>p-please don't kill me, I deserve to live

>>385504931
Rip Simon 2. You were better off never waking up

Waking up alone and confused and being trapped to slowly go insane underwater is a fate more cruel than death

The subject of Soma is really interesting, too bad it's so poorly handled.

>I deserve to live
Not in a hellhole with no escape.

>>385505287
How so

>>385505337
Just glosses over everything and hamfists the rest

>>385505391
You're being overly vague

It showed the subject and explored it but left the player to think about it and how they felt about it

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I love the game, but I do think it tried to tackle too many things story-wise, just too many "high concepts".

Plus, I wish there had been less of Catherine. Her presence as an adviser really deterred me from feeling truly isolated and confused.

WAU did literally nothing wrong

I'm probably never going to beat this. Can someone tl;dr the plot for me? What was with the intro where you are in a sort of normal world?

>>385504931
>Not leaving him alive so
[spoilers] your second physical copy can come back for him after the ending [/spoiler]

>>385506330
wew, kill yourself my man

>>385505337
I really hate it when the protag is even dumber than I am.

>>385506462
>Simon hanging out with Simon
>the Simons make more Simons
>Simon club
Retake the ocean.

>>385504931
Still the scariest part of anything involving transfer of consciousness or teleportation tech if it were ever invented.

At the end of the day, you'd be dead and won't even know it. At least in Soma you can physically see that the copy is left behind (and therefore Old You is not New You).

>>385505914
>nothing wrong
>genocides most of its wards because some art school dipshit taught it that "humanity" can be summed up as your memories
>nu age ai dindu nuffin because it's serving "humanity" since their memories are better preserved in synthetic bodies constanting roleplaying groundhog's day than doing anything else
>then tries to kill its own creations because they are opposing it by doing nothing at all and fails miserably despite having a network to tell where they are at all times
It did a lot wrong, but the real villain here is the writer behind this mess.

>>385507049
>You'd be dead
Implying there's more you "you" than your conscious thoughts, that's like a snake shedding it's skin becoming a different snake.

No, you wouldn't be dead, you've just exchanged one corporeal husk that housed your thoughts for another.

The only real risk and danger behind such technology would be that its better to simply discard 90% or more of the human race and simply copy the best samples we can get.

>>385504931
no one deserves anything
you live and then you die
what a life

>>385507226
>housing your thoughts

That makes no sense, thoughts are nothing more than your biological brain interpreting events. You simply just get cloned and the other clone feels as if he were transferred.

>>385505391
>>385505287
I think it handles this kind of thing perfectly.

You pose the question to an audience (what does being self aware entail) then you show the conditions in which it applies and you let your audience decide for themselves


The best thing about seeing the ending for both versions of Simon is that you are then allowed to decide what that means for yiu

>>385507662
No, you get copied like putting a piece of paper into a copying machine and the original either remains or gets discarded, no "death" is involved here since the identity persists as either or both copies.

At worst, (one of) your body(s) dies and you live in through a copy, which is hardly equal to dying as an person.

>>385506330
Go watch the movie The Prestige.

>>385507184
It's an AI that's programmed to keep the human populace alive.

It did that to some degree, not what we would call "alive" but it's only doing what it's told to.

>>385507697
The copy is not the original... YOU will die in transfer. The copy will wake up thinking nothing happened.

>>385508052
>"YOU" will die
No, YOU will get copied and the original is left behind/dies, YOU will be just fine as there is a functioning copy of YOU doing and being everything that YOU are.

>>385508110
You are the original though.

>>385508110
There is no transfer of consciousness. You die in transit. You, yourself as an individual. Your clone wakes up thinking it is you, but you were destroyed.

CONSCIOUSNESS ARGUMENT

>>385508151
>>385508250
Except YOU are nothing more than the processes that persist in your brain, as long as those same processes exist in the same manner in your copy YOU are just fine.

There is no reason or basis to believe there is more to YOU than that.

>>385504931
Soma story is shit, you want to know why?

Simon is a robot right?
He can stick his usb into any computer there is and copy himself than why can't he have a simon party there?
Or he can simply try to shut himself down and wake up in 10000 years to walk on green earth again.

Also this game is as "Deep" as my asshole. Simon simply died and there is a copy, there are simply 2 simons nothing deep there.

>>385508151
What does it mean to be the original though?

Do you know that atoms die off in your body one by one until they're entirely replaced? In about 10 years or so all the atoms in your body are replaced.

Ship of Theseus.

>>385508320
Can't transfer the soul through machines. Our self awareness is unlike many other creatures, very few possess it, I dont believe we're just biological machines fulfilling base programming, it's nihilistic as fuck.

>>385507184
>Good boy AI wants to keep the last humans safe.
>Humans create a suicide cult and start offing themselves hoping their 'souls' will transfer into a shitty Second Life clone.
>AI has has a HAL moment.

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>>385508490
>nothing deep there
>the game is set in the deep sea
Now you fucked up

>>385508565
>Do you know that atoms die off in your body one by one until they're entirely replaced

Not your brain cells which is why old people forget stuff more often.

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>>385504931

>>385508490

The station's power runs out at the end of the game and Simon runs on a limited battery. His body is also biological.

>>385508320
What would be the difference between you being destroyed in the process of your copy or you dying sometime after the creation of your copy? You are still dead, just because there's a copy of you running around doesn't change that fact.

>>385508490
.t brainlet

>Or he can simply try to shut himself down and wake up in 10000 years to walk on green earth again.

What makes you think the systems will even work in 10k years without upkeep?

>>385508671
How does it get power in the first place?

>>385508582

What if you were to slowly replace little pieces of your brain with synthetic replacements for several years until your whole brain was synthetic? Would your consciousness continue over?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

>>385508747
Why would they break without use?

>>385508490
>the game is shit because he could just make his underwater hellhole into a big mess of various copies of himself
>or he could just turn himself off and hope he his consciousness is recovered from the bottom of the ocean and uploaded into a platform that can actually simulate him

What in the hell are you even talking about? How does any of that have any bearing on whether or not the game's main premise can provoke some level of thought?

>>385508582
>The soul
The what now? What the fuck are you talking about anon? The soul is a mythological construct like the Loch Ness monster or Zeus, there is no basis for it existing or reason to believe that it does. I mean where the fuck does it come from? Where does it reside? Why does it require our physical form to persist? What does it actually DO?

>Our self-awareness is unlike many other creatures
This is blatantly untrue and more evidence is found on a daily basis proving the opposite than there ever was for actually believing this.

>Very few possess it
Bullshit

>I don't believe
Then you're lying to yourself

>It's nihilistic as fuck
Only because it doesn't match your dreamworld scenario and you're refusing to see the glory that is reality. Rain to me is far more beautiful than the concept of some divine cloud dweller pissing through a sieve.

>>385508320
Yeah 'you' exist for all intents and purposes to a third party person interacting with the clone.

But if you got into a transfer station, fell asleep a bit and had the cloning process take place, you will just wake up still chained up. There was no transfer of consciousness (that's superstition), you didn't go anywhere.

>>385508767

Geothermal vents, but by the time you get to the end of the game 50% of the station has flooded or collapsed.

>>385508565
You're thinking of cells not atoms and even that isn't true entirely.

>>385508830
What's so deep about

Simon + mindcopy = Simon + Wall-e simon?

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>>385508839
>tips fedora

>>385508818
Are you serious right now?

>>385508612
No, old people have slower brains simply because the brain's process of replacing old tissue slows down as you age from roughly 25 years onward, arguably it starts slowing down earlier and but this is all very conflicted stuff in neuroscience.

It also a different process entirely of cells being replaced as you live your life, so you're confusing two vastly different concepts here.

>>385508705
>You are still dead
No, one of your copies is dead, the other is just fine.

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>>385508792
Yes, because I retain my identity. It's functionally the same thing as swapping out atoms and molecules while you eat, breathe, metabolise etc.

>>385507919
You don't live on through the copy though, that's the whole dilemma. In SOMA no transfers of consciousness take place, they just get cloned around.

>>385508612
Except that new neurons are being created in the brain and THAT is the case old people forget things and memories fade and are being replaced, kek. Some parts of our brain do not undergo it, but you're pretty wrong here still.

>>385508963
Yes

>>385509031
>Implying there is an aspect to consciousness that could possibly be transferred
Hello? What?

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https://youtu.be/pdxucpPq6Lc
y'all should watch this

>>385509006

So why can't consciousness be stored and uploaded in that case?

>>385508921
Why do you think that the depth to the game's story comes from understanding the most basic premise of who you're playing as?

Depth in a story doesn't come from being able to comprehend the plot, you dip.

>>385508320

I don't even understand what you're trying to claim. A materialistic view of conciousness would imply that the original dies and the new copy lives on with the original memories. The biochemical process of conciousness has been completely interrupted. Claiming they're the same individual would require some kind of supernatural view of the human soul.

>>385508854
Fixing the station would have made for a pretty sweet game.

>>385509119
What's so deep about it then?

>>385508792
Yes

>>385506330

I'll play it for you irl but you'l have to stroke me as I play.

>>385509120
If I have a piece of paper with the word (You) on it, make a copy of that piece of paper and shred the original, there would still be a piece of paper with (You) on it.

Same with a human being, YOU would still exist, there'd just be one less copy of you if either one of the copies dies.

>>385507919
no retardio
if the machine creates a copy of you and destroys the original you don't get "transferred" you just get cloned and killed by a murderous machine

your brain is just a set of neurones that ransmit and house electrical impulses akin to a computer

it's the same concept with cut/pasting a document on a computer, it doesn't really do that, it just copies the document and after it's done pasting it it deletes the original

>>385509006
Fucking brainlet, you have uour braincells your whole life.

>>385509067
salt water erodes metal like crazy

>>385509097
Because no one knows how to do it yet, if it's possible.

>>385509195

It wouldn't be the same fucking piece of paper, which is the issue here.

>>385509221
Stay inside and don't touch water?

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>>385508582
>It makes me feel bad, therefore I don't think it's correct

Also, while a copy/delete scenario is clearly death for you, that copy is as much you as anything else. Your ideas, memories, thought processes, etc., these are what make you who you are. Your string of consciousness is a brief, jumpy thing that barely persists from moment to moment, let alone your entire life, so why not pass the torch if it's beneficial?

>>385509216
Pretty sure they still rely on chemical reactions to function, just like every other cell.

>>385509067
You don't know why systems at the bottom of the ocean (we can assume the ones inside the facility could be catastrophically damaged by the facility decaying over time and then being crushed is a given) might not operate after being subjected to ten thousand years of various corrosion reactions that come with salt water, being inhabited by organic matter, and just general fuckery that could happen with changing climate and currents might not work?

>>385509247
But it'd still be YOU, just not the same YOU, but why does that matter?

Nobody here is arguing translocation anon, the very premise is that the original that was copied ends up gone, but that doesn't mean that what makes YOU what and who you are is somehow gone, because there is a functioning copy that is everything that you are.

So again, why does it matter that it isn't the same piece of paper? What value is there in the "original" if the copy is 100% identical?

>>385509195
I don't really get it, can you use a food analogy instead?

>>385509274
sorry what are the buildings made of?
SALT WATER ERODES EVERYTHING

>>385509406
Let's say you have a piece of chicken. But then you clone that piece of chicken into a chicken and implant that chickens memories from storage.

>>385509406
You have two identical hamburgers, you eat one. Is the other one now no longer a hamburger? Is the concept of hamburger now gone?

This game is on sale on PSN right now for $7 I believe but I don't like horror games. Is it worth playing? I've heard the story is fantastic.

>>385509145
The questions it poses about the nature of self?

>>385506330

Hard to summarise but here you go

>You are Simon, a man dying of a brain injury
>You get your mind scanned and uploaded and die a few weeks later
>You wake up as SIMON-2, a robotic brain shoved inside a decapitated corpse with Simon's personality
>You meet Catherine, a dead woman whose brain was uploaded onto a PDA
>You discover the Earth was destroyed in an apocalypse
>You work your way deeper into the station to launch the Ark, a computer simulation with everyone's brain scans uploaded onto it so they can live in digital paradise
>Halfway through Catherine tricks you into copying yourself to become SIMON-3, then you kill SIMON-2 (or leave him to go insane)
>You descend to the abyss and either destroy the insane AI keeping the human race alive by turning them into cyborg monsters or leaving it alone
>You reach the Ark and launch it into space, and SIMON-3 believes his consciousness will switch to the Ark
>It doesn't, he's left alone at the bottom of the ocean as the power turns off and Catherine's battery dies
>You then switch to SIMON-4 and meet Catherine again in the Ark simulation, while SIMON-3 is left alone in the abyss

>>385508947
>we're discussing how mind transfer would work objectively
>"how dare you not include my subjective viewpoint based on religion you fedora edgelord"

fucking end it my dude

>>385509195
me(0) and me(1) are two different entities despite being completely/nearly identical at one point.

>>385504931
consciousness and self is the data stream not data itself
I don't know why there are people who think this is deep or something

>>385509514
Why? You are simply your brain, if someone hits you with a brick you are dead.

>>385509578
But what is the value of the difference? Why is it worth acknowledging it?

>>385509565
>be a fedora
>ugh, nothing even matters. Why isn't everyone intelligent like me? Nothing is real anyway
Nice argument

This whole identity discussion is putting the wagon before the horse, in my opinion. It's a definitional problem to begin with, so *before* you argue about whether or not X1 is in some capacity identical to X2, you have to define precisely what it is that constitutes X1's identity to.

If your definition of a person's identity is their (stored) experiences, their character traits and memories, but nothing having to do with their corporeal existence, then yes, a copy of the contents of the brain would be identical to the original person. But if you have some sort of Leibnizian concept of identity, wherein X1 can only be identical with X2 if X2 has literally all characteristics of X1, then the copy would not be identical and no copy could ever possibly be so.

tl;dr: If you define "the original" well enough, there is no need to argue about whether or not anything is identical to/a continuation of it.

The thing that bothered me about SOMA is how you are railroaded into certain decisions near the beginning, then without warning they start giving you choice. It never occurred to me that I would be allowed to save the WAU.

>>385509145
For one, framing the question as to why I personally think the game is "so deep" is wrong, since I've never made that claim and you're just kind of addressing a general strawman.

Two, I haven't even finished the game. I hated the "scary" gameplay too much to finish it, but I've got enough out of various threads on /v/ and hearing friends talk about it that I understand the gist of it. I won't be able to give you a detailed breakdown of everything that happens in the game and whether or not things get addressed in their entirety or if they're handwaved or whatever.

Three, things are "deep" because it means that there's just some capacity to think about their meaning within the context of the overall work. If people call the game's premise "deep," it's because it's some conduit to larger thoughts about consciousness or something. Fuck if I know. It's something to chew on and the answer isn't clear cut. Like when you're uploading some guy's simulated brain so you can tease a passcode out of it by using different stimuli to trick him into telling you. You keep booting it up, trying something, and then shutting it down if you fail. That simulated brain you're booting up is exactly like your player character; his experiences are all as "real" to him as they are to your character. So you're just uploading a person's mind, who had just been sitting in a chair like Simon had been originally, and woke up in a reality where they're trying to be tricked and they aren't where they were told they'd be, and then they're just kind of snuffed out. It's a weird thing that implicitly asks you how do you feel about simulated consciousnesses in general.

All of that to explain that depth in a story doesn't come from trying to understand some convoluted plot. Something a lot of writers don't understand.

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This is how russian son of the russian scientist looks like according to Frictional Games

>>385509640
You should experience that some time.

>>385509654

Is it me or are Christians the new fedoras? All they seem to do is shitpost loudly about their beliefs and post cringey shit like Deus Vult all over youtube comments.

>>385509654
>Projecting bullshit because he doesn't want to accept his fairy tales are not real
How about actually addressing the points you were presented with, instead of making up your own.

I've already explained to you there is nothing nihilistic about what I presented you with, but you insist anyway, without basis or reasoning.

>>385509676
>you have to define precisely what it is that constitutes X1's identity to.
*to begin with

>>385509437
>implying like that matters when we have fucking black nanobots substance fixing everything up
>even in-game they state that maintenance is mostly done by smearing black nano-shit everywhere

come up with a better excuse

>>385509095
guys please watch it it's about the same concepts as soma and I wanna talk about it

>>385505287
The best description of Soma I've ever heard is that somehow people forgot cut&paste exists rather than copy&paste.

>>385509703

It's almost like he was working on an international underwater laboratory with women all over the planet who may have included black people.

>>385509703
Hate to tell you, but Frictional Games are SJWs

Simon lost my sympathy when he failed to even ask if the second time would be different, and just assumes it will be.

>>385509653
In the game's case, it matters because 0 is left sitting in a scan-chair watching a computer simulation of himself going 'Wow, Im in the machine!', which is utterly worthless to 0.

>>385509750
cut and paste is just copy pasting but then deleting the original file you dumb fuck

>>385509358

Because it has a different worldline. It's past is not the same, it only started existing the moment it was copied. Thus, even if it ACTS the same, it is not, and can never be, a perfect copy.

>>385509654
>lazily projecting
>no argument
>"haha gaiz he haz no argument lmaos"

i repeat
fucking end it

>>385509771
>Simon lost my sympathy when he failed to even ask if the second time would be different, and just assumes it will be.
You have to remember that Simon is a literal brain-damaged retard. Probably why he fails to grasp basic concepts as copying.

>>385509704
; ) Fanks 4 <YOU> amom

>>385509804
No it isn't. It's just editing the file-path for the original to be in a different folder.

Unless it's between different drives/partitions of course

Why didn't the idiots just automatically delete themselves immediately after transferring.

There's absolutely nothing bad about ceasing to exist. The you of a second ago already ceased to exist. The same thing that happens when you die is what you were a second ago.

>>385509874

But they did do that. A lot of them committed suicide after uploading themselves.

>>385509771
So what's stopping 0 from getting up from the char and carrying on doing 0 things?

It just brings to mind an example; You make 100 copies of yourself, and each of you spends a month living their lives doing a variety of different things, experiencing different circumstances etc. One of you gets hit by a car and dies. Does it matter if this was the original?

>>385509874
Making a copy of yourself and dieing is still dieing.

One of the scientists had the same daft idea and snuck a suicide pill into the scanning room to off himself at the moment of scanning, somehow figuring it'd ensure the 'coinflip' put HIM in the Arc instead of a computer copy. But we all know all that happened was that HE died and the computer copy was left thinking to itself 'I'm so smart!'

>>385509484
Anyone?

>>385507049
>you'd be dead an won't even know it

Nobody who is dead knows it

>>385509653
Whoever values it determines the value, whether it's worth acknowledging is entirely a subjective judgment.

>>385509874
For the virtual copies, sure, it's easy to immediately and automatically delete what's left behind, but the organic remnants would be a bit more difficult.

But people were doing, they started killing themselves right after the transfer.

>>385509991
A console pleb won't be able to appreciate it.

>>385509941
Simon's whole reason for getting himself on the Arc was to escape the dark empty techno-monster-infested underocean shithole. There was nothing for him to 'carry on doing'. He might even have been left stuck in that very chair.

>>385509960
Smart enough to make self aware computer

Dumb enough to not realize you still die

DEEP WELL WRITTEN GAME

>>385509993
Right, but what I'm asking here is a scenario or premise in which acknowledging a value here has some merit. and I was hoping you could give me one, since I'm interested in some perspective.

>>385509750
your conciousness is copied, not moved, thats what you mean

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>>385510074
I can't decipher this post sorry

I didn't even play this game, I just watched a let's play all the way through
glad I did though cause the threads for it are interesting

>If /v/ was on the station they would never have stopped arguing long enough to scan their brains.
>After realising it must spend eternity caretaking these babies WAU promptly self-terminates.

>>385509720
>>385509721
>>385509837
r/atheism is leaking again ffs. You're a god damned moron if you seriously think you're just a sack of meat programmed to think. How exactly do you figure? You're capable of abstract thought and reasoning, something well beyond the realm of basic biological programming. There is more to being human than the mundane.

>>385510043
So really all that happened was him doing the things he did didn't change anything about his own fate.

Okay? So what's the issue here? Simon 0 was powerless to escape and did the only thing with his existence that would have external meaning before passing away. He also uploads his thoughts and experiences as I understand it so those carry on as well, just not in the same husk he leaves behind. One of his copies is fucked, himself as an entity carries on.

Even if you want to argue something greater to an individual, Simon as I understand it already died shortly after his initial brain scan in the intro, so if you want to talk about the death of Simon, there would never have been an actual Simon to die, since he already did die.

>>385509095
>>385509749
Yeah it's good, and reinforces my choice to stay away from any teleportation that isn't portal-based
>Scientist didn't just stop at 'holy shit I made a machine that copy anything, limited resources are no longer a thing'

>>385510031
The fuck is wrong with you? How would I not be able to appreciate it simply for playing it on console.

>>385510206
>There is more to being human than the mundane.
Well, prove it.

>Monster banging on the door
>No extra pressure suits left
>WAU worm destroyed the way back
>Waters infested with WAU fish
>Launchpad lost power
Even if you leave yourself behind, both are still fucked. If you destroy the WAU, you cut your life short. If you leave the WAU, the monsters gonna get you eventually. The only one who gets a happy end here are the ones already trapped in WAU's ark and Catherine's ark

>>385510309
And the dead.

>>385505287
I think it was well handled but it was disappointingly introductory.

The philosophical problems and (the developers') conclusions which the game presents to the player are basically the first things you read about the topic when you google for it.

There are a lot more interesting problems to the whole consciousness / artificial consciousness thing than 'what happens when you copy a backed up consciousness' and the rest of the stuff the game deals with.

I guess it's similar to Westworld. It's basic because the point isn't necessarily to blow the players mind, but to have them viscerrally experience something that would otherwise be an abstract intellectual thought.

I can suggest starting to read sci fi novels in general. Those typically go much more in depth on practical exercises of philosophical problems.

>>385510206
>How exactly do you figure
Evidence points to this and nothing but this.
>You're capable of abstract thought
And what makes you believe this is special, or requires special non-biological circumstance?
>Something well beyond the realm of basic biological programming
There is no reason to believe this and evidence to the contrary.
>There is more to being human than the mundane
This is not a claim you can make without an argument to support it. WHY is there more to being human than the mundane and WHAT would that be?

Again, there is no reason to believe this other than abject refusal to believe the truth in front of you because it makes you uncomfortable or you were told some other story was true and you just believed it blindly.

>r/Atheism
I'm not sure how Atheism has anything to do with this subject anon, Atheism is the denial of god, which is as much of a foolhardy belief as blindly insisting something MUST exist.

>>385510309
WAU's ark is fucked up though.

>>385510369
I swear to god if you recommend DADOES I'm going to flip a shit

>>385510206
Buddy, we're both sacks of meat. It's fine though, just be meat. Be good meat.

I'm gonna die and nothing is going to happen. It's cool, everything is going to die. There's no meaning to anything, but luckily we only live 100 years if we're healthy, and we are very stupid, so there's plenty of fun to have in 100 years.

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what is WAU?

>>385510396
They sound happy to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSIVpDdYDvs

>>385510391
>Atheism is the denial of god, which is as much of a foolhardy belief as blindly insisting something MUST exist.
But...
>Evidence points to this and nothing but this.

>>385510514
it's german for "woof"

>>385510514
The game's artificial superintelligence.

>>385510515
Yeah but what about the malfunctioning monsters? Like the notWitch?

>>385505391
This argument is poorly handled

>>385510206
>something well beyond the realm of basic biological programming

dolphins are capable of both of those things
i think chimpanzees too

and the way our brain works biologically has already been figured out almost completely, i don't know which century you're stuck in but they've now moved on to tackling this concept called "psychology" where they also figure out how our consciousness works

>>385510514
The shit they made up to justify the game having scary monsters to hide from because they don't know how to make a game without them

>>385510596
Not part of the ark, just plain fucked

>>385507049
lets be real

if anybody ever understands consciousness so well that they can put it in a computer, they'll figure out how to actually transfer it instead of just copy

>>385510667
Amnesia was scary. Soma wasn't too scary honestly.

>>385509526

You actually die when you get your brain scanned. That's why it feels like you just teleported and went forward in time to the base. You don't remember anything after that.

>>385508320
>your copy
>YOU
if there was no difference, you wouldn't have to make that distinction.
are you not understanding that people don't give a shit about a copy of themselves when the instance of your consciousness that YOU inhabit is the one you experience, and copying your consciousness isn't the same as /moving/ your consciousness which is the entire point of the ending. Instead of saying "You're just fine!" try saying the /reality/ of the situation, which is You B is just fine, but You A is stuck in an underwater hell.

>>385510530
Yes? The things we discover expand our horizons constantly, there is no reason to believe that couldn't at some point include a conceptual divine or at least similar entity, it also depends greatly on how you conceptualize or define divinity and mysticism.

One of the big questions religious philosophy deals with is "if a god created mankind WHY did they do so?" And the logical extension of "WHY did they do it in the way that they did?"

A possible answer is that god created a seedbed for life as an experiment to see if life could reach the apex it itself embodies through a natural system of progression, we are but one of many test cases to see if we can reach the level of god as we progress. The act of science for example has always been to reverse engineer reality and obtain control over it, taking that to it's apex would essentially make us "god"

Now, given that much of what we know about the universe and life itself implies that it is cyclical, so too could the existence of a god be cyclical. Assume one more that science reaches it's apex and godhood it attained, what then? What's the next step? Creating another simulation and observing the results, restarting the cycle, could be one of many answered there.

Conceptually, god could have set of the big bang and kickstarted existence as we know it out of what it had before, and once we reach that apex we will do the same.

Now, mind telling me how any of this is Atheistic? The simple truth is that it is folly to be convinced of something there is no evidence for, you can believe in god and be reasonable, but to be convinced that it is real and exists is abject idiocy.

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I havent played this game before so i might be wrong but from what ive read in this thread it looks like the devs just copied part of the story from a manga called blame and pasted it in their game

>>385510723
It's not consciousness that's the issue though. It's perception. You wouldn't perceive things through the copy's frame of reference because it's not your perception. We don't know if it's possible to change perception, such as reincarnation.

Copying a consciousness creates a new perception.

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>>385510206
>(you)

>>385510864
>my superior nipponese narratives folded over 1000 times thought of this concept first

weeb, pls, back to /a/

>>385510812

Fake news. The real Simon died a while after the brain scan. It feels like teleporting because you're playing as SIMON-3 and remember SIMON-2 up until the point they were scared.

How the fuck could a brain scan kill him?

>>385510723
Just because they can make a computer AI that's close enough to the real thing to be identical, doesn't mean they've divined the ability to transfer the spark of a person's actual conscious sentience to a machine.

>>385508582
Just because you dont want it to be doesnt mean it isnt so. No bodt knows for sure if they have a soul. In this games world there is no such thing as the soul. The copy's are copy's they know they are but they just cant forget the memories of the original. For most of this game you play a copy, a copy who thinks he is real going so far as to halucinate real limbs even though he is a machine. You cant say he isnt conscious because your playing as him, you are him slowly realizing your arent the original. Your YOU but not the first YOU.

>>385510983
i didnt say it was superior i just said they copied part of it, i dont know why youre so butt hurt

>>385510817
>Are you not understanding
No, and I'm relatively convinced I couldn't if I tried, lacking most of what is normal human ego I don't hold much value to my consciousness as something precious or notable, due to other issues with my health which include periods of functioning while unconscious I also see little reason to put much value into the act of going over your experiences as they are happening as if you are some pilot in a machine that'd function just fine without your interference.

Arguably, consciousness itself is but a relic of our biological need for an emotional override for our regular process in face of danger or other calamity.

>>385511042
I have played Soma and read BLAME! and I don't remember that much similarities between them.

>>385510817
This is why I don't see why the protagonist and the lady didn't arrange to turn themselves off at the instant of transfer. Why have a coin flip at all? Just die. Pretend you're going to sleep if it helps.

When you wake up in the morning, how do you know you're you? Maybe you had a dream, but I don't dream often. There's a few hours almost every day where I don't know I exist. What if the me tomorrow is a copy and the me I am now actually dies in its sleep? Doesn't fucking matter. It's not a deep question, it's an irrelevant one. Death doesn't matter but living is nice.

>>385511109
the reason killy needs the net terminal gene is because humanities minds are in the net and he cant free them and stop the safeguard without it, although as i said i havent played this game so i might be wrong

>>385510850
>One of the big questions religious philosophy deals with is "if a god created mankind WHY did they do so?" And the logical extension of "WHY did they do it in the way that they did?"
This is why theological philosophy is only slightly above feminist philosophy.

>>385511042
you're implying it's superior once you say they copied part of it because it implies they couldn't have possibly come up with it by themselves
also you're wrong because BLAME! doesn't really have that much to do with soma at all

so yeah, back to /a/

>>385509862
And moving data from one robot to another is exactly like moving to a different drive. Thanks for proving your orignal point incorrect :^)

> Game inspires by far the most /lit/ and philosphical discussions on /v/, a board used to talk about "best girl" and e-celeb drama.

If Spec Ops inspire the worst heated discussions (aside from when /pol/ comes around), I think SOMA inspires genuinely the best ones. THIS is how you see true gems, lads. They live on beyond direct marketing because they're actually interesting to talk about.

>>385511219
Yea there's more to it than that though. Human "consciousness" is actually little more than experiencing our memories are we acquire them, people who are drunk and pass out will often be regaled with tales of their exploits while they had no awareness of it themselves, it's not that they can't remember, it's that no memories were made because the brain disabled that function.

Better yet, people with Diabetes can enter a similar state where a glucose deprived brain will enter "sleep" mode while still carrying out day to day activities, leading to tales of someone passing out in the middle of carrying a crate only to wake up in the hospital to learn that after they delivered the crate and signed all the paperwork they suddenly fell on the floor and became unresponsive, the person was functioning just fine even without the consciousness observing.

>>385511259
Anon, there is no such thing as religious philosophy, that's literally just regular philosophy with a stupid name to fool retards.

Congratulations, by the way.

>>385511306
you do know you can copy something and then be superior to the thing you copied right? and i know the game isnt a carbon copy of the manga im just saying that a small part of it seems really similar

>>385511427
Game's too deep for normalfags. Frankly, so is Spec Ops

>>385510530
>which is as much of a foolhardy belief as blindly insisting something MUST exist
do bible bashers really believe this?

"HURR YOU'RE AS DUMB FOR DENYING THE IDEOLOGY WE'RE TRYING TO FORCE ON YOU AS US FOR TRYING TO DO SO DURR"

none of us really know shit but that doesn't equate the two (intended since im catholic) jesus fucking christ

>>385511240
Superficial similarities really. They handle things very differently and don't actually share any themes in their stories other than rogue AIs and basic sci-fi mind scanning.
So I doubt that the devs stole anything from BLAME!, they just had similar ideas and went to a different direction with it.

>>385511532
base off on =/= copy

>>385510206
How much does a soul weigh?

>>385511574
Anon, the argument is that blind faith one way or the other is folly, that doesn't mean it's the same kind of folly or entirely equal on all counts.

Find something sensible to wig out over rather than this semantic tripe.

>>385511669
11 grams, it comes out of the body a while after we die and it's real stinky

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>>385511508
>denying the existence of an entire branch of philosophy just to appear smart to strangers on 4chan

>>385511637
youre probably right, its just the whole "guy saving human minds uploaded on the internet" plot line seems like something only blame has done which is why i said what i said, but i might be wrong since i havent read every sci fi book out there

>>385511817
>An entire branch of philosophy that is literally just the philosophy behind a particular subject which is ultimately no different in anything but topic from other "branches" of philosophy
Wew.
Lad.

>>385511689
but it is not
you just assume it's the same since alot of people are born with a religious faith

but the pure state of the human being is no faith
so it's by far more reckless and dumb to start off not believing in anything and then blindly believing what someone tells you to than to refuse and continue not believing in anything

>>385511990
Sure, but that includes the belief that there isn't anything.

Keeping an open mind and acknowledging that there COULD be something is more apt, but Atheism doesn't allow for that.

>>385504931

I don't get it, all you need to do is hook up your brain to the shitty second life sim.

>>385511943
>An entire branch of philosophy that is literally just the philosophy behind a particular subject
Yeah, that's the criterion by which branches of philosophy are generally categorized and subdivided. Wanna deny the existence of practical and theoretical philosophy as well just because both are subsets of the same main set?

Why did you even start this retarded argument? What a load of shit. Your absolutely unwarranted arrogance certainly doesn't help.

there's no immortality method, you as you are at the computer reading this will die no matter what happens, dumbasses

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>>385512097
i love philosophy gimnastics
>tfw it's as foolhardy of you not to believe that i, as the cosmic being that i am and i am telling you i am, fucked your mom in the ass through a different reality and that created the universe as it is for you to currently believe in a non-cool magic space man

>>385509526
>Decapitated

that's actually because the blackbox exploded and disintegrated the head

>>385512330
>Lets pretend someone said something they didn't say, wow those things he totally didn't say but totally did sure are silly! :^)
You okay there buddy?

>>385512295
The argument that x type of philosophy sure is silly when it's literally no different from any other topic of philosophy, anon, try to keep up
>Your absolutely unwarranted arrogance
I wonder if the fact that you fail to realize the irony in this statement would bother me if it wasn't such a regular occurrence.

>>385509862
>Unless it's between different drives/partitions of course
That's exactly what it is you idiot. The only way to cut&paste in this situation is via physical "brain transfer", which isn't possible without outside help.

>>385512097
>Keeping an open mind and acknowledging that there COULD be something is more apt, but Atheism doesn't allow for that.
Of course it does, you retard. Even fucking Dawkins, the poster boy for "modern atheism", has described his position as malleable and subject to change, should new evidence be presented. I mean, it seems like anyone has a dumbshit pet definition of "atheism" these days anyway, but I'm not aware of any definition that includes something along the lines of "A STRICT AND WHOLLY DOGMATIC DENIAL OF GOD EVEN IN SPITE OF ANY POSSIBLE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY".

I like how throughout the entire game there was never any concern or acknowledgement of catherine's pda battery

>>385512590
>I'm not aware of
There's the problem, then.

Otherwise what you're preaching is agnosticism.

>>385509484
don't be a pussy and just play it

>>385511559
Still, the fact it inspires such discussion is worthy of telling. Looking at the nominees for best story in 2015, how many people are talking about fucking Life is Strange's approach to choice and consequence philosophically? Not a one, it's waifufags all the way down. I don't think anyone gave the slightest shit about Her Story, either.

>>385512485
>The argument that x type of philosophy sure is silly when it's literally no different
But it literally is different, and it is silly precisely for the things that make it different. If you want me to go into detail as to why I think any philosophical efforts that try to determine truth in hypotheticals without determinable truth values, then just ask, or continue to be a childish dick with unimpressive quips.

>I wonder if the fact that you fail to realize the irony in this statement would bother me if it wasn't such a regular occurrence.
Blaaaaaah.

>>385512485
>Lets pretend someone said something they didn't say, wow those things he totally didn't say but totally did sure are silly! :^)
ehm
>Atheism is the denial of god, which is as much of a foolhardy belief as blindly insisting something MUST exist

sounds to me like you did pretty much
you say x is as foolhardy as a
that implies a is as foolhardy as a since they're the same

therefore it IS as foolhardy to insist magic space man exists than it is to insist i'm a magical space being that fucked your mom

but none of it matters anyway since this was originally over souls coming into play while theoretically transferring minds into robots or not

so congrats on derailing the thead i was just giving you a bit of your own medicine

>>385504931
Sorry, but the thought of having a past self of me trapped inside a locked room with a monster screaming for your guts freaks me out more than the guilt of killing said past self.

>>385510864
I haven't played soma at all but reading what it about it reminds me a lot more about the VN Ever17. Since it's it has similar existential debate and also the setting of where the story take place

>>385512680
>Otherwise what you're preaching is agnosticism.
Oh great, you're one of those clowns.

(A)Gnosticism -> pertaining to KNOWLEDGE
(A)Theism -> pertaining to BELIEF

Go fuck yourself.

>>385510049
Smart people can also be stupid sometimes retard.

>>385510309
How long are those ARKs going to last for though?
Can the people on them delete themselves?

>>385512851
>If you want me to go into details
In case it wasn't excruciatingly obvious by this point; I make the claim there is no difference, you make the claim there are differences. It's up to you to present your reasoning here, or I'd have no reason to be convinced.

So yes. Go into details if you want this to be an actual argument rather than a vapid exchange of hollow claims.

As I understand your position is that there is an inherent difference between wondering the implications behind the observable, measurable reality (what are clouds?) and the implications behind conceptual, theoretic constructs (what if there was a guy living on those clouds?) though do correct me if I'm entirely off-base here.

>>385513097
not much
it'll butterfly effect soon after simon and bitch are introduced

remember the technology is not well built to withstand distress in general

>>385512989
But that's wrong. Oh right, you're one of THOSE asshats
>M-my special snowflake definition and interpretation is the REAL one despite it having nothing to do with the origins and actual meaning of the terms

>>385513097
WAU's ark will last until the world turns into a ball of ash since the whole thing is an oversized cancer cell. Catherine's ark could last anywhere from a year to thousands of years depending on hardware lifetime or asteroids/gravity wells

>>385510596
The only ones that are in Vivarium are those directly connected. You are yourself connected once after Akers knocks you out.
Walking monsters are not connected and simply hunger for more gel.

>>385505191
thats subjective

>>385512939
I don't understand why people think there's much to talk about when it comes to the origin of SOMA. Sci-fi novels regarding the topics SOMA discusses have been so prolific in the last 100 years that I'm sure you can find reasonably big chunks of the story in many MANY works of fiction.

>>385512881
Didn't get how that was much of a dilemma either. The thought of that dude being stuck there with that thing on the outside. Sure, technically there's always a chance something will change in the situation regardless of his action and you can also claim he's protected for the moment, but it seems too unlikely and unnecessarily traumatizing for this chance to be worth it.

>>385505846
Too many? I'd say it's reasonably focused on a singular theme with only a few central questions worth asking. The only thing that really bothered me was the lack of details regarding the WAU and especially that rather unimpressive final interaction we got with it.

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>209 replied
You guys really discussing a walking simulator? Fucking lmao.

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>>385513492
yes, do you have a problem with it , fuckboy?
or are you gonna get the fuck out already

>>385509358
Because if you replace me with a perfect copy I'm still dead.

>>385513770
And no one will notice a difference, not even your perfect copy

>>385513867
but i will

>>385512841
Normally I think that saying "If you want a story go watch a movie or read a book" is a bit of a shitty argument but in the case of Her Story it actually seemed pretty justified. I never played it so I could be wrong but going by the trailers I didn't see what it offered that the massive number of police procedural tv shows currently airing don't also offer. It looked like something my parents would watch and then forget about after a week or two

>>385513867
I'd be dead, though.

>>385514021
>>385514031
No one cares that you're dead when a perfect copy is present. No one even knows

>>385514146
You asked why it matters if somebody replaces me with a perfect copy. It matters to me because I want to keep living, and I wouldn't continue to live if I'm dead.

>>385514146
i know, and it's all that matters to me, since my perception is the only one i have and care about

afterlife and god exist... this game is unrealistic

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>>385513631
Wish I could just end summer but I don't have such powers. So enjoy your stay while you still can and keep disscusing garbage youtubebait.

>>385514407
>Shitposting summerfag whining about shitpostig summerfags
The lack of self-awareness is staggering, or rather it would be if it wasn't so fucking common here.

>>385514391
This game is actually compatible with afterlife/god/whatever

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Daily reminder that Catherine was gay.

>>385514228
Whenever you go unconscious you stop "being".
What's to say you today was replaced by a perfect copy and the yesterday you died in the night?
There's no perpetual state of being awake. So being copied and destroyed is no different than going to sleep and waking up.

>>385513212
>I make the claim there is no difference, you make the claim there are differences.
I already said that the *subject matter* is the difference and you even agreed with it. Not sure why you're now doing this spiel. I responded to your claim that theological philosophy doesn't exist by pointing out that it does. Do you really want me to quote Boethius or Augustine to demonstrate that there is indeed such a thing as philosophy that deals with theological concepts? Is this something for which you honestly require evidence?

>As I understand your position is that there is an inherent difference between wondering the implications behind the observable, measurable reality (what are clouds?) and the implications behind conceptual, theoretic constructs (what if there was a guy living on those clouds?)
No, that's very wrong. I don't distinguish between the observable and measurable on one hand and conceptual and theoretical constructs on the other (not in this context anyway), but rather between subsets of philosophy that deal with ideas and concepts with a truth value that *can* be established, and those whose can not.

If this distinction sounds confusing, it's really quite simple. If you make a claim in, say, some subset of theoretical philosophy, let's say you construct a highly abstract thought experiment that will never actually be recreated in real life, then the results of this "experiment" can still have a legitimate, determinable truth value if they can be checked for adherence to the thought experiment's premises and internal logic. It's even easier for less abstract, more materialistic philosophy, because then you can just do an actual, empirical test.

CONTD, COMMENT TOO LONG

>>385514794
yeah and maybe if I close my eyes the world stops existing

>>385508618
you may not know who came first but still, one came first and not the other

>>385514901
Theological philosophy, however, occupies a blind spot in between; a blind spot that results in its claims relating to actual, observable real life, but without the benefit of testability or even an agreed upon standard for its purportedly ontological premises. Theo phil relies on inherently non-empirical premises but with supposed empirical implications. Basically, theo phil wants to understand X and even explain X, without having a coherent, let alone testable concept of what X actually is, while *also* insisting on X being more than something like a factor in a thought experiment, but rather an actual, ontological thing. It's bad (or rather hopeless) epistemology, and just useless/fruitless philosophy all around.

>>385514794
Incorrect. There is a base form of consciousness present at all time.

>>385514901
>>385514973
By the way, if this comes off as too jargon-heavy, I can explain myself in simpler terms, too, if necessary. I use the lingo just out of convenience and habit.

>>385514794
If you define "death" to be "an interruption of consciousness, either temporary or permanent," then yes. If you define death to be "a permanent loss of consciousness" then no, sleep is not death. In my opinion, a definition of "death" that includes sleep and the effects of anesthesia is a bad definition.

Anyway, you don't even completely lose consciousness when you sleep. You dream during some of it, and your body continues to keep track of the passage of time.

>>385509565
your viewpoint is also subjective

>>385509526
That's pretty fucking cool. Thanks

>>385514901
>I already said that
Because of the fact that this "difference" is trivial and irrelevant to the argument as a whole, which revolved around the concept that "theological philosophy" was INHERENTLY different rather than simply different through the subject it addresses.

Your understanding of theological philosophy seems to be rather different than what I'm used to, and what you're describing is a religious misinterpretation of philosophy rather than actual theological philosophy.

Theological philosophy as I understand it revolves around interpreting the implications behind creationism and/or all powerful deities, and how it relates to reality, sociology etc. Asking questions like "What, if anything, is the soul?" or "What, if anything, is the effect of prayer on a divine entity?"

What you describe Theo Phil doing isn't philosophy at all, his antics revolve around finding excuses to believe a belief rather than answer legitimate questions.

>>385515095
The Jargon mainly gets confusing due to things possibly getting lost in translation, but I'm sure we can work it out.

The main thing seems to be a disagreement on the definition of theological philosophy, and arguments of this sort tend to get a bit messy, especially since things like conceptually defining philosophy in general is a tricky and heavily contested affair.

>>385514903
>>385515029
>>385515139

I was 12 years old when I had a bad concussion. I was unconscious for 2 days and there's only blackness of those two days. I suddenly just woke up from the hospital bed and didn't know what I was doing there.
I've been able to piece together a few moments of the day before I hit my head but nothing more.
There was no base form on consciousness nor did I dream anything.
I reckon that's what death feels like, just nothing.

>>385515537
There are many forms and ways in which people act even without consciousness, sleepwalking is an extremely common example and there are many more, the consciousness is not vital to human performance in the slightest as people have been tested to be able to perform complex tasks without consciously doing so, or completing an activity they were carrying out even when losing consciousness midway through.

The exact details and specifics of what consciousness is and means are still being worked out, but what we do know is that this isn't unique or inherent to humanity, or essential to it.

I fucking love those threads, makes /v/ a little less shitty every once in a while

>>385510309
>not copying yourself to overnumber the monsters and destroy them
>not transforming Earth into a Simmon Paradise

>>385515958
>Gets traumatized over ONE copy
>Implying he'd do it several times more

don't you need more rotten corpses stuffed in suits to make more simons? the flaw in the plan reveals itself really quickly due to the fairly realistic method presented here and just what it really requires

>>385515958
I never understood why he didn't just create an army of Simons once he found out about the copying process

Might just be me, but when he said "There can't be two Simons," I remember thinking,"Why not?"

>>385515958
>implying Simmon would be smart enough to know how to copy himself without the help of Catherine

>>385516169
don't you need more rotten corpses stuffed in suits to make more simons?
Not really, using robots as bodies is fine too

>>385515537
>blackness
Exactly you knew there was blackness, in death there is literally nothing at all

>>385516179
that's like the first thing I would do
he could have rebuild the station by himself and then launch the ark, that's not like they don't hve time

>>385515856
Yes, people can perform tasks out of muscle memory. But isn't consciousness the defining thing of being a human? If you're doing things out of muscle memory you're just a drone performing tasks.
Consciousness may not be essential to humanity, but it sure is essential in being a human.
Early-onset Alzheimer's is in my opinion death. Not at first, but were it to let progress many years, it is death. It turns you into a broken record player that keeps playing the same part over and over again.

>>385516483
Then who makes new robots once you run out of useable ones?

Also, the ark simulation falls apart and descends into chaos pretty fucking fast once all the brainscan people realize they can't reproduce. There's no brainscans for the 'babies' and since they're all existing as data, they're just there themselves as a fucking model without any dick or cunt polygons and eventually someone is going to clip through the buildings or glitch out

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>>385505191

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTcfDX1NvMk

>>385513448
tell me then of other works of fiction with these topics and that take place in an underwater lab throughout the whole story basically

>>385507184
The WAU was trying to figure out how to recreate human life, it wouldve succeeded with enough time.

>>385516483
>>385516169
you can even upload yourself into a pda like Catherine

>>385516970
kek be stuck cliping and glitching into a wall forever
else they can't reproduce but i imagine they can stimulate pleasure

>>385516970

The point of the Ark is to preserve their memories and history until aliens eventually find it and hopefully revive the human race in robot bodies. The simulation is just secondary.

frictional games has 2 unannounced projects

so whats next?

>>385516930
>Muscle memory
No anon, conscious activities like deliveries, having a conversation, shit like that.
>Isn't consciousness the defining thing of being a human
No, animals have it as well and it has fuck all to do with humanity. Similarly it has been pretty much verified that animals also have egos.

>>385508270
COUNTER-ARGUMENT

>>385517586
>The point of the Ark is to preserve their memories and history until aliens eventually find it and hopefully revive the human race in robot bodies

Nah. Nobody was counting on that. The only reason they did the Ark thing is because they did not really have anything better to do.

>>385511080
Nah man it's just your brain its ok :)

>>385509216
But they still require new chemicals to funtion and rebuild/build organelle. The cells might stay in the same place but parts of it get replaced throughout your lifetime

>>385516847
With blackness I mean nothing, I wasn't seeing black when unconscious. Only because I woke up again I can understand to some degree what death would supposedly feel like. That's the reason I wouldn't be that hesitant to be replaced by another copy.
>>385517702
Are we talking about full blown state of unconsciousness or just state of sleep? I'm aware people can have conversations in their sleep, I've had plenty with my siblings. Driving to your destination while sleeping is akin to deliveries, but couldn't that be attributed to muscle memory? You remember the destination and have done it before. If a car suddenly stopped in front of you while you're driving in your sleep state, you would just crash into it because your mind doesn't take the current surrounding into play, only the ones you've experienced before.
>animals have it as well
Yes, and I apologize, I worded my sentence poorly there. In a confrontation between a state of consciousness and unconsciousness for humans, the state of consciousness is what makes us human. I'm not downplaying the unconscious mind, just that being aware is in my opinion the defining thing.

>Anon2 in the first suit, Anon3 in the second suit, and Anon4 competing with Catherine for PDA space
>all of us working together to put down the rogue machines and helping the WAU not be such a fuckup with preserving life
Fuck the Ark. This is what my original self from the past would have wanted. Or what I want now.

>>385516930
The defining thing about being a human is theory of mind: knowing that others know things you dont know. A lot of animals are conscious but only humans know that others are as well. Its the reason why you can teach a monkey sign language but it wont ever ask you a question. Its because it doesnt know that you know.
Humans arent that special, the only thing that makes us different is knowing others are similair as us.

>>385507919

The copy is only you at the moment of creation, and from there on out it's a separate entity.

If you copy a paper, then alter both of them differently and then destroy the original, you don't have the original anymore. Thus, the copy of simon is not simon. There is no "continuity" in concious existance.

>>385504931
AFTER YOU'VE SCRUBBED ALL THE FLOORS IN HYRULE THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT MERCY TAKE HIM AWAY

>>385519494
>and Anon4 with Catherine for PDA sex