfaction of praying for a crit when you need one and it actually happens. Sure, not the most skillful way of playing but certainly the most tense.

>The reason you need risk management and emergency planning is that the RNG, not the player, decides how things truly play out.
But there is RNG in action games aswell, such as bullshit boss patterns and saying a game has RNG is not a bad thing per say, especially since one of your complaints was that it's too predictable

>>385711162
>>385711219

Moot strikes again

>>385716172
Well yeah but it being an extension of the combat still leaves the combat in a similar situation it was already in. And the rest, your just hoping that factors outside of your control line up for you, which I don't understand at all. Why not cheat engine through or use save states at that point, it's not like your skill is a factor in this.

I mean, if you enjoy it then more power to ya, but it doesn't really do anything to make me think of the combat system as anything other than trash.

There is RNG in action games, but it's a side dish rather than the meat. No matter how bullshit the boss pattern gets, no matter what the computer decides happens, the player is ultimately the one who decides how the encounter plays out, based on his skill, with time as a factor. In turn based combat, the result is ultimately out of his hands once he plays optimally. RNG is not necessarily bad, but in turn based combat it's pretty much the only factor in besides a near non-existent sheen of tactics that matters. Or you can grind but that just improves your numbers, doesn't add any depth to the gameplay (some would argue it takes it away), and is soul crushing. To talk about Shin Megami Tensei for example, you can get into an early encounter (before countermeasures is available), get ambushed, and get hit by an instadeath attack. There are ways to manage this risk later, but a comparative situation in an action game is getting blindsided by a strong attack from a strong enemy, which can pretty much be dodged or whatever if the player has it in him.

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>>385716869
I partially agree and realize I can't pull you over to our side.
Here's hoping that one day you will be able to look past its flaws because I enjoy them a lot as do many others
I wish to keep arguing but I have to leave. Decent talk, thanks

>>385716000
>what are fighters

You can't win online by mashing

>>385717274
Hopefully I will, I actually tried one on the Vita because it seems what it's mostly good for but I dropped it fairly early in and can't find the wherewithal to continue due to aforementioned reasons. Good luck with whatever you're doin.

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>>385709383
Both realtime and turn based game have their place.

>>385717545
This.

Move along, people. There's nothing to see here. Just OP being a stupid idiot, as usual.