Did Sonic finally beat Mario?

Sonic couldn't even beat Crash.

It took awhile but yes, this will be the first every big Mario flop.

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>mfw mario gets a better planet wisp than sowho

>>385315753
Sonic has a long way to fall to beat Mario. We're talking about generations of degrading before the formula can actually -top- Super Mario. It's just too complex a platformer for people to consider it better.

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>>385315753
Even assuming you're right (and you aren't), that doesn't cancel the previous 20 years of Sonic failing harder than Mario.

>>385315790
Crash is better than Mario tho

>>385315905
I refuse to believe anyone has actually read Homestuck

>>385315753
Both games look pretty great, it's only the Crash remake that was kind of fucked.

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SEGA DOES WHAT NINTENDON'T

>>385315790
>even
>implying Mario is better then Crash

>>385316296
Making lots of shitty games with their mascot even today?

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>>385316042
>le Shanic Afenture was shit meme

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>>385315753

Sonic's retro throwback is better than Mario's retro throwbacks. So...yes, I suppose in a sense he did.

>>385315790

> couldn't even

Crash is above Mario, nigger.

>>385316403
Not the same anon, but they weren't complete shit. It's only that Sega should have just focused on 1 (one) gameplay style, which would be sonic and shadow. If they wanted to implement other characters, then they should've gone the classic route and just give them little quirks that doesn't completely change the core gameplay.

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Why do people still get excited for Sonic games?

>Crash Bandicoot

You want to talk about a series that was ACTUALLY never good? That one.

That, and Spyro. Mediocre PS1 garbage.

>>385316636

Hope. Sometimes it's worth it, but Sonic's fans are all raging autists who Sega cater to.

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>>385316175
Then remain in denial

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>>385316679

>>385315790
Still getting them all.

>>385316127
>>385316310
>>385316486
Mulitple people holding the same wrong opinion doesn't make it right.

>>385316636
>>385316721
Because it's actually being made by someone with a proven track record, and it looks good.

>>385316636
after 20 years you kinda get used to shit and just hope for the best.

>>385316632
Honestly, I don't disagree. SEGA was broadening Sonic the Hedgehog into a 3D Environment, and the game would have fared better if they tried to expand their previous environments for Sonic himself. Gimmicks like Gem Hunting, Fishing and Mechs are astray from Sonic being the initial platformer it was.
Sonic Adventure was far from a horrible game, though. Adventure 2 was even further from being Sonic, but not complete shit.
Though, any past failures won't affect Mania. In that matter, Sonic Mania probably wouldn't have happened if it weren't for any of those failures. Only happiness can ensue from Sonic Mania, and any past horrible games won't greatly affect said game.

SA2 is shit, I don't get why people praise it so highly since most of it is worse than SA1 barring some speed stages, more reliable light speed shoes, and bound bracelet.

>>385315753
Mania will be good, but ultimately it's just a side game made by third party workers. Forces, the actual game being made by Sonic Team, is looking to be mediocre as fuck at best, and there's no guarantee Sega will follow through with Mania after its release or realize that people simply want better Sonic games. We could simply have a situation where Sega decides to make another 2D game, except it plays like Classic Sonic in Generations and Forces with Lost World-style graphics, then when it inevitably bombs they blame the fans.

>>385315753
But both of these games look good? That being said, comparing a 2D platformer to a 3D platformer is a little unfair. Maybe if you were using Sonic Forces...

>>385315753
Mario was never good.

>>385316403
It is bad though. People who liked it as a kid have replayed it and hated it

>>385317203
Aren't you supposed to be at least 18 to post on 4chan?

>>385317236
Which people? The few you know or the 3 million DreamCast players?

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>That one mad Mario autist who wont stop posting ITT

>>385317203
I wouldn't say never, but it's certainly been ages since the last good Mario platformer. It's been THE phoned-in franchise of the last decade, outside of CoD.

>>385317203
I stopped to care about mario when the turtles started to walk like people.

>>385317203
Crash was never good.

>>385316445
NSMB>Sonic4

>>385317907
Sonic was never bad

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>>385315753
>mfw Sonic Mania and Mario Odyssey are both literally exactly what I've dreamed of from their respective franchises for the past decade

i've a switch but i bought xbox1 just to play banjo kazooie

I'm getting both but Mario is obviously going to be more popular.

>>385315790
Crash is pretty good though, miles ahead of mario

>>385318037
do you dream of mario 06

>>385317467

You didn't like 3D World? That was a lot of fun with friends. Not a masterpiece, but I honestly haven't had fun like that in a game in a long time.

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>>385316403
Sonic Adventure 1 was fun but heavily flawed. SA2 is fucking awful though, even the Sonic stages, the only parts anybody likes which make up like 1/8th of the game are overrated and not nearly as good as SA1's sonic stages. Tails/Eggman feel way fucking worse than Gamma and Knuckles/Rouge are WAY worse than in SA1 due to shittier stage design, shittier camera, and the fucking radar only detecting one emerald at a time.

>>385317467
Mario Galaxy does seem a bit overrated. I own both 1 and 2 but I have 0 desire to replay them and they both seemed like alright games, but nothing really above a 8/10.

Most Nintendo franchises seem to do this though. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword are all games ranging from good to bad, but most Nintendo fans think they're 10/10 games.

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>>385315753
>mfw Crash beat both

Crash? Get outta my Sonic thread you fucking PS1 babbies. And take your shitty bandicoot with you.

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>everyone posting the meh-looking forest world to shit on Odyssey
>when the rest of the game looks fantastic

>>385318184
ahh, the good old delusion.

>>385318138
No, I dream of a new open-exploration Mario game with 64 movement. The weird hat gimmick is icing on the cake.

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>>385315753
This isn't the 90s anymore, they're not competing. Hell, Mania and Odyssey are hardly even in the same genre, literally the only thing they have in common is a jump button.
Sonic Mania looks amazing and Mario Odyssey does too. I'm happy that both fanbases have finally got good games going for them. Why is it necessary to pit them against each other?

will the mario game have fps lags like the moblin zelda lags?

>>385318149
What the fuck am I reading?

Sonic Adventure 2 is ten fucking years old. How the fuck is it going to be flawless?

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>>385318037
>Sonic Mania is a come-back to the era of original Sonic the Hedgehog games.
>Super Mario Odyssey brings back a gameplay style that hasn't been seen since 2002, or 2004 counting Super Mario 64 DS.
>Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy brings back a trilogy of games that was last released almost 19 years ago.
>Blaster Master Zero is a new Blaster Master title after 7+ years.
I'm loving this year of gaming so far! Platformers are really coming back in style.
Yooka-Layle wasn't as good as expected but hot damn if i'm not having a good time.

>>385318149
>Playing the Sonic Adventure games for anything but the Chao Garden

>>385318260
Probably not, since it's not a rushed port of a Wii U game.

>>385317203
FUCKING THIS
It's just the same tiring boring rehash every single time. Say anything bad abut it and it's rabid fanbase will come out autistcally raging why you're wrong.

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>>385318294
Stop enjoying things.

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>Crash is back in the console wars
feels good

>>385318330
i hope so, i alrdy bought nintendosheckels for it

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>>385318259
>Why is it necessary to pit them against each other?
Your reaction image says it all, /v/ will pit fanbases against each other even if they get good games, it's not like /v/ is gonna play them or any video game for that matter, they're just normies here to shitpost.

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>>385318259

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>>385318360

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>>385315790
>>385318184
So, you got a new game you wanna discuss or something?

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>>385318416
> Crash get added into Smash Switch because of N Sane Trilogy
>You can finally fight between Mario, Sonic and Crash

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I think Mario, Sonic and Crash are all pretty cool and all three star in some pretty cool games.

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>>385315753
Mario already perfected 2d with mario maker

>>385318294
>bringing up Yooka-Layle

I'm sure Crash, Mario, and Sonic will all be better than that game.

>>385315753
No, Sonic loses popularity long ago

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I played both at SDCC and I can tell you Sonic Mania is genuinely more fun. Mario is very strange and uncanny, it feels a lot like Sonic Adventure in all the wrong ways. Nintendo definitely jumped the shark with this one.

Pic semi related, it's Symmetra's ass for proof I was there. I couldn't take pics and play each game

>>385318037
you dreamed of a boring walk in the park with Mario?

>>385318294
>Yooka-Layle wasn't as good as expected
That's a massive understatement.

>>385318280
How does that excuse any of it's faults? The level design is for most of the time really bad, the controls are fucking awful and worse than SA1 and the OST is a step down. What the hell does this have to do with age?

>>385318763
>it feels a lot like Sonic Adventure in all the wrong ways
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb7VhfZcA7g
Weird. It looks good.

>>385318763
I played both too and you are wrong.

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They have to make remakes to be able to sell
HAHAHAHH
Why not create new games?
THE KING OF PLATFORM GAMES IS ON THE WAY!

>>385316876
God....
You shills are out in full force....

>>385318763
A short demo is obviously going to favour a level based game over an exploration based one.

>>385316296
but the only game that really applies to is 06 and maybe Unleashed.

If you own a Switch and you're not excited for both games, you need to have your head examined.

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>>385316636
>tfw there have been more good sonic games in the past 10 years than
>Zelda
>Final Fantasy
Those were two of my favorite series too. I just think its easier to have hope for Sonic

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>>385317907
B-b-but Crash

>>385318985

What did you think of each, then? You think I'm wrong about Mario or Sonic or both?

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>>385318280
I don't know anon, you tell me.

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>>385315753
Who cares ? Sonic will also be in the Switch
The rivalry ended long ago

>>385319167
>Ten years
>The only good Zelda games we've gotten were ALBW, HW if you count spin-offs and BotW

I want to go back.

>>385319072
It's the truth. I haven't seen one classic sonic fan that isn't extremely hyped for Mania

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>>385319127
That's a valid point, and if they showcase some more exotic locations later it could turn out pretty good. Like you say, I only had a demo with limited time to play.

Another Symmetra creep shot. Sorry for the blur.

>>385318280
There are older games that are nearly flawless. I fucking already said in my post multiple things SA2 did awfully for it's time you retarded namefag.
>tails/eggman are literally just gamma but with way shittier gameplay
>knuckles/rouge have obnoxious level design, abhorrent camera, and the radar only detects one emerald at a time unlike SA1
>sonic stages are worse than in SA1, shadow stages are garbage
>cannot play stages in the order you want unlike SA1
SA2 fanboys have to be the most delusional faggots alive

>>385319698

I'm a longtime Sonic fan. Loved Sonic back in the mid 90's. Watched the cartoons. Read the comics. Drew fan art, long before it was a "thing" on the internet. I AM looking forward to Sonic Mania, but I don't know if I'd call my feelings "hype". I loved those original Sonic games but I have been burned so, so, so many times by this franchise by this point that it's very hard for me to muster up any real enthusiasm for it. Still looking forward to Mania of course, but I'm still cautious.

>>385318359
>The most popular video game icon in the world
>Never good
At a certain point anon, wouldn't it just be easier to say YOU never thought Mario was good?

>>385320134
>I have been burned so, so, so many times by this franchise
By Sonic Team / Dimps I assume? This game is being made by Sonic Retro guys who dedicate their life to Sonic. I think it's safe to say they know what they're doing. I'm not telling you to get hyped, but I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

>>385319698
I'm not exactly hyped, but I am optimistic.

>>385320423
how do we get something like this to happen for other games that have fallen from grace?

>>385318669
so what's up with the whole Kim thing

>>385319698
I would be hyped if it didn't do the opposite of the one thing Sega and Sonic Team has done right regarding the franchise in the past two decades, which is nearly pretend Sonic CD didn't exist.

>>385320909
She's a squirrel now, obviously.

>>385316403
What the...

...is this...the anime girl???

>>385315790
Crash hasn't had a good game since Warped, but a good Sonic game is around the corner.

>>385320964

Sounds like an autism problem, m8.

>>385316679
t. n64 nu-male

>>385320964
Yeah, it's not like the game hasn't been re-released on virtually every platform to much fanfare and high sales or anything.

>>385319058
cringe

Not if you compare 3D games.
Though Forces might not even really be 3D since it looks like most of it is blocky 2D sections that look out of a fangame

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Yeah, I'm still looking forward to Mario Odyssey, but considering how fucking amazing it is that we're finally getting a proper follow-up game to 3 & Knuckles, I'm definitely more hyped for Mania.

>>385318184
a 2.5 platformer that is mediocre at best is better than sonic and mario.

are you even able to post here?

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>>385316296
>knock knock

well mario tend to aways have good games

this is the first time in AGES sonic seens to have his shit toggether

>>385318359
>It's just the same tiring boring rehash every single time.

Make a stronger point. Explain further. The reason why people dismiss your argument is that you people tend to just say "rehash" and expect to be taken seriously. Go through some of the core titles and discuss the problems within them and then people will have something to argue against.

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>>385320909
She's cute and she likes to draw Sonic.

>>385318965
Eh, it looks alright

>>385318359
kinda, but if you don't count the new super mario games, then the rest of the games are quite different

>>385318416
with a weak remake of a game from ps1

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>>385322062

>>385321860
>that is mediocre at best
whats so mediocre about it?
its got the fun factor down, good sense of progression, tight controls, looks great and sounds great, whats not to love?

>are you even able to post here?
Not an argument, Crash is 21 years old, nigger

This place is some sort of negative vacum chamber. Where in other places people become huge ass lickers for whatever random company and game, here people do the opposite. Every next big release has to spell doom for you guys, then you get surprised when it's not, when people outside of here like it, hell /v/ might even play it and be forced to admit it was good and like it for a while. Don't like it too much though, a couple of weeks down the line you'll go back to complaining it wasn't really good.

>>385320003
But you're defaulting to novelty and divine truth! Sonic Adventure 2 was a decent game, plagued by a whole bunch of problems. You can't say, "these old games are flawless, therefore I can't possibly imagine how these new games don't pair up to it," you're just discounting the merits of SA2 to further your argument.

>>385316818
It's like opinions aren't facts, you complete dumbass.

>>385315753
No, because the Mario game isn't copy pasted from old Mario games.

>>385315753
2D Wise? Probably
3D? Not by a mile. You're fucking nuts if you're trying to make Mario Odyssey look boring.

Honestly, taking Mario Odyssey, and making it more Sonic like would probably be the best way to make another Sonic Adventure game.

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Excuse the shit quality

>>385322471
>le romhack maymay

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>>385322471
>Mario game
>isn't copy pasted from old Mario games

>>385322471
>people hyped for Mario Odyssey because it has movement similar to 64
>"b-but it's not copy pasted!"

>120 posts
>60IPs
wew lad, the mariofag tantrum is real

>>385316818
>Implying it's multiple people

>>385322754
It has more moves than 64 though

>>385322774
>implying it's not crash bandipoop defense forse

>>385321050
>Ignoring CTR
Kill yourself

>>385322650

>Sonic
>Not desperatly copying the same shit for decades now to get copies sold

And the times they tried to do something new Sonic 06 happened.
And Sonic Lost Worlds
And the Sonic game with the edgy black Sonic

In contrast we have the Mainline 3D Marios which offer drastic changes in every title

>>385322869
>in a tread not even about Crash
Deflecting

>>385322982
This.

Why do you think Sonic forces is shoehorning classic Sonic in the game?
Because they're too afraid to let the game stand on its own.

Also screencap this Metacritic scores

Sonic Forces: 59
Sonic Mania: 87
Mario Odyssey: 95

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>>385318294
>crash
>blaster master zero
>yooka laylee
and then there is this faggot

>>385323032
sony killed sega a good decade ago while nintendo is still going strong, which enrages sonyfriends and makes their blood boil
they're transparent as a baby

>>385323126
marios gonna get a 90+ just because its mario though. It could be shit and still get 10/10. It's happened before and it will happen again.

I won't disagree with you ratings though I expect forces to be a little higher unless its glitchy mess.

>>385323325

Man, if that makes them mad, they're gonna kill themselves when Nintendo outlives Sony as a company.

>>385323435
God forbid it's because the games are good right? No, it has to be the Nintendo bonus.

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Why did nobody call OP out for comparing Mania (2D sidescroller by third party, not SEGA) to Odyssey (3D platformer by first party)? When there is an actual 3D game by Sonic Team on the way that he evidently wants to distract from because it's not looking too hot?

>>385323508
Why would we call them out? It's assumed 90% of the posts on /v/ are underage trolls trying to get a rise out of people.

>>385323506
Nah there's some weird AAA biased though. It's why Rockstar and NaughtyDog also get free passes on their bad games

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>>385315753
>>385315790
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2bzuBSMgNY
Sonic and Crash are bros, ya dope

>>385323508
the fact a rom hack looks better than 2 major 3d platformers is still pretty sad though

>>385322982
>Sonic
>Not desperatly copying the same shit for decades now to get copies sold
>copying the same shit for decades now
You're wrong and you're stupid as fuck. If anything the major problem with Sonic for the majority of the 2000s is that they NEVER re-used the good shit over and over like Nintendo do, up until Sonic 4 when they jumped aboard the rehash bandwagon but keep getting it outstandingly wrong and rehashing the wrong bits instead of the things people actually liked in the first place.

Sonic has been shit for a long while now but not for the reasons you're talking about.

>>385322471
>same jump routine, just only adding/subtracting a technique
>always jumping on platforms, same old Bowser villain
It's copy pasted, and you're just ignoring that. A lot of games do this to be honest, it's not a bad thing.

>>385324198
Mario Galaxy is very different from both 3D World no Odyssey though.

>classic sonic
>gotta go fast
>except no
>run fast
>there is an enemy you weren't aware of in advance because you haven't played the zone before
>you didn't react in the 3 frames given to you as warning
>you're fucked
>let's take it slow instead then
>sonic is intentionally made to control worse when moving slowly
Why the fuck do people like classic Sonic? It's fucking garbage.
The only way to get any sense of enjoyment out of them is to play them awkwardly multiple times in a row until you learn every nook and cranny about them. And then replay the game from the beginning and finally try to beat them at a faster and more satisfying pace using your accumulated knowledge from the prior complete ass playthroughs. But that assumes you ever play the game multiple times to begin with and even when you do it it's not that satisfying as to compensate for how shit the game is prior.

Classic Sonic is such a complete mess with its game design. It's clearly built for going fast but the game also punishes going fast and in no way accommodates going fast.

>>385324198
>same old Bowser villain

How is Sonic exempt from this?

>>385324385
I could never get into Sonic because the camera is so zoomed in that I cant tell whats ahead of me. Same reason I didn't like the DKC games.

>>385324385

Sounds like an autism problem.

>>385324518
>the camera is so zoomed
Not only that. Sonic is in the middle of the screen making it worse. If the camera was at the very least positioned so that Sonic is always on the backside of the screen. It'd compensate for a lot and actually give you a moment to react when moving forward. But no. Of course they couldn't do that.

In before the rabid Sonic fanboys defending sub second reaction times as good game design in a platformer, calling everyone else shit at games as a defence.

>>385324279
But follows the same routine. They still have you jump from platform to platform and reuse some of Mario's jumps. The only difference is that gravity pulls you in depending on the circumstance, and the little twirl attack.

>>385324385

Stop saying "you" and "your" and use the words "I" and "my". Don't presume everybody is as terrible at playing video games as you are.

>>385324402
I've never said anything about Sonic. I just stated that Mario games are also copy pasted as well.

>>385324893
>platformers revolve around jumping

Hmm, this really activates the neural synapses

>>385324385
>you didn't react in the 3 frames given to you as warning
Firstly, it's 12 frames, and that's assuming you're going at top speed, and if you're in a fast section of the level where you've got room to breathe at full speed then there's no reason not to be rolling anyway. You've got ample time to react unless you're a retard, you've got the roll at your disposal which makes short work of everything but spikes and fire, and for the most part the level design is created in such a way that it choreographs when an enemy or an obstacle is going to be coming up - with the exception of a few janky zones like Metropolis.

Besides which the game IS designed that it gets better on multiple playthroughs and a light amount of memorization. That's the point. It's an arcade-style mentality that a lot of older Sega games were designed around. Admittedly it hasn't aged great for younger people who want more instant gratification, but if you're too young for the arcade stylings then you can just play the Taxman versions which offer 16:9 expanded field of view and save files which basically erases your "I'm too slow to react" problem entirely.

Classic Sonic isn't perfect but it isn't as fundamentally flawed as you're trying to suggest.

>>385315753
2D vs 3D is apples and oranges, the games that would be better to compare would be Forces and Odyssey.

ITT: Dumb niggers who don't know 3D World is one of the better Mario's

>>385325268
3D world hasn't even been mentioned in this thread who the fuck are you?

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>>385325382

>>385325018
Yeah of course. Mario's movement hasn't changed much from 64 to Sunshine to Galaxy to 3D World. The only real difference I can see is that each of those games has a sort of gimmick added like Fludd, and the Twirl Attack. It doesn't do much to detract from that. The newest Mario has you taking possession of enemies, but they look very clunky. It doesn't do much aside from solving really simple puzzles.

>>385325051
>Besides which the game IS designed that it gets better on multiple playthroughs and a light amount of memorization. That's the point. It's an arcade-style mentality that a lot of older Sega games were designed around.
And I praised the game for it if you actually read my post.
But don't kid yourself. This is by no means unique to Sonic. And it's not even relatively good at it in comparison to most other games aiming to capitalize on the same principles.

>>385316296
>Sonic Cycle claims that every game looks good before release, then turns out to be shit
>Sonic Mania disproves this by looking good before release

>>385316636
This honest

Fucking battered housewives

>>385325619
>And I praised the game for it
Where? Saying "the only way to get any enjoyment out of X is Y" hardly counts as praise, especially when paired with phrases like "it's fucking garbage" and "it's a complete mess with it's game design". Doesn't sound much like praise at all.

>>385318702
>make your own level is better than anything nintendo could ever make

>>385315753
No. Both will be great, but I'm pretty sure Odyssey will be the better game if only because it'll have more original content.

Plus S3&K already beat Super Mario World

>>385325917
It's all relative. I still praised it as a redeeming element.
Doesn't stop the games from being garbage.

>>385322578
isnt your fault nintendo cant make good games. dont blame yourself buddy

>>385325913
Not this honestly

It's looking up to be a really great game

>>385326089
It took you an hour to reply with that witty retort?

>>385319167
>>Zelda

This isn't fair dude. Zelda games don't come out as frequently as Sonic and Final Fantasy games do.

>>385325590
>Yeah of course. Mario's movement hasn't changed much from 64 to Sunshine to Galaxy to 3D World.

Well that's wrong but ok.

>>385324385
I see posts like this all the time and I can't help but feel like they're actually describing the handheld 2D Sonic titles, NOT the Genesis ones. Aside from Marble Zone, Metropolis Zone and Metallic Madness I can't actually think of any cheaply placed enemies/spikes/pits which destroy the flow in the classics but everybody keeps going on about it like it's some kind of plague

>>385319668
How many other Zelda games are there? The main Zeldas only come out every like 5 years

>>385316296
Who made this cycle? "Muh friends" hasn't been an issue since 06, and the gameplay looking to be the same old is the opposite problem to what Sonic actually has where the developers can't stop introducing new gameplay styles no one asked for.

>>385325923
thats NMBU anon not mario maker
there is not multiplayer in MM

>>385326212
just entered the thread silly

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>>385318649
tfw Crash smash amiibo
tfw N. sanity island stage
tfw Coco and Cortex trophies

>>385326381

It's copypasta, and it's the same faggot every time.

>>385325809
The cycle claims that Sonic games look good upon the initial reveal and then steadily spiral downward as more information is revealed up until the release date. Sonic Mania is like three weeks away now and we've still yet to see anything so damning.

>>385326463
I believe it was made back in like 2007.

>>385318702
Mario has always been a faster paced platformer than Sonic.

>>385326302
It does feel samey but ok.

>>385326932
That's just a theory.

>>385326632
That particular post might be pasta but there's an actual subsection of /v/ who believes that shit and it's pretty retarded from where I'm standing

>>385326192
I'm sure the parts directly ripped from other games will be good, can't say the same about the rest

>>385326939
It doesn't though. Mario Galaxy is much slower paced than 64 or Sunshine in order to compensate for the more linear and platform focused aspect. The movement doesn't feel similar at all.

>>385327106
The old stages are being redesigned though.

>>385327106
>can't say the same about the rest
But the bits of Mania that aren't ripped from the classics are the best looking bits

Have you even seen Studiopolis/Mirage Saloon/the new acts of the old zones/the new Special Stages or are you just blindly shitposting? Be honest now.

Sonic
>literally ZERO(0) non shit 3D games
Mario
>all 3D games are great at worst and fantastic at best

What went wrong? Sega should just stop at this point.

>>385327106
They've all got new level designs.

>>385327301
I don't care how they look, I care how they play. Sonic 06 looked good in the trailers

>>385327320
>Sega should just stop at this point.
Or they should pull another Mania and get in some new people who know what they're doing if Sonic Team keep fucking up.

>>385327149
It still uses the same kind of jumps as all other 3D Mario games which are taken from the past games. Once you play one, then you know how to play the others. Copy and paste. Just familiarize yourself with the gimmick and you're done, even if they're terrible (the manta ray race/ball wii movement).

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The only sonic game that stands up to Mario games is 3&k, you're deluded if you think otherwise

>>385327059
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDsz1NFBJw

This is the source of that argument. A bunch of autistic manbabies who grew up with a SNES instead of a Genesis but who are still somehow emotionally invested in 25-year old console wars watched this video and said, "yeah, that's why Sonic sucks! I'll use that in my petty online arguments from now on! No matter how disingenuous it is!"

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>>385327320
>What went wrong?
The non-meme answer is that Sonic was a beautiful mistake that happened as the result of an incredibly talented physics programmer (Naka), a great character designer (Oshima) and a top-notch level and game designer (Yasuhara) who happened to be in the right places at the right times in the early 90s. None of these people work on Sonic anymore and they haven't in a very long time, and the later halves of their Sonic Team/SEGA careers were marred by some horribly dodgy internal politics within the different international branches of the company. Their replacements have been salarymen who want to rape the Sonic brand name but with none of the understanding of how Sonic hit the mainstream in the first place.

The meme answer is "Sonic can't work in 3D" or "Sonic was never good". Take your pick.

>>385327771
>Sonic was never good

Sonic never being good is not a meme.

>>385327443
>Sonic 06 looked good in the trailers
lol

Besides which, dozens of people have actually played Mania and have nothing but praise, and we already know the physics engine is perfect because we've already played games released on that engine. Comparing Mania pre-release to 06 pre-release is apples and oranges my friend.

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>>385327769
>6 frames to react

Sonicfags WILL defend this, just watch

>>385327320
I don't know, Sunshine was really lackluster and, I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this, Galaxy was way too boring for me complete. Although I did do that, but I really wasn't feeling it to re-do the entire game with Luigi.

>>385327949

Pretty stupid, considering the game plays at 60fps on actual hardware, and the emulator they're running the game on is only running at 30fps. Oops.

>>385328020
It's fine if you didn't like them but they're objectively good games from a gameplay and especially presentation standpoint, which can't be said for the majority of Sonics 3D outings.

>>385328081
Even if that true that's (i seriously doubt any emulator plays sonic at 30 fps) 11/12 frames is still retarded

>>385327586
Well that's fine but you said the movement felt the same when they don't.

>>385315830
Implying that Odyssey won't get 10's and sell tons of switches this holiday

>>385318184
Sales =/= better game

>>385328208
>11/12 frames is still retarded

I know you're not this slow. And yes, they're playing the game at 30fps. Why? Probably the same reason they're intentionally running into obstacles. To help illustrate their disingenuous argument.

>>385328421
The average human reaction time is more than 11/12 frames (roughly 15) So yes it's still retarded

>y-you're too slow!

Uh huh, keep it coming

>>385328683
Then you're below average you subhuman, If me and many other kids managed to beat those games without any difficulty that means the game is fine.

Keep SEETHING cuck, Sonic was good and Sonic Mania is going to do great

>>385328216
I couldn't notice the difference when playing the games, but that's interesting to note. Though you do notice that the very base of Mario's jumps haven't changed much from these games. And it's not a bad thing as many other franchises take and repeat from there past games to make their sequels, unless they do a major change in genre for who knows what reason.

>>385328683
>The average human reaction time is more than 11/12 frames

Tales from your ass.

>>385328421

I notice they never use the spin dash. They just keep running into enemies. Maybe they should have tried learning how to actually play the game first.

>>385329192
You only beat it because you memorized enemy positions and rings are bountiful even if you get hit. This doesn't mean the game isn't shit

>>385329285
Overheads in fighter games are 15+ frames, just at the cusp of being reactable to not be overpowered

>>385329667

More tales from your ass.

>>385318037
What a time to be alive

>>385329667
>implying

Don't pull shit out of your ass if you don't know anything about me, I booted up Sonic CD for the first time a month back and I finished it without any troubles, even managed to get all the time stones, you're just a subhuman, that's your problem

>>385327769
"Mario was never good. It's designed around jumping, but when you do that, you can end up jumping in a pit."

>>385329667
Even though there are fangames and rom hacks that introduce level layouts I've never played before and I can still play those just fine (non shit fangames/hacks anyway).

>>385326632
>It's copypasta
It's not though. Just check the archive.

>>385329473
Using spindash leads to a screeching halt which is even less fun. The games just went good, by the time Sega got their heads out of their asses and decided to focus on good level design instead of speed (3&k) the industry moved into 3d where sonic was laid to rest (or rather should have been to avoid its fate)

>>385329770
Another fantastic nom-argument from a sonicfag. I doubt you even know what an overhead is, fighters seem to hard for a peabrain like you

>>385329667

No, it takes YOU 15+ frames to react. We're talking about the average human reaction time. You're below average, clearly.

>>385330052
The one that's more than 11 frames?

>>385330009
>Another fantastic nom-argument from a sonicfag

Let's see an argument from you first. Show me your source. Then we'll talk.

We both know that's not going to happen. Because you're talking out of your ass. End of discussion.

>>385330164
Play any fighter, overheads are 15+ frames

>oh fuck he got me uh I'll just say end of discussion I win hahahahah!

True sonic autism

>>385330370
>comparing a fighter to a platformer

WEW, what, are you going to use a food analogy next?

>>385328334
I wasn't talking about sales, pham

>>385330370

Show me your source on that.

>>385330418
This is an argument on reactions retard


>>385330484
I'm not doing your work for you, you're free to look up frame data on any fighter

Inb4 you proclaim this as a victory because someone won't do your lazywork for you

>>385330370
You can beat him by proving your so-called facts. Ball's in your court, chief.

>>385328081
>>385328421

They aren't playing on an emulator and emulators run at a 60 fps

Wait one more thing

retard

>>385330693
>I'm not doing your work for you

Of course. Because you can't. You likely did just do a Google search and came up completely empty. Because you're full of shit.

>>385330693
And do you think you need the same reaction time for every single type of game? No wonder you can't play a sonic game, you're retarded

>>385315753
As good as Mania will likely be, it's Forces that is actually going head to head with the big boys this winter. Mania was just a cash grab that has no right to be as good as it is, since Izuka and Sonic Team were basically wanting to have another Sonic 4 for their modern Generation game.

>>385317236
People neglect to mention that the modern PC port and Deluxe actually had different camera angles and other things that actively hamper the game experience, while the Dreamcast version does actually have differences that make it better.

If people bother to use the old PC port or the mod that undoes many of the enhancements for the modern PC port of SA1, they'd be surprised at how much more playable it is.

>>385329192
>If me and many other kids managed to beat those games without any difficulty that means the game is fine.

Thats because sonic is casual and if you can pick up just one ring every time you have infinite chances

>>385328208
>>385328683
>>385329285
>>385329667
Where did this 11/12 number come from anyway? In the video Sonic gets hit on frame 8, doesn't that mean you've actually got 7 frames to react in 30fps, aka 14 frames in 60? Which is much closer to the supposed "human average" you guys keep referencing.

Or am I being retarded?

>>385331057

He can't type or spell, it stands to reason he can't do math either.

>>385321767
>all he did was hold forward

>>385320624
Not let fangames get taken down.

>>385328081
>>385328208
>>385328683
They didn't play the game at 30 frames per second. Here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDsz1NFBJw&feature=youtu.be&t=9m15s

They recorded the footage at 30 frames per second. And at the time youtube couldn't handle anything higher than 30 frames per second anyway so recording at anything higher served no purpose.
They weren't counting frames to count frames, they were counting frames in order to judge how much time it took. Which you would be able to do no matter whether or not it was recorded 60 frames per second or 30 frames per second.

And it still only takes about a quarter of a second regardless. Less than half a second.

>>385330940
Truth.

>>385331057
7 frames out of 30 and 14 frames out 60 is 230ms, human reaction time is around 200

However I don't think it's that simple at all.

When I play sonic on a raspberry pi which has horrible input lag on a tv with horrible output lag, one thing I can do consistently is jump of the ends of a ledges. This proves that we have time to react.

But if I'm running and a badnik, red spring, or hazard is in my path. I don't stand a chance. And I know the reason. I can't see them as quickly as a ledge. If I stare at the right side edge of the screen as hard as I can, those things just zip right by and my brain doesn't see it until its too late. The problem with frame counting is we can't assume which frame a human can recognize the stimulus in sonic. Reaction time tests usually use big stimuli like a sound or an image changing dramatically, not recognizing a small object that's moving quickly.

If I had a few more frames, like playing on a real genesis with a CRT, it would probably be easy though.

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>>385315830
underrated post

>>385331975
>And it still only takes about a quarter of a second regardless
About a quarter of a second doesn't sound so bad at all. Most estimates and studies of average human reaction time place it between 200 and 300ms. Seems fine to me. Not to mention, as >>385325051 pointed out, the level design was normally made such that you could tell when a dangerous section was coming up long before the enemy actually appeared on screen, and that most instances of enemies, like the Grounder that they got hit by in the video, could easily be avoided just by using the roll when you're supposed to (hint: an awful lot of the time).

>>385327769

How is that leukemia patient supposed to react going at super sonic speed? His antibodies have likely diminished to the point that he can barely walk, let alone play a video game. What were you THINKING, Sega?

>>385315790
Crash was never good.

>>385332160
>If I had a few more frames, like playing on a real genesis with a CRT, it would probably be easy though.
If you're not playing on original hardware then there's no excuse not to be playing Taxman's superior versions, in which case the 16:9 offsets the latency in reacting that comes with newer hardware

>>385329978
Nice argument retardo. Mario doesn't go nearly as fast as Sonic does while also having a better camera.

You know without the ring system sonics gameplay would be complete garbage, just saying

>>385333258
>Without X this game would be bad
You could literally apply this sentence to almost any game, well done champ

>>385315753
>sonic relying on the generic indie artstyle to win
sonic unleashed (minus werehog shit) is what sonic games should be like, not this undertale ripoff shit
no thanks

>>385321767
these fast parts are just cut scenes

its not like track mania or something where you're actually moving quickly as a game mechanic

>>385333484
>not this undertale ripoff shit
It was a good bait up until this part

C- must apply yourself

>>385333645

He's just lonely and attention starved. Don't replay to him anymore.

>>385329215
super mario 64 is leagues ahead of any game that succeeded it when it comes to movement and is a lot more momentum based
the fact that you say it's the same is clear proof that you might not have played any of them

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>>385333027
But you can end up jumping in a pit, which is why Mario was never any good.

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>>385315753
>implying I'm not getting both

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>>385318160
>8/10
>alright

You know that 10/10 games don't exist, right? because that would mean literally perfect.
Not a single Nintendo game (or any game in general) is perfect, not even the ones from the "golden ages" whenever you consider that to be.

>>385334452
This.
It's all just purely based on biases at this point.

2D Sonic > 2D Mario
3D Sonic < 3D Mario

>>385318416
>thread about Crash, Sonic and Mario
>console wars

These are not the 90's, kiddo.

>>385317907
>>385317203
Games were never good. Do I get my hyper contrarian badge yet?

>>385315753
So, wait, did the Mario already come out? Because people in here are sure acting like it did.

>>385334739
this is pretty much true but Mario Bros 3 gives S3&K good competition. No 3D Sonic game is half as good as the worst 3D mario.

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>>385326540
>tfw Coco amiibo

>>385322062
sauce.

>>385322062
post her art

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>>385322062

>>385322350
No, it's a pretty objective opinion that the Mario series is superior, especially if you look at individual titles, such as Super Mario World. No Crash game can compare to SMW, and this isn't just my opinion. This is an objective fact, and it can easily be measured by the strength of the game's engine. SMW's engine is leagues above anything that the Crash series has to offer, and this is documented by the fact that individuals who mod games are still using SMW as a base to this day, while Crash hacks are virtually non-existent.

You're allowed to be incorrect, anon. Just don't let it happen again.

>>385335394
>SMW's engine is leagues above anything that the Crash series has to offer, and this is documented by the fact that individuals who mod games are still using SMW as a base to this day, while Crash hacks are virtually non-existent.
that's not necessarily the case because smw is the superior game, crash games are known to stretch ps1's limits and almost everything in them is precalculated and baked, making modding tools for that would be hell on earth

>>385315753

Exactly why are there so many threads of this shit? Since when do people give a single shit about graphics in fucking mario?

>>385316175
Don't underestimate autism.

>>385335669
>that's not necessarily the case because smw is the superior game
It absolutely is the case. The reason that no one is interested in modding Crash is because there's no real interest in playing a video game on an engine that is outclassed by virtually every game in the Mario franchise. If people wanted to do it, it would have happened by now.

Mechanically and technically speaking, from an objective point of view, Crash Bandicoot is a worse game than the Mario franchise, and there's no debate to be had. Let it go.

>>385326647
This is fact. Also Sonic cycle usually when "friends" are revealed the quality of the game tends to go down.

Mania when tails and knuckles were revealed quality of the game is maintained by virtue of the fact that they're playable in respective sonic style. No fucking gem hide and seek, no robot shoot-em-ups. Just running and platforming.

>>385336445
Meh, that's your opinion

>>385336445
i'm not even arguing which one is the better game, the thing is that whether or not a game has mods is not necessarily a quantifier of its quality

>>385336445
>If people wanted to do it, it would have happened by now.

You were just given a reason why this might not be the case, and you completely ignored it like it wasn't said at all

Want to know how I can tell you're an insufferable faggot?

>>385316445
Okay, I'm gonna need a source. Who is this semen demon and why is she in all the Sonic Mania threads? And does she have nudes?

>>385318649
Neutral B is spin. Has slight hovering and gliding properties when consecutively pressed.
Side B is Wumpa Bazooka.
Up B is Body Slam
Down B is Slide? (not sure honestly, his moveset might not be great enough)
Final Smash is AkuAku Invincibility. Gives him greater damage, speed, and triple jump?

>>385336604
It absolutely is. If the engine was good enough to create a demand for mods to exist, they would exist. However, because the engine is not strong enough to create a demand for more gameplay in said engine, the mod scene doesn't exist. Hell, even New Super Mario Bros Wii has a small mod scene.

>>385336776
>You were just given a reason why this might not be the case, and you completely ignored it like it wasn't said at all
Except we all know that reason is complete bullshit, because if there was an actual demand for mods on said engine, someone would have found a way, much like people have already started to mod Mario games from the Wii. Face it, Crash's engine is objectively worse than anything Mario has to offer.

There's nothing to discuss here. The engine is not desirable and this can easily be documented by the fact that there is no dedicated scene to modifying the game to create new experiences, which makes this, gasp, objective, rather than subjective.

>>385336445
>Mechanically and technically speaking, from an objective point of view

What the fuck is this post?
>I like Mario more, therefore it's superior?

All of you fags need to get shot. Who-fucking-chucking-cares, Sonic is good to (You), Mario is good to (You) and Crash, Pac-Man, Rayman, Spyro, Megaman, etc is good to (You) and that's all that matters.

Mods need to ban these threads, everyone posting in them seriously are braindamaged to not know what personal taste is.

>>385336791
Some autist girl that drew sonic porn and got naked, then decided it was a bad idea, so whitenights tried to keep her nudes off the internet

>>385337004
>It absolutely is. If the engine was good enough to create a demand for mods to exist, they would exist. However, because the engine is not strong enough to create a demand for more gameplay in said engine, the mod scene doesn't exist. Hell, even New Super Mario Bros Wii has a small mod scene.
post gen 4 console modding scene is pretty damn weak and new nintendo games like nsmbwii are really more of an exception here than a rule

>>385318294
Odyssey is actually how I dreamed Yooka Laylee to play.

>>385337073
thats hot

>>385337004
This isn't any different from your last post. You're just assuming it can be easily modded with good results. Not all games are like that, at all.

>There's nothing to discuss here

>There's no counter argument because I said so

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enjoy Mario and Sonic bros!

I'll just be sitting there in the corner enjoying both, as I've given up waiting for a new Wario platformer

at least we didn't get sent to the NEW team (New Pikmin, New Yoshi's Island,
etc)

>>385315753
>Did Sonic finally beat Mario?
Mania is very good as is Odyssey, but Odyssey changes shit up while Mania is just nostalgia bait. Even if it's well made nostalgia bait.

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>tfw Donkey Kong games are better than Crash and Mario

>>385337529

I'll take the nostalgia bait, personally. I've never been a fan of the sandbox style Mario.

Now, if they had made a new Mario game in 8 or 16 bit style? I'd be all over that.

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>>385336791

It's Kayona Kim, and yes there are nudes.

>>385337005
> everyone posting in them seriously are braindamaged to not know what personal taste is.
Hello, fanboy. This has nothing to do with personal taste. This has everything to do with the objective fact that the Crash engines are less desirable than the Mario engines. What makes this an objective fact, rather than a subjective opinion, is the observations we can make in regards to said engines, and those observations would be that Mario engines are consistently used for hacks, while Crash hacks are virtually non-existent, because, realistically, no one wants to play games in said engine.

If you want to say, hey, I like Crash more than Mario despite Mario games having objectively tighter controls and better movement abilities because I'm blinded by nostalgia, that's completely acceptable. But be mature enough to admit that from a technical standpoint, Crash is inferior.

>>385337415
>>385337207
Because, since my last post, nothing has changed. From an objective viewpoint, Crash is still weaker. End of discussion. You can continue trying to make up excuses, such as it being too difficult to mod, but then I'll just remind you that even NSMBW has been modded. All Crash fans have at this point is excuses.

Hell, I'll even admit that I like the Spyro series more than Mario 64. However, that's just my subjective opinion. If I'm being subjective, I have to admit that, mechanically speaking, Spyro is not as polished as the Mario franchise, which makes it less desirable to mod. If I can admit it, so can you.

>>385337682
They're both very good games that appeal to different groups, though some like myself like both.
>Now, if they had made a new Mario game in 8 or 16 bit style? I'd be all over that.
It would be nice if it happened, but for now I'll settle for the good Super Mario Maker levels. Still a ton I haven't played yet.

>>385337835
cringe

>>385337773
God shes ugly. You fucking weebs are disgusting.
And I love anime.

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>>385332930

And the Holocaust never happened. Move along.

>>385336445
Look I enjoy all games equally, but you mario fags make everything worse by bringing that sort of pretentious arguments while stating your opinions as facts. Every time someone in these threads state something they don't like about mario or just don't enjoy them regardless, you'd defend it tooth and nail while autistically arguing anyone that don't share your views as the enemy. You really are a brainwashed fanboy.

>>385338136
>I love anime

you don't say

>>385338017
>>385338167
These two posts make it clear that this conversation is over and that CIDF has no real argument.

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>>385315753
Sonic Mania and Forces aren't out yet
Mario Odyssey isn't out yet
No one has beaten anyone yet

Why do some people argue seriously on 4chan anyway? I never understood that. Chances are you're arguing with some jobless dipshit in his teens or 20's anyway. Just troll and post porn, man.

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>>385317203
IF YOU DISAGREE YOU CAN CALL THE COPS

>>385333983
Aren't Mario jumps similar to future titles? They are, you have the triple jump, long jump in some cases, and somersault. It hasn't changed at all, you're still jumping on enemies, going platform to platform. Like I've said before, franchise tend to copy and paste the formula to their sequels and 3D Mario games are no exception, it isn't a terrible thing though.

>>385338136
>And I love anime
Was that supposed to make what you said valid? Fucking lmao

>>385338319
We can't argue away your asperger's

Extreme redpills

1) Super Mario World is the only good 2D Mario Game
2) Sonic 3D Games(Colors, Generations, Unleashed, Adventure) are better than Mario 3D games

>>385338830
Ignore it, this thing just wants to delude himself by arguing his favorite game is much, much better than your game. It's a flawed, ignorant argument.

>>385338874

Ultimate redpill:

Crash Bandicoot is the ideal 3D Sonic game.

>>385339368
Crash is shit
The PS1 version at least had balanced jump and reliable hitbox

>>385316296
Colors broke it back in 2010

>>385337835

The engine used for Crash is barely cut out for modding in the first place. There's lot of people who would play mods for Crash, but actually building a level in that engine is virtually impossible if you read into how Crash Bandicoot was made, and modding is essentially limited to the placement of boxes and enemies, and such a mod does exist, or is in the works.

>>385339501

> balanced jump
> reliable hitbox

Sounds like git gud linguistics. Sonic has never been cut out for 3D because it's not done like Crash.

>>385339709
Don't bother. He's not going to respond to your points because he's socially retarded

>>385337529
>but Odyssey changes shit up while Mania is just nostalgia bait.
Have you fucking SEEN the game? 3/4 of the game is entirely new content, half of said 3/4 is new levels and the other half is new content for the classic levels.
The 1/4 is remixed classic levels, the "true" nostalgia bait. If just having existing landmarks come back is "nostalgia" Mario's whole existence is nostalgic dick sucking and any game using any character from a early point in time is "nostalgia bait". Fucking kill yourself.

>>385324385
>classic sonic
>gotta go fast
>there is an enemy you weren't aware of in advance because you haven't played the zone before
>spindash almost 24/7 because not a retard
>keep on going fast

>>385332930
I concur.

Crash really was never good. It's all style above substance.

>>385319138
Nowadays instead of "new friends revealed" it's "wisps revealed"

>>385339970
Nostalgia bait doesn't always mean bad game. You sound like I'm trashing Mania when I'm very hyped for it.

>>385338371
Sonic Forces will be a decent game at best.

>>385340153

More like focus on flow and pacing rather than the 90's open world gimmick that all other 3D platformers went for. Literally only Mario 64 had decent flow other than Crash Bandicoot.

>>385339970
Don't forget that small segment where Mario turns into 2D Mario for that "nostalgia bait." The retard's argument already falls apart before it began.

>>385337529
>but Odyssey changes shit up while Mania is just nostalgia bait. Even if it's well made nostalgia bait.

Odyssey is 64/Galaxy with an enemy control gimmick and anything else that's very different could turn out to be disappointing. I'll just wait and see who does better.

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>>385340570
>small segment
compared to
>entire game

This is you
>Oh no he said nostalgia bait so that means he must have said that Mania was bad

>>385341140
>Galaxy
do you even know what you're talking about

ristar was better than sonic tbqh

>>385322982
>something new
>sonic 06
fucking lel
mate, Sonic 06 apes SA1 so hard that it might as well be called SA3

>Lost Worlds
that one's an actual "something new" moment
for whatever reason, they decided to slow it down like hell

>Shadow
that game sucks because of awful stage and mission design more than anything else

from S1 to 3&K, Sega kept improving
from SA2 to Sonic 06, all of the 3D Sonic games except Heroes (which is almost decent, but only almost) had the same basic Sonic style gameplay with other shit no one wanted thrown in
Unleashed introduced a new style of basic Sonic gameplay, which hasn't been broken except for Lost World.

>>385324385
advance 3 actually suffers from this issue, it's got some miserable stage design coupled with the tiny view area and really wonky handling
advance 2 rarely actually throws things at you despite being so gotta go fast, big issue is "oops, I screwed up on the pit right before the end of the level, now I'm sent halfway back"
advance 1's stage design is similar to Sonic 2's and handles just fine

also, the ring system is explicitly designed to mitigate the worry about going fast -- if you do hit something, fine, you just pick up your rings

>>385324803
for the 2D games, Advance 2 onwards fixes this issue -- at speed, the camera does slide back
still dunno why S3&K doesn't do this though, being made definitely post-CD
Sonic 4 has the issue, but Sonic 4 sucks.
still wonder why Mania doesn't do it like CD, too (probably Iizuka's fault)

>>385341338
mario

>grown men complaining that a game made for children has response times too demanding for them

it's really quite pathetic.

Those of us who do not wish to a princess and rescued by a moustache wearing, sweaty, fat Italian acknowledged Sonics victory years ago.

>>385341860
>also, the ring system is explicitly designed to mitigate the worry about going fast -- if you do hit something, fine, you just pick up your rings
That doesn't really excuse the fact that it totally rapes the pacing of the game.

Even if it prevents you dying or getting a game over. It doesn't change the fact that it stops you to a halt.

>>385337773
Where can I find them? I'd look but I'm still at work

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Marble Garden is the third classic zone in Mania.

>>385342451
I don't understand why there's so much retarded disagreement on basic aspects of sonic

You're directed into going fast but treated unfairly when you do so AND the game is very forgiving. No one person seems to accept these two things simultaneously. Sonic is either bullshit and flawed to the point of being unplayable, or it's supposed to be hard and you just have to git gud. Neither of those are true. It just kills your speed boner, you pick up your rings, and you keep playing. It's a great game most of the time but it could and will be better in mania.

>>385315753
>Mario made the transition to 3D flawlessly
>meanwhile Sonic became the biggest laughingstock in vidya and had to hire FANS to recreate how retro-games made him big

Nah, as excited as I am for Mania, he lost hard.

>>385319058
Why did Mario murder a Yoshi?

>>385343901
Because he was tired of his hahas.

>>385343142
>It just kills your speed boner, you pick up your rings, and you keep playing.
But that does not make for a good game.

>>385343536
The adventure games are better than classic sonic. Flawed, but a lot better.
The boost games are close to irredeemable though.

>>385341279
>Pauline returning
>The various amount of costumes that reference back to older Mario games
>stating that is a return to 64/Sunshine roots
>Mecha Wiggler
Odyssey is nostalgia bait, but it ain't bad.

>>385343901
He used him to jump higher.

>>385344378
>The adventure games are better than classic sonic

That's funny.

>>385344424
Those things don't really define the entire game, like Mania.
>stating that is a return to 64/Sunshine roots
Yet it changes the formula up compared to those 2 titles.
>Mecha Wiggler
Wigglers are just an enemy type. Like the ladybug badniks in Sonic.

>>385322953
Not counting spin-offs you retard, otherwise I'd mention All-Stars Racing.