ITT: Games that live in their sequel's shadow.

>>385434515
TTYD is better overall but the Original has a handful of things that it does better. Level design and replayability are highest on said list.

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Nah son Paper Mario is great in its own right.

It's got style and charm that will last forever. I'm not saying TTYD doesn't have this as well but n64 paper mario has enough to warrant its own position as one of the greatest.

I still replay both of these games occasionally.

>>385434672
TTYD had so much potential that gets ruined by the forced backtracking in almost every fucking chapter.

>>385434672
>Replayability

Highly disagree, I've replayed TTYD at least 11 times, where as I've only played PM64 about 7. They're both great but TTYD has the edge strictly due to some of the bullshit parts in 64 like crystal king and shyguys toybox

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And rightly so. GTA 1 is shit.

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it plays fairly different from melee, which released, what, only two years after?

>>385434907
>Implying 1 isn't LEAGUES above 2.

Dark Souls.jpg

>>385435164
Fuck melee64 is infinitely more fun and replayable simply because it doesnt have all the bullshit nonsense melee established for its sporting event nonsense. In 64 you can have fun. in melee you either wavedash or get killed.

>>385435170
It is, it's insanely good and a way better game than 2, but 2 and 3 became way more popular and what the series is known for because "LOL GTA 3 AMIRITE?"

>>385435089
I should clarify my big issue is the backtracking in TTYD and the two "mystery" chapters. The mystery chapters especially simply aren't that fun on replays. Glitz Pit has too much padding between fights and the train has barely any gameplay.

>>385434798
>The entirety of Chapter 2
>All of Chapter 4 after you beat Doopliss 1
>A good chunk of Keelhaul Key
>General White
Those are the only notably bad examples I can think of off the top of my head, I'm more fine with the backtracking if it fits naturally into the chapter (i.e. Schwonk Fortress to Hooktail Castle)

>>385435089
Don't forget shit like the Flavio glitch, that alone made me do another playthrough

SPM is objectively better than both

>>385435417
>Better
No.
Its on par at best.

>>385435170
>>385435336
Actually, the two of you are incorrect.

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>>385434515
This is an odd choice, but it depends on if you think World is better or not. I like 3 better, but a majority of people I know prefer World. more.

>>385435417
You can get the fuck out of here.

>>385435336
What

>>385435417
super is worse than sticker star and killed the series

>>385435417
I'd agree if SPM actually had a fun world to explore instead of world 1-1, 1-4 nonsense that game is the absolute definition of linear

>>385435523
I prefer world but see 3 as a largely overlooked gem. This definitely fits.

>>385435303
>melee64

good one.

>>385435417
Explain your reasoning anon
>>385435563
I actually could bring myself to finish SPM and even do the pits of 100 trials and all the sidequests and shit, I gave up on sticker star partway into whatever the fuck the desert place was called

>>385435089
Crystal King is one of the most unejoyable fights in the console series if you're ill-equipped

>>385435303
But 64 is even more punishing than Melee. Watch any match with people who know what they're doing. It's ridiculous how easily you can die in that game.

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>>385435651
>The most popular mario game in existence by name alone
>Overlooked

>>385435685
>Whatever the desrt place was called
World 2. Literally thats it.

>>385435740
Compared to world or 64, yeah. 3 is overlooked.

>>385435417
No, it's a completely different genre of game and not comparable to them at all

No one in this thread has played Pro Mode, and that's a mistake.

It's an actually good difficulty romhack.

>>385435303
>wahh people are better than me

>>385435854
Are you retarded?

>>385435740
That's why it was probably strange, but 64 and World tower over it in terms of popularity.
Didn't we have a gay poll at one point where we put all the marios against each other?

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>>385435854
...they even made a movie about it.

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>>385435854
What retarded bubble do you live in? are all your assumptions based on /v/ alone? SMB3 is a holy grail for pretty much anyone who grew up in the 80's, its in the goddamn smithsonian. EVERYONE knows SMB3. world is the niche one by comparison, and really? 64? only gamers know 64 as a big thing. Most adults don't even know what a 64 is.

>>385435553
Jak 2 is only what it is because of GTA 3 and Naughty Dog's retardation

>>385435978
Are you?

>>385436114
Yes, but you didn't answer my question

>>385436090
>>385436083
>>385435978
Well, would it be fair to say that 2 was overshadowed then?

>>385436093
No, in fact, you are wrong.

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>>385435907
>spike room in tubba blubba manor

The hack is great so far but this shitty room nearly gave me an aneurysm

>>385435854
2 (usa) might the overlooked one between all the shitters screeching "muh lazy romhack", but then again i would never use the world "overlooked" about any main series mario game
saying 3, world or 64 are underrated or overlooked is just plain fucking ridiculous

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>tfw all your known for is your dumb boxart

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>>385436420

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This is the only true answer.

>>385436319
That's literally what happened though

>>385436948
Curious question, did they just retcon 1 entirely or something? I've been looking to start Timesplitters myself, but I can't decide what system to go for. Ideally PS2 ebcause the whole trilogy is present, but I hear GC/Xbox are ebtter quality at the cost of noth having 1.

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>>385434515
I played PM and TTYD one after the other for the first time a few months back and I genuinely think the first game was better, I feel like TTYD is a bit overrated

>>385437393
I'll agree with it beign over rated, but doesn't stop it from being my favorite game.

>>385436420

It's barely even changed...

>>385437393
This

>>385435303
I've never fought anyone actually good at melee until after the documentary. Before that there was like 15 years of casual play. You get sick of it after a while, but its still way better casually than both brawl and sm4sh.

>>385437765
except it makes the room complete guess work especially considering the fact the spikes can immediately come back up as soon as they go down

>>385438214

That's just how that room has always worked, anon.

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>>385438407
what the fuck are you talking about? the spikes came up on a timer in the original, the hack makes them randomized my dude

>>385438968

You should play the original again.

>>385439034
https://youtu.be/T707OwJEgC0?t=128

no, i think maybe you should

>>385434515
Age of Empires

>>385435089
>Crystal King
>Shy guys toybox
So some of the best parts in 64 are shitty to you?
yet you'll defend that fucking shitty pirate backtrack chapter.
or the part with Pianta mafia section
honestly the amount of backtracking in TTYD loses the humor after the 2nd time an entire section of a chapter has you backtracking.
>dooPliss
GO TO TOWN FROM CHAPEL
fight dooPliss
GO BACK TO CHAPEL
Grab p
GO BACK TO DOOPLISS
GO BACK TO CHAPEL
FIGHT DOOPLISS
it is honestly horror; but the pirate chapter is even worst, though bombarty is best party member.

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>>385434515

>>385439452
>Shitty Pirate chapter
Keyhaul key is one of the best chapters in the game sir. Sorry you seem to lack patience for the simple things. If you're this impatient you shouldn't be playing any RPG. RPGs take a while, they're designed to let you gain as much leveling as you need at a slow pace. YOu're the only one here to blame if you're trying to rush through it and come out ill prepared at the end.
>Bombarty
*Bobbery.

>>385440474
Do you mean KH1 lives in 2's shadow?

>>385440689
Yes, I realized I fucked up as soon as I posted the picture

I still kinda love KH1 more than 2 tho

>>385435907
>This isn't so badso far.
>get to Koopa Fortress

FUCK

Half-Life.

There's a whole generation of players that played the second but never the first.

>>385440821
Just wait until Dry Dry Desert

>>385440580
>Keyhaul key is one of the best chapters in the game sir

You might wanna replay it sometime soon. The chapter in a nutshell.

>arrive at island
>go deep in the jungle and find bobbery
>go back to flavio
>flavio tells you he wants a coconut
>go all the way through the jungle again to find a coconut
>take it back to flavio
>flavio gives you cola
>bring cola to bobbery
>go back to flavio once again
>flavio tells you how to get into dungeon
>go all the way back to the dungeon entrance, where bobbery was
>complete dungeon

Do you see how much backtracking that is?

>>385436948
why would a robot need nipples

>>385437393

Same I think TTYD is placed a bit too highly on a pedestal. I think PM64 is better and really I like Color Splash more than TTYD as well.

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>>385441148
>You might want to replay ti sometime soon.
Did. February, Playthrough number #14 on memory card 2, 256 blocks. Try me.
>Don't you see how much backtracking that is?
I see how much gameplay it is, yes. I'm mfifed, I thoguht the point of an RPG was to have fun battles and level up while solving puzzles? Why are you complaining about there being too much gameplay?

You honestly sound like a whiner, and it's cool if the game isn't for you, but don't be a nark and drag down levels just because you can't enjoy something that clearly everyone else does.

>>385434515
But everybody loves this game?

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>>385440580
>Keyhaul key is one of the best chapters in the game sir

>>385441697
you are beyond autistic

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>>385441697
>too much gameplay
>literally just backtracking through the same exact location 8 times

>>385435417
This, SPM got
>Best Gimmick
>Best Music
>Best Characters
>Best Story
>Best Companion

Anons are just on denial, because they can't deal with the fact that a platformers did better than their RPGs

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Will they ever do a remake of PM64 with Color Splash's visuals but retaining the original gameplay?

you guys forget they make you go back to hooktail castle like three times for sidequests
and that's not even half of the optional backtracking you need to do for 100%

>>385441813
The word you're looking for is "Thorough"

>>385441841
What you call backtracking the rest of the world calls exploring. But to each their own I suppose.

>>385435170
It isn't. Jak 2 and Jak 3 are the best in the series. J&D was just another boring platformer with pretty colors.

>>385441843
>Best characters
>A bunch of shapes that do basic functions with no emotional attatchments what-so-ever

PFTAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHBWAAAAAAGHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHHEHEHEHEHEHHEHEEEHEHHEEEHEHEEEHOOOHOOOHOHHOHOHOHOHOHOOHOHOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIE

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>>385441969
>What you call backtracking the rest of the world calls exploring

No anon, exploring is when you travel to a new location to find new things.

Backtracking is the exact opposite of exploring. The first time you go through an area, you explore it. Every time after that is not exploration, it's just tedium.

>>385435089
>replayed baby's first rpg 18 times
What's wrong with you?

>>385441969
>exploring
Exploring is discovering a new part of the level
Backtracking like in Keelhaul Key is just walking back and forth through the same level except doing something slightly different each time.

>>385437393
I've replayed both recently and while I think the first is overall better, TTYD has an edge in battle mechanics and plot and that's enough for a lot of people to prefer it over the first. Like, you can get Quick Change at the start of Chapter 1, you can have multiple of the same badges, partners have HP and can use items, partners have their own set of badges they can equip and so on and so forth.

>>385441148
I fucking hated Boggly Woods for doing this shit.
>go through the forest to get to the tree
>go back and go to Flurrie's house
>go all the way back to the beginning of the area to get the necklace
>go all the way back to Flurrie's house
>finally return back to the tree

>>385441969
There's no exploring to be done because the whole area connects in a singular straight line. You're just shitposting, aren't you?

>>385435303
>judging a game's quality based on it's playerbase
when will you learn. it's not melee's fault that it's community is filled with tourneyfags who don't know how to have some wholesome fun.

youre even more of a fag for not enjoying technical movement. going fast is top tier vidya fun.

>>385435907
I'm about to beat it, actually. The second half of the game was disappointingly similar to the original, I was expecting some more changes. But the changes to the battles were enough to keep me interested, definitely a very fun replay.

I'm not touching Kent C. Koopa with a 10 foot pole, by the way. 200 HP and no weaknesses?

>>385441968
To be fair, backtracking is pretty much expected to 100% an rpg. In fact, I can't think of a single rpg that doesn't force you to backtrack in order to 100%.

>>385442105
Pretty sure he's talking about the villains, Tippi, and maybe Luvbi, not the awful partners.

If they're removing Virtual Console the Nintendo Online better have every fucking exclusive from the WiiU backwards.

>>385442135
>Finding new things isn't considered exploring.
YOu seem to be missing the entire point here. If you take the same route to nd from work every day, but find something new along the way, its a new adventure. It's not inherently backtracking just ebcause you followed a familiar route. New discoveries are made daily, and they open new posibilities.
>>>385442213
No, i'm not you. I don't rile people up for entertainment, I just defend my claims. sorry if that offends you.

>>385435854
maybe to people not from the nes generation. I don't think you realize how fucked it was when it came out

>>385442348
It was simpler in the first game, because the pipes to towns were very close to the entrance to the sewers and you had speedy spin to seriously speed up your travelling. Koopa Koot would've been actual hell if he were in TTYD.

>>385442434
Alright then, tell me. What changes while walking back and forth in Keelhaul Key besides the change in NPC dialogues and obtaining Bobbery?

>>385441697

If you played it so recently I don't believe you didn't notice the padding. There's a very common pattern they use in almost every chapter to artificially lengthen it. They tend to place an object you need and a location you need to enter or a character you have to speak to at opposite ends of the chapters so that you're required to to walk back and forth nearly the full length of any non-dungeon section of each the chapter atleast once just to progress in the game.

>Chapter 1: Hooktail's Castle is at the left side of Petal Meadows right next to the entrance, The Sun and Moon Key stones are at Schownk Fortress at the furthest possible location from it and you have to backtrack all the way back to the start just to enter Hooktails castle.

>Chapter 2: Flurrie's house is at a dead end in the background located at the rightmost edge of Boggly Woods, the Shadow Sirens are hanging out with Flurrie's pearl necklace at the second leftmostscreen screen of the chapter.

>Chapter 3: The chapter is just a handful of buildings so it's the exception.

>Chapter 4: You need to walk between Twilight Town and Creepy Steeple five times to complete the chapter.

>Chapter 5: You have to go from the encampment to near the bridge/entrance of the cave and back atleast three times before you can enter it. Once to save some of the crew, a 2nd time to find bobbery sleeping and get the chuckola cola, a third time to wake bobbery up and get Flavio to go to the cave entrance with you, a fourth time if you didn't pick up any Coconuts to trade for the chuckola cola.

>Chapter 6: The Bob-bomb Family are in the left most room on the Excess Express. The bob-omb child wants the autograph of the Engineer who is at on the rightmost screen at the front of the train.

>Chapter 7: General White

Take away the backtracking the game would be about half the length.

>>385442434
>If you take the same route to nd from work every day, but find something new along the way, its a new adventure

But if you thoroughly explore the path the first time then there's nothing new to find, you fucking autist.

Keelhaul key is a straight path with minimal secrets. Finding them all takes one, maybe two, trips. The other six times you go through it is not exploration, it's just fucking busywork.

>>385436948
>almost a tech demo

There's a reason why no one ever talks about TS1

>>385442434
This is really just roundabout semantic nonsense. The arbitrary relabeling of terms does nothing to actually change the design problems in TTYD's levels and story structure; just because you personally call this shit exploring by your own definition doesn't suddenly make it less bad, it just means you're dressing it up with a new word that has a more positive connotation.

>>385442617
>Get coconut
>Gain a level on the way back,
>Dialogue
>Go back, search for Chukola cola
>Dialouge
>Give flavio coconut (Or keelmango)
>etc.
Also you seem to be quantifying the entirety of Keyhaul key as the beach stretch to skull rock, Which is incorrect as you're leaving out the entirety of Pirrate's grotto which is anything but linear.

>>385442627
>Take away the backtracking the game would be about half the length.
Yes, and? I don't beleive I ever stated I cared about length of the entire game did I? I run TTYD at aproximately 16 hour playthroughs, it's a short and fun JRPG that's easily revisted, same as PM64. Why should it need to be 80+ hours in your book? I have Tales of games for that.

>>385443045
>moving the goalposts by mentioning Pirate's Grotto when all the problems being discussed pertain to everything prior to the dungeon

>>385443191
You're the onlt one quantifying here sir. Keyhaul Key includes the entirety of the island. It is the name of the island and the location in which we are discussing. Ergo, Pirate's grotto is included.

>>385443517
It's a shame that the backtracking makes the first section of Keelhaul Key much longer than the infinitely better second half.

>>385443607
Dinner before desert. I prefer it because it makes getting to the part all the better. Buit then again, I'm very tolerant when it comes to anything in videogames. I think the only time I ever got legitimately frustrated with a game was the test of strength in Starfox adventure.

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It's literally Warband but worse

>>385443517
>this chapter is flawed because of all the tedium needed to enter the dungeon
>wow why are you ignoring the dungeon, it's almost like the problems being discussed have nothing to do with it
Nobody brought up Pirate's Grotto because it's not relevant to the discussion. The subject at hand is the annoying backtracking at the start of the chapter, there's no reason to discuss Pirate's Grotto in this context as anything other than a non-sequitur, you fucking autist. Stop moving the goalposts.

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>>385434515

>>385444097
Don't blame me for your inadequency to properly explain your logic and reasoning. YOu simply said "Keyhaul key" The name of the island. Common sense and logic dictate this to include the entirety of said island. If you're going to throw a tantrum ove rthis I sugest you learn to ebtter choose your words next time.

>>385444129
Not without reason

Dark souls improved on literally everything Demon's Souls did, with the exception of npcs. I can remember every npc in demon's souls and the last time I played it was like 2009

>>385444361
>Don't blame me for your inadequency to properly explain your logic and reasoning. YOu simply said "Keyhaul key"
First off, maybe you should consider that there's more than two people in this thread.

Second of all, even if I had made that statement, the point wouldn't change regardless. The argument revolves around the flawed design of the chapter. The existence of the dungeon doesn't suddenly cause these flaws to magically evaporate.

>>385435417
>SPM
>game
rofl

>>385443732
>Dinner before desert. I prefer it because it makes getting to the part all the better.

I'd rather not regurgitate dinner and eat it 3 times before dessert.

>>385435854
retard

>>385444649
>The argument revolves around the flawed design of the chapter.
Yes, and half of this "Chapter" is Pirate's grotto, and as I beleive you said and I quote: "mentioning Pirate's Grotto when all the problems being discussed pertain to everything prior to the dungeon" This statement implies there are no issues with the pirate's grotto, which means that to say if the pirate's grotto were indeed quantified as "half of the dungeon" (More like 70% seeing as the Lord Crump/X-naut battle with Cortex and the black skull takes place 30 meteres off the coast,. and therefore no longer on Keyhaul key) That would imply that half of the chapter is indeed, not flawed, which in hindsight the island segment of keyhaul key is barely half, let alone 30%, which means the other half wins out in this argument.

>>385443045
>Yes, and? I don't beleive I ever stated I cared about length of the entire game did I? I run TTYD at aproximately 16 hour playthroughs, it's a short and fun JRPG that's easily revisted, same as PM64. Why should it need to be 80+ hours in your book? I have Tales of games for that.

Just that a lot of the areas in Color Splash are the same size as TTYD levels yet there's over 30 of them and that game is like 30 hours long even though there isn't 30 minutes dedicated to story between every chapter and you don't have to backtrack on foot to the hub after each chapter either.

It kind of feels like they were short changing people with TTYD.

>>385434515
But that's the best one.

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>/v/ hates TTYD now

Oh for fucks sake. What popular "youtuber' played it and made a spectacle of it now?

>>385443732
>Dinner before desert
Wouldn't be an argument on /v/ without a food analogy.

>>385445564

Since when does not thinking a game is the best mean hating it? It's not a binary choice.

>>385445240
>Yes, and half of this "Chapter" is Pirate's grotto, and as I beleive you said and I quote: "mentioning Pirate's Grotto when all the problems being discussed pertain to everything prior to the dungeon" This statement implies there are no issues with the pirate's grotto
No, that literally just means that the problems being specifically discussed pertain to elements that aren't the dungeon. The wording doesn't remotely imply that the dungeon is void of problems, just that any such issues aren't the ones being talked about.

I'm not necessarily saying there are, but your inability to parse this is troubling, to say the least.

Moreover, the rest of this is just an inane evaluation that acts like length is the only valid benchmark in this context, while completely ignoring that things like scale exist.

>>385445705
>A large biome filled with sand and granular rock particles is food to you
What the fuck kind of third world shithole do you live in?

>>385445705
Fuck off cactus

>>385435854
You need to be over 18 to post here,

>>385436948
TS1 is pretty shit

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>We will never get another normal paper mario again
It's not fair. Both of these games are so fucking good.

>>385446000
>Moreover, the rest of this is just an inane evaluation that acts like length is the only valid benchmark in this context, while completely ignoring that things like scale exist.

If length wasn't an important factor they probably never would have forced the backtracking in before the cave, it's not like anything new happens on the screen between the events.

>>385442136
Babys first RPG is objectively better than 99% of rpgs out there
Especially JRPGs

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>>385446564
>A JRPG is better than 99% of JRPGs out there
>Especially JRPGs

>>385442315
>Kent C. Koopa

do people really have that much difficulty with him? normally I put him to sleep with one of the star powers, then Power Jump/Bow's Fan attack him the rest of the battle, then repeat the Sleep as soon as he wakes up.

>>385446842
You said RPGs i specified both RPGs and JRPGs you sperg

>>385434515

But what other game lets you bake a cake for 4 and half years?

>>385446956
Mario RPGs ARE JRPGs you "sperg'

>>385442375
They're not gonna get rid of Virtual Console

>>385447027
>baking a cake
>not hitting a block for 416 years

>>385447232
>tfw I did this and my game didn't crash
Stryder is a hack

>>385446847
Kent C. Koopa is easy in regular Paper Mario, you can permasleep him and beat him up easily. In Pro Mode, damage is doubled, he's immune to sleep and has 200 HP.

>>385435417
I agree only because you could kill yourself by simply saying no. Any game that allows you to tell your partner to fuck off you won't use the space helmet and you proceed to suffocate in space is an instant 10/10 for me.

>>385436284
That's just Doki Doki Panic. If you mean the real SMB2, then I would agree that it's overlooked, but only because of all these gaijin thinking the American one isn't just a ROM hack.

>>385447827
>Will you help save the multiverse from this all-devouring hole in reality?
>Nah
>you actually get a game over

>>385441905
No. They'll make it easier and change things to fit the generic Mario universe more.

>>385447094
I never said it wasnt you sperg, it is still superior to most regardless.

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>>385445564
Game Grumps

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>>385435387
>Flavio glitch
Shit was hilarious