Is there a fighting game more balanced than Melee?

>>385260245
All fighting games are most balanced than melee...

Brawl
4

>>385260245
Project M

>>385260245
dumb fox main

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>>385260245
coming from someone who uses the actual best character in the game and still can't win

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>>385260245
The only people who think Melee has good balance are those who don't want to hear people say anything about the laughable balance of characters like Fox and many other top tiers whilst covering their ears with their hands like a toddler.

>>385260245
Name a fighting game. Any. It's more balanced than Melee.

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>tfw Bowser main
it's not fair bros....

>>385261356
He's still won more majors than you

>>385260245
Hard to say since Fighting games and Melee are different genres, that's like comparing Forza to Starcraft

>>385260245
not a fighting game

>>385261471
so basically all meleefags?

>>385261547
prove it

>>385260245
>fox
>puff
>marth
>sheik
>peach
5 viable characters, 5 gods

hmm

>>385260245
Dr Mario & Luigi should be in Hard

Otherwise it's pretty solid, based Leffen

>>385262156
gods?

>>385261471
This is why I don't believe Melee HD will go over well. People will complain if Fox even gets the slightest change or if any bad characters become viable.

There literally is no other game where more than half the cast can win a major if you're good enough.

>>385260245
>mewtwo
lmoa

>>385260245
Wait, then what's the point of S and D-F if he's just gonna ignore them?

>>385260245
I dare anyone to find a fighting game less balanced than melee.

"these characters can supposedly win a major because I say so, it's just a coincidence it has never happened in a major with actual competition, I'm not picking the absolute best character, honest :^)"

fags who parrot this guy's lies are ridiculously sad

>go to locals
>some kid named Gohan shows up
>plays my bro in Melee, gets his ass kicked
>plays my bro in PM, gets destroyed
>offers a money match to anyone in the venue, my brother says hell play him in Smash 4 and we dont even own Smash 4
>my brother beats him
>Gohan goes home

Alternatively

>go to PAX east 2017 with brother
>go to smash room, its only smash 4
>play against that kid Zero but he wasnt wearing a scarf
>lose against him by only 1 stock
>brother beats him
>we dont own Smash 4

So uh should we enter tournaments??

>>385262209
Melee is such a stale game that there are only 5 players who can win major tournaments anymore, simply because they've been playing so much longer than anyone else. Meleeniggers rationalize this by making some cringey storyline about how they're "the Gods of Melee" who've tapped into some arcane otherworldly power when in reality they're just 5 autists who can never be topped because the game is 100% solved and they've been training their muscle memory the longest.

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>>385260245
>Fighting Game
>Melee
Pick One

>>385260245
>1/3 of the roster is unusable

Ok

>>385262562
>Things that didn't happen
Ebin

>>385264070
that's better than pretty much every other game

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>b-but same 4 people keep winning
Oh how wrong you guys are.

Was that Melee online project released yet?

>>385264471
>6
woah...

>>385263285
This is hilarious because at Dreamhack literally less then a week ago a non god won. Plup beat hbox and took first place.

Do your research before your shitposting sweetheart (:

>>385260245
>not every character has the same chance of winning
>"""balanced"""

>>385264826
The fifth slot has always oscillated between PPMD, Plup, Dr. PP, etc

>>385264585
Netplay? It's playable on the Dolphin emulator.

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>>385260245
For all the contention around it, Street Fighter V is pretty balanced as of Season 2. Top 8 at Evo was all different characters, and the constant Necalli/Nash/Karin/Mika top 8s of last year have bitten the dust. Balrog needs a bit of a nerf but he's yet to win any premier events so that's unlikely to happen any time soon, and Vega needs to be brought up because he's lost at the moment.

>>385264891
PPMD and Dr. PP are the same person, he later changed his tag from Dr. PP to PPMD.

As I said, do your research before you think you can contribute to the discussion.

>>385264891

PPMD and Dr. PP are the same person you know.

>>385265005
There was some melee online project that allowed people to make tournaments and shit. It had pretty neat menus and shit.

>>385260245
Has dr. Mario actually ever won anything?

>>385265317
No one is skilled enough to use him at high level yet. But he can.

>>385265317

Not anything major no. Honestly he's a little overrated at this point, especailly since his only good rep dropped him two hours ago.

>>385265509

*years, don't know how I messed that up

>>385265224
>>385265242
Doctor Penispenis was a young North Carolina player who mained Falco starting back around 2011 with a thick Southern drawl accent and an Amishman's beard. His high testosterone masculinity even landed him a porn star gf for a time

He's often confused with a similar player, PPMD, who speaks with no accent and plays Falco/Marth, whose low testosterone femininity has destroyed his competitive viability and left him a hollow husk of a man.

Project M 3.6 is unironically the most balanced video game I've ever played.
>basically every character exists in between Fox and Jigglypuff on the tier list, almost completely unchanged from their Melee variations

>>385265317
Nothing major ever I don't think. Just Shroomed winning locals.

Doc can actually hard counter spacies but gets fucked up the ass by Peach and Jiggs and Icies too.

>>385260245
>7 tiers
>entire cast can only fir into 3
why?

>>385264471
This post is ironic, right? Because this only proves them right. The same few players win every time. A non-God (read: ancient player who has also been playing as long as the Gods, just not as autistically) will sneak in a win once in a while, but things immediately return to normal. The game is fucking solved and competetively dead.

>>385265869
Because it's balanced? The only reason you use more tiers is to show how unbalanced the game is.

>>385265476
What do people lack? Does he have a high execution barrier?

>>385265781
I can see him dying to peach and jiggs but how does he counter spacies?

>>385265949
>Melee
>Balanced
kek

>>385260245
Tekken 7 is like that.
>Can win tournaments if the player is skilled enough
Most of the cast
>Same but harder
Bears
>No
Gigas

>>385265910
I wonder what would happen if they banned the top 5 characters. Seems like the game would get interesting again

>>385266028
Just use more guessies anon. :p

>>385266028
>I can see him dying to peach and jiggs but how does he counter spacies?
Doc's up-throw chaingrab literally leads to f-air kill percentages or even if ended early for safety or ix-up puts them offstage to the point where their recover options are limited to sheet-reactable distances.

>>385266142
Considering Fox, Falco, and Marth are three of the most entertaining characters it'd probably fuck viewership to shit and Icies and Puff/Peach would rules.

>>385266028

Well for one thing his recovery is one of the worst in the game. Like it's laughably awful. His movies also lack a lot of range which means he gets destroyed by Marth and Jiggs super easily.

>>385265317
A skilled Dr. Mario can beat any Fox.

>>385262562
Ill believe the first part since kids are edgy and shit enough to do that.
But
>Beat top tournament player
>Don't own game.

I stopped believing in that bullshit magic years ago. It just doesn't happen. If you don't play a game you aren't beating top players in it since they will know tricks to easily fuck with you and pick up on inexperience fast.
Also
>So uh
Kill yourself.

>Samus is A tier
Really? Ive always mained her but though she would be like C-D

>>385266479
This is Leffen we're talking about. The guy who has several notorious losses to Samus.

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>>385266479
The list was made by Leffen. What do you think?

>>385266596
>>385266671
Dont really follow the FGC much, but its nice to know my life-long SSB main isnt irrelevant.

Is there a worse community than Smash?

I can't believe babies first fighting game spawned this much autism because of some bugs that make it "the most comptetetive and complex fighting game of all time" compared to idiots who've been wasting the last 15 yeras of their life with this garbage.

>>385266671
What the fuck were those recoveries

>>385266265
Ban Ics too. And I dunno, I prefer watching peach, jiggs, dorf and Cpt falcon to watching spacies.

That said, jiggs is top 5 right? She'd be banned too

>>385266807
This was before the days of arduino.

>>385266793
>Is there a worse community than Smash?

What communities are you a part of?

>>385266793
t. SF4 artisan

>>385266671
Why doesn't he just practice the Samus MU?

>>385266902
Smash

>>385267007
wtf i hate smash now

>>385265476
That's not true. Shroomed played him at a top level for years.

>>385267267
Where is his EVO win?

>>385267267
yeah and then he dropped him for sheik and never looked back

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>Smash dropped from japanEVO in favor of Arms
>Smash confirmed only relevant to the same handful of over-30 americans for years on end.

>>385267263
me2

>>385267005
He did, and stopped losing to Samus. Now he's pretty ass though and can't make top 8.

>>385267308
Thats literally all fighting games.
MVC is even worse than smash.

>>385267308
>Smash Wii U still in
>forgetting competitive Melee essentially doesn't exist in Japan

>>385260245
only if he puts marth, fox, falco,and peach ''S - can win tournaments easily if the player is skilled enough'' tier would it be correct

>>385260245
smash isn't a fighting game you retarded autist

>>385265949
What about pichu?

>>385267375
isn't leffen also an enormous cunt

>>385260245
Everything that doesn't ban shit to make it fair like JoJo Pet Shop, ST Akuma or VS Jedah glitch.

Virtually everything else has better balance and that's far from a glowing review consider shit like 3S makoto and Chun-li

>>385261141
>Brawl
Pfffffffffffffffffffft. Metaknight says hello

>>385261141
>Brawl is more balanced than Melee

here's your reply

>>385260245
he is right in his statements, he however hasn't specified what kind of tournaments

small locals? regionals? nationals? "super"-nationals like EVO?

everything above a regional event is extremely difficult to be won by everything below marth (except fox, the only argument here would be that fox is the most well known and optimized matchup, but then again he makes up for those weaknesses, especially in NTSC), also Leffen has always had a tendency to overrate Yoshi

but him putting Falco and Jiggs at the 1st and 2nd place is a OK, fuck those braindead ass characters

>>385267610

A massive one, so much so that he got banned from going to European tournaments for a year

>>385265767

>just hit random on the character select
>still have fun everytime

Why can't all Smash games be like this.

The shit they didn't change from Melee is still the worst part though.

>>385265949
no I mean why would't their just be 3 tiers then? there's no use in having empty tiers

>>385260245
>Mewtwo can win if you're good
And yet every top 8 at any tourney consists of 7 fox/falco players. Even the guy who posted it is a fox player.

What a joke of a game.

>>385268803
People just need to train harder.

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>>385267438
>The only People good at fighting games don't care about smash

>balanced
>almost 33% of the roster is apparently unusable

A balanced game has a full roster of viable characters.

>>385264212
meleefags actually believe this

>>385260245
Yes, Sm4sh.

Think of competitive Sm4sh and Melee as two pools. On the right you have Melee, an Olympic swimming pool where there is a deeper end for diving and then a shallower end as well, you jump in and sink or swim and must learn at a stiff curve to just stay afloat, let alone compete. On the left you have Sm4sh, a kiddie pool. The kiddie pool is more balanced, it has the same distribution of water across all areas, and because of this there is no deep end.

A game as shallow gameplay-wise as Sm4sh is bound to be more balanced since there are so few variables and things to tweak by comparison in such a low skill ceiling and floor game. Because the difference between all characters is so superficial since it's limited by the gameplay, they become more balanced.

>>385269021
>A balanced game has a full roster of viable characters
Is there any game that actually does this?

>>385268991
The game's been out for 16 years, that's not gonna happen.

>>385269165
more like on the left you have a 3ft deep inflatable pool and on the right you have a hard plastic kiddie pool

>autists play same game for 16 years
>play the same characters with the same strategies
>think it's a viable competetive fighting game

>>385268992

Dude Smash Wii U is massive in Japan, like a bunch of the best players in the world are Japanese

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>>385265662
No..

>>385269165
Very good post. If approaching with and pressuring with Shine wasn't an option for Fox then some characters might have a better chance against him. Melee's own "depth" helped to kill its balance.

Smash 64 is most balanced
Sure, Pika and Kirby are far better than anything else, but the rest of the characters are pretty even. Even Luigi, the lowest tier, can perform well and isn't necissarily treated as a meme pick

>>385269474
Even Kirbs and Pika can be 0-deathed by every other character but for Samus if things aren't SDI'd properly. 64 is only balanced because every character shitrapes eachother up the dickhole so hard. The divisions in character basically come from neutral movement and offstage recovery or edgeguarding. Everyone's recovery is pretty weak but for Pika tho

>>385264212
Sure if you have only been exposed to party games and the lack of balance that come with them.
Look at a real fighting game like Tekken, even bottom low tier characters like Lucky Chloe, Eddy, and Kazumi made it to the top 8 in Evo. Because the game was made to be balanced, so any character can beat any other character in a Bo3/5 given the players are of equal skill level.

The same can't be said of Melee, so many bad characters get hard countered by others that even if both players were of equal skill level that matchup is impossible to win for the bottom tier character in a Bo3/5.

>>385270385
You know nothing about melee.

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If characters in a fighting game can be separated into tiers, that's proof that the game is not balanced at all.

>>385270707
here's a (You)

>>385270770
He's right.

>>385270812
the only way to have a fighting game with no tiers is to have every character the exact same in every way.

>>385270564
You know nothing about debating, you have yet to prove that 1/3-1/4 of Melee's roster is playable at a competitive level like Evo.

This discussion is about balance.

>>385271152
Not him but

Melee has 26 characters

Here's 8 evo viable characters

>Fox
>Falco
>Marth
>Peach
>Puff
>ICs
>Sheik
>Falcon

>>385271354
Also if we're stretching a little bit, there's also Samus and Pikachu both characters that have made it into Evo top 8

>>385271354
>>385271596
It's not about 8 separate characters, it's about if the low tier characters can compete at that high level consistently.. If not then the game is not balanced. That was the whole point of bringing up low tier characters in Tekken making it to top 8. Since tiers in Tekken are so close they don't matter in Bo3/5.
All your posts prove is that there is indeed "unplayable" characters

>>385270707
Reminder that tiers are community made lists that are basically how high certain characters happen to be placing in tournaments at the time the lists are made and not an inherit value of competitive validity.

>Its a smashtoddler's think anyone outside their scene takes them seriously episode.
Why do people get so upset over a party game?

>>385271862

You asked to prove that 1/3-1/4 of Melee's roster was playable at a competitive level like EVO. I just listed 1/3 of Melee's roster that are playable at a competitive level like EVO.

>>385272289
This whole thing started with people attacking this statement
>>385264070
I made a typo in >>385271152 and was trying to imply that 1/3-1/4 of the roster is unplayable at a competitive level like the previous anon mentioned. Which is pathetic for a competitive fighter.

You have only implied that 8-10 characters are tournament viable. When this whole discussion is about how the lowest tier character preform.
If you honestly think seeing the same selection characters in grand finals for 14 years is balanced, I suggest you pick up a game that was actually developed to be a competitive fighter.

>half of the roster is literally mere visual changes
>WOW MOST OF THE ROSTER IS VIABLE

>>385260245
top kek

>>385262156
>falco isn't viable
here's your reply

>>385262404
>any time someone who i don't expect wins a major it's because it "didn't have actual competition"
lol

>>385260245
Only slightly more than half of the characters in section A have made it to a grand final set of a serious tournament in the games 14 year time span.
>Meleefags will defend this
Your game ain't balanced, no amount of autistic screaming will prove otherwise.

>>385270385
bottom tier melee characters make it "to top 8s" all the time
but, rightfully so, no one in the melee community gives a shit unless you actually win the fucking tournament you low-standards faggot

>Melee Mewtwo in B

Kek

>>385268446
why did he get banned specifically though?
are eurofags just that soft?

>>385265767
Project M is legitimately my favorite smash game. It's balanced, has all the good shit from both Brawl and Melee, and brings it's own good shit as well. There's bad matchups but you don't have any stand out characters like Peach or Fox that dominate.

>>385273886
Actually, besides Yoshi, Doc, and Luigi, all of the top row have made it to grands in important tournaments. If you consider the only important tournaments Evo size then yeah, you're probably right, but supermajors aren't the only thing that exists.

>>385273919
>unless you actually win the fucking tournament
I honestly don't know which side you are trying to help. So the 70% of the characters that don't win tournaments are garbage then?
Ok, well I guess we settled it then. Melee is indeed unbalanced according to you.

>characters make it "to top 8s" all the time
Sure thing bud, look at all that solid evidence you showed me. Show me a few Evo equivalent tourneys that the had the lowest tier characters make it to top 8.

>>385260245
SF3 Third Strike...

Wait, this isn't a troll thread? Are you fucking serious!? HAHAHHAHAHA

>>385260245
It's not a fighting game, so yes, of course there are.

>>385260245
>Melee
>Balanced
Good joke OP

Virtua Fighter 5 FS

>>385260245
Why are people so obsessed with character diversity as opposed to play style diversity? I feel like as far as "balance" goes Melee is the best, because a variety of play styles can succeed at the top level. Why does it matter if say 8 foxes or 8 falcos make it into top 8 if they all play differently? Do you people even look at the options they pick? Or do you just see the same character and assume they play exactly the same?

>>385260245
>Grand finals is a selection of Peach/Fox/Puff/Marth/Sheik for the x1000000 time

Wow, now this is what I call balance. How do meleefags even defend this.

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assuming a magical world where this gets re-released, would you guys be opposed to a rebalancing? Namely focusing on improving the bad mid-tiers and the literally unfinished bottom?

>>385274391
they couldn't handle the bants

>>385261471
t. havent followed melee in like 5 years

>tfw melee isn't at Evo next year because it gets no sponsor money and Mr. Wizard's is tired of them bitching about everything and delaying every other game

>>385276038
i would love to have a more balanced smash game but nintendo would almost be guaranteed to fuck it up somehow, so i guess i would be opposed to that.

Smash would be fun to watch if the Gods branched out their character pool

M2K actually playing Mew2

>>385260245
The only people who think Melee is balanced, only play Melee. Anyone with experience with other fighting games can quickly see Melee faults and how the huge gaps in between it's tiers are inexcusable.

>>385270960
And that's why Guilty Gear is so good.
give me the (you)s please

>>385266479
samus will never win a major purely because none of the top 3 (read: the only people who win anything) play her, but she can easily make top 8 and has done so

Anyone else having a laugh at Leffen's crying like a little bitch about Marth?

>>385276919
The issue with that is they're playing to win and playing for money and Mewtwo is a pretty garbage character. You see M2K using shitty characters like Pichu, M2 and very rarely Roy in pools when he knows he won't lose but that's the only time you're going to see them.

>>385277318
That's enough!

Have at (You)!

>>385260245
>Our boy is bottom tier

What went wrong?

>>385276517
>Thinking Mr. Wizard, the biggest jew of all time, will drop Melee and Smash 4 when combined they make up over 25% of the registration numbers and Melee brings the biggest viewership besides Street Fighter

>>385278347
Crouch cancelling, ass combo game and only having one kill move.

>>385261547

This is an argument a 13 year old would use and I'm not surprised to find it a smashperger thread

>>385278347
Dtilt is pretty good

>>385278679
Unfortunately it's wasted on Roy

USFIV was arguably the most balanced fighting game of the last decade. Even Hakan was used at some points

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>>385260245

>SSB
>fighting game

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>>385278359
He never mentioned sm4sh. Wizard will keep smash 4 because Nintendo signs those cheques. All the big money comes from sponsors and melee has none, all the twitch money goes to the Evo Scholarship fund.
Also even if viewership mattered you are wrong because Tekken 7 had more peak viewers when you include the JP/KR streams with 152,607 total views while Melee had 132,628. Only SFV was had more with 219,568.

You know nothing about Evo if you think viewership reflects the amount of money they bring in. You can see it in the prize pools. Even a game with barely any viewers or entrants like Injustice crushes Melee's prize pool because of the sponsors involved.

>>385267308
Melee is absent from EVO Japan because the scene is pretty small in Japan since people in Japan actually move on to the new games.

>>385260245
Melee<Smash 4
It's undeniable at this point

There are a lot of false claims in this thread, so it's hard to choose a post to start dissecting. I guess I'll start with this one, but this doesn't excuse the rest of the misinformation in this thread; I'm just too lazy to correct you all.

LGTSS: I've noticed people claiming that Fox/Falco take up at least 7/8 spots of every top 8 at every tournament. I've noticed people claiming 8 characters are "viable." I've noticed people claiming that the game is solved.

Do I even have to address this claim? Falco is doing absolutely terrible on a major/supermajor level. This is just blatantly wrong to anyone who watches "top level" Melee frequently. The second claim is much more frequent and would even be disputed in the Melee community; many people would say that this is not true. The issue here is that you can make claims about whatever you want, but if you cannot prove them then they are not true. This seems obvious but here we are taking the tier list (made by voting) and top player opinions seriously with no evidence behind their claims... I would really like for someone to define the term "solved" in this context for me. What do you people think you are claiming when you use this word? I seriously do not understand. Yes, it's pretty obvious that the "Gods" place very high a lot. I suppose people enjoy seeing more upsets at Top 8 region of the bracket and that's fine. I agree. I just don't understand what argument you people are trying to make here. If I had to guess what you people mean when you say solved, I would say you think that the same exact thing happens every time? I seriously don't know and that claim is so objectively wrong that I assume you have to be incredibly biased and/or a shit poster.

>Is there a more balanced game than the game which has a meta focused on busting the game (and their controllers) as much as possible.

>>385279141
>Also even if viewership mattered you are wrong because Tekken 7 had more peak viewers when you include the JP/KR streams with 152,607 total views while Melee had 132,628

You're retarded. Tekken 7 was a Sunday game and Melee was a Saturday game, Saturday games ALWAYS get lower viewership than Sunday games on average. Melee actually shattered the Saturday viewership record(iirc which was formerly Smash 4 Evo 2015 at 99k).

Last year when Melee had Sunday it hit 219k on just the main stream.

I hate fukken word limit reeeeeeeeeee

>>385270385
>Sure if you have only been exposed to party games and the lack of balance that come with them.

I'm not sure how you define "party game," but I will point out that you are making the claim that a "party game" is innately imbalanced and you further allude to this in your next comment: "Because the game was made to be balanced." This is A -> B logic with no reasoning. You have yet to prove that all games that you would place under the category of a "party game" are imbalanced (which you have yet to define) innately or more intuitively put, are imbalanced BECAUSE they're a "party game."

>>385279384
Also to add it, Melee beat most of the Sunday game viewership too which has NEVER happened for a Saturday game.

>>385279392
CONT'D.

>Look at a real fighting game like Tekken, even bottom low tier characters like Lucky Chloe, Eddy, and Kazumi made it to the top 8 in Evo. Because the game was made to be balanced, so any character can beat any other character in a Bo3/5 given the players are of equal skill level.

So, I am inferring that your definition of balance must be based off of the fact that these perceived "low tier" characters are evidently at some disadvantage compared to the rest of the cast, but the disadvantage must be not significant enough to cause characters to not be chosen, MU issues, and so on.

The issue is, I have little to no understanding of the Tekken roster -- balance wise. I have no interest in talking about this game and only am here to correct your posts about Melee. At the very least I know what your definition of balance is now.

>The same can't be said of Melee, so many bad characters get hard countered by others

I would agree that there is a group of characters that have blatant design flaws and objective weaknesses to compete with another group of characters fairly (all other factors equal.) If I had to guess as to why this happened, I would make the same assumption that you made, however. Basically, I'm not sure I know what caused this, but it seems unlikely that they didn't intend to "balance" the roster. This is an entirely different discussion, though.

Let's get back to your claims, though. Elaborate on how many of these characters have "hard counters." You make claims, but you have no reasoning or evidence. :^)

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>>385279384
Except for the tiny little detail that melee players and fans were insistent that they were going to beat the viewership of the sunday games during their tantrums

>that even if both players were of equal skill level that matchup is impossible to win for the bottom tier character in a Bo3/5.

>impossible to win

Kirby has many weaknesses that I won't bother explaining to anyone. I'm sure they think the same despite probably not having the same level of knowledge as myself, but it works out perfectly for this point, at least. People with objectively higher skill levels any many areas of the game have lost with characters that have objectively better tools in certain areas. Games and sets have gone down with characters like Kirby beating characters like Sheik. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

>You know nothing about debating,

>Claims that the other guy knows "nothing" about debating
>Claims that the burden of proof is on him to show evidence for something that he never even mentioned

In fact, you said "ok" in agreement to LEFFEN's assertion and the anon simply carried the conversation on with you having agreed, you absolute fucking imbecile.

>you have yet to prove that 1/3-1/4 of Melee's roster is playable at a competitive level like Evo.

In spite of your retardation, I would like to prove a point to everyone else. First off, I will ignore your comment of "playable" considering it is possible for anyone to enter and choose anyone that they want. I know that you're retarded and wouldn't have the ability to carefully choose your words when describing something like myself, though. It's a good thing I know what you intended to say regardless of what you actually said, right? This is a reoccurring habit of yours that I'm just now deciding to call out, by the way.

>banned for shitposting
>this hard to have actual discussion

sigh

>>385279594
Anyways, here are the results of Top 8 @ Evo 2013: https://www.ssbwiki.com/EVO_2013#Melee_singles

That's: Fox, Icies, Jiggs, Peach, Falco, Sheik/Marth, Sheik, Doc

8 unique characters in top 8 out of 26 is what percentage or fraction? I'll let you attempt at figuring it out.

>>385279384
Good reading comprehension, did you miss the entire part about how viewership doesn't matter to evo's profit? Which was your whole argument as to why melee would stay.

>>385279384
219k ppl waiting for real fighting games to start

>>385279141
>melee has less money than the worst evo game, blazblue
It's not fair bros.

Reminder that FGC fags are loathe to consider Melee a proper fighting game because Melee fags are horrible creatures.

>>385280074
ArcSys pitch in 10k for both GG and BB

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>>385264826
>sweetheart

>>385279594
underrated post

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https://youtu.be/wkF4KuDiRRs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD_imYhNoQ4

aaa.... greatest moments in fightan history

>>385279689
>brags how 8 characters were used in a top 8 4 years ago when the discussion is about character's competitive consistency and not flash in the pan success
>Does not address the main point of low tier characters in melee being unplayable hence making the game unbalanced

Now this is true autism. All the character you listed are even from the A tier in OP's post. The main point everyone is making is that a huge chunk of the roster is in Tier B/C and they never see consistent competitive success. That many characters being unplayable is pathetic for a supposed competitive fight game. Please feel free to write another 7 paragraph post that continues to prove the unbearable autist melee stereotype correct. The key claim of melee having an unbalanced roster has yet to be disproved.

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>>385281260
I have a little series of posts there trying to clear up some things for retarded fgcucks. it's really ugly though because post limit and all

It's too bad gamecube doesn't work on HD TVs.

>>385276387
t. thinks Fox isn't scarily close to being broken

>>385274613
how on earth can you forget about swedish delight taking a game off hbox with luigi at SnS?

>>385281496
im pretty sure there are still HD TVs that accept melee cables
dont forget to find a HDTV thats 8ms

>>385281715
he's close but not quite there. if he was the top 2 in the world this year wouldn't both play floaties.

>>385261547
>eceleb dickriders on 4chan
Color me suprised

>>385281396
The anon (>>385271152) that I am responding to posted this:
>You know nothing about debating, you have yet to prove that 1/3-1/4 of Melee's roster is playable at a competitive level like Evo.

This discussion is about balance.

I won't say that you can't read and will excuse you since the posts are broken up due to post limits, but you are clearly incorrect when you claim that the "the discussion is about character's competitive consistency and not flash in the pan success"

Although, I could destroy you in this discussion, too. That is, if you even respond.

>Does not address the main point of low tier characters in melee being unplayable hence making the game unbalanced

Again, you're asserting there is some "main point" or discussion being had that I need to fall in line with when you don't even know who I am responding to. I understand your confusion, but I do not understand the assumption that I must be confined to these points and topics.

This doesn't even mention the fact that I did discuss some things relevant to this topic. Please read my posts. It should be obvious to you which one's they are by now.

>Now this is true autism. All the character you listed are even from the A tier in OP's post.

You are factually correct. What is your point? Elaborate on why you're pointing this out.

>The main point everyone

Well, let's correct some things. Not everyone is making the same claim. This evidently false by simply reading the thread. That shouldn't take you that long, right?

>is making is that a huge chunk of the roster is in Tier B/C and they never see consistent competitive success.

You are either being lazy or you failed to comprehend many of the posts in this thread. For example, the post I was responding to disputes whether or not

>>385279689
>>385279594
>>385279501
>>385279392
>Actually writes all that in a attempt to prove melee isn't a shit game. Ends up just looking like a whiny bitch because people don't like your collaborative party beat-em-up game
No one outside the melee scene respects you guys for a reason, you bitch at everyone who doesn't worship your broken game as much as you do. No other community is as triggered and autistic as smashers

>>385274391
Evidence.zip

>>385282308
nah a lot of us are alright. these guys are just playin' debate at this point.

>>385273919
>bottom tier melee characters make it "to top 8s" all the time
no they don't. At the very lowest you'll get an Ice Climbers

>>385266807

they look bad because they were covered, but if fox were to try and upB instead of doing the first side B, the start up frames are long enough that it could be hard punished

also, start up on illusion isn't really consistently punishable, its a read

>>385282227
CONT'D: 1/4 or 1/3 of the cast is viable. There are posters in this thread that directly or indirectly disagree with Leffen's claims about the tier list, too. The reason this is important is that there are people who have claimed for Doc to not be able to win a tournament for example or see "consistent competitive success" (however you define that) to begin with. So no, in short, not everyone is on the same page. I would also like to point out that you are conflating competitive success with the abilities and toolset of a character -- which is what a tier list attempts to quantify, after all. We can go into this discussion further later.

>Please feel free to write another 7 paragraph post that continues to prove the unbearable autist melee stereotype correct.

Please feel free to continue to attempt at doing analysis on a vidya game with me. :^)

It will only continue to prove how retarded you are compared to a "Melee autist."

>The key claim of melee having an unbalanced roster has yet to be disproved.

*inhales* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA- Your claim has yet to be proven at all, retard. Google "burden of proof."

Keep in mind, I do think the game is not balanced from this specific perspective with my own analysis.

>>385282604
what list are you basing that on? samus falcon pikachu and even luigi and yoshi make top 8s all the time

>Smash
>Fighting game

Pick one

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>>385282308
You can claim whatever you want about what the intent of my posts is. I don't give a shit what retard like you thinks about anything, but I do give a shit about correcting you and making fun of your inability to reason, though.

Stay salty, fgcbrainlet

>>385282782
None of those are bottom tier

>>385282983
i agree, most of them are worse than ice climbers though which you said is the lowest you'd find in a top 8.

This thread is either full of some top quality bait or confirms smash players are indeed children. I can't think of any other community that spergs as hard as smashers.

>>385283124
They were just the first mid/high tier that came to mind. The point is, you're not gonna find low tiers making top 8 except maybe in a local if a really high tier player is showing off.

>>385277784
Where? Post a link.

>>385283256
young link used to win majors :^)

anybody around NY/michigan/ontario wanna do some netplay?

>same guys every time
>never any new characters
>never any cool new tech, no, v-canceling isn't cool
>every cool combo like ken's is so overdone that at this point it's not even interesting anymore, not like anyone else is coming up with cool new signature moves

fuck me melee is boring to watch

>>385279141
>Melee BTFO

>>385283751
semis/winners/grands are definitely getting stagnant but i find top 64-top 8 or smaller tourneys still very interesting and new to watch. avalancer vs prof pro from a few days ago was very cool.

>>385283751
>never any cool new tech, no, v-canceling isn't cool
>every cool combo like ken's is so overdone that at this point it's not even interesting anymore, not like anyone else is coming up with cool new signature moves

Stuff like Drop cancelling, Shield dropping, Edge cancelling, ledge options, movement options are so underexplored that it isn't even funny. Some players simply choose to not use some of these things when playing and others do but are still in the beginning stages of implementing it into their play.

Combos are pretty dynamic in Melee, but I would say that you will generally see some of the older BnB stuff versus unique stuff. This makes sense at the competitive level, after all.

>>385282308
>No other community is as triggered and autistic as smashers

Dota and League.

>>385284217
i love some of the newer players like n0ne, syrox and zain for these reasons. they're doing shit i've never seen before

>ITT I learned having half of your characters unplayable is actually acceptable
Smashers are a whole different kind of stupid. I thought Leffen was was the worst of them with his constant outbursts but the posts in this thread made me think it might be more commonplace.

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>>385284501
>mfw westballz hits drop cancel combo/shield pressure
>mfw mang0 moonwalk edgegaurds or moonwalk sharks landing options

Why can't fighting games be this stylish?

>>385284869
that stupid edge cancel dair to up-b 'infinite' on rock transformation that zain did a couple months ago was so good i started laughing watching it

>>385285039
Yeah, that Marth trick is pretty hilarious. We need to do something about stages.

>>385260245
Except smash isn't a fighting game

>>385285383
no stadium rules we're keeping it. the shy guys can fuck off though.

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Unlike Smash, with enough work, every single one of these characters is viable.

>>385285569
haha, Shy Guys are interesting. The thing about PS is that people usually don't interact with me on Rock and Fire. I enjoy a lot of stuff about it, but I don't like that. I also think it would be interesting to get some 20xx stages in tournament play, but I understand where people are coming from in terms of being purists, set up difficulties, etc. I just think it would be interesting.

>>385285846
who do you play? depending on the situation i like to pit fight every once in a while

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>>385285704
SFV is a joke regarding balance. They just rotate who's viable with each patch.

Meleefags are by far the worst fanbase in all of gaming. I can never look at this game the same way again. Just let me play my casual party game with my friends, don't turn it into a fucking autism competition. It's dead. Get over it.

isn't pokken really well balanced? like the only bad character is the joke one.

>>385286576
>Just let me play my casual party game with my friends, don't turn it into a fucking autism competition. It's dead. Get over it.
Are people literally entering your home to force you to play competitive?
Are you being dragged to tournaments?
Are you retarded by any chance?

>>385260245
Leffen is stupid

>>385264471
Those nobodies in the list are only there because the tournament was so small time, the gods decided it wasn't even worth the time.

>>385286545
Yeah okay. You don't play it, if you did you'd never get out of bronze, you just go off hearsay. Why do you think can speak about the balance?

>>385268803
>7 fox/falco players.
You're lucky if you see any Falco in top 8.

>>385260245
Yes, Tekken is more balanced. You can literally win with anyone in tournaments.

>>385287609
>Gigas
>Bears

>>385287450
i miss it. have hope for momo and shiz and also hoping west stops losing

>>385285704
Yes, balanced where long time pros can lose to new players. Great game.

>>385260245
Mango won a tourney using young link tho

>street fighter IV is great
>street fight V comes out and sucks
>community moves on anyways

>brawl comes out
>meleefags throw a shit fit and refuse to move on

Why is this?

>>385288237
>I saw that one Core-A video and feel compelled to talk out of my ass!
If certain pros are butthurt that they can't be the best at execution (ONE facet of the game) and just steal wins for free anymore, then good riddance.

>>385288402
People have standards.

>>385287818
Yes, both Gigas and Kuma have been used to place high enough to win points to qualify for worlds in Official tekken tournaments.
In tekken any character can beat any other character in a Bo3/5. No character is unusable to the point you will lose simply for your character choice.

>>385288591
If your competitive game of choice is Smash at all you don't have standards.

>>385260245
DJ Nintendude or whatever won a couple minor tourneys with Bowser but as far as I heard, he is the only person who has ever tried to play a good melee bowser.

>>385260245
>all characters are not equally viable
>balanced
No

>>385260245
Show me one fucking person who can get meaningful tournament results with Pikachu, Samus, Dr. Mario, or Luigi

>>385289331
What do you consider meaningful? Axe is a top 10 player with Pikachu, Duck is top 15 with Samus.

>>385289331
>inb4 someone uses the pathetic example of Axe when he has never won a major tourney.

Im sure on of these autists will pull up a tourney from 6 years ago that samus won and act like it proves their point.

>>385289513
>Duck started in 09/10
>Axe started in 09

It's pretty sad how long they've been playing and they've never won anything meaningful.

>>385289667
True. That goes for anyone not in the top 6ish really. The big problem is Armada and Hungrybox. Without them tons more people would have the ability to win tournaments.

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>>385264891

>>385288402
Don't talk about shit you don't know about.
Brawl almost killed Melee back in 08. Most Melee players had either moved onto Brawl or quit the scene entirely, and Melee Tournament Attendance was at an all time low.
Revival of Melee was a Tournament in 09 that was meant to be the last big Melee Tournament, and had pretty much every top player competing. It ended up doing exactly what the name says.

>>385287818
Of course, since Tekken is a balanced game were all characters are viable even the lowest tier ones like Chloe. Unlike smash where you have to pick from a set selection of characters because if you pick anyone from the very lowest tier you will never see consistent success in a tournament environment.

>>385289809
The difference is the lack of money involved in melee. Only the absolute best are able to make a reasonable profit from the scene while the rest of us cant dedicate ourselves as much as we want to because we work 40 hours a week to be able to afford to attend these events.

>>385288468
>Bitching about people having good execution
>Steal wins
You '16rs are mentally retarded.

>>385290153
>>385289809
I'm a '''''top''''' Canadian player. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful amount of money off melee unless you're in the top 5 Hopefully you guys watch goml though and see me on stream. Aiming for top 32 at least. Top 16 is the goal.

Killer Instinct is one of the most well-balanced fighters I've ever played. It's impressive.

>>385290371
Execution should not be the most important part of a fighting game. It's cool and all, but no one wants to drill out one concept for up to half a year before they're even allowed to begin learning other concepts. It's idiotic and I'm glad execution fags are so BTFO.