Could a game possibly have a shittier healing system?

Getting into cover and waiting for health to regenerate.

>>385313563
Literally dark souls 2 lifegem shit tier.

>>385313563
any mmo

>>385313563
life gems were worse

This just gets posted everyday now eh?

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>>385313563
Yeah, this one
>it's okay that you suck at the game, videogames are for everyone! go ahead, here's some free potions!

>>385313625
FPBP

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Vials > estus

In your heart you know it to be true

It's only marginally worse than estus flasks because you have to either return to the dream or die to restock.

There is nothing wrong with it.

>>385313563
FFXV

>>385313563
>new at game
>die to boss
>time to farm vials and bullets before trying again yay
What a grind

>>385313741
Blood Vials work the same way in how they heal you, you just have to farm them every once in a while. The whole point of estus was that you didn't have to waste your time farming healing items.

Also, you couldn't just rest and refill them, you had to return to the dream.

>>385313907
No, it's about getting punished for dying instead of getting a pat on the back before you try again

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>>385313563
Yes

>>385313625
>>385313658
>>385313679
What's wrong with life gems? It's not like you HAD to use them.

>>385313970
You get punished for having to slog through the level again and dropping blood echoes

>>385313563
>"health potions are bad" is now a meme
I guess it was inevitable.

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>>385313563
i like bloodgems.
what i like even more though is that you can get health back by attacking.
and the fact that you get all health back when you trade a parry with your opponents attack.
i really appreciated the rune that gave you +200 HP for visceral attacks.
bloodborne is the only souls game where parrying felt rewarding and fun to do the first time through.

I remember the healing in the first Neptunia game being really shitty. I think it was random or you had to wait x amount of time before you could heal someone, it's been a couple of years since I've played it so I can't fully remember.

>>385314351
you clearly never got good at parrying in dark souls. That's okay the window is 10x smaller it's a little tricky

>>385313563
>taking damage while running to the boss doesn't remove a lot of your health
>more, smaller heals because the game is faster
>if you run out, you probably need the blood echoes you get from farming
>combat is good enough that farming is never that boring
>rally system so you don't have to use your limited flasks, other ways to heal
>very little forced damage in the game
>can buy/sell them

I think something like BotW where you can heal infinitely while paused in combat is way, way worse. Your total HP = amount of food and ingredients so long as you don't get one shot, while there is a mechanic that sometimes prevent one shots from happening.

>all these mouthbreathers defending vials.
Vials are fucking trash. the fact that the only healing item in the game is something you have to fucking grind for is abhorrid.

>>385314645
parrying in souls games doesn't give the same damage reward it does in bloodborne.
3 light attacks in dark souls do about the damage a single parry does.
when in blooborne its more like 10 times the damage.
and yes, the parrying can be a little harder in souls depending on your offhand, but since the payoff isnt big enough theres really no need to ever parry in souls, except for gimmicky bosses like pursuer or PvP

>>385314771
>grind
Unless you buy them.

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>>385313563
I don't know why but one of the things that I dislike most about 2 is how it added estus shards

It just feels better for the game to go 'you get 5 fuck ups for free' and just playing around that number all game long instead of having a constantly changing number of estus shots

I guess you don't have to turn every shard into an extra estus shot, but I hate the feeling of intentionally un-optimizing yourself because the game didn't properly balance itself

>>385314771
>play like shit, waste 30 million free vials game gives away
>can't even manage the infinite blood echoes you get from clearing an area, wastes them on leveling up
>blames the game for having to grind
k man

>>385314859
Then you still have to grind to get the echos to buy them with.
It's worse than estus in every single way.

BOTW's food healing

>>385315091
>Then you still have to grind to get the echos to buy them with.
Unless you sell items or use the items they give you that give you echoes.

>>385315043
>>385315126
BB was the first souls game you played wasn't it.

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Parryable heals makes vials perfect in my eyes

>>385315163
4th. You do know there are items just sitting around that give echoes don't you? Or do you think "walking" is a grind?

>>385313563
Fucking abhorrid healing system. Having to spend atleast 4 hours every playthrough to grind and top up vials is fucking ridiculous, yet it's required.
Fucking disgusting when DS literally perfected the healing system for an action RPG.

The only time where blood vials sucked ass was when I fought Gehrman, Ludwig, and Orphan of Kosm for the first time due to having to grind just so I could take another shot at them.

>>385313563
It only punishes shitters.
If you need to farm for vials or bullets you are playing the wrong game.

>>385315247
Pretty much, all the faggots saying it's fine only played BB.

>>385315387
>all the faggots saying it's fine only played BB
Proof?

>>385315247
>DS literally perfected
Dear God. Each DS game had issues with healing: 1 had too much estus, 2 had infinite lifegems (but it got the estus count right), 3 had millions of estus + the chug was instant, AND phantoms could estus. No phantoms should be able to estus, not even whites and golds.

>action RPG
I'm not falling that bait.

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>>385313563
>Open menu
>Eat 200 apples
>Have full health

Every Bethesda game pre Fallout 4 had a fundamentally broken healing system; and 4's didn't even really solve it, they just slapped a delay on the healing so instead of being immune to all damage, you're briefly vulnerable to burst damage

Yeah blood vials suck, but they're only RELATIVELY bad because the healing in previous souls games was so spot on that slightly missing the mark feels like a game breaking issue

>>385315163
You never played BB did you.

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>stand still next to a wall to lean against it and start healing
>this isn't disclosed anywhere except a random loading screen hint you might see

>>385315387
Only Sony kiddies would defend that dogshit cunt of a system. You NEVER, EVER, EVER block content with over an hour of grinding every time you fight a strong boss. Why should I have to spend an hour farming every 5 tries of a boss? Fucking console fanboys.

>>385314351
The problem with Bloodborne's parrying is that it's still completely arbitrary which attacks can be parried and which can't, and figuring this out requires trial and error.

>>385313625

fpbp

>>385313907
>you just have to farm them every once in a while.
no , you don't
even if you suck you can finish the game without being hit
kill yourself retard

>>385315420
The fact that you didn't even deny it and just limply ask for proof is all the proof needed faggot.

>>385315435
Samefag, 3 tried to make a balance split with the use of Flower Points with the blue estus, but since all magic schools sucked ass and most Flower Point costing skills were useless, the blue flask was virtually worthless.

>>385315593
That doesn't make any sense at all.

>>385313563
Yes, Estus.
I told you the last time.

You don't have to use blood every time you go after a boss learn the patterns and use then when you're confident

>>385315542
Yeah more or less, I'd go with teenagers who's mom bought them a ps4 and bleedyborne, and it's the only souls game they played. so they think it's the best ever.

Vials
>Positives
You get drops during exploration, allowing you to keep on going forever
>Negatives
If you get stuck you'll have to farm, and it's only some bad downtime.

I like the bloodvial system, but hated it when I got stuck fighting orphan for 6 hours. I feel like a mix between estuls and vials could be perfect.
E.g.
>You start at lanterns always with 5 vials.
>You can still buy and farm vials
>Your max is still 20
>You can find "vial shards" that increase the number of vials you start with.

>>385315796
>vial shards
Can you soul babbies not play without upgrades every 10 minutes?
There's runes for that. Sacrifice whatever rune you got instead of begging for upgrades

>>385315886
Just an example. But yeah, a rune that gives you 1-5 "free" vials would work better in the Bloodborne setting.
But I'm mostly just saying how I'd like it to work in the next soulsborne game, that will hopefully not be a sequel.

>>385313563
The worst kind of healing system is the one that heals you for being aggressively playing the game, or by covering behind a corner.
Diablo 3, neuDoom 2016 and almost every console shooter fall into this trash category.
Potions that you manually take that slowly fills up your HP is the only proper way, bandages works too.
They shall reward you WHEN you actually managed to beat what was hurting you.

When people complained about blood vials, i thought that there was only 200 of them for the entire game, that made me never abuse of them, that's how i got gud.

>>385315543
At least it's trial and error that doesn't do damage to you, because you can parry from outside the attack's range. Learning which attacks are parryable in DeS/DaS is a complete shitshow that requires you to stop playing the game normally. In BB, learning to parry is just part of progressive through a level.

>>385316105
gratz dude, but you are one of those guys thats gonna end up calling the game hard despite being piss easy due to infinite healing items and 20 heals per boss run.
people who think that any of the souls games are hard just haven't explored or experimented with the various systems in the game.

>>385313781
No, it's horrible because you have no independent means of or need to upgrade them as you can stock 20 of them and they just scale with your HP instead.

>Almost every mob in Central Yharnam drops Vials
>Plenty of Coldblood to crush and buy Vials with
>Doll set can be sold to buy an obscene stack of vials
>Stacks of 6+ vials in Cathedral Ward and Old Yharnam

Blood Vial shortages in early game do not exist. Buy the time you get to the woods you should never be running out of vials.

>>385315574
>Then theres this nigger
Why put in healing items if you can just beat the game without getting hit? Us hardcore gaymers, huh?

Dumb fucks

You only ran of of vials if you were stuck soloing a boss, in which case you could just redownload your cloud save to avoid farming.

git smart

>>385316550
>why put leveling at all in the game if you can beat it at level 1?
hardcore gamers no , you dont NEED to grind
want to make life easier? grind like a fucking retard

>>385316683

Or you could practice with a boss before starting to abuse of blood vials, you start using them until you think you can beat the boss.

>>385315247
>4 hours every playthrough
Yeah nah. If you have to farm for vials on your first playthrough it's understandable, but how the fuck do you even make it to the 2nd playthrough and not get good enough to never need extra vials? Did you summon 2 phantoms for every boss or something?

>>385315542
You don't have to chug 2 vials every single time you get hit, retard. You choose to press the triangle button. If you're just learning boss patterns and think you have zero chance of winning then you shouldn't heal at all.
>over an hour of grinding
Sounds like you don't even know how to grind properly. Use Eye/Moon/Heir runes and don't get hit.
How is it even possible to spend an hour farming? Were you just killing the first 3 dudes in Central Yharnam and then resetting?

>>385313770
>>385315564
fucking kill yourselves im sick of this reddit-tier shit.

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>>385313563
this game

>get shot once
>have to to a ton of shit to sterilize it

>>385316683
I just summoned because I couldn't be bothered to waste time

>>385316841
this mad

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>>385313563
Quite easily

>>385314645
>dark souls 1 parry window
>smaller than BB
no

>>385316892
everythings a waste of time , kill yourself and save some time to the planet

>>385316683
>>385316514
>lel I'm so hardcore, I beat BB without ever being hit.
These faggots probably never even got past gascoine. due the enemy AI amounting to "just never stop attacking" you will almost always get hit, so you use vials, those vials will run out like a motherfucker especially during hard bosses, when you pop like twenty of them per run because the bosses, never.stop.attacking. it's bad game design pure and simple.

>>385316861
>get hit
>lay down for 10 minutes to regenerate health
yea it's flawed, but never really gets in the way.

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>>385316917
>using healing items

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>>385316861
> Getting shot in the first place...

Not how this game works...

>Run out of vials
>Run through beginning area of game
>Takes about 15-20 minutes
>Full vials at the end
>"WOW WHAT A SHIT SYSTEM"

If you weren't bad you would have enough vials in reserve anyway, but it really doesn't take long to get some more.

>>385316979
gascan is the easiest boss because fromsoft put those tombstones in the way, allowing you to cheese the boss by attacking him through them

>>385315247
Actually, The Oath in Felghana perfected the healing system for an ARPG.

>>385316861
>he got shot.

>>385315530
I remember this shit. the museum level with shitty checkpoints and no healing, atleast what i knew until that random ass loadingscreen popped up halfway through the game when you play as that police dude.

>>385316861
Agreed. It's no better than having to carry around a dozen different items in Final Fantasy to cure stone/curse/poison/blind/paralyze etc. Adds absolutely nothing to the gameplay, it only detracts from it by having you spend more time in menus.

>>385313907
can't you just buy infinite amounts of them off of messengers in hoonters dream?

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>Demon souls
>Dark Souls 1 and 2
>still didn't git gud after all these games to prevent having to farm vials

>>385316979
>this enemy is attacking me with a huge two handed axe which is a slow as fuck weapon
>how will i ever get to hit him??????

>>385315387
All the faggots saying it's bad are PeeCucks who never played BB.

The reason the healing system is bad in dark souls 2 is because the combat is already abhorrently clunky and sloppy so the healing system just had to follow suit.

>>385317021
i hate people like you.
DMC and Ninja gaiden and even bayonetta are designed to be pretty hard on the first playthrough.
your character doesnt have a lot of the moveset and you don't have access to devil trigger or a long ass healthbar or anything like that.
you are supposed to take damage and use healing items, that's why they are so cheap on your first playthrough, and thats why they get more expensive the more you buy them.
the game expects you to eventually have the moves and skills to avoid using healing items, but it knows that the first time through you probably need the extra healing

>>385313914
What's going on there?

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How else would you heal? It's called Bloodborne.

Also did everyone forget the bloodsteal ability?

>>385317021
if you play as warrior (which I do) and have ZERO proper defensive options it's impossible to avoid taking damage every now and then.

>>385316841
Why are you this mad over a game that you'll never get to play anyway?

>>385317270
Yeah you don't have upgrades but you're also playing on easy (normal) mode.

>>385317048
That's like a fucking 20 minutes loading screen, it sucks.

>>385317163
this, you only need to constantly farm vials if you are REALLY bad. Despite having played DaS 1 and 2 when BB first came out I was shit at it for my first playthrough and I only had to farm vials for like 2 bosses.

>>385317451
I think you meant to type "mage"

Maybe i don't have problems with vials because of the rune that give your health with visceral attacks.

>>385314771
>>385315247
>abhorrid

This is how retarded PeeCucks actually are.

>>385317523
>you only need to constantly farm vials if you are REALLY bad
This. In which case you shouldn't even think of it as farming vials, you're just getting combat practice. If you played DeS and DaS and you're already familiar with how the combat in these games work and you still run out of vials then you're just inexcusably bad.
Maybe you'll run out against Orphan or HBLB or something, but by then you have all the best farming spots available (Mensis pigs, Giants before Ludwig, deep chalices) and it takes 20 minutes to get a full 600 vials.

>>385317161
Yes, but in certain conditions they get more and more expensive to buy.

>>385313563
Why do people hate blood vials so much? Spend 5 minutes in any area and you should have all the vials you need. I mean they even go to your storage if you already have 20 when you pick more up, AND you can buy them in the store. It's not hard at all to always be full on vials and bullets.

>>385317690
>>385317227
>I hate BB because I don't have a ps4
when will these consolfagging autists leave?
It's people like you that make me regret buying a ps4..

>>385317862
Nobody made you buy a ps4, if you regret it that's on you dumbass.

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>>385317457
>>385317227
>>385317690
This is the worst arguement in existence

>>385313563
Nioh did it better: you always get 3 healing item, but can farm up to 10 and have a reserve of 999
In bloodborne, you're out of vials, you're condemned to farm

>>385318210
Or you could not be bad

>>385318210
so basically its the same system but its better because you are a faggot into shitty samurais

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>All these butthurt sonybros when someone claim their only game isn't the best thing that ever existed

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>>385315247
>>385314771

>abhorrid
>samefagging

>>385313907
Dark Souls 3 had the most casual-friendly Estus system yet. The speed of your sippys was fucking absurdly fast and you could still retain movement while sipping.

>>385319006
You pop bloodvials "absurdly fast" and can still retain movement. What's your point?

I love it when people whine about blood vials, you can tell they wasted their echoes on stupid shit instead of ever buying any.

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>>385318930
Sorry bitchboy, everyone knows you're wrong.

>>385319403
Wasting XP on healing or forcing the player to grind is abhorrid.

>>385316514
>selling the best torso piece in the game

>>385319485
You don't need to do either

>>385319485
lol ok dude Souls sucked because you had to use souls to level, upgrade and buy stuff too then, right?

Also blood vial healing is parryable making it the second best healing system From ever made.

>>385317443
It's called rally

>>385319616
souls was good because I could grab a mace to go get 20 estus at the beginning of the game which let me steamroll everything after it duh

>>385319310
Healing in Bloodborne can be parried and Blood Vials aren't infinitely refilled for you.

The first Neptuina

https://lparchive.org/Hyperdimension-Neptunia/Update%2003/
go to the part that starts with "Healing in this game is really quite interesting."

>>385313914
wtf I love coca cola now

>>385319601
Except you objectively do.

>>385319858
I didn't do either though?

>>385319886
Then you're a liar or an autist on his 10000th playthrough who never gets hit. Newsflash, majority of people aren't like that.
The game is built around grinding.

Automatic regeneration. Nothing kills the pace of a game more than having to dive for cover every time there's too much jam on your screen.

>>385319953
No I just spent excess souls on them that I didn't need for leveling. That and used coldblood whenever I died consecutively enough to run out of vials, but that only happened in chalice dungeons.

>>385319690
That's not the point you tried to make in your post.

>parrying
Doesn't happen outside of PvP and even then it's rare becuase vials pop so fast
>aren't infinitely refilled
Yes they are, you just have to waste time farming them rather than the game just giving it to you so you can continue having fun with the game

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>>385319462
>>385318930
I'm tired of all my falseflags. I'm tired. I walk around number, everyone does. Focused on one thing: staying alive

>>385320096
>Doesn't happen outside of PvP
>he never fought Crowsteel the edgehog

>>385313563
Fallout 3 has by far the worse healing system of any game I played.

>oh yeah just freeze time in your pip boy and stick yourself with needles and you're immediately full health when you close it

It made dying impossible in that game, especially since stims weren't even rare.

>>385320042
So you're underleveled because of a lack of souls and have to grind them to level up to the intended amount. Abhorrid. Design.

>>385320281
No actually I ended the game slightly overleveled (75).

>>385316758
Need to grind in some cases to use weapons at all. Or spells. Or make some weapons viable at all as a playstyle, like guns.

Also, vials are worse than lifegems since at least you didn't need to have the fuckers unless you actually wanted to grind for a crutch. Vials are plentiful as fuck, fast as fuck and the punishment for being bad is to go back and grind them mindlessly. It's a bad punishment, even worse than having to run back to bosses with no enemies on the way. It's mindless and boring, and a huge waste of time due to loading times as well. Why the fuck didn't they add the ability to respawn enemies at the lanterns at will or automatically is beyond me, it seems so dumb to not do it considering it was the inevitable outcome for players that aren't souls veterans or above-average at games in general. It just makes the game worse outright when you have those loading screens unless you like the idea of people you don't know having to waste time for no real reason.

itt we force memes

>>385320096
>comparing having to farm vials yourself, by actively farming them, to sitting at a Bonfire and instantly having all your healing items replenished and you can do this an infinite number of times.

>>385320371
>Need to grind in some cases to use weapons at all
if you are going to "get all" or trophies or shit ? yes you need to grind if you dont enjoy the game

>>385320371
>lifegems are fine because you dont need to grind for them unless you need a crutch
>but the literal same system except less broken isn't fine because i don't have 6 free health bars every 15 feet when I hit a bonfire

>>385320264
Underrated post, a lot of people don't realize that fallout 3's healing system is like blood vials with all the bad, but none of the good.

>>385320663
The only bad thing about blood vials is that they exist.

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>>385313774
Not really. The vials are faster and therefore easier to spam in fights. The limited resource aspect of it is bad because the punishment is literal braindead grinding that is tedious and time consuming, ESPECIALLY at launch. Due to no respawn at the lantern, the double load time was a big fuck you to people that actually needed to use them, and during a first playthrough the instinct isn't really to spend your experience/currency on loads of healing items when the alternative is leveling up, and no, on the first playthrough the idea of buying vials while they are cheap isn't really a thing. And also,
>git gud
sure is an argument, but it's a poor one when you contrast the fact that vials are easier to use compared to estus in the first place you fucking casual.

>>385320170
Damn, one enemy. You sure showed me.
>>385320506
There's no point. Farming for vials just wastes time, it's a slog. Even if it can be done quickly I just want to play the game
Farming isn't hard
It's not fun
It's not skillfull
It's a waste of time.
Bonfire is a quick second to rest and I'm back to playing through the game

>>385319006
Im pretty sure it was just as fast as ds1, stop shitposting

>>385320984
>Damn, one enemy. You sure showed me.
Every enemy with a gun can and will do it. Enemies without guns will counter hit you for more damage than a riposte would hit you for anyway.
>Farming isn't hard
>It's not fun
>It's not skillfull
>It's a waste of time.
You know what else it isn't? Required.

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>he needs healing items

>>385313774
>>385320728
BB is by far my favorite Souls game and I think people vastly exaggerate the Vials problem but it could have been executed better, especially the fact that in the late-game enemies basically stop dropping vials AND they get fairly expensive in the shop. They should have made it so you always respawn with 5 vials and that beating a story boss always rewards with you 15 or 20. The biggest thing that annoys me about it is that even if you beat the boss you still have to go grind afterwards if you run out of vials unless you want to spend ALL your boss souls on vials.

>>385320653
The issue is the fact that vials are your ONLY option for healing beyond rally. I didn't want to fuck around getting more healing items in DS2, and I didn't have to. In BB, I need to have vials farmed if I want to have healing available at all. And surprise surprise, on my first playthrough I didn't get through the game without getting hit, not unlike most other people. Scream git gud as much as you want, but the healing system is flawed for those that need it. And that's the thing. If you're already good, you don't need the vials, and therefore any issue with it is non-existant to you. But for those that the vials are intended to be used by, it's fucking horrendous in comparison to the estus flasks.
>but the literal same system except less broken isn't fine because i don't have 6 free health bars every 15 feet when I hit a bonfire
Nigger the vials give you fucking 8 health bars from the fucking get go, which the estus flasks do not. AND they're easier to use. The ONLY thing about them that limit how useful they are is scarcity and the only real consequence is having to go farm the fuckers. It's not even a fucking good consequence as it is.

>>385315542
>over an hour of grinding
Laughing My Fucking Ass Off
if you're *really* so shit that you need to grind for vials in the first place, you can get hundreds in minutes just by killing shit in central yharnam
disgustingly weak bait

>>385321331
>Wow it's only a problem if you're not good at the game from the start
>it's not even a problem because you can just go farm it in this place right here that I know from experience after having played the game
>Just git gud man my arguments are not at all completely skewed because of already having beaten the game and thus know all the tricks about it that I expect others to know
I know that's not exactly what you're saying, but fuck me if it doesn't sound like it. Re-read any arguments you make and then remove those that require people to have prior experience or knowledge about the game you cockmongler.

>>385321325
>I didn't want to fuck around getting more healing items in DS2, and I didn't have to
I didn't want to fuck around getting more healing items in BB, and I didn't have to. Unlike DS2, BB doesn't have a casual healing mechanic along with throwing lifegems at you if you ever decide to co-op with anyone like DS2 does.
>baaaw if I'm bad I get punished
Don't be bad then

>>385314868
nice meme dude =)

>>385321325
>Nigger the vials give you fucking 8 health bars from the fucking get go, which the estus flasks do not
Are you fucking insane? Estus has a flat healing amount so you get a full bar from every one near the beginning and you start with ten in DS1. You start with only 2 in DS2, but you also get lifegems thrown at you in DS2.

>>385313563
Which kind of retard are you?
The one who claims it's bad because game showers you with them and you have 600 stored before you kill Rom or the scrub that farms after trying repeatedly to heal spam through bosses instead of learning their moves?
The later group is bigger but I'm giving you the benefit of doubt so don't disappoint me.

>>385321325
Agreed, From needs to stop punishing players for being shit at their game. You shouldn't lose your souls on death either.

>>385321325
Please don't ever play any hard games. You'll have an aneurysm.

>>385321331
>lel I was a grandmaster of bloodborne the moment I picked up the controller.
I bet you never even got hit in your first playthrough and never leveled and used only your fists to.

>>385321593
>that i know from having played the game
Yes, I know about Central Yharnam because I played the game for 5 minutes and, having an IQ higher than 3, I figured out that the very first area in the game had lots of easy to beat enemies that drop lots of blood vials, as well as a fair amount of blood echoes that I can use to buy even more vials at the messenger bath.

You get 20 fucking heals and can regain any health you lost for free after taking damage. Enemies frequently drop shitloads of them throughout a normal run of the game. If you are running out of vials then you are just bad at the game, plain and simple.

2/10 made me reply.

Life gems
Grass

>>385321754
No you don't. you start with five in one. you have to kindle a bonfire to get more. the bonfire at firelink starts with a extre kindling, none of the others do.

>>385322004
No, I got my ass kicked pretty well, but I had more than enough blood vials saved up from playing through the levels, as well as spending whatever echoes I had leftover after leveling up on blood vials as well.
>the absolute state of video game players today
baka

>>385322018
>IQ higher than 3
Anon you're expecting too much from a DS2 fanboy.

>>385322097
>No you don't. you start with five in one.
Yeah during the fucking tutorial. As soon as you leave you get 10 from firelink shrine which there are shortcuts to every 10 estus vials or so, conveniently.

>>385314151
You don't "have" to use anything.
You don't have to use blood vials either. Just, you know, don't fucking get hit.

>>385322129
I'm the anon you replied to and DS2 is my favourite game (not counting bloodborne) :c

>>385322004
No I'm just not fucking trash at videogames because I've played real action games that have no healing items or punish you for using them, where I didn't use healing items

>>385322206
Grats, you're one of the few DS2 fans with an IQ higher than 3. Most people who like it don't have a high IQ because the game is objectively the worst in the series and before you accuse me of being a hater/bandwagoner I have 1000 hours in DS2

>>385314868
I bet you consumed all of those fire keeper souls didn't you? They did the same thing as estus shards as long as you turn them in to the keeper and not fucking use them like souls and waste them.

>>385313563
I prefer this to several hundred various healing and mana/spell cast restoring items you can have on you in DeS or DS1/2.
You can actually see who can play the game and who's a shitter just from their reaction.

>>385313563
Easy.
Demon's souls.

>>385322281
Wrong, faggot, they do the same thing as undead bone dust, you fucking retard. Fucking DS2 contrarians not even playing the game they fellate.

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>>385314771
>grinding blood vials
>being this shit

>>385322276
I personally think DS3 was the worst in the series, since it was so (no pun intended) soulless, and wanted to be fast like bloodborne while playing like dark souls 1, and it failed at both those things. Dark Souls 1 is objectively the best game of the 3, but I prefer Dark Souls 2 just because, in my """opinion""", the good things it does far, far outweigh the bad things it does.

>>385313774
I disagree with OP, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that Estus is not the bestus. It is. It just does what a healing system is supposed to do - makes you value your health, and nothing more (unlike vials which you have to manage separately, and retarded grasses and lifegems which give you insanely overpowered high total healthpool).

>>385322491
See, DS2 felt exactly the same way to me, except unlike DS3, it wasn't fun or difficult either.

>>385313629
So much this.

>>385313563
I liked them for what they were but they should have been less effective and free like estus. Or just free. The best thing about the Old Hunters was that they gave you a place to farm blood vials and bullets with little difficulty.

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>this thread again

>>385322572
I absolutely hated Dark Souls 2 when I first played it, since it didn't look or even feel like a souls game, and I never got further than the last giant before I got sick of it and quit. Now I've platinumed it twice, on PS3 and PS4.

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>>385321754
Vials fucking heal 40% baseline. Take that times 20. Is this a bit hard for you buddy? Or did you just not notice it always did that?

>>385321682
Good for you, you hardcore gamer you. Not everyone is great at games the first time around, and that's kind of the issue at the core of things. And it's fine to punish people for being bad, I don't mind losing souls if you die twice for instance. But the punishment for running out of healing when you need it to advance because of lacking skill is just bad. Not even a punishment that's interesting or changes up shit like blood stains do. Just outright go farm and deal with loading times. I wouldn't mind the vial system if that part wasn't so obnoxiously bad. It's fucking atrocious. If you don't have to deal with it, good for you. But the system is bad, period, because of the fact that those that need it get a boring and unsatisfying punishment. No part of the way the system works is FUN. On any level. The git gud issue isn't even a part of this. It's like saying Megaman X6 is a good game because even if the game is terribly balanced and has completely bullshit segments it's fine because just git gud. It's a non-argument of the highest degree, because it simply does not address the issue, but merely disregards it. It's so lacking in any kind of intellect that you might as well not post, because that's how little substance your post has.

>>385316861
I liked it

>let myself get bones broken/cut/shot etc
>only bandage them and let health regen do the rest
>end the game with a fucked up looking xray with a ton of bullets and fractures and scars everywhere, I even had one of the fear's bolts sticking out of me permanently because I didn't remove it and because the wound healed I didn't have the option to remove it


I wish I could have screenshotted that but that was like over 10 years ago on PS2, rip

>>385322853
>Vials fucking heal 40% baseline.
And estus heals 100% at the start and if you're not a retard who doesn't explore evens out near 40% at endgame when they're least effective and you'll basically always have 20. So unless you, for some reason, go the entire game without killing Pinwheel until the very end, they start more effective and plentiful than blood vials and even out to being just as effective (in a game where things hit half as hard and half as fast).

>>385313625

You know that life gems stack right? Just pop two or four real quick and you can heal your entire life bar in two seconds.

If you actually learn the boss movements and heal at the right time instead of just running around, there is no way you will die.

>>385322853
More or less.
I don't care how good you are. when you first started the game you ran out of vials, it's a problem that everyone had, especially on hard bosses. and you would have to fucking grind for a hour or two to get your fucking vials back. it isn't even a punishment, it's a oversight. the devs figured you would never run out of vials.

>>385322129
Not even a DS2 fanboy there buddy. The lifegem is a shitty healing system too, but at least I can ignore it for the most part. DS2 is the weakest entry in the series and it still has a better healing system than BB. The only game that has a worse healing system is fucking DeS with the grass bullshit. Vials are trash, and people that say git gud are missing the part where vials are the more overpowered counterpart to any healing system in the series.

>>385322853
>VIALS ARE TOO HARD
>VIALS HEAL TOO MUCH AND MAKE IT TOO EASY
make up your mind faggot.
>Not everyone is great at games the first time around, and that's kind of the issue at the core of things.
Yes, the core issue is always shit players being bad and blaming the game for punishing them for being shit.
>I don't mind losing souls if I die
Losing souls when you die is okay, but losing souls for healing isn't. Understood; this means your argument is "I hate healing vials because I'm bad and needed to grind for them as a crutch".
>Just outright go farm and deal with loading times.
You could also try getting good at the game instead of farming like a crutch. I bet you're the same kind of faggot that complains about grinding in SMT games.

>>385323012
>And estus heals 100% at the start
No they don't. IIRC they heal s set amount of HP. just because you have low health at the start of the game does not make them eternal full heals.

>>385322853
>I had to grind
Shitter confirmed. Stop being bad and abusing crutches or deal with it.

Vials and grasses from Demon's are the worse healing itens.

>>385322853
You don't seem to understand. There is a demonstrable need not to grind in Bloodborne, like most games that offer grind as a crutch.
Just like DS2 apologist's "just don't grind for blood gems lmao" argument that you've already used because you're a contrarian FAGGOT, you can also "just not grind lmao" in Bloodborne. There is LITERALLY NO DIFFERENCE. THEY ARE THE SAME SYSTEM EXCEPT DS2'S IS SLIGHTLY MORE CASUAL. EVERY ARGUMENT YOU'RE USING AGAINST IT ALSO APPLIES TO DS2.

>>385323230
>No they don't.
Okay, they heal 90%, which is effectively 100% against any enemy that isn't hollow.
>they heal s set amount
Yes, which is nearly your entire bar early on.
>does not make them eternal full heals
I didn't say eternal you cockgobbling dickmonkey.

>>385322853
>Not everyone is great at games the first time around,
So why bitch and moan instead of improving?
Why should devs cater to people 'not good enough first time around' instead of the rest?
Not the anon you're arguing with but being shit at game repeatedly and instead of changing your approach you just bitch on /v/ how everything is bad and should bow to your lack of skill is just bad.

Here's an idea ( for this 'everyone was a shitter heal spamming through bosses' deluded anon too >>385323119 )
Did any of you try to learn a boss without spending 20 vials every fight before failing?
I mean you're shit, and you run out repeatedly, why not just limit yourself to some or no vials at all before you're able to take 1/3 or 1/2 of bossed HP down?

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>>385317021
>he didn't go on shitterblack island

>all these le hardcore gamers.
Yes yes, you never had any trouble through the game. your first playthrough was a naked fist level one on donkey kong bongo drums and you never got hit once. you are so awesome and cooool. I really love how edgy and amazing you anons are, will you be my boyfriend?
jesus fuck, this thread is filled with edgy sixteen year olds that do nothing but brag about how epic they are. Go back to CoD faggots.

>>385323017
that's why it's a shitty system, cretin

>>385323510
ur gay lol

>>385323510
Nigger you have no argument the moment you defended lifegems.

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>>385317523
>>385317716
>if you die to a boss and used some of your blood vials you're bad!!!
>grinding a bunch of unrelated enemies will help you get better at fighting a boss!!!!
Kill yourself

>>385323672
>implying I would ever defend lifegems.
This stupid shit is why every board needs fucking IDs.

>>385323012
You start with 5. You get 10 at firelink. You can get 10+ after doing catacombs, which is out of order for regular gameplay. Noone that plays the game for the first time is gonna dick his way into catacombs unless they never saw the path up to burg or are boneheads that just bulldoze the first thing they see. And even then you need humanity and a decent amount of it. Once you get a few levels in HP they don't heal fully and you need to get Firekeeper souls. You can get two rather early and rather easily, but any after that and it becomes a bit trickier. And even then, the one in new londo does require disregard of invincible enemies. The one in blighttown can be overlooked due to the amount of bullshit one sees as soon as they try to take a step towards that area. And either need to return to firelink every time to get 10 estus or kindle every bonfire you set out from to get 10+. Meanwhile, you start with a 20 vial max count and stay there, with a potential for 8 bars of healing on top of the rally system, and the vials are also faster to use. I know DaS1 pretty fucking well having speedrunned this shit a bit after PC release. You can pretend that people will always know what the optimal path to everything is and where one should explore to get the good shit, but DaS1 was the second game in the series and the first one to drop on XBox and PC and thus quite a lot of peoples' first foray into the Souls series.

>>385323761
>implying you're not samefagging after getting BTFO a million times

>>385315163

No it was not, the first was demons souls, where you have to farm for grass if you fuck it up too much, there is no 5 extra free healing estus for retards who cant learn how to play, die too much, waste too much of the better healing items, and the game will fuck you even harder.

Then came dark souls 1 with free healing items, since all those retards cant learn how to play and must need the game holding their hand, god forbid you punish the player for being careless.

I'm surprised that people hate life gems, that old cunt sells an infinite number, and you buy 99 for less than 30,000.

>>385323819
>You get 10 at firelink.
Did you even need to fucking heal before that? you fight a bunch of literal trash mobs before that one at a time then the easiest boss in the game who loses half his HP at the start of the fight.
>which is out of order for regular gameplay
Unless you're not retarded and actually explore before going through what is effectively a point of no (easy) return (Anor Londo). But I guess a shitter who had to grind to beat a fucking Souls game wouldn't have enough of a brain to explore in a fucking Souls game.

>>385313563
resident evil 7, heal by washing your hand
top that up

>>385313774
no they are really similar except vials have some shitty aspects that estus doesn't have.

>>385323573

Why? Because you need to think instead of just drowing in estus every time you fuck up?

>>385323835
I'm not that fucking person you retarded mong.

>>385323819
>invincible enemies
nigger they give you transient curses before you even see a fucking ghost
I almost ate that firekeeper soul and probably would have if I hadn't googled it to see how it worked first just because I randomly stumbled on it before even noticing the firekeeper.

>>385323510
I'm not amazing, I've just played action games before and thus don't abuse crutches like healing items.

>>385313563
>BB
you're ok, can regain and manage vials - no problem
you're shit, have to grind vials
NEVER can have more that 32 vials on you at once
you don't get free pass if you're shit (except for rape horse where you get 5 vials per try)
>DeS / DS1 / DS2
in DS1 and 2 whether you're ok or shit you get some free, upgradable ammount of estus
in all 3 if you grind you can have HUNDREDS of healing items and magic restoring items making it possible to not give a fuck and just spam healing items

The former seems to be more suitable system for 'hard and punishing' games though I can see how it would piss people of if they are too bad and have to farm repeatedly.

>>385313970
Two loading screens is not a punishment, its just annoying.
Losing your blood, or your progress in the level is the punishment for being bad, that happens in all souls games, bloodborne is just the only one that didn't learn from DS1.

>>385324163
>beyoneta and DMC are exactly the same as dark souls.
I fucking SSS dante must die in three. That doesn't mean I don't heal in a game DESIGNED around being able to heal. thats like never using potions or heal spells in a rpg.

>>385324261
>tfw so bad at the game I ended up capping my vials while fighting rape horse

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>>385323184
Holy shit you are delusional.
Vials are easy as fuck to use. You would agree to this yes? They are faster and heal for a straight 40% and you can carry 20 of the fuckers. Pretty fucking strong, yes? On the flipside, they are terrible because of their scarcity for players that need them to get through the game and die a lot to certain bosses. You understand this concept too yes? Or are you a hardcore gamer and refuse to acknowledge these things? because you seem so far up your ass that you might as well massage your prostate while your in there you massive faggot. If you can't juggle these concepts at the same time then you're clearly on the spectrum.

I don't have a problem with buying vials. My problem is that the alternative when you don't have any spare blood echoes in a situation where you can't advance without vials is to go farm more echoes to buy more vials, or to farm more vials directly. Do you enjoy grinding in SMT? Is that why you don't find a problem with that concept in BB? See, I prefer actually playing the god damn game and trying to git gud rather than get the means to even try. Speaking of which, have you done a vialless run yet? Otherwise you'd need to git gud too right? Only casuals would use healing in a game for hardcore games like yourself right?

>>385324437
Except you get healing items in DMC and Bayonetta and they're never required in spite of the game being designed around them.
I can't even SSS Son of Sparda in 3 consistently and I breezed through all the Souls games without stopping to grind healing items in any of them, except for PvP in DeS

>>385313907
you said they're the same and then said they aren't the same

shut up

>>385316861
It would have made this game literally perfect if they made the entire survival menu a pop up transparent menu being used real time instead of pausing time itself and disrupting gameplay.

>>385322281
What? Upgrading the estus flask is not giving it more charges, its just keeping up with your health pool.

>>385313914
sauce?

>>385313907
>Also, you couldn't just rest and refill them, you had to return to the dream.
Use Bold hunter's mark or just kill yourself after you touched a lantern and pick your echoes.
Faster than HD round trip with same effect.

>>385320170
Cainhurst Crow is basically just an ai pvp fight anyway.

>>385324915
It was from some FF Luminous engine tech demo.
Pretty nice short CGI movie.

>>385324609
>Vials are easy as fuck to use. You would agree to this yes?
Not really, I think aside from Demon's the easiest game to get a heal off in unmolested is DS1. In BB and DS3 in spite of the faster healing you also have more aggressive enemies which have better AI that's trained to fuck your mouth if you do anything unsafe. In DS2 Estus is actually molten lead so you take 10 years to take a sip, which makes it harder to heal in than DS1, although bosses are (usually) slow enough that they won't hit you before you get the heal though they'll often negate it.
>On the flipside, they are terrible because of their scarcity for players that need them to get through the game and die a lot to certain bosses. You understand this concept too yes?
They are more scarce, but they are also not terrible. You only think that because you are bad. Especially since DS2 is the same system, except that game punishes grinding unlike the other four.
>I don't have a problem with buying vials. My problem is that the alternative when you don't have any spare blood echoes in a situation where you can't advance without vials is to go farm more echoes to buy more vials, or to farm more vials directly
Or you could play without vials until you get som as drops? It's what normal people do.
>Do you enjoy grinding in SMT
I enjoy filling out the compendium but I don't grind on my first playthrough, but if I were shit enough at any of the games to need to grind, I wouldn't go on internet crusades blaming the game for my being shit.
>See, I prefer actually playing the god damn game and trying to git gud rather than get the means to even try.
If that's the case then why aren't you gud? If that's the case then why didn't you just play without vials when you shat yourself 50 times against Gaston because you're literally so retarded you can't parry, throw molotovs, abuse tombstones, OR find the fucking music box, instead of grinding then blaming the game for what you chose to do?

>>385324921
Going to the dream isn't fucking faster than anything, especially if you played on day one with legit five minute fucking load times in and out.

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>>385323963
Negro, you can go to catacombs pretty early, but not right out of the fucking asylum unless you know what you're doing or unless you're pretending that everyone that plays the game plays flawlessly and never falls for any traps. This is the reason I hate trying to argue shit on /v/, because as soon as a person doesn't play flawlessly from the fucking cradle any fucking difficulty found in a game is directly the fault of the player not being gud, no matter how bullshit the difficulty. Because almost everyone on /v/ is so insecure that they need to uphold their badass god gamer status on a fucking anonymous image board for weebs and thus are never prone to fucking up even once.
>Who needs healing, I beat BB without getting hit even once you casual

>>385324997
bullshit, PvP fights aren't against enemies with infinite bullets.
>>385325090
I didn't say right out of the fucking asylum you colossal gibbering mongoloid faggot. Read my fucking posts or don't respond to me or my sons ever again.
>hurr it's not my fault
If you did not clear catacombs before fucking Anor Londo then yes, it is your fucking fault, you fucking blind ignorant retarded monkey.

>>385325056
>Going to the dream isn't fucking faster than anything
Well, that's what I said. If you kill your self or use mark you respawn by the lantern without going to dream but with your vials / bullets refilled.

>>385325090
I know, it's fucking infuriating. It's like their fucking twelve and need to brag about how super cool they are.

>>385324103
is this a joke?

>>385324915
found the vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv4Boq4HLKU

>>385315448
I agree with you but what would you do to fix it?

Make it real time only?

>>385313563
I liked blood vials. But I started with DeS so I wasn't glued at the hip to estus like some were.

>>385316514
Not to mention once you get endgame you can just kill the eyeball piggies and get like 40k+ souls each run

>>385324103
What you described before is literally "drown yourself in lifegems to not die". Like the other guy said, are you retarded?

>>385313563
Blood Vials are fine, the only time I had to farm them was before fighting the Cleric Beast and after Amelia because I died so many time I used all of them. Even if you're a shitter and keep dying to bosses, you should have enough echoes left over to purchase enough vials to tide you over.

>>385315448
>the healing in previous souls games was so spot on
That's fucking stupid.
It's never ok to be able to carry around 200-500 healing items just because you spent few hours grinding.

Works on my console

>>385316514
>lol you can just grind for the vials
>or you an pawn off rare equipment for it
>By the time you get to late game you don't have to worry about buying them because they're relatively cheap
>You still have to buy them tho

It's just a shitty system. Bloodborne doesn't exist in a vacuum and if From didn't want to just rehash estus they didn't have to go back to demon souls as if we haven't learned anything.

>>385314151
It's not that you didn't have to use them, it's that you COULD use them.

Although Dark Souls 1 had humanity fill that role.

>>385325305
>final fantasy shit
dropped

>>385325889
Or you can just not be shit and stop dying or over using them.

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>>385325045
I'm not blaming the game for being shit, because I beat the game and not even with any significant amount of grinding, I'm blaming the game for being shit to even have that kind of shit in it to begin with. It's a great game for a lot of reasons(sans the chalice dungeons) but the healing system isn't one of them. More aggressive enemies yes, but rarely did I ever get smacked for more than 40% damage until the DLC and that was with barely any extra points in HP, so panicsmashing vials works on top of being aggressive back at the enemy. And I said vials are terrible explicitly BECAUSE they are scarce, and that's only from the perspective of a player who needs them. And due to the way the game works, most players WILL need them, no matter how much you think otherwise. And most players do not just play on without any vials when they get stuck unless they see a decent chance of making it without restocking. This becomes less of a thing if said player wants to save echoes for levels or whatever instead of buying more.

The only fucker I needed to really farm beyond a quick visit for vials was for Ludwig, because I couldn't for the life of me get around his charge attack. I still don't know how to reliably dodge it, people told me to unlock the camera before dodging but I haven't tried it. Didn't help that that one move could one-shot me on a failed dodge.
>If that's the case then why aren't you gud? If that's the case then why didn't you just play without vials when you shat yourself 50 times against Gaston because you're literally so retarded you can't parry, throw molotovs, abuse tombstones, OR find the fucking music box, instead of grinding then blaming the game for what you chose to do?
Implying I'm not gud at the game. I am now, after having played the game through a couple of times. Funnily enough, Gascoigne on my first playthrough was a first-try kill, without music box. I'm arguing because the game had unnecessary bad aspects.

>>385326093
>Enemies never even so much as LOOK at me lmao
>I'm so hardcore that I do no hit runs to wind down after school

"don't get hit" is not a valid defense of a shitty healing system you spas.

>>385326424
Don't get hit by every fucking enemy you pass by several times then you sperg, else there's no way you spend all the vials you get naturally without grinding.
Not even that anon, just getting annoyed at shitter bitching and moaning.

>>385326424
I'm not saying I don't get hit, I'm saying that the game gives you a ton of them without even having to buy vials. The only way you could run out is if you spammed them every run.

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>>385325172
You're implying a lot of things there buddy. A lot of things that you're wrong about.
You said that you'd basically always be at 20 fucking estus, which BASICALLY fucking means pretty much out of the fucking asylum. Unless you mean about 30-50% of the game, which would be more accurate. Anor londo and beyond is a pretty small part of the game all things considered. Basically only lost izalith, dukes archives, painting, the nito fight and the final stretch. Unless you also count DLC. Before Anor Londo can be a pretty fucking broad part of the game.

>>385326659
>Don't get hit

Since you obviously don't need to use the healing system kindly fuck off out of the any conversation that involves it then.

>>385326275
>I'm not blaming the game for being shit
That is what you're doing though. You're complaining about grinding, which you chose to do even though grinding is without exception a crutch for bad players outside ancient NES RPGs or games where grinding is the point of the game like Diablo.
> I'm blaming the game for being shit to even have that kind of shit in it to begin with.
It's not shit, it teaches bad players to get better by taking away their healing and forcing them to learn how to time their attacks and stay on the offensive with the rally system, while also letting colossally shitty players grind to circumvent this like many shitters (including you) chose to do.

>>385314771
If you have to grind blood vials it means you are bad and you need practice which you get while grinding blood vials

>>385326659
Then why even go into a thread which has the intent of spawning said bitching and moaning on any of the fucking games you autist?

I like vials because they add an element of tension. With estus you can run around like a retard consequence free. Your consequences only last until the next death barring curse. In BB you have short term and long term consequences for getting hit.

The original Neptunia.

You didn't have potions as a usable item, when you obtained a potion it let you use it in Potion Research, which would give you a skill called Potion where if you were low on health, MAYBE you would automatically heal your next turn.

>>385326778
>I'm saying that the game gives you a ton of them without even having to buy vials

Yeah the game gives you a ton of vials, but the way it gives them to you is terrible is what I'm saying. If you run out of vials, you either have to grind, or go through two long loading screens to buy some more, it's super frustrating, not even on a gameplay level but just a design level.

>>385326941
>if you don't do naked level one fist runs without ever getting hit ur fukken trash get out of here lol
Go back to CoD.

>>385326786
Wrong, faggot. I said that by the time Estus starts to heal only 40% of your health, you'll have up to 20, which is true unless you're vit gouging, skipped catacombs, or somehow missed all the firekeeper souls.
>Anor Londo and beyond is a pretty small part of the game
I said BEFORE you go to Anor londo faggot, and you never need more than 10 before it because bonfires and shortcuts are plentiful in those areas.
>>385326883
Are you fucking shitters incapable of reading more than 3 words of any post? This seems to be a recurring theme with you faggots.
>>385327084
Plentiful drops from nearly every enemy in the game, with more damaging enemies dropping multiple vials, is terrible? I guess with that logic Estus is terrible because you never get any until you hit a checkpoint and since you apparently need a heal or two for every enemy in the entire game then that should be 20-30 vials per bonfire.

>>385326928
They already have a punishment in place for shitters as it is, adding another layer of punishment and a REALLY SHITTY ONE on top of that is just fucking asinine. Why not just have the game delete your save if you die before recovering your bloodstain? I mean, it's only a punishment for shitters right? Why stop there? Why not just delete the fucking game so you can reinstall it and reflect on your mistakes you miserable failure.

Does this go a bit too far for you in any place?

>>385326883
Nigger people aren't saying you absolutely can't get hit, it's just that you would need to get hit by every single enemy you run into to run out. I never used more than 4-8 vials each time I ran out from a lamp until the DLC, but by the time I reached it I had accumlated so many spare vials that it didn't punish me as hard.

>>385327246
>They already have a punishment in place for shitters as it is
Yes, they have a punishment in place for dying. They don't have one for failing to understand or utilize the rally system however
>a REALLY SHITTY ONE
there is LITERALLY nothing wrong with. I'd argue that they should have found some way to hose grinding so shitters like you couldn't just skip through learning mechanics by just mindlessly grinding, but there's nothing wrong with games that give grinding as a crutch IMO. The only thing wrong with it is that modern era COD kiddies are used to games holding their hand and never putting them into a situation that's difficult to escape so if you offer grinding as an option most of them will, like you, assume it's the ONLY option.

>>385327261
Or have to try a boss a couple of times. people don't commonly run out of vials from normal enemies, but on bosses like gascoine, amelia, rape horse, etc.
If you actually played the game you would know that.

>>385315530
Don't forget it also takes, no joke, probably 20 solid minutes of waiting to heal.

And the only indicator it's working is your clothes slowly become less bloody.

>>385327261
>it's just that you would need to get hit by every single enemy you run into to run out.
It's not even that. You'd need to get hit by every single enemy you run into AND fail to rally back any of that health.
>>385327421
I ran out of vials on Gaston because I rushed to him without realizing it and had skipped a few chunks of the level including a shortcut, do you know what I did? I just found the music box, parried his first phase to death and used molotovs in conjunction with the music box. Not fucking difficult if you have a brain

>>385327236
I'll admit I misread your post the start, doesn't change the fact that you get 8 bars of health from vials from the get go and THAT NEVER CHANGES. On top of that, if you want to have 10 you need to backtrack to the firelink bonfire every time until you do catacombs.

>>385327597
You just ignored the boss and explored until you found that one bosses weakness. Did you do this for every boss so that you never died to any after the first try?

>>385327261
>Nigger people aren't saying you absolutely can't get hit, it's just that you would need to get hit by every single enemy you run into to run out.

Or just have a tough time with a boss, or something. Or maybe you don't fight everything on the way and only end up with five or six blood vials more by the time you get to the boss. There are just so many simple fucking ways to make the blood vial system less tedious, but all of them seem to involve making BB more like DaS so fuck that i guess.

>>385327819
No, I died a couple times, then after sprinting through an extremely lengthy path for the third time thought to myself "there's probably a shortcut I missed" and found the music box looking for it because I have a brain.

>>385327910
>Or just have a tough time with a boss, or something
Literally the only time this could conceivably be an issue is Gascoigne and you get free blood vials for walking to him.

>>385327679
>I'll admit I misread your post the start, doesn't change the fact that you get 8 bars of health from vials from the get go and THAT NEVER CHANGES
So you admit that farming vials is never an issue? glad we agree

>>385327418
>like me
I already said I got through the game with only one session of grinding for Ludwig. Unless that is too much for you? I don't want a fuckhuge amount of healing for a boss, I avoided that in DS1 and 2 by not kindling like a fucker and not farming lifegems ever. But the problem is that I don't have the skill to take down the hardest boss in the game without healing at all. And thus I need to get some. But if I die after running out, that means I need to go and either get a few more every time I fail like that, or just grind my face against the wall that is Ludwigs shitty ass charge attack. Aside from that move, I dealt with everything else consistently enough to find his second easier than the first just because of that one fucking move. If you're so good at the game, could you tell me how to consistently dodge it?

I didn't mind learning the fights in the other games nearly as much because even if it was potentially less healing in total, it at least didn't come with grinding when I eventually did hit a brick wall(o&s).

>>385328006
It was a consistent problem for me until Rom or so.
>Eat 20 vials on boss
>get 10 back from the run to boss
>Repeat until you have to farm for vials

My most vivid memory of the game is just remaking a character when I ran out on gascoigne because farming brick trolls is not fucking fun.

>>385328069
I'm admitting that they have a higher potential healing output than the other games. Doesn't change the fact that if you run into a boss you just can't seem to beat, you're eventually gonna have to farm more healing unless you're somehow good enough to avoid it against every boss in the game. I couldn't, because I couldn't beat Ludwig until after way too many tries. I killed both Gascoigne and Amelia first try, but Ludwig was too much. And a lot of people said as much back when ToH was released. But now everyone apparently is a god gamer and never fucked up on their first playthrough.

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>>385321004
>i've never played darksouls 1 or 3 the post

why are you in this thread anon

>>385328312
Ludwig gives you 5 vials per attempt in addition to a permanent visceral HP gain buff. If that's not enough for you then stop being fucking terrible.
>>385328545
Then don't farm.

>>385327597
>music box shitter
fucking lel

>>385321061
No, much like a weapon isn't required, or stats aren't. You DID do a depraved DS1 first only run yeah? Fucking Christ.

>>385328312
Thats another thing, in das when you were stuck on a boss you could conceivably just run straight to the boss without fighting anything and have basically the same amount of healing going in, plus you have momentum.
In BB you either kill everything on the way to the boss and lose your groove, or rush straight to the boss and miss out on the blood vial drops, or the echos needed to buy blood vials.

>>385328821
Yes that's right, you can beat the game without leveling up only using your fists in every game
Yet these fucking shitters are complaining about running out of items that the game fucking throws at you constantly
That's how fucking awful you are at the game

I think they're fine with the games style of fast combat.

>>385328914
I mean if you're gonna say shit is not required and if you use it you're a shitter, clearly you are just as much of a shitter unless you do an unarmed run right? I mean it's just not required.

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>ITT

>>385329012
No
If you play the game outside the way it was intended you are either
A) intentionally challenging yourself because the game is too easy (IE not using a shield and heavy armor since they break the game in DS1 and make it an unfun slog)
or
B) making up for being a shitter by going out of your way to circumvent intended game design (IE grinding or abusing glitches to skip bosses)

>>385329185
>abusing glitches to skip bosses
That is also done by speedrunners.

>>385329469
Yes, to save time. Not to completely ignore a section of the game on their first playthrough because they can't beat it normally.

>>385329185
So you're implying that grinding up vials is unintended? Seems like shit design if it's that easy to circumvent that intended way to do shit. They already had a way to stop that kind of """unintended""" way of playing, it was having the estus flask be the only decent healing item in bossfights outside of rare items.

>>385313625
btfo

>>385315448
>eating food in bethesda games
>not just getting away from enemies and waiting for an hour which is arguably even worse

>>385315448
Bethesda doesn't make games, it makes modding suites.

>>385329559
>So you're implying that grinding up vials is unintended?
Yes just like grinding in LITERALLY EVERY FUCKING RPG you fucking SHITTER.

>>385329559
Grinding is always the unintended way to play RPGs aside from grinding games like Diablo clones.
>muh estus flask
does not mesh with teaching players to use the rally system

>>385329963
>You get drops from killing enemies
>What like with 100% certainty?
>No, otherwise you'd get rare equipment too fast and break the game
>But grinding is still unintended

lolok

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>>385329963
>>385330068
RPG being a bit of an open term here wouldn't you say? So what about grinding for rare items? That unintented in RPGs too? How about money for certain super expensive sideshit? Grindning does not only imply for leveling purposes you dickweeds.

>>385330206
Grinding is never intended outside of games like Diablo
>but muh rare drops
they're not rare to make you farm them faggot.

>>385329559
How absolutely shit at this game do you have to be to be forced to farm for Blood Vials?

>>385330254
Yeah tell me about all those times you stopped at the end of every area and looked up all the rare drops in that area and grinded all of them out before you proceeded in your first playthrough of an RPG before the end of the game, faggot.

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Shadow Tower.
>repair items using your health
>regain health by using potions
>buy potions with coins found in the game(finite amount)

Nier Automata
>can buy 999 healing items from merchant for obscenely cheap price
>instantly applied
>the only challenge comes from being able to pop enough inbetween getting two shotted

>>385313625
fpbp

>>385330304
About as shit as the average player playing the game for the first time, even more so depending on how many games in the series already played. It's funny, I see a lot of these posts but then I read a lot of posts about how ToH was the hardest shit in the series.

>>385330315
>wow this zone is full of intimidating enemies, I bet they drop something
>wow this enemy dropped some upgrade material, I bet I could get a +6 penis if I killed them a few more of them
Does any of that sound familiar or do you not play rpgs?

>>385330871
It doesn't sound familiar because I don't stop to grind for hours on the first playthrough. Especially with upgrade materials that were almost always available in high quantities 10 minutes further into the game from chests/drops.

>>385330975
Yes you do nigger stop lieing. EVERYONE grinds in rpg's. it's a massive infamous meme. the entire genre, is known for fucking grinding.

>>385331138
Yes, because like I said retards think it's intended when it's not. Normal people don't grind, only kids and retards who never shook bad habits from childhood like grinding in RPGs or not brushing their teeth twice a day.

>>385331230
>Normal people don't grind
Yes.they.do.
EVERYONE grinds. it's something you just have to do at some point. it is literally a part of RPGs at this fucking point. final fantasy games fucking required it.

>>385330975
>>385331138
There's decently often an incentive to grind beyond just levelgrinding. FF7 has Gold saucer, FF8 has cards and weapon materials, FF9 has cards as well and shit like getting your skills taught so you can switch equipment. FF10 has loadsagrinding in general. Tell me none of that shit is intended you absolute mong. You're just so far up your ass that you have to keep trying to prove your sweeping generalization right when you have clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

damn /v/ is really bad at games huh
I had to grind vials only ones for Rom. And that was only because my first playthrough I went full retard maxing arcane for blades of mercy

>>385331436
pffffht, get on my level scrub. I know exactly what all shops sell, what all treasure chests contain, and every sidequest reward BEFORE I EVEN INSTALL THE GAME.
Dont post on /v/ unless you are literally omnipotent and omniscient.

>>385331436
No, fuck off faggot, and the only FFs that *required* it were the shitty NES games (and even those can be LLG'd), you didn't even need to fight every random encounter in any game past 3 or even in 1-3.
>>385331442
You never had to grind for cards or weapon materials in FF8
You never had to grind for any Gold Saucer attraction besides getting all the Battle Arena rewards
You never had to grind in FF9 unless you wanted 100% completion which you're not getting on your first playthrough without a guide
You seem to be mistaking hidden optional postgame content for playing through the game normally
You're also comparing a completely different series to one that has nothing of the sort of those things besides Chalice Dungeons, which STILL support my fucking point because if you do those there is no possible way you'll end up with a deficit of blood vials because those fucking chuck vials and souls at you like no tomorrow

>>385331773
>I'm a faggot guide-using casual cumstain so everyone else is
Stop projecting faggot.

>>385316104
are you fucking serious you motherfucking cockslurping faggot?

DOOM had the best healing system.

When youre about to die you have to step yo game THE FUCK UP and you get healing.

Something kids like you wont get baka..

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>>385314130
Oh fucking Christ, thinking about this game is like having a nam flashback

>>385331801
Nigga you don't play final fantasy games.
1-6 were fucking GREAT. and all of them required grinding, it was just how shit was done. 10 was a gargantuan grind fest, same with 10-2, same with 13, 13-2, and 13-3, same with 7.
grinding was REQUIRED. stop fucking talking about shit you don't know about.

>>385331840
No, obviously I am an elite hardcore GAMOR whose innate leet skillz carries him to 100% completion on his first run.
Walls? Nah my gamertag is D4FukinKoolAidMan

>>385332080
>Final Fantasy fucking 6
>requiring grinding
Stop posting
>>385332132
No, you're not, you're a guide-using faggot.

>>385331801
>had to
Of course not. You also didn't have to play the game you fucking nigger. You're arguing that 'normal people' don't grind at all in their first playthrough based on nothing, and I'm saying there's plenty of incentives to do so. Fuck, I did as a kid around the time when FF9 released. Guess I wasn't normal back then when I saw the chocobo minigame and the treasure part of it and decided to grind through that shit.

And I'm replying to someone else pulling out the RPG genre as a sweeping generalization. Not even action RPGs, just RPGs. Funny you mention chalice dungeons since it supports my argument as well, considering you need to grind for that shit even IF you're good at the game and don't get hit, vials don't even factor into that. So good shit, your argument works against you just as much.

>>385331854
No, NOT getting hit is the definition of STEPPING THE FUCKING GAME UP.
neuDoom's version is made to please ADHD autistic console babby trash.

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>>385332080
>spend hours on an imageboard to the point where you claim games you can literally beat without ever getting any experience points that aren't forced on you from unavoidable battles require you to grind
>just in a desperate attempt to show that you're not bad at a game that you died so often you completely ran out of healing items in spite of the game throwing them at you
You are a sad, desperate little man

>>385332390
Normal people means people who don't have autism and require 100% completion on their first playthrough, sorry. I figured that was obvious since autism isn't normal.

>>385332197
and you're a dumb faggot who can't recognize sarcasm.
Stop breathing.

>>385332680
So you never do side-quests and the like? I mean that's what the chocobo thing was. It wasn't about 100%, it was about finding the treasure hunting aspect interesting and fun back when I played it. Are you so fucking dense that you do nothing but run to the end of the game asap? Did you do the same in Ass Effect?

>>385332792
I can recognize sarcasm, I'm just responding to the meaning of your post instead of playing along with your attempt at directing the argument away since you don't have any points to counter mine.

>>385332639
So you did the superbosses in FFX without grinding beyond what was given?

>>385332919
Side quests aren't grinding you fucking faggot.

>>385333059
I didn't do the superbosses in FFX on my first playthrough because I don't have autism.

>>385333070
So is the FFX Monster hunting part a side-quest and thus not a grind?

>>385316861
>stealth game
>bosses with clear patterns
>getting shot

>>385333110
Idk my dude, it sounds like you're on the spectrum with how you seem to nott do anything but the main quest in your first playthrough.

>>385333171
It's post-game content and thus irrelevant to an argument about the first playthrough of a game.

>>385333314
Yes, surely it's not the guy who insists on 100%ing every game before he completes it even once, who has to grind to beat fucking Final Fantasy games, and who has made 200 threads about how much he hates blood vials because he's so bad at the game he had to grind for them. Definitely not.

>>385332197
>FF6 had no grinding
Yes it did. Or did you magically have relics drop the first time you killed anything
>Lol no I just traded them at the colliiseum

>>385333409
But I don't do 100% the games. I do the content that seems interesting to me, grind or not. I never did the chocobo breeding in FF7 because it didn't interest me, but I did try and hunt down the Weapon bosses. Because it was content that was interesting and available.

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>the main argument on how vials are bad are that you need to farm them
>implying you will ever run out of vials when they drop like candies

L A O M how bad are you at games that you run out of them from save points to save points.

>>385324437
Even if it is "designed" around healing items, you could always git gud and overcome the need for them. It's all 100% lack of skill.

>>385333585
I didn't grind for unnecessary rare drops to make an easy game easier because I'm not an autistic shitter.
>>385333691
>But I don't do 100% the games
Then stop bringing up postgame content.

>>385333720
NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND I'M NOT BAD GRINDING IS A REQUIREMENT LIKE IN FINAL FANTASY GAMES WHERE YOU HAVE TO BE LEVEL 99 AND HAVE EVERY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT IN THE GAME TO STAND A CHANCE AGAINST THE FINAL BOSS

>>385333782
I brought up the chocobo treasure game which is fucking disc 1 content when first available you sperg, and FFX monsterhunting is available at about 60% of the main story in or so? While the monster hunting goes beyond the end of the game, it's still available before that.

>>385333875
>how to strawman 101

>>385333875
I'll take things I didn't say for 500 alex.
grinding is a requirement in rpgs. this is not debatable. it is a fact. It is something that everyone knows about. it is a massive fucking meme that rpgs need grinding. to say otherwise implies either idiocy, or a complete lack of knowledge regarding anything video game related.

>>385334143
>I brought up the chocobo treasure game which is fucking disc 1 content when first available you sperg
And also doesn't require any grind since it's just a minigame.
> FFX monsterhunting is available at about 60% of the main story in or so?
It is also impossible to complete until you've unlocked every area, not to mention locked behind a postgame statwall for the optional bosses.
>>385334161
It's not required at all.

>>385334161
Name the first RPG off the top of your head that "requires" grinding and isn't a grind-focused game like Diablo.

>shitters so mad about blood vials they have to resort to arguments about fucking Final Fantasy's sidequests to prove their point

>>385334316
FF10

>>385328821
holy shit you are so fucking stupid.
>>385329053
never fails to make me angry. especially since the game is so good.

>>385334386
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V4TGR81obQ

>>385334386
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVZ97eOMOQY&t=800s

>>385334440
Never underestimate shitters who never grew out of their childhood obsession with overcoming all RPGs by just grinding like retards.