SMASH @ Dreamhack finals day

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>>384900343
>zero lost to samsora/nairo yesterday, so he's out in 9th place

>>384900453

Has anyone every been so JUST so fast?

>>384900496
2016 summer zero is back

Our guy DaBuz vs. reddit's guy nairo

>>384900686
Void and Larry are our boys

Who you guys pulling to win it?

Samsora here

>>384900905
Void for sure, his Sheik combos never get old. Wouldn't mind him getting a big win here.

Why is Nairo grabbing so much? That's why he lost to Samsora, too

>>384900969
I'd be pretty glad to see void, larry or mr r win

>>384900905
Also Tweek.

Remember when DaBuz was good?

>>384901615
Rosa hasn't even been nerfed significantly, how come he's never won anything big other than Civil War?

>>384901615
he was never good, just consistent. he's been nairo's bitch since 2015

>>384901615

Remember when ZeRo was good?

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>>384901807
>sheik

>>384901748
It's just a difficult char to play. He took someone that no other pro wanted to play and mastered the defensive style that this game rewards you for playing. Anytime he's pressured by someone aggro like Nairo he loses it

>>384901918
didn't mean to quote

>>384901896
>2nd at EVO is bad
>losing to jank 4 out of 6 times
>goes to literally every major tourney so his loss-rate is inflated

Zero is still number one, no one's even in the same tier

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>>384901918
wait,
>no sheik

Let's go Larry

Dont watch a lot of sm4sh, when did mr. r pick up cloud?

>>384902151
When his Sheik never got him better results than #2. It's pretty shit, though, it's like M2K's, just even worse

I miss cocky Anti, hope he wins this shit so we get a few good tweets out of it

>>384902025
There are people on this board who are still mad about his win against Hbox in an invitational. Think about that for a second.

>>384902282
kek, he's officially Mr. #2 now that dabuz broke through at Civil War. doesn't look that's gonna change anytime soon

>Void vs Larry next

fugg i wish that was the finals. plus whoever loses is gonna get bopped by loser's nairo

>>384901615
hes still the only relevant rosa

>>384902507
Both are capable of beating Nairo as long as he doesn't pull out Bowser.

Don't let Anti losing to Mr. R's Cloud convince you that his Cloud is good. Anti is not good in this MU.

>>384902543
um that nip rosa just won a major 2 months ago, at a tourney that DaBoring was at

>>384902628
don't worry it won't matter. Mr. R has already internally given up

>bait bait hit
>bait bait hit again
>bait bait hit some more
>can't edge hog so need to bait bait hit some more
>bait bait hit
>finally knock him out
>do it all over again for stock #2

my goodness this is actually a fighting game that requires skill.

-__-

>>384902628
>Anti losing to Mr. R's Cloud
refresh your browser m8

you can tell anti comes from a melee background. his movement is silky smooh

>>384902857
If he couldn't beat him with Cloud than his Cloud sucks lol.

>>384902914
he's a brawl boy

>>384902798
thats more so just how anti plays

Ike > Cloud confirmed
>>384902994
I don't get why he didn't go Sheik, it really does

>>384902994
doesn't sheik have a good matchup with mario? what is he even doing, you have to adapt to matchups like nairo and mkleo do

>>384903124
Ever since the patch where sheik got her up air confirm nerfed, it has been said that the MU is even to Mario's favor.

>>384903124
Cloud's is even better, and he's trying to improve his Cloud (much needed)

>Larry vs Void
Why did it have to come to this? I'd like both to win but mostly Larry after EVO

>lylat

>>384903513
One of them is gonna have to come from the loser's side anyway, literally doesn't matter

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What did he mean by this?

Lylat was a mistake

Holy fuck, that lock

>sm4sh notation for combos
dash, grab, D, Utilt

>melee notation for combos
dash, grab, D, SHFFLNair, wavedash, A, A, A, dash, grab, D, wavedash, SHFFLDair, wavedash, SHFFLFair, taunt

melee > sm4sh

Void making Larry his bitch as usual

>>384903773
>melee pro player's tournament routine is to get in line to guzzle armada's cum

>>384903773
apik :DDDDD

If you can't appreciate a good sheik you can't appreciate sm4sh in general

VOID

It doesn't matter, Void isn't beating Tweek or Salem.

Take that 30 old man

>>384904120
>tweek
just gimp cloud a few times
>salem
yeah he's fucked

>>384904120
Void can definitely beat Tweek, he's playing especially smart today

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>Salem's fucking hair

>>384904190
>>384904221
>tweek switches to DK
>grabs void at 60
nothing personnel...

does anyone enjoy watching Bayo?

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>Salem's perm to look like Bayo

>>384904190
>>384904221
Did you see Tweek vs Mr. R/Vinnie yesterday? He demolished their Sheiks.
>inb4 Void is better

holy shit tweek

TWEEK IS ON FIYAAA

wtf I love Tweek now

tweek's so good at recovering with cloud

If Salem reverse 3-0's Tweek again, i'll cry

No Bayos pls

Void's got this shit

when's melee

larry is slick as hell

LIVING

LET'S GO LARRY

>>384905792
after sm4sh ends friend, shouldn't be too long

Fox is broken as fuck lol

>40 seconds
christ

>now he will try

What is going on

Larry is fucking shook. Get gimmick'd

NOO

FUck

N00000 FUCK LARRY HAD IT

why does this game have triple and quad jumps?

>>384906186
*ZSS

>>384906809
ZSS downb is an extra jump

>>384906809
What did this idiot mean by this?

>>384906809
Sakurai stopped caring about recoveries after Brawl

Just fuck my shit up

Battle of the /fa/ negros

How to fix Smash 4
>Slow shield recovery
>Buff DDD and Puff
>Fix shitty hitboxes like Wario nair and Ryu uair
>Remove Bayo's insane "priority"
>Nerf magnetic ledges
Simple steps to make the game much, much betterr

>>384901748
Rosa has always been overrated. When the game came out, people didn't know how to handle luma. Rosa is floaty as FUCK so landing is tough and jumping is a huge commitment. Also punishing airdodges is tougher for her since she's so slow in the air. Characters being played have settled and most have the disjoints to mess with her. People were always wrong about her because people are shit at the game.

anti laughing lel

>>384907221
>so landing is tough
Harder for anyone to land against Rosa than Rosa to land against anyone else

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>>384907205
>Buffing Ryu's Nair even further

Charizard

It's hard to root for someone who takes himself so seriously

>>384907342
>reading comprehension

anti is a broken man

he's gonna get rekt with zard

The difference in reactions between salem and anti is kek worthy

Salem is clinical

eh i'm cool with anyone winning at this point besides salem

>>384907205
Nope. You're not really fixing some of the worst issues with consistency in the game. Two things need to be done:
>Weaken defensive options
Nerf invincibility frames on rolls/spotdodges/airdodges and take them out entirely for counters.
>Be consistent with kills throughout characters
Either you give pretty much all characters shit like dingdong/ZSS uair ladder or you give none of them that shit. Yes, Bayo has dumb priority, but the real issues with her are Witch Time and getting death-touched when you can't do it back. This game suffers from one person winning neutral almost the entire game and then losing to jank or the other person just spamming one thing over and over because it's just busted. Look at why Bowser is considered playable at all. Hint: most of the players do shit like pivotgrab over and over instead of actually play neutral.

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WHEN'S MELEE

>>384907793
Salem's stupid anime hair makes me fine with him winning

let's go void

>>384907339
Nah, not really. She struggles to follow DI because her air mobility is low. You get one chance at the 50/50 at best with Rosa. Her uair just covers a lot of area, but she has to commit harder than plenty of other characters to do anything about it. You just think this is true because she puts people above her more often than basically everyone else. Hell, even DK denies people getting down more than she does.

Bayo was a mistake. I blame Europe

>>384907851
>Either you give pretty much all characters shit like dingdong/ZSS uair ladder or you give none of them that shit.
Let's not make Brawl Minus. ZSS upb can be reliably DI'd out of, it's not as bad anymore.

I feel like more and more the character diversity of sm4sh slowly shrinks to where you're not gonna really see low-tier heroes get far anymore in the bigger events. Which is mostly a good thing, the matchups at the top level get deeper.

>>384908185
I'm saying your level of getting kills should be consistent. "Not as bad anymore" doesn't mean that characters who can kill you at 20% are somehow on parity for ones that simply can't ever. The game has inconsistent results because of this shit and it's dumb.

>>384908036
say all again in your head but pretend there's a girl staring at you and listening to your conversion.

>>384908141
What did the games sell more in europe than the US?

>>384908442
You're on /v/ posting in a smashthread and presumably watching other people who are better than you at vidya on Twitch. Why are you trying to act like you have any ground to stand on?

Let's go void

nice shit by Void, didn't choke at the end like we all expected

>>384908627
pretending to be alpha is the nu/v/ classic

whens melee

Hope Tweek goes DK, but I still want VoiD to win

TWEEK STILL GOT THIS

>>384908763
its on right now bro, Marth vs. Sheik the classic

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>>384907876
When's Icons goat boy?

>>384908892
nah this white boy has overstayed his welcome. Void is our Boid

Fuck

Stop fucking saying ding dong

TWEEK IS PUTTING THE TIE ON BABY

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>>384908627

DK so much better in this game than melee. If i ever picked up sm4sh i'd definitely main his ass

>>384909102
the ding is not necessary
just dong

why not fox

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>rage giving you a free win
Defend this mechanic in a "competitive game"

why does seeing a Heavy get juggled so helplessly make me so happy. Kek

>VoiD in grands
Fucking finally

take that tie off boy

>>384909192
the recovery changes and lack of chaingrabs helped a lot but it still feels terrible to get hit once and immediately be at 100% because you have no escape tools
not to mention how weak he is on the ledge if you dont have a punch charged

Spoiler: Salem still wins this shit, and moves to world #1

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Leave Void to me

>>384909251
>staleing back throw
he deserved to lose

>>384909524
Has salem came out of the closet yet, or is it just kind of an unspoken thing?

>>384909494
I'm so upset they changed his ledge attack, it was so good in Brawl/Melee because it had speed and range. Now it's pathetic and probably the worst ledge attack in the game due to the lack of the two factors I mentioned.

>>384909494
DK is only okay in this game because he gets a kill off of a grab so consistently. Him and Bowser would be Charizard/Ganon-tier without their grab game.

The 2 most jank chars in the game. See you guys in 15 minutes.

>>384909712
Rubbish, he still has good tilts and a good backair. He was mid tier before the buff

>>384909712
i mean DK still has good aerials though, good tilts, etc. He's just combo food but that goes for all heavies

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>>384909251
Luigi clearly tripped into it

>>384909712
charizard is pretty decent actually, much more viable than ganon

>>384909524
he looks like a black Tom holland

>>384909974
charizard is samus tier lol, only good in very specific matchups

nairoApex Now he Will Try nairoApex nairoRage

>>384910135
Samus is not a bad character, are you retarded?

>>384909932
>>384909775
His tilts aren't disjointed and his aerials lose badly to shield. He can't even space bair on short characters or low profiles because of how this game handles landing. His mobility and other tools are too slow for how hard he gets punished. If he was seen more, you'd see his recovery also get shit on harder than it already is. He would be absolutely shit on by every decent character without grab kills since he would just have to win neutral so many more times and he frankly sucks at it. This is coming from someone who loves playing as DK.

FUCK WITCH TIME

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>>384910239
>twitch chat

>>384910335
>His tilts aren't disjointed
Almost stopped reading, you have no idea how wrong you are
>his aerials lose badly to shield
But his bair butchers airdodges
>He can't even space bair on short characters
No, dtilt instead

W I T C H E D

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WITCH TIME ABUSIN'

Salem is savage as fuck. 2 witch times in that last stock

>so close
:^)

witch time was a mistake. And this is the nerfed version.

>>384910135
samus is good tho
>bair kills at 70
>nair kills at 90
>combos
>zero to death
>charge shot

void's not gonna be able to beat salem, please do this tweek

>>384910678
>>bair kills at 70
don't exaggerate

smash 4 would be a better game without cloud and bayo

>tfw you don't want to root against tweek but you know for the better good salem needs to win

:(

>>384910678
bunch of buzz-phrases which mean nothing. samus has poor aerial mobility and if you play her patiently you can out-camp the shit out of her.

>>384910819
I'm in the same position

>>384910807
I feel like the general perception of Cloud has gotten a lot more favorable. People realize he's fun to watch and has a massive massive flaw that will only get bigger when edge-guards get more complex. Bayo on the other hand, will only get more annoying.

>>384910720
>what is rage
>what are ledges

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>>384910838
>outcamp samus

>>384910395
His arms can be grabbed and lose to swords. They aren't "true" disjoints and haven't been in any Smash game. They have reach and dtilt/utilt have good hitboxes with good hit effects, but they straight up lose to disjoints.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odp4I_UzBBE
See the blue at his elbow? That's the "disjoint." His hands up to mid-arm can be fucked at any time during that. Only his up+B has his arms fully disjointed.

>>384910819
>for the better good

why's that?

>>384910948
I'm probably a bit biased because all my friends play cloud and he's everywhere in doubles so I'm sick of seeing the fuck. Feels like everyone has a cloud and he invalidates a bunch of characters

>Zero lost to a Peach and a Bowser
>Leo never wins against Zero and lost to a has-been

are they washed?

Honestly tho, playing Salem must be frustrating as fuck. He's almost as evasive as the average Sonic main.

>>384911248
because void needs to lose

The mental fortitude of Tweek there

>>384911306
Cloud isn't broken and he has clear weaknesses, but he should be banned in doubles

>>384911430
what? why?

>>384911248
They want the ban

Without zero this top 8 sucks. I'd rather watch diddy because then i at least get to watch some fucking good neutral control.

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>>384911345
>implying peach is bad
She's just not stupid good senpai.

>>384911091
Samus' projectiles suck and she's not quick, anon.

>>384911248
Void winning a major would break the timeline

Wonder why Bayo isn't as prevalent in japan.

>>384911606
Charge shot is great, missiles are mediocre, but not useless. She's not too quick, but she's very mobile

>>384911675
charge shot is not great lol, you must play with some scrubby people.

>>384911675
>Charge shot is great
>needles clash with charge shot
>Samus
>very mobile
Stop.

>>384911590
She's not bad, and neither is Bowser, but both are low-high, high-mid tier, making Zero lose is crazy

>>384911657
9b and abadango both main her

>>384911808
Doesn't Ranai secondary her too?

>>384911786
>>needles clash with charge shot
This isn't Melee, and missiles are good in Melee. Her aerial mobility is great, and her ground speed is not bad.
>>384911765
You must not have played a good Samus-player

>>384911901
Not as far as I'm aware. I thought he was a pure villager main

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>>384911794
Maybe there's some secret sauce

Oh what I would give for peach to have her old turnip speed and melee down smash

What even happened with Salem? EE was talking earlier he went from top 30ish a year ago now he's clearly top 3 after a few months

Fucking christ, Tweek got killed 4 times in the EXACT same way.
He'd be off stage and try to grab ledge without burning his limit and Salem just s-hop baired him every time.

Congratulations to Salem for getting 1st at Super Smash Bros. for Wii U at Dreamhack Atlanta!

>>384911901
Ranai's secondary is Lucina, but that almost never happens

predictions for finals?

6-0 for salem, 3 two stocks, void storms off after he loses and bayo is banned

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>>384912074

>>384912074
He's a Brawl legend, not some random guy

>>384911561
>neutral control
>sheik

dude

>>384912074
He didn't play the game that much until Bayo came out, he was one of the best Brawl players.

>>384911995
turnip buffs would be fair but fuck you and anyone that wants that buggy fucking dsmash back
shes a far more interesting character now that she cant just bail herself out of any situation with the threat of a free 40% by hitting down on the cstick

if salem starts winning everything and taking wins over zero I wouldn't be surprised if he snapped and shot someone

>>384912074
He didn't play much until a while back, he always was a really good player though

VOIDDDDD

>>384912218
lol

lolsalemwins

Salem let him have that win, 6-1 inc.

Is Sheik the most honest character in the game since her nerfs? Maybe with Pit

>>384912402
OK ok sarcasm aside, It'd be great if the final hit had much more knockback. Still infinitely better than that sorry excuse of a down smash in brawl.

>>384912616
>honest

There's that word again

remember when /v/ used to raid smashboards and laugh at smash tourneyfags?

now redditors pretend like this child's game is competitive

sad!

>>384912595
>[Spoiler?]
lol, kill yourself
Void got this

>>384912616
No

>>384912616
Pit is the most honest because he has literally nothing going for him.

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2-0 VOID

He's going to choke, isn't he?

ONE MORE

>>384912806
it's weird because nothing about him is bad in anyway, it's just that he has nothing special at all so he's just outclassed

>counterpicking smashville against void
why

Bracket more free than civil war.

So it begins.

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DELETE BAT WITHIN

void is gona choke this lol

>>384912806
If pit is the most honest male, Who's the most honest female? Lucina?

>>384913028
>literally playing the EVO Champ
>free

(You)

Don't do this to me

>>384913117
palutena, though her upair exists

>>384913117
WFT

>>384913189
>EVO relevant in 2017
I sure love bo3

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what the fuck happened to Salem's hair

>>384913117
kirby

>>384913350
he literally made zero cry lol

Salem's gonna win this tournament
because he bat within'd out of a true combo

>>384913384
Like metaknight?

>>384913447
Bayo ban when?

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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not like this

JUST

YES YES YES YES YES

DOWNLOADED

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It's over, VoiD's too impatient now

keep it in /vg/ you fucking children.

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>That Bat Within on the Bouncing Fish in game 3

What a shitty character

>>384913812
keep it in reddit you fucking sperg

Incoming 3-0. Void is tilted.

>>384913812
Smash general died a long time ago.

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I

>>384913867
Who and why?

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Bayo: "Almost"

OH FUCK

I fucking believe

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>>384914156

>>384900686
>Literal autism Vs waifu weeb scum
They're both reddit-tier.

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>People want ANOTHER fucking Sheik to win a major.
>Bayo has only won one and she is already so broken.
lol

>>384914484
Sheik hasn't won a major since her nerfs.

>>384914484
bayo's won more than one major you Fool

>>384914484
Fuck off, Sheik is balanced now

>>384914484
What was the last major sheik won since zero dropped her?

>>384914484
>another

Losing the lead with Sheik is dangerous.

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Who am I supposed to cheer for? I hate both of them?

>>384914714
>hating void

>>384914709
Especially against Salem

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I want Salem to be #1
>>384914714
Why would anyone hate void? He works hard

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>>384914714
why the fuck would you hate void

What the fuck was that

>>384914781
The characters. Not the people

WHAT WAS THAT DOWN THROW

>>384914896
>hating post-nerf sheik

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Don't play sm4sh
Is bayo as bad as HOO HAH?

>>384914484
Those "people" hate anything that beats up their lord and savior, scarflard.

HOLY FUCK THATS IT
IM DONE

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>Top players still bitch about Bayo

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FUCK

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That bat within though...

>>384914985
bayo is much worse. diddy has to work hard for his kills now

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it can't end like this

Bats Within is really the only thing that makes Bayo unfair

>>384914985
Prepatch Bayo definitely, now she's not hoo hah level but she's still aids.

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Good god, what made Sakurai think removing edgehogging was a good idea?

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Let's go SALEM

>>384914985
it's not as comically broken no

>>384914985
No.

>>384915076
>
hahah fuck off lard, diddy is cancer

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>Remove Bat Within
>Patch triple jump glitch
>Make Witch Time duration scale with the attack it countered, no more max duration WT off jabs

I'd even let her keep all of her Witch Twist shenanigans. With these changes, she'd still play fundamentally the same, jsut be less of a Mary Sue.

>>384914985
Hell no.

Pre-patch Diddy had less lag on his grab on top of consistent combos and a better throw game.

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THIS IS ALL BAT WITHIN'S FAULT. THAT BOUNCING FISH WAS GONNA WIN IT FOR VOID

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Almost~

>Bayonetta

COMBOED

C U C K E D

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S A L E M
A
L
E
M

Now that the dust has settled, how long before Bay is banned from major tourneys?

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Incoming "Bayo is bs/broken" from the top players

>>384915421
not until it's top 4 Bayo only

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Legit bullshit. Like wow
>>384915114
You were saying?

>>384915421
5 weeks

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>>384903640

>>384915421
Fuck off, Bayo doesn't have touch of death combos like in UMvC3

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FUCKING BAYO

>>384915191
She beat their overlord Zero so they rather see ten Diddy's than one Bayo

>>384915421
Why would that happen exactly?

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this game broke me

>>384915421
MK didn't get banned, even though he actually was broken.
Why would she be?

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>>384915512
>she touches characters
>they die off the top more often than not

>salem wins sm4sh
>m2k wins melee

good day for me

>>384915657
Because she hurts sacrflard's feelings.

Man, i really wanted Void to win this...

>>384915753
Who's in Melee top 8?
If no Hbox and Armada, this will be a GOOD watch.

>>384915657
p-sure mk got banned at some point, it just didn't last long

>>384915657
MK wasn't banned because 1/3rd of all Brawl players mained MK and the Japanese players said they wouldn't come to any Major where he was banned.

>>384915817
hbox vs sfat
m2k vs plup

axe vs moon
druggedfox vs ryan ford

>>384915809
we all did except some contrarian cucks

Salem was cancer in the brawl days, and he hasn't changed a bit

>>384915798
Ah, so it is just Zero cocksuckers complaining, aight.

>>384915858
He was unbanned when japs came over and cleaned house with him.

>Void lost
DAMN. He got pretty close. Almost 3-0'd the man.

>>384915948
Well shit.
Congrats hbox on your ez win.

>>384915973
Precisely. He has an entire army of dickriders that always come to his defense the second something doesn't go his way.

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>>384915753
>>m2k wins melee
come on man. The only time he won was when I didn't watch so I'm not watching.

>>384915729
>more often than not
>salem got one up b string kill during GF

modern patch cycles coddling gamers were a mistake

can you imagine the (non)development of melee meta if fox were called to be nerfed because some players were playing better than other players

>>384916041
People are complaining about Bayo when VoiD pretty much had that, but he choked, maybe not used to being in GF?

>>384916221
When was the last time he actually won anything?

>>384916228
Same as evo's finish ironically.

>>384912616
But Ike, though.

>>384915949
t.Brawl MK main.

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>Please nerf her because ZeRo can't get good enough to win

>>384916074
sfat has beaten hbox in their last 3/5 sets and m2k has been doing a lot better against hbox overall, so I dont think its completely free.

>>384916329
Seemed like his performance was dropping halfway through. He picked it back up, but it was too late.

>>384916178
Fanboys are inherently bad.

>>384916427
I hope he does beat Hbox.
All sets after that will be so damn fun to watch.

Only redditards are mad at salem and bayo, like, characters have their gimmicks, what a surprise. It's not like Void choked an even MU.

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>>384916280
>smash 4 with un nerfed bayo, sheik, diddy, rosalina, ZZS, Luigi, Corrin

>>384916280
Patches should only buff low tiers or extremely broken characters like brawl MK

>>384916550
>all those mid-to-low tiers that would never receive buffs
Literally Melee 2.0.

>>384916548
Seriously, this.
>Make one mistake
>Get badly punished for it.
BOTH fucking characters are able to pull off this.

>>384916329
the thing is that with bayo you can play worse than your opponent the entire match and still win if you get that once good opening, whereas Sheik actually has to work for a kill. that combined with her retarded ass recovery and "hurr witch time to escape a certain kill" is what makes her so annoying to fight.

Why is it okay when fagtain zack beats people with jank and button mashing??

>>384916597
The ideal melee patch would give huge buffs to low tiers and a few tweaks to non-fox top tiers (Like making Falcon's recovery not have 10 thousand years of lag)

>>384916340
The last meaningful tournament he won was MomoCon 2017 back in May.

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>>384916550
>pre-patch Luigi

>>384916280
>Implying Melee Fox is balanced.
Shitting on the vast majority of Melee's cast while having about two even matchups doesn't make you balanced retard. All you meleefags are hypocrites because if the best character in Melee was a campy character you'd be hollering and crying for nerfs.

>>384916550
don't forget greninja

>>384916329
That bouncing fish on game 3 set 1 would have killed every other character. Bat within fundamentally makes Bayo a low risk character, never mind stuff like an ungimpable recovery and that she doesn't have any sort of freefall

>>384916420
Those replies tho.

>>384916661
I weep for vanilla ike, dorf, zelda, marcina, mewtwo, DK, samus mains

>>384916878
They nerfed the frog so fast that it's hard for me to remember how borked he really was aside from hydro pump.

>>384916713
Because he only beats mid tier players, Salem's bad because he can actually win majors

>>384916713
because he slays

>>384916682
You have to work less hard to win neutral as sheik, while you have to choose brainlet options as bayonetta as an attempt to catch your opponent.

>>384916597
This anon gets it. If there is a port of Smash 4 to Switch, it better include buffs for all the mid-to-low tiers.

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>>384916420
>tfw I'd rather they buff Link and other characters

>>384916927
Ike's still not even that good. He could really use some tweaks.

Why the fuck does Cloud's Dair stay out for 15 seconds but Ike's last two frames?

>>384917248
It'd be neat if companies looked at tier lists made by the community to see who needs to be buffed.
Don't know if other companies does that but they really should.

>>384917362
Cloud's DLC.

No seriously, why is Bayo's back air stronger, has more range, AND faster than most uncharged smashes

So let me get this straight. Bayo has the ability to absorb hits at random with no penalty, meaning that she can escape true combos through pure luck. It's like tripping all over again

>>384916550
You forgot Sonic with his infamous backdrop.

>>384917426
No seriously, why is Fox's back air stronger, has more range, AND faster than most uncharged smashes

S M E L L Y
M
E
L
L
Y

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>no leffen

>>384917362
Vanilla 4 ike was outright inferior to brawl ike somehow
>>384917416
Most of the DLC not named lucas and roy runs circles around most of the regulars. They should really fix that.

Love d1

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>>384917660
>no leffen

Did Leffen and Mango not attend because this is being sponsored by Monster?

>>384917587
Her bair is better than foxes and she has multiple jumps, better air speed and lower gravity to really abuse it.

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>>384917660
>no leffen