Which video games are great but /v/ hates for their popularity?

GTA V

Borderlands 2. Deservedly so.

>>385103698
Team Fortress 2

>>385103698
Skyrim and Fallout 4

COD Infinite Warfare.
I thought it was gay but saw it cheap as dirt and picked it up for a lark, it's actually an impressive fun game.

Breath of the Wild
inb4
>7/10
>played 20 hours
>hate shrines
>majora's mask is better
>skyrim

>>385103861
Nah it's pretty shit
>>385103698
It's not because it's popular it's because the gameplay is shit

>>385103790
Fallout 4 is pretty bad though

>>385103983
t. never played the game

thought so aswell before trying it

>>385104161
Fallout 4 was fine but it's the usual Bethesda's mediocrity. But it's far from the worst game ever.

It's probably /v/ biggest guilty pleasure

>>385103698
Any PS4 exclusive, just as might say that to not waste fucking time

Besides that
Overwatch

>>385104850
>the usual Bethesda's mediocrity
>fine
I don't understand what's so good about it. If I want a pseudo open world RPG I'd pick up Far Cry. At least weapons work as intended.

>>385105303
Because despite the incompetencies, Bethesda games are unique in sense of the scale of it. You can pick and manipulate individual items, characters has their own schedules, there's a great degree of explorations, etc. Seriously, they hold a monopoly of this shit. I don't think there's another game that gives you a degree of freedom like TES or modern Fallout games.

>>385103698
The Souls games, BotW, Final Fantasy's(VIII, X, XII, XV...), Nier(s)

Overwatch and Borderlands 2.

If you're putting games in this thread that are fun to play, but /v/ calls shit, this thread will contain around 95% of all video games.

>>385105652
>there's a great degree of explorations
>walk forward
>ruined house
>enter and it's raider dungeon #25438485
>leave and walk forward some more
>enter and clear out ghoul dungeon #69583
>leave and walk left
>enter and clear out supermutant dungeon #358727
The exploration (particularly in 4) is utter shit. It's pretty much a bunch of monsters and dungeons patched in together. All you can do is enter that generic building full of monsters/hostile NPCs to retrieve a randomized loot chest.
>You can pick and manipulate individual items
You are right, few games do this. However this is a very misc feature that you are unlikely to exploit for long.
>characters has their own schedules
This is not new and neither exclusive to Bethesda.
>I don't think there's another game that gives you a degree of freedom like TES or modern Fallout games
Then you are utterly wrong. What kind of degree of freedom is that? The freedom to clear out that same dungeon all over again? If that's your thing then okay, but don't go around pretending that it's 'freedom'. Freedom equals to diversity of content, which is seriously lacking in F4. And don't get me started about the settlement system which is purely half assed.

I really never got the TLOU hate. It was a pretty fun game. The flow between stealth and open combat was pretty good. It was pretty rewarding to scavenge for crafting materials. It had a really good multiplayer that had a pretty healthy community. And the story was good, despite /v/'s constant whining that it wasn't original.

Biggest problem was the illusion of scarcity of ammo; it would just give it to you once you got low.

>>385103698
Every single one.

>>385106418
People hate TLOU here only because it's popular. That's literally the only reason.

League of Legends

>>385106418
It only gets "hate" here because it's an exclusive and it's popular. I thought the game was shit aswell because everyone was hyping it up but once I picked it up last summer it really was enjoyable with great characters.

and it had a more enjoyable yet harder gameplay than uncharted

>>385106503
This, would TLOU be an Indy game made with the RPG maker everyone on /v/ would hype this thing.

>>385106503
Oh come on, TLoU is one of the few popular games few people hate here. the only ones you see are trolls that hate it for being an exclusive, meanwhile with stuff like multiplayers and Skyrim etc you see a hate thread every day

>>385106328
Now we're talking about the games the casuals perspective who never played video games. The reason many people loved Skyrim and to some degree Fallout 4 is the freedom. What I'm referring to with "freedom" is: the concept where you can go everywhere from the start and the life sim elements.

The explorations elements is hold up by the creative environments. You can say that most areas are copypasted and repetitive dungeons, but they're somewhat something to look at. This is Bethesda biggest strength. They're good at making interesting looking areas that at least will catch your attentions despite ultimately, the interior looks the same as the others and the goal is just kill and loot.

Another degree of freedom that Bethesda game has is the life sim elements. You can eat, sleep, talk to most characters, cook, etc. These elements are not always present on action games. When casuals realized that you can do some realistic activities as opposed just to kill monsters, it gave the illusion that it got more freedom than most action games.

And the misc stuff also adds those experience. Like, ability to pick up stuff and there's physics on each items seems small yet it's a rare feature on most games. Characters having schedules is also a simple stuff these days but not many games have it.

Obviously, it's not a narrative freedom because FO4 lacked of it. And notice that I made the comparison to action games, because modern Bethesda games aren't RPGs.

>>385106418
>It's only on PS3 and PS4, most people here own PC
>It made by Sony
>It's cinematic
>It's about zombie
>Lauded by some critics as the Citizen Kane of video games

>>385103698
Mobas

Undertale
/v/ loved this game during its demo days and the first few weeks of its release you could easily talk about it but after it got popular the haters arrived

>>385103698

>TLOU
>great

It's good but far from original or great. I know it's been debated a million times.the gameplay is extremely generic and run if the mill. That's not how you achieve greatness. I understand it has a special place in young dudes hearts though. That's fine.

>>385103753
No. That game is nothing but disappointment and shilliny disney dollars

>>385103698
>pic not related

File: mUun6CM.jpg (44KB, 634x626px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 634x626px

>>385103915
>/v/ hates anything Nintendo

May I remind you this board is NintendoGaf

>>385107371

I own a ps3 and ps4. I don't hate it but it's a tad overrated. Halo got perfect scores too and a lot of ppl here say it's complete shit.

>>385103698
tlou, gta v, skyrim, overwatch, battlefield, bioshock infinite, batman arkham, witcher, portal
basically any good games that were made in western

>>385108795
Because Halo games are overrated and flawed. The main reason why it got great score was because it was innovative and being the first console fps with decent controls. There's a reason why it was called Babby's First FPS™, it just the kids are grown up.

>>385106685
The gameplay was dogshit and lazily designed

the story was generic not-zombie trash and even more contrived

>>385108947

Wait til TLOU kids are grown up. I worked a circuit city when Halo dropped. A ton of PC fags bought Xbox for it.

>>385103915
People dislike it for being the next 5+ years 3D Zelda, not for its popularity.
Also:
>barely any unique content
>existing content and assets are repeated everywhere
>barely any tools, none outside the plateau (except gale/waterfall surfing which barely do anything). hookshot would've been amazing
>fucked up difficulty and curve, difficulty curve for shrines/koroks is inexistent
>koroks being the Far Cry loot chest of Hyrule rewards you with nothing but relieving you of inconvenience
The next game in the same engine will probably be good because it's just gonna be better in every way, but BotW feels more like an incomplete tech demo than something Nintendo would show off as their only big game for a new system.

>>385103753
I wouldn't say "hate". In the GTA IV threads (probably my favorite ones on /v/ since they actual discuss the game and give interesting interpretations) they all said that V is worse than IV, but still say it's above the most open world games and the criticism is always fair (for example that the missions in V have a lot of variety, but they are on rails with almost no different ways to solve the missions and that the guns mostly feel like airsoft).

>>385103698
>linear
>heavily scripted
>plotfag-friendly
into the trash it goes

>>385103698
Witcher 3
>>385103790
Skyrim and F4 are quite bad though. Skyrim is generic and boring, all quests are the same shit and characters are one dimensional.
Fallout 4 is the same but even worse.

TLOU is /v/'s new Halo. Everyone hates it now but give it 5 years and everyone here will be dickriding it.

>>385110374
>wrong
>wrong
>wrong again

you haven't played it

>>385110563
Not OP but I think the game's "alright," and not bad at all, but it is a bit overrated. The hate comes from the game being considered best thing ever from the media though for the most part.

>>385110669
lol the game is linear, and it lacks any systems-driven elements whatsoever, it only let's you carry a ladder in a scripted event, there is no system implemented for carrying shit, the plot is oscar bait garbage.

>>385110551
>Witcher 3
it's checklist ubisoft trash is it not?

>>385110752
This is the most levelheaded post I've ever seen about the last of us.

>>385108991
the combat was excellently designed
that's the whole reason why the multiplayer was so good

File: peoples eyebrow6.jpg (18KB, 320x400px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 320x400px

>sheeplet games
>great
might sound hipstery and arrogant but come the fuck on

It's more like the I am Legend of video games or maybe The Road of video games.

File: IMG_5463.jpg (69KB, 600x900px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 600x900px

>>385103753
It's weird, when it first came out I loved it and thought it was leagues better than IV. Then online got more and more popular and I revisited it on the PS4, and it didn't really hold up. I think IV just had a better city and characters I guess. It feels like a soulless MMO now.

>>385110804
you clearly haven't played the game. stop embarrassing yourself.

>>385108750
May I remind you that it is divided and both sides have very selective memory.

File: 1458348068171.gif (2MB, 400x242px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 400x242px

>>385103861
This
Rented it at the mexican redbox while I was waiting for my leg to un-break
It was great for all of about 2 hours until school got out and the 14 y/o's got on mics.
Why the fuck does that game have no "mute mic audio" option on ps4?

Anything BGS related.
>but muh toddposting!

>>385103698
Any game that can't be pirated on PC will be hated on vee because 90% of people here are 14 year old brazilians and romanians with no income.

Undertale.

>>385103698

I still remember when the fucktards called "Skyrim" the blunder of the century back on 11-11-2011.

Do the opposite of what /v/ says is gold.

File: 1499872424392.jpg (999KB, 1200x1650px) Image search: [Google]

999KB, 1200x1650px

who was in the wrong here ?

File: 1499843431952.png (654KB, 465x669px) Image search: [Google]

654KB, 465x669px

>>385111380

>>385111416
>one of them is a pure game
>the other is an interactive movie

>>385111416
one is a game
the other is a F tier movie

>>385111487
toddposting was a mistake

>it takes place after a zombie apocalypse so that means the story is the exact same cliche shit that goes just like every other media that takes place after a zombie apocalypse

I'm so sick of hearing this stupid generalization. When will you morons realize that setting is not the same thing as story? Do all movies/games that take place in the wild west have the exact same plot? What about all movies/games that take place in a LOTR-like fantasy world? Yeah didn't think so

>>385111416

It only takes one to give a 10/10 before they all start on the bandwagon. How many games got a 10 from a just one or two major reviewers?

>>385103698
/v/ is a nest of contrarian-hipsterism and brand loyalty. The only time the shitposters have been right was with No Man's Sky, but a broken clock is right twice a day. The contrarian-hipster nature of these fuckers cheapens the people that have legitimate reasons to dislike something.

You make a thread about anything you're looking forward to and half of it will be shitposts. You make a thread about something you think is good and half of it will be shitposts. People are certainly allowed to have differing tastes and opinions but man, this place loves to get off on hating for the sake of hating. I fucking love it whenever /v/ is wrong, and that's like 99% of the time.

If /v/ says something is shit, it's possible they're right, but the possibility that they are wrong is much much MUCH higher.

File: PS_Messages_20170307_172415.jpg (471KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

471KB, 1920x1080px

Zero Daen is fucking great and is being shit on just because its exclusive and theres one shitty sidequest
>>385103861
Nah, BO3 is better

>>385111514
spotted the nintwoyearold

File: IMG_5453.jpg (34KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 500x375px

>>385111794
Not a game, but I'm fairly certain the movie "Girls Trip" was given one favorable review that mentioned "muh black grill MAGIC ;)" and then everyone else gave it a good review because they didn't want to be seen as a DRUMF 2 SCOOP BIGOT.

>>385103698
TLOU. Skyrim. BoTW. Horizon Zero Dawn. Overwatch. DOTA2. I will never get over how much DOOM BTFO'd /v/.

>>385111721

But the plot is almost the same in every zombie/apocalypse story including tlou.

>she holds the cure
>they want her
>he protects her

That's never been done before. I mean they do it well but it lacks originality. The gameplay is where it's really not 10/10. I'd be ok with a 9 for having great production values but to force it as a classic is sad.

>>385103698
Everything that Sony does. Also everything new from Bethesda and Rockstar.
Sometimes I love how autistic /v/ can be when something is popular.

>>385111721
>When will you morons realize that setting is not the same thing as story?
Yeah. Because it's totally not a fucking I am Legend/Word War Z/Maggie rippoff with a clumsy Children of Men motif thrown into it for good measure. Sure. Because Zombie genre is still defined by Romero movies.

Fuck me. I don't think Last of Us is terrible, but people pretending that it's also anything else than a generic fucking Holywood story doing nothing but executing boring old worn-out zombie story clichés with a little higher production values and professionalism than usual are fucking delusional.

It's like pretending that Uncharted is totally so much more than just a generic videogame itteration on National Treasure.

>>385111416
One got scored on narrative and cinematic merit.
The other got scored on gameplay.

>>385103698
"Sometimes popular things are popular for a reason: because they're good". Yahtzee.

/v/ hate that.

>>385104850
>>385103790
Fallout 4 was a horrible rpg game. maybe a good building game. but fallout wasnt meant to be minecraft.

>>385112235
>horrible rpg game
Never played the game, but how about you measure the game's package as a whole and not whatever genre you've pigeonholed it into?

>>385112601
Dude, are you saying that people expecting a game called "Fallout", in a long series of Fallout games that were exceptionally renowned for their RPG qualities, carrying the genre label RPG all around it's box-arts and promotional materials, by a developer that is world-wide renowned RPG developer are "pigeonholing" it?

The fuck?
It's shit game all around, but it's STILL a part of an RPG series and it sells itself as an RPG, so judging it by it's RPG merrits is entirely fucking normal.

>>385103698
Any AAA game.

Any indie game that's fun but gets popular and amasses a huge fanbase.

Any CRPG that isn't Baldur's Gate 1/2.

File: 1500537802847.gif (1MB, 268x300px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 268x300px

>>385103753
Yeah no. It sucks.
>>385103698
I think tlou is a great game but it became SJW with the DLC and the sequel will be nothing but more bullshit instead of what made the original great. The AI isn't the best but still, very strong game. I think it mostly suffers from the sameness from their other games that look/play the same so people don't have a fresh experience with tlou.

>>385112823
>Dude, are you saying that people expecting a game called "Fallout", in a long series of Fallout games that were exceptionally renowned for their RPG qualities, carrying the genre label RPG all around it's box-arts and promotional materials, by a developer that is world-wide renowned RPG developer are "pigeonholing" it?

Yes, I am. It has RPG elements, it counts. RPG is also a broad term, and I don't mean "hurr you play a role." RPG is ridiculously broad. Sure it does not fit what you expected but that's not qualify it as a bad game.

>The fuck?
>It's shit game all around, but it's STILL a part of an RPG series and it sells itself as an RPG, so judging it by it's RPG merrits is entirely fucking normal.

A game not being what you expected does not make it shit. Being a bad game all-around does that. Metroid Prime is a shitty first person shooter, but it's a good fucking game. The first Mass Effect is a shitty RPG by the standards of some people, but it's also a good fucking game.

>game critics are shit
>casuals being casuals
>channels and websites that make video game content also being shit

it's like you want me to defend /v/

>>385113295
>RPG is ridiculously broad. Sure it does not fit what you expected but that's not qualify it as a bad game.
So, again, several things. No, the term RPG is not riddiculously broad. It's not straight forward in use, but it actually has a pretty clear-cut meaning.
Second of all, calling out a game that explicitly presents itself as an RPG and is a descendant of a family of famous, genre-defining RPG's, utterly failing in it's RPG elements is entirely fucking justified.
If somebody releases a sequel to Ill-2 Sturmovik, sells it as a realistic WW2 plane simulator, only to reveal that it's mostly a shallow ground combat arcade game, he deserves to be crucified.
Finally: THE GAME SHIT mostly because it really is an RPG, the mechanics really in majority still rely on RPG sensibilities - but at the same time they are terrible. It's not like it's good shooter, or a good fucking settlement simulation. It's an RPG, it's just a bad one. It sells itself as one, it is designed as one, majority of the gameplay is set up on the premise of being an RPG.

Yet it's badly done.

>> A game not being what you expected does not make it shit.
Game not being what itself PROMISES TO BE does make it shit, actually. It's in fact one of the most reliable ways to define "quality" of a game - fit between what the developer promises and how well it delivers on that promise.

>>385114240
>No, the term RPG is not riddiculously broad.
Please define RPG as succinctly as possible.
>Game not being what itself PROMISES TO BE does make it shit
>You promised me Sushi, therefore this ceviche no matter how excellent is shit!

K buddy.

>>385114557
>Please define RPG as succinctly as possible.
RPG is a category of mechanics, not actually a game genre to begin with.

With that in mind, RPG game is based around the idea of establishing a character through a set of abstracted values representing the characters traits. The problem solving in RPG mechanics is based around those values (characteristics or traits) working as factors limiting your currently available problem-solving options from the total problem-solution-list to only those compatible with your characteristics.
The final condition you need to call something an RPG mechanic is a level of dynamics to the value sheets - e.g. your characters traits evolve and grow over time.

That is it. Those are RPG mechanics.
They can be further combined with other systems (games that limit RPG mechanics to combat-related problems are usually called cRPG's, for an example).
They can also be present but not central to a game at all (such as say, RPG elements in otherwise primarily sandbox/action games or multiplayer shooters, for an exmeple).

We usually call a game "an RPG" when the main bulk of game complexity or mechanics are directly tied to these.

>>385115050
>combat-related problems are usually called cRPG's, for an example).
Meant to say ARPG's, not cRPG's, sorry. cRPG's are usually the opposite - games that actually expand the problem-solving systems related to character values far beyond the combat systems. Like classic Fallout games used to do.

ARPG's use RPG mechanics but limit them mostly to combat-related problems. Like say, The Witcher games do.

>>385115257
>>385115050
Okay, so what exactly is missing from FO4 that qualifies it as a bad RPG then?

>>385115257
>>385115050
>Leveling
Check
>Stats
Check
>Build specialization
Check
>Perks
Check
>Dialogue with choices
Check
>Companions
Check
>Crafting
Check

>Can some of these features be combined to determine varying outcomes to specific actions
Check

>Can these features be used to solve or pass things in the game
Fucking check

>>385115583
Well, meaningful problem-solving, especially one that would actually properly reflect the character traits as player establishes them.

>>385116020
>meaningful problem-solving
That is subjective and entirely up to each individual as to what counts as a 1. Problem and 2. Meaningful.
You've boiled your definition down to subjectivity, which exactly proves my point. RPG is broad.

>>385108991
nice bait, too obvious though

>>385110374
you haven't played it obviously, but I suppose people like you are why MOBAs and capeshit are so popular

>>385103698
Horizon Zero dawn but v hates it more because of a unjustified fear that it is sjw crap rammed down everyone's throat.

>>385110563
except nobody hates it now

most posts hating it are trolls posting the same bait

it is a singleplayer linear game that is PS4 exclusive and won GOTY over GTA V, that's quite an achievement

>>385115961
So much wrong with this.
First of all: did you even fucking read the bloody post I made. ABSOLUTE MAJORITY of the conditions you provide are not actually necessary conditions of an RPG. Companions, dialogue with choices or fucking crafting are in fact not specific to RPG's AT ALL.

Second of all: I'm not saying it's not an RPG. I'm saying it's fucking awful one.

>>385116330
>That is subjective and entirely up to each individual as to what counts as a 1. Problem and 2. Meaningful.
No, that really isn't. It's no less subjective than quality of a character in a book. You really don't know what the word "subjective" means (like most poor victims of this era), and you just misuse it to throw around when you are out of actual arguments.

>>385110804
go play RUST, the forest or some other unfinished "open world" garbage you underage

>>385111514
>>385111684
>>385112197
you haven't even played the game you underage nintentoddler

>>385116741
>It's no less subjective than quality of a character in a book.
Not a valid argument, if quality is subjective, then your definition based on specificity is absolutely not relevant.

> You really don't know what the word "subjective" means (like most poor victims of this era), and you just misuse it to throw around when you are out of actual arguments.

I implore you to look up what subjective means before making this argument even more semantic that it already is.

>>385112857
all aaa games are great? all crpgs are great? are you retarded?

>>385117382
>Not a valid argument, if quality is subjective
It's not.
It's normative.

>then your definition based on specificity is absolutely not relevant.
It's not "definition on specifity". It's just a most basic, common, every day critical practice. That is why I brought it up: just like critics can and will criticize books or movies for having poor characters or bad acting or terrible style or poorly flowing dialogues, games can be criticized on quality of their narratives and their mechanics.

>I implore you to look up what subjective means before making this argument even more semantic that it already is.
What a fucking joke, kid. Your understanding of "subjective and objective" is barely on an elementary school kid level, so why don't you go fuck yourself, then maybe read something on epistemology, personal and social, and maybe come back and try again.

>>385105224
Pretty sure bloodborne is loved here

>>385117594
>normative
Normativity is entirely subjective though. If a handful of people accept that an something is a whatever it is, then it is normative to that group despite the subjectivity.

>It's not "definition on specifity". It's just a most basic, common, every day critical practice. That is why I brought it up: just like critics can and will criticize books or movies for having poor characters or bad acting or terrible style or poorly flowing dialogues, games can be criticized on quality of their narratives and their mechanics.

I do disagree with that assertion, however that once again makes the argument cyclical. You can criticize the RPG mechanics of the game as being not up to snuff for you, but that does not change the fact that a package should be reviews as a whole, not what you expected it to be.

>What a fucking joke, kid. Your understanding of "subjective and objective" is barely on an elementary school kid level, so why don't you go fuck yourself, then maybe read something on epistemology, personal and social, and maybe come back and try again.

On the simplest level subjectivity is based on opinion, preference and bias. Dude, you can eat a fucking dick.

>>385103698
>Expecting /v/ to like anything ever.

>>385105224
any exclusives for that matter

you got people saying RDR2 is shit 1 year before its release just because it's not on PC kek

Nobody who has actually played The Last of Us hates it. It's only nintendo fanboys who deny the fact that it's a genuinely great game

>>385118165
>nintendo fanboys
Come on man, why would you blame us for this?

>>385118009
>Normativity is entirely subjective though.
Stop spouting words you CLEARLY DON'T understand for fuck sake!
Normativity is based on a form of consensus. If it's multiple people and not merely a phenomenon of one individual person, it's not subjective.

>You can criticize the RPG mechanics of the game as being not up to snuff for you, but that does not change the fact that a package should be reviews as a whole, not what you expected it to be.
What kind of fucking argument is this? FIRST OF ALL I ALREADY EXPLAINED that I'm actually judging the game as a whole. Second of all, this amounts to "you can't say something is bad because your merits of good and bad are based on your expectations and that is not fair because your expectations might not be always rational and that makes all judgement impossible or unfair".

GOD FUCKING NO. Criticism is a good fucking thing. Stop inventing shitty, groundless excuses to get rid of it because it might offend your delicate sensibilities.
It's bad because I can create a set of decent criteria and reasonings that a lot of people will agree with, apply them to the game and see that the game does not actually live up to them. I base my criteria on common sense and logic, as well as value systems that have been established and generally adhered to by majority of critics, academicians etc...

THAT is how criticism works.

>>On the simplest level subjectivity is based on opinion, preference and bias.
No, on the simplest level subjectivity is phenomenological. "Opinion" does not actually mean anything at all, epistemology-wise. The whole fucking "fact or opinion" thing you people actually fucking still take seriously comes from an Arthur game for THREE YEARS OLD KIDS.

Get past it, please! You are not three years old anymore. That is not sufficient ground on which to understand the world around you.

>>385118497
>consensus
What the fuck do you call a consensus of subjective opinions then you fucking cunt?

File: hellfire.jpg (61KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 640x640px

Fallout 3.
Although I get the impression that most of /v/ likes it and it's just extremely vocal NVfags.
This is coming from a huge fan of NV.

>>385111302
Nobody has played TLOU, only watched it.

File: 1494942882402.png (683KB, 900x900px) Image search: [Google]

683KB, 900x900px

Spot the Redditor thread? Spot the Redditor thread.
>X is a one person/hivemind
>"You just hate it because it's popular"
>Twitter screencap
>"Go back to your containment board weeb"
>thinks /tv/ memes are funny

>>385118165

Thanks for speaking for everyone. I didn't hate it but I do think it's one of the most overrated games ever.

>>385118583
>What the fuck do you call a consensus of subjective opinions then you fucking cunt?
A normative? We just have been through that, haven't we?
Though you should be careful to not think of concensus too narrowly. There are many forms of consensus, some of which might not seem very consentual at all at first glance.

>>385118960
The entire point here is the shit you're telling me is rigidly defined is actually not and varies from person to person. It's the entire reason people started breaking RPGs into fucking subgenres. Even then, there's a shitload of differing opinion on specific features. Fallout 4 is an RPG. A good one, debatable. Fallout 4 is a game. A good one? Debatable. Good RPG and good game are not mutually exclusive. A bad RPG can still be a good game since a fucking game is the sum of its parts.

>>385117594
Not him, but what's your definition of a "poor character?" I'm just curious, because mine is probably one that's completely and utterly purposeless in every regard; you can cut him or her out and you would lose absolutely nothing or your work would actually be improved.

>>385119290
>The entire point here is the shit you're telling me is rigidly defined is actually not
It's as well defined as ANY CRITICISM will ever be. Better than most, actually, because I bother to actually correct and improve my beliefs based on research and confrontations.

Your problem is with the idea that people judge and criticize things. Which is fucking sad and makes you an incredibly immature person that literally cannot cope with one of the most important and powerful tool that our society has to it's disposal.
You simply can't bear the idea that somebody somewhere makes a judgement that does not agree with your own and that judgement then can be taken with some authority. Well, you better fucking change that.

>It's the entire reason people started breaking RPGs into fucking subgenres
This has nothing to do with anything. You are still desperately clinging to this bullshit about "wrong expectations", for reasons outlined above. No. Fallout 4 IS an RPG. It's a game. And anyone with even little bit of knowledge, standards, expectations, experience with the genre etc... will also agree that it's pretty fucking awful one. And you need to get fucking use to the fact that that is what happens, and there is nothing fucking wrong with saying something like that.

If you think I'm wrong with my values, ACTUALLY MAKE A POINT. Don't go around saying "you can't say that!".
You have an issue with my expectations? Something that does not fucking start or end with the word "subjective" because subjectivity is something that kills any possible discussion?

Bring it on.
Though I have to be going, so really... don't bother. Just fucking remember that criticism is a thing, and a valid thing to do. And you can't go around screaming "subjective" every time a criticism does not agree with you. Sometimes, the critics simply know better than you.

>>385103698
I don't hate it for it's popularity
I hate it because the gameplay is awful stealth and shooting are both barebones as fuck which is something you're doing the entire game

It just wasn't fun and more of a hassle to play

File: 20081210-filetofish-innards.jpg (32KB, 500x238px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 500x238px

>>385114557
It's hardly even ceviche. It's more like asking for sushi, and getting a filet-o-fish all cut up and served like ceviche.