Explain this.

>>385387462
It's trying to break down what is happening to the player as well as what the player is doing into the simplest of terms.

A wizard did it.

>>385387462
vision field
player
big lava meanie
area hidden of vision because of:
a) mysterious fog
b) super atmospherical pressure
c) magical spell
d) all of the above
huh?
what?
wtf
tower of disbelief
magical lift hidden volcano
huh?
huh?

what the fuck are you guys talking about

This is a whole new level of shitposting...

>>385387995
They're explaining the picture for the OP. Duh.

>time is convoluted, I ain't gotta explain shit

>>385387462
If time is screwey, why wouldn't space be screwey?

The tiny little wall preventing you from getting to Drangleic castle is much more egregious.

>>385387462
How come people think this is silly but don't care about the vertical nonsense in DaS1? It feels like you guys look for something new to shit on with DaS2 every day.

>>385388283
>How come people think this is silly but don't care about the vertical nonsense in DaS1?
There is literally no vertical nonsense in 1. Thats why people fucking love it so much, the level design is 10/10

>>385388283
>something new

>>385388283
Because you can pull collision data from DaS1, and it forms a perfectly cohesive map.
There's only a slight exaggeration of verticality with the great hollow. But the player doesn't notice, because it still makes logical sense.

>>385387462
because dark souls II was a game hastily patched together in 6-8 months with whatever assets they had made prior to bamco showing up at their doorstep ready to anally pound to project

>>385387462
It was already explained in detail long time ago.
Dev team changes and somewhat failed attempt to salvage the train wreck.

>>385388086
convolute my dick bro

>vision ahead
>try shitposting

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>>385387462
BANDAI Namco

>>385390049
sorry can't be done unless it's at least 3 inches

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PC player here. Are you console kiddies still dealing with bad field of view?

>"Have you noticed something strange about this kingdom? It seems to defy any mapping, despite my attempts. Such strange geography..."
>"It's as if...space...and, and perhaps even time were...convoluted."
>"Now that's a ridiculous thought, isn't it? Heh hehe heh..."

There I just saved DaS 2.

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>>385390350

goddammit

>>385390350
But it doesn't really feel like we're moving supernaturally through the world.

Its more like some parts of the map have been cut out completely and we just skip through it.

>>385387995
Dark Souls 2. These stupid shits are trying to justify the bad level design even though the sky and clouds are clearly visible. They expect nobody to remember the levels themselves and assume there's just fog of war covering the areas that shouldn't be there.

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>>385390232

>>385390346
>i'am ignorant faggot yet that won't stop me from flaunting my retardation openly
ok

>>385390350
>its shit on purpose
Wow its still not satisfying, and in that case pretty fucking pretentious to boot.

>>385388283
>vertical nonsense in DaS1
Like...?

>>385387462
They wanted to do what other games would with an area transition. If the two areas were in a game like Zelda you would come up to a very long hallway that upon walking down it would just start a loading screen that ends with you in the keep. But because Souls games use seamless transitions besides warps they didn't do that and it came out all wrong.

>>385390610
so we add roaming phantoms, like the stairwell descending in the first game's kiln

>>385390714
so it's right in line with video game writing as a whole, woot!

>>385390621
>bad level design
nonsensical geography =/= bad level design you absolute brainlet. look at any good platformer game (you know, where good level design is required) and tell me that the geography makes sense

>>385391694
>nonsensical geography =/= bad level design you absolute brainlet.
Sounds like excuses for bad level design to me. It's funny how whenever someone is delusional, they attribute their delusions to higher intelligence.

>>385387462
>what it feels like
That's not what it feels like, that's literally what it fucking is.

>>385388283
The only example of vertical nonsense I can think of is the Great Hollow, and that's a stretch.

>>385392126
Ash Lake is a little weird, but I suppose it's supposed to be.

Everyone's always comparing DS1 and DS2 in map design, but what about 3? It kind of gets around it with warps.

>>385391908
You're still an idiot, but I'll let you redeem yourself. Let's say it truly is bad level design. How does it hamper your gameplay? Not the gameplay experience, but the gameplay. How would the gameplay be changed if the geography made sense?

>>385392646
>How does it hamper game play

DS2 has the worst game play out of the series.

>>385392462
Because in three you literally have paarts of the world being deleted and kingdoms converging by plot.

>>385392716
You're not listening.
How does this area's level design hamper your gameplay?

Can I be real for a second?

This community is fucking atrocious right now. You're all acting like a bunch of whiny, entitled little babies.

A tiny team of people made an animated adventure for you to embark on. They made it for YOU, and they're going to wake up tomorrow morning and see that instead of enjoying it, this community of "fans" picked out the 3 or 4 things that weren't perfect and are using that to fucking riot.

Guess what? The game was never going to be perfect. It was never going to live up to your hype. It was never going to be everything you'd ever want in a movie.

What it WAS going to be was an impossibly epic adventure filled with action and hard shit. I just played it for an hour and a half and it was exactly that. What more do you want?

Is it simple? Sure. Is it repetitive? Maybe. Is the hitboxes and the move sets questionable and the structure unclear? Sure, fine.

But holy shit what do these people OWE YOU?

How fucking entitled do you have to be to have the adventure of a lifetime inside a CD and then say "yeah but…"

We should all be fucking weeping in our chairs right now at the sheer size and scale of the achievement. We should be showering the people behind this thing with the praise they deserve for pulling off one of the most inspiring game in recent memory.

From Software doesn't owe you a good time. Yet they gave you 40 HOURS worth.

If you have the fucking audacity to complain about it then you don't deserve it and you were never fans in the first place.

>>385392462
In 3 you can see every single area in the game from the ledge after Vordt as well as how they interconnect with each other.

If you could see a gigantic floating lava area in the sky connected by an elevator to the ground from Majula, people wouldn't be as rightfully pissed about how stupid the transition is in 2

>>385392646
>How does it hamper your gameplay?
We're clearly discussing level design and the lengths people go to to defend their shitty game. It seems you're having trouble staying on topic, speaking of idiots.

>>385392826
I'm actually not the same guy.

The levels don't stop you from playing, like most games, but it doesn't stop it from being shit.

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>WOOOOOW NONE OF THE ENVIRONMENT DESIGN IN THIS BOOK ADDS UP
>rooms being bigger on the inside than the outside is fucking stupid
>I don't care if the author makes it clear that the nonsensical geometry is a theme, it's still fucking stupid because everything needs to be realistic or else it's shit
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

why didn't the elevator just go down

>>385393045
House of Leaves is about a space which is warped.

Dark Souls II is not.

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>>385392462
Most of the places can properly interconnect. You can for example see blight town's bog from firelink shrine but it's kinda tough.

Ash Lake is the only weird thing

Dark Souls 2's map collision is retarded as fuck and almost everything runs into each other.

>>385392972
This is the point I'm trying to make, though. It isn't the design of the level that bothers you, it's the geography. You could change the geography of the level and keep the level design exactly the same. You could make everything cuboid and simplify the colors (changing the geography) and it would still be a tower that goes up in flights to a new area, which is the level design.
The level design is perfectly valid unless it somehow interrupts or changes the gameplay. It's the geography that doesn't make any fucking sense.

>>385393117
>>385390350

>>385393045
>a book which is entirely about impossible space has impossible space in it

>a game that is not at all about impossible space and is instead about killing monsters because zombie curse has impossible space in it

inb4 DaS2 defense force shows up to proclaim how the game was actually about Impossible Space this whole time and it's just super deep you guys you don't even get it in this one item description it can be implied that space is impossible because our memories are the curse and the curse is just making it LOOK like the shitty volcano fortress level with the big generic lava monster is in a stupid place YOU JUST DON'T GET IT

>>385392851
I googled this pasta but didn't get any results but I refuse to believe anyone outside of reddit or neogaf is actually dumb enough to write this.

Dark souls 2 was not released for free out of the goodness of From's heart, it was a product that people paid full price for, they actually ARE entitled to a good time since that's what buying a videogame fucking means.

They took the criticism so much to heart that they released Scholar, dropped the B team for future games, and most damming of all made dark souls 3 almost a direct sequel to 1 with essentially zero reference whatsoever to 2 (outside of Earthen Peak reappearing in a place literally called the DREG HEAP in the final DLC.)

Their response to the shitshow response 2 got was to purge with fire almost every contribution to the series it gave. No more consumable healing items outside of divine blessings, no power stancing, they brought back blocking with offhand weapons, no more getting invaded while hollow, no more progressive loss of health from hollowing. And a hundred other changes that backtrack from explicit choices made in 2's development.

>>385393341
I don't think that's real dialog. I think he's suggesting a few quick lines that would justify all the weird bullshit.

>>385393313
>The level design is perfectly valid unless it somehow interrupts or changes the gameplay.
No, it has to obey its own logic, established by the game in other areas and even other games in the same series. The transfer from one to the other is jarring in terms of continuity, making it seem like a collection of areas instead of one cohesive world. Considering it's an RPG, this is just as important as any other aspect in level design. And also, considering how much mob shit the game throws at you, the game's actual level design leaves much to be desired.

>>385387462
illusory wall

>>385393364
>A game about how an entire universe is breaking down and collapsing in on itself while immortal zombies with weapons that weigh 5x their bodyweight and the ability to throw fire, lightning and dark magic run around killing undead kings and twisted abominations while consuming souls to increase their power
>BUT THE LEVEL DESIGN ISN'T CONSISTENT, THINGS DON'T WORK THAT WAY IN REAL LIFE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>385393841
This is bait

>>385393512
No, that is real dialogue, transcribed verbatim from an NPC whose entire purpose is to try and map the environments the player in DKS2 explores.

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>>385387462

>>385393423
I want to say that pasta was originally talking about No Man's Sky. I saw it here shortly after it first came out.

>>385393942

wow 10/10

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>meet someone irl who plays Souls
>"oh neat someone to talk about these games I enjoy with!"
>his favorite game is 2, he says
>mfw
>says he never finished 3
>his friends literally just carried him to Anor Londo and he got stuck there
>fuck it, jolly cooperation
>end up carrying him through the entirety of the game and the DLC, taking moments to explain all the while how DaS3 makes better design choices than 2
>finally finish the game
>"okay, now lets play Scholar"
>the game is so floaty and jank that we never make it past Iron Keep

Honestly, 2's level design is the least of its problems. It just feels bad and wrong to take any kind of action in this fucking game.

Walk cycles are floaty and goofy looking. Swinging your weapon feels nothing like any other souls game, feeling sticky and undynamic. Hitting enemies feels like it lacks impact no matter what weapon you use, and being hit feels the same, while somehow ALSO managing to feel like you're stunned for too long from even the tiniest nick.

Enemy animations are fucked, particularly in enemies like the Spider dudes in Tseldora, when you get hit out of nowhere during their death animation. Hollow soldiers run like fucking retards, and while Scholar fixes a lot of the Lazy-Suzan style spinning overhead attacks, it doesn't completely fix enemies who feel like they have no fucking openings between their constant onslaught of bullshit.

More time than not, the reason you get hit in DaS2 isn't because you made a bad call, but because there is no good call, or because shit is busted and you just have to live with it.

Honestly, people like >>385393841 annoy me the most. Like internal consistency isn't something that existed in the series, and in fact ALL good fiction, before DaS2 rolled around to take a big shit on the whole concept.

Giant swords and sorcery don't break the flow of the game because they are INTERNALLY CONSISTENT WITH THE SETTING. The volcano sitting on top of the windmill is not.

>>385393527
There we go. Now you're understanding what I'm saying.
The level design has to do with the placement of the mobs and items and the general shape of the level, not its aesthetics. The geography of the level is what this entire thread is about. I never thought the geography of DaS2 was particularly cohesive, but the level design itself is passable.

>>385387462
How about the underground waterway to Heide's Tower that is only 20m long when you walk down it, but when you surface and look behind you it's 2km?

>>385388283
Because all those areas such as Tomb of Giants, Izalith, and the Hollow can be seen clearly in the distance from other areas, and the way they are laid out and connect with one another is consistent and believable within the realm of the game's setting.

>>385394297
>How about the underground waterway to Heide's Tower that is only 20m long when you walk down it, but when you surface and look behind you it's 2km?

The entrance to Heide's is literally not even there when you look at it from Majula

>>385394413
You can throw Prism Stones all over Majula, walk over to Heides, and look back and you'll see the Stones floating nowhere near the spire up on the cliff. It's hilarious.

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equivalent

>>385393364
The really sad part is, Bloodborn did this exact same thing with the Astral Clocktower and Fishing Hamlet. And they showed just how goddamn easy it was to justify if B team had been bothered to put the effort in. All it took was an enemy from the fishing hamlet falling from the sky in the lower level, some glimpses of the lower level through the water in the fishing hamlet, and a vague lore explanation, and everyone accepted it. You don't see people bringing the astral clocktower up in Bloodborn hate threads, or calling it an example of bad level design. All it would have taken was a little goddamn effort.

>>385394157
The warped and convoluted level design in DaS2 is internally consistent with the themes presented ingame.
>and being hit feels the same, while somehow ALSO managing to feel like you're stunned for too long from even the tiniest nick.
At this point you're not even making much sense, and seem like you don't even understand the different roles poise had in DaS2 compared to DaS3.
>Enemy animations are fucked, particularly in enemies like the Spider dudes in Tseldora, when you get hit out of nowhere during their death animation. Hollow soldiers run like fucking retards, and while Scholar fixes a lot of the Lazy-Suzan style spinning overhead attacks, it doesn't completely fix enemies who feel like they have no fucking openings between their constant onslaught of bullshit.
No irony intended, but git gud. The death animations of the Tseldora spider dudes are easy as shit to avoid, and the attack patterns and mechanics of enemies in DaS2 are equally easy to deal with. DaS2 is even (rightfully) criticized for having enemies and bosses that just aren't challenging enough.
>The volcano sitting on top of the windmill is not.
A volcano sitting atop of a windmill isn't consistent in a gameworld that has been established as breaking down and having warped landscapes? Ok.

>>385395034
2/10 for typing this much

A hidden volcano?
At this time of day?
In this part of earthen peak?
LOCALIZED ENTIRELY AT THE TOP OF IRON KEEP?!

>>385387927
Are you one of those autistic reddit transcribers?

>>385395445
someone's testing their captcha bot

>>385395034
Not him but
>The warped and convoluted level design in DaS2 is internally consistent with the themes presented ingame.
Not really, show me another point in the game where something is shown to be warped to even close to the same level
>At this point you're not even making much sense, and seem like you don't even understand the different roles poise had in DaS2 compared to DaS3.
Fuck off "No it's okay that it's worse because it's supposed to be different" is not a valid response
>No irony intended, but git gud. The death animations of the Tseldora spider dudes are easy as shit to avoid, and the attack patterns and mechanics of enemies in DaS2 are equally easy to deal with. DaS2 is even (rightfully) criticized for having enemies and bosses that just aren't challenging enough.
That game's balancing is a fucking shitshow, a whole fuckton of the enemy and boss animations, cooldowns and attack patterns are fucked up to either be too easy or stupid bullshit
>A volcano sitting atop of a windmill isn't consistent in a gameworld that has been established as breaking down and having warped landscapes? Ok.
Again, show me one, show me one other landscape, level, place, building, enemy, anything that displays that level of warping

https://imgur.com/a/Nbo0o

There's no excuse for this. Iron keep is literally a floating invisible castle in the sky.

You can't retroactively defend bad design and say "oh it was MRANT to be a floating invisible castle, you just don't understand the LORE" that's moronic. No NPC ever mentions a floating castle, there's no enemies that mysteriously fall out of the sky, there's no reference to Priscilla-like invisibility spells being used to hide Iron Keep. You take a fucking elevator to nowhere and end up surrounded by lava, where the fuck does the Old Iron King's ocean of magma fit on the map?

"Careful, there's a giant lake of fire with a demon guarding it high up in the clouds that can only be accessed from Earthen Peak" said no one ever.

>>385395548
The warped and convoluted level design in DaS2 is internally consistent with the themes presented ingame.
>Not really, show me another point in the game where something is shown to be warped to even close to the same level
At this point you're not even making much sense, and seem like you don't even understand the different roles poise had in DaS2 compared to DaS3.
>Fuck off "No it's okay that it's worse because it's supposed to be different" is not a valid response
No irony intended, but git gud. The death animations of the Tseldora spider dudes are easy as shit to avoid, and the attack patterns and mechanics of enemies in DaS2 are equally easy to deal with. DaS2 is even (rightfully) criticized for having enemies and bosses that just aren't challenging enough.
>That game's balancing is a fucking shitshow, a whole fuckton of the enemy and boss animations, cooldowns and attack patterns are fucked up to either be too easy or stupid bullshit
A volcano sitting atop of a windmill isn't consistent in a gameworld that has been established as breaking down and having warped landscapes? Ok.
>Again, show me one, show me one other landscape, level, place, building, enemy, anything that displays that level of warping

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>>385395249

>People still think DS2 is a good game
>The first titanite shard you'll pick up will probably be a titanite slab
>Simplified the fuck out of smithing
>Absolutely no build variety, everything after level 80 is hyperbuffing yourself with a twinblade/curved sword or else you get shit on
>It's possible to get a +10 weapon after two bosses
>Attack animations are absolutely fucked
>You can't even walk in a damn circle
>Busted AoE spells that completely cheese both the PvE and PvP
>Shitty bosses, the only one with any real potential is darklurker but you can kill him with any build before he becomes any real threat
>All the enemies attack's are either instant bullshit that deals no real damage or huge windup with shit hitboxes
>Soul Memory
>Terrible, Terrible lingering hitboxes, and shockwaves
>Iron Keep
>Castle Drangliec has almost no new content, entirely filled with a mishmash of previous enemies

>>385395548
>Not really, show me another point in the game where something is shown to be warped to even close to the same level
Majula to Heide, where a trek that should have taken a ridiculously long time is shortened to a small passage. Door of Pharros to Tseldora, same principle. No Mans Wharf to Lost Bastille.
>Fuck off "No it's okay that it's worse because it's supposed to be different" is not a valid response
You're right, DaS3 had no excuse to make a worse poise mechanic just to be "different".
>That game's balancing is a fucking shitshow, a whole fuckton of the enemy and boss animations, cooldowns and attack patterns are fucked up to either be too easy or stupid bullshit
Name one enemy that was stupid bullshit. One enemy that couldn't just be dodge rolled or shield blocked.

>>385396584
Enjoying DS3 I guess

>>385393942
One of the NPCs say that iron keep sank down into the mountain because it was too heavy so even with that theory going up to reach it doesnt make sense. Unless it was on top of a really tall mountain and it still ended up higher than the tower upon sinking but we see no such mountain.

>>385396584
2/10 for typing this much

>>385396732
DS3 is also shit.

>>385396921
It's by far the best and most satisfying soulsborne game after Bloodborne.

>>385396789
>brainless parrot

>>385396584
The thing that makes me really salty with DaS2 is that the devs finally acknowledged the jumping controls were ass, and then proceeded to come up with something worse or at least equally as bad as a "fix".

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jej

>>385396784
You don't actually go up from the top of the tower. The top of the tower isn't explorable. Mytha's boss room is around the midpoint of the tower.

The bonfire warp image shows that there was supposed to be a really tall mountain behind Earthen Peak (maybe that was the titular "peak", and not the windmill) but it's clear that DS2's fucked up development led to them having to scrap that idea, either for performance or time constraints. What we have now is what we got left with.

>>385397048
Whats up anon dont you like bowser's castle?

They were suppose to add this
http://imgur.com/a/njm2t

You guys have spent like 5 years crying about one elevator that was probably meant to go down instead of up. Holy shit. Why does it matter so much? I can't even imagine how you latch onto something real in life.

>>385397263
2/10 for typing this much

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Why is no man's wharf accepted? are we spongepop and friends?

making dark souls:
>create big concept art of s big area
>divide that area into map parts
>distribute bosses around these maps

making dark souls 2:
>hire concept artist to make a bunch of dark and cool places so gritty and cool
>your devs make maps based around those places
>just connect one to another without any logic behind it


there
that's why DaS2 map sucks, because the concept art was used to create multiple levels that are not concise with one another

If they had followed demon's souls map style this could have worked, making the world not continuous
but they didn't give a fuck and sold a bunch of copies

is this the birth of an epic new meme?

>>385395636
>https://imgur.com/a/Nbo0o
This.

Its just poorly thought out.

Kingsfield>DaS1>DeS=BB>DaS2=DaS3

>>385397263
>they should have just made it go down instead of up, guys!
Holy shit so many people don't understand game development. It's not like they just slapped an elevator in their level editor and mistakenly entered "up" instead of "down" as the variable for it.

They had to model the entire elevator shaft. They knew what they were doing. They just didn't give a fuck.

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Justify this.

>>385397438
DS3 is the same except

>let's reuse half of DS1

>>385397550
And why do you give so much of a fuck is my point

It means literally nothing

yeah it might not make sense

yeah maybe there was a mistake

yeah it affects absolutely nothing

oh my god

who

the

hell

fucking

cares

Do something else with your life

>>385397438
It sucks on so many more levels though, I don't recall any of the paths folding back in on themselves, and bonfire placement and level progression is poor at best, on top of many of the maps just being plain ugly.

this thread is why /v/ doesnt have friends

you all should be ashamed

>>385397437
I remember feeling confused when I found it.

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>>385387462
You'd have to be a retard to actually defent this kind of shit.

Isn't there some guy on youtube who did it? I think he's some leftist cuck which really makes you think.

>>385397634
Why the hell are you here?

>>385397438
With warping unlocked from the start I think it would be better if they had just gone back to the DeS system. Warping in DaS2 leads to missing out on exploration. It took me a long ass time to find Huntsman's copse because I always warped to Heide so I never had to visit the tunnel again.

>>385396728
So basically, every obviously lazy and poorly planned area transition is somehow justified by 'But space is warped, but only in area transitions, not in any significant way that is intergrated into an area's design as a puzzle, hazard, or simply point of interest.'
You don't seem to be getting the point on this last one. He's not saying the enemies cannot be dodged or blocked or otherwise dealt with. He's saying the animation and the actual damaging frames of the attack are in a casual relationship at best. The Souls series on the whole gets a lot of accusations of trial and error leveled at it, but I feel cases like this, that crop up a lot in DS2, are the only places where that really does apply. If an enemy jumps up in the air, and you see him jump up and don't roll out of the way when he comes down, that's not trial and error, that's on you. If an enemy releases an AOE blast that visually dissipates yet you still take damage when you walk into the area it occupied 1 full second after the FX is gone, that's trial and error. You were led to believe the attack was finished and it was safe to advance by the FX disappearing, and if this is a blind first run, you have no way of knowing that's the case without actually being hit by it. In a game where split second communication of information like this during combat is tantamount to the player's success, some of the timings on DS2's animations are utterly unforgivable. Some attacks seem to land before the enemy has even started their swing. Some don't seem to land until it's already finished. Hell, I distinctly remember trying to parry with certain weapons required you to time it so the attack landed after your parry animation had actually finished, not in the middle of it like one would reasonably expect. It's not a matter of 'git gud', it's a matter of the game doing a poor job of conveying the necessary timing to the player through matching the animations and hitboxes.

>>385388385
There's actually a fair bit of vertical non sense in DaS1 and Bloodborne, it's just minor enough that no one immidietly notices it, you have to look very carefully and remember the exact layout of things.

There's no moments where you go "wait, what!?" and have no clue how you got to where you are.

Does anyone have that shitty handrawn map of Lordran an Anon made to show an inconsistency with Ash Lake. It looked like it was done by a toddler, and hate cute little representations of all the bosses in thier locations. I had it saved on my phone but it got destroyed and I couldn't recover photos.

>>385397559
You dont get it. The game is making meta commentary on video game level design, like people making fun of little plants blocking you in pokemon, by having a protagonist that cant climb over a few rocks because the curse made him forget how to climb. You really cant appreciate this 10/10 masterpiece seconded only by MGS2.

>>385397729
Because I love all five of the Souls games and don't understand why you autists have been crying about an elevator in a game with clear design issues and a force scrap of almost the entire game for years.

It is probably the most autistic thing I've ever seen on here, and has lasted so long. Everybody understands that this elevator issue exists. It literally affects nothing about the game. It is outright just something to be insanely buttmad about for no reason. Like, use your time for something better you goddamn losers rather than talking about an elevator for years on end. It's a game about converging timelines and lands. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. But it's also just pixels on a screen and you all take it way too fucking seriously, and this is coming from someone who has gotten all Achievements / Trophies in all five games and just finished DS3 on ng+8.

The elevator is a mistake. The elevator also doesn't matter. stfu

Iron Keep is located where it is because the final version of DS2 was slapped together from mostly finished assets after an earlier clusterfuck during development so there's probably an entire area or two missing before the keep.

>>385398008
>I love all five of the Souls games

there aren't five souls games

>>385398052
DeS
Ds1
Ds2
BloodBorne
Ds3

>>385397896
The only one I can think of in bloodborne is that way by design because its in a nightmare
DaS1 did a fairly good job of hiding it, so no one really calls it out for it

>>385398048
There was supposed to be an entire Desert area between them. That's where the Desert Sorceresses were supposed to appear.

>>385397896
Can you define "vertical nonsense"? If you mean areas that dont make geographical sense then thats not true, it all makes sense except for a small part of the arena where you fight the gaping dragon, which overlaps with another area.

>>385398078
one of these names is not like the others

>>385398052
Des, DS1, DS2, DS3, BB

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>>385387462
In that case you'd be able to see the free standing elevator, you view isn't cut off like that mspaint drawing implies

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>>385397896
I know you said hand drawn, but here's a map someone made of Lordran

>>385387462
why didn't they just teleport you bros

they even re-released the game and didn't fix it

W H Y
H
Y

>>385397559
>Remove the entire section that leads to the Shrine of Winter
>Place Shrine of Winter where the blocked archway is and add a big ass fence on either side of it or some shit
Fixed it

>>385398316
Because they didn't think it was a big enough thing to fix, because the 20 autistic adults on /v/ who cry about it still played it.

>>385393045
A remastered book? That's the first time I see this shit and it's hilarious.

>>385398090
> Bloodborne inconsistencies are deliberate because nightmare

Nah, because they arnt obvious or meant to be noticed (except for Fishing Hamlet above Hunters Nightmare, which is very deliberately done and not an inconsistency at all).

It's mostly just small stuff, like when viewing an area from afar the size and spacing of everything is all wrong compared to when you actually get there. Sometimes the angle of Yharnam is wrong (not hugely wrong, but definetly off) when looking at it from far away, like Hemwick.

The worst example is probably the Research Hall. From the outside (eg Nightmare Church lamp) the Research Hall is parralell with Ludwigs boss room. But from an interior level design perspective it's quite obviously perpendicular to Ludwig's boss room.

>Valley of the Drakes
>entire area is narrow cliffs
Why have I never seen people complain about this?

>>385387462
I just don't give a shit. This never bothered me. Dark Souls worlds are supposed to be weird and ethereal, coming out of an elevator to somewhere completely different seems pretty par for the course, even in DaS II is easily the lesser of the Souls games.

>>385398840
Because its an optional secondary area that doesnt even have a boss, so instead we complain about the shitty areas that actually matter like lost izalith or the crystal caves.

>>385398223
No I want the one that was drawn on shitty paper in Red, Blue, Green and Black pen by an anon who claimed to be at work. It was from a side on perspective and showed everything from Undead Church downwards all the way to Ash Lake.

Someone must have it, it got dozens of replies when he posted it because it was hilariously terrible, but also very detailed and as accurate as you can be showing a side-on view of Lordran.

>>385397896
>bloodborne
Half the game ain't even fuckin' real. You're in a nightmare. Shit's mad fucked up, senpai.

>>385398878
>coming out of an elevator to somewhere completely different seems pretty par for the course
How is it 'par for the course' when the previous game didn't do it at all? And I don't mean elevators specifically elevators that take you into a completely different area despite it being completely impossible by any normal means. Anything even remotely like this in DaS is either explicitly magical or perfectly mundane and consistent.

>>385398840
isn't it still a valley though?

>>385398939
Sorry if I didn't make it clear, but my problem is that area is clearly not a valley. It's more like a gorge. A Canyon of the Drakes.

>>385398840
Because it's a mah-Miyazaki game

>>385397896
Theres a 3D map someone took from the game and everything fits just nice.

>>385399145
Ash
Lake
Fuck yourself

Also ds2 is still worst souls.

>>385399184
Ah yeah, I wonder if thats a translation thing.

>>385398165
They use a parrying weapon in the off hand, spurn those who use shields, have a fast and evasive combat style, wear only light armour, drink blood, exist in an area heavily populated by wolflike beasts, and the most powerful among them can set their weapon ablaze and leave trails of flame that explode in the wake of their attacks. And a bell tolling features heavily in encounters with them.

Am I talking about Abyss Watchers, or Hunters?

Pontiff's Beasts, Watchdog of the Old Lords.
Witches of Izalith, Keepers of the Old Lords.
Ocelotte, Mergo.
Aldrich, who's visions allow him to create a spell based on the Lifehunt Scythe, also has visions of the coming age of the deep sea.

Bloodborn arguably has more connections to the Souls games then Dark Souls 2 does.

>>385397896
What is the DS1 "vertical nonsense" everyone talks about? You can actually look at the collision map for DS1, I've done it myself, and I didn't find a single thing off from it.

In fact, here's two fun facts I learned from it. The Bed of Chaos fight, is the lowest point in the game, lower than the Abyss is - and Seath's Tower is the highest point in the game.

>>385399289
>The Bed of Chaos fight, is the lowest point in the game, lower than the Abyss is
Pottery

>>385399259
your are really fucking stupid if ash lake didn't make sense to you

>>385399259
People keep bring up Ash Lake, but I've never quite understood the problem. You enter a tree at what it appears to be its base, and after a long trip down, you enter a large area with an obvious 'ceiling' of sorts. Clearly this enormous strange area is what lies beneath surface of the world. I haven't checked any geometry, so I don;t know if it's exactly 1:1 consistent with the rest of the world, but unlike DaS2, it seems to be, so nothing really takes me out of the immersion.

>>385399385
you are really fucking stupid if iron keep didn't make sense to you

>>385399535
> I haven't checked any geometry, so I don;t know if it's exactly 1:1 consistent with the rest of the world, but unlike DaS2, it seems to be, so nothing really takes me out of the immersion.

Exactlky, as long as i dont notice, its totally fine, Ds2's issues stuck out like a sore thumb

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>>385399571
>you are really fucking stupid if iron keep didn't make sense to you
wow parroting what i said really showed me!

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>>385399535
It's not nearly as weird as climbing down to the bottom of the world and finding this bullshit down there.

>>385399371
Isn't the abyss more like its own little pocket dimension? I never thought while playing it that I was falling for a long time, but more that I was entering some mystical sort of area. You don't take fall damage and you need a ring to be able to enter it like it's some sort of doorway with a key, not just a big hole.

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People freaked out so much about the level design in Dark Souls 2 that Bloodborne had its crazy fucked up Warp back to Hunter's Dream then Warp to Lantern system, mixed in with useless fucking shortcuts that only existed for you to go "Aha, these places exist!" and then never use it because you had zero reason to be back in whatever area it connected to and had the lantern warping bullshit to deal with.

And then there was Dark Souls 3, where they had a check box of "Stuff a Souls game has I guess" and a bunch of nostalgia bait mixed in too.

Eventually everyone will admit Dark Souls 2 was a great game. It had way more thought put into actually improving on the mechanics of the original game than Dark Souls 3 had into recycling content for nostalgia.

>>385399747
I think its meant to be a pocket dimension but its coded into the game as an actual area thats connected to the rest of the world unlike the painting or whatever.

>>385399747
I think it's more a matter of needing the ring to survive exposure to it. We see perfectly well how the Abyss gets along with physical space in AotA.

>>385399535
Can't you even see Ash Lake from the Tomb of the giants or whatever that area is called?

>>385400234
Yeah. I'm not sure if you meant that as an inconsistency or not, but to me that was showing that this place existed everywhere, or at least a lot of it, and that the TotG was as deep as it.

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>>385395249

>>385399784
>Eventually everyone will admit Dark Souls 2 was a great game
No. DS2 had the best PvP in the series but that's about it, everything else was mediocre or bad.

>>385400764
How is it the best pvp? If anything it's the worst because it's the slowest and therefore the least skilled.

>>385400956
I think the best assessment we can make of PvP in the souls series is "they all suck go play a fighting game instead or something".

>>385400764
>DS2 had the best PvP in the series
best variety, shittiest mechanics (like the rest of the game)

>>385401052
Imagine Dark souls with less than 1 ms of ping, playing ds pvp on a lan connection would be a dream

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>>385390346
yes, but they act like consoles are better cuz they hear 4k buzz word and their brain shuts down even tho they play at 15-45fps.

>DaS1
>can see (and jump to) lower burg from upper burg
>can see the forest from the parish
>can see izalith from totg
>and not just visual representations of them, you can actually die in izalith and then go to totg and see your bloodstain

>DaS2
>can see heides from majula
>except it's just a flat texture of it they put out there
>were too lazy to even make a fake bridge to it like the one you actually walk on
>magic iron keep in the clouds
>used to be able too see the lost bastille floating above no mans wharf because they forgot to put a ceiling there
>location of no mans wharf relative to heides also makes 0 sense

Anyone that defends DaS2 world design is a fucking idiot

>>385391349
I think that the Tomb of Ancients and -whatever is the name of the area where you find the Dragon Covenant- overlaps one another.

There's a 3d map of DS1 online if you want to check it out.

>>385402164
People rail on iron keep so hard because it sticks out really badly. I don't know for sure if TotG overlaps with Ash Lake, but as long as it isn't noticeable in game, it isn't really a problem.

>>385399784
History will be kind to DSII, but that's not to say DSIII is anywhere near bad or whatever. The game doesn't entirely consist of nostalgia bait.

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>>385399535
Ash Lake and Izalith actually occupy the same space, and if you were to die at Izalith's lowest point then your bloodstain would be floating in midair in Ash Lake, but the chances of you seeing that are astronomically low and you'd have to make a conscious effort to do so

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>>385395249
10/10

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This post from 2011 still stands as one of the main reason people adore DaS1 and its level design. Has anyone tried doing this in DaS2 or 3?

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>>385393423
>dropped the B team for future games
Cause DS3 was SOOOO GOOOD XD XD

DS 2 was a masterpiece and sure as hell they would have done a better job than "team a".
DS3 is a total shitfest with assets from BB, idiotic setting and plot and a general memefest.

Only idiots dont understand how beautiful was ds2.

>>385401673
>can see izalith from totg
I didn't know about this, does anyone have pictures?

New sould game when

>>385407635
Never

>>385407680
BTW Does they announced their so called new project?

>>385391489
>woot
Holy shit, what year is it?

>>385406672
Because of this it was laggy as shit.

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>you think a game that I like and managed to enjoy is SHIT?
>HOW FUCKING DARE YOU REEEEEEE

Throw in hating matthemathosis for saying out loud what everyone else was thinking and pretending that people didn't shit on this game massively when it first came out and you have DaS2 fans in a nutshell.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying games which are shitty or have bad design decisions, but don't pretend you can ignore criticism like it isn't there.

>>385407442
You're not wrong about DS3, but you're wrong about DS2.

>>385407797
>>385407635
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzJC8oOsmeI

>>385407926
No it wasn't.

>>385407442
>HURRRRRRRRR DURRRRRRRRRRRRR BOXES ARE FUN

>>385394849
It was also one of the coolest moments in the game, go beyond the secret of the nightmare and ending up in the memory of Innsmouth. But Bloodborne actually is about impossible space.

>>385387462
>tfw if ds2 was as graphically polished as 3 and if the few mistakes here and here had been scrapped, it would have been a masterpiece

I don't want to be contrarian saying ds2>the others, it has huge flaws but they're only here because of the issues during development

>>385398223
the kiln of the first flame can be seen from the demon ruins, under the tomb of giants

>>385408762
I need to replay DaS1. I pirated it but bought the other games.
I usually buy the pirated game itself if I enjoyed it but I'm kinda put off by the terrible controls on PC

>>385404020
this map is wonky since the 2 bells are actually much closer then it appears

>>385408906
you get used to it, i cant even imagine playing on the controler since the PC controls just feel tighter to me

if you dont want to spend cash but want to play multiplayer there is a private server on tunngle

I don't think people realize, how Dark Souls 1 humanized its level design by having areas that you're supposed to walk through, but don't look like it.

At the very beginning you're walking through a aqueduct, across narrow walkways, you're supposed to skid on the edge below a bridge. The arena for Capra Demon is literally just the end of some shitty alley, not an epic "you're going to fight a boss here!" area. That, along with the fact that you can see where you've come from, make the world seem ridiculously real.

Anyone that still defends ds2 is a post-2014 sotfs newfag.

>>385397729
Just to suffer

>>385391694
Its bad level design, the whole map is supposed to be interconnected in a logical way. That you take a lift in a tower and go up and somehow end up in a volcano when you clearly see the sky and the sun is just plain bad level design.

>>385392462
How many mandatory wars does 3 have anyway? 3-4?
Dark Souls 1 has 2 so it's not a huge difference or anything.

Also is it me or was 3 forgetable as shit?
I can barely remember anything other than the hub.

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>>385387462
>the game makes a massive deal about how you character is going hollow, losing your mind
>intro shows you reaching for a woman and child while snapping to to a different time and place
>time and weather tends to change radically between simple tunnels
No wonder they make every game a pre-chowed low-IQ garbage if the average gamer is too stupid to figure this out.

>>385393942
You know it would make sense if you had to walk a corridor and go uo some stairs.
Instead you take an elevator into the sky. It feels like the elevator should have gone down and you would have to need to walk a bit before reaching Iron Keep.

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>>385388086
>>385388203
This.

>Majula and Heide's are always at sunset
>Lost Bastille is always at night
>Forest of the Fallen Giants, Undead Purgatory, Shaded Woods are always at midday
>Dragon's Aerie is always at sunrise.

You are traveling through time as well when you travel through space in Drangleic.

>>385392646
>Moving goalposts

>>385402164
They don't, you're wrong, fuck off

>>385390610
>But it doesn't really feel like we're moving supernaturally through the world.
So I guess you haven't played DaS2 because even in the very beginning the journey from Majula to Heide's Tower is much less shorter than when you look at Heide from Majula

>>385394157
Magic is fun tho. I made like 3 characters and hated all of them then made a spellsword and it was great. The chaos rapier is dumb

>>385398840
Because it connects FOUR FUCKING AREAS WITH ZERO WARPING RETARDATION

No one complained about valley of the drakes because it KICKED ASS

>>385411250
Yes, but as the guy you quoted says: it doesn't FEEL like we're moving naturally.
You see the tower, you walk through the tunnel, pull the lever, and poof, there it is. What happened?

>>385411375
No, the guy I quoted said: it doesn't feel like we're moving SUPERnaturally.
Even though this shit is happening all game, most transitions don't make sense at all but for some reason people are cherrypicking Iron Keep

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>>385408762
That enormous semi-circular structure? Isn't that Lost Izalith?

>DS2 and 3
>No Silver Knight weapons
What is this garbage. Silver Knight Straight Sword is the shit

>>385391908
Leveldesign refers to gameplay
You're thinking of worlddesign

But you can actually see the top of the tower.

>>385398770
take a quick look in google images and you'll understand why

it was actually necessary

>>385387462
>tower of disbelief
>Disbelief
Man this level design is totaly irrealistic unbelievable !
you got played /v/

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>>385399041
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w219/yagaminoue/dksmap.jpg

>>385399041
I remember this one, it was hilarious

>>385414330
Man this guy does sure have spatial vision dammit. This guy architects.